Why “Energy Efficient” Homes Still Make People Sick (and How to Fix It) | Craig Leonard

Most homes pass inspection. Very few are built for health.

In this episode of Built. Trusted. Chosen., I sit down with Craig Leonard, a third-generation builder who completely rethought his approach to construction after mould contamination in his own home made his family seriously ill. What he discovered will challenge how you think about energy efficiency, ventilation and modern building standards.

Craig explains why tightly sealed homes, constant temperature control and poorly managed moisture are creating internal ecosystems that support mould growth. We unpack HVAC placement, condensation risks, window failures, shower waterproofing mistakes and what it really costs to build a home that protects the people living inside it.

You’ll take away:

• Why modern “energy efficient” homes can trap moisture and create mould risk
• How HVAC systems in unconditioned attics become mould distribution networks
• Why mould can grow at 55% relative humidity even when it doesn’t feel humid
• Practical retrofit strategies like conditioned attics and duct review
• Why healthy construction typically adds just 3–5% to build cost
• How positioning around health creates a powerful niche in construction

About Craig Leonard

Craig Leonard is the owner of Leonard Crafted Homes, a Texas-based luxury custom home builder specialising in high-performance, health-focused residential construction. After losing his own home to mould contamination, Craig became a building biologist and now integrates advanced ventilation, moisture management and conditioning systems into every home he builds.

Learn more: https://leonardcraftedhomes.com

About Wes Towers

Wes Towers is the host of Built. Trusted. Chosen. and founder of Uplift 360. He helps trades and construction companies be built, trusted, and chosen online through high-performing websites and Search Everywhere Optimisation.

Learn more: https://uplift360.com.au/

Want to be a guest on Built. Trusted. Chosen.? Book here:

https://uplift360.com.au/built-trusted-chosen-podcast-guest-booking/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Built Trusted Chosen, the podcast for leaders and marketers in trades and construction. Hosted by Wiz Towers from Uplift 360.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

G'day, Craig. It's good to have you on the podcast today, Built Trusted, Chosen. So really honored to have you and to unpack some of your stories. So just briefly, if you'd like to tell the audience who you are and what you're doing these days, and then we'll unpack it further as we progress.

SPEAKER_04 0:28

Sounds great. Thanks for inviting me, Wes. This is an honor. So my name's Craig Leonard. I'm owner of Leonard Crafted Homes. We build luxury custom homes in uh Texas, United States of America. And um we we also own a couple of trades. So uh we own antler insulation, we do all types of insulation. Uh so we we get a unique view of being a general contractor as well as a tradesperson. And uh they're certainly very different, but uh it's really been nice having a view of both of those things.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Yeah, absolutely. And the audience will no doubt learn a lot from your journey. And I know you've got a really interesting story and a and a certain um focus with with what you're up to these days. Do you want to go into some of that story? What led you into the career path and the the um business path that you've taken?

SPEAKER_04 1:19

Certainly. So uh just kind of a quick history of uh where it started. My my father, well, actually, my grandfather built homes, but he was built, he was born um right at right about 1900. So uh back then you didn't have a lot of home building businesses. Um, you know, you built your house and you helped your neighbor build their house. And um, but he was a carpenter, and then my father started building custom homes um as he as he got of age to do that. And so I'm third generation um home builder. So I've spent most of my life on job sites, but um after high school, I did uh I went to secondary for um to be a teacher. I was a high school teacher for almost a decade, and uh I taught ag science, which is uh agricultural um science and technology. So I taught animal science and welding, and uh naturally those were the fun classes, so I I really enjoyed that, but I felt a strong calling that God says you need to go back and join your family business. So um did that and joined uh back into the family business in 2018 and uh started building custom homes then instead of teaching. Um so fast track forward a little ways. Um I've I've got um a lifetime of experience in this, but but I've only professionally done this since 2018. Um well, about two years ago, um my wife started getting really sick, and we could not figure out what was going on. Um we bought the home that we lived in years ago. I didn't build it. We bought it when we got married, and um, we went to lots of doctors, and she was having symptoms that that mirrored uh MS, that mirrored um rheumatoid arthritis, things like that. And you know, we're in our 30s and we really shouldn't be kind of dealing with that kind of stuff yet. Um come to find out, we had a mold problem in our home. And uh we ended up losing our home. And we tore it down, we we went all the way to dirt and and had to rebuild it, um, which spawned a lot of questions in my mind because I felt like the home that we lived in was well built. I it it had standard building practice, it it uh passes inspections and everything like this. Um, but it it was not okay. Um, and unfortunately, it was because of a lot of what we consider standard building practices. Um, there was water uh infiltration and or collection from humidity and from other things going on in the home, which were making us sick. Um, our kids started to show symptoms, I started to show symptoms, and mold's nasty, it's a neurotoxin. It gets inside of yourself and and and eats you eats at your mitochondria, it doesn't let you detoxify. It's awful. Um, so I I jumped headfirst into uh learning about why this is happening because immediately my first thought was I've got to get my family safe. But but more so I'm still building homes for people. I want to make sure that we are overcoming these obstacles so that we don't have any of this growth happening in these homes. So um I began the journey of becoming a building biologist so that I can understand the the relationship of the built environment in which we live and our bodies. And really that was that was the the first step into a a journey of really drinking through a fire hose and trying to understand what do we need to change and and we need to do it now.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

Yeah, I can understand that. That's uh a huge thing. Uh when your family are really suffering from health concerns, that that takes the first priority. But I suppose, and you felt called to to get it back into the building space. It it seems like um a real alignment with with that. Um obviously be building custom homes, but also seeing the challenge of what a a bad home can be. Those uh that alignment, those two things created um what your business is now. So out of what was a horrible scenario came an opportunity to help and serve a lot of other people in the same space.

SPEAKER_04 5:44

That's right. Yeah, it's really turned out to be a massive blessing. And and I mean, we see that across our lives. A lot of the hard times, the the struggle, the those are the the moments that we learn, the moments that we actually excel and go to the next level. And uh, and that's that's been a a really neat calling to to really lean in in those tough times and and don't don't shrink back and be fearful in those times, but really lean in, get through them, and when you come out of them, you're gonna be on another level.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Yeah, it's really interesting. And so you say you you mentioned the the home that was uh hazard from the mold perspective, it melt met all the basic criteria uh to a degree and was all approved and all that kind of stuff. Um that's really interesting. Uh do you feel as though the the standards are not as high as they need to be, or what do you what do you think the the the downfall was in in that scenario?

SPEAKER_04 6:42

Yeah, I I think that the the standards need to be updated. Um so what's happened is that about 20 to 30 years ago, a lot of building uh programs started coming out to make homes very highly efficient. And in order to do that, we needed to stock the air exchange with the outside. Um so what happened is that we started um experimenting for decades because let's face it, construction's not on the leaning edge of technology most of the time. We wish it was, but we're not lead adopters in a lot of these spaces. Um and so we were um experimenting as a as an industry of how do we how do we um create more efficiency? And that's where the green homes came from. Um and green homes have nothing to do with health and everything to do with energy efficiency. So we started tightening homes and and stopping air gaps and creating a tighter box, which in fact exactly what creating uh an interior ecosystem, if you will. Um looking at this as a building biologist and understanding the relationship of the built environment and the people living inside, we use nature as the gold standard. We we uh believe the assumption that God created nature, it works well, except that we now want to live inside of a box, which is our house. And and so that's where the problem comes. That's why a lot of this was not that big of an issue until the air conditioner started being introduced to a home. And now we want to keep it at the same temperature all the time. And and previously we didn't have that. We either had window airflow, indoor flow, and uh and a furnace to provide heat. We didn't have 72 degrees 24 hours a day. And so we start tightening up homes, we start trying to keep them at the same temperature. Now we're creating temperature deltas and and temperature differences, and we're creating a lot of condensation. We're creating um moisture. Our bodies are emitting moisture all the time. Um, the the quantity of liquid that comes out of our our breath, out of cooking, out of taking a shower, it's staggering. Much moisture. Um, our homes are actually exhausting because you can measure it um on our homes, and it's it's really neat to see how many gallons of water we pull out of the air every day. Um that's just one piece of this. But back to where did this happen? We started using air conditioners, we started tightening up homes, but we were not then doing a good job of of conditioning that air, and I don't mean for temperature only. So we gotta we gotta provide temperature conditioning, moisture conditioning, and and uh particle conditioning. So that's gonna be your viruses and bacterias and molds and um air pollution, polls. No matter where you're at in the world, I'm sure there's trees and grasses that produce polls and they create allergy issues for people. Well, those get trapped inside humps too. Every time you open a door and close the door, some come in. Um, but they rarely go out. So we we needed to control all of those things within the air, but then we also have water in homes. And I love that I have a sink that I can go turn on and brush my teeth, but that water can also be my greatest enemy. So I have to be very cautious of how that's done. Um pinhole leaks, minor leaks, things like that. A lot of times people say that's not that big a deal. I'll call a plumber tomorrow, we'll get that fixed. Well, that is a big deal. Um we're installing monitoring systems, uh, whole home monitoring systems to make sure that our our plumbing system is not um allowing water out places it shouldn't, basically. Um so we we tighten up homes. Um now we're now we're saying um we're we're going to make this home 72 degrees, but then we put up by human beings in them and they start cooking and showering in them, and we get a lot of humidity. Um and we're not removing that efficiently. Um so mold can start to grow at 55% relative humidity, which is doesn't feel humid, but it it is. Um so, anyways, I can get way down into these details, but fact is we started tightening up homes and then not doing well with the tight home.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, you you mentioned that you've generational uh uh in your family, uh people building homes. I mean, a hundred years ago that the homes probably had ventilation. They kind of intuitively knew um that the ventilation was important. I mean, I remember uh I had a uh an office in an old building which was actually built for migrant housing here in Australia. Um so this double brick um uh really solid place, but the the massive gaps in the bricks for ventilation purposes. Um that's just how they built back then. Um but these days everything's sealed. So if I look around in I'm in an apartment right now, uh built in 2015, I believe, but it's airtight, you know, it's uh double glazed, everything's super airtight. So nothing's escaping out of here, and all that uh breathing out that I do, um, probably uh probably of somewhat of a concern in in this place here. Um that makes a whole lot of sense. What are so is there much you can do to remedy the issues um if a house is already built? Obviously, if you're custom building, you can do a whole bunch of things to to get that stuff done right. But what what can you do to uh mitigate some of the risks um in retrospect?

SPEAKER_04 13:00

Yeah, for sure. So a lot of this greatly depends on what your climate is. Um if you're if you're in Australia uh versus Texas versus a very cold, dry climate, some of these recommendations are certainly going to change because those those climates are are are putting the hot and the cold in different locations, meaning inside or outside. Um what we're trying to do is um we're trying to reduce the amount of temperature difference that we have between levels of the home. So having an unconditioned attic space in in our area was super common. So we would insulate the ceiling, not the roof deck, and our HVAC system was in the in the unconditioned attic. So we've got an air handler that is in an attic, and in the summer it's 150 degrees. And inside the coil of that air conditioner, it's 50 degrees. So we've got a hundred degree delta. What happens is it starts raining inside those air ducts and just moisture like crazy. And then we've got heat all around these air ducts that have moisture inside of them, and a lot of times these these it was very popular, and it's still honestly still pretty popular to use ductboard to build your plenums and some of your longer runs and trunk lines. That's porous, it absorbs this moisture, and it's just a beautiful dark place for mold to grow. That's one area. So moving to conditioned attic spaces, um, again, with my insulation company, we do this a lot. We retrofit homes with with conditioned attics. We'll go in, we've got massive vacuums, and we'll suck out all the fiberglass or whatever's in the ceiling for the for the insulation, and we'll get all that out of there, and then we'll we'll do a foam on the roof deck to give that insulated attic space. Um, and there's a lot of uh controversy around spray foam uh for a lot of different reasons. And um I'm on both sides of that, honestly, because from a from a health standpoint, I don't like what the foam does from a performance standpoint. I love it. So we have found a product that our company uses that's a low VOC product, um, has all the thermal barriers and things, so it's it's a very safe product, but that's one thing you can do in a home that's that's already built. And probably the biggest return on investment would be doing that. Um and then if that air conditioning system has been in that home for a while, um, really investigating that hard and making sure that um those duct the ductwork and the plenum and really the system doesn't need to be replaced to remove that microbial growth that's happening inside those air ducts. But it's gonna keep happening if you don't get it into a conditioned space. Um and that's one way to do it. There's other ways, it really depends on the the architecture of the home. Um we work very closely with architects as we design our custom homes. And um architects that are willing to really go on this journey with us, um one, they're they look excited because it's it's kind of like this is something a little different train of thought. And some of them say this is nothing new, they've done this in commercial forever. And I say, that's right, they have. And in residential, we don't um until until we started, and there's a few other builders that are adopting it, but commercial construction has has used these ventilation systems, has used these insulation techniques. Um, they the moisture barriers that we're using, they've been using them for a decade or more. And so it's it's kind of interesting how how um when we we communicate with our trades, um, some of them say, it looks like y'all are building this commercial. And well, fact is some of those methods work really well.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

It's interesting, and the the different climates obviously have a big, massive part to play. I mean, and I'm from Australia and we have lots of different sometimes. It um people are not aware of just how big Australia is and the different climates we have. Um so we have really humid climates and uh drier climates. So in the drier areas, there's um some people who might have the evaporative coolers um sucking air through water pads. I've been in homes where you can smell when they turn that thing on, there's a smell. So it's got to be mold in the pads itself. Surely that can't be uh can't be all that great. Do you do you guys what's your climate where you are?

SPEAKER_04 17:58

Yeah, so um we are we are tip uh 10 months out of the year, we are above 75 degrees. Probably six months of those years, we're above 90 degrees. So it's really, really hot typically. We get about two two weeks of cold weather um in the in the year, um, and about two weeks of mild weather, and the rest is pretty warm. Um, but our we're we're pretty dry from a rainfall standpoint, but from a humidity standpoint, we're not that dry. Um yeah, we average uh anywhere from 60 to well on average 60 to 80 percent relative humidity at all times. Um in the colder, the when the cold, dry air blows through, uh it does go down, of course. Um, but just because it's cold doesn't mean it's dry. Um there's a lot of cold climates that are humid. Um so it really does depend on that. And there are there's actually um there are climate zone maps that are out there, um, especially in the insulation world that that dictate what code says you need to do for your insulation and your your thermal barriers and your envelope. So um there are there are some recognized uh designations all throughout the world of of climate zones.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Yeah, no, I understand so the um I certainly see a a fair few builders um who are uh focused on the energy efficiency of of housing, and obviously a lot of nations are pushing toward uh some standards in that space. But it seems uh as you're saying, the healthy homes are not really a a big focus just yet. Certainly in my world, I I mean, I think you're the first guy I've spoken to in that space. Is it kind of growing that industry in your in your area or in the States or not not really not super fast?

SPEAKER_04 19:56

Um I know I know less than a handful in Texas that that that I know of. There's probably more, but that that I know of and have communicated with that do this. Um so no it's not, but but you know, to to touch on what what I mentioned earlier, Need has brought up is this energy efficiency, right? That we we are being pushed for that, and there's rebates for that. And fact is if you focus on making the home healthy, by default, it's energy efficient because of how we're doing that. I'll give you an example. The home that we lost, we we it had an unconditioned attic, we didn't pay it in to cool the attic. You know, a lot of people think that it's costing more because we're now cooling the attic space and heating it and all of that. Well, the the home that we built back is a thousand square feet bigger. Um, and it has all these systems that I'm I'm telling you about that we need to have, and I haven't even gone over a lot of those, but um, there's more electrical systems in the home, and my energy bill on the new house, which is larger, is sixty to eighty dollars per month less than my old house, which was not didn't have a conditioned attic, it you know, it just was standard construction. So by default, I I didn't care what my electricity bill was when I built this house. Obviously, I was focused on health. Um and it by default, because of how we built it, it it's it's operating better. It's called high performance construction. And because of these systems working together, there's nothing fighting another system and and creating inefficiencies. They work together. Um and once you get that home conditioned, it's easy to keep it conditioned. You don't have to continually run the system. There's nights that it's 80 degrees or 90 degrees outside, and our system won't even come on.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:01

But our ventilation is still running. We still have airflow. And so it really makes for a comfortable home to be in.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

Yeah. And so taking it to market, because there'll be a lot of assumptions that probably are incorrect that opposite to what you're saying. So it's going to be a whole bunch of extra expense to get this stuff done and it's going to be less energy efficient. There might be assumptions. Are there assumptions like that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:29

So when I when I start talking to a client or a potential client about our building practices, and I I get them really excited about the healthy home, and then I start telling them what systems we have to use, and they start just assuming dollar signs. Is it more expensive? Yes. Simple answer. Yes. But what we found is it's three to five percent on the total cost of the home different than your standard construction practice, which is like that's that's that's it, that's the cheapest insurance you're ever going to buy. Because insurance companies, our insurance company, told us to take a walk. They didn't help us at all because mold is an exclusion. Every insurance company, at least in the states, maybe in the world, they don't cover mold. They don't cover microbial growth. Um I got to eat the total cost of my home. And so 3%, like that's some cheap insurance. Also, would you pay 3% on your new home to protect your family? How much are you gonna oh my gosh, I can't tell you how much we've spent doctor bills trying to figure out what was wrong with us before we lost our home. So that three to five percent is is an increase. There's no way to hide that. But you're getting more value than you're paying for.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

Yeah. Sometimes as humans, we just don't value something until we lose it, and health is certainly an aspect of that. I mean, I'm not I mean, there's lots of health conditions people have. I mean, a lot of people have sore back, but I'm not not thinking about my back because it's not sore, but a person with a sore back, they're thinking about it every second of the day because it's it's it's such a pain point. So you obviously had that from the mold perspective. Um, but uh some people just won't see it until it, you know, they've it's hurt them in uh a costly way uh in in some in some regards. Is there is there with the mold that you experienced, was it visible or it sounds like you weren't really aware to until you did some really thorough testing? Is that right?

SPEAKER_04 24:32

That's right. So no, we didn't we didn't see it readily in our house. Um we had to find it. However, it it was certainly transferring in our home. So there was a few spots that we found it very prominent. Um one was in our HVAC system. Um we had an unconditioned attic, and that thing was full. I've got video of it, and it it it looks like a petri dish. It's gross. The problem with that is that's distributing these mold spores and mycotoxins all over our house, everywhere, because that's what a that's what a air conditioning system does. Our heating system, it distributes conditioned air. Um, so all of those particles were going everywhere. Um, another spot was um under the windows in the wall is is a is another spot because um what we found, and and I'll say to anybody listening, congratulations if you water test your windows when you install them. I can't believe how many people don't. That is the the best time to make sure windows don't leak is when when you're framing a house, you install the windows, you you seal them up the way you have to for warranty, and then get a water hose and try to make them leak. It's so easy to do when you're in framing and it's almost free. Um, and it's super easy to fix. Um when when you're in that phase. Well, our windows, one, were not sealed well before the siding was put on, but also the quality of the windows is what I what I would consider a lumberyard window. I I that's probably tacky, but a low-grade window. They weren't very nice. Um, and they actually had aluminum frames and they sweat a lot when you get the temperature difference, and that sweat would run down and and sit on the windowsill and then find its way into the wall cavity. Um, so underneath windows and around windows was another big source. Um we we found um in poorly built shower pans um that were tile showers that um didn't have a very rigorous build-out process and a waterproofing process with kind of a dual a dual layer uh waterproofing that allows moisture to escape properly. Um and in fact, most tiles are installed with grout that is not uh waterproof. Um and so that water just goes right through that grout and gets behind the tile. And so those were some big areas that we found it. Um but we also did some other testing and found mold in other areas that was almost invisible, but it was some of the more toxic mold. Um it's it's white and almost impossible to see unless you shine a flashlight sideways across it and see it sticking up just a little. So it's very, very hard to find. Um it was widespread enough in our home that that it was just there was there was no way to guarantee we could remediate it.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

Yeah. Yeah, and they the impact of the just uh is your health how's your health of your wife? Is it sort of recovering or is things on the on the tracking? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:57

Yeah. So there are certain there are very specific ways to detox from mold exposure. And uh mold, mold exposure will mimic some other diseases. And and I can tell you story after story after story of people that were diagnosed with MS or diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis um or multiple other things, uh learning disabilities and so forth. And when they found that mold was in their environment and they detoxed from it, it went away. It was not MS, it was mold toxicity. Um, but mold can also be a silent killer in the fact that it mimics aging. So some people just say, Well, I'm getting old, I've got a sore back, I've got um I'm gaining some weight, um, my eyes aren't working as well as they used to, I can't remember things, I can't think of words. Um, all of those things, yeah. Do those things happen when you get older? Yes. Should they happen as fast as they're happening? No. And most of that is mold toxicity. I can't say most of it. A high percentage of people that are dealing with that probably should look at their environment and say, Am I just getting old or am I breathing this in all the time? Is it getting in through my skin all the time? And and if they will be real with themselves, and it it can be scary because when you find it, now you got to do something about it. Um it can be a scary journey, but I can tell you from the other side of it, it's very rewarding. Um kids are, I would say, a hundred percent recovered. Um my daughter was old enough to learn to read, and she just couldn't learn to read. Well, kids are very resilient. Within three months of getting out of that home, she learned to read just like that fast.

SPEAKER_03 29:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:52

Just things like that. Um, I couldn't think of words to carry on a sentence because it and it's called brain fog, but it's a real frustrating thing, um, especially when you're trying to uh put together and present a multi-million dollar home package to a client and you can't even think of the word, you know. That's um, but but yes, I would say that myself and my kids are a hundred percent um recovered from that now. And my wife is getting really close to that. She's got some other health struggles that magnified it for her. Um, but she's she's a lot better than she was.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

Yeah, fantastic. That's really good to hear. And that the um, as you say, so you've built the the new place um to the to much higher standard. How do you getting back to the the piece of explaining that from a marketing standpoint? How do you go about building the trust in the value of what you're providing with the additional healthy homes um philosophy so they understand what it is? So they do choose your service as opposed to the next person who's not doing that and comes in obviously at uh a little bit cheaper uh in that initial build phase. Sure.

SPEAKER_04 31:05

No, that's that's tough. Um I think it starts with understanding that every client that wants to build a new home is not my client. And I've got I've got to target clients that value what we offer. Um now we offer high performance, healthy construction, but we also offer elite luxury custom homes. You know, our our median home price is is 2.7 million. You know, they're large homes, they're beautiful homes. However, we've got some smaller ones going because they're very, very um focused on health. And they say uh they come in and they say, I can't do the two million dollar home, but here's what I can do. But I want to make sure that you build it because you understand how to make my family safe in this home. Um so that that it's kind of working itself out. Our company, we've we've got five project managers, um, and we're medial size uh custom home builder, if you will. We build uh eight to ten homes a year depending on their size. Um so I don't I don't need all the clients, I just need the right ones, but our marketing is very pointed. Um, you can look at our website um on there. It's it's it's uh leonardcrafted homes.com and I'll drop it in the notes here. But uh that website has lots of video content of of me explaining in homes what makes them high performance, what makes them safe. Um but really and truly, when we send out our marketing, we have a very pointed person that we're targeting, and and that person is receiving the message.

SPEAKER_00 32:51

Yeah, I love it. When you're really niche into something specific and a service offering that might be a little bit unique in the world and comes at a higher cost, but you when you're niche, you're not compatting it out with everybody else because you're providing something distinct. Uh I'm a marketing guy, so I love it when there's a company that's got a specific and unique niche because all of a sudden they're not um competing on price alone, they're um providing value. So it's a really dangerous and uh slippery slope if uh if you're a business as a builder, custom home builder, if you've got no point of difference, you know, it you'll all of a sudden be racing, competing on price, and that's a race to the bottom. And um, you know, a lot of builders in our in our area, and I think it's a global kind of thing. We we've had a lot of build builders go out of business. You know, you can imagine halfway through homes, and these are some of the big volume builders here in Australia, went out of business, so all these houses half built, and then all of a sudden the the the poor people who um you know invested a bunch of money on their dream home and then it's not done. Well, these are people these are companies typically that were competing on price, and so that's a that's just a dangerous if if something goes a little out of uh alignment, you know, you're not making enough on the job, materials go up. If you're locked into a fixed cost uh build, well then you're making a loss. And if you multiply that out by however many homes you're building, that's kind of what happened here. So I love what you're doing from when you've got a really cool, strong belief of what's important in a home, as you have, because you've lived a s a story and you may you've made that part of your marketing message, you're providing value. That's a wonderful space to be in. So well done, Craig, on on your work. Um, as you mentioned, you've got the website. So if people want to reach out, what was it again?

SPEAKER_04 34:39

Uh it's uh LeonardcraftedHomes.com, and Leonard is L-E-N-A-R-D.

SPEAKER_02 34:47

Awesome.

SPEAKER_04 34:48

So yeah, we've got Facebook, Instagram, um, we've got all the the social media's active, so you can catch us on there as well.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

Yeah, certainly. So I'll put that in the show notes, and I would encourage all the um listeners, even if they're in different parts of the world, you can they can obviously follow you on the social media uh platforms to see what you're up to as well. But obviously, if someone's local to you, hopefully uh they can reach out and and and uh make an inquiry as well. Thanks so much, Craig. It's been awesome. Uh thanks for being on the podcast.

SPEAKER_04 35:19

Thank you for inviting me. It's been my pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

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