EP19 - Fixing Team Issues vs System Failures (The Gapology Framework)

If your veterinary practice feels stuck, whether it’s missed charges, team tension, or constant frustration, it might not be the people… it might be the system.

In this episode, we break down one of the most common (and costly) mistakes practice owners make: misdiagnosing problems. Are you dealing with a “difficult” team member, or is your system setting them up to fail? Using the powerful Gapology Framework, we walk through how to identify where breakdowns are actually happening and what to do about them.

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Timestamps
00:00 Intro
03:10 Identifying the Problem: People or Systems?
03:57 Pitfalls of Misdiagnosis
04:24 The "Gapology" Framework
05:29 Practical Example of Missing Charges
07:25 When Leadership is the Problem
09:23 Five Questions Before Labeling Someone "Difficult"
11:11 How Can You Tell If the System is the Problem?
16:33 Outro

Transcript

Intro

SPEAKER_02 0:10

Welcome to the Vet Practice Playbook brought to you by Vet Practice Pro, where we talk all things veterin, management, clinic ownership, and more. I'm Dr. Emily King, joined by Caleb Middles and Richie King.

SPEAKER_03 0:19

Hello, hello.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

All right. So for today's episode, I have another icebreaker because they're fun. Why not? What was your favorite show as a kid?

SPEAKER_03 0:31

Oh, okay. This came to my head because I was so sad.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

Okay. Oh no. We had no hesitation. You were like Johnny on the spot there. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 0:39

I love Dawson's Creek and Dawson just died.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

He did. I know. That was really sad. Richie has been talking a lot about the Dawson's Creek guy because he's getting ready to have a colonoscopy on Friday.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Okay, come on. Start over. We're not doing that.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

Yes, it's mine. No, that's so you've been talking about the Dawson's Creek guy because he died of colon cancer. That's great.

unknown 1:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

He'll cut the other part. Okay. Okay. So I'm just saying we've been talking about Dawson's Creek. Yes. Okay. So you were sad.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

It's very sad. I loved that show.

SPEAKER_02 1:11

Oh gosh. I never saw that show. And what did you? It was probably when we were how what what it was when we were 20 or 2006 or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:19

Yeah. You guys, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

We were older. I was like, it was on like WB or something, wasn't it? Or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:27

So it was Oh, you wouldn't have liked it. It's totally a like a teen. Teen drama thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

Okay, what was your favorite show as kid? Um, it depends on what you call defining. I'm gonna guess.

SPEAKER_04 1:38

Oh yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

What?

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Dukes of Hazard. Well, that was one of our favorites. It was Friday nights. Okay. I think it was Friday nights. And then it was Dukes, because I remember it was Different Strokes, Dukes of Hazard, and then Dallas. And we were allowed to watch the first two, but not the last one. Dallas was two. But my grandmother used to say, Tell us because she would pick us up from school every day. She said, Come hell or high water, I am watching Dallas tonight, no matter what. Now, my second favorite show when I was probably a little older was um uh I Love Thursday Night TV, and it was The Greatest American Hero and The Fall Guy and Magna P. Those, those, those uh Magna PI sort of was a little serious for us, but for sure the Greatest American Hero is my favorite show. Uh, and then uh the rest of them were kind of what they were.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Yeah. So my favorite show was Emergency. Okay, that was okay. It was in the 70s. Yes. That was a long time.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

He just called you old.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

No, that was my favorite show too when I was like five.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

Okay, well, when I was a kid. I mean so I mean, and it's so funny because it was all medicine and action, and now look and see what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Do you remember the show Quincy? Just barely. It was like a murder show, but it was medical because he was a medical examiner is Quincy M E, and he's uh you know, super pathologist. But it was all about that kind of thing, the investigatory process of finding things.

Identifying the Problem: People or Systems?

SPEAKER_02 2:59

So yes, okay. All right. Today on the playbook, we are going to talk about whether it is a people problem or a systems problem and what people get wrong a lot of the time and how you can tell the difference.

SPEAKER_04 3:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:15

Maybe some little markers that you can use to be like, oh, this is actually a me problem, not the person. Yeah. Okay. So have you ever said why can't they just do their job?

SPEAKER_03 3:28

100%.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

Okay, me too. So is it actually a people problem or is it a systems problem? And that's what we need to figure out when you're saying that to yourself. I think most people assume it's people. It could be both though. Absolutely. But I think in general, don't you think people they blame it on the person.

SPEAKER_03 3:46

They blame it on the person.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

And so then I think the problem is if leadership misdiagnoses the problem, then you can't fix it.

SPEAKER_03 3:54

Right, because the next person will just do the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

Right.

SPEAKER_03 3:58

Because the system is not in place.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

Yeah, so a lot of times we assume it's character when it's actually structure.

SPEAKER_03 4:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

Can be the thing.

SPEAKER_03 4:06

It's probably in a leadership role, it's probably easier to blame the person because otherwise you're gonna have to create the system to fix it.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

Or it's you, right?

SPEAKER_03 4:16

Or yeah, it's it's me, I'm the problem. Right. People don't like to say that. So it's just easier to blame the person.

Practical Example of Missing Charges

SPEAKER_02 4:24

So one of the books that Kayla and I've read is called Gapology, and gapology does a really good job of helping explain or helping you determine where the problem is. And so they say that when people aren't following through or things aren't happening the way that you think that they should happen and expectations aren't being met met, then it's either a knowledge problem, it's either a um what's the other one? Knowledge, knowledge. What am I drawing drawing? I'm drawing a blank. I'm drawing a blank here. Um, it's either knowledge, importance, or action. It's one of those three things. There's a gap in one of those three things. So it's either a gap in knowledge, a gap in importance, or a gap in action. So I think the way you can tell the difference is knowledge gaps, people don't know how to do something. Importance gaps, they know how to do it, but they don't understand the importance of it. And then action gap, they know and they care, but they're not executing it. And that's a people problem most of the time. Right. So one of the examples we were talking about was like a tech who's missing charges. You like when I hear that, I go, why isn't that person doing that? Why are they why do they keep missing the charges and on invoicing? And so like your first instinct a lot of time is like that person, they just don't care enough or they're not detail oriented enough, or they're not trying hard enough, or they're not whatever. But instead, we should actually be asking, were they trained? Is the process in place? Right. Is there a checklist? Is there reinforcement? Because if you can answer if you answer no to any of those questions, then it's a system problem.

SPEAKER_03 6:07

Right.

SPEAKER_02 6:08

And so that's how you would be able to tell the difference. Right.

SPEAKER_03 6:11

Yeah. And I think asking too the employee of essentially always laugh who was always like, help me understand why you're missing all these charges. And they could have a legit thing, which goes back to it's probably a system error, or I didn't know, I had no idea I was supposed to charge, I thought they were just free, you know, whatever. And so then that's a training issue too. So asking them, like, help me understand why you keep doing this or why you keep missing these charges.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

Yeah, that's a really good point. And then ask.

SPEAKER_03 6:41

Right. Because then you don't know why they're doing it. You're just assuming. So let them explain why they keep doing whatever they're doing, and then that's gonna help you determine if it's a people problem or a system problem.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Why are you laughing? I was just thinking about something that happened in a clinic like a thousand years ago.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

What was it? We um had an individual we hired to work phones, and she well, I wasn't gonna say she, but it was someone I was it's when the majority of people in binary medicine are with them. And I spent an entire evening or two at the clinic working with them to try and get them to answer the phones correctly, and they just simply couldn't do it. So that's obviously a people problem then. Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:23

Yep. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

It's a bad fit.

When Leadership is the Problem

SPEAKER_02 7:25

So if it's an importance problem, it's probably a leadership problem, meaning that if they know how to do something but they don't think it matters, then that's your culture. Right. Which is usually then falls on leadership. Yep. So um, and that usually means that you haven't connected behavior to impact. So like when you act this way, this is the result kind of a thing. You haven't explained the why or you haven't modeled it consistently.

SPEAKER_03 7:50

Yep. Are the big things.

SPEAKER_02 7:53

I agree. Okay. And then if it's an action gap, it might be a people problem, like you were talking about just previously. Why are you still laughing? Because he's laughing.

SPEAKER_03 8:04

I started laughing because he yawned.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

I didn't mean to yawn, sorry. Action gaps are the hardest one because the people know how to do something, they agree that it matters, they have clear processes, and they still don't execute.

SPEAKER_03 8:19

That's where crucial conversations come in.

SPEAKER_02 8:21

And you know, that is that secret like um defiance. It's like secret defiance or defiance that's or capability.

SPEAKER_01 8:30

Sometimes it's just a bad fit. I mean, they're we've all had jobs that we just can't do.

SPEAKER_02 8:35

No, I I think that that's like uh they no, this is like they know how to do it. Like you've already determined that they know how to do it. They're choosing not to do it. Right, even though they know that it's important, and that's where that defiance, like that's why I call it like there's this like underlying like secret defiance. And it is it'll destroy your culture.

Five Questions Before Labeling Someone "Difficult"

SPEAKER_01 8:56

Do you think though, too, though, that sometimes people are capable of doing it? I'd break things a lot a lot of times down into capability and willingness. And if you have neither, then it's a lost cause, you can't do anything. But if you're capable of doing it, you're just unwilling, it's still results-based, right? I mean, you're capable of showing up to work on time, but for whatever reason you're not. Yeah. So I mean, so it's it's still either way, the result isn't being met, therefore you have to make take corrective action or separate or something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

So here are some questions that you can ask yourself before labeling somebody difficult, like before just assuming that they're the problem. Have I clearly defined the expectation? Have I trained to competence? Because that's I feel like that's like one of the biggest gaps in veterinary medicine. You train somebody for a week and then you get busy as the trainer, you get pulled away. And so you're like, they got it. Yeah, they know what they're supposed to be doing. And so then you have this inconsistency in training. You never trained to habit or to competence.

SPEAKER_03 9:53

And then yeah, then you blame them for not knowing when it was really your fault because you didn't train them properly.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

Yes. Amen. Have I explained why it matters? Have I reinforced it consistently and I have I measured it, which is another thing that I feel like veterinary clinics from a training perspective are not good at doing.

SPEAKER_03 10:09

Yeah. Well, I would even say too, explaining the why. And we're just we get busy, you know, there's a million clients waiting, and we just throw, like, well, just do this, just put that in there and just be done with it, without explaining the why. And so it could be something super important, but it seems like a minor task. But yeah, we just have to explain the why. You have to take the time to slow down and explain why everything matters.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

Absolutely. If you haven't done those five things, it's premature to call it a people problem. Yeah. I guarantee that 90% if somebody called in here and said, I have this, and we asked them these questions, by the time you got to measured it, they would have said, nope, I'm not measuring it. Measuring, I think, is one of the things that gets forgotten the most. And also then explaining the why and then training to competence. I guarantee you that they cannot say they've done all of those things the majority of the time.

SPEAKER_03 11:04

And I think too, also looking at are multiple people doing the same thing.

How Can You Tell If the System is the Problem?

SPEAKER_02 11:09

Yes. So you bring up the next thing, which is how can you tell that it's a system problem? Multiple people. Right. Yeah. Definitely having the same thing.

SPEAKER_03 11:17

So it's either a system training, whatever, but that's where you really have to look at yourself and have extreme ownership of like, okay, we've done something wrong here because multiple people are doing doing the same, having the same issue.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

I think the development of those systems is the heavy lift. Yeah. Because if you start off as a small organization, small operation, and you slowly graduate up, it's hard to say, okay, now I'm getting large enough about to put these systems in place. Yes. Yeah, I need to do this. I mean, that's a lot. But I mean, if you look at it almost like an investment in your future, yeah, from a time-saving standpoint, if you put those systems in place, it makes your job way easier as it allows you to scale, really is what that's about.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

Well, no, that's the majority of the problems that the clinics have is they start out, it's one doctor, right? I'm starting my clinic, I'm working there. It's you and I and a receptionist, and everything's fine. And then you add a better, you know, like whatever it is. You as you add complexity, if you do not have the systems in place, then it's all over the place. And now they're busy. They don't have time to go back.

SPEAKER_03 12:15

And that's where it's like, because I wrote a lot of the systems, and so I they are so time consuming. Um, but you can they're on our website.

SPEAKER_02 12:23

They're on our website. And then also we're gonna do a class on AI. Right. Uh once they're in place.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

I mean, you can attest to this. Once they're in place, did you find it easier to manage once they're in place?

SPEAKER_03 12:34

Yes, I mean I think so much easier. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

The management, I mean, the measuring standpoint, if you've got a a quantitative metric to be able to measure success uh or less than success, and plus the systems that are in place, it m I mean it makes it, I would imagine, way easier.

SPEAKER_03 12:50

Well, it makes it way easier to have those hard conversations with people.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:53

It's like there's no excuse of why you're doing this because there's proof that you went through the months of training and understanding and everything.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

So you need unit eight, but you're at a four. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_02 13:06

You know, so so here's some other uh signs that it's actually a systems problem. Performance varies wildly between days. You rely on ask Sarah instead of a documented process. Ask Sarah. Uh just funny. I just feel like that's something that, you know, like go ask so-and-so. Yeah, they know how to do it. New hires struggle disproportionately. Leaders constantly step in to fix things. Mm-hmm. Those are all if multiple people fail in the same way, it's almost never personality, it's structure. Okay, signs that it's actually a people problem. Everyone else follows the processes. Expectations are documented and trained, feedback's given clearly, support has been offered, and behavior does not change. So now it's not clarity, it's uh the people somebody's choosing.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

Or I mean, to the point earlier about having a quantitative metric. If you've got everybody at eight, but then you have this one person that's constantly stuck at a four or five, you're like, okay, it's a people problem. Yeah. There's just something's missing here with something.

SPEAKER_02 14:08

I think the big a big leadership takeaway would be that take the time to diagnose the problem before you label it. So, like to your point of asking questions, digging into the the issue rather than just assigning a diagnosis of this person's problem. Right. So diagnose it.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

Why are you laughing now? Because I'm thinking about something about a number we're talking about, measuring people and systems and all that stuff. Our youngest is a huge fan of cracker barrel. He loves cracker barrel. So I go there a fair amount. And every time I check out, I go up and they offer me a candy bar or something that that's sitting there in a basket. And I was like, eventually, I'm like, you guys must get a kickback, something. There's something here that you're selling me two candy bars for a dollar. I don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_02 14:54

But they're consistent.

SPEAKER_01 14:55

They are, they are consistent.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

There's no gap there. Nope.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

Yeah, it's a consistent, yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

The system is working. And I'm so proud of you for not saying yes. Okay. What else do you guys have to add? That's what you don't know. Right, exactly. Right. Okay. What else? Anything else you guys have to add about systems versus people?

SPEAKER_01 15:16

I wouldn't say invest the time to do that. I think the decentralized nature of VentMed as it currently is uh lends itself to the lack of systems and quantitative measurements of success, things like that. But take the time to put those in place, it'll make your job a lot easier and let you scale uh much faster.

SPEAKER_03 15:32

Yep. And it's also what do you allow as a leader?

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:37

So if the rules to be there at 7 a.m. and you allow people to trickle in, um, then that's a problem. A leader problem, not a staff problem.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

And don't be afraid to delegate. And I think that's the thing, especially if you're practic if you're a a doctor and your primary skill set and enjoyment comes from practicing medicine, don't try and be everything. I mean, try and hire a PM or hire people to go put those systems in place and take that off your plate. You'll be glad you did.

SPEAKER_02 16:03

Yeah. If you're feeling any of these things that we've talked about today, because we laugh about them because we felt them, right? And we've lived them. You know, know that there's there's a light at the end of the tunnel. These things are fixable and that you really just need to, you know, break one small piece away at a time and just hammer away at one thing at a time. Um, so yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:23

Yeah. Consistency is key. It doesn't happen overnight. The changes don't happen overnight, but holding people accountable and being consistent will change. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

It's a marathon, not a sprint.

SPEAKER_02 16:33

Amen. So, in closing, before you label someone the problem, make sure you haven't built the problem.

SPEAKER_03 16:39

That is good.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 16:41

Yep. So I just encourage everyone, um, check out vetpracticepro.com for all of our courses. We have free downloadables. A lot of the stuff we talked about today. There's resource resources on there for you guys. So check them out. Also, join our email community list and our circle community. So, our circle community is a community for all vet professionals to join, ask questions. We can give you guys feedback, suggestions, anything. Um, we're on there to answer anything. So there's about 400 or so right here, so still on there. Um, so it's a lot of um opportunities to get some um people to chat with you. And so for that, um, this is the end of today's episode of the vet practice playbook. We hope you got a few plays to use for yourself or for your clinic. If you enjoyed this conversation, share it with others, leave us a review, and check out vetpracticepro.com for tools and courses that can take your clinic to the next level. See you guys next week. See you next week.