EP25 - 5 Crucial Conversations Every Veterinary Leader Needs to Have

In this episode of The VetPractice Playbook, we dive into one of the most uncomfortable — yet essential — parts of veterinary leadership: having difficult conversations. Whether it’s addressing compensation concerns, managing poor performance, confronting negativity, protecting clinic culture, or setting boundaries to prevent burnout, avoiding these conversations often creates bigger problems for teams and practices alike.

We break down why so many veterinary leaders hesitate to have these discussions, the hidden costs of avoidance, and how unresolved tension can slowly impact morale, accountability, and workplace culture. Most importantly, we share practical ways to approach tough conversations with clarity, confidence, and empathy so leaders can create healthier teams and stronger clinics.

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Timestamps
00:00 Intro
01:44 The Cost of Avoiding Crucial Conversations
05:01 Conversation #1: Pay and Compensation
11:38 Conversation #2: Performance Management
14:40 Conversation #3: Attitude and Negativity
19:41 Conversation #4: Clinic Culture
22:49 Conversation #5: Boundaries and Burnout
24:41 Outro

Transcript

Intro

SPEAKER_02 0:10

Welcome to the Vet Practice Playbook brought to you by Vet Practice Pro, where we talk all things veterinary leadership, management, clinic ownership, and more. I'm Dr. Emily King, joined by John and Caleb Biddles. Okay. And today we're going to have an interesting conversation about conversations.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

Conversations about conversations.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

All right. Before we get started, make sure to check us out on vetpracticepro.com where we have tons of tools and all kinds of conversations and just different things. Frameworks. We got it all.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

If you're on the struggle bucks, man, go get you some SOPs.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Yep. We have them all.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

We have them all. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Also, be sure you join our email list. It's critical. If you want to keep hearing from us, uh our podcast information to help you with your practices and join our circle group. Kaylee, you want to tell them about Circle?

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Yeah, Circle is a community for all the veterinary professionals. Um, so if you're on there, you ask any questions. Um, it can be medical questions, it can be business questions, leadership questions, anything. And then um, we try to post on there a couple questions throughout the week, but it's a great community to join.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

Absolutely. Much different than Facebook moms. I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Much different than Facebook moms. Facebook DVM moms, moms DVM, Facebook moms.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

You've joined that one, they won't let you in because you're not a mom.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

They will not let you in, but we kind of they're kind of going a little cray cray cray cray over there.

The Cost of Avoiding Crucial Conversations

SPEAKER_02 1:37

So yeah, some interesting. So come join circle. So come join circle and not feel the crazy. Okay. All right. Today's episode may make you a little bit uncomfortable, but in the best way, because we're talking about one of my favorite subjects, which is crucial conversations. We are talking about the five conversations managers avoid but absolutely shouldn't. Because if we're all honest, if you're a practice manager, you probably delayed at least one of these this week. Yep. I'm I was a I would say, you know, one of the things I talk to the students about are the um six different types of leadership patterns. And the first four are really crappy ones. And one of them is being a um basically a passive leader, which is practicing avoidance. And I would say by far that was my most dominant leadership pattern through the early part of my career. So I hated conflict and conversations. Not because I didn't care.

SPEAKER_03 2:30

I don't think I can live for it.

SPEAKER_02 2:32

Yeah, exactly. No, like and it wasn't because I didn't care. I didn't want to damage the relationship. Right. Like you thought that by not having it that you somehow that it was better.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Yes. I mean they can. I mean, they're emotional, they're awkward, they can be very uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

Right. But but we're here to tell you that that just ain't true. That's short term. That's short term. Yeah. That's right. All right. So let's see here.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

So really every conversation you avoid, it doesn't just go away. They don't disappear. So you're like, I'll just do it later, or I'll just see if it keeps happening. Oh, it's gonna keep happening. Yes. And then it's gonna compound, stack on top of each other, and then you're gonna have an annual review full of surprises.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Surprises that says you want to put it all in an annual review, and that you just dump it on them all at once, and it's not a review, it's an annual this is what I think about you. This is what you needed. This is this is how these are so many ways I was pissed off at you all year long. All year long. Oh, here it is. Sit down. Yeah, I'm still gonna give you a four percent raise because I do not want you to hate me. I'm gonna give you the maximum raise because I didn't tell you any of this when I should have. Yeah, there we go. Now we're getting performance and pay all in one.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

All in one. Um, there's a phrase that is like a problem you avoid today just becomes a bigger problem tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:53

Oh, it's so true.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Once you get comfortable with it, it's so much easier to just have those small little conversations first.

SPEAKER_03 4:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

Um, and then it yeah, it just doesn't snowball. And then if you need to keep having a conversation, then it's documented. And then if it does turn into a firing situation, it's super easy at that point because it's all laid out. There's no surprise.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

Yep. I'm always a fan of having these, and we can get into this a little bit more, especially around performance, but having these conversations in real time, like if somebody has a question about any of these like sensitive subjects or you have an issue with it, the more you sit there and muster on, the more you overword it and make it too soft, and you end up thinking, I'm gonna rip them apart. And then you're like, I'm so sorry, but I'd really appreciate it if you would do your freaking job.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Yeah, but can we still be friends? Like, and at that point, like it's not clear and concise.

SPEAKER_03 4:48

Yeah, yeah.

Conversation #1: Pay and Compensation

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Like, yeah, it's just easier to do it right when you see it. So today we have what five hard conversations that we want to help you guys with. Um, so first one fun.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

Pay nobody makes enough. Nobody makes enough, and everybody wants to know what everybody else is making. And it's always uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

So it might look like a team member asking for a raise or someone comparing their pay to others, or you needing to explain why a raise isn't happening.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

That's good.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

So um, yeah. So a lot of managers or owners probably avoid this because they don't feel always in control of the conversation or the compensation. Um, or it's awkward. They're worried of upsetting the employee, especially if they don't get a raise.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

But um, avoiding it is gonna just make it worse. It just creates assumptions. Yes. And I think, you know, like this leads into another kind of area of leadership or a leadership pattern, which is communication and transparency. Typically, if you're not willing to communicate and have these conversations, it's not like people's brains stop working. Right. They actually just fill in the gaps with information that is rarely accurate. Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

I was like, what the wrong information is.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

It's typically built on half-truths and assumptions. And so you when you don't provide information, they just create their own information networks. Yes. Yep. I have to tell you a funny story because in my leadership talk on uh being a um a secretive leader, I use the whole story of locking the upstairs in the church. And that is like my one story I tell about like yeah, I say, yeah, this happened. Yeah, this is a thing. And you know, it just it's it's not meant to be most of the time, the decisions are are based on nothing problematic. Like if you would have just said, right? Like if you would just that's how all of it is inside of a clinic. People just end up making up their own stories, yeah, and it's usually not accurate, and it's usually not accurate.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

I think the best way to tackle this, and this is a slow growth, is all your pay processes and the way that you do pay needs to be so consistent. Yes, make it as black and white as possible so that it keeps you from paying people because of their tenure, their loyalty, not their performance. It keeps you from paying people because you like them and you get along with them. Literally have a very black and white evaluation. And so if people come to you with concerns about pay discrepancies or inconsistencies, you're like, uh, nope, this is how I do it. Well, they have the and plus in court, if you ever terminate somebody or somebody leaves and tries to sue you for wrong, wrongful pay practices or whatever, nope, this is how it's done here. Yeah, no case, no math.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

Well, I think pay scales.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

Yeah, that's what I was saying. Like, there's were you gonna say that?

SPEAKER_02 7:50

Yeah, pay scales, I think, are really helpful. Do you guys think that those are yeah, yeah, and I think it keeps the questions?

SPEAKER_00 7:57

It's not just like, oh, you like her better, so she's getting paid more. Well, no, like we have the scale and she fits here, you fit here, so there's no discrepancy.

SPEAKER_02 8:08

No, no, I was just gonna say, and I think that then leads into phase training. Like you have people at certain training phases, you know, which then moves them throughout the pay scale. So then it becomes very clear that there isn't a question. And also keeping people from like that are doing less like you know, like on the pay scale, they're down here, but they've been here 15 years, but their pay scale is here for this position. This is as high as it's gonna go. You can learn more skills and then move to a different position that offers a different pay scale, but like I can't pay you more than this position for this. What do you guys think about that?

SPEAKER_00 8:47

Yeah, what I think that hits on to like if they're not getting a raise that year, that's a good, like, okay, what are their skill sets? How long have they been here? So, like, if they're at the cap of the pay scale, okay, they need to do more to earn more. Yeah, like it doesn't just, oh, here, you've been here for 10 years.

SPEAKER_02 9:07

Like, do you think that that's a sensitive topic for a lot of people because they think the longer they've been there, the more money they should make? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

I got so much on this, but uh, and for sake of time, I've been in situations where um a leader is very frustrated with somebody who's got the longest tenure of the business, but yet they don't grow, they don't produce, they're producing the same stuff 10 years ago that they were 10 years ago. There's no change, it's just but they're loyal and they've been there and they were one of the first people, so they get the top-end raise every single year with no cap. You know, they just keep growing and growing. So now you have a person who's not growing, who, who, who's not performing, who's actually stuck with you. They're not gonna leave because they can't make that anywhere else. Right. You know, they don't have the resume, they haven't grown to where they can successfully leave you and go to another business. So now you're stuck with a low performer who has zero interest in leaving. Yeah, right. There's that side of it. Um, and you just have to be very careful. And I would say that for people that are in roles like that, an idea where they've capped out, you know, but they're very good at what they do, they just this is what they want to do. There's a there's a person I'm thinking of at All-Star who never wanted to be more than a veterinary assistant. Yeah, and they were loyal and they're tenured and they're okay with their pay where it's at, and like, okay, whatever, you know, this is what this is what makes me happy. Right. I think that's great. And you do have to have a way to reward those people. So I think if you cap a role, this is what I've done in the past. If you cap a role for where it's at, you're at the top end of your role, you're amazing, you're doing great. You need to consider a maybe perhaps an annual bonus alternative where that role and that salary stays the same if you were to hire somebody in it, that you don't have to hire somebody in at a higher level. But yet you recognize this person's great performance and that they're atop of the salary doesn't mean you shouldn't get more money. But we're gonna do it in maybe a one-time or a a biannual bonus of hey, thank you for setting the standard. If they're teaching, you know, if they're precepting new hires, those extra things that they do above and beyond their expectation. That's a way to reward and recognize, but yet not continue to give them raises and a roll that's cap. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

Sounds like it's another podcast.

SPEAKER_02 11:26

I was just thinking the same thing. I was like, ooh, we could do a whole podcast on how to create pay scales.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

Okay, mental note.

Conversation #2: Performance Management

SPEAKER_00 11:34

Okay, okay. Number two performance. Performance.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

These are fun.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

Um okay. What do you want to say about performance then? Yeah, go for it. Your podcast.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

Yes, it's as John Biddle's like five conversations.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

Uh I feel like I'm hogging the mic. Um, the issue with this is I can't stress enough, and I said it already this podcast, you have to do it in real time. Yeah. So many people, retroactive conversations. As a leader, you overthink the conversation and you intend to magnify the severity of the issue. If you can catch it in real time and say, hey, and coach it right then and there, then there's no argument compared to, well, I don't know what you're talking about. When you sit down with an employee, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't do that. And then you have to come up with real life situations that happened two weeks ago to say, Do you remember that one time that you gave that client a dirty look and got an attitude? No. You had no weight. Yeah. So if you can get to the point where you're comfortable coaching in real time, then the harder conversations get easier. Right. When it's like, hey, you know, I've talked to you about this three or four times on the fly. Let's sit down and have a real conversation about your performance. Right. And you can summarize it and it's all right there. And now you can put it in writing and move on. I I really think that's how you do those conversations. It's really hard when it's subjective, as objective as you can make those conversations the more successful you're gonna be.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Well, I think you have to have clear expectations. I think uh a lot of times, especially if you're newer at hopping conversations, um, like you kind of just hint around of the issue, um, you know, or you know, you fix the mistake yourself and don't say anything. Um, so then the tech is never doing anything right. Um, so and again, you have to have clear expectations, um, or it's just it's never gonna get fixed.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

Yeah. And I think, you know, avoiding the conversation doesn't protect the employee. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

It doesn't allow them to get better. No, like you're they're just gonna fail over and over. And then your good employees who are holding the standard, they start to become resentful. Yep. Yep. Because they're seeing people that aren't being held accountable. They'll hate it. They'll hate it. And so then, so now you have your your stronger team members getting resentful, which is a culture killer, and then you have your weaker team members who just aren't growing. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

And I was getting ready to say it. I was getting ready to say it. The the lack of your inability to manage poor performance will be your number one culture killer. Lack of consistency and inability to manage poor performance will literally crush your high performers. Yeah. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

So do it quick, be specific. Also explain the why and the impact. A lot of times, too. I think we forget to like, hey, by you doing this, you're impacting this, this, this, this, this. There's a whole trickle down.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

Sometimes people don't know that.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

They genuinely don't know. And once they know, they're like, oh, geez, I did not know that. I won't do that ever again, you know, kind of a thing.

Conversation #3: Attitude and Negativity

SPEAKER_00 14:38

Yep. All right. Number three. Attitude. Everybody love everybody.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

People don't like this because it feels personal.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

Yep. Yep. And they take it, they can take it personal depending on how you say it. Um, so attitude is not just a personality issue, it's a team impact issue as well. Um, so when one person is always negative, it spreads like wildfire. And I think the opposite is true. If there's positive people, the posity is gonna spread. So shut down the negativity quickly.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

The cost of being nice is absolutely zero. You can be a nice person for free.

SPEAKER_02 15:21

Yep, you can. Yes. And it's under your control. Absolutely. Um, okay, what else do we want to say about coaching attitude? Anything else? Those conversations?

SPEAKER_01 15:31

I would exercise caution in using an employee, whatever you want to call them, uh, um their peers complaints on it. This is something you need to really seek out for yourself. If you're if there's a trend with complaints, you need to be careful. I don't know what your culture is like, but if it gets clicky, you know, and they want to oust somebody, this is gonna be the first thing they go after because it's not so black and white. Yep. Uh performance is very black and white, pay is very black and white. When somebody says they have a bad attitude, that could be subjective. It could be a personality conflict.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

I think that's where you have to have specific examples.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

And like again, going back to what we said earlier about the other one of by you having a bad attitude, this is the trickle down.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Yeah, this is the impact. I think that it's very much that conversation goes along the lines of there's been a trend of feedback that I've been getting regarding your negative attitude. Rather than take that, I sought to observe it for myself. Right. And I agree with what the trends are. These are the issues that I saw for myself. This is what the expectation is, and this is what it's gonna take to get there.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

I think it's a lot about patterns, like pattern recognition, which then results and it becomes less personal, you know, if you're talking about a pattern instead of the person. Yeah. I think that really helps remove that feeling like you're getting attacked.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

Yeah. Yeah. And I do think you need to have it, you know, if you're if you have a good relationship, even if you don't, you need to build one. But, you know, is there anything going on outside of work that could be happening? How can I support you? You know, this isn't your normal behavior versus this is who I am. And it my favorite is when they say, I am who I am. Great. Well, who you are doesn't match the culture and values of our business. Indiana, where we reside, is an at-will employer. Do you know what that means? Right. Right. Right. Seek employment at St. Elsewhere.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

Yes. Yeah. I think a lot of people stay in jobs that they don't want to be at, but they don't, they aren't willing to move. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Because if you're so miserable, why wouldn't you move? Because you're too lazy at this job. If you're the lazy at this job, you're too lazy to learn another one.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

Yeah. Well, that's because you're getting away with whatever you want. But I it's fascinating to me to see the number of people complain, complain, complain, complain, and then not make a change. Yeah. If you're if you're really that unhappy, like why would you continue to work in the same location? Why wouldn't you go find another place to work where you could have better a better situation? Why are you staying here?

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Because I think they're just complainers.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

I have a um, I use a every place I've led, I've had a staff-led performance improvement team. And I always build this. It's your biggest tool you could have as a leader. I should probably do a whole thing on another podcast. Oh my god, write it down, Kayla. However, it I I wouldn't fill it with all complainers, but it is a very, very great place to put people that like to complain and not develop solutions. You put them in a whole committee whose their whole entire role is to list the problems, but then develop and implement the solutions. So you take take you take them from being a success, put them as a successful complainer. You can come here and you can complain, but be ready to talk about what would fix it if it's feasible, if it's controllable, if it's uncontrollable. We'll identify it and we'll fix it. And now your complaints can go somewhere productive. Productive.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

And you have which we kind of that kind of gets on to the next topic of kind of what we implemented at All Star 2 is culture.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

Now your complainers become your biggest problem solvers and it's work you don't have to do.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

That's true.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

Unless they come up with things that are just prob like you cannot implement the first thing you have to do in those meetings is define what's controllable and uncontrollable. You take their complaints and you put them in two categories. Okay. The uncontrollables, out we can't do anything. How do we fix this? Right. Then they see progress, they see their complaints being acted on and they're being fixed. And then all of a sudden they're happy and feel like they're in a position of control. Yeah. It's great. Okay. Okay. Stay tuned for that one. Yeah, exactly.

Conversation #4: Clinic Culture

SPEAKER_00 19:40

Um, all right. Number four is culture. Um, so culture, things like gossiping, clicks, lack of accountability. I'm sure we have all heard, well, that's just how we do it here. Type of mentality. So um managers often avoid this because it feels almost too big to fix. It's a huge thing because it's the whole culture. If it's the whole clinic, like that's a huge task to tackle. Um, but culture isn't built on big moments, it's built in small, tolerated behaviors. So when you ignore all that stuff, um, you're really accepting it. And then it spreads like wildfire. So instead of avoiding the culture conversations, make them a normal conversation in the clinic.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

Yes. I mean, people need to be talking about culture all the time.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:31

It's not something that you just put up on your wall and then you're done dealing with, like, you have to be talking about it and living it all the time.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 20:39

Yes. I love you.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Like, it's so true. I I would sit there and say that the reason you avoid the number one reason leaders avoid culture conversations is they don't live it out themselves. You can't sit there and expect something of somebody else that you're not doing yourself. If you carry it and you and you enforce it and you encourage it and you teach it and you coach it and you live by it, you can sit down and say, This doesn't work this doesn't work. And not have to worry about them saying, Well, you don't do it.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

Or also, too, I think them explaining back how it fits into the culture and the core values. Can you help help tell me how that behavior fits into one of our core values? Yeah. You know, um, I think is also one, and then there's another phrase where it's something like the standard you walk by is the standard you accept. Like basically, like whatever you permit, you promote. Yeah, whatever you walk by and you're okay with it. Yeah. However, that's going down, that's your standard. Like that's you're saying, okay, that's what you're allowing. Yeah. And that's where we're people being able to focus on that and be like, you get what you allow.

SPEAKER_00 21:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:41

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

Yeah. And I do think it's you know much easier to have those conversations if you have a good, solid mission statement and core values, because those conversations always go back to that. So it's an easier conversation to have in my world of like okay, you're not abiding by the core values at all. Um, and so it's just I don't know, it's easier to have those conversations.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Yeah. I think you need to be careful in these culture uh when setting culture and having conversations that fun can be part of your culture, but it's not all of your culture. Um it gets hard when you allow fun to take too big of a part of your culture because you're like, oh, they're not being super productive and they're having conversations that aren't appropriate in front of clients. But they're having fun. They enjoy coming to work. Right. Well, what you have is a social club, not a successful business. Right. And at the point you permit all of this fun happening, then you're abandoning productivity core values, the things that really are gonna catch up with you and matter.

Conversation #5: Boundaries and Burnout

SPEAKER_00 22:40

Right. All right. Again, we can probably talk way more on that too. So I think all these fives could be five new episodes. So stay tuned for those. So last one boundaries. Um, so this can show up as always staying late, always saying yes to everything, um, letting team members overstep, and then managers or owners doing tech work or assistant work instead of actually managing or doing DVM work.

SPEAKER_02 23:06

So Yeah, sounds pretty familiar. Yep. We've all been there.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

Yep, been there, done that.

SPEAKER_02 23:11

Especially saying yes to everything or staying late or, you know, all of those things.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

Yes, because all of that over time will lead to burnout, resentment, um, all of that, and nobody's happy.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

Yeah. I've been in a situation where I've had a a senior leader over me that um rewarded it almost their lack of work-life balance was born as a badge of honor. Oh, yeah. When busy's a badge of honor. And it makes sense. It makes the people below you feel like they have to do that and that they can't have life and that they can't live life outside of work or what else they're not meeting a standard. And and recognize that as a leader, you set the standard and people are watching. And if you're constantly staying late, they're gonna feel inadequate if they leave on time. Right. And and that that's gonna trickle down through your organization. And not only are you gonna be burnt out, your whole entire team's gonna be burnt out. Um, and usually those people that do that, that stay late, that work, lack work-life balance, they will reward people who do the same. And they will promote people that do the same. And you will get yourself in a whole heap of hurt. So it's best to role model it um from the top.

SPEAKER_02 24:24

Yeah. Good idea.

Outro

SPEAKER_00 24:25

Yep. So I think, you know, going forward, pick something. We all have a conversation we need to have this week that we're probably avoiding. So try to pick one conversation this week and have it. And if you need help, reach out to us.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

Reach out to us. Yeah, we'd be happy to help. DM us. Yeah. You know what conversation I'm avoiding this week? What? Honey, what's for dinner? Hey, we know. Nobody wants to have that conversation.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

Uh listen, uh gosh, I get it. I get it. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

Yep. So just pick one and commit to having it and go from there. And like I said, um, if you have any questions, how to have this conversation, reach out to us. Um, and then look out for more in-depth podcasts coming on all these topics. I I think that's probably gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

So I think this might hit circle a little bit later today, too. Okay. This whole what conversations are you avoiding? Maybe what are you avoiding? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:19

What conversation have you avoided this week that you need to take that you need to have?

SPEAKER_01 25:22

I think that's a great conversation starter. Check into circle. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

All right. So that's it for today's episode of the Bet Practice Playbook. We hope you got a few plays to use for yourself or for your clinic. If you enjoyed this conversation, share it with others, leave us a review, and check out vetpracticepro.com for tools and courses that can take your clinic to the next level. See you guys next week.