EP27 - Building an Org Chart That Actually Works for Your Veterinary Practice

If everyone on your team reports to you (or worse, no one knows who to report to) your practice has an organizational structure problem. In this episode, we're breaking down one of the most overlooked tools in veterinary practice management: the organizational chart.

We cover what an org chart actually is (and isn't), how communication flow and pecking orders can make or break your team culture, and the common pitfalls practice owners fall into when they skip this step entirely. We also dig into how org charts intersect with staffing, hiring, and managing gaps... so you're not constantly putting out fires when someone leaves.

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Timestamps
00:00 Intro
02:37 Organizational Charts & Pitfalls
03:33 What is an Organizational Chart?
05:04 Communication Flow and Pecking Orders
08:26 Staffing, Hiring, and Managing Gaps
12:34 Career Paths, Leadership, and Small Clinic Scaling
19:43 Where to Start in Putting Your Own Org Chart Together
25:58 Outro

Transcript

Intro

SPEAKER_04 0:10

Welcome to the Vet Practice Playbook brought to you by Vet Practice Pro, where we talk all things veterinary leadership, management, clinic ownership, and more. I'm Dr. Emily King, joined by Kayla and John Bendles. Make sure to check us out on vetpracticepro.com where we bring you all kinds of tools, conversations, frameworks that help clinics move out of survival mode and into intentional leadership. Make sure you're on the email list. Yep. What else?

SPEAKER_00 0:37

And join our circle community. Follow us. Yep. Social media, circle community.

SPEAKER_04 0:43

We post a lot of podcast tidbits and things like that of like pieces of information that we think are really valuable. So check it out.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Check out vet vetpracticepro.com, schedule a free phone call.

SPEAKER_04 0:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

We will talk to you, maybe get you connected with some of our resources, mastermind session, whatever we can do to support you and your team.

SPEAKER_04 1:02

Absolutely. On the website, you'll see that there's a place where you can schedule a strategy call, which is like a 30-minute call that's free.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:08

Where we'll spend time talking to you about what maybe some of the biggest problems that you're having and then different tools that we have to potentially address those issues.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:16

Yep. Absolutely. So we should also mention that we have masterminds coming up.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:21

We have quite a bit.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

What is a mastermind?

SPEAKER_04 1:23

Mastermind's like a four-week in-depth kind of like coaching cohort. Cohort. That's a great word. Cohort. Cohort. Where we get spend time together talking about some of the most common issues that are taxing to practice owners.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:40

So we're just going to be talking about numbers. We're going to be talking about strategies. We're going to talk about schedule, like how to schedule things correctly. All those kinds of things. We're going to be talking about um inventory and hiring and terminating and SOPs and all kinds of things. But they're basically four-week sessions where you meet once a week and you spend time with a group of people, a very small group of people, and you um uh get to throw out ideas, you get to get ideas from us, um, and we kind of just walk through a journey and we start at this point and move our way to this point. And hopefully you're living a better life at the end of those four weeks.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

That's fantastic. And if you're wondering who from your clinic you should put as part of this mastermind, maybe you should reference your org chart. Your org chart. Which maybe you don't have one. Maybe yours needs revamped and restructured. That is very true.

Organizational Charts & Pitfalls

SPEAKER_04 2:41

We are talking about org charts. We are talking about it. Um, so we're gonna get into it because a lot of practices don't take the time to set it up because they think we're a small business.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

Everyone knows who to go to.

SPEAKER_04 2:54

Everybody knows, yeah. Everybody knows who to go to to find out an answer about something or to make a decision or just to know who they should be asking a question to. Everybody knows.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Oh, yeah. Forced assumption is always a terrible idea.

SPEAKER_04 3:07

Or they either have one that they've used like for 20 years. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

It's the same Orton chart.

SPEAKER_04 3:12

I'm the boss. Everybody reports to me. And and yeah, exactly. And the people listed on the org chart are no longer working at the practice.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

And the people just know on their minds, oh, that person took that person's place, so now they're in that role. And yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Oh my god. We used to do it that way, but really it didn't work. So now we do it this way, but nobody wrote it down.

SPEAKER_04 3:32

Yep.

What is an Organizational Chart?

SPEAKER_04 3:33

All right, so let's start simple. What is an org chart, guys? How would you describe it?

SPEAKER_00 3:39

A visual map of who's who reports to who.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

I really think that people get caught up in what these look like and how pretty they are and how organized they are, but really it just needs to be an outline of how information flows, how decision flows, and how training flows, and have a very good diagram of where your holes are, what roles you need to fill and staff, what's important to the operation of your business. Yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:13

Clear understanding of who goes where, chain of commands, chain of commands, all that kind of good stuff. Okay. All right. Um if there is no org chart, what do you guys typically see? When you've worked in businesses or worked with folks who don't have an org chart, what kind of do you see happen?

SPEAKER_00 4:34

Um, I think I could probably, my answer is probably one or two ways. So one, it's a small clinic. So they're just everyone just knows we're like family, everyone does everything, everyone's hands is in everything. But then I think that can get very messy as you grow. I think it's okay when they're small, but as soon as you start growing, it just gets messy. And well, I went to this person for this answer, and then I went to this other person, and she gave me a different answer. So who's right, who's wrong?

Communication Flow and Pecking Orders

SPEAKER_01 5:04

I think what you'll start to see is you'll see your staff form their own mental org structure. And it goes two ways. One, you could have a very positive, informal leader that everybody goes to that communicates well with you, they're a high performer, and everybody recognizes that goes to them. You might last a little bit longer. Then the other side, where you have somebody who's just a very dominant, mean personality that everybody's scared of and intimidated by. So they run everything by them just out of fear that they're gonna get yelled at or in trouble by this person who's not an appointed leader. They just think they are. Um, either way, you are forcing one of those two people, either you're high performer, you're forcing into an accountability that they may not want, you know, because you're gonna hold them accountable to decisions that are made or what you told an employee, or you're gonna falsely promote a horrible employee by allowing them to continue to try to boss and intimidate these people. So you really have to be sure that you use the structure to put the right people the right places and be able to sh be able to understand that you are compensating them accordingly and you are using them as a resource accordingly.

SPEAKER_04 6:15

Yeah. I think the clarity piece is something that's kind of woven throughout the entire operations of a business. Like if you're not clear about what expectations are or you're not clear about communicating, then it to your point that employees just fill in the blank space. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

You become your own glass ceiling without an organizational structure because everybody reports to you, but that means you report to everybody. Yes, you're the bottleneck that you have to get your information from everyone. You need one or two people that funnel information up to you and back down to your team. Otherwise, you are gonna spend all your time in administration and never be able to move forward. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 6:55

Absolutely. And we're gonna talk a little bit about that on another podcast, which is decision making and how the org chart affects decision making. So why are we having so much trouble saying decisions?

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Decision.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

Um, yes, I think one thing before we get into the nitty-gritty is an org chart is not really a pecking order. So it's not like that's a good point to make.

SPEAKER_04 7:23

Like, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

Yeah, it's not like I'm your boss, you need to listen to me. It's more of just clarity of who they go to if they have a problem. It's like the a ladder rungs on the ladder of if I have an issue, who do I go to? Without going around people going straight to the owner, getting people's feelings hurt and confusion and different decisions.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

So the best way I heard it worded in was once the word chart was developed, information goes up, around, and then back down. So it you you channel an issue up to your superior. If they can't manage it, it goes up another level and then it goes up to the top. Decisions are made at this level, and once the decision made, it will push the information right back down. And if you can get your chart to flow like that and your employees to fall in and stay in their lanes, you can really make some headway really quick.

SPEAKER_04 8:14

Got it. Okay. I love that idea. I don't know why I had the picture in my head of the Bassmatic from Saturday night. Okay. Anyway, on to

Staffing, Hiring, and Managing Gaps

SPEAKER_04 8:26

other things. Okay, well, let's talk about the staffing side of things when we talk about the org chart because this is kind of where some practices will leave a lot of value on the table from the standpoint of when they're hiring, especially if they're growing. Um, you really need to know what role you're actually trying to fill because what we'll see from time to time is people just throw people at a problem. They don't know specifically the area that's required in order to fill a hole. So then they hire someone and then it's like the person's doing everything, you know, because there's all these different holes. Yeah. So using the org chart in that way.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

Yep. Which I think we did several times, hiring new doctors and it's essentially just a roadmap laying it out. Who's who do we have, who's helping who, and then where are the gaps? And then if you need that hole filled, that's who you hire.

SPEAKER_04 9:17

Yeah, because so the org chart allows you to definitively say what actually it is that you want, which I think is huge. And what department, who's who are they going to, you know, work and report to, you know, what's their lane gonna be. So I think it's becomes very specific and makes your hiring better.

SPEAKER_00 9:33

Right. And I think too, it allows you, once it's all laid out for hiring purposes, it also I think helps you see if you have another potential leader that you can pull up and then hire somebody underneath them as well.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

Well, it gives you information. You can have a point person as a leader who you can go to to figure out what the issues are. For instance, if you have whoever's doing inventory, not hitting their targets, or you're running out of supplies, or they're over budget, you can go to that person's leader and say, okay, we're having misses here. What is the issue? You can talk to the person that's in it and managing it every single day and say we're short staffed, they're slapping it together, or they're running behind. Okay, is it an employee performance issue, or is it really a resource issue and you need more help in your area? Do you need more coaching? Do you need more teaching? And you can really identify those pain points in your clinic and address them in an organized fashion instead of giving information to a whole entire team that's not relevant to everyone.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

Yep. I think it helps to planning for the future of seeing again who can move up, who can become in a leadership role. If we need another doctor, what all that looks like.

SPEAKER_04 10:46

Okay. All right. Um, also, I think the other point to hit on before we move on past staffing would be just yeah, the hiring aspect. Um if you can, if you can, if you're planning on growing and you're planning on scaling, then adjusting the org chart as needed so that you can then know where the gaps are gonna be.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

So we're building pathways, not just positions.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

Right. I love it. Nice. I like that.

SPEAKER_00 11:12

That's pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

Especially if you're gonna launch a whole second location. Yes, that's true. You already have what you need, what positions are critical, what you need to have. Yeah. We looked at this in the church world and we had an org structure for if we launched another campus, we knew the first three roles that had to be hired, and then the subsequent ones after that. So that way you can hire those initial leaders and then they can build their team as part of the interviews, those processes. It'll help you in staffing who's part of the interview, who's part of the decision to hire. If you're the leader and you're trying to base your whole entire team off of whose personalities fit with you, and you're not the one leading them, then you're just gonna be managing dysfunction. You need to let leaders hire their teams based on strengths and weaknesses and what they need.

SPEAKER_04 11:57

Yeah, yeah, that's a great point. I think a lot of people will do that hire without including the individual who's gonna be responsible for managing them. And be like, here, and you're like, What? This is not even like oh my gosh, yeah. Yeah. Your work chart will help clarify that for you.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

They hire somebody that you're in charge of and never even said a word to you until they showed up.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

That's right. But that doesn't happen.

SPEAKER_04 12:22

Never. Never.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

Surprise. Surprise, guess what?

SPEAKER_04 12:28

Okay, all right. Well, let's talk about leadership because this is where the org chart goes from being kind of like an administrative document to

Career Paths, Leadership, and Small Clinic Scaling

SPEAKER_04 12:34

being a tool. So when team members can see the org chart, they can see a career path, which I think is kind of cool.

SPEAKER_02 12:39

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 12:40

So they can see the direction of growth, I guess, individual growth or different positions, right, within the practice.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Well, it helps too, like right. They can see where they can move up. There's if that's their heart to move up in a company, there they can visually see. Oh, yeah. Where growth is possible.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Yeah, absolutely. I think it also prevents you when you're building your structure from we tend to add new roles, but we don't add any supporting people to those roles or say, hey, we need somebody to manage this. You're now over inventory and finance. So then that person starts doing everything under inventory and finance. And if you have an org structure, you can see what support staff are needed in each area of your clinic to say, okay, you're gonna need some support staff. Right. You're gonna do this instead of putting people in random roles without any support structure.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

No different than the way you guys hire veterinarians at your practice. If you hired a vet, you hired their assistant, you hired their tech, their whole team. And if you have that in a structure, you know exactly what needs to be hired to make that expansion.

SPEAKER_04 13:49

Yes, exactly. The orc chart gives you a starting point, it's like your starting point, basically, for any type of expansion, really. Um, okay, let's see here. What else do we want to talk about from a leadership perspective? Um, the leader you kind of briefly mentioned this earlier, but leadership by default, you know, um, and where someone ends up in a leadership role, not because they were chosen for it, but because they were there the longest or the loudest. When you have a clear structure, leadership is more intentional than and not accidental.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

It can't, like I said, it can either bless you or curse you. You can either find your leaders that way, or you can have your good employees leave that way. Yeah. So it's best to identify those leaders yourself, put them in a position on the organizational structure, but everybody knows who's in charge and why they're in charge. Um, and okay, I do want to say that, you know, if you put somebody in charge on an org structure, don't be afraid to explain to their team why, what characteristics in that person, whether it could be their education, could be their experience, their resume, it could be how they handle themselves in stressful situations, that they support they support leadership, that they're consistent. And if you start to say you're now communicating what behaviors get you promoted within your clinic. Yeah, I like that. So use it as a talking piece too. Your org structure is there to help you.

SPEAKER_04 15:11

I like that a lot. Yes, absolutely. I think one of the mistakes that practice owners, and we again briefly touched on this, but they'll keep themselves on the org chart like somewhere. And it's really like you're kind of like more of a visionary, like as the practice owner, you know, versus yeah, I mean, and you see them down further on the org chart still, and you're like, that's the bottleneck, the whole bottleneck issue. Right. You know, take yourself out of it, take yourself out of it, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

Or just put yourself up on the top, be happy that you have DVM behind your name and you own the place, and then just put it on the city.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

I think like for small clinics though, it probably I mean, for small clinic owners, the the DVM more than likely, when they're small, they're they're doing everything, they're part of everything. But then that's where you have to build those leadership positions and pull yourself out of a lot of those to trust your leadership team.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Yeah. For the small clinics out there, don't be afraid to build a big org chart. It's okay to have blanks and just titles. Yeah. So that way that gives you okay, you it's very proactive. Get in front of the wave. You need to fully anticipate growth. And if you're not, you're not doing it right. And we got you need to call and get a strategic, you need to get on vetpracticepro.com, get a colour, schedule a strategy call. Yeah. Because we need to help you. If you are not planning for growth, you're not going to grow. So it's okay to outline what you want your big clinic to look like. Gray out those little positions, just have titles in there so that you know strategically next level, you're gonna plateau, then you're gonna grow, you're gonna plateau, you're gonna grow, that you're ready for that next growth surge and you know exactly what you need to hire to make it go instead of being reactive. Um, so use an org chart proactively, it's okay. I love that idea.

SPEAKER_04 17:00

I think that's fantastic. I yeah, because I think when you're in the the the heat of the moment growing and whatnot, it's really hard to figure out what you need. And if you scale it all out and you have it visually in front of you with the gaps, yeah, you know, then it's really easy to be like, all right, we have these three gaps, which of these three, which is the most important to fill first? Yep. You know, in terms of our flow and being more efficient and being able to deliver patient care. So then you can focus then on just that gap, get that gap filled and then move to the next one or whatever as you're growing.

SPEAKER_01 17:33

So if you have eight employees, don't be discouraged. Yeah. Build your build your org chart for 20. Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 17:40

Okay. Do we want to save some of the decision making until we talk about decision making as a podcast? Or is there anything that you guys wanted to mention before we move into like if someone's listening, how they actually develop an org chart?

SPEAKER_00 17:57

I I mean, we he hit on it a little bit about going up, around, and down. So the really the org chart is wherever you're at the org chart, who is above you, if you have an issue, that's the person you go to. It's really important to not go down. Obviously, that's gossiping, but then you don't want to go around your person on top of you either.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

I really think when you're looking at org structure in in brief regards to decision, I think we need to, you're right, we need to tune people into the decision-making uh session that we're doing. But I do think that each layer of leadership should have a clear understanding of what decisions can be made at their level and what decisions need to be taken out. That's the important. And that's not so much decision making as it is organizational structure flow, but you need to be able to equip leaders to make decisions. You cannot give them all the responsibility with zero authority to be able to make decisions at their level. But at the same time, you don't want them making decisions that are going to negatively impact your bottom end or your livelihood or your overarching goals as a clinic. So this is where, as a leader, this is gonna be your hardest part. What are you willing to let go of? What are you willing to say, I don't need to be part of this? And what are you willing to say is sacred at the top? And if this does a decision's made around client experience or payroll compensation, I need to know. I need to know about that. And so when you're building your chart, be thinking about what decisions can be made at which level.

SPEAKER_04 19:32

I like that.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Well, I think that helps determine what leaders you're putting in place. Like, yeah. Do you trust them making those decisions without you?

SPEAKER_02 19:42

Yes, absolutely.

Where to Start in Putting Your Own Org Chart Together

SPEAKER_04 19:43

Okay, so if somebody doesn't have an org chart, right? If somebody's listening and they exist in a practice, even if they're not necessarily the practice manager or the owner, and but they know there's a value to developing an org chart, how would you tell them to put it together? Like, how could they start to do that? Where do they start? I guess.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

Well, you gotta start with what you got.

SPEAKER_04 20:07

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

So write down what you got. And I think to hit on John's point, where do you want to be in the next couple years? Like, do you want to expand? Do you want to grow? What goals do you have? So start with what you got and then go with what you want.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

If you have no idea where to start, and I've done this, I've walked into an organization of 20-some employees with absolutely zero organizational structure, none. Um, in a profession that I had no real experience in. Uh, I did go to the web and I searched, you know, this is for church, and I said, Well, you know, give me different models of organizational structure for churches with X amount of employees. And I printed off seven or eight, probably, and really put the highlighted the things that I liked out of each one, how it flowed, how it looked, and really made my own based off of those ideas. And I took the employees I had, the employees I wanted, or the positions that I wanted, and organized it in a fashion and met with my leadership and said, okay, this is what I'm thinking. Where are you at? And we collaborated and really, really set on it. Now, the problem is, is as you grow, you will eventually outgrow your reporting structure. You will have to add layers, you will it'll go once the organizational structure gets so wide it has to get tall because you're not you're gonna be your own glass ceiling as a leader. And you need to recognize that. So when you were looking for these templates to base it off of, don't be afraid to look at clinic sizes of 150 employees to know that okay, if I'm starting small, how does this transition to this? Right. And really take some time. And the only person that's gonna know how to do this is gonna be the leader on how they want it, um, how they want reported to. Can you let what can you let go of? Just like we talked about with the decisions. So my recommendation would be get several different models, plug in the people that you have, and then look at future growth and make sure it's scalable.

SPEAKER_04 22:10

And then I would keep it visual. Like a visual pat like, you know, with it's like a flow chart. Yeah, like a flow chart. And I would have it posted in the practice. Yep. So that there is no question. Especially for your like seasonal workers that come in just during the summer. You know, like where are they? What do they, you know, like sometimes they they get thrown into the mix and they don't really know what they're, you know, who they're supposed to go to with an issue or a problem.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

I'm so glad you brought that up. You should sit down every interview. If you have a very nice, clean organizational structure, when you interview somebody and they're kind of in that interview process, show them the organizational structure and where they're gonna land in it. Don't think so that way they don't think they're hiring in way above where they are or way below where they're not. They get to meet who's leading them, their team. Um, it is a tool for recruitment as well.

SPEAKER_04 22:59

And then also probably review it each year. Yeah. Right? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

Yes, because it will be written and drawn, and then you forget about it for five years, and then nobody's there. Nobody's there. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

But it's really fun to watch, and this is off kilter, but if you look at your org chart and org chart, no, you don't want an org chart, none of that today, especially not on a white couch. But hey, there's anyway, I'm sorry. No, it's good. But, anyways, um, if you start to see a certain line of resignations coming from and turnover from one area of that chart, is it because it's in the kennel and nobody likes to do kennel work? Or is it an area that normally historically has a very good retention rate? You may have a poor leader. It can help guide your conversations to figure out where your issues are within your practice. And if is it a leadership issue that everybody's turning over underneath that leader, or is it just the fact that nobody wants to clean kennels for a long period of time? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:09

Good point. Okay. All right. Um let's see. All right, we're supposed to today, we're going round robin, which means that each of us is going to leave one thing we want listeners to walk away with today. John, do you have one?

SPEAKER_01 24:28

Don't be scared. Don't be scared. If you're doing this, you know, at your desk at home in the evening, and it's a progress, a process you're working on, each step you make is a step in the right direction. Do not fear organizational structure that you're gonna become too corporate. That it's gonna not, it's gonna take that small business family vibe out of that. That's part of your culture, and an org structure will not change that. It only offers clarity. That would be my thing.

SPEAKER_04 24:56

I love that. That's great.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

I was gonna say clarity, John.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

Yeah, well, okay.

SPEAKER_04 25:00

Well, it must be really a good thing. I gotta do it first.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

No, I really think the org chart, again, to his point, it's not so businessy, scary. It's really to help keep everyone on the same page, who reports to who. So you're not getting a million different answers, people telling you one thing, other people telling you different things. So it'll just help with clarity and communication.

SPEAKER_04 25:22

And I would say, as an owner of a practice, don't be afraid to move yourself on the org chart, you know, so that go ahead and one of the biggest mistakes that we will see is that people continue to work in the business and not on it. Don't give themselves time to work on it. You have to move yourself on the org chart in order to be able to free up time to be able to work on the business. And so it's just a factor of life. As you grow, you're just gonna run out of time. Yep. So move yourself on the org chart.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 25:55

All right. All right, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

Yep. All

Outro

SPEAKER_00 25:58

right. So we hope you got a few plays to use for yourself or for your clinic. If you enjoy this conversation, share it with others, leave us a review, and check out vetpracticepro.com for tools and courses that can take your clinic to the next level. We'll see you guys next time.

SPEAKER_04 26:11

See you next time.