How to Get a Promotion or Pay Rise - Without Begging for It

Everyone wants to get paid what they’re worth and be recognised for their work. You’re told that if you perform well, stay loyal, and deliver results, the promotion or pay rise will follow.

But in reality… it often doesn’t.

In this episode of Ella Podcasts, we unpack why career progression isn’t just about performance. From workplace politics and perception to confidence and timing, this conversation looks at what actually drives promotions and salary increases, and why so many capable people get overlooked.

If you’ve ever felt like asking for a pay rise turns you into someone holding a begging bowl, you’re not alone. And more importantly, it doesn’t have to be that way.

Joining me are:
🔹 Ella Sherman – Host, Ella Podcasts
🔹 Dr Jonathan Marshall – Clinical Psychologist and former professor
🔹 Chris J Reed – LinkedIn expert and personal branding specialist
🔹 Aya Alimkulova – HR & Beyond podcast host and regional sales expert

Together, we bring honest perspectives, practical strategies, and a few uncomfortable truths into a conversation about how careers really work behind the scenes.

Together, we discuss:
• whether promotions are really about performance, or perception and politics
• why some average performers move up faster than high performers
• how visibility and personal branding impact your career progression
• how to ask for a pay rise without damaging your internal reputation
• why documenting your achievements throughout the year matters more than you think
• how to clearly communicate your value in a way that gets recognised
• when negotiating aggressively works and when it can backfire
• why having another offer can completely change the conversation
• what really happens with counteroffers and why they’re not always a win
• the reality of “quiet quitting” and how it affects your long-term career

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Hard work alone does not guarantee career progression
• Promotions are influenced by visibility, perception, and internal politics
• If you don’t ask, you are unlikely to get a pay rise
• Confidence in negotiation comes from preparation and evidence
• You need to actively communicate your value, not assume it’s seen
• Counteroffers and aggressive negotiation can have hidden consequences
• Long-term career growth requires strategy, not just effort

Your company will always optimise for its own interests. The question is, are you doing the same for yours?

If you’ve ever felt stuck, undervalued, or unsure how to move forward in your career, this episode will give you a more realistic lens, and practical ways to approach your next conversation.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:07

Hello, I'm Ella, and this is Ella Podcast. Everybody wants to get paid what they're worth and get promoted. All being told you'll be rewarded for hard work, producing results, and loyalty to the company. But in reality, you don't always get to see the career growth that you deserve. Why does negotiating your promotion or salary increase feel like you've got a begging bowl out rather than having your worth simply recognized and fairly compensated? Here to offer their thoughts on how to get that promotion or pay rise are Dr. Jonathan Marshall, a leading psychologist and a former professor. He's a Stanford and Harvard University graduate. He offers perspective and practical advice to help people. You've got Chris J. Reed here and his mega mohawk. He's the founder of Black Marketing, the world's leading company for enhancing your personal branding on LinkedIn. He helps clients in many ways, including finding new jobs and getting headhunted. He has four international best-selling books in LinkedIn marketing. And we also have Aya Limkolova, and she's the host of the popular podcast HR and Beyond. She has a master's in economics and works as a regional sales expert for an MNC. Okay, guys. So first question, and I'll fire this one on to Jonathan. Are promotions and pay rises about performance or are they about perception and politics?

SPEAKER_01 1:33

The London Business School founded it's actually about three things. One is performance for sure. And the other is image, and the third is exposure. Doing working well and hard and doing a great job for your boss is part of the equation. But unless you have a good image and you are you're getting exposure, well, you might be stuck where you are.

SPEAKER_04 1:52

I'm talking about image.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

Part of it is marketing.

SPEAKER_04 1:56

Yes, and some people are very good at marketing up and then others aren't. Yep, absolutely. And I've seen very mediocre performers do very well because they manage so well up, and everyone at the top thinks they're great, but people at their level and below know they're not great.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

So well it can be a double-edged sword, you know. Basically, if you have a high profile, for example, on LinkedIn, you can be seen as a threat to the senior people. So they they might basically not promote you because you might say, Oh, he's coming after my job, always going to come and take the company over or take the company in a different direction. But it will get you noticed, and therefore, if you perform as well as getting noticed, then you're more likely to be promoted because they know that you could else you could go elsewhere because you're more likely to be headhunted as well.

SPEAKER_04 2:36

Yeah, that's very, very true. Um, does negotiating too aggressively damage your internal brand? I think this one will be for you, Chris. Branding.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

I don't think so, no, because you have to know your value, and you also have to be prepared to walk away. Several times in my career before I became an entrepreneur, I basically was given, you know, this pay wise, this bonus, and saying, nope, I'm deserve this, and these are the reasons why I brought the business in, I'm marketing the company. If you don't give me it, I'm gonna go somewhere else, elsewhere, and do it. And sure enough, it works. If you say no to someone, it's very powerful. No, I'm not gonna accept that. I can walk away. Um, you have to have confidence in yourself, you have to value yourself enough. As long as you can stack it up, that's the key. Obviously, if you can't stack it up, then you're gonna lose lose. But if you want to stack it up and they win and you win, then everyone wins. And it's a question of the boss basically seeing the big picture. So you've got to go hard and be prepared to walk away. And sometimes you do have to walk away.

SPEAKER_03 3:27

Yeah, I agree. I think what Chris is mentioning is that you do need to articulate your value. Uh, you can't just like demand like, oh, I want a 30% increase. Why? Because I have a newborn child, right? So it doesn't really bring any value, right? But if you manage to show that what you've done last year, uh how many clients you brought, if you're let's say in sales, or how much contribution you've done, um, it's then you can easily articulate that value. But again, goes back to also to another point, right? Uh what what I what are you asking is a reasonable amount. So it goes back to the point that have you done your market research? Uh what's the benchmarking for your role? Uh how valuable you are in the organization. So all these three things justify then the increase that you're asking your boss.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

I think you can be too aggressive, especially if you're a woman or a minority. Harvard Kennedy School found that if you come in too hard, you you get punished later. And so you might get more of what you want, but there'll be other ways people find to get back at you.

SPEAKER_04 4:26

And I think what's important is to not just come at your manager once a year with with your demands.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:34

You know, it's almost like you should do a monthly review of your achievements. Yep. Make a note of your achievements because you do forget month to month. And then during your performance evaluation, you only remember what you've done very recently. So, you know, how do document what you've achieved and go through that with your manager.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

Communications and marketing, letting people know how well you've done each month.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

Totally right. Image exposure performance, just drip-drip the whole year in.

SPEAKER_02 4:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

And if you haven't done very well, put on LinkedIn, you have done well, and therefore it compensates. And the old boss goes, Damn! I don't want to drop a pay rise this week, but he basically is getting all these views, all this engagement from my company, let well have to you.

SPEAKER_04 5:12

Yeah. And just talking from personal experience, I have to say, as much as I consider myself a good negotiator and things like employee relations, when it's come to negotiating pay rises myself, I don't feel like I've been particularly successful.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Is that because you think you're a woman?

SPEAKER_04 5:27

Ah well, I've I've always been told, oh, if if you get a pay rise, we'll have to do it for everybody. That's not true. You know, and I I guess I've often worked for companies in the recent past that pay probably a bit below market rate. So if suddenly they give you market rate, they've got a problem because you've got lots of people who aren't on market rate.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

I'm not sure that's true. I mean, it's like if you look at a football team, basically, not everyone on a football team is on the same salary because everyone has different skills and experience, everyone does different things in different ways. And there's no way you could ever have a football team on the same amount of salary. And the same with the company. I mean, I run companies uh, you know, for the last 30 years employing people. I've never ever had, you know, we will employ this level at this level, at this person, this level, because it's all about if somebody comes in who's a rock star, I'm gonna pay them more because I want to get them. I'm not gonna say, you know, you're gonna have the same as this salary because I'm gonna lose them. I mean, going back to the football analogy, that does happen. People say, Well, we the maximum we can pay is here, but if someone is life-changing who comes in, like the good great example is David Beckham. When David Beckon basically went from all his Real Madrid to into Milan to PSG, he basically said, I'm coming in, I'm gonna sell 10 million um shirts, therefore I am worth$100 million to you, and I want$50 million for that. So they smashed the wages because they could, well, you basically put a commercial ROI case in place to say why we should pay you. So one of the other stars said, Why is David Beckham getting paid so much? He could say, Well, are you gonna sell a hundred million shirts? No, you're not. Well, shut up then. Yeah, but Beckham did. He went beyond that. Every single point.

SPEAKER_04 7:04

It's such a niche thing. I mean, in your average company, and I think particularly when you're in a back office operational role where you're you can't be judged on how much money you make in a company. You're a support function. And I do feel support functions get the raw end of the target. How do you measure that? How do you measure it? Uh well, there is benchmarking, and it's really important that when you do look at what is my value, you've got to look at the industry in, you've got to look at the country you're in. There's no point coming out with a figure and it it doesn't actually relate to the act the role you're performing. So you have to be very specific about the benchmark.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

In that, can you, for example, if you're working for a local company, can you then say, but this multinational is paying this, or is the local company just gonna go, well, go and work for the multinational?

SPEAKER_04 7:49

Exactly that, yeah. So, you know, if you're working for a boutique firm, you can't expect to get the same salary as working for an MNC. Um, and you know, that's part and parcel of the course, but uh it's not always easy.

SPEAKER_03 8:03

Probably be different as well, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:05

Well, I think sometimes actually you have more work if you're in a boutique too and you're very lean and you're doing everything.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

Um but I would say you you have more hands-on exposure, therefore, you're more likely to grow up as a leader and have more experience, whereas an MNC you are very siloed, you will do this particular job because otherwise you'll step against somebody else's toes.

SPEAKER_04 8:23

And then what's gutting is when you leave, um, because you don't get the pay rise, and you know, you leave, and then you find they ended up paying the next person 30% more than what you were getting. And I've had that before, and that's infuriating because you because you would have stayed.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

Why does that happen? Because I've heard of that happening quite a lot. Why does that happen, John?

SPEAKER_01 8:40

And it's so expensive because you bring in a new employee, and that can cost 50% to 200% more than if you just kept the old one. But why do companies do that? To attract the new talent. Maybe they just go, you know, we don't like her anymore. So you know, like she wants a raise. We don't want a raise. Uh you know, let's get that shiny thing. Or now that that person's definitely going, you're like, damn, we uh we we we missed that one. So now let's uh make sure the new one is uh get gets a sweeter deal. Or you know the person who's coming in is walking into a toxic situation, and you're like, let's just sweeten it. I remember one company I worked for, uh or that I consulted to, there was a department that was just chronically horrible, and the number of clinical uh um the number of referrals for clinical health issues from that department were very high. And so when they bring someone in, it's like no one will last unless the money is really good. And so the more that became clear, they're like, all right, we're just like gonna keep paying out for people in that department. Wow, compensation not changing the culture. That was the amazing thing. Like how hard can it be? The department's not huge, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 9:47

Aya, have you had situations where you've negotiated a pay rise or a promotion? Yes, of course. Uh you say, of course, apparently, only a third of people have ever asked their managers pay rises and promotions. A third.

SPEAKER_03 10:03

I'm actually not surprised because it's such a sensitive discussion. As a woman, especially, you sometimes feel like, oh, am I asking something that I shouldn't be asking? Or sometimes you think they should see the value that I'm bringing, so I don't have to communicate that, right? But I do think that this mindset may not necessarily be the right one because ultimately you should think the management has so much to do, right? They have so many employees, especially it's a multinational organization. So it's very difficult for them to know what you want. So maybe you're happy what you're doing, and like five to ten percent increase is good for you. Uh maybe you're not even looking around because you are very comfortable in that organization. So if it's important for you, especially the pay, it's usually important for everyone. But if it's very important, just make sure that you prepared for that communication. And I remember when um a few years back, I actually got uh my personal professional coach, right? And something she taught me about the negotiations that make sure that before you go to the performance review, you actually prepare a presentation so that you are convinced the value that you're bringing. Because a lot of times, like oh but I've just done my job, right? But then when you actually start reflecting, wow, I actually did this, I did that, and there could be uh tangible, I guess, impact, right? There could be certain things like event organizing, right? Or something more operational, you know, improvements that aren't invisible, but it's it's bringing a huge uh benefit to the organization. So make sure that you can articulate that, and once you are convinced, you can actually convince the management as well, or at least try to do that.

SPEAKER_00 11:43

I think every single job I've ever had before I become an entrepreneur at 30, basically, I've asked for pay rights because I can see the social because I could see the impact I was having. So literally, if you double revenues, you find new revenue streams, you're going, I want more money. But I was also fired from four of those jobs for basically then because you get too high to the sun.

SPEAKER_04 12:03

Here it's all coming out now.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

It does happen. Basically, you then have a like a target on you. So, well, he wants this much money, we're gonna make sure he basically makes this much money. And by that stage, other people are going, why is he being paid that much money? And then they're targeting you as well. So that's when the politics comes in. And I'm terrible at politics, as you probably realize. So, like, you know, you know, that's when I became an entrepreneur and worked for myself and report to myself because you do have a target on your back once you have a get a bonus or get a pay rise, not just from your boss, but from your peers, who now know because everyone knows how much people are being paid, that you're being paid more because you asked for it.

SPEAKER_04 12:36

Well, they shouldn't know in theory, it should be confidential. The opposite.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

When one university wanted to poach me from another, the vice dean said to me, How much do you want? And I said, Anything that you'll pay me. Anything. I said, I'll say anything that you'll pay me. And when the university that I wanted to leave, because I I was, I didn't, this came out of the blue. And and the the dean said to me, All right, how much do you want? And I said, You could promise me the world, I will be gone. Wow. No, it was that bad. And and uh half, like when and while I was at the second university, I I at some point confessed to the vice dean, look, another university asked for me to uh to to join them and just letting you know I turned them down. And he looked at me and goes, You are as naive as you look. Why did you not bring that document to the dean? I said, I didn't want the dean to think I'd be disloyal. And he's like, he will only respect you if he thinks you might be disloyal. So I don't do as I say, not as I do.

SPEAKER_04 13:36

And I think that is part of the problem. A lot of people feel very shy when it comes to negotiating salary and negotiating promotions. Exception credit, let's face it.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Not everyone has a self-order and do not know your self-word, brilliant. What are you doing working for someone?

SPEAKER_04 14:00

Um, you know, it can also backfire on you. I mean, I've had people who've come to HR and said, Oh, I've got another job offer. Um, and HR, you know, the managers basically said, Okay, they can go and we accept their resignation, and the person is saying, Oh, but what about the counteroffer? And there is no counter offer.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

They don't want that person. Most people who accept a counter offer are gone within one to one year to one and a half years. Right. So it's kind of like we can offer a counter-offer, but the chances are they're gonna go.

SPEAKER_03 14:29

Yeah, yeah. And you lose credibility as well. If you keep coming back, you can do it once, maybe in three years, five years, right? But if you come back next year again, oh I got a new job offer, you'll be like, okay, just go.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

I feel like you you can do it for as long as it's real. Like, you know, it's like I really am gonna go if you guys don't up your game.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

But I also think you can add in things like bonuses. I've had situations where basically they you know the bonuses in your contract and it's basically negotiable. So there they made this off, and I'm going, no, no, that I believe I should be both the bonus should be this. I think a bonus is easier to get increased rather than a salary, because a salary is a commitment for a year and it has ramifications if you get made redundant. But if you get a bonus, then they can basically save face and say, Okay, we gave them a bit more, you feel like you won because you've got a bit more, and they haven't affected the salary. So then that's a win-win. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:17

Many people want to have that steady income every month.

SPEAKER_00 15:22

But it's better than nothing.

SPEAKER_04 15:23

True, true.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

But like shares if you work for an MNC or even an SME, if you get some shares in place of as long as you know they're real shares and may vest, and there might be a value. That might say, well, you know, you're gonna get shares instead of the salary, and then you have to make a decision whether you want that or not.

SPEAKER_04 15:38

But read the small print on shares, as I recently discovered, because they might say, Oh, we're retrenching you and uh and we fulfill shares.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

Very famous, um very famous beer company today when basically when do but two billion dollars sorry, three billion dollars down to fifty million because and now all the shareholders lost all their money because basically in the small print it said if this happens and this happens, this person can buy this company for$50 million. And so all the original shareholders, and that's particularly very famous company, uh, basically lost all their money.

SPEAKER_04 16:07

Wow, wow.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

So that can happen.

SPEAKER_04 16:10

Yeah, so going back to confidence, you know, how to how to have that confidence um to have the conversation.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

I think to know your best alternative to an agreement. So you want X, and if they're gonna say no, think about what is your alternative. If you've got an alternative going in, that alone can create a lot of confidence. Well, I'm gonna walk or I'm gonna ask this, you know, I'm gonna move elsewhere. And and I think that's the simplest way is to walk into a negotiation knowing what your alternative is.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

Yeah, bluffing's not a good idea. Bluffing can maybe work a couple of times, but somebody's got a really good phone. Bluffing's not a great idea. Because you do have to follow through with it and basically say, I'm not gonna give you a payment and say, I'm gonna be off then. Well, there's the dog. Ah damn.

SPEAKER_04 16:57

And I think people are doing that more and more. They are lining up their next role, and they do. I think counteroffers become the norm now.

SPEAKER_02 17:04

Definitely.

SPEAKER_04 17:04

And I've often as HR felt like we're a bit held to ransom as people come in and say, Oh, counter this. And it's it's so casual now.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

But also, counters can be. I mean, when I employed, well, been offered this VP role over here, can you match it? And there was no salary increase. It was just a title thing. I went, Well, of course. In fact, I'll make you a senior VP. Because it's meaningless to me. I don't care what they're called, but if it makes them feel better, then of course you're gonna basically say you can be the same. Indeed, higher higher levels. But sometimes in a in a status-led society, for example, like Asia, it's much more about the title than it is about the money.

SPEAKER_03 17:41

I would just add that preparation is important as well. Just make sure you have your points, what you want to say during the meeting. Don't expect them to talk and um cherish all your achievements throughout the year. So I think you need to lead the most of the meeting actually and uh presentation, yeah, about how good you are. Yeah, I mean if you are if you don't, if you are a bit need some support, the presentation is a good way to do that.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

People who are shy and have low self-esteem is the idea that you know it just piles on, it's harder and harder. Those who are uh are brash um do better and better.

SPEAKER_04 18:17

Yeah, and I used to say as HR, it's the ones who ask are the more likely to get it. And it's amazing how many people would come to me and say, Oh, do you think I'd be able to get a pay rise? And and I'd be like, Well, have you spoken to your boss? Oh no, no, no. So, you know, you do have to offer it.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

Don't ask, don't get it.

SPEAKER_04 18:35

And unfortunately, I mean, I've come from very much a trading brokerage background, and it was whoever shouts loudest gets. I mean, it it did come down to someone would have a bit of a tantrum or a hissy free.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

I mean, Jonathan and I are uh entrepreneurs. If you don't ask people for money, they don't give you money. It's literally as simple as that. So basically, you grow up basically asking people for money because otherwise you don't have a business. So it's the same thing in terms of employee, you have to ask, yeah, otherwise you don't get it. Yeah, what's the worst that can happen? They can say no.

SPEAKER_04 19:03

Exactly. And I think you also need to ask your manager, you know, how can your role evolve so that that they're offering more value, doing more for the company, you know, what projects can you help them with? Because I think if you if you make it into a positive conversation, like you want to take on some more responsibility, more employees, we've got you expect also to be compensated for that. That's a different conversation.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

There's also training as well. People could ask for training, say, no, you can't have a payway. Say, well, can I have additional training instead then? Because that's something they probably can have a margin on, they're not going to pay you the full whack, therefore they might give you that, makes you feel better, you you've got something from them, and again, it's a win-win.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

A colleague of mine uh started at uh a big company, and on day one on the onboarding, the HR rep said, you know, congratulations, welcome to the company. You need to start looking for your next job. That was on day one. And and the point was so shocking, but so good. She made the point like if you want to keep a job here, you need to be preparing right now for the promotion or or the next department or whatever it is, that you need to that it needs to begin today, but don't expect your manager to look after you. Yes, I don't know if that's gonna happen, but but you're naive to think that that's that works very well. And I was like, wow, that I just thought that was great.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

Well, you weren't for McKinsey, didn't you?

SPEAKER_01 20:17

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

But you I think you advised McKinsey or something, didn't you? Something like that. So I mean Kinsey notoriously get rid of 10% of their workforce every year, don't they? So basically, if you don't perform, you're out. Yeah. So you have to show what you've given in terms of evidence of you know why you are worth being uh part of the McKinsey Empire. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:34

And just generally, we are now in the era where you are not sure whether your job's gonna be in five, ten years. So you always need to work exactly next year. Next week and you have to keep working on uh your career portfolio. What else can you do? What else can you you know learn? And that's more important than ever right now, in fact.

SPEAKER_04 20:57

So when is the right time to stop the negotiations and find a new role?

SPEAKER_01 21:04

I think find the new role, but perhaps alternative before the negotiations. But uh leave when you think you can be happier elsewhere, and money is only money and prestige are only elements of that. The the people, the meaning, your passion for the job are all part of it. But when the equation is I think there's a good chance that elsewhere is better, that I think is probably the time to leave.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

And also if you realize that corporate, um I realize that corporate culture was not for me, so I became an entrepreneur. But I was always going to become an entrepreneur because my father's an entrepreneur, my uncle's an entrepreneur, my grandfather's an entrepreneur, because it was in my DNA, but I knew I couldn't be an entrepreneur at 16, so I had to you know work in some multinationals first, learn about the ropes, make some contacts, and then switch over and I was 30 to become an entrepreneur. So if you know that, then you've got a plan and a career plan to actually say, Okay, it doesn't matter how many times I get fired between there, as long as I get experience and contacts, because at this age I'm gonna be an entrepreneur anyway. And if you know that, then you know that. But other people never want to become an entrepreneur, so they have Kind of plan in terms of what's my career going to look like for the next 20, 30 years, and how am I going to get to be valuable in 20 years' time? Much harder now with AI, of course.

SPEAKER_04 22:09

And then there are situations where you're working for a lovely company, you enjoy the company, the people, love your team. Maybe you're not being paid as well as you should be, but there are other good things about the role. And then you have to make that decision of are you going to jeopardize that for something that yes, it might be paying 20% more, but what if you're working in a pretty toxic environment or you don't particularly like the people you work with? So there are lots of things to think about. It's not just about the money.

SPEAKER_03 22:40

And I've seen also people who've been doing very good in the job, right? Uh they've been progressing, but they're just who are not fulfilled in the job. So I guess it goes back to the internal alignment as well. What you mentioned. So you might, you know, be doing very well in a corporate job, but you want to start something your own, and that's where you want to start taking the risk.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

But it also depends what stage of your career you're up to, whether you have a family, whether you have responsibilities. Now, when I went down from Newcastle to London, for example, to work at Hammersmith Odian, it's the best job in the whole of the world. I got literally got paid to go and watch 200 concerts a year. Go to concerts, market concerts, meet rock stars. It's like you're paying me as well as doing this? I'd do this for free, I'd pay you to do this job. So it wasn't about the money, but then I was like, I was a single person living in a shoebox in London where I was never even there. It was that Hammersmithodian for 20 days of every single day, every single hour, watching these concerts, just learning about the industry and watching these amazing concerts going on. So then you realise, you know, once you start growing up, have a relationship, have getting married, getting babies, all the rest of it, needing a home, you can't do that. You can't work because you love the job. You've got basically got to work and you've got to pay the bills at the same time. So you need to balance that out.

SPEAKER_04 23:50

Yeah, totally. And uh Jonathan, what's what is the meaning of quiet quit quit? We hear this all the time.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

I think it's when you kind of go, This is all you're paying me, so this is all the effort I'm putting in, and that's it. Uh, I I think it's a quiet form of death because you feel miserable because you're not very fulfilled. You get a worse and worse reputation. It's uh if you've got a clear exit, you know that after the bonus is paid in in February that you're uh heading off to another company. Well, quiet quitting, I guess, could make sense. But otherwise, uh yeah, I think it's it's a worst of all worlds.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

And these days, everyone's being measured and monitored. There's no way you can get around quiet quitting because people can see you are quiet quitting and they'll just fire you. Yeah, they'll get rid of you that way. So you got to do it.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

It's not the firing that's so bad, it's the reputational damage. Like this is not someone who's good for the firm. Totally. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

But being fired and then having to explain that to your next player. I was quiet quitting and I got fired for it. That's a very difficult conversation. So hire me! You know, that's that's a very difficult conversation to have, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 24:51

Yeah, but there's a quiet quitting, which I think has its place, which is a bit different. It's like I I worked with a couple of executives who've been thoroughly burned out. They they gave everything, they got burned out, uh, and now the the bosses are abusing them, who are just kind of like going on minimal power just while they recover. And I'm like, to me that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 25:10

Until they get terminated.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's kind of like I'm gonna cruise on through until I'm actually able to bring energy to work.

SPEAKER_04 25:18

Right. Well, they should definitely find a next job.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:22

So what what brings uh more life satisfaction? A promotion or a raise?

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Promotion, definitely promotion. More power, yeah. I'd say it depends on your age. If you're if you if you're in your 50s or 60s or whatever, it may be being, you know, SVP sounds cool, but I I want to see more money in the bank account because you're not looking at a big trajectory from which you're going to bounce from this title to the next title. So I think it does depend.

SPEAKER_03 25:51

I think both should come hand on hand. Because if sometimes when people get promoted, they think, oh, so you're giving me more work on a uh at the same salary without an increase. So it may actually have a different meaning if you don't even do any increase.

SPEAKER_00 26:05

But if you enjoy it, then you don't mind taking it on, and then you basically, you know, you know, your LinkedIn fires up saying, I've been promoted to SVP, I'm now in control of the world. You know, here we go.

SPEAKER_04 26:13

Yeah, it could be for some people. Okay, so we've got our final closing round. Uh-huh. Quick positive thoughts on how to negotiate that pay rise or promotion. Chris.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

Go in hard and say why you're worth it.

SPEAKER_04 26:26

And make sure you've got backup jobs.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

Definitely. But Jennifer Aniston was right, you know, I'm worth it.

SPEAKER_04 26:33

Love it. Flick your hair as well.

SPEAKER_03 26:38

Be prepared. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

Start preparing for your next job at day one of your current job. Yeah. Start immediately.

SPEAKER_04 26:46

And a frivolous point. Apparently, if you're female, wear red lipstick as you do it. Apparently, red lipstick is for closers. It might work for you. But uh, apparently for the ladies, it makes you way more powerful and might need to close the deal.

SPEAKER_02 27:02

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_04 27:04

Well, thank you for joining Ella Podcast today. Your company will always optimize for its best interest, so you need to negotiate yours. Do your homework, know your market rate salary, audit your value, document your impact for a promotion, and have that conversation. Most importantly of all, negotiate from strength, not emotion, and realize that hope is sadly not a successful strategy. If you want to suggest a topic for our next episode, please pin our Facebook group at Ella Podcasts and message us. Please subscribe, rate, and share the podcast. Wishing you all the best of luck with your negotiations and sending you a big lucky hug.