Elevate The Hustle

Most People Sell Their Time Cheap. He Never Did | Neil Krauter

• Elevate Teams • Season 1 • Episode 19

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In Episode 20 of Elevate The Hustle, hosts Stanley Meytin and Dom Piccirillo sit down with Neil Krauter to unpack a career that started with peanut brittle sales records and a keg party that changed everything, leading to a $40 million book of business, a firm built from scratch, and adventures that would make most people's heads spin.

At 18, Neil made a decision: retire by 40. What followed was a masterclass in specialization, relationship capital, and knowing exactly what your time is worth.

Episode Highlights:

  • How calling a managing director a f***ing a**hole in a boardroom accidentally launched his entire career niche.
  • Why he never does RFPs, and what that says about how the best in the business value their time.
  • The day he signed a five-year personal lease on half a floor in Midtown Manhattan with zero clients and zero employees.
  • How he grew a firm to 186 private equity fund clients, sold it, and never stopped grinding.

Whether you're just starting out or already building something, this episode will show you what it looks like to never give your time away cheap.

Subscribe, drop a comment, and share this with someone who needs to hear it.


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✅ Connect with us

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Stan’s LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/stanleymeytin

Dom’s LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/dominicpiccirillo

Neil Krauter: nkrauter@krauergroup.com



Real talk, real stories, and occasionally real bad language.


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SPEAKER_01

I walked into the Fox News building on 48th and 6th. I leased half the 29th floor, big ass building, leased half the 29th floor for five years on a personal guarantee.

SPEAKER_00

Nice. Let's go, Neil. Let's go. I love it.

SPEAKER_01

I had no I had no employees and I had no clients. 13 years later, that business had grown to a 186 private equity funds as clients and uh sold it to risk strategies. Um and it was a big success for us.

SPEAKER_02

Elevate the hustle. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Welcome to Elevate the Hustle, where we break down what it actually means to build teams, scale companies, and lead with intensity. I'm your host, Stanley Mayton. I'm Don Picherillo. And we have another special guest with us today. Rumor has it, at 18 years old, he said, I'm going to retire by the age of 40 and open up a wine store. Neil, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01

How's that wine business?

SPEAKER_04

How's the wine business, Neil? You still got the wine business?

SPEAKER_01

No, I I did do it. Uh I had to run my life uh and organize myself to be able to do that, which uh, you know, starting at age 18, it seemed like a good idea. But uh I did buy the wine store. I must admit, it took me two years after retiring from Aeon. Uh, but I I had it for about four or five years. It was a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_04

Okay. Well, let's backtrack all the way. Most people at 18 are, you know, trying to figure out how do I buy maybe a little bit of pot? How do I graduate high school? Uh maybe take my girlfriend on a date. They're they're not setting these big goals of retiring by 40.

SPEAKER_01

Uh, I was at a friend's house uh and the dad had bought a bunch of us a keg. Uh so we were hanging around the keg and he was there. And uh he had retired early. He had retired at about the age of 40. And you know, I'd see him at the beach club. He would have just played tennis, he goes to the club and has a little bit of lunch, takes a nap, maybe he goes and plays golf or whatever. And then I look at the rest of the dads, including my own, who were getting off the train at 7 o'clock at night, dog tired, home at 7:30, have a cocktail, have a quick dinner, and then up again at 6 to go back to New York City. And I I may not have been the smartest bulb in the pack at age 18, but when I look at the guy at the club and the guys getting off the train, dog tired, I was like, I I think Mr. Coe's got this right. Uh, I want to retire at age 40. So it seemed like a good idea, but then you had to organize yourself to make that a possibility.

SPEAKER_04

So do you go, do you go to dad and and say, hey, what's your secret? Tell break it down for me. What do I have to do?

SPEAKER_01

Um, I didn't ask him too many questions, uh, but you kind of have to figure this part out yourself, right? Well, what worked for him was probably not gonna work for me. And he was in financial services. Uh he made a bunch of money and he was able to retire. I think it was that simple.

SPEAKER_02

So all you have to do is make a bunch of money, that's it.

SPEAKER_01

Well, he you gotta make enough money, you gotta save enough money, you gotta run your life so that you can do it.

SPEAKER_04

Uh and you know, it was a it was a uh it was a guiding light. Okay. And is that the point you decide that you're gonna get addicted to adventure, start climbing mountains, and also go into the insurance industry all the same time?

SPEAKER_01

I was already in the insurance industry. So I I I started uh you know while I was in college at Marsh, and uh it but after I retired, uh actually most of the crazy adventures happened slightly around the time that I restarted, came came back in the business, uh, and I started my own firm, uh, which was either the smartest thing I've done or the dumbest thing I've done. It depends on on your perspective.

SPEAKER_04

We're we're gonna find out right here at Elevate the Hustle. We're gonna break it all down.

SPEAKER_01

Uh so yeah, I started, you know, I I was getting up up to you know the late 40s, and I thought there's a lot of stuff that I probably won't be able to do in 10 years. Uh why don't I go do some things now to challenge myself?

SPEAKER_04

Okay. So let's let's backtrack a little bit. You're 18 years old, you're working on Marsh, you are in the insurance industry. Walk us a little bit through the career path.

SPEAKER_02

Actually, let's back it up a little bit more because there's some interesting stuff for in earlier days. Uh last time we spoke, Neil, you mentioned that I think you had a house painting business when you were a teenager or maybe even yeah, high school. Can you uh can you walk us through that a little bit? Like how you got started in that entrepreneurial journey and and uh what it took to take that venture off the ground.

SPEAKER_01

So I I liked money as a as a youngster, uh and I had no problems dealing with adults. So a bunny of mine and I would go around and do odd jobs for people. Uh one thing we realized very quickly, older guys don't like to get on ladders when they've reached a certain age and a certain wealth. Everybody's gutters get filled with leaves in the fall. You could charge whatever you wanted to clean somebody's gutters and and they would pay it. And there were times when you when you get up there on the roof and they didn't even realize that they had screens over the gutters. So you had to sit up there for a while and enjoy the view, and I still got tape. So uh I was always motivated as a kid. Uh I I sold Christmas cards door to door. I made stuff. I when I was about 10 or 11 for Christmas, I asked for a gas-powered leaf blower so I could, you know, clean yards. And uh it was just something to do and make money.

SPEAKER_04

So is mom and mom and dad supportive? You're like 10, 11 years old, gas blown knocking on doors. Let's go, son. Let's get it going.

SPEAKER_01

Or they're like, they they didn't like the painting business uh very much because we yeah, we were using butane torches, propane torches to burn off some of the paint. Uh we did catch one house on fire. So did you have insurance? Of course not.

SPEAKER_02

No, that's how you got into insurance industry.

SPEAKER_01

So uh no, it was a it was a small fire. Uh it was a really old house, and back in the old days, they used to insulate pipes with newspaper. Uh that was all they had. Uh and as we were burning the paint off the house, a little spark went behind there. We we put it out before the fire department came. But the fire department came. That was pretty exciting.

SPEAKER_04

I'm sure the people whose house knew were paid thrilled.

SPEAKER_01

Uh it was a little we we were paid in full. That's all I'll said. But uh no, just the the house painting business was great. Uh, I was telling Dom about it earlier, and uh you know, I was down on the Jersey shore, and you know, if it was a great day and the waves were were were perfect, you may have spent three hours three hours at lunch, you know, surfing or body surfing. Uh do you want more sun that day? You paint on the sunny side of the house. Uh it was pretty good, it was all cash, and we were making a fortune. Uh, it was fun and worked our asses off, but we made a lot of money until my dad said, Hey, you need to get a resume, you need to start building something for college and and for business, and uh it's it's time for you to to get a job, a real job. So buzzkill.

SPEAKER_04

Buzzkill. But you know what? My probably one of my favorite questions is do you think entrepreneurship is taught? Do you think it's in your DNA? Like, in your mind what what do you think it is? I mean, you were hustling at 10 years old with a leaf blower. I mean, that that's that's that's impressive.

SPEAKER_01

I I think it comes it comes down to winning. I'm not sure it's entrepreneurialism or as anything more than do you want to win? Winning feels good. You take it whether you're you're it's on the soccer field or the baseball field or the football field or you know, out making money uh after school. It was it was winning. And uh that that high was something that really resonated with me. So it still does today.

SPEAKER_04

I I I absolutely flap it up for Neil. I absolutely love that answer because you're right. We just want to win, right? Like, like that's all it really comes down to. That's why we want, you know, to raise great kids, and that's why we want to build great businesses. We just want to win, right? And we don't really even know sometimes we don't even really even know what the scoreboard is or what that actually means, but feels good. It sure does. So, okay, that says time to go get a real job, start building. How do you get how do you get into insurance? And tell us a little bit about the insurance journey.

SPEAKER_01

Well, my dad was a risk manager at WR Grace. So he uh he put the arm on his broker and said, Hey, how about an internship for uh for my my idiot son? And I, you know, I what I really liked about it, I started in the in the property group and uh was handling working on you know the most junior junior grunt on the AT ⁇ T account. And what I really liked about it was if you could talk an underwriter into doing something, it was a done, it was done. You shook hands, and and some of a minor amount of paper went back and forth after that. There weren't regulations on what could be done, how it had to be done. It was the wild west of unregulated trust and deal flow. Um, there were probably a lot more laws and rules that I didn't even know about, but hey, if I could talk somebody to doing it for a 10-cent rate, and the previous guy said the best rate was 12 cents, and I could do 10, that felt pretty good. Uh so it was just it was selling on a different level. Same thing as going door to door and banging on it and saying, hey, you got leaves all over your lawn or leaves in your gutters or your snow on your uh on your driveway. Okay, my uh my start to college was uh less than perfect. Uh Franklin and Marshall had mid-semester grades just for freshmen, just your first semester, just as a way to say, hey, you know, here's how you're doing. Uh my was a one point something.

SPEAKER_03

Zero point zero. Well no, it wasn't quite animal house.

SPEAKER_02

He had he had a couple D's.

SPEAKER_01

He had a couple D's in zero point zero. It was not Animal House, so it was slightly better. But uh there was a a flat out F. Uh there was a D minus only because I think they felt sorry for me. And uh it would, it was, it was pretty rough. Uh so my parents and the dean decided I was no longer gonna be playing on the uh varsity uh soccer team, and I had to I had to get my act together. Um so as as that came about, uh I ended up graduating early. I I pulled it together, uh, took some advanced courses, got got my my GPA where it needed to be, and I ended up graduating a semester early after that start, which was not easy to do.

SPEAKER_02

So, Neil, I understand that once upon a time you were a Cub Scout and you used to sell peanut brittle. Did I get that right?

SPEAKER_01

Uh that rumor is true. Uh so uh I learned a valuable lesson in marketing and sales.

SPEAKER_04

Uh wait, I I'm sorry, I got on. How old were you? How old were you as a cup scout?

SPEAKER_01

Uh I think I was about nine. Nine, okay. Let's keep it going. So uh you know the the Cub Scouts in our town for fundraising would sell these cans of peanut brittle for a dollar. And you know, every kid was given six cans and expected to, you know, come back with six bucks. Well, I went back the next day and said I sold all six, you know, can I have like two or three cases to sell? And so sure enough, I I I did, and I broke some some records supposedly, and they they didn't have a prize big enough. So I just got like some kind of FM radio, which which was okay. Well, the next year I blew that out by a factor of like two or three, and I supposedly broke some national record. But what I realized was every kid in town had his Cub Scout uniform on and was going around door to door selling peanut brittle. And the same houses would get knocked on when the doorbell would ring. All I went two towns over. There was nobody selling peanut brittle two towns over. The the the people whose doors I was banging on didn't know I lived in in two towns over. I was killing it. Uh my dad, who was a pretty good sport, would uh start off with I think there was 12 cans in a case. He'd he'd take me to some subdivision, meet me at the at the at the other end, I'd walk down, I'd sell all 12. I was I was going through cases and cases. Uh so I learned a valuable lesson. One, market penetration. Go someplace where everybody else isn't selling the same thing, and you'll kill it. Uh, I did have one negative experience doing this. Uh my mom was gonna go to the grocery store, and I decided I would set up shop outside the grocery store with a table, and when people came out, I'd offer them Peter Pur. Yeah, sales were pretty good. That wasn't blow away, but it was good. The uh the store manager came out and said, Hey, you you gotta get out of here. You can't do this. And I said, At nine years old, I don't think you realize what you're doing. Do you really want to be seen throwing a nine-year-old out in a Cumb Scout uniform from selling PTPO for charity? I will decimate your business. So he gets blown away. Pretty soon a bunch of moms were standing around me and he's like, Well, look, everything's great. I said, No, no, no, no, no, no. You've got to buy a case and bring it back into the store and sell it. At nine years old.

SPEAKER_04

So I have two questions. My first question is nobody in like the town like, holy shit, this kid is this kid is who I want to hire?

SPEAKER_01

I was only nine. I was too young to hire. I didn't have work papers, but they they uh they gave me a 10-speed bike for uh for the for the sales contest.

SPEAKER_02

So it's better than the FM radio.

SPEAKER_04

Better than the better than the FM radio. So how have you used that experience, right? Like that marketing lesson in your career in insurance.

SPEAKER_01

I I think look, insurance, if you're trying to sell commodity products, it's crowded, right? It's it's it's it's filled with Cub Scouts in town with the same product selling the same thing. Your market penetration is only going to go so far. Go someplace else where it's it's not sold, or sell things that are not sold. And you have to differentiate yourself. And the best way to do that, quite frankly, is specialization. But go where there's no competition, go where the competition is is not going to offer that same thing, and then you're not a commodity that's being sold on price alone. That's how you can differentiate yourself.

SPEAKER_02

So for you in insurance, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you were writing a lot of um like private equity DNO early in like relatively early private equity days. So presumably there weren't a lot of brokers that were you know going after those businesses and and providing those types of products. Like what made you what made you select that niche? And like how did you decide like you wanted to go all in on that particular facet of the business?

SPEAKER_01

Um pure dumb luck. That's usually the best way. So tell us more, Neil. Tell us more. It wasn't a grand plan. Uh so uh I handled ATT, as I said, that's where I started my summers at Marsh. But eventually the risk manager of ATT was retiring, and uh an old timer at Marsh said, Hey Neil, if you don't get off the account now, you'll never get off it. So this is your chance. So I went to management and said, I'd I'd like to get off the account and do something else. And they said no three times, and then I said I'm leaving. Um a private equity firm by the name of Clayton and Duvalier had, and Martin Dubalier was the real patriarch there. And he had said to Marsh, hey, look, he's basically thrown off three people in a row, and they said, This is your last chance. Give me somebody that you know knows what they're doing. Now, nobody knew what they were doing back then. This was this was the it wasn't even private equity dom, it was leverage buyouts. Right. The word private equity was never even said. So I did my first due diligence report uh in 1986 for a transaction. That's crazy. And a bunch of uh there were three overweight, gray-haired guys like myself who went with me over to present this report. They hadn't read it, they didn't know anything about it, but they were managing directors, so they they went. Martin Duvalier as before I even had a chance to say a word, he's flipping through the report as the other guys are talking a little bit. He goes right to the end, takes it, goes, This is a bunch of shit, throws it over my head. I'm like, what the hell? So the three managing directors, Mr. Doubleair, Mr. Doubleair, just give us one more chance. We're we're sorry. Uh, you know, give us one more chance, we'll get this right. And he looks at me and he goes, You haven't said anything. I said, Yeah, that's right. I want to know what you're thinking. I said, obviously you don't. This threw my friggin' report right over my head. He goes, No, I want to know what you're thinking. I said, No, you don't. He goes, I'm asking you what you're thinking. And I told him, I don't know how much of a family show this is. No, not a family show.

SPEAKER_03

Let her rip, let her rip.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, go for it. I told him he was being a fucking asshole. The three managing directors freak out. Mr. Dublier, Mr. Dubler, we'll have him fired. Doubleir goes, you three, out. Neil, stay. Now that warm feeling I had running down my leg, I don't think was filled coffee. I'm like, oh, I I I'm clearly fired. Uh and Martin goes, Hey Neil, uh what do you know about leverage buyouts? I said, I read up on it all I could, but there wasn't much there. And he goes, Well, I'll tell you what, every time I deal with insurance, I feel like I'm getting screwed because I don't know anything about it. Because if I teach you leverage buyouts, will you teach me insurance? I did every deal for him for the next 13 years. Wow. Wow. And when Teddy Thorson said, hey, we're getting screwed on insurance, call Neil. When Henry Cravis said, we're getting screwed on insurance, call Neil. Back then there were only a dozen private equity firms looking to buy it.

SPEAKER_02

So my brother works at KKR now, actually.

SPEAKER_01

So uh it was timing, being in the right place at the right time, and most importantly, reading a room. Uh, because if I got that wrong, you wouldn't be talking about me. I'd be sweeping up behind you in the studio.

SPEAKER_04

I I I I don't know about that. I'll I'm I'm I'm uh I'm you knew what you were doing, right? Like like there's a proven tracker record there. The guy, the manager of the supermarket is giving you shit, and you're like, no, do you know who I am at nine years old? Like, you don't take shit from people. You gotta give yourself a little more credit.

SPEAKER_03

You didn't take shit from somebody like that.

SPEAKER_01

I think if if people respect if you stand up to them at the right time in the right way, um, if you've got a countering point of view, then say it. I mean, uh, you know, private equity firms, uh leverage bio firms, they were they were misunderstood, and the insurance industry did not treat them well. And because they were misunderstood, they they had to listen and they had to evolve. Uh so it was it was a great partnership. Uh he did so much for my career, I can't tell you. Uh yeah. So he he was a great man.

SPEAKER_04

So were you there until you until you retired at 40?

SPEAKER_01

Is that is that I did every deal. I did every deal for for them uh from 1986 to 2000 when I when I retired.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

What what brought the retirement? Why did why did you well I think you jumped, didn't you jump to Aeon some somewhere in the middle there?

SPEAKER_01

Well, uh so I was uh yeah, I I went from uh Marsh to what became Aeon. Uh so I was at Aeon, uh no, so I was at Marsh when I did the uh when I had my report thrown over my head. And then I uh I left and went to Aeon. Um I had won an account and it was, I don't know, I guess the odds were against us, but but we won the account. And the the head of the office at Frank B. Hall called up and said, Hey, look, you know, I know you must have made a lot of money by winning that account. I had no idea what he was talking about. I didn't know that the producers got paid by you know a percentage of what they brought in. I was complete neophyte. I I was just faking it. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. I had no idea. But he offered me a job.

SPEAKER_02

You were you're you're not even a producer right now when you I was I was just an accounting executive.

SPEAKER_01

It was like a a piece of IT ITT back in 1988, which was worth 250 grand. So yeah, I produced a$250,000 account, but my bonus was like a couple thousand bucks. I didn't get paid for the production. Oh, I didn't know any better.

SPEAKER_02

So so Marsh is clearly underpaying you here. And and Frank B.

SPEAKER_01

I was making uh I think I was making eighty thousand dollars a year and a couple thousand dollar bonus.

SPEAKER_02

So but you but you just brought in a$250,000 account, which basically paid your entire well and I was handling all of ATT.

SPEAKER_01

So yeah, I think they were getting their money for it.

SPEAKER_02

So how do you make the jump to Hall? And I'm assuming Hall gets bought by Aeon somewhere along the road there. Exactly right.

SPEAKER_01

Uh they I I went to see this guy, the head of their office, and he started talking about numbers, and I literally went home that night and said, I don't even understand what I was just offered, but I think it's this. And if it's that, I I have to go. It's it's it's mind-bogglingly good. Uh and I left and you know, I I was so low I didn't have any non-competes or non-solicits. So a bunch of business followed me, and that sort of sent me out of my way.

SPEAKER_04

Wow. What what do you what do you think your biggest edge was? Was in your you know, 20 plus year career. What what why do you think the business followed you? Why do you why why do you think you were able to win accounts?

SPEAKER_01

I I think responsive this is insurance, all right? We're not opening the cranium, we're not splitting the atom. All right. So responsiveness, attentiveness, and having a reasonable head on your shoulders, you're gonna be way above the industry. So I if you return every email in 10 minutes when it's sent, you're gonna be a phenomenal success in this business.

SPEAKER_04

You make it sound so easy. I'm about I'm about to get into the insurance game.

SPEAKER_01

You should then. I think even you could be a success.

SPEAKER_04

I don't know about that. I have bad attention to detail.

SPEAKER_02

But I do reply quickly when necessary. And you can hire people to solve for the attention to detail. It's okay.

SPEAKER_04

So for okay, so you 2000, you you you hang up your cleats. What happens next? What what's going through your mind?

SPEAKER_01

You're like oh I what's going through my mind is you know, I'm never going back to work again and I'm enjoying the wine store and not working.

SPEAKER_02

Are you like a wine enthusiast? Are you what kind of wine are you into? I I have a lot of questions about the wine.

SPEAKER_01

Uh the first thing is I I thought I knew a fair amount about wine. My dad was into it. Uh but when you buy a wine store, you realize how little you actually know. Because people will say, hey, I just came back from South America and I had these these two varietals. What do you know about them? Like, I don't know that much about South African wine. Um you realize what what you don't know. Um I'm a white burgundy guy. That's that's my uh that's my weakness.

SPEAKER_02

LaFleve?

SPEAKER_04

Is that how you say it?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, LaFleve.

SPEAKER_04

Uh, here comes the geek out on the wine. Here we go. Let's bring the expensive wine list. Come on. You gotta get the reserve list.

SPEAKER_01

But it but what what happened after uh after the wine store, or even before I sold the wine store, uh Elliot Spitzer. Elliot Spitzer, well, he uh I don't know why, but he couldn't. Before his personal traumas transgressions. Uh he he went after the insurance brokerage world. He probably went after Hank Greenberg and then he went after Hank Sons. Yeah. So he went after Marsh for bid rigging and taking contingencies and all these other horrible things. Uh by the way, if you'd given me 20 brokerage firms to pick from and set who's bid rigging, I would have gone through 19 guesses and I would have had Marsh left on my. They were the white shoe firm, I would never have guessed that. Secondally, contingencies and overrides and profit sharing, it was in every broker's annual report. It wasn't a thing, but he made it a thing to the public, and it it just morphed into something that really shouldn't have been. But uh a lot of the brokers were in trouble. Uh their stock prices were way down. I got asked to come back and and and help run Marsh uh and Aeon asked me to come back. Frank Bristol asked me to come run the firm to Lockton sent their plane, uh, you know, come out to Lock, you know, Kansas City and interview. I listened to a lot of the a lot of their pitches. They were all in a bit of trouble. And I asked a lot of my private equity clients what I should do. They were all friends, and they were all said, you know what? Go put your name on the door, do it right. That's what we did. We had great jobs at Drexel or Kidder or Goldman Sachs, and we put our name on the door and did it right. And Neil, we think you're good. We will back you uh financially. Wow. Well, if you hear that enough times, I decided I'm not gonna take any of their money. I walked into the Fox News building on 48th and 6th. I leased half the 29th floor, big ass building, at least half the 29th floor for five years on a personal guarantee.

SPEAKER_00

Nice! Let's go, Neil. Let's go, I love it.

SPEAKER_01

I had no I had no employees and I had no clients.

SPEAKER_02

For those of you listening that don't know like that part of New York, that is one of, if not the most expensive office real estate at that time in New York City, fetching crazy rents. I won't disclose dollars for your benefit, Neil. But like the top of the top with respect to New York real estate.

SPEAKER_04

This guy's the king of peanut brittle. I mean, there's no re way he could fail. Are you kidding me? 100%. I'm betting on you too.

SPEAKER_01

If if you're gonna compete against Aeon and Marsh as a startup, you gotta look like you know, you you're substantial. You you can't be in a you know, in a class C office building, you know, mid-block, no view. Can't have it. Yep. So it it had it had to be uh it had to be a thing.

SPEAKER_04

Above a Chinese restaurant somewhere.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, with a with the smells coming up. But uh 13 years later, that business had grown to uh 186 private equity funds as clients and uh sold it to Risk Strategies. Um and it was a big success for us.

SPEAKER_04

How how how many people did you have uh at that point when when you exited? I think we probably had just under seven.

SPEAKER_02

That's a really good business. Yeah, and so we were uh what drove the decision to sell? Why sell? Why then? Like it's a great question.

SPEAKER_01

I I'd gotten to the point where you know uh one of the one of the the comfort points, Dom, was when when you get to two of everything. And what I mean by that is if you got a great DNO guy or gal, but then she she leaves, you're fruit. But when you've got two DNO or or more, hey, somebody leaves, you're still functioning. Right. So once it got to have two of everything, there was a a real a relaxation and a focus on on really growing the business. But I got to the point where we were financial success, but I also looked at the technology that we were gonna have to invest in and the cyber protocols, and it was just gonna be so heavy to get to the next level uh uh technology-wise. We we didn't have the balance sheet to pay for that. We could have, but we would have been wiping, we would have been spending two years of annual profit on technology. Right. Um, and you probably had to do that once every five years anyway. So it just seemed like a good idea to you know to sell. So and prices, and prices were the prices, right?

SPEAKER_04

The money was good, the money was good. You gotta take the money.

SPEAKER_01

I I I thought prices were at a peak. They did go higher, but uh, so I was wrong on that one, Stan. But uh it seemed like a good idea to talk, and I and I really liked the folks that I was selling to. Um Mike Christian and John Baglica. Uh, I've known Mike and competed against Mike for years. Uh very classy guy. Um and Kelso owned the firm, um, old line private equity firm. Uh again, very white shoe. I was selling to good good good people.

SPEAKER_04

Um, so Neil, we have a lot of people that you know watch and listen to the show that whether whether they're starting out in the insurance business or maybe they're starting out in other businesses as well. What what's the biggest advice you could give them? Like, you know, you went in, obviously, like by the way, I'm all about your mentality. Go big or go home. So kudos to you. Uh, but most people are like, you know, I'm just gonna go and like start out on my own and then maybe hire somebody. Like, what's the biggest advice you could give them from all the business lessons you learned uh being a successful entrepreneur and a successful insurance agency owner?

SPEAKER_01

No doubt about it. Number one is specialization. Uh being a generalist is not gonna get you very far. Uh relationships are great, but if if you know more, I'll I'll I've never produced a dry cleaning business in my life, but I've I've used this example of some some educational stuff that I've done for people. Everybody has a dry cleaner. Well, maybe Stan doesn't. He only wears t-shirts, but most of the time.

SPEAKER_04

I do I do only wear t-shirts. That is correct.

SPEAKER_02

Stan just bought a blazer for the first time last year.

SPEAKER_04

I don't own a suit, Neil. This is the true story, but I I get your point. Well, I'm I'm following.

SPEAKER_02

Well, hey Dom, was it used or it was uh Caraco, Caraco suit? No, it wasn't Caraco, like a sacks off Fifth Avenue, right? Five shirts, five times.

SPEAKER_01

It was spelled SAX, though. Yes. So if everybody everybody uses dry cleaning, there's there's one on every corner, but how do you produce how do you how do you end up with all of the dry cleaners as as as a uh as a base of a client? Well, you have to know everything about the chemicals they use. You have to know about the laws of what happens when somebody leaves something there or the or the or the garment gets ruined or it gets left there for two years, and then you know, you've got to know everything about that business. And you could be a great insurance broker and say, hey, I can do you know OLT insurance on that location. But you know what? If you don't know everything about what that business owner has to go through, the regulations, the environmental aspects, what market writes it, every policy form. You know how many brokers are selling insurance and they've never read the policy forms of all the competitors?

SPEAKER_03

I'd say 95%.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. A lot. So be a student of one aspect, dive in really, really deep. And then when you go to you know, pitch that that next dry cleaner down the street, you'll know more than everybody else. You'll be an authority on it. And people want to trust you with the insurance and and risk management functions for them as a client. They want to go with an expert. So specialization is absolutely key.

SPEAKER_04

Um we agree. I I love that advice. I mean, that's that's why we start Elevate Teams, right? We we provide you know virtual assistance exclusively for the insurance brokers. And we Dom obviously is a success case study of somebody that owned an insurance business, utilized virtual assistance to scale it. And you know, I owned a production company before, and I was a generalist, right? So I would go up, you know, against sale, like I would go pitch a product to Salesforce, and they'll be like, So show us, you know, what you did for HubStack uh HubSpot or Zoho, and I'll be like, we only want to talk to somebody that's done our competitors, and it's like that that doesn't really make sense to me, but fine, but it it does make sense from uh I think also you know building a really good reference list is key.

SPEAKER_01

Um I will I will say this don't never do an RFP. I love that. And I'll tell you what, most most brokers do RFPs. Uh we don't. Uh the very best don't have time to do an RFP. So if a client wants the very best and and they're they've got six brokers that have time to participate in an RFP with a very low chance of winning, you're not getting the very best that there is. Um I agree with Doc. Your time is your biggest asset. It's what you sell. You sell time and advice. I can make up more advice, I can't make up more time. Uh so time management, not doing RFPs. Uh I never give away a product for free. Uh when I get invited to an RFP, I say, Well, how much are you paying? And they look at you like, what are you talking about? Like, well, what am I getting paid to do the RFP? Well, nothing. You have a chance to win the business. Okay, so let me make sure I understand this. You want all my intellectual capital, all my ideas, and then you'll let me know if I win. And then we'll you we'll negotiate on how much I get paid. Um, all right, let's let's use another analogy. Uh, I'm gonna go to the four best tax firms in New York City and say, here, do my taxes, and then I'll decide who I'm gonna choose.

SPEAKER_04

Who saves me the most amount of money?

SPEAKER_01

And then I'll decide who much how much I'm gonna pay. None of them are going to say yes to that. So are we profess as insurance brokers, are we a professional services firm or not?

SPEAKER_04

I I agree. Neil, very important question. Uh, I'm gonna read some some of these things, right? Uh you jet skied from Canada to New York City, you jet ski from Bahamas to Key West, you try to jet ski from Nantucket to Bermuda. Uh Russian ice, you skied from a Russian ice station to the North Pole, you climb Kilimajaro. Uh, when did you have time to do all of those things? And what made you decide to have to start?

SPEAKER_01

Um it was uh you can't work all the time. I I love work and I, you know, I work seven days a week, but there's times when you have to sort of push yourself and challenge yourself in in other areas. Um and as I got older, I wanted, you know, I wasn't gonna be the fastest runner on the track. I wasn't gonna be, you know, but I I felt like I could still do some unique, challenging things that others hadn't done. Um and it just seemed like a good idea at the time. And there and there was alcohol involved.

SPEAKER_02

Alcohol times. Alcohol with the most. You got a little koozie on the side of the jet ski or what?

SPEAKER_01

So when we were going from uh the Bahamas to Key West, we got chased down by uh an 80-foot Coast Guard cutter with guns, and they actually boarded our jet skis searching for drugs, alcohol, and and uh ammunition. Uh fortunately they found none of those. But uh, when you're in the middle of the ocean getting boarded on a jet ski, it's a little bit neat.

SPEAKER_04

Well, Daniil, did anybody ever tell you that insurance is like the most safest thing in the world and you just decide to do like the most craziest shit out there?

SPEAKER_01

Is anybody ever is that is that like a insurance is about managing risk. And if you can go do all those things and still be alive to talk about it, then you must be do you must have managed the risk pretty well.

SPEAKER_02

You figured it out.

SPEAKER_01

I like it.

SPEAKER_04

What what what are you currently working on? You're still working, you're still grinding in the insurance space?

SPEAKER_01

Uh seven days a week. I've got a$40 million book of business still. Um I produced over 10 million last year new. Uh I'm out there banging and I I love that stuff. I totally love it. And we're now owned by Brown and Brown, um, and they've been great to work for. And uh you know, fifth largest broker in the world. So some new tools in the shed, and uh you know, they're giving me a chance to uh to help run the firm and produce business. So I love it.

SPEAKER_02

What's next for you? Are you gonna stay there for a while? You're gonna keep doing these uh crazy mountain climbing trips. Like what's what's like your next big challenge?

SPEAKER_01

I don't know. Uh I turned 70 next year, and I think there'll be something in my 70th year. We'll have to have you we'll have to have you back to talk about it. Well, first I gotta live till 70. That's that's the first step. And then I gotta survive whatever I it is I do, but then I'd love to come back, Dom.

SPEAKER_04

I mean, just just don't do any crazy, crazy stuff for like, well, I guess you said you're gonna do something crazy.

SPEAKER_02

Don't go too crazy, Neil, right? Or at least manage the risk well. You gotta manage the risk.

SPEAKER_04

Um, all right, Neil. I I'm impressed. Uh, and I don't get impressed by anybody. Don will tell you. Uh let's get into my favorite part of the show where we get to learn a little bit more personal side of Neil called rapid fire. Neil, rapid fire time.

SPEAKER_03

Most expensive mistake you've ever made.

SPEAKER_01

It was a uh a stock trade that I learned I'm not a good stock investor and I'm a much better private equity investor. So it was a stock trade.

SPEAKER_02

What's the best bottle of wine you've ever had?

SPEAKER_01

1929 uh Hope Rion uh when I was uh a young I a young man, but my dad turned 40 and I hitchhiked into Red Bank, New Jersey, and when I probably had you know eleven dollars to me, and I said I I went to the store that he that he bought his wine at and I said, I want to buy a very special bottle. Uh it's my dad's 40th birthday. He goes, Well, how much money do you have? And I, you know, I looked like Dennis Semenais, like, you know, coins were falling out. There were there were marbles and uh baseball cards and bottle caps. And he goes, Okay. Um tell you what, uh, you know, you're you're 11 years old. I can't sell you this wine, but all I'll do is I'll drop a I'll drop the bottle off on your dad's birthday, and you know, it'll be wrapped up and you can give it to him. So my dad came home at night. We're opening up the presents. I give them the bottle of wine. He is rip shit mad. He thought I stole it. Because it was a very expensive bottle of wine. So what the shopkeeper had done was a total solid. He gave it he gifted it to you because your dad was a good customer. But the first reaction was my father thought that I shoplifted it. Uh, so he was mad. But uh that night or shortly thereafter, uh he he and I drank that bottle of wine. He probably had three quarters of it, I had a quarter of it, but it it was the finest bottle of wine I've ever had. That's that's an amazing.

SPEAKER_04

Having a few cocktails, I like it.

SPEAKER_02

It was it was the song was back then. Drinking age was like 14. You're good.

SPEAKER_01

I'm sure in some country it was.

SPEAKER_04

I think it is today still. Uh what's what's on the bucket list? Give us a bucket list item, whether it's a climb or a journey that you're planning. Where where are you going? What give us share one? I know you have a few.

SPEAKER_01

I still want to be the first person to uh take wave runners and jet skis from Nantucket through the North Atlantic. It's 600 miles through the North Atlantic to Bermuda. I I still want to do that, and I would say that might be the 70th bucket list, 70th year bucket list.

SPEAKER_02

Your hand's got a cramp, though. No, that's a long trip.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, it's it's it's brutal.

SPEAKER_04

It's brutal. Dude, I'm gonna let's give like 20 minutes. I'm like, when do we end?

SPEAKER_02

What's the dumbest thing happening happening in the insurance industry right now? I'll call it the dumbest smart thing.

SPEAKER_01

Um the the the team lists raids that are going on, I think are the dumbest thing in the industry. Uh you know, what when all of a sudden you can take a group of you know 50 or 100 people from one firm to another, pay them 25% more, and then give them upside, you know, stock options and grants. Uh I think I think the insurance marketplace in terms of compensation is relatively efficient. Somebody doesn't somebody isn't worth 25% more just because you're doing a team lift. Uh I think the the litigation that results of out of it is really misunderstood. When you're paying one or two times revenue and paying people 25% more, I have a hard time figuring out the math on that trade. Uh and I think it's I think it's great that people can leave and and go get another job someplace else. And if if if one person a month leaves, that's great. But if you want to take you know 12 people at the same time and they're gonna steal business, I don't know. I'm not sure that's how it's I I'm not overly religious, but the golden rule does make sense to me, and I wouldn't want that done to me.

SPEAKER_04

Neil, we appreciate your time. Tell us where people can find you if they want to get in touch with you and pay for an RFP because you ain't giving shit away for free. We know that. Uh tell us where people can find you and throw it in the description as well.

SPEAKER_01

If it's uh if it's a personal nature, it's uh n crowder, k-r-a-u-t-e-r at crowdergroup.com. And if it's a insurance-related uh brokeverage question, uh Neil.crowder Sr or senior at bbrown.com.

SPEAKER_04

Well, you heard it here all from the hustling at nine years old to uh building insurance empires. We really appreciate you coming on to elevate the hustle. I I learned a lot. I got I figured out I gotta go buy a suit and probably a few shirts now. But uh we thank you for your time. We hope you guys enjoyed today's episode, and we can't wait to see what Neil does next. Is he gonna make it all the way from Nantucket to Bermuda? That is the question.

SPEAKER_03

Stay tuned. Thanks, everybody. Thanks, everybody. Thank you.