Women, Ageism & The Workplace: Why Experience Is Being Overlooked

Does society value women less as they get older? Why are men often seen as experienced “silver foxes” while women are judged as being past their prime?

In this episode of Ella Podcasts, we explore the reality of ageism facing women in the workplace and wider society. From hiring bias and career progression to appearance standards and workplace stereotypes, we examine why so many highly skilled, experienced women feel overlooked despite having decades of knowledge, resilience, and expertise to offer.

Many women reach midlife only to find themselves being labelled as “too experienced,” overlooked for opportunities, or feeling pressure to maintain a youthful appearance to remain visible and valued. The impact can affect confidence, identity, career progression, and mental wellbeing.

Joining me are:

🔹 Dr Ronina Stevens – Clinical Psychologist
🔹 Nataly Papadin – Global Transformation Leader
🔹 Latha Prasad – Corporate Change Consultant and Midlife Career Coach

Together, we discuss the hidden realities of age discrimination, why older women are often underestimated, and how experience, confidence, and adaptability can become some of the greatest strengths of midlife.

Who Is This Video For?

This episode is for women navigating midlife, career transitions, workplace bias, menopause, leadership challenges, or questions about ageing and professional identity. It’s also valuable for employers, leaders, and HR professionals seeking to build more inclusive workplaces.

In This Episode We Discuss:

* Why ageing affects men and women differently at work
* The hidden forms of age discrimination women experience
* Whether diversity and inclusion efforts overlook older women
* The pressure to maintain a youthful appearance in professional settings
* How ageism impacts confidence, wellbeing, and career choices
* Why many experienced women are leaving corporate careers to start businesses
* The benefits of ageing, including confidence, resilience, and authenticity

Key Takeaways

* Ageism remains one of the least discussed workplace biases.
* Experience, adaptability, and emotional intelligence often increase with age.
* Feeling overlooked can significantly impact confidence and mental wellbeing.
* Organisations risk losing valuable talent when experienced women are undervalued.
* Ageing can bring greater self-awareness, confidence, and perspective.

Conclusion

Growing older should not make someone less visible or less valuable. This episode challenges outdated assumptions about women and ageing, while highlighting the wisdom, resilience, and leadership that often come with experience.

#Ageism #WomenInLeadership #WomenAtWork #CareerDevelopment #MidlifeWomen #WorkplaceCulture #Leadership #DiversityAndInclusion #MentalHealth #CareerTransition #WomenEmpowerment #MenopauseAtWork #EllaPodcasts

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:07

Hello, I'm Ella, and this is Ella Podcast. She's getting on a bit. She's long in the tooth. She's a dried-up old fossil. Sadly, when you hit your late 40s, the way the world regards you changes. You haven't declined. You still have great skills and experience, possess energy, enthusiasm, and ambition, but you're no longer regarded as being young. Young equals innovative, adaptable, and relevant. Old equals being set in your ways, low energy, old school, and frankly ready to be put out to pasture. Does ageism against women define their value? Here to discuss this contentious topic are Dr. Renina Stevens. She's a clinical psychologist who specializes in working with anxiety, depression, and trauma. And we're glad to have back Natalie Papadin. She's a global transformation leader in the technology industry. And we have Lartha Prasad, who's a corporate change consultant and a coach for women in midlife going through career transitions. So our first question, which I'm going to direct to Dr. Nina: why are men over 50 often regarded as experts at work and attractive silver foxes? But women are regarded as past their prime.

SPEAKER_02 1:25

I think we've got different standards really of what we value. And these are sort of cultural biases that we've got. So for men, what will give them kind of, you know, be looked up to is sort of status and experience. And for women, unfortunately, historically and still currently, it's youth and appearance. And I think these are in our culture, it's in our media, it's everywhere we look. And so it is unfortunately sort of in our workplaces as well. Um, and I think we've got a double standard going on with aging. Um, you know, this silver fox idea versus this decline idea is uh, you know, it's it's not helpful and it it's kind of not boosting how we're perceived as we age. It's like we're only valuable at one point and one stage, and it's sort of reducing our our advantages at work. And I think we we're also it's not just men that are doing this, it's society that's doing this, we're also part of it as women, and um it's it's not really about ability, it's about a bias.

SPEAKER_03 2:33

100%. And Natalie, are companies exiting older women while publicly promoting diversity and inclusion?

SPEAKER_00 2:40

I definitely see that as an overall trend because I feel like the companies overall have done very good at managing the optics of inclusion and diversity. And I think it kind of goes also almost by the bandwidth because what I'm observing is that in the younger um age groups, it's almost the 50-50 representation of women to men. But then uh the companies are less likely and less willing to discuss how um their women's representation changes as the women progress through their career and uh go to the um later stages of their career. And I think this is where the gap widens significantly, and this is probably becomes more of a, I think it's a combination of the bias, but it's also I think a combination of the um policies that are in place where um the opportunities are shifting towards more um technologically advanced and more agile and more, you know, kind of a youthful perception, which women of certain age do not fit that uh narrative anymore. So um I do definitely see that shift in women, not it's very hard biased to prove, and uh it's something that's kind of unspoken and it's uh a little bit hidden, but it's definitely very well uh felt by women of a certain age, and um they are unfortunately not looked through the same lens as the younger uh women or men of their same same age group.

SPEAKER_03 4:16

Absolutely agree.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

And Lartha, have you had experience in the workplace of ageism? Yeah, I I think that you know, when I when I started in sort of leadership or management positions, I was I was under 30. And in tech, etc., or the old tech that it was in in the 90s, uh that was very young. And you know, people didn't necessarily take me seriously, and I was trying to be, you know, very serious and professional and you know, um, and then at some point I I ended up being one of the oldest people in the room and then the oldest person in the room. And I think then people were kind of looking at me more, you know, with a mama or auntie energy. And at first I was like, excuse me. Um, but I think it's there's a reason behind that. Um, and it's not all bad. Um, I think where people don't take you seriously because you're older or think that you don't have the ability to, you know, be agile, etc., I I try to explain to people it's the complete opposite. We've been juggling change for a very long time and we've become very good at it. Um as women, there's so many things that are happening, and so many changes that are happening, not just in our lives in terms of situations, but in terms of physical things that affect everything else. Um, you know, we were talking about perimenopause earlier, and that's a huge thing as well, and part of that ageism that I think happens because you know, people think that we become more concrete in the way that we think and et cetera. But I think we just become more grounded in who we are as people and that we're okay as we are, and it's other people that are discriminating against us.

SPEAKER_03 6:03

And it's ironic that we've always been told, oh, we're worried that you know the older workers are not keeping up with technology because we've been there right since the very beginning of it. Yes. We've been through so many changes in technology when it's constantly evolving, constantly having to learn new things, it never you never stop learning. So why suddenly you hit your late 40s and you're perceived as someone who can't learn something new?

SPEAKER_00 6:25

I absolutely agree. I think it's actually kind of a big misnomer that men perceived as more technologically advanced or you know, savvy than women, because I agree with you completely in change space. I mean, women go through so many transformations throughout their lifetime, you know, like in personal and in the you know in the career setting as well. And I think they're much more agile and more adaptable to changes, and they're more um open to finding the new ways of working, new ways of communicating, new ways of you know, discovering in themselves, you know, because they're a little bit more social, if you will, and then they get a lot of inputs from outside of their, you know, even immediate circles. So I do think that this a um, you know, I see that there's like with increase of creativity, and as you mentioned, you know, um finding your own voice, you know, like and being more comfortable with who you are and your ideas. I do think that there it's a certain um perception that um women should be of certain stature, should certain presentation, and when they present themselves as strong and valuable and opinionated, it it gets a little bit of a pushback on that.

SPEAKER_03 7:30

So have you actually experienced this in the workplace firsthand?

SPEAKER_00 7:35

Absolutely, and I think um it's um mask, you know, sometimes it's masked as a feedback. Oh my favorite in the corporate world. And I think um it presents itself in the and as I said, it's in the always very subtle ways, you know. But um, I did see um from you know from my network and you know, operating in this space for um number of years now is that I see that similar profiles and um different age groups or different gender, they get the response, different response as well. So it's not just you know, like in the workplace immediately, but it's also people reaching out and trying to network and trying to find the jobs and similar profiles being treated differently once the age becomes a factor.

SPEAKER_03 8:21

And it's really disappointing that when people have so much accumulated experience, knowledge, done that, got the t-shirt, which should be valued, and yet there is this bias.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

I find it, I find it very amazing because I just spent some time in Japan and I was actually uh talking to some of the recruiters there, and um, it's a different cultural perception of what uh where we place the value of experience and like you know what what kind of um contribution the gray hair brings to the organization. I think that um in the more of a Western world, if you will, it kind of became a synonymous of the you know, that we need to evolve, we need to show the results, we need to be agile, we need to, you know, restructure, we need to reorganize, and this is how we drive the value for the shareholders versus maybe you know our older ways of working. I think I see that a little bit in Japan, Japanese corporate culture, is that they value the experience. And then when you know somebody outlasts uh performs their job or they're not performing theirs well, instead of pushing them out of the organization, they say there's an intrinsic value of that experience of these years with this organization, that it's better that people are maybe moved into another area where they can be still productive, they can actually bring that wealth of knowledge. And I'm a little bit disappointed in the that, as we said, you know, like that that value of experience is being lost, especially with women who have been through a lot with um, you know, with the changes and the growth and creativity that increases with their age because they are coming more of their themselves, if you will, and more stronger, that that's not valued as much.

SPEAKER_03 10:00

Does a woman have to stay looking youthful to see career promotion? Someone from HR who's seen a lot of recruitment, I'd say unfortunately, yes, you have to keep it going, you have to kind of try your best to look youthful and current and you know, on trend. I think I've seen friends of mine, you know, no disrespect, but that you know, let their hair go white or grey. And it unfortunately in the workplace, yeah, you know, you're kind of putting a red flag on top of your head as well, saying, Hey, I'm aging, whereas you know, it's other women I know who are kind of Botox up to the hills and you know, doing all the latest, doing the latest treatments to try and look 10, 20 years younger and to kind of be perceived as being youthful. Um, and it's a real shame that we we can't just be ourselves. We we have to conform to some sort of image of what a successful professional woman looks like.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

Yeah, I think I think that's very true. And it makes me think of a conversation that I had in my early 40s with um a guy that I reported to and was five years younger than me. Um full full gray hair at that point for him. And I I remember talking to, I don't remember the context, but he said, you know, you're so smart and you know, talented and et cetera, but you don't really market yourself well. And I was like, I'm in a permanent job. What do you mean, market myself? And he pointed to someone uh else in the office, a woman, and the way she dressed and et cetera, and et cetera, and you know, the makeup, the hair, and all that stuff. And I was like, so this these messages start much earlier. Um and and they don't just come from, you know, other women or the beauty industry or whatever, they're coming directly out of the mouths of you know, men that we work with. And it and he was just saying what a lot of people are thinking.

SPEAKER_03 11:58

Yeah. Um so you know There is a lot of judgment about looking your age. Yeah, absolutely, especially in the workplace. And and it's licked linked to competence. So it's it's weird for women as soon as you kind of get to a certain age, suddenly you're not competent. And it's it's so weird that transition from being you were like a superstar to now, of course, she's a bit gallowed.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

I think it goes back to those standards of what we value. Um, we're valuing different things in men and women in a way, still, uh still.

SPEAKER_03 12:30

100%. So is the anti-aging industry profiting from women's insecurity about their declining looks? What do you think, Lartha? It's a massive industry.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

100,000 percent, 100 billion dollars worth. I don't know the exact same stats, but I think it's you know, it's starting from, you know, what's out there in the beauty industry, the fashion industry, and its long obsession with youth and, you know, a certain kind of look, et cetera, et cetera. You know, those things are changing a bit, but at the same time, you know, Ozempic comes out, and then we see a whole trend around that. You're talking about Botox and other anti-aging treatments and women starting as early as in their 20s, you know, doing a little bit, a little bit to, you know, sort of make sure it doesn't look like, you know, from when I was growing up in the 80s, you could tell. But I I think it's also uh flipped now into this longevity thing where it's not about looks, it's about your health and aging well and all of that. And it's just the same thing, I think, disguised in a different way. And yes, I'd like to live till I'm 100 or or more. You know, I became a mom late in life and I'd like to see my kid through his 50s. Um, but it isn't it the same thing. And aren't isn't there that same kind of pressure and in some ways far worse than you know the 70s and 80s and 90s when I was growing up and coming of age, um, because there's all the influencer culture and et cetera, et cetera.

SPEAKER_03 14:06

I mean, you only have to look at photos of your relatives, you know, way back when. And they looked old at you know, 50, 60, you know, the the blue rinse, the cooked. Everybody looks a bit cookie-cutter and grandma-like. And now, you know, you've got women who look or are trying to still look the same as they did 20 years ago, and it's that constant battle.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

And my my mum's 86, and she was saying to me, uh, she went through kind of quite a change, both she went through menopause in her 50s, and she also went through divorce. And she, of course, I am now the age she was during that period, and she said, I thought I was old. She said, and then I'm looking at you, and I'm thinking, you're quite young. And I'm saying I'm not that young, but you know, she she's saying it, she's rethought about it. You know, she's 86 now, and she's like, she thought things were over for her, career-wise, relationship-wise, you know, she was seeing herself as older than she really was.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Well, it's interesting because um, you know, it's my experience with my parents kind of similar, but I'm uh now we see 50 as like life is just starting out, right? I mean, you kind of you know had your kids maybe, and then they're already on the way out, and then you have the so I'm very puzzled that you know, with our longevity, with people living longer, with us being more productive, with us having all these tools for success to be uh, you know, more creative in our worlds, you know, that the companies are not catching up to that uh from the you know, from the realization that they, you know, that there is this potential to uh tap into. And I think that um the the health and beauty industry definitely is stepping into taking advantage, taking advantage of the security securities, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:57

And I had the same experience as you in terms of my 97-year-old grandma gave me a big lecture on because I was turning a big birthday, and she said, Oh, but you're so young. She's 97, and you know, you have to put things into perspective. Yeah, it's not over yet. 97 is over. I've still got 20 years to go, but easy. You know, you 20 years of career. But uh hopefully not lifespan. You never know. Um but uh you know it's yeah, we we we are youthful, but not perceived as that. Um so do men face the same pressure about their appearance as women? What do you think, Dr. Raninia? I don't think they do, no.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

Um but I think it's coming, actually. I think it's changing. So the pro I think the problem for women is we've been facing this around our appearance from the minute we were twins. I you know, it's there. There those beauty standards are there, and those, you know, sort of preference towards youth and thinness has been there and clothes and all these sorts of pressures to and we tie it somehow with competence and success. It's got really enershed in some way. Now I I do want to say that I think men are also getting it. I hit you know, I hear about hair, these these these new things we're talking about, height. That's a lot of truth. You know, yes, and fitness. The fitness industry is big. You know how you were saying about longevity, it's also sometimes not about health, it's about looks, you know, it's confused a bit. So I think men are getting it, but it's not in quite it's not quite the same way. And there's that still that distinguished aging thing. The aging frame is decline for women and kind of distinguished for men. And and yeah, I I think it it's different.

SPEAKER_03 18:00

What could corporate accountability for age discrimination look like? Should there be legal protection against ageism?

SPEAKER_01 18:06

I mean, I think this goes back to my feelings around change. And you can legislate a lot, you can have policies, but unless people are willing to really honor those things in a real way, uh you know, things are not gonna change.

SPEAKER_03 18:22

And who are the biggest blocks, would you say, for ageism and women? Is it the men in the workplace? Is it the young women in the workplace? Is it ourselves? I think it's all of those things.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

Yes, I was gonna say too. I think it's a little bit of everything, right? And I think um, you know, with women exiting the workforce, you know, like in their mid mid-careers, let's say, for let's say maybe raising a family or, you know, for other reasons, they kind of eliminating that progression, career progression of mentorship. So it's uh I think uh the companies what they can, I don't know if the legal route is the um kind of the appropriate ones, because I think it's more uh about companies really willingness to not just the mentorship uh for women throughout their careers, but sponsorship, like the active steps to help them progress and actually stay within their careers. I don't think that women necessarily sabotage themselves. I think they just, you know, being real and you know, they evolving with their career progressions. But I think having those sponsors, the advocates who, you know, carry them through, who represent them, who give them the voice, who give them an extra opportunity throughout the career, not just in the beginning for the you know, sake of metrics or what have you, but also throughout, I think that would be probably one of the things that companies can actually realize. And I'm curious to see the effects of the AI and elimination of the entry-level roles in the in the job in the companies. And um, you know, because of the you know, kind of the dynamics are shifting, how would they view you know the experience and value that you know all more senior professionals provide uh navigating this new environment and the changes? Um I'm curious to see how that's gonna play out for women as well. But uh, I do think that um overall it seems for women it's easier just to exit and start their own things, you know. Yeah, and there's a lot of that. There's a lot of that going on, and I think you know, there's just a disproportionate number of startups are started by women, the businesses that they open up with their experiences and they take it elsewhere. So it I think the companies will see those impacts over time and might be changing their tune without even legal implications.

SPEAKER_03 20:37

And it's tough. I mean, I'm interviewing for roles at the moment, and you know, it's quite common now. I'm interviewing uh for somebody who would end up being my boss, but they're a lot younger than me. Yes, and I don't have a problem with it. Honestly, it's like for me, it's I just want to pay my mortgage and you know be in work. But for that person, it's a big issue. And I I often feel like I'm interviewed in being in an interview, trying to convince them that I'm not going to somehow steal their thunder, make them look bad, you know, kind of use all my experience to climb up the ladder over them. I mean, it's it's it's a weird interview. It's not actually about me at all, it's about them and making them feel safe to have someone who's very experienced, probably compared to them, that would be reporting to them. So it's a very weird dynamic. And then, you know, a lot of people say, Oh, you should just go into consultancy, into fractional, and it's kind of the, you know, this is the temporary measure if you can't find yourself something full time. But it again, I think it comes down to ageism. Um it's a tough one. So, what's the psychological impact of feeling like you have an expiration date in the eyes of your employer and as and society as a whole? I think it's really hard.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

I think it it affects your identity and I think it affects your security. Of self, you know, your worth, you know, fundamentally and you know core. And I think weirdly it can have a self-fulfilling prophecy because you you're feeling more anxious, you're feeling a bit hyper-vigilant, you're having to stay relevant and having to watch everything. Have I done that right? And then actually, you probably are sort of not performing in a relaxed way, and kind of it's it's having an impact. And I think what you're all talking about is this sort of disengagement really with some of this. It just starts to feel a bit like bullshit. And so people just think, I don't want to be part of it because it doesn't fit where they're at. And I I think you know, we were talking before about in an in another series about menopause, and you know, there's there's kind of a lot of mental health strain in this pretense and this invisibility and this hiding our aging. And I think that's that's completely exhausting. Absolutely. And some people want the flexibility, I think, to be able to perform in their best way at the times they need to, with the flexibility, being able to take a doctor's appointment without having a drama. You know, that I think this is why people are sort of coming out of it, really. If you can come out of it.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

Well, that's the thing, is like exactly it's it's a luxury, yeah, because I I I mean, I know, you know, in my you know, close circle of friends, people who were needed to leave because of you know just the pressure of you know performance and not being willing to put up with that anymore, is you say a strong word there. And um, it takes them, you know, six to a year, six months to a year to just even come to terms that this is, you know, this is happening, that they're like, you know, like they're preparing themselves for a completely different lifestyle, or if they are able to afford it, you know, like of standing up their own business and doing something on their own without having that judgment overhang of I'm not good enough, I'm too old, or you know, I'm too experienced, or what have you, like all this insecurities that come with it, you know. So it definitely has a very strong impact, I think, on like on people who are affected by that for sure.

SPEAKER_03 24:07

And it is really, really heartbreaking when you you keep hearing, oh, you're too senior, you're too experienced. Yeah, but it's like a bad thing. Yeah. I mean, it and you get it over and over again. Too senior. I mean, it's just the most annoying phrase you can be told. I mean, how why wouldn't you embrace having someone senior and experienced?

SPEAKER_00 24:30

Especially if they're willing to take that particular role at that particular page, that's probably less than less than.

SPEAKER_03 24:36

So for some of the roles I interviewed for that I really wanted, I have been a bit sad and I've kind of looked on LinkedIn to see who got the role. And and I look at their experience and I'm like, oh my god, you've taken someone so inexperienced in comparison, you know, so it's just like, why would you why would you not want the Lamborghini for the price of Honda? Yeah. Well, they're about the same price here. So for our final quick round, is there any upside to getting older as a woman?

SPEAKER_00 25:10

I think there's a lot of upside. I think um it's liberating to get older. And I think uh when um you come into terms with you know what has been in reality of what is, and um kind of lean into it, I think there is a benefit because I think it opens up a lot of potential that maybe was squashed by the confinements of a particular corporate role to conform with some standards that are you know not not even applicable potentially. So I do think that it's a painful experience, but I think um it's beneficial in the end.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Lartha. I think for me, you know, I relate to a lot of what Natalie's saying. Um I think there's also just it's the season where I it's not that I don't care or I don't care what people think. I it I just don't let that stuff stop me anymore. And I think, you know, all of that sort of anxiety and drama and you know, caring like what does this person think and you know, performance becoming performative, etc. I just realize, oh, you know, maybe that stuff is not so important. You know, I I I and I don't think sometimes you can you can know that and feel that until you've been through it and realize, oh, okay, that wasn't so bad. I got through that. And you look back on a body of work or a lived life experiences and you realize, mm, I did that, you know. And so, all right, I whatever's coming, whether you're in a corporate world or you're starting your own thing, etc. You know, I think that is very empowering. Great. Dr.

SPEAKER_02 26:51

Ranina? I think there's some really good things about aging, and I think that um we've got to remember it's a privilege to age, I think. And we should we should remind ourselves of that. I think people get a stronger self-concept, they kind of know what they stand for, that what their values are a bit they may be a bit more boundary, but that could also be a good thing, you know. This kind of I'm not taking BS the emotional regulation, menopause symptoms aside, uh, is usually better as you age. You you know, you you got fired up over things in your twenties that you've seen it before. So you're kind of you're more regular and more, you know, sort of kind of more measured in a way. So, and that's a gift. I think people are sort of can be a bit more authentic in the way they present. And I also think people get the depth of the importance of relationships. By the time you you get a bit older, you realise that some of this sort of superficial stuff doesn't matter so much, it's actually the relationships you're building at work or with you know, that that is key. And so you become a bit more long-term relational, which actually has a massive value in the workplace, and a bit of depth to it. And I think that that's actually quite valuable.

SPEAKER_03 28:07

Well, one of the things I've found, which is sounds trivial, but I like to travel a lot. It's my passion, and I do travel alone, and I have to say, I do welcome the fact I no longer get harassed, hassled, sex pest in a coming to an age when everyone just leaves you alone. It's really deliberating. So I'll take that, but as a positive, but the rest is a bit trial. Well, thank you guys, and thank you for joining us today on Ella Podcast. Ageism impacts who gets hired, who gets promoted, and who gets respected. Older women are being overlooked and underestimated. Each generation experiences the same cycle, valued early, questioned mid-career, and cast out later on. Governments and companies must do more to protect and nurture older workers, and they'll continue to deliver. If you want to suggest a topic for our next episode, please join our Facebook group at Ella Podcasts and message us. Please subscribe, rate, and share this podcast, sending you a big youthful hug.