Raising a Child on the Spectrum

Raising a child with autism or additional needs can be one of the most emotionally demanding, isolating, and misunderstood journeys a parent can face. In this deeply honest episode of Ella Podcasts, we explore the reality of parenting children on the autism spectrum and with special needs - the fear, exhaustion, uncertainty, grief, love, and resilience that often exist behind closed doors.

Many parents silently carry the weight of constant caregiving, navigating therapies, schools, social judgment, financial pressure, and fears about what will happen to their child when they are no longer around. The journey can impact every part of life - relationships, mental health, careers, family dynamics, and identity - yet so many families still feel unseen and unsupported.

In this episode, we discuss openly the emotional realities of raising neurodiverse children, the loneliness many parents experience, and the ongoing anxiety around independence, bullying, public acceptance, and the future. We also explore the impact on siblings, marriages, and the emotional toll of always needing to be “strong” while navigating an unpredictable path.

At the same time, this conversation is also filled with humanity, compassion, humour, perspective, and hope. Because while the journey may be difficult, many parents also describe becoming more patient, grateful, empathetic, and emotionally resilient through their children.

Joining me - Ella Sherman - are Dr Jonathan Marshall, Hsiao Ching Lee Bond, Joyce Wee Yat Shin.

Who Is This Video For?

If you are parenting a child with autism, ADHD, developmental differences, or additional needs - or supporting someone who is - this conversation offers emotional reassurance, honesty, and understanding. We explore the psychological impact of raising neurodiverse children, the stress of navigating therapies and education systems, and the fear many parents carry about the future. Topics include autism spectrum disorder (ASD), communication challenges, sibling relationships, caregiver burnout, public judgment, school integration, independence, adulthood, and what happens when parents can no longer provide care. We also discuss how special needs parenting can affect marriages, mental health, identity, and family dynamics, while highlighting the unexpected lessons of gratitude, compassion, and resilience that many families discover along the way. Whether you are a parent, sibling, teacher, caregiver, or simply someone wanting to better understand autism and neurodiversity, this episode provides compassionate insight into a journey many families face quietly every day.

💬 Quotes:

• “The biggest challenge is the unknown - constantly wondering what the future will look like.”
 • “We grieve the future we imagined, then learn to build new milestones instead.”
 • “Strength sometimes means just showing up day after day.”
 • “Special needs parenting changes your perspective on what truly matters in life.”

🔑 Key Takeaways:

• Autism exists on a spectrum, and every child’s needs and abilities are different.
 • Parenting neurodiverse children can bring enormous emotional, financial, and psychological pressure.
 • Many parents experience grief, anxiety, burnout, and fear about their child’s future.
 • Siblings of children with additional needs often carry emotional responsibility from a young age.
 • Public awareness and education around autism are improving, but stigma and misunderstanding still exist.
 • Families often struggle with a lack of support, specialist resources, and tailored education systems.
 • Despite the challenges, many parents describe becoming more compassionate, patient, and resilient.
 • Small milestones, independence, and moments of connection can become deeply meaningful victories.

⏱️ Timestamps:

0:00 Introduction to Autism & Special Needs Parenting
 1:02 What Is Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD)?
 1:58 Communication Challenges & Nonverbal Autism
 4:07 Living With Uncertainty & Lack of Answers
 6:31 Parenting Burnout & Emotional Strain
 9:06 Mild vs Severe Autism & Different Experiences
 12:02 Fear About Independence & The Future
 14:01 Public Judgment & Social Stigma
 16:44 Siblings, Fairness & Family Dynamics
 19:22 Growing Up Too Fast as a Sibling
 22:58 Sexuality, Puberty & Special Needs Challenges
 24:07 Lack of Government Support & Specialist Schools
 26:01 How Parenting a Neurodiverse Child Changes You
 29:19 Final Reflections & Support for Parents

Conclusion:

Parenting a child with autism or additional needs can feel overwhelming, lonely, and emotionally relentless at times - but this episode is also a reminder that there is extraordinary strength, love, and humanity inside these families.

For many parents, the journey is not about finding perfection or easy answers. It’s about adapting, learning, grieving, celebrating small victories, and continuing to show up with love even when the future feels uncertain.

If this conversation helps even one parent feel less alone, more understood, or more hopeful, then it has done exactly what it set out to do.

🔔 Don’t forget to like, share, subscribe, and join our Ella Podcasts community for more honest conversations about mental health, relationships, parenting, neurodiversity, and modern life.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Hello, I'm Ella, and this is Ella Podcasts. I have friends with children on the spectrum or with special needs, and I see the hardship and judgment they face. They're frustrated by the lack of support, exhausted by the weight of their journey, and nervous about their child's future after they've passed on. Here to discuss this topic are Dr. Jonathan Marshall. He's a Stanford and Harvard University graduate who's a leading clinical psychologist and a former professor. We have Shao Bond, she's a neurosensory motor reflex specialist working at the root of children's challenges through brain body and nervous system integration. She has a special needs child. And we have Joyce Wee Yatchin, she is a wealth manager and a mother of two children, and one is neurodiverse. So my first question is for Dr. Jonathan: what is special needs versus on the spectrum?

SPEAKER_04 1:02

So being on the spectrum, it's a phrase for saying uh autism spectrum disorder, and so we abbreviate it to being on the spectrum or ASD. And that's a subset of special needs. So everybody who has autism or is on the spectrum has special needs, but not everybody who has special needs is on the spectrum. And one of the fascinating things about autism is there's been a dramatic rise in it, and we're not really sure what that's about.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

And when did this dramatic rise start?

SPEAKER_04 1:29

It's been in the last couple of decades. So we now diagnose it uh five times more frequently than we did 25 years ago. And it could be diagnostic criteria, it could be better at identifying it, but but that might not be the whole reason. We don't really know what the environmental factors might be, if there are any.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

And my next question is for Joyce and Shao. What has been the most challenging part of raising a child with additional needs all but on a spectrum?

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Um okay, so I would think that when Zachary was first diagnosed when he was three, um, my biggest worry was his uh his non-verbal. So he hasn't like spoken a word. And then so initially I thought it was a speech impairment, but of course it turns out to be much more. Like it's it's more his autism. And then um so and my the biggest challenge was trying to communicate with him. So because he will only cry and he will make a lot of noise or he will throw tantrums when he needed something. So that was him. But I of course over the years, he's 21 now. So um he still speaks in um one, two word syllables, and then it's still not a full sentence. And every time we have to prompt him to speak in full sentences, and but even though he's I mean we understand him in a way, it's just that you know he he he has difficulty communicating still, I feel. Not like you know not like us in a way. So that's one of the biggest challenges that I've always feel that is the lack of communication between Zachary and I mean his peers or even his brother and the family.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

And that must impact feeling close to your child because we don't have that level of communication. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:17

So he's I mean he he expresses his love and his concern very differently. So um so if you see his brother crying, uh, which is quite a cute thing, he will get a tissue for the brother. Yeah, so that's his way of like you know showing his concern. But he wouldn't like exactly go and hug his brother and tell the brother, oh everything is okay. Yeah, and he would just pass the tissue and he'll just run off. That's his usual way. Yeah, so yeah, so I mean in a way, um, it's still a work in progress every day. So we will see. But we I mean at the end of the day, we we we know that you know he he does show concern and he has the ability to to love in a way.

SPEAKER_00 4:00

Yeah, so it sounds extremely challenging indeed.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

And Shao, what's your experience? Um, I think for me is the the unknown, the uncharted territory with every single like when you have a child, there's so much out there where people say this is uh my experience, that's your experience, there's uh doctors with the milestones and so on. But when you have a child who falls outside the typical or what's expected, and it's your first child because my my daughter with special needs, she's now 17. Every little thing was like, What's happening here? There were just so many questions like, is this normal? Is this not normal? Is when will this get corrected? Will this get better? Will she talk? Will she walk? Will she be catch up to her peers? And so all these are known with schooling, with everything. And then of course, you feel like you don't have the answers. You need to go and find help. But everyone, every single specialist says different things. It's very confusing. So you've like, who do you talk to? Who do you who can you trust? And is there a community that you can talk to? Because all the other parents, I don't think they'll understand unless they have similar, you know, uh families with the same profile, because you you feel really alone and you feel like it's you against the world, and you have to be this person, you have to be this strong person to figure out what your daughter needs or what your child needs. And do you have confidence to do to go against the grain? No, so it's it's a question, it's uh the lack of direction because you know, as human beings, we all like to kind of follow a system. We wake up in the morning, we turn on the light, we know the light switch is there. So you kind of you like predictability and you have a sense of control. So as a parent with a child with needs, the sense of the lack of control, not know that not knowing what to do, and everything being kind of murky and it's not clear, like you have to kind of clear, you know, the bush, and you have to figure out, and you're constantly trying to say, is this the right thing for my daughter? Will she be independent in the future? What will happen to her? I mean, there's so many questions. That's been the biggest challenge. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

It sounds incredibly hard. I have a friend of mine, and uh she wanted a big family actually, and her first child ended up being autistic, quite severely autistic, and and then it it was just so much work for her that she decided not to have any more children because she really just couldn't cope with the the amount of time she had to put into her child, and you know, it was you know, I did watch her and it was it was sad to watch because it wasn't a happy experience raising her child. There was a lot of frustration and kind of feeling like she did something wrong somewhere along the way, and uh, you know, and you obviously you watch, you know, your siblings have their children and they're all clustered as normal, and and then you you've got a child who's you know obviously on the spectrum and it so impacted everything in her life, and uh you know it was really for me, it was just devastating to watch her decline as well. She went from being a very happy, bubbly person to just just constantly on edge and all that frustration. So I have so much respect for you and the hard work as a good parent. Um, you know, you've you've put into your children. Because I also think what happens when parents are not, you know, good parents, when they're neglectful or you know, they don't don't care. I mean, that can you imagine being a child on the spectrum and you don't have support?

SPEAKER_01 8:03

It it's for sure is is really hard. It's um I I think um when when there are different needs, differences and special needs, um spectrum, whatever, there's a lot of extra uh energy required. Uh the the the different type of resources required. And so if you are on your own and or you're you just don't have the capacity, um not I mean not trying to be neglectful, but you try your best. If you don't have your own support system, it's super hard. I mean, if you're a single parent, yeah, or if you don't have a supportive family uh parent. I mean, if you don't your partner has a different outlook to you and you're not together as a unit, it it's really difficult.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

And I hear that's quite common, isn't it? Where you know one partner is a lot more hands-on and let's do this, and yeah, and then their partner is not necessarily is engaged, and that must be incredibly difficult for the relationship, Jonathan.

SPEAKER_04 9:07

I think I think it's interesting to note that often these things are on a spectrum, hence the phrase autism spectrum. And that for for moderate or severe cases, it can be such an enormous challenge, an unexpected one. It's like, oh, let's have a fourth child, and then you discover you know you it becomes an incredible weight. But for those with it where it's quite mild, it might not be such a weight. And many very, very successful people uh have special needs, uh, autism being one of many. And so I think important to acknowledge that when it's more mild, it it may not be that bad. And sometimes it can perhaps be an asset. Yeah. Because because although it could be a disability in some ways, it may provide a different way of thinking or interacting that that is beneficial.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Yeah, it's quite a few geniuses who are Asperger's, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

Mild autists, people with with cre very creative, you know, they think differently out of the box that allows them to solve uh problems that that you know, if I don't figure out by someone who has a completely different point of view, they can come up with some amazing different insights. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

And I was reading there's a lot of people with Asperger's who are in the technology and software business because they just have a different attention to detail and imagination for solving problems. Um, so there are definitely superhuman traits, but at the same time, there's also a lot of people I know struggling with their kids who they are worried about their future and what will they do for a job when they grow up. How will they have relationships? Who will look after them when you've passed? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:51

And Asperger's is kind of the the former name for mild autism. So when it's mild, we call it, we used to call it Asperger's, now we just say on the spectrum on mild. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

And I I think um mild, severe, all of that is as there are labels that we use, but people have different ideas what mild might mean. Severe might mean. So you might have a family who others say, Oh, your son is quite mild, but the reality for that family could be that it's still really fraught with a lot of obstacles and things that are very tricky, you know.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

So I think every child is is rather different, as that's why they call it the spectrum. Yeah, yeah. So um I think a lot of parents do struggle with the future, anything like what Shao has mentioned. So at we all have to fear for the unknown, especially for our children. And then um, and of course, um at every stage there's something new. So for Zachary, it's always like um we were worried initially was his speech, and then later on when uh when he goes to school, we were worried about the bullying, whether there's gonna be bullies, and then later on, as we go on now as he's working, we will I I'm more worried about is there anybody that uh the public what was the general public's opinion of him? Like he still he has he still talks to himself while he's working. So I think in a sense, um the awareness of the public um might have been better back previous, I mean, compared to the past, but still um they're still not so aware of what is it really about. Yeah. So that's why um when sometimes like now the schools have started to educate the kids, like how um how how what what is autism to you, do you have friends? And of course, um the schools are integrating the children now together. But of course, there's always going to be uh some differences because the the kids on the spectrum has a harder time to catch up with the other kids.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

Yeah, yeah, and when a child uh who has needs, when they're little, they're quite cute. They they're still children, they're cute. Um the public will accept that quite easily. Oh, that's okay. But as a child gets older and their they their differences are still there and it becomes more pronounced because then they st they need to navigate society on their own, and we can't be explaining for their behavior. We're not there to interpret or mediate between our children and the public. When they're children, when they're little, it's easier. We can control so many things. But now my daughter's 17, her her son is 21. We can't be there to try and and help them, you know, uh soften things, then protect them. And the public, you know, um they they might be good, they might not be good, depends on what they they know, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:00

Yeah, and I notice that when I even when I do my dog walk in my area, there's a couple of guys in the area who are definitely autistic and uh you know they walk around on their own, and you know, I'm totally cool with it because I I can tell. Uh, but there are all other people who I see literally cross the road because they see the different mannerisms and the way of walking, and yeah, you know, it's seen as something that's strange or scary, yeah, you know, get out of the way. Yeah, and it's and as you say, you need more education so that people realize yeah, you are safe. Yeah, it's just a you know, it's a different biological makeup, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 14:38

I think that's it. It's like this person doesn't fit my template of what a person should look like or act like or walk like, which means maybe I'm unsafe. And I think based on that alone, we move away from difference. And so even if one would become aware of all that, you know, once you know that person's autistic, but but it would take someone with a lot of uh knowledge ahead of time to realize, oh I I'm probably safe, that person's just yeah, different in a particular way.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

I think it's great that schools are actually educating kids now on the differences so that you don't have that divide that you do tend to see with the older generations, yeah, you know, separation.

SPEAKER_02 15:19

Yes, even my mom is like she's trying to tell me, don't put him on the public transport. You know, it's very dangerous. Because like, you know, she's worried about like how the public will actually bully him when they see him on the bus and things like that. Or what if they don't like the way he behaves and starts to you know try to attack him or something like that? But then we realize that it's it's okay. I mean, because Zachary wants to be independent as well. So at his age now, he's 21. So he also expresses the fact that he wants to do things on his own. So I think this is something that we can celebrate, but then again, the public awareness is something that we cannot control as well.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

I find so many younger people on the trains, they all have their headphones on and all distracted on their phones. I don't know if they really are noticing. People are so involved with their phones. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and you wouldn't hear someone talking to themselves, or you just think they've got a headphone on and they're having a call. I think times are changed in that sense.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

Well, that's that's one of the positive side of things.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

So my next question is for both of you actually. Um, but what is it like parenting one child with additional needs and one without?

SPEAKER_01 16:44

Um it's very challenging because the the children they they are siblings and siblings will fight. They will argue, you know, it's it's very, very normal to have that. But the thing is sometimes they don't understand why you have to treat the other a little bit different, and so they have a real sense of justice of what's fair and what's unfair. But for for my husband, it's not about uh equality because sometimes it's all about equity, you know, what's right for one child is may look slightly different for the other child, you know. So there's constantly, even though my youngest 15-year-old understands that my 17-year-old does have differences and so on, she still sees her as a sister. So there she doesn't really think about that. So emotions take over. And does she feel like her sister's taking more of your attention? Yes, yeah. And I'm very, very, very, I try to to make sure that I spend quality time with one person, quality time with another person, and then I try to spend quality time for both girls, and I know it's pretty even in my own my point, but the perception is perception. They all have their individual perception, and you can't change that. It doesn't matter what the reality is, what I think the reality is, they'll have their own ideas of what the reality is.

SPEAKER_04 18:10

Mommy is very more time with my sister, not me.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

Always. Oh, she always has the best, or she always, you know, gets this, and I can't get this, you know, it's unfair, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it goes on. Yeah. Is there a resentment? I I I think there is. Uh, I I think now that um the younger one is getting older, I think um she can understand more and she understands, but still the feelings are not logical. You it you can't rationalise. You you might understand something cognitively, but you still have the emotional reaction, right? So there is definitely resentment there.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

And I imagine a sibling has to grow up pretty quickly in that situation because there's so much caregiving for the other child. And I'll talk about another friend. She's um she's got a sister who's got a mental age of six years old, even though she's in her mid-30s. And you know, she shows me videos of her, and it you know, I shouldn't use the word bizarre, but you know, obviously she's acting like a very little girl, and she was showing me a lovely video actually of a Christmas present being given to her, and it was just the childlike enthusiasm of getting a present. But my friend was saying, you know, I had to grow up so fast because all attention was on her. Yeah, and uh, I'm also very aware that one day when my parents are gone, um, you know, if she's still here, then she's my responsibility, and it's a lot because if you can imagine having an eternal six-year-old, the level of energy and tantrums, and you know, uh, she wants to do this, she doesn't want to do that. It's it's so full on. And yet the person's bigger than six-year-olds. Yeah, she's in her mid-30s, right? So it's uh you know, such a challenging situation. And she was saying how poor parents never get to go on holiday and really never have time for themselves, and you know, their whole lives have all been about her little sister. Um, but uh again, she grew up so fast. So, Joyce, what about your kids? Do you feel like they had to kind of adjust to each other?

SPEAKER_02 20:16

Um, so I I I found I first found out that I was treating them differently when um the older son, my older son Alex was five, because um he was asking me, Do you love Zachary more than you love me? So then I had a wake-up call that, oh, I was treating them differently. But I until today, like what Shao has mentioned, um the older one doesn't complain that, you know, that uh anymore about the differences, the different treatment. But of course, uh you can see that sometimes like you know, he's worried about the future. Like how is he going to match the mom, you know, the way we the parents take care of the brother? So he'll be very quiet whenever I so I I I I came to a realization that okay, I will no longer say that like you have to look after your brother. So I stopped saying that like uh last few years and I told him that like you know, we we will discuss this when the time comes again when you know when you get older, when you're more independent. Because um after all, the brother, the older brother is only 23 and he's still studying. So but you can see that like um Ella, you have mentioned, right, the the the the the stress that he's feeling actually when even like now he's 23 and then he knows that eventually that he has to look after the brother.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

Yeah, the weight of responsibility has been so enormous.

SPEAKER_02 21:45

And and you know, like how he's 23 and he's trying to act like a man, you know, of the house. And so he he really wants to do that, but also he's quite worried that he's not able to do that because he knows that eventually he wants his own life. Like he wants to get married or have his own kids and he's not too sure also like his ability to look after a brother that is you know not may not be independent fully later on or something. Yeah. So yeah, so that's that's that's that's him. So but of course, um I I'm quite positive in a way. So I would say we'll get there when we get there. So let's not let's not let's not think about this for now. So we we're just happy that your brother has a job, he goes to work, okay. We're good. We're thankful for the small things, aren't we? So we're done. Okay, that's it. Yeah, I'm still alive, so it's all good. Yeah, so yeah. So yeah, so that's that that's how we yeah, we try to laugh about it. And then of course, um Zachary being even though he's on the spectrum, he he has his own ways to light us up in a way. Yeah. Yeah, so he's yeah, so that's him.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

Jonathan, do you have anything to say about you know the weight of responsibility of the siblings?

SPEAKER_04 22:58

I know with clients of mine who've had uh special needs children, how um some of them have described when puberty hits or when they become more sexually interested, that this can be a very challenging time. Um I remember a client with with uh a girl who uh was you know scared of of uh of pregnancy and should they sterilize the child. And with boys and getting them getting into trouble in different ways or getting beaten up, and uh that it adds a level of complexity because there's so much anxiety in families, anyhow, around how do you manage or talk about your child's sexuality. And then when you add special needs into the mix, it's a it's a particular kind of challenge.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Another question, and this is a question that my friend you always used to raise that governments are not doing enough to fund specialist schools to cope with the demand, um, and that the parents are left to kind of figure it out themselves, finance it themselves. I know in some countries they do have more support, more specialist schools, but that's not the norm.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

Yeah um, yeah, when I I think when you have someone like when it comes to employment, when it comes to education, it's for the mass, for volume, for numbers of people. But when you have one or two individuals who have special needs, by definition, they're different, they have different needs already. It's really tricky. Like, how do you fund somebody who has this need, but then they may have the same level, uh same diagnosis, but the needs are different because every child, every teenager is unique. So it's very, very tricky. And then with the funding, I mean, how do they yeah? I mean, as a parent, I've I've I've gone through this journey, and at the end of the day, I've realized that we can't, I can't rely on on the government, I can't rely on anybody, every government around the world is different, but at the end of the day, it has to come down to myself and my my husband. We have to figure out. Um I think in certain countries, um, because the population's getting bigger, getting older, you want to channel them into employment, so the government is trying to do what they can, but it's never enough. And that there's lack of training because there's not enough understanding, and teachers don't understand. Um there's just a lack of resources.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

Yeah, and it's very hard to teach a class where you've got such a huge range of abilities and if you add into that special needs, it's you know, I don't think it's humanly possible for a teacher to teach that spectrum within the classroom.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

Not if if the sizes remain a certain way. Yeah you know, it's it's and then it's like do you individualize everything? And if that's the case, what will it look like? It's it's really tricky to figure that piece out.

unknown 25:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

So a big question, how has this journey changed you as a person and what's your child taught you choice?

SPEAKER_02 26:02

This is a big question. Oh gosh, yeah, I I wanted to say I was very angry initially when I first found out. But over the years, um I I I would like to say that I I I still worry. Yeah, and of course, um, but I find a lot of joy just knowing that like how Zachary has overcome, or even myself, like how I've overcome certain things, certain emotions. Like um of course, like different stages of grief, right? Like we grieved the future that he has, you know, or he will have. But then with the diagnosis of him being on the spectrum, the it's it's all gone. So we have to build different milestones for him right now. So um for me it's like um I think I've changed I've become more compassionate, like I've become kinder, and I think Zachary slows me down, even though my my my goal was to slow him down. You know, I want you to slow down all the time because he's always rushing, but I think he slowed me down. So and I get to see like okay, maybe he's not where he is today, but maybe in the next few years he can be where he he wants to or where he can be. So um he made me more positive, I think.

SPEAKER_03 27:31

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

Otherwise, I'll be, you know, I'll I'll probably be like the average person on the road, right? That can't see the good things or even be grateful for what I have. So I think that's I think that's what is what he has taught me as a mother. Yeah. Maybe I don't even know how to be a good mother today, but if he has been a different child.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

I I mean that's how I think similar in some ways as well. I really things that used to worry me or stress me out in the past to me today, and my perspectives change. I feel like I have a clear idea of what's important in life. So I don't sweat the small stuff that I used to. Some things happen like, oh, it didn't go according to plan, whatever. It's okay. In the big scheme of life, I'm healthy, my daughter's healthy, my other daughter's healthy, my husband's healthy. Everything's actually good. You know, it's fine. So I I am able to get perspective better, and I really appreciate things in a different way. I'm more full of gratitude, and I I feel like because my daughter, when she was younger, she had a few medical issues. And because of that, I had to figure out my husband, I had to figure out how to improve her immune system. So we actually worked on her gut health quite a bit, her nutrition. And because of the journey, we learned a lot about what health actually means. And so the whole family actually benefited from the things that my daughter has taught her us because of circumstances. Yeah, and then she's really delightful in her own way, and to the family, it's we we just enjoy our time together with her. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

Well, it's really endearing to hear that there are positive experiences. I'm afraid we're out of time today, but I think we should have another session on this subject, don't you, Dr. Jonathan? Thank you for joining us today on Ella Podcasts. Strength sometimes means just showing up day after day. Things don't necessarily get easier or improve. The struggle goes on, but you continue, and that's all you can do. All credit to you if you are such a parent. If you want to suggest a topic for our next episode, please join our Facebook group at Ella Podcasts and message us. Please subscribe, rate, and share this podcast, sending you a big hug.