Healing Through Dance After Injury And Loss- With Jaimie Goodwin

In this episode, I’m joined by Jaimie Goodwin — professional dancer, mentor, movement coach, and So You Think You Can Dance alum — for a conversation about dance, mindset, injury recovery, authenticity, teaching and navigating the realities of a creative life.

Jaimie shares her journey from competitive dance to major opportunities in the entertainment industry, including the audition story that changed everything simply because she chose to show up. We talk about perfectionism, comparison, flow state, performance anxiety, and the inner dialogue that can either support dancers or hold them back.

She also opens up about multiple ACL tears, grief, recovery, and the mindset shifts that helped her reconnect to her body, purpose, and presence. We discuss working with dancers, injury prevention, cross-training, and why doing the “opposite” of what dance demands can help restore balance and longevity.

We also dive into motherhood, mentorship, rebuilding during transitional seasons of life, and the reminder that the present moment is shaping the future we’re creating.

If you’re a dance teacher, dancer, performer, creative, or anyone learning to trust themselves more deeply, this episode will leave you feeling grounded, encouraged, and inspired to keep showing up.

Learn more about Jaimie's offerings for dancers on her website here: 

www.jaimielmgoodwin.com

Join the dancers portal here- the level 1 membership free for a limited time!

https://www.skool.com/the-holistic-dancer-2824/about?ref=5c916147210740c78ec7c038b089259d

Keep up with Jaimie and The Dancer's Portal on Instagram here:

@jaimiegoodwin 

@thedancersportal

Thank you so much for being here! If you are enjoying the show, it would mean so much if you please follow Essence Embodied, share it with someone who needs it, and leave a rating and review! Thank you!

You can keep up with Tyne on instagram here:

https://www.instagram.com/tynestecklein?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ%3D%3D&utm_source=qr 

View her website here:

https://tynesteckleinartdesigns.com/

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I'd like to say a massive thank you to my editor and dear friend, Nikki Dalonzo, for supporting me on this journey! 

Transcript

Welcome And Meet Jamie

Tyne Stecklein 0:00

Welcome back to Essence Embodied by Tyne Stecklein. I have an incredible guest episode for you today with my friend Jaimie Goodwin. Jaimie and I have worked together as dancers in the entertainment industry on multiple projects, and this conversation is going to offer you so much knowledge about dance, about wellness, and about life. This is one of the most heartfelt conversations I've had on the show, and I'm honored to share it with you to give you a little more info about Jaimie. Jaimie is a performer, choreographer, mentor, and co-founder of Relative Motion, a revolutionary dance technique training program. She can be recognized from So You Think You Can Dance, both as a contestant and as an all-star. She has appeared in many commercials, movies, TV shows, Rock of Ages, High School Musical 3, Mad Men, to name a few. She has also done almost every award show you could imagine the Emmys, the Academy Awards, the Billboard Music Awards, the American Music Awards. She has danced with a number of incredible artists, including Jennifer Lopez, Carrie Underwood, Katie Perry, Taylor Swift, Kylie Minogue, and Miley Cyrus. In addition, she has worked as an associate choreographer on some incredible projects, and she has had the opportunity to perform in companies. She has also enjoyed touring the world, performing with Shaping Sound Dance Company, and Bad Boys of Dance. Jaimie now loves to teach and mentor dancers, and she travels all over the world teaching on convention at studios and at universities. She has overcome several severe injuries that have led her to become an advocate for sharing her knowledge of injury prevention and wellness with dancers everywhere. I'm so excited to have her join us. Let's dive in.

Jaimie Goodwin 1:47

Hi. Hi. I'm gonna like cry already. We've been like two seconds in. Thank you for being here today. It's really special. Thank you for having me.

Tyne Stecklein 1:55

So, Jamie, okay, this show for me has just been, you know, wanting to help inspire people to own their authenticity and their their unique essence. And when I think of you and your essence, I just think of so much love and so much light and laughter. And so I'm just really honored to have you because just what a beautiful example of someone's essence.

Jaimie Goodwin 2:19

Thank you, Tyne. The first time we were on set together, I thought like, oh wow, I'm on set with Tyne's deckline. Like you had you were someone I admired so much. So I just wanted you to know that.

Tyne Stecklein 2:30

That means a lot to me. And it goes both ways. You know, I for our listeners, we grew up in a very similar way of doing the competition convention thing and wanting to pursue this at a really young age. And then yeah, getting to be, you know, I think we were we were competing against against one another for title at nationals and things like that. And then both pursuing the path and then getting to be together on professional jobs. It's like, yeah, I felt the same thing, like, oh my gosh, Jamie, like Jamie's up for this or Jamie gets this, and I get to spend time with her and I get to learn from her. That was my favorite thing about convention, by the way, was getting to be inspired by dancers that I did not train with. And you were one of those like strong ones in my mind from especially, I think, you know, like junior or senior year of high school, New York City Dance Alliance.

Jaimie Goodwin 3:22

Yeah, where I just had such like I just admired you so much. Thank you. We know many people in the industry at this point, and I love and respect so many people and artists that we know. But you and I have lived very similar pathways as far as what our beliefs are and how we go about life. And so I think that's pretty special too, that we get to reconnect in motherhood and like the same POV in a way.

When Dance Becomes A Calling

Tyne Stecklein 3:49

Totally. I want to kind of start with for you like when did you know, like at what point did you know you wanted to be a dancer or pursue the arts for your pathway? And was that like the were you the first in your family to kind of walk that path?

Jaimie Goodwin 4:04

Um, my mom was a dancer back in the day, her day. Like I have tutus of my mother's, they're antique little three, four-year-old tutus. So I think it's always been in our blood. My sister's six and a half years older. She was also a dancer, and so she really inspired me. Um, obviously, if I'm, you know, six years away from her, I'm seeing her do all these amazing things with dance, and I'm like, oh, I want to do that. And I was lucky enough to have a mom who was like, if you love it, we'll do it. And so she put me into dance, and I I don't think I knew at that point, although my mother says that I was watching every ballet and trying to do everything. So I think there was instincts there. Also, like I tried to quit when I was 12 to become a basketball player because my best friend played basketball. Then my mom kind of talked me out of it in a healthy way. She was like, okay, well, you know, let's think about that for a little bit if you still feel that way at the end of the season because we're not dropping a commitment. That didn't last, you know, thankfully. But I would say definitely 15, 13 to 15 is when I felt like I was really stepping into the knowing of like, I don't think I can live without this.

Tyne Stecklein 5:16

And then I guess I because I know the things you've done, and I read your

First Big Break And Audition Grit

Tyne Stecklein 5:20

bio for our listeners, which is incredible and just makes listeners, especially our dancers on their pathway, just so inspired. I guess I don't know. What was kind of your first step into the business or the entertainment industry?

Jaimie Goodwin 5:32

I think it was non-conventional, I guess. Such a blessing because Tys Diorio, who we both know and have worked for many times, what it was Codance, I believe, that he was teaching for. And we went and danced at Codance. We did the convention weekend, and he was friends with my dance teacher, Denise Wall, who's like a mother to me. And so he called her afterwards and was like, I know Jamie's getting ready to graduate. I have a McDonald's commercial coming up. Does she want to come to New York and audition for it? And that's why I also tell my students all the time, like, don't ever think that someone's not watching you and thinking of you for an opportunity. Don't think because you're in convention and it's just convention that like they're not gonna remember you.

Tyne Stecklein 6:13

Totally.

Jaimie Goodwin 6:14

And so that was my first door in. And Denise was, she's been an angel to me so many times, but she was like, Yeah, let's get in the car, let's drive up to New York, let's go to this audition. And I was next to like dancers from SAB all over New York City. But then there were a couple young dancers like me that Tys also invited. And um, I ended up booking that audition and did McDonald's commercial, and I was in awe of everybody that I was near. I didn't think I was deserving of that at that point in time, right? Because I'm like, I'm just a kid. And then the next day, I found out so you think you can dance auditions were in New York at the same time, but I had missed the first day. And so Denise was like, Go go to callbacks. Really? Yeah, be first in line at callbacks and just see if they'll see you. I don't know that. Danny Tidwell and Teddy Forrens. And we were sitting at a diner next to where like the doors would be opening at 3 a.m. And we were determined to be like the very first people there because they hadn't auditioned yet either, but they were like, we're gonna do it too.

Tyne Stecklein 7:15

Okay, great.

Jaimie Goodwin 7:15

Yeah, so the three of us, we were sitting at a diner waiting to see those doors. Like, okay, people are starting to accumulate by the doors. Let's go like jump in. So we were, we were like first or second in line, like we were right up there in the front, and Jeff Thacker sees us, and we explained to him we weren't here yesterday, but we really want to audition. And I was on a job yesterday, so that's why I couldn't come today. I would really love to be seen. And so he was like, Okay, well, if you wait through the day and we have time to see you at the end of the day, then you can audition. And you know how long those days are. Sure, yeah. So he very quickly kind of like made us do that quick audition round because there was a second round of improv right in the beginning. So he was weeding more people out through the improv and he was like, Hey, you guys, come do this rounds. We just literally jumped out of an elevator, like straight into dancing, no warm up, nothing, like straight from the street into just jump in here, let me see you dance real quick. Right.

Tyne Stecklein 8:11

And you're what age at this time? Are you even 18? Just turned 18. Just turned 18. Okay.

Jaimie Goodwin 8:16

So yeah, fresh, fresh into the market. Yeah, I remember just being like thrown into the fire pit. And Jeff Thackers, now that I know him, love I love him, and he's like a father to so many of us. Like that's the energy he gives. But at that point in time, and when you first meet him, he is very like boom, bam, this is how it is. Thank you, no. Like the Simon of you know, he's just gonna tell you how it is and no, thank you, but and so it was very intimidating. I remember that. Really kind of blacked out for that whole first part. But then after we made it through that, we waited until 11 p.m. I mean, it was like we started at 6 a.m., we waited till 11, watched all of the solos, and we were some of the last people in the theater. And then they were like, Okay, I think we have time to see you.

Tyne Stecklein 9:01

Like 18 hours later, after you got to the Denny's. Yeah.

Jaimie Goodwin 9:05

Imagine like how tired we all are at this point, right? Just waiting. I'd rather be dancing for 18 hours than waiting.

Tyne Stecklein 9:10

Totally than sitting. Yeah.

Jaimie Goodwin 9:12

Yes. And so we just like Teddy, Danny and I all got up. We did our solos, we all got tickets to Vegas, and then Danny and I were on the same season together. Teddy wasn't able to do it because he was assisting me and Michaels at the time. So it's like fair trade-off, right? So it was like one life-changing weekend that I just was like, let's go for it. And I had the right support.

Tyne Stecklein 9:31

I love that. And I didn't know that you, I didn't know that story. And I think it's just so great because it's really easy if you miss the first of anything, and especially if you're a person who's like a rule follower, which I think we both are. Usually, yes. Usually to fair, yeah. But to be like, oh, there's no way I could just go to the callback. But like, why couldn't you? The worst they can say is no. Yeah. The worst they could say is no. And instead they said, Yeah, maybe, which turned into yes, which turned into a life change, like a massive opportunity.

Jaimie Goodwin 10:00

Absolutely. I mean, I think about that now with so many of my like dancers, or even like just people in my life, and I'm like, you know, the coolest things happen to the people that jump. It's like the scariest time to be like, I'm not really sure, you know, but I'm gonna make the drive. Oh, I'm gonna show up. I do think I had way more balls back then than I even do now. Because now I don't feel the same. Yes.

Tyne Stecklein 10:20

Yes, it's harder. I think it you you because you get more like sense about you, and you're like, I can't do that. Like I could never, but yes, I agree. I think I was my ego maybe was more inflated or something at 18. I don't know, but I was much bolder at that point.

Jaimie Goodwin 10:34

I had less to lose too, you know, at 18. And I lost my mom at 16 and a half, almost 17. And I remember the moment that I was like, I have to figure this out. Like, I have to figure out how to like do this because my dad was like such a loving father, but definitely at the time where it's like, what are you gonna do with dance? You know, and there are still so many parents that feel that way. Like, how are you gonna make money with dance? Like, find a real job. So my dad was kind of feeding that side where my mom was like, No, there are things she can do. Like, come on, like, she's following her dreams, like pulling me in that direction. So when I lost her, I was like, I have to figure this out on my own, and I might not have what I had before. As far as the support, yes, yes. Luckily, Denise was like always such an angel to me, like I said, and stepped in as a mother for me for many, many years, even before my mom passed. But I'm grateful for that, and just like the awareness of like not everybody has that. Sometimes it's like, okay, I have nothing to lose, so why not do it? And I think I was very much in that space.

Tyne Stecklein 11:35

Yeah.

Jaimie Goodwin 11:35

Now I'm like, oh, if I do this wrong, I'm like my house and my family and like all these things, you know, like you have these real life weights upon you. Fakes, yeah. We were also very much taught if you look a certain way, you'll never be booked again. If you cross this line, no one's gonna want to like hire you. Like, don't do that. That's not the right etiquette. And like there is an etiquette, and I believe I'm very much a big promoter of like have etiquette, like know the industry. In that moment, I think that I didn't really know any better. Whereas now I'd be like, oh, I'm not gonna talk to that producer that way. I'm not gonna say that thing because I know he's a part of this and I don't want this to get around or like them to misread me or whatever.

Tyne Stecklein 12:16

Yeah.

Jaimie Goodwin 12:17

So much overthinking where I didn't have that. Yes. Okay.

Tyne Stecklein 12:20

Exactly. Do you? I want to circle back to your mom a little bit because I remember, you know, you sharing a bit about her with me when we worked together. Did you feel like did you continue through your career to just feel that support, you know, even though she wasn't

Loss, Grief, And Spiritual Support

Tyne Stecklein 12:35

here physically? Yeah, like anything about that that you want to share?

Jaimie Goodwin 12:38

I'll probably cry, but it's not because I don't know I don't want this to sound insensitive because I'm very sensitive to loss. I've experienced so much of it. I felt closer to her after she passed, as far as being like a leader and a guide, and like feeling close in the way that I was like, I know by the knowing now of how much she loves me and like that she's here with me no matter where I go. Whereas, like when she was in the physical world, it was always like there was this separation, right? And you'd feel separate from that person. You're like, I'm always trying to get back to that person. I was always worried about her. And she battled cancer for a long time. So it was always this feeling of like, I don't know when the last time I'll see her is. I'm always fighting to like get more time with her. And I never regret any moments that I did that. But when she passed, I was like, she is free, and I still feel her. And I feel that her energy and her spirit is so much stronger outside of human form that it's like covering me. And um, I still feel that. You know, there's been moments in my life where I dropped out of it and felt disconnected, but I can like call on her and I still feel her all the time.

Tyne Stecklein 13:45

That like it gave me goosebumps. That's um thank you for sharing because I think it's such a good reminder of we always have the ability, whether it be someone that we've lost or if you're spiritual or whatever you believe, if you believe in a certain faith, like of connecting, connecting deeply when we want to. And sometimes like there's the highs and the lows, but being able to just go within and and connect and have that be a guide, like you said. Yeah. The fact that you feel that presence, like, oh, that's just so beautiful. And I hope I hope anyone who's experienced loss listening, you know, can really take that to heart as well.

Jaimie Goodwin 14:26

Yeah, and I love what you said too about like, I mean, it just felt like all-encompassing because that person doesn't have to be lost, you know, they had don't have to be passed away for you to still send them that energy and connect with them. Yeah, like maybe it's in a strange relationship, but like you can still send them love, you can still connect with them in that way. Yeah, thinking about, you know, the loss aspect. I don't consider myself religious, but I definitely consider myself spiritual. And I feel like there's something just so much bigger than me. When I think of loss, when it comes to someone close to me, and it's like there's a gap in my life, it's also something that I get to kind of step into spiritually, if that makes sense. Like I'm like, okay, I feel that, and now I get to like meditate on it. I get to expand my heart more, I get to reach out, I get to like, you know, it's never gonna feel that same way physically, but there's so many times that I've been like, okay, I feel like more full as a human being after understanding that loss.

Tyne Stecklein 15:26

Yeah.

Jaimie Goodwin 15:26

For instance, my mom like wish every day that she was here, but I learned so many lessons from her loss. And I also know that people experience loss different ways, and even people close to me experienced it differently and made choices after the loss that sent them down a totally different path and have very big struggles in their life. From that point on, they've been struggling, yeah, you know. And so I say that because feeling of like, okay, I'm gonna make this loss into an expansion of myself instead of like lose myself in this too, you know. That's huge. And so I think that's been a tool I've been trying to use every time I experience loss. Cause of course it's like every time it's like a gut punch, right?

Tyne Stecklein 16:05

Yeah.

Jaimie Goodwin 16:05

And okay, well, this has happened. So what am I gonna do with it?

Tyne Stecklein 16:09

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, Jamie, that's that's massive. I had a mentor who I shared an episode on the podcast, he's no longer with us, but I had recorded this episode before he passed, Dr. Mark Holmes. And one of the things he would talk about is a lot of people say everything happens for a reason, but his concept was no, everything happens for our benefit. And I loved that. But then when he passed away, it was hard for me to wrap my brain around that. Like, because even for me, it was a really big loss. And I was like, how is this for my benefit to not have this person? But as you said, it's like the things that he taught me in his time that he was here, and then even the things that truly almost on the daily, I'm able to realize in a different way from him and his love and his lessons. It's just been like such a gift. Not that I, you know, I would choose to have had more time with him in the physical, but also I think, yeah, it's such, as you said, it's happened. Like we can't change that. And I talk a lot about on the show external circumstances, whether it be the most massive thing like this, the loss of someone or someone doesn't notice you on a convention weekend, getting a scholarship, but like an external thing that we don't have control over. But then how we choose to wrap our mind around that and move forward takes us down a really beautiful pathway of extreme knowledge growth, learning, or a lot of turbulence. Yeah.

Jaimie Goodwin 17:36

Absolutely. And I feel like that's just like how a lesson for literally everything you can apply that to every struggle you have. Yeah. Where it's like, okay, well, here's the struggle. What are you gonna do with it? You know? Yeah. And I do believe that there are things that happen to us that are external and brought to us for certain reasons in our timeline that we are meant to navigate and that we can't control. But I also believe I have control over so much of my life that when these things happen, like I remember as a young girl, thanks to my mom, she was such a spiritually aware person. But I remember as a young girl thinking, like, how do I apply her death in a way that like this doesn't go wasted? But it could happen in like anything, right? So, how do I apply this challenge in a way that this doesn't go wasted? I could either just literally sit here in the middle of this and be like, this sucks, this sucks, this sucks. And believe me, I do that some days. Some days I just need to be like, this sucks. Yeah. If I stay there too long, I'm wasting this time where the universe has clearly either brought me this or I have manifested this because it's something in my being that like needs this lesson, this message, whatever it is. I fully believe that I chose this life before I got here. And some of the things I wish I didn't choose now that I'm here, right? But every single challenge, I try to, and I'm definitely not perfect at it, but I try to snap myself out of this like grief that it's happening and be like, okay, well, this is what it is, whether it's external or internal. And I also try to figure that out because if it's internal, something inside me needs to change. Whatever this is, if I can drop into it and surrender to it and just kind of like allow myself to move through it and listen to my intuition and try not to overthink it. Try to still find the joy in the moments and like be grateful for the things that are working out for me. Then like I think that I accept the lesson faster. I move through it faster. The universe brings me what I want faster. The moments that I'm just like, I hate this, I hate this, and it goes on forever. And I'm resisting and I'm resisting. And I'm just like, I'm so upset in the space that I am in that I can't even begin to get myself out of it.

Tyne Stecklein 19:57

Yeah, exactly.

Jaimie Goodwin 19:58

And then the universe is like, why would you?

Tyne Stecklein 20:02

Yeah. Why would I assist you in getting out of it?

Jaimie Goodwin 20:05

Yeah. And like, yeah, exactly. Like, literally, I hear it sometimes being like, right now, you don't deserve that. You know, meet, I will meet you where you are.

Tyne Stecklein 20:14

Yeah. I I wish I could have learned any of this at 18. Yeah. It took, I was, I was 30, 30s when I started like applying these things. I think you probably were younger because you had the experience you did with your mom. This stuff is it's massive, it's profound. It's not going to happen overnight. It's a daily practice. But if you can hear this, if you can hear the things that you're saying, that Jamie is saying right now and start applying it in the slightest way on the daily, it for me, it's been life-changing in how I accept and move through and enjoy and love my life.

Jaimie Goodwin 20:47

There is so much science behind how our brain is wired to create this circumstance that you and I

The Book That Reframed Everything

Jaimie Goodwin 20:55

are talking about and how much control we have over changing it. Oh, when I actually brought this book with me because I wanted to share it if it came up naturally and I feel like it is coming up naturally. It's called The Unthered Soul. It has that this is the turning point for me. I can literally look at my life and be like, okay, I was living these things by example through my mom and through experiences, just being in survival mode and figuring it out. But when I read this book, I was like, how did this person put into words and expand upon the true power that we have as human beings and like the true responsibility that we have? And it's just so clearly written and so simply written that, like, if I try to regurgitate it, it won't ever come out as gracefully. But for me, I read that and I was like, okay, not only is that a new, it's not a new perspective, it was, it was kind of like a light shift that I a light switch that I was like, oh, I see life totally differently now. But there were things inside the book that I was like, I know that I've been in that space of awareness so many times before, but I didn't know how I got there and I didn't know why I fell out of it. And whenever I Was in that space of pure presence, pure awareness, like allowing things to flow through me, but realizing the power they have so that I can like not stay there. When I like realized what that actually was and read the words that this person was saying, I was like, wow, okay. It's basically like flow state, right? Or like tapping into spirit or like channeling, like, you know, not in like a woo-woo way, but like I feel a message, I'm dancing a message. Like, and that's what I realized. I was like, that's why I love to dance. Like that is exactly why I need this. Because when I'm dancing, I'm in like the most flow, the most presence, the most connected to spirit. Everything is blank inside my mind. Every worry is gone. I'm just so happy and so alive. And then, like, to realize what that is exactly and how that's you connecting to your higher self, and that's you connecting to your spirit and you becoming the observer, yeah, of like everything so you can enjoy it instead of getting some submerged in it and stressing out about what's gonna happen. And like when I saw that whole thing uh written out in that book, I was like, Wow, that's what I'm looking for every time I dance. And people can do this in everyday life, people live this way, yeah, yeah. And that's I think when I was like, I need to live this way.

Tyne Stecklein 23:20

Yeah. When when did you read this? Do you remember?

Jaimie Goodwin 23:23

Like how old 2015. I remember exactly where I was, why I read it. It was my third ACL tear, had a year and a half recovery, and halfway through, I started to really slip into a dark space. I was becoming really unmotivated, really depressed. My physical therapist at the time, um, Dr. Kutri, he's amazing, you know, sugar foot therapy, Katie. And um, they care, like, right? They care about you past just being a patient. So he saw that I was just like, my energy was changing. And he was like, it's very common in long recoveries for athletes to feel this because you have nowhere to put your energy, nowhere to get into that flow state, like nowhere to like connect. You're just moving through everyday life. And you need to change your environment, you need to take a break from PT, you need to go do something in nature. Got in my car the next morning, I drove up the PCH, never done anything like that before by myself, stopped wherever I wanted to stop, sat by the ocean, like did anything I wanted to do for like four or five days. And that's when I found the book. And I sat in like Morro Bay on a balcony overlooking the water, read the entire book in two days. I remember exactly where I was when that shifted. And I went home and was just like, okay, I think if I see life this way, I can get through this. And also, it's like not something I'm good at. I am, but I'm not. Like, it is such a practice that almost every time life starts to change, and I don't, in a way, I don't want it to. And it takes me a second to be like, okay, hold on, hold on. No, no, no, no. Look like be the observer. What is actually happening? Because if you're watching yourself and the way you're responding and the how you're feeling from a different perspective from a third party, you would be like, that's not the version of me I really want to be. That's not actually how I need to feel.

Tyne Stecklein 25:13

Yeah.

Jaimie Goodwin 25:14

But because I'm so inside it, I can't get out.

Tyne Stecklein 25:17

That's all of us. You know, we're such creatures of habit. So, and especially when things are good and we're in a good place and then something shifts, or something like an ACL tear, that's not the first time. Like, that's that's a massive thing to then have to wrap your brain around how you can view it from almost a place of acceptance or or again, what can I learn? But you you just said so many good things that I I kind of want to break down. When you were talking about dance, like I feel the same way. And yet I think again, it took me until kind of recently in life to even realize the gift that dance has been for me in that meditative flow, spiritually connected way. And we were this way. We wanted to do this with our life, and we did, and then we did it professionally, where you are required to be, I don't want to say perfect, but but close, you know. I mean, the counts of the steps, the moment you're on camera, the shot, you're where you are. Like it it becomes in the same way I think for a competition dancer that you need to hit everything you need to hit when you're part of a team competing at a high level, it can strip away that element of it, of the art that it is, of the therapy that it is. And I think it's such a good reminder, no matter where you are with your art, be it dance or something else, no matter what age, where you are in the pathway, because the benefits that it has for us when we can remove and detach from needing to be a certain thing, but just scoping out and being like, oh, I can just, I can, I can get out of here, drop into here, connect into my body, hear the music. How does it make me feel? What does it make me want to express? Allow the emotions of this thing that's happening to come through. Like it's a completely different way of moving than

Flow State And Why Dance Heals

Tyne Stecklein 27:00

trying to get what the choreographer wants and deliver something specific for them. They're two totally different things.

Jaimie Goodwin 27:10

Cause I feel them so often. And like, you know, I don't like have these deep conversations about this specific thing so much. But to hear you talk about that is like, yes, because it ends up being, I think the responsibility goes both ways, right? Because it's like we are trying to clean our dances, we're trying to make them look really good and whatever. And like, yes, that's important. Okay, we're in competitive dance, but like when it strips away the artistry, the heart, the freedom of dance, the why behind why we did it in the first place, then all of a sudden we become like completely numb to what we're doing. Then these dancers have blocks, like they feel like they can't get their lug up leg up because they're not flexible enough. They feel like they are never gonna win first place because they just like can't connect, like they can't do it, right? They have these like mental blocks, these ideas about their body, this shame for not being able to look like so-and-so on Instagram or TikTok, like all these things that weigh them down. And like we had things like that too, but we ours weren't online in public and like in our face all the time. But I just feel like it's a cycle because as soon as we clean them up to look perfect, now it's like, okay, well, I'm trying to be perfect so much that I'm unwilling to try anything really authentically new. I'm really unwilling to just breathe through my body so it can actually do what it's meant to do. Yeah, I'm gripping through everything I do. So, like, the problem is not that I can't get my leg up and hold it, the problem is that my body is scared to move because I'm scared to be wrong. And I find that with like so many dancers I work with one-on-one, that I'm like, as soon as they feel safe in the space, their growth is like almost overnight. Like, it's literally like within 45 minutes, they're just like, I didn't know I could do that. And I'm like, that's not anything I did. That's literally just you finally trusting yourself and just finally hearing that you are able to do that. Yeah. And not that their teachers aren't saying that, but of course they hear this, but then they also hear their note, then they also hear their critiques, then they have these subliminal messages that are happening because they're little meaning-making machines and they're not speaking up about how they're feeling in class, they're just making a meaning of what was said. That kind of hurts too, right? Because teachers were human as well. I've talked about this before my classes, and it's like we all want the best for our kids, but everyone registers things differently. So if you say one thing and there's a hundred kids in class, not everyone is gonna register it the same. And so then someone might be like, Well, that she made me feel bad about myself because she said that I I'm not doing it if I'm not doing X, Y, and Z. Right now, they that kid doesn't want to try. And so I just find that like as soon as they're like, Oh, I can try, I can fail, and we're still gonna be okay.

Tyne Stecklein 29:57

Yeah. And then they're just like And actually, we're gonna blossom like from the I wouldn't even call it failures, but the the effort, yeah, that maybe doesn't go the way you want it to, but the consistent effort and the showing up and the allowing yourself to be vulnerable and be on display and want to be seen and not care what happens.

Jaimie Goodwin 30:18

No, I mean, think about how many classes we've been in, both convention or like even on set auditions, right? Where literally like everyone in the room is going balls to the wall, hearts out, sweat is flying. And you know, we also didn't have the pressure of cameras and like who was gonna be this or that elite dancer, you know, it was a little bit more grounded in that space, yeah. Back then, yeah. So I do feel the pressure that they have that we did it. But I will say that, like, you know, you still see it in audition spaces today where when you get a group of professional dancers in and everyone is there because they love it. Love it.

Tyne Stecklein 30:55

Yeah.

Jaimie Goodwin 30:56

It is like the freedom in the room is so inspiring.

Tyne Stecklein 31:00

And I'm really trying to bring that more into my classes of like, can we just elevate the energy in here? Can we just bring love into this space? Can we just let this be an hour that's like you walk away, like, I don't even know what this tingling going through my body is, but it's amazing because that's that's what it should be. And if Jancers, if you can look at it as like, yeah, of course, you have to train and you have to be disciplined. And there are those spaces like competing on stage where you need to check certain boxes, but that is not what class to me is on a convention setting, and especially in the studio that is your comfort and your safety zone, that is where you get to explore and you get to really do anything, do anything creatively that you want to try. But you you said something, Jamie. You said, you know, when they feel safe. And I think that's such a big part of it. Like it's all so connected mind, body, heart. And so when we don't feel safe, it's drastically going to affect the body. And this is like my work with Dr. Mark. He was a doctor, and I'm like, I know I'm not going to be a doctor, but I want to study with you. Because I'm like, how do I help dancers unlock the things physically that I know that they are capable of? But there's a there's a blockage up. And it is, it's because we don't feel safe. So, as much as again, like 10 years ago, I would be like shocked at myself having this conversation, but those simple things like reminding yourself before you're going into a new class or a convention class, how safe you are and how loved you are and how worthy you are of being there, reminding yourself during the class, giving yourself any of those, any of your own personal things to help boost so that you can just at least tap back into that when you're like, I don't know the last four-eight counts that we just learned, but it doesn't matter. Like what, like at the end of the day, what does it matter?

Jaimie Goodwin 32:46

Yeah, you know how much I love dance, but so many times I will look at my kids and be like, this is just dance. It's just dance, it's just dance.

Tyne Stecklein 32:54

Yeah, yeah. It's so not that deep. Like, and it can be in the most beautiful way, but we're not like we're not saving a life on an operating table.

Jaimie Goodwin 33:04

Well, and I mean that with the most respect to what we do because it's of course you don't do move people, and there's been so many times when like dance has saved lives, you know, and changed. Yes, it gets super deep, but yeah, like you're saying, when there's that block, how do we even get to that place? We can't get to that place of sharing and connecting and moving and changing anything if we ourselves are like, oh no, oh no, oh no, right? And it's just like that's what our nervous system is doing, and that's what our thoughts are doing with my kids. I'm like, okay, what do you feel right now? You know, if I notice them sensing up or they're doing something over and over again, they can't get past it, they can't like register the note. We've tried it in a million different ways and nothing's like clicking for them. I'll be like, you know, what are you feeling? And for dancers that are newer to me, sometimes that's like a like I don't even know what to say to that, you know. Um, and so I'll workshop with dancers and say, okay, like just do it for me. Don't think about it. I'm gonna turn on some music, just do what we're doing. Like it might be a technical drill, might be a short combo. Just start to be aware of what you're thinking. And I'm just gonna ask you, like, tell me a thought you noticed, you know? And it's amazing to see that, like for so many of them, it's not really that they're making like the wrong choice in their thoughts. It's that they're not aware that they're making a choice at all. And so, you know, they might be just going through the movement and wondering why it's not working. They're just thinking about what their teacher said and lifting their pause higher, wondering why the turn is not working. And it's like, okay, well, what are you actually thinking when you start to fall out of that? Because I almost 99% of the time we get down to the fact that they're not thinking something productive. They're thinking, oh crap, oh crap, oh crap, oh my God, I'm gonna mess this up, or like, I can't do it, I can't do it, or lift the posse, but as soon as that doesn't work, oh no, oh no, it didn't work. It did like it's a downward spiral of cants and kind of negative thoughts that their body is now being like, I'm not safe. And so that just that cycle like continues until we're like, okay, that thought is not working for you. We're not gonna label it good or bad. That thought does not work for you. What's a different thought we can think that gives us the same result? So it's cool just to kind of like go through that thought process with them because we don't always have a chance as teachers in in group settings to do that. But I know you as a teacher and me, we're like sitting there wanting to say so much more than we have time for. Yes. And like when you see those light bulbs go off, I'm like, I just want to stay with you 30 more minutes. Yeah. You know? And so I just like I live for those moments in class where you figure out, like, okay, and it's not like anything we're saying or doing, it's just the moment that they open up. Totally.

Tyne Stecklein 35:51

And I think in those moments, like there's huge growth, you know, whether we have another minute or or never work with that particular dancer again. That in itself is going to take it to a new level. And I think, you know, even when you were talking about you, you went, you drove down the PCH and you did whatever you wanted for a couple days, even things like that, because sometimes I'm like, yeah, we're so in our head and we're thinking, well, I'm just gonna fall out of it because I always fell out of the turn. How did you feel like like just picture a time when you just felt at peace or at ease or really happy? Like, even I've even started using that, which is a totally sideways way of you know bringing in an emotion. But can you just think that thought before you try and just see how it affects it? Which we're probably not gonna do that when we're on stage, you know, but like when we're in a technique private or we're in a class, just putting our mind in a different place, it's so easy to do.

Jaimie Goodwin 36:46

And girl, I'm probably gonna steal that technique from you because I'm such genius to get their mind just like out of it for a second. Yeah. If you do try it, tend to generate a new feeling. I will, I will definitely try it. But yeah, just like I'm I'm loving what you just said because that really is the key to generate a new feeling inside your body.

Tyne Stecklein 37:08

We want to be able to generate the emotions that we want to express when we're performing. Yes.

Jaimie Goodwin 37:14

Thank you. Yes, like any, and I think that um as soon as dancers realize that power over their energy, like they can they can send it, they can move it, they can show their audience where they want their audience to look. Yes, like they are the storyteller, you know, you're not just on stage, you are on stage, and if you are there present and you're there open, you're going to bring people into you and they're gonna want to watch. The judgment goes away from your from audience perspective when they feel connected to you. When you feel love for someone, you're not sitting there like that foot. Oh my god, I've I've seen jumps higher than that. You know, totally when you feel love for someone and you feel connected

Safety, Mindset, And Performance Blocks

Jaimie Goodwin 38:00

to them, you are just there with them.

Tyne Stecklein 38:02

You're part of the experience, yeah.

Jaimie Goodwin 38:05

Which is I think also I want to go back on what that you said this like about studio and stage. It's like dancers, you know, I struggle sometimes to get them to want to just perform in rehearsal or like when we're learning something, or even just perform their technique, you know, we're going through like something that feels technical to them, and all of a sudden it's like we are all perfect robots and we're doing it perfect. And I'm like, okay, like I can't even express to you how much more you're gonna get out of this if you stop doing it as if it's a drill and you start dancing it, and you dance everything you do from the ballet bar to your conditioning class to this, and it's like you start to genuinely feel enjoyment. Like, I'm enjoying this, it burns, it sucks, I'm getting better. This is worth it. I'm enjoying this. This is the work, and like when you become happy about it, then you're like, okay, I've now tapped into another element of freedom and power and strength and stamina because I'm not sitting here talking down to myself.

Tyne Stecklein 39:12

Yeah, I can empower myself because you're you're gonna the thing is you're gonna do it anyway. You're gonna have to do this set of whatever, especially if we're talking about strengthening. So don't you want it to feel better and feel productive and feel empowered?

Jaimie Goodwin 39:27

And then with that, it's like if you dance that way and you're rehearsing that way, then when you get on stage, you actually literally have no thought. You should not have to be thinking. Yes, that's I think that's huge.

Tyne Stecklein 39:39

Yeah, those are like my favorite moments of performance because it's basically a meditation, it's a super deep meditation, and you walk away and you're like, I have no idea what I just did, and it doesn't matter if it's so good. The not knowing felt so good, but I think we watch ourselves like so much. We watch what we're doing in our mind and we're critiquing, we're self-critiquing as we're going through it.

Jaimie Goodwin 40:01

I feel like for me, and I don't know if this is how other people see themselves, but it's like when I watch myself in my mind, unless I'm consciously playing the best version of myself, I always play the broken version, the version that can't do it right, the version that has the sickle foot, the version that fell out of her turn. Like I'm always playing the version I'm scared of in my head, unless I'm consciously like, okay, I'm gonna sit down, I'm gonna visualize myself doing this, and I'm gonna visualize how I want to look doing this. Yeah. And every time I practice, I am that person. Yeah. You know, because I I'm guilty of going the other way. Have you experienced that? Yes.

Tyne Stecklein 40:42

I feel like a good way in for that for me has been because we're always our hardest, we're the hardest on ourself. We're our worst critic. But when I'm able to be like, because I can so easily see anyone that I care about, be it my husband or a student, and be like, but no, look at it from this angle.

Jaimie Goodwin 40:58

Yeah, totally.

Tyne Stecklein 41:00

It's that, you know, like I'm so good at giving other people the the positive reframe. Right. But if I can like step back and be like, oh, what's time's positive reframe? You know, care about myself the way I do these other people that I love.

Jaimie Goodwin 41:14

Yeah. And I think that's where like this book really helped me with like the separation of self. Because I think when I was younger in my teen years, I didn't realize that I wasn't these feelings and I wasn't these thoughts. And I I wasn't like the experience I was having. It took me a long time to realize that, like, okay, I can actually separate myself from this and be like, hmm, that's not really how I want to look. Let me visualize something different, you know. That was a really hard concept for me.

Tyne Stecklein 41:40

I think people listening could be like, I don't even understand the concept yet, because it totally it's a very profound thing in itself. But to know that, yeah, we are not the thought that we are having about ourselves. And if we don't like the thought that we're having about ourselves, you can change it at any moment in any day.

Jaimie Goodwin 41:58

You can't change your circumstance all the time, especially if you're young and you're in the place you're in, and so you have control of your life, right? But like you can, you have so much power within like how you experience it. Yeah. But I think also one thing that I have to talk to the dancers I work with a lot about is like, don't expect to understand this and for it to be there and for it to be perfect, and now you're a different dancer and now you're a different person. And like, you know, you might feel like you have this down for a week, and then suddenly you have a bad day, you have a fight with your friend, you know, bad day at home, whatever it is, and you're out of alignment and you might think you're going backwards, you're not, right? Jump back on. It's still a process when like I'm 37 and I'm still like, whoa, girl, what are you doing? Exactly. Like it's not easier than it was when I'm a kid.

Tyne Stecklein 42:54

Not in the slightest. The more you know about this concept, the harder it is, kind of in a way, because it's like, I could have done this with more grace. I could have been more present then. I could have, you know, for the first power of the years of my life. But it's like, no, to have the awareness itself is such a beautiful thing. To just have the awareness.

Jaimie Goodwin 43:12

Never found that awareness.

Tyne Stecklein 43:14

We're blessed that we ever found it. Exactly. And then, like, I'm trying to be like, okay, now I can give myself a little grace around how I'm doing it or when I didn't do it in the way that I would have liked.

Jaimie Goodwin 43:25

And I like that you said that too, because I'm definitely one of those people where I can say this all day, but I know that if someone sees me in my grief and says to me, All of this is gonna be fine. You need to be grateful for what you have, step outside of yourself and see it different. That's not helpful for me. I need you to let me grieve. And I need you to either let me pull myself out of it or give me time, a fair amount of time, right? Like, okay, she's been sad for a month. Let's have a talk, you know. But like I definitely think that the grieving process is important, whether you're grieving just a moment in time or like a complete past version of yourself. It's like if you don't have time to be upset, and if you have someone try to invalidate your feelings, it's probably gonna go the opposite way you wanted it to, right? Once we invalidate someone's feelings, they're not gonna feel safe, they're not gonna open up, their body's not gonna be like, okay, you're right. Like that, like that's just not gonna happen, right? So it's like so many times I'll see my dancers or my family in grief or just having a hard day, right? Maybe it's not even that that serious, but they're just having a bad day. And just to be like, yeah, that sucks. Like, hey, your feelings are really, really valid, and that sucks. And I've been there too, letting that sit and like feeling whether they're ready for something more positive or maybe they need another week until they feel like we can just be like back to ourselves. I just feel like reading that room, like from on from a teacher perspective, if there's any teachers here that can relate to this kind of like it's a sensitive place to be between coaching a dancer to keep pushing through to stay positive, to like separate yourself from that situation and to to make them feel seen. That's really important. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not the girl that's like, yeah, coach me, you know, if you're like if you're like you need to pull it together. Like that's not the tone that I'm gonna respond to. Yeah.

Tyne Stecklein 45:25

Yeah. But I'm glad you're saying that because who does? But again, from the other side, it feels easy to just say that to someone else.

Jaimie Goodwin 45:32

And sadly, I think I see that a lot in the coaching world of dance, where we do have this standard, I guess, where we like have to meet certain deadlines, we have to be a certain way, we have to live a certain way. And so teachers will sometimes, I think, be like pull it together intentionally, like pull it together, pull it together. And I have had to get there too, right? But I just feel like there's definitely a fine balance that we're learning now because also we're more aware, and these kids are more spiritually in tune than they used to be. I feel that the kids I work with are far more spiritually mature than I was when I was their age. I don't know if that's across the board or just the kids that like end up being a part of my tribe, you know. There is a sensitivity there that we didn't always have before or we were taught to hide. I'm not sure which one happened.

Tyne Stecklein 46:20

Yeah.

Jaimie Goodwin 46:21

It's like, you know, if you upset a kid and they close up and they cry in class, like that's over. The class is over for the kid. There's no these days being like, okay, pull yourself together. Here's a tissue. Let's go. Five, six, seven, eight. Because that's actually too harsh for the day we're in and for the time that we're in and the children that we have.

Tyne Stecklein 46:40

Yeah.

Jaimie Goodwin 46:41

You know, I just feel like there's an adjustment period for me as a teacher, for a lot of teachers, where we're like, hmm, if I want them to hear me, how what do they mean? How do they need to be spoken to?

Tyne Stecklein 46:52

Which is hard in a group setting because different people need different things. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Jaimie Goodwin 46:58

Where it's like, I mean, I'm curious how you feel about this too. But I think that as a performer, you get like into a groove of what you're used to doing and what people know you for. Then it's almost like I feel like for a while, I was I don't really have a teaching voice. Like I have a voice as a performer, but when I go into class, I don't know what my voice is. I don't know what my message is. But I know what people expect of me. And that's hard because I don't know if the two match up.

Tyne Stecklein 47:28

Yeah, that's really interesting. I was definitely in that place because I started teaching young enough that I knew exactly what was expected, what it needed to look like. I do feel like I kind of shifted the more that I got into this, especially like mindset work and heartfelt work. I kind of allowed it to shift my teaching and my message, especially in a convention space of just, no, I think this matters. Like this matters because, first of all, I feel like I'm giving my best. I don't have the coolest moves by any means to offer. Like I'm not trying to offer the best choreography. I want to offer what's gonna give them the most of me. And for me, that's how we can tap into presence and our work on our mindset and our heart space. And when I kind of took it from that angle, I felt this like just really new burst of energy for teaching. I was loving it in a way that, you know, I think at a certain point it was just routine that I did it. But then I was like, oh, I love this. And I don't know. I don't know what people think of it, but that doesn't matter. I know that I'm doing my best work. I know that I'm doing intentional work in that way.

Jaimie Goodwin 48:35

I definitely can relate to like that being the shift and like finally just feeling like, well, however, the class is received is actually not my responsibility. Exactly. Exactly. My responsibility is to give you the best of me, the best of what I know, what I think is best for the room. Yeah. But I didn't always feel that way. It was really hard to like find the confidence to be like, yeah, okay, okay, you know what? I'm gonna talk about this. And the people that resonate with it really resonate with it. That's true. And then there's like 50% of the class that really they just actually wanted to be here for like the celebrity hip-hop teacher, yeah, who's like super cute, you know? And so they're just like, get me to the next class. But I've never felt more fulfilled than when I'm being authentic with my message, with whatever movement happens in class. It's the classes that I walk away from that I feel like I wasn't fully engaged in the right way from my end that I'm like, I could have done better.

Tyne Stecklein 49:33

But like, yeah, you know, but that's when you're trying to check the boxes, exactly.

Jaimie Goodwin 49:38

Yeah, there's moments too where like maybe it's a new situation, new kids, whatever, and they're not receiving the information. And you start to, I know I don't know if we all do this, but I know I start to slip back into that. Like, what can I do to connect with them? Like, how can I talk to them or like play a cool song or do this? And it's like stepping out of myself and what my true nature is to start to try to connect with these dancers. Anyway, I find myself pulling, like pulling myself back and being like, if they don't connect to this, that's not my responsibility. That's not my worry. Yeah, I just have to be here.

Tyne Stecklein 50:14

And how beautiful is that message on the other end, too, if you're the student, if you are allowing yourself to be open and vulnerable with your movement and your performance. If they don't connect to this, that's not our that's not my responsibility. Yeah. Right? It goes both ways. Like for the student, too. It's not your job to have every single person, every single person that critiques you love what you're offering. It's your job to be you, to come on stage and be you and be really authentic and really bold in yourself. And I think always we're always going to respect someone who's really bold, but different judges are gonna have a different taste in what they love, you know, and that's fine.

Jaimie Goodwin 50:58

And that's why it's art and that's what makes it exciting. Yeah. But also, like if you are not taking that risk, and if you're not showing up authentically and you're not just like, well, I have nothing to lose. I'm gonna give it my all, like that energy, 100% of the time, you will not get anywhere with that.

Tyne Stecklein 51:17

Yeah.

Jaimie Goodwin 51:18

And it's not because anyone's punishing you or because you're not good enough, it's because you're making the choice to not fully show up. And it's amazing to watch when a dancer steps into themselves fully and they try it like too like to the max, they trust themselves fully for the first time. Literally, like their jaws will drop, their eyes will go open, they'll be like, I didn't know I could do that. Like, who is it? You know, like yeah, the mind has so much power over your body, you have no idea. Yeah, it's like it's so beautiful to me to see that process in class.

Tyne Stecklein 51:53

Me too. Someone again who is just willing to put their heart out, that's a brave thing to do. That in itself is as important as all of the other things. So, and again, different teachers are gonna recognize dancers that are working on different parts of what they have to offer, but that part is as important.

Jaimie Goodwin 52:14

And like your audience isn't gonna be dancers. If you're dancing professionally, your audience is gonna be the person sitting at home in front of their phone or the computer or whatever, like the TV set, or you know, the person that just bought tickets because they love dance. Like, you are gonna need more than your technique to like really become an effective performer. And you know, I love technique, I know you love technique. Like, we love our technique, and I think that that is part of the safety factor. Because if we don't feel strong, we can't trust our body, the cycle continues. I'm wobbling, I can't do it. Like the cycle continues at the same time. Does the aesthetic that we've applied to young dancers, is that still valid? That we need to be lean, strain, strain beans that have this perfect muscle, that like moves a certain way, that has the perfect posse with the legs up to here, like that to me doesn't apply anymore. The technique as far as keeping their body safe, giving them the stamina and the strength they need to perform the skills that they want to perform or that are required of them, that's important to me. And that's the vessel to them feeling safe and trusting

Technique That Protects The Body

Jaimie Goodwin 53:30

themselves and then becoming artists. Yeah. You know, like without the technique, they probably don't feel confident in their body.

Tyne Stecklein 53:37

Right. Can you elaborate on that idea of technique and wellness and and you know, even some injury prevention and what advice you have to offer?

Jaimie Goodwin 53:47

Again, I see so many like infinity signs in the way that I work with dancers, um, and the way we've been speaking today, how everything is connecting. Um, and it goes back to that for me, where it's like, okay, we had this aesthetic of 180-degree turnout, 180-degree legs, all these things that we expected as competitive dancers or like professional dancers in the past. I think we've outgrown that because we've become more open as a society to body type, skill type. Dance has changed as well. Like now it's more athletic. We have character dance that's respected. Like you don't have to have the legs, you don't have to have the things. But to go back on the importance of the technique and why we do it, it's like your foundation and the way your body is meant to move is meant to move to meant to move in a stacked way so that all of the joints and the muscle groups fire up efficiently. When we skip that foundation, whether we're learning it in ballet, which is our traditional way of doing it right, or whether you're taking really great cross-training for dancers, conditioning classes that are teaching you like dance technique, whatever. Like, there's also a lot of different approaches to it now. We don't necessarily have to have classical ballet to be a great dancer. But you still do have to have the foundation of like, this is how my joints work, this is how my muscles work, this is how my soft tissue, my fascia works. These are this is how the neurons in my brain are firing all of this. And this is why it all comes together to do what it does, whether it's a certain skill or a reason why it protects you, right? When you have that understanding in your body, then one, you can do more because you're gonna maximize your strength, you're gonna maximize your stamina, you're gonna maximize your body's like, oh, you took me from this place that I'm not safe into a place that I feel safe being, then my muscles fire up naturally. Now I can build the strength, the courage to open up, to become artistic, to move off my balance, to have hyperextension, to do all these things. But if I don't first understand how my tool, my machine works, then it's dangerous, straight up dangerous to do the kinds of athleticisms that we're asking them to do.

Tyne Stecklein 56:02

Right.

Jaimie Goodwin 56:03

And it doesn't allow you to have that feeling of like, okay, I know my body, I know my tool, so I can do anything. I can look at a screen, I can see a skill on a TV show, and I can know because I understand my machine, how to get that done and how to get it done safely. And if you understand that about your body, you can truly do anything. If you understand how the energy in your body moves and how it's transmitted to other people, you can touch and affect anyone. The importance of technique, once they understand that, and it's like I always tell my kids if I'm giving them a drill that feels boring, I tell them why we're doing it, what it turns into. So that they can see that like I'm asking you to lengthen your leg out two inches eight times in a row and hold it for a certain amount of time to, you know, strengthen the inner hip muscles, but that actually translates to your side tilt, your fan kick, your this straddle leap, whatever it is you're doing, right? So now the kids get excited because they see how it translates, right? But I think that like there's so much science now that is finally open and available to us, and it's being practiced in studios and in convention spaces to not have that awareness as a young dancer. If you don't have it in your studio, go seek it out. Because it's like saying you're a piano player but not knowing the keys. Right? Owning a car, but it breaks down, you have no idea what to do. Yes, you can send it to the mechanic. Yes, you can go to your dance teacher. But when you leave studio, when you graduate, if you're serious about this, how are you keeping your body safe? How are you expanding your artistry? You know, all those things for me, the foundation of that is technique, whether it's ballet or another route to that.

Tyne Stecklein 57:48

Yeah, totally. I love that. You know, you said if you don't have this at your studio, you can seek it out with sugar foot therapy, which you're trained in. Do they offer some of this online?

Jaimie Goodwin 57:58

Yeah, I mean, there are so many different platforms, but as far as injury prevention for dancers, I love sugar foot therapy. Um, they also have live classes like twice a week, I believe every week. And so you can tune in virtually and take live classes with them to get fresh, up-to-date things to do. What I love about them is that, you know, you can cross-train in a billion different ways. But for something that's like, hey, this is for you as a dancer, you can go through their whole syllabus, and there's four extensions, for leaps, for pirouettes, or you can even go by the muscle group. Like, you need more quad strength, you need more of this. But that's amazing. And I follow a ton of different dance therapists online that are giving amazing advice and amazing exercises that are actually safe. I do not recommend just going on and trying anything you see on Instagram. There are so many unsafe things going on on Instagram. Just be weary if you're a dancer seeking out your own information. So I just think find a reputable source. Look at what they're doing. If they're not giving you like weighted, gym-looking like things, squats, you know, things that are opposite of what we do in dance. That is the true cross-training approach for a dancer for injury prevention is what do we do in the classroom? And let's do the opposite of that in a safe way because that's how we find muscle balance so that we can protect ourselves. Finding weighted exercises, simple things, working in an inversion, taking a Pilates class, taking a yoga class. Like these things work in positions that we are usually avoiding, internal rotation, you know, um, squatting positions. We're always taught to be forward. Also, one thing I don't think dancers really think about when it comes to like their body and injury prevention. When we do these things that feel unnatural, like I'm getting you in a squat position and you're like resisting me so hard because all your life you've been told to get your body up, get your hips forward and stay on the top of your feet and not put your weight in your heels. Nothing about that is wrong. But that's the purpose of cross-training is now we're going to the opposite space that we're usually in. And usually we're going into a space that like is designed to maximize human potential, right? Like when we're in a squat, that's where your glutes want to work. So we maximize the glute activation in a squat before we bring it to a plie. And so I think that we don't always connect the dots where it's like, hey, doing this is not just keeping you healthy. You're teaching your muscles how to activate at their greatest potential. And now that's going to unlock the skills that you want to perform. You know, it's another element of nurturing all of your goals. Um, or I think some dancers just write it off as like, well, I'm not injured now, so I don't need it.

Tyne Stecklein 1:00:52

I've been that dancer.

Jaimie Goodwin 1:00:53

We're all guilty of it. But we were also taught, and I think it's still happening, we we were also taught like not to speak up. Yeah. And if you were hurt, you would be replaced. And so there's a lot of toxic mindsets that are phasing out now, thankfully. And we get to be the generation that's like, hey, I noticed you're limping. Come talk to me about it. Yeah. Not wrap it up and get on stage. That's our responsibility as teachers now is to shift and change with the information that we now know to be true.

Tyne Stecklein 1:01:24

And also recognizing, I think, as teachers, too, it's okay to not have the answers. I've had a kid come to me about, you know, like something with his body, and I was like, I don't know. And I don't want to give you the wrong guidance, but I know you definitely need to listen to your body, listen to what's hurting, and take these steps to try and find the right support.

Jaimie Goodwin 1:01:43

100%. 100%. There's so many times that an answer will ask me a question, maybe it's physical, maybe it's something completely else. And it's just like, you don't have to pretend like you know the answer ever. Right. You know, you can always be like to me, if a person, a doctor, a teacher tells me, I'm not sure about that, but I'm gonna research that for you and I'll get back to you on that. I grow in trust for that person because I'm like, cool, they didn't pretend to know. Yeah. And they were bold enough and confident enough to be like, I don't know. Now I trust that person more because they're probably gonna tell me the truth.

Tyne Stecklein 1:02:20

In talking about injury, I know that you have had another ACL correct recently. And I know that we've talked about a little bit just the challenge of that and how it's more than just the physical, but how it affects you and your mind and the space

Fourth ACL Tear And Motherhood Identity

Tyne Stecklein 1:02:40

that you're in in life. Will you share more with us about that?

Jaimie Goodwin 1:02:44

I'm in the space right now that I would definitely describe as like a middle place where you're like not really where you want to be, and there's things happening that you're, you know, you don't have control over. And it was hard for me with ACL tear. I've had three before this. This is my fourth one. But it happened when I was six months out of having my baby. And so that was hard for me because I had this vision in my head of who I would be as a mother and like what I would do with her when she was six months, seven months, eight months, all these things through the summer and all these things. And I had to be off my leg for three months because I chose a natural healing program and I had to basically like wear a strap on peg leg because I wasn't how to put weight on my foot. And it was the only way for me to be able to take care of Evelie was to have a way to get around. I couldn't use crutches. Um, and so I'm saying all that because I got into the space of, oh my God, I am not able to be the mother that I visualize right now because that woman like had resources that I don't have. She had a knee that worked. She was able to drive and get out of the car and get her baby out of the car safely. You know, um, I couldn't do any twisting actions, like anything like that was very any hot, heavy impact actions were really hard. Not only that, but now, you know, I'm married, we have a home, we've built this home family together. I've always been used to being busy, dancing, a vessel, an outlet, somewhere to put my emotions. That was taken away, right? And having tons of resources because I've always been busy, right? Like I'm performing, I'm I'm teaching, I'm this, like I've never really had to worry about all of my income just went away. And you know, my husband, he's a pilot, you know, he's great, he's taking care of the family. But for me, as an identity, lost my identity as a dancer, couldn't teach, lost, you know, I had to give up on my teaching jobs because I couldn't travel with the baby through airports and also choreograph on a peg leg, lost my financial freedom, right? My husband's taking care of us. That for me was like a I never really wanted that. Yes, I can trust him. Yes, it's not, I'm not in danger. It's just like not having my own resources and having to be like, hey, can you pay for this? Hey, can you do this? Because I just lost all of my money for the next year. That took a hit on my ego. Now I've lost another form of identity because now I'm dependent on someone. And never in my life have I been dependent on anyone. I never even had parents to go to and say, Can I borrow money from you?

Tyne Stecklein 1:05:22

Yeah.

Jaimie Goodwin 1:05:22

You know, I've always taken care of myself and the people around me. So for that to be stripped away, the dancing, the teaching, all of that, like I, and then you know, the identity shift into becoming a mother alone. Yeah, massive. One of the biggest of all time, right? So that on top of the loss time, I've been in the middle for so long because of that out from underneath me that it's been this constant struggle of implement what you teach, implement what you believe, implement what you know to be true.

Tyne Stecklein 1:05:55

Yeah.

Jaimie Goodwin 1:05:55

But it's hard every day when the progress is so little, so small. Right, put the surgery off because my baby's like starting to walk and I didn't want to be recovering from the surgery while she was walking. I'd have to be off my feet again for another month. And like, you know, all those little things just kind of lined up to the point where I was like, I'm putting my family first, I'm doing PT. I don't want to go through the surgery. This is my priority right now to make sure that I'm mobile and present with my baby. And I'm functional throughout the day, right? So I'm not putting myself, I'm not self-sacrificing, but I realized through this whole thing. And every time I go through these middle grounds, I'm like, you are going to find a purpose in this. You are going to get through this and you are going to find a reason why this happened so you can make something of this. Like that's just how I survive, right? And so I'm going through this fallout essentially and feeling like, okay, well, I'm trying to recreate my entire life. I'm trying to live by all these standards, but I don't feel like the best version of myself. I don't feel proud of where I am. This is not the mother I thought I would be. This is like not the life I thought I would be living right now. I left LA to create this beautiful, domesticated, like, you know, white picket fence life with this man. And like, this is a disaster. The only thing I have, and I know this sounds horrible. I don't mean it the way it's coming out. So I'll clarify losing everything except for my husband and my baby in the household and my immediate community, but all the things that I would have tied my identity to, seeing all of those identities, I was like there and feeling like a bad mentor, a bad mother, a bad wife. And so I'm saying all of this to give you context of like all these lessons that we've talked about in this podcast. I'm still figuring out how to implement them. I'm currently trying to implement them every day. Some days I'm like, yes, I see it. I see the vision. We're moving towards the vision. Things are working out. I'm able to find that vibration in my body that feels like I'm lifting up, I'm rising. Some days I'm like back to my old self last year when this all first happened. And I'm like, wow, this will never end. I feel like a failure. How did I get here? So being in the middle like this is something that I've had to do so many times in my life. You know, I it's my fourth ACL tear. So there's been so many times in my life where things have been stripped away. And I'm like, how am I gonna survive? Like, what am I gonna do next? Like, who's my community? Things will fall away. Most of my life I've been in the middle. So if I don't start enjoying the middle, my life will end and I will have had a handful of moments that I felt like you've arrived. And

Learning To Love The Middle

Jaimie Goodwin 1:08:45

that's it. And that was a huge perspective change for me. Just kind of building on all the things I already believed in was the fact that like time is moving so quickly. I see it even more now that I'm a mom. And when we don't enjoy these moments where we feel like we're in the middle and we're waiting for the thing we actually want, we're waiting for the life we actually want, the house we actually want, the career we wanted, the whatever, the next moment. If we're always waiting for that and hoping for that, 80% of your life, you're gonna be waiting and you're gonna be hoping because I truly believe that I've lived this amazing life. I'm very proud of the career I've had. I'm very proud of my community, I'm very proud of what my parents have instilled in me and who I've become. And also, if I don't make the choice to find joy in the moments that I'm like, who am I? How did I get here? I don't want to be here, I don't want to be here.

Tyne Stecklein 1:09:40

Yeah.

Jaimie Goodwin 1:09:40

If I don't figure out how to love those moments too, then 80% of my life, I've been waiting for something better, you know? And it's just like, who wants that?

Tyne Stecklein 1:09:50

Right. And the something better, I think sometimes in our mind isn't what we thought it would be either. Whatever the something better is, it's actually a letdown, like in reality compared to the vision of what it would be or created its own struggle or challenge. When you were talking, Jamie, I I it just kept coming to me to ask you, like, what as a mother, if there's one word, like one thing you wanted to be, you want to be, what's the word? Heasant, which I actually am that, right?

Jaimie Goodwin 1:10:18

And so thank you for saying that because um I have also been able to see that if this hadn't happened, this injury, I would have strapped her to my bat and I would have gone to all the studios and gone to all the dance events and gone to all the things, and she would have been with me, but I wouldn't have been with her, you know, I would have been doing all this. And so I think the universe knows me better than I know myself and said, stop right here. This is where you transform. This is not where you carry on. Like this is the moment that you choose her, the moment that you choose the new pathway, the moment that you choose like your family and what's best for them, not the next dance event, not the next booking, not the next thing. I can honestly say I've also been injured multiple times because I will choose the next dance event over what's best for my body. I will choose the next thing that is, well, that's a dream of mine. I have to do it. The timing's not right. I have a tornado yell. It doesn't matter. I put a brace on, I still do it. Like I've been that dancer before.

Tyne Stecklein 1:11:21

Yeah.

Jaimie Goodwin 1:11:22

And so I think that when we don't recognize and learn and choose the best paths for ourselves, it will be chosen for us. And so that's kind of where I was at. I think where I was going to choose a pathway that wasn't the best for me and my family. And it was chosen for me. And it's been a grieving period because I've had to be like, well, I'm not that dancer anymore. I'm not that human anymore at all. I've carried parts of her with me, and that's beautiful. And I love the parts I've taken.

Tyne Stecklein 1:11:50

Yeah.

Jaimie Goodwin 1:11:51

But to like not really be in that timeline experiencing her anymore is hard.

Tyne Stecklein 1:11:56

Can't thank you enough for being open enough to share that story with us because I think it's just it's the foundation of everything. We all have our own lessons that we have to learn. And sometimes I think it hits, it takes hitting a rock bottom to actually be like, oh, it's the same lesson because I haven't learned it. And like you said, then it maybe it's chosen for you. But you but you said, you know, to be the best for my family. But also I feel like when you scope out, it's like for you too, because you know what you want is to you want to be with her. You want to be present.

Jaimie Goodwin 1:12:36

Yeah. And you know what the most crazy part about this, and I know that he this is human and everyone experiences at some point, but I am living the exact life that I dreamed of five years ago, minus like the injury, but like the husband, like he's everything I ever dreamt of. The baby, she's everything I ever dreamt of. Like our home together, our love, the way it feels. Like we have everything that I ever wanted. And yet being in the moment and it not looking the way I wanted it to. That is human, the human cycle of being like, oh my God, this isn't what I thought. This isn't what I thought. But really, like you said, I'm present more than ever. And I have like, I left LA for this life. And now I'm living this life, and I have moments of grieving the old one, wishing that we were somewhere else, you know, wishing we were already in our future home, like things like that. And so that's where I think the wishing comes in and the breaking of the cycle in your thoughts, where when I catch myself being like, when am I gonna be like back in the studio because I miss it? Like, whatever, my baby's gonna be one and a half for like a half a second, you know, like I can be out of the studio for a second. You know, the point is that the time is passing. I don't want to live just in the moments that I feel like I've arrived.

Tyne Stecklein 1:13:53

Yeah, the moments on paper that mean something to who, for what. Yeah. Because when we look back at our childhood, I don't remember those things about my parents or the the people that I looked up to. I remember the love. I remember the playing cards at the table with my grandparents. You know, we remember those like connected moments. Such an amazing reminder of like this journey that we're on, the in-between, the middle, as you're talking about. The middle, it matters as much as I mean, it matters probably more than the the highs or the lows, because it's what we make of the challenges and of the middle that lead to the next steps. And the middle is the journey.

Jaimie Goodwin 1:14:37

Yes, it is. And I heard this saying recently, it completely like locked in. I think what we're talking about here. A woman I follow, and I I admire her so much, um, Frances. She just recently said, the now is the future. You are making the future right now. Every moment that you are in the now is creating your future. And so you need to be feeling in the now the way that you want your future to look. And it's like I've always known that about the frequency, keeping your body in this, whatever. But like just to imagine my life like little building blocks and every moment being a now, and what do I want this creation to look like in the end? Because I think sometimes I'm guilty of it. I can definitely be like, I'm gonna get through this hard time right now, and then like yeah, this is actually where I'm putting the blocks up. Yeah, and if I don't put the blocks up, or I put the blocks of grief up for too long, or I put the blocks of like depression and anxiety that I also move through. If I build my house out of that, that's not actually what I wanted. The work is just hard to do. Like we can say these, we can say this all day long, but the work is really hard to do every day.

Tyne Stecklein 1:15:51

But how but how beautiful of you to share this and to you are practicing what you're teaching, and it's not easy, but that's a beautiful thing to hear too. It's not easy. It's also not easy to feel badly about things that are hard either. It's life is not easy. No, and presence, like I've talked about that on this show a lot. Like things that I were were the big things that I missed because I wasn't even present while they were happening.

Jaimie Goodwin 1:16:20

That that sends a whole nother type of grief through my body is like realizing, oh my God, I did that.

Tyne Stecklein 1:16:26

And like I did that? Where was I? Where was I? And it's what we have is right now. We have right now, and in this really big life way, these really big life moments, and also again for like our dancers, like you have this weekend of the classes or today, the class that you're looking forward to or you're nervous about. You have this one right now. That's all we really can focus on. So, what do you want to leave? What do you want to offer? How do you want to show up for it?

Jaimie Goodwin 1:16:52

I agree with that, and I feel like I've said that to my dancers too, and we hope that they'll be able to take that in and make something of it. And I know that for me, being stubborn like I am, I just kind of needed to learn from experience, you know. We all do. Sometimes I wish that for my dancers. I have a dancer that went through a hard time recently with an injury, and I said to her, like, this really sucks, and this is really hard. And at some point in your career, you are gonna experience this because everyone does some version of this, this grief that you're feeling. And um, the fact that you've experienced it so young gives you tools that other cancers don't have now, you know. So, like, wow, what have you learned from this? And she was like, I have so much more awareness of my body, I have so much more awareness of like I've been doing things with my body I didn't realize, and now I realize it because I'm like focused in, and I was like, Okay, now take that, learn from it, and then you also have to learn that trust again. I don't know, you know, we could go in circles because life is such a balance of like, okay, cool, take that risk, but also like honor yourself and then take that risk and then like you know, and we do our best.

Tyne Stecklein 1:18:04

We do our we do our best, we give ourselves grace, hopefully, when we know we could do better and then we can do better in the future.

Jaimie Goodwin 1:18:12

One thing I do rest easy on is knowing that I truly believe that no matter what choice we make, we'll end up in the place we're meant to be. I love that. So it's like you might make the wrong choice, but like it's gonna come back around to you and maybe it will look different. Yeah, but you're gonna end up in the place you need to end up. Yeah. Especially if you're living intuitively and you're doing what feels right and not what other people tell you to do.

Tyne Stecklein 1:18:38

Oh, I love that. If you're doing what feels right and not what other people tell you to do. And it's such the heart of what I want this

Mentorship, Community, And Closing

Tyne Stecklein 1:18:45

show to be about. Jamie, thank you so much for everything you shared for being so open with us. You offer a mentorship online, a group mentorship, right? The dancers portal. Yeah, and that's something we'll link to in the show notes. But that's something that dancers are free to check out and and join, right?

Jaimie Goodwin 1:19:03

Yeah, definitely. Um, I try to I do one-on-ones with dancers a lot, but I tried to recently generate more energy towards making it more accessible for dancers to get this kind of information, this kind of mentorship. Um, it's meant to be an active space. So, like the more you interact in the space, the more you get out of it. And I believe about mentorship in general. So I am in there communicating with dancers, I'm guiding them through. The more they share, the more I can help guide them. And so it's kind of a it's meant to be a community of support, not just from me, but from dancers that have like minds and they can commune together. So that's been really special. It's newer for me, and I'm still kind of navigating and playing with it. So yeah, I love to kind of learn from dancers what they need and how we can help nurture that.

Tyne Stecklein 1:19:54

Such an offering that, you know, I wish I would have had something like that on my path. Oh, I love you. I love you too. I know we could talk through a day of this. It was so wonderful to connect with you on everything and thank you again for being here. It means so much. It was so nice being here.

Jaimie Goodwin 1:20:10

And I really appreciate you even thinking of me for this after all these years and you know, being apart for so many years. It feels like we've like friends forever and we talk every day. So I just love our relationship. Thank you.

Tyne Stecklein 1:20:23

Well, thank you. We will link to you in the show notes so people can connect with you. And yeah. All right. Thank you. Bye, everyone. Thanks for listening. Bye, you guys. Thank you. What an amazing conversation. I'm so grateful to Jaimie for really opening up her heart the way she did with us today. If you enjoyed this episode, please give it a like or a review and send it to someone who could use this goodness. Have a beautiful day, friends. This is Essence Embodied by Tyne Stecklein.