EP18 - How to Give Better Feedback in Veterinary Teams

In this episode, we break down why feedback often feels awkward, how to set clear expectations with your staff, and what separates ineffective criticism from truly impactful communication.

You’ll learn practical strategies to improve your leadership skills, including the power of the 10-to-1 feedback ratio, common mistakes to avoid, and how modeling the right behavior can transform your clinic culture. Whether you're a practice owner, manager, or aspiring leader, this episode will help you build trust, improve team performance, and create a healthier workplace.

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Timestamps
00:00 Intro
02:30 Why Feedback is Uncomfortable
03:46 Setting Feedback Expectations
08:46 10-to-1 Ratio & What to Avoid
10:15 Modeling Good Leadership Behavior
12:45 Best Practices for Better Feedback
16:03 Outro

Transcript

Intro

SPEAKER_02 0:10

Welcome to the Vet Practice Playbook brought to you by Vet Practice Pro, where we talk all things veterinary leadership, management, clinic ownership, and more. I'm Dr. Emily King, joined by Kayla Biddles and Richie King. Okay, I have another icebreaker for you guys.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Okay, good. I was gonna ask you that.

SPEAKER_02 0:24

Oh, you were? Yeah. Okay. I want you to take your phone.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

And I want you to go to your emojis.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

And text or pick Kayla, you're better at this than me. Is it possible? So what I want you to do is pick the emoji that most looks like what you feel like right now.

SPEAKER_03 0:44

And then show it. Let's see what we've got. That's a good idea.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

I don't know how to make it like I would say the the little guy with the stars. Because we're excited to be here on the podcast. That was really good. The stars.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

Um Richard? Hold on. Oh, you're still looking. Okay. No, you could whatever, whatever is most whatever describes you right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Picked one with a story, but I don't know if it's appropriate for the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

How do you do it? How are we gonna do it? I just described it.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

She just described it.

SPEAKER_03 1:28

You can send it to me if you want.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Which you wear is while he's looking.

SPEAKER_03 1:34

I'm looking right now. I'm doing mine.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

You could also say, what's your number one? You know how you know how you look at it.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

I gotta I gotta pull the Richie's up.

unknown 1:45

What?

SPEAKER_01 1:46

You guys see that?

SPEAKER_02 1:48

Groucho Marks. Okay. Okay, Groucho Marks. He's trying to be funny. Funny, funny. Okay. Let me see.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Anybody at the age of like 60 has no idea who Groucho Marks is.

SPEAKER_02 2:01

Uh, this is me. I'm gonna send this back to you and you can show everybody. What?

SPEAKER_01 2:09

What is it?

SPEAKER_02 2:11

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Oh, I almost chose that one, actually. You did?

SPEAKER_02 2:14

Because I use it a lot. Oh my gosh. I don't know. I don't know. All right. Okay, well, listen, today we are talking about why feedback sucks so much. Why is it so uncomfortable? Why can't it? Yes.

Why Feedback is Uncomfortable

SPEAKER_01 2:29

It doesn't, feedback is good. Doesn't it? No, it is.

SPEAKER_02 2:31

But most people would say if you said, yeah, feedback sucks. So why does it feel like that in our industry? I would say across the board, but in our industry as well. Why do you guys think?

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Let me back up. I just this story just popped into my head. I used to have a. Why is it so uncomfortable? Okay, there was a the friend that I used to have or have, I guess, used to work. Sam's Club? No, not a Sam's Club. He was a roommate.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

Mr. Gaddy's.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

No. But he he worked at a restaurant. It was gat it was Grady's, actually, in Knoxville. Okay. And they uh were known for uh some of their cutting edge, you know, at least for the time, um uh training programs. Uh and everybody was trained, but they didn't call it training, they called it developing. And what they would say is you train a dog, you develop a person. So they would, I mean, it's playing words, I get it, it means the same thing. But that goes into the notion of feedback and how that can further develop. If you look at it, a lot of that just has to do with how you you your paradigm and how you look at things, the frame with which you're looking at um an event or a result or whatever. So I think that's really important. If you if you if you look at it less on a negative and more as a positive, these people are trying to make you the best that you can possibly be. I think it reframes the event and the circumstance and into a much more positive light.

Setting Feedback Expectations

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Yeah. And I think it it really depends on how the person is giving you feedback. I think a lot of times people don't know how to give good feedback. And so it feels as the recipient like you're being belittled or essentially like you sucked, you don't know what you're doing, and that's not positive feedback.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

I think the biggest mistake everyone makes is that they don't tell people that they're gonna get feedback. And so then, therefore, people are surprised, shocker, that they're actually getting feedback. So, like I think you can help yourself tremendously it at the hiring meeting. You say, you know, in our interview series, you know, we run through these certain things, these steps when we hire somebody. And during that process, you need to say, hey, listen, how do you handle feedback? Because you're gonna get it here. And because we think, you know, feedback is kindness, like showing love. What?

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Do you say it like that?

SPEAKER_02 4:41

You're gonna get it. You're gonna get it here because it's a way of loving you. If we don't, you know, like you should be, you know, when I was playing basketball, my coach always said, Listen, the only time you need to be concerned is when I'm not talking to you. Because that means I'm done. Peace out. You're worthless. You can't do anything. Yeah, you're not worth helping anymore. And it's like, oh, yeah, you're exactly right. I want to hear what you have to say. I want to hear what you have to say all the time. And as soon as you stop talking to me, that's when I'm gonna be worried. And I think if people had that approach, instead of being like, oh my God, they're gonna talk to me. How many times did you have in the clinic when someone would be like, oh crap, what did I do wrong? And you're like, oh my gosh, I'm just talking, I'm just I mean, a lot every time.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Part of that goes I need to bring my box. Bring your box, baby.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

Part of that goes to the type of person that's been hired and the type of employee it is. If you have somebody that's terribly insecure, they can't take any kind of feedback at all, that's a problem.

SPEAKER_02 5:46

But I think if you forewarn them, it sets up the next conversation so easily. Like, so when someone's just like upset that you gave feedback, then and you're likely if you're forewarning people they're gonna get feedback, you probably are taking the time to be good at giving feedback and give it in the right way. So let's assume that that's happening. But then say the person doesn't receive feedback well, you can be like, hey, listen, we talked about this. This is something that's going to happen on a regular basis. And I need you to shift how you're thinking about feedback.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

Yeah. It's not bad. We're not giving you feedback to yell at you or scream at you. We're growing and developing you to make you the best employee. And I also think, too, knowing your employees well with their personalities, taking personality tests and all that, you're gonna know, okay, I can be direct with this person and they're gonna love it. And I have to sugarcoat this person a little bit more. And so I think knowing your employees and knowing how they can receive feedback and being a good leader to recognize that and change how you talk to them.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

And I think it's really important to address the professional, not the personal. It's more behavioral. Yes. And less like I think if people perceive it as a personal attack, they're not listening to feedback because then I mean, I know personally, um It's not about your your identity, it's about a behavior. If any i immediately the walls go up and you're like, I don't care what you say going forward, I'm not listening to it because you led with a personal attack. Yeah. So and it and it diminishes the credibility of the person giving feedback too, because you're like, you're not my dad, I get it, but you know, I kind of work here, I don't have to work here. Yeah. So that really you have to be careful in that regard that you don't now there's certain situations that are personal issues you do have to address, but that's they're there, it's rare. I mean, generally speaking, it's performance-based and uh and and you kind of have to follow that tack.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

And I think making sure you're giving if two employees are doing the same thing, you have to give feedback to both.

SPEAKER_03 7:39

Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

Make sure you're not just giving one because then that one person is gonna be like, okay, well, why aren't you talking to Sally over here? Um so yeah, make sure Yes, you bring up a great point.

10-to-1 Ratio & What to Avoid

SPEAKER_02 7:50

And I think that's why it's received so poorly a lot of the times, is that people aren't good at giving feedback. So when you aren't good at giving feedback, then you're likely to mess up psychological safety. And when you mess up psychological safety, that's when people are like, you know, like it's that whole thing, like I can hear feedback from this person and it doesn't ruffle my feathers. But then this person, if they were to say the same thing to me, I'm like, what we're ready to fight. Let's go. Like, right? Like that's not that's because there's no psychological safety. And so understanding that and learning how to keep people in dialogue, which is a whole crucial conversations thing, which, okay, here's my shameless plug. We're gonna be doing a workshop. And well, we did the workshop, we're gonna be doing a mastermind on crucial conversations, so check it out because it'll make your life so much better. Okay, anyway. So that's a whole thing, like being good at feedback. Yeah, you know, giving it. So, what are some things that can I say something about answer question?

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Yeah, I want to say that. So you also can't just only talk to them when you're giving them feedback. Because then they're gonna be like, anytime Kayla comes out of her office, we're getting in trouble.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

Like you have to have a relationship outside of giving feedback.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

And it's there's some ratio, I forget what it is. It was like 10 to 1. 10 to 1. Your interactions, you need 10 positive interactions. And then the with because then to your point, if you have that one, their initial reaction isn't, oh, they're here to you know, give me say something negative if you've led with the other 10.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

Well, we talked about the bank account. You can't just pull from an empty bank. You have to add positive money into the bank account before you can pull a negative out.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

So things that make feedback uncomfortable when it's vague, when it's emotional. Or personal. And I was laughing at this list because I've experienced all of these things. When it's vague, it's emotional. When it's inconsistent, to your point of you're telling Sally, but not Amy, right? When it's delayed, so now three weeks later you're coming back from saying you know what you did three weeks ago back then when you check that client? I do not remember that. Okay, delayed when it's public. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 9:57

Yeah, don't do that.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

Do not do that. Like when you are in treatment and I don't know, you guys have a policy of not grabbing syringes with your whatever it is, and you call somebody out and that do not do that, that will not be seen as supportive and good feedback. Passive aggressive.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

And leadership though, that comes to leadership, though. I think it's really important for as a leader to understand and appreciate what what you really want the end goal to be. I mean, do you want them to be better, or do you just are you having a bad day and you're yelling at people? That's the problem, is that and we've all had that. We've all had bosses snap at us and stuff like that. But you know, in retrospect, I'm I'm I think back and I think they were just having a bad day. That doesn't excuse that they did, but as a leader, you've got to be cognizant of that and not not do that. Because that that'll kill credibility like that. You know, so you have to be really careful that you take a moment yourself as a leader and pull back because especially in a public context, everybody's watching. Okay. And they're gonna see it and they're gonna remember it, and they're gonna remember when so-and-so yelled at so-and-so, you know.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

So also as the superior, as the leader, how you receive feedback is extremely important because you need to model that behavior, you know, so that your employees see you receiving feedback in a good light, um, in a positive light. And asking, like, tell me more. What, you know, like, you know, what is your body position? So your um, you know, your tone look like, you know, and your cues. Are you standing like this? Are you oh are you asking for more? Tell please tell me more. How can I do that differently next time? Like the way you model that for your people, the more likely they are to also perform in that way as well.

SPEAKER_03 11:35

Yep. I would agree. Okay, what else?

SPEAKER_02 11:39

Anything else anybody has to add about that? What makes it less uncomfortable? So we talked about the fact that the things that make it uncomfortable, right? All those things, vague, you know, delayed, all those things, passive aggressive, which I feel like we see a lot in veterinary medicine, passive aggressive comments, right? I feel like all the time. Or maybe it's not even a comment, it's a text message and a group text.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

Also, don't give feedback via text message. And don't do that. And and do not say that, but I feel like I have to say it.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

In the workshop, we said, right, do not send a group text when it's a single person who has the issue. And you know who you are, and you write like and because you know the one person isn't gonna get it.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

No.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

So, like, just go have a conversation with the person who needs to hear it.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Yes, be comfortable having an uncomfortable conversation with the one person and not pull all the staff in.

SPEAKER_02 12:34

Yeah. Okay, so what makes feedback less uncomfortable? It needs to be frequent.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Yep.

Best Practices for Better Feedback

SPEAKER_02 12:39

We talked about 10 times positive to one time negative, right? Or correction, one time correction to lead to the positive, follow the negative. Yeah. It's specific, and that's a big thing about feedback. You can't say you did great today. That doesn't, that's gonna fall short. No. It needs to be very specific. You had all of your anesthetic sheets filled out by the end of work today, which is so impressive because now tomorrow, when you come in, you're not gonna have that on your plate. That's very specific, you know? Um, and so being very specific about what the feedback is, I think is really important.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

I think too, making sure you're tying it back to core values and mission statement. So, yeah, you're giving feedback, but ultimately everything should lead back of the bigger picture.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

The bigger picture. And also to that point, I think if if you know someone is uh terribly ambitious and they want to do this, that's another form of feedback to say, listen, you're positioning yourself for this, whatever this is. So therefore, this feedback is valuable in that regard to help position you for that to reinforce those behaviors that will get you to that next level.

SPEAKER_02 13:39

It's delivered calmly.

SPEAKER_03 13:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 13:42

Right. And then we said it's consistent across the team.

SPEAKER_00 13:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

Okay. Um, and then we talked about modeling, leaders modeling it, which is really important.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

Lead by example always. Right.

SPEAKER_02 13:54

And I the last thing I would say is I think most veterinarians are slightly like a little bit introverted.

unknown 14:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

Right? What's the one where you're not extroverted, you're not introverted, you're ambrovert. Well, I don't know, it's called something like that. We're in the middle. I'm not gonna go there. Okay, listen. No, I'm just saying that you think that you don't like you're avoiding.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

Like I don't want to rock the boat kind of scenario. So I'm avoiding, and I think that really creates a lot of issues for people over time, and it's gonna build resentment. Yeah. And I don't know if you listened to that homily by Father Mike. Did you listen to it?

SPEAKER_00 14:29

Which one?

SPEAKER_02 14:30

The one I just sent you.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

Mike Schmidt. It's in the queue to listen to.

SPEAKER_02 14:34

And Hallow. Harrison, did you listen to it yet? He talks about resentment and the power of resentment, and he explains it so amazingly well that it is the thing that can tear everything down, which makes sense, right? When you sit there and you just it's festers and festers and festers, resentment is the one thing that will wreck everything in your staff. Like if they're if they're resentful. So it'll definitely mess up your culture.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

Yes. But I think if you, like we've said before, if you start from the interview and hiring process, do yourself a lot of favors. It just makes it so much easier. Um, because they know. And if they, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

And really that what's the hiring process? The hiring process is you're minimizing the chance it's not going to work out. That's what you're doing. You're you're looking to maximize the productivity and the employment relationship of that individual, as they should with you. So, I mean, I think that that's such an important thing. So in in today's tight labor market, it's so easy to go, we just needed somebody, if you can fog a mirror, you're hired, and that's your ass.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

And they're there for the working interview. Try to give them a little feedback and see how it goes. How it goes. And yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:40

Absolutely. All right. So, in closing, feedback's uncomfortable, but that's because growth is uncomfortable, right? We always say that. Growth and comfort don't coexist. So you got to be comfortable being uncomfortable. Um, but the absence of feedback is far more damaging than the discomfort of it. So if we want stable practices, feedback cannot be rare. It has to be normal. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

Yep.

Outro

SPEAKER_02 16:02

All right. That's a wrap for this week's episode. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

All right. So I just encourage everyone to check out our website, look at our courses. We got free downloadables. Um, there's a whole bunch of stuff on there to help you and your clinic grow and succeed. And then also don't forget to check out our circle community. It's a great place to ask questions, vent about your day, um, post things. So make sure you get on there. We're all on there to answer any questions, anything you guys may have. Um, and then with that, that's it for today's episode of the Vet Practice Playbook. We hope you got a few plays to use for yourself or for your clinic. If you enjoyed this conversation, share it with others, leave us a review, and check out vetpracticepro.com for tools and courses that can take your clinic to the next level. See you guys next week.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

See ya.