How to Deal With a Toxic or Narcissistic Boss Without Losing Yourself

Most people will face a difficult boss at some point in their career. But when that boss is narcissistic, controlling, or lacking empathy, it can slowly erode your confidence, mental health, and sense of self.

In this episode of Ella Podcasts, we explore what it’s really like to work under a toxic boss and why so many people stay longer than they should. From workplace politics and micromanagement to emotional strain and loss of confidence, this is an honest conversation about a reality many people experience but rarely talk about openly.

In this episode I’m joined by:
 • Dr Jonathan Marshall, Clinical Psychologist and former professor
 • Chris J Reed, LinkedIn expert and personal branding specialist
 • Sandy Bansal, Headteacher, International School

Together, we explore:
 • the traits of narcissistic and toxic leaders
 • how power and workplace dynamics shape behaviour
 • the psychological impact of working in a toxic environment
 • why people stay in unhealthy roles for years
 • how to protect your confidence and mental wellbeing
 • when it’s time to leave and move on

This episode is a reminder that no job is worth sacrificing your mental health.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:07

Hello, I'm Ella, and this is Ella Podcasts. Many of us have had to put up with a bad or narcissistic boss at some point in our career. It's not easy to identify these people during the interview process. The demanding boss who expects your loyalty but gives none back. The master manipulator only interested in their own career progression. The one who belittles you in meetings, the leader who always takes credit for your work, power hungry and full of ego. Unfortunately, your boss controls your rewards and recognition. How do you manage this difficult and often awful situation? Today, to offer practical advice on this subject are Dr. Jonathan Marshall. He's a leading psychologist and a former professor. He's a Stanford and Harvard University graduate, and he offers perspective and practical advice to help people. We also have with us Chris J. Reid and his amazing hairdo. Lovely colours today. And he is the founder of Black Marketing, which is the world's leading company for enhancing your personal branding on LinkedIn. He helps his clients in many ways, including finding new jobs and getting headhunted. He has four international best-selling books on LinkedIn marketing. And we also have today, all away from Uganda, Sandy Basmel, and she's the head teacher at an international school in Uganda. She's spent the last 25 years in the education sector in the UK, Italy, Sweden, and Uganda. Sandy promotes innovation, inclusivity, and transformational leadership while championing the power of technology and creativity in her schools. Okay, let's start with Jonathan. What qualities do bad and narcissistic bosses typically display?

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Well, narcissists are people with a strong sense of entitlement, generally very low empathy, those two things go together. And you can often detect them by tremendous sensitivity to criticism.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Two of your friends, Donald Trump and Elon Musk, are both uh narcissistic.

SPEAKER_04 2:17

It's not politics.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

In terms of being bosses, they're narcissistic bosses. But narcissism has a bad word, right? Like we can think narcissists, it's sort of stinky, but but actually hopefully we all have some level of healthy narcissism. Like there's there's too little narcissism. Like, I don't feel entitled to ask my teacher a question. That's a lack of healthy narcissism. So that confidence? It is. I mean, and and I I think sort of like it's tough to really discriminate where the bad stuff begins and the good stuff ends. I think we've we've pathologized it terribly. But certainly at the far end of the spectrum, it sticks.

SPEAKER_04 2:50

Okay. And Chris, do you think it's a good idea to confront a bad boss?

SPEAKER_01 2:55

Yes, but it'll always end in disaster.

SPEAKER_04 2:57

Because fisticuffs.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

But if you are both alpha male, they didn't pay me. So basically they led me to believe I was going to be, you know, I was the CMO of two companies and they ran out of money within a month and they didn't tell me this. And of course, after a month, you can't like leave because you've been in the PR saying, oh, you know, the CMO of this company. And so you're you're set up to have an argument on a daily basis with someone because you're effectively you're paying to work for him. And basically he protect he basically said he had money coming in. So you're always going to have that, especially and then if that person has no empathy, is complete narcissist, is a psychotic, like you know, lunatic, as two of those guys were, um, basically that sets you up. But and also if you're an alpha male anyway, you're always going to be pushing to go harder, and um, you're never going to accept the boss above you because you're always gonna believe you can do a better job as well. And again, you're not gonna win that argument unless you are the boss. So why would you have that argument then? If you're if you believe, come back to confidence, if you believe that you're right, and you believe that you're basically being taken advantage of, for example, or not being paid the much or not given the credit where credit is being due or being discriminated against for whatever reason, then you're gonna, you know, someone like myself would take it out on somebody, even if they uh if if they even if the experience means you're being fired and you have to start again. That's just basically and you learn by those lessons, you learn never to work for anybody else ever again and become an entrepreneur, basically.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

Right.

SPEAKER_04 4:21

Well, talking of lessons, I've I do have friends who work in international schools, and I I've learned it's a bit of a hotbed for personalities and clashes and things going on. So, Sandy, I know you've obviously worked in education for 25 years. What are the characteristics of the worst bosses you've got?

SPEAKER_03 4:39

I think it's the same as what Jonathan said, it's that lack of empathy. Um I just feel like uh when when you're supposed to be a role model in education to the young people, and then you have a boss that is on your back because of lack of empathy, because of uh self low self-esteem, and you know you can do a better job, but then they know you can do a better job, and then they're out to get you. So every little thing you do, it's like why? And then you do you do feel that uh self-doubt coming. Yeah, self-doubt. You feel low and you think doubt yourself, like should I, should I not? So there's um so it's also micromanaging, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 5:23

When someone is watching, micromanager is the worst, the worst possible thing you could do to anybody. And it's also not very healthy for the boss because you become totally obsessed. I mean, I've been guilty of that in the past when I used to work in London and I was an entrepreneur, and I was basically it's my money paying for the salaries, you know. I'm a big micromanager, and that was the worst thing I could do because basically they will just you know leave at some point because they don't want to work for micromanager, and it also wasn't very healthy with you because you're basically obsessing of every single email, every single text. Where are they? What are they doing here? And then when you basically your what and that ends up happening, is that those people do get uh taken to by a competitor, which happened to me a couple of times, and then you get even more angry, go, what did I do wrong? You know, like gave her the promotion, I gave her the you know the pay rise, whatever, and she's still stabbed me in the back and work for somebody else, and then you basically reinforce why you were micromanaging to start off with, and again, that's not very healthy for anybody at all. So you've maybe got to step back and basically just learn to trust people and empower people, or do what I do now and just let somebody else handle it.

SPEAKER_04 6:19

Yeah, and I think everyone at some stage, unless you're really lucky, has had a bad boss, and um you know, unfortunately, it does touch us all. And I had a boss when I first moved here, and uh, I was working for the daughter of the founder of a big local bank, so one of the richest families in the country, and and she was an utter nightmare to work for. She would literally have all her staff kind of sit in a a weird design, so your your back was against the wall and you're all facing out, so it's like a square. And I did when I first joined, I thought, what's that about? And then the reason why is because she liked to grab a vase, I'm not kidding you, and if she was in having a hissy fit, she'd throw it at you, it would smash behind your head on the wall. I worked like that for six months, and by the end of it, I was an absolute wreck.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

I thought you were gonna buy invest in vase companies and sell them to her.

SPEAKER_04 7:17

That was her signature move, and she would make people quake. I mean, you could see these poor people going bright red and kind of trembling, and then it'd be the vase being thrown against the wall, and it was it was horrific. And I asked some people, wait, how long have you worked here? And it'd be like eight years, ten years. Wow. I'd be like, Oh my god, I can't, I just can't. Did they have Stockholm Syndrome kind of thing?

SPEAKER_01 7:40

They were basically hostages of their own misfortune, basically.

SPEAKER_04 7:44

It was so bad. And then she was also a boss that liked to gloat, so she would have literally jewellers would come into the office. They'd open up all these cases of diamond encrusted Rolexes and Patek Philippe's, all of this, and she'd be going, I had that one, I had that one, I had that one. And in the meantime, in front of the staff. In front of the staff, and it was the most bizarre experience. Is she still around?

SPEAKER_01 8:09

She's still going.

SPEAKER_04 8:10

I actually don't know. She's not someone I look up. I do know she's going straight to hell. So well-deserved first-class, first-class journey to hell. Um dreadful, dreadful woman. And the sad thing is that people in your when you look at your CV when you're you're interviewing for a new role, they always pick out the short stays and they want to know what happened. And it's it's it kind of blights you for the rest of your career because you're always having to explain that.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

Well, I you have to have a good story for that. Yeah, you have to have a good story. I mean, everyone's got that circumstance where they had to leave when the occasions I had here, for example, before I became an entrepreneur here, after I saw my business in the UK, had to explain why two occasions I worked for somebody for six months, but because both of them basically were in financial trouble, they didn't pay me for five of those six months. You have a story to tell. So this happened this, or this will happen this.

SPEAKER_04 9:03

I don't normally reveal the glove the vase is being thrown. But that's it, but it's a reason why.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

But it is a reason why. I mean, if she was doing it and she's a reputation for doing it, they may even know somebody else who the same situation happened. So you they know they can fact-check it and say, Well, Ella, sorry, you have to have that experience.

SPEAKER_04 9:18

I lasted for six months and it was quite amazing.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

Actually, that I did you get dug at good at ducking or something?

SPEAKER_04 9:23

I I think I did, but she actually she didn't throw them as much at me.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

As much at you? Oh.

SPEAKER_04 9:28

How many of these things did she do? I had a couple, but there were some guys who were regular. But uh yeah, it was a bizarre place to work and definitely a horrible boss. But uh yes.

SPEAKER_03 9:44

But don't they say if you're going to talk about your previous boss like that, then the likely chance of you getting a job is like.

SPEAKER_04 10:00

Yeah, no, I scared. I just say always I wanted to work in a more, you know, positive culture. Yeah, yeah. I don't see ducking as part of my job description. What about you, Jonathan? Have you had any horrible bosses?

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Oh, uh yes, I have. I had. I I remember one one uh I was doing my pre-doc, and I had two supervisors. One was like the most fabulous person. I was so lucky to be a supervisee. And the other, um, any anytime she'd supervise me on a client case, would take in great detail explain to me just quite how remarkably stupid I was and how pathetic I was, and how my mind was really deeply below average. And so what I learned to do is I'd go to Jerry, the first guy, and I would present him a case and I would listen to his ideas, and then go to this other lady, and I would present the same case, and she would say, Well, what do you think you should do? And I would come up with Jerry's ideas, none of my ideas, just Jerry's. And Jerry was hugely brilliant. And she would then spend exactly the same amount of time telling and eventually and I was doing my I was writing my dissertation at the time, so she'd still be negative at Jerry's ideas. No, and she would tell me how deeply pathetic they were, and how remarkably and so she would spend so much time explaining how profoundly depraved my mind was to have the ideas which were not mine, they were they were Jerry's. But I didn't have any time for this because I was writing my dissertation and I was down to the wire. Um and and then and then she made the mistake of of saying, accusing me of using her computers for uh online gambling and and pornography. Well, I spoke to the head eventually when when all of this when when I when I submitted my dissertation and I could breathe, I just created a document. I went to the head, I'm like, do you honestly think if I wanted to do online gambling or or look at pornography, I would use her computer. Like let's get real with this. And uh and it was just so incredibly toxic and so bizarre.

SPEAKER_04 12:00

So she had some sort of vendetta against you.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

It turns out there was something that kept happening with white males in this particular environment. And when uh the the big thing they were afraid of is that I would tell my university. And I was like, of course I told them. And and it was the last time they ever got a student from Stanford.

SPEAKER_04 12:17

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

Um but uh Yeah, yeah, no, I've had a few of those. No, she was a boss.

SPEAKER_04 12:22

Or a fruit loop, one or the other. Or both.

SPEAKER_00 12:25

Psychology can attract interesting people.

SPEAKER_04 12:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

But it's probably worse when you have multiple bosses, I think. I used to work in an organization in the in the UK, extremely political, but you have multiple bosses. Um basically you you have one boss which is the marketing person, but he's not really your boss because the editor of the newspaper is the boss. But then there's two editors of two newspapers because one of them's a daily, one of them's a Sunday, and then you have a managing editor kind of in between the two, then you have a managing director over here as well. So you're literally doing I've got to please him and him and him and him and her as well. And if you have to basically play each other off against each other, so you have to sell in your idea to say the Saturday editor, uh, so that the Sunday editor then takes it, and then you don't you do what you do, you say, Yes, it's a great idea. For the Saturday editor thinks it's a really good idea, until you realize they didn't like the Saturday editor. So you wouldn't say it's the Saturday editor's idea, you would say it's the Monday to Friday editor's idea or the managing editor's idea, just to get a decision through. And it was like it was just a minefield of you know, you could you had no clear communication, no demarcation in terms of where your power actually is, and that it didn't last very long there at all because it was just politics. You'd end up doing politics more, you'd actually do your actual job, which was marketing. And so you basically those kind of organizations don't do very well and they have very low uh you know uh status when it comes to people staying there because they just get burnt out or just get sick of the politics and go somewhere else, um, because there's no that's no fun having multiple bosses, which I think is worse. I think it's having multiple bosses, which are all bad, is worse than having kind of one boss, which is very bad.

SPEAKER_04 13:57

Yeah. And then in in corporate settings, do you think the culture protects high performers? So even if they're not a nice boss, they'll still be protected. Absolutely, yeah. Have you seen that in your industry?

SPEAKER_03 14:10

Yeah, because it's performance.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Also, I think it's short-term focused. The person who comes in who ups the numbers for this and next quarter, uh, you you're you're gonna think more about than the long-term cultural damage.

SPEAKER_04 14:23

Absolutely. And have you ever had a boss that takes all the credit for your hard work?

SPEAKER_03 14:28

Oh, definitely. It's always the I've done this, I, I, and I. And then you know that actually it was actually me and my team. We did this, and there's no credit at all for you.

SPEAKER_04 14:44

Because as a boss, because I have led teams in HR, and I've always actually had pleasure in saying this member of my team did all the research for this, or you know, I think it's great when one of your team steps up and you're seeing their skill set, and you know you're in it together as a team. So when you do get these people who are just so power hungry, they want to take credit for everything. It's it really says something about their personality and but often they succeed, after they get promoted.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Yep. Really? So in the realm of the law of the jungle, law of the jungle, yeah. Lions in the top basically taking the food, even though the lioness is the one who basically brought the food to him to start off with.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

Yeah.

unknown 15:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 15:34

Now I know where I've been going wrong. It's been too nice.

SPEAKER_03 15:37

I don't know. I see I I look at it the other way. I've seen how my bosses were, or are, or were, yeah. Um, and then I want to do it the other way around. I don't want to be like them. I want to promote the people be below me because then it shows that I'm a leader that's grown other leaders.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

Until they then promote the person below you.

SPEAKER_03 15:59

Then whatever happens there, it's fine.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

Because that's what can happen as well. I mean, you'd be a nice person here, nice bosses, and basically say, Oh, it was this person down here, they did all the work, and they're the boss you're reporting to go, Well, I've been paying you all this money, I'm gonna pay this person this money, then basically get rid of you. It's like so it can be a double-edged sword.

SPEAKER_04 16:18

Yeah, and it's also the case when I've had team members make a mistake, you know, and for me it's sometimes it can be quite serious if it's around payroll or governance issues or regulatory issues, but I've always seen as the buck stops with me as the leader of that team. So even if I've told them three times before, you know, make sure you don't do this and putting this in measure so this doesn't happen and it happens, I'll still always be the one who takes accountability. But you see other people throwing their team under the bus and uh but if you're the uh if you're CEO, I'm a CEO of my company, I am ultimately responsible.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

Even if I've told the team what to do, even if basically we put measures in place, if they annoy a client and the client then complains to me and basically you know throws their toys out the prime, for example, ultimately it stops with me because I can't say, Well, it was his fault. I'm the CEO. I can't basically be, you know, go down to that level. I have to say, I take responsibility, I am sorry, I apologize. Uh, yes, of course, we'll make it better for you, because you have to. You have to basically learn to kind of move on, not throw your team under the bus. Of course, internally, you then put disciplinary matters in place and maybe fire that person, but to the client, you can't possibly do that. But there are some managers who are quite happy to expose their team and humiliate them and but they lose the and the the notorious ones are football managers who do that, and basically, if they if they once they lose the the the phrase is once they lose the dressing room, they're being fired. Right. It's happened three times to Tottenham this year, for example. They've literally gone through three managers in one season, uh, which is a record, and nothing forests are the same thing because they started blaming the players. Right. And as soon as you start blaming the players, the directors are going, Well, hang on a minute, what am I paying you for? Like, you're fired.

SPEAKER_04 17:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

And so it's the number one way to get fired.

SPEAKER_04 17:57

And you're never gonna get the best out of your team if you start correcting them for the same.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

They're gonna deliberately play now to lose the match, so you do get fired. Right. So you should never ever do that.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

Yeah. Well, I did a little bit of work for some hard drive companies uh when I was in grad school. And at that time, grad hard drive companies were were vicious. And there was one particular CEO who was famous for having the person who he wanted to target come in late for a meeting, he would say 8.30 instead of 8.15. And for those 15 minutes, he'd have all executives rehears how they were going to interrogate and terrorize this person. Wow. It was it was a well-orchestrated, full boardroom humiliation. And uh yeah, that that was not unusual in that industry.

SPEAKER_04 18:38

Yeah, so how does working how does working for a horrible boss or a narcissist change someone's confidence or mental health long term?

SPEAKER_03 18:49

Um I think it does have those um long-term effects, you know, that self-doubt, the uh stress, you know, getting up in the mornings, you know, do I want to go to work?

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Yeah, you don't want to get an email. The worst ones nowadays, I think, is because you have WhatsApp and you have uh email, one of the bosses here, for example, he would love basically sending nasty emails or vicious emails or WhatsApps in the middle of the night at different times, and basically so you would dread opening up the email, you would dread opening up the WhatsApp because then you'd have a panic attack and play, oh god, you know, what's it doing now? And then you can't eat, you can't sleep, and you feel sick, and you don't want to work there. And that's the worst you can do when you basically someone you fear someone's communications, that's terrible.

SPEAKER_04 19:31

Yeah, and I did read an article saying, you know, a lot of us try and kind of hold out and say, Well, I'll work at least a year for this company, but in reality, just you need to get out of here. Your mental health isn't working because these people are not gonna change in the same way, you're not gonna change, your husband or wife's not gonna change, your boss is not gonna change. Um, I I even with training, I still think they revert back to type. So the best thing is to get yourself out of that toxic workplace and and find your next role. But uh, I think a lot of people stick it out for way too long, yeah, and then when they eventually leave, no one ever says, Oh, I wish I'd stuck it out for longer with that awful boss of mine. I mean, you never say that, do you? But uh anyway, I lasted six months, but by the end I was a tortured soul. I've always wanted to throw a vase at her head go round her house and just throw lots of hairs there. No, I wouldn't. I rise above it. Really? I'll let karma. Have you heard of any revenge stories where people have oh in my mind, yeah. I know we all fantasize about it, but have any has anyone actually gone after their toxic boss? And I know, not personally.

SPEAKER_01 20:57

I've I've sued a couple and it's basically it has paid out, and it there is some kind of retribution and but it's uh there's a stress involved in that as well, because they have lawyers, you have lawyers, and the your money's going out, they don't care about their money. And court cases are never nice because you're totally unpredictable. Even if you settle, you have six months of stress. So that's but it makes you feel kind of better. It makes you feel like you were right because you basically got fired in the wrong way or they treated you badly, but ultimately you have to move on.

SPEAKER_03 21:25

Yeah. But hasn't there been the cases in America? Yeah, yeah. There and in China with the stabbings.

SPEAKER_04 21:36

So I often say as a joke, working in HR, I said it's a good job. I'm I'm not in a country where you have the right to bear arms. But um no, you can see why some people I mean, I'm not condoning it at all, I don't think it's the right way to go, but you can see why some people, if they've had the most awful boss kind of diminishing their self worth and self- That they get to that point of wanting to take action against them.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

I know a a family tragic story where the employee wanted to come after the boss, but on that day the boss wasn't in his office. And so this employee just decided to go to the next office. And so they're all bereaved. Um complete random, like holy like how you know, how do you live with that?

SPEAKER_04 22:25

Yeah, that's that's really sad, and that should never happen, and we're not encouraging that whatsoever. But I think the biggest message is really to get yourself out of that environment and look for your new job. So, Jonathan, do you think it's possible for companies to screen bad traits of new employees before they even join?

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Yeah, not perfectly, but there there are instruments like the Hogan's, there are some very sophisticated interview uh techniques that do help screen. Uh doing research, find out the people who from whom this candidate didn't have anything to benefit, how did he treat them? Uh that that's a really good question. You know, those people who won't, you know, can't help the that guy, that person you're you're interviewing, how how do they feel about that person? Those are some kind of clever ways in. It's not perfect, but absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

Do you believe in references?

SPEAKER_00 23:15

Yeah, yes, I do, but I think if you can there there are real references and not so real references. Yeah.

unknown 23:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:22

And I mean there's a lot of talk about leadership training, manager training, but I I read that most managers have been managers for 11 years before they even receive manager training. Yeah, and that's probably a big part of the problem. That's you know, people get promoted, they kind of get promoted into manager roles despite not having manager experience. And there's a lot of people out there who are not natural managers, they haven't got a clue, or even they're bad managers, and they still don't have a clue. But if they're not getting the training, you know, they're never going to kind of think about the way they behave, the way they're getting their team to work.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

Also, once you've been a manager for several years, whatever you now learn is is sort of small compared to the experience you have. The training early is when you when you want it. That's where it's gonna make the most difference.

SPEAKER_04 24:09

So I think companies, I think they should really invest in training new managers immediately, because that will stop a lot of the the issues that come in.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

But from a company's point of view, you don't know who to invest the money into. So you're not gonna invest your money into everybody to become a manager because they're not gonna become managers. So you need to invest in the people who are gonna become managers long term, and that might take a couple of years to find out who are the best managers, who are the best people.

SPEAKER_04 24:33

Yeah, well, maybe just as they get promoted to manager, they have to undergo a week's training on how to be a good manager.

SPEAKER_03 24:41

But I also think it's not training, I think it's a personality. You know, you can train someone as much as you want to. Yeah, yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

So a psychopath, I'm a psychopath, you know.

unknown 24:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 24:56

Well, last final round of um tips of what to do if you've got a horrible boss. Sandy.

SPEAKER_03 25:03

Okay, so my tips um is it's called the three P's, not your garden piece. So, first of all, don't ever take it personal because it's not you, it's them. The second one is performance. Don't underperform, but you know, keep performing what you're doing because you know you're doing well and you've got your ethics in there. And the last one um is power. Oh, big one. Okay, your network, LinkedIn, for example, your friend's network. You know, keep that updated with all the good things you're doing. Okay, Chris?

SPEAKER_01 25:45

Um, get recommendations. I had a situation where this boss was being a complete psychopath, but and I know who wanted to fire me, so I got as many recommendations as I possibly could for everybody who worked for him, everybody he knew, and everybody I knew basically. So I suddenly ended up with another hundred recommendations he couldn't find me. Because he couldn't say you're doing a bad job because I just kind of got a hundred recommendations for all your friends and all the people working, and all the people you love. So crafty. I love it. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

Protect your sense of dignity. That's the thing that you're going to be taking away. If you end up sort of feeling like you've uh you know engaged in a way that makes you feel undignified or self-hating, that's gonna stay with you. Keep your sense of dignity as best you can.

SPEAKER_04 26:25

Great advice. Well, thank you for joining us today on Ella Podcasts. The truth is you cannot fix a bad or narcissistic boss. You can only control your exposure to them. Some people survive by strategizing, some survive by detaching emotionally, and some survive by finding a new job and leaving. If your confidence is negatively impacted, then a damage is already done. No salary or promotion is worth putting up with horrible bosses and feeling like you're walking through a minefield. Put your well-being first. If you want to suggest a topic for our next episode, please send a message to us at Facebook at Ella Podcasts and uh please subscribe, rate, and share us. That's great. We hope you move on from your horrible boss and find a nice new boss sending you a big hug.