Weight Loss Jabs: Miracle Cure or Dangerous Shortcut? The Truth About Ozempic, Mounjaro & Obesity

For decades, we’ve been told that losing weight comes down to eating less, moving more, and having enough willpower. But with medications like Ozempic, Wegovy, and Mounjaro transforming weight loss around the world, many are asking whether we’ve entered a new era in obesity treatment—or simply found another quick fix.

In this episode of Ella Podcasts, we explore the science, psychology, and controversy behind weight loss injections. Are these medications revolutionising healthcare, or do they overlook the deeper emotional, behavioural, and lifestyle factors behind obesity? We discuss food addiction, cravings, hormones, gut health, genetics, trauma, and why lasting weight loss requires more than medication alone.

Joining me are Dr Jonathan Marshall, leading clinical psychologist and former professor; Jo Brownlow, Functional Medicine Health Coach and Personal Trainer specialising in hormone balance, gut health and metabolic health; and Simon J. Littlewood, journalist and broadcaster, who shares his personal journey with obesity, diabetes and Ozempic.

Who Is This Video For?

If you’re considering Ozempic, Wegovy or Mounjaro—or struggling with obesity, emotional eating, food cravings or type 2 diabetes—this episode offers balanced, compassionate insight into the role of medication, mindset and sustainable lifestyle change.

In this episode, we discuss:

* Whether obesity is driven by willpower, biology or environment
* How Ozempic and GLP-1 medications work
* The benefits and risks of weight loss injections
* Food addiction, cravings and “food noise”
* Hormones, stress and hidden causes of weight gain
* Why many people regain weight after stopping medication
* Building healthy habits that last
* Simon’s personal experience with obesity and diabetes

Key Takeaways

* Obesity is influenced by biology, psychology, lifestyle and environment.
* Weight loss medications can help, but lasting success requires behaviour change.
* Nutrition, movement, sleep and support remain essential.
* Compassion is more effective than shame when supporting people living with obesity.

Timestamps

00:00 Introduction
00:01 Is obesity about willpower or biology?
00:09 Hidden causes of weight gain
00:13 How Ozempic and GLP-1 medications work
00:17 Can weight loss drugs create lasting change?
00:21 Building healthy habits alongside medication
00:28 The psychology of overeating
00:31 Final advice

Conclusion

Weight loss is about far more than the number on the scales. By understanding the biological, psychological and lifestyle factors involved, we can approach obesity with greater compassion and create healthier, more sustainable change.

Keywords: Ozempic, Wegovy, Mounjaro, GLP-1, weight loss injections, obesity, food addiction, emotional eating, diabetes, weight management, gut health, hormones, healthy lifestyle.

#EllaPodcasts #Ozempic #WeightLoss #Obesity #GLP1 #Mounjaro #Wegovy #MentalHealth #Nutrition #HealthyLifestyle #FoodAddiction #Type2Diabetes

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:07

Hello, I'm Ella, and this is Ella Podcast. For decades, we've been told to eat less, exercise more, and tap into our self-control to maintain a healthy weight. This has been easier for some than others, but now all this has changed due to the miraculous fat loss jabs. Overweight people finally have access to a revolutionary quick fix. Is this a breakthrough to conquer obesity? Or are the jabs replacing self-discipline and presenting worrying side effects? Here to discuss this topic are Dr. Jonathan Marshall, a Stanford and Harvard University graduate who's a leading clinical psychologist and a former professor. We also have today Joan Brownlow, a functional medicine health coach and personal trainer. Her focuses on blood analysis, hormone balance, gut health, and autoimmunity. And back in the studio we have Simon J. Littlewood, an Oxford University graduate and a journalist known for his commentary on the BBC World Service. Simon will be talking about his personal experience of weight gain, diabetes, and embarking on his Ozempic solution. So let's start with Dr. Jonathan. Why do some people have more willpower to diet and exercise than others?

SPEAKER_00 1:23

I think willpower is an interesting topic, and it's clearly important the amount of effort we can put into something. But I think when it comes to weight loss and the like, there are a lot of other very important variables, probably much more important environment, genetics, uh, family background. And so willpower is important and it does vary by person, but these other factors are much more important, and so focusing on willpower might be a mistake, and our backgrounds are different. Somebody who's been traumatized once is going to have generally an easier time with such things as weight loss and gain than somebody who's been traumatized many times.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

And Joe, is obesity primarily a medical condition or the result of lifestyle choices?

SPEAKER_05 2:06

Okay, yeah, it's a tricky one. I think the challenge that I face, or I think the world faces now, is um we have a bit of a mismatch between our evolutionary uh human being and through our world now. So back in, you know, back in the uh when we were cavemen, we were scrabbling for food, and dopamine was this beautiful hormone that we're our body or neurotransmitter that our body created in response to when we found our food. And the problem we have now is that we live in an environment where we have so much food choice and we live with this sort of ultra-processed food generation where the food, when you do eat it, gives you such an incredible um boost that actually now everybody is facing an environment that is is is too um obesogenic, I think they call it. And so we live in a world where everybody's eating um for pleasure, and we I think it's it's not about medical or lifestyle, it's actually about how do we support people to not crave these foods and to actually see what the foods are for themselves.

SPEAKER_02 3:22

I totally get that because there's so much temptation out there. Yeah. I mean, governments on the one hand are coming out with all these healthy eating plans and you know, stay fit and healthy, but on the other hand, we've got supermarkets full of junk, yeah, chemicals, additives, um, things that make you feel happy, you know, for a brief moment and then pile on the fat. So it's it is very hard to stay away from all that. And Simon, I know you've had I'm I'm a token fatty today. Hello, but uh yeah. Tell us a little bit, Simon, about your kind of weight gain journey.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Um, it's a tricky one. You know, I'm gonna slightly push back against this. I mean, I I think you know, in our hunter-gatherer days when our when our behaviours were as they are now essentially were determined, you know, in the thousands of years that we had to run around. I choose to believe that the tribe had a fatty and and and they kept him at the back of the cave, and you know, when they went off hunting, a bunch of them carried him. Yeah, well that was kind of where I was going, actually. So uh so we become it's it's interesting because uh the data sort of linking dietary choice and diabetes and longevity has only really become a big topic, you know, in the sort of latter half of my life. I mean, I you know, I recall when I was young, there was always a fatty, you know, there was a master who was a huge fatty, there was always somebody in class. I mean, they got mercilessly ribbed, of course. Um, but but I think they're kind of accepted. I don't think anyone constantly sort of told them you shouldn't eat this or you need to take this pill. So we've become very obsessed by it. I'm not saying it's a necessarily a bad thing, but we've become very obsessed by it, you know. I mean, to answer your question, I mean, uh I only really started taking diets seriously when I started to suffer real physical ill effects due to my um addiction to carbohydrates, you know.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

Um when did the diabetes come into the case?

SPEAKER_01 5:18

Well, I mean the trouble is I mean, you know, I I'm prone to be addicted, and I I stopped consuming heroic amounts of cocaine and liquor um because it was going to destroy me, and I had a sort of I went sort of nuts. And it almost immediately started consuming heroic amounts of um of um cherry garcia.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

What's cherry garcia?

SPEAKER_01 5:41

Oh come on, man. Oh, cherry Garcia is a is an ice cream named after uh Jerry Garcia of Grateful Dead, appropriately, you know, who I think now is dead. Um but um so so and I just put on ton of weight and and um and um and became I mean I then I stopped being active. That was the real problem, I think. The problem is the two things are connected. You get to a point where because of your size, it's very difficult to do certain things. I mean, sexual function has affected, you know, and I haven't run a marathon for several weeks um due to due to due to you know due to having you know a tubbiness. Um but um then I mean then I start then I started falling over and passing out, which is a bit embarrassing, you know, and scared my friends to death. I mean, for me, these are just I mean started having fainting fits. So I'm waking up on the pavement, kind of like looking up, and you know, as a security guard sort of standing over me looking a bit annoyed. Security guards hate to be disturbed. Um what has that got to do with weight?

SPEAKER_00 6:43

The f the full time.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

We don't know, but but the only solution after two weeks in hospital after my last fall, yeah, but you know, I came out of hospital, what, a week ago? Yeah, slightly less than a week ago, six days. Um, the only thing that they could all agree about was it would be a good idea if I was to lose a ton of weight. So the only, you know, they couldn't agree why I was passing out. Uh you know, they ruled out the no brain problem that they could figure out. Um uh no um there was no stroke because there was no loss of function. It was just like a faint.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

Well, I guess if you don't exercise, you must lose some muscle and coordination. And when you get to a certain age, balance is so important. Oh, I think that's true, yeah. I think I'll probably need to.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

Yeah, I mean I used to cycle a little and I stopped doing that because I mean if you fall over, it's not a good idea to be on a bike. Um so so so uh they so that brings us too neatly to a Zempic. They decided that I should take a Zempik. I think they're basically gonna defer any action which might include uh surgery or something else until I've lost a ton of weight. That seems to be the verdict at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 7:46

So rather it's a vicious circle, isn't it? You need to be fighting fit to go through big surgeries, so well I'm rather I was rather ungraciously have agreed to do that.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

You know, I I um I miss I think this it'd be nice to have the sexual function back. I mean, I was talking to a mate of mine in England who's also been taking um huge amounts of a Zempic, and he's not I don't know what it is about a men of my age. He takes a Zempic and has lost like 25 kilos, and he also has regular injections of um testosterone, and he still can't perform, poor guy. He's kind of scratching his head, you know. That's the one of the dangers of having a a spouse who's 20 years younger than you is the performance anxiety that a man is going to feel is completely terrifying.

SPEAKER_02 8:30

He sounds like a keeper. So he's lovely, excuse me. One thing I love about you, Jo, and you know, Joe is a health guru in this town, and she's the go-to person when people go to doctors and they get the band-aids rather than the solutions, and Jo is like the detective. Yeah. And I've what I love is that you treat the body almost like an engine. So, you know, rather than saying to someone, oh yes, you're very overweight and you need to lose weight, you'll look at, you know, why are they overweight? What's going on? Yeah, because sometimes it's not as simple as you're eating too much or you're not exercising enough. Sometimes there's something wrong with your thyroid or like sugar balance and is it cybo SIBO? Yes, that's a good one.

SPEAKER_05 9:15

And actually, um, you know, GLP1 antagonists, and it basically produces it's a hormone naturally occurring in the body. And unfortunately, when our gut goes out of balance, we're not going to produce the same amount of hormone as we need to. And so that can be a part of the reason why people don't feel full or don't get that satiety um mechanism kicking in. Um, yeah, I think there's so many other areas that we need to delve into around weight gain. Um, I get many women who are a key sort of group that I work with who come to me in their sort of late 30s, 40s, 50s, all that age range, and they are eating barely anything, working out, you know, really highly stressed actually by the whole situation because we have such a strong um uh strong pressure to look lean and look healthy in our world now. And so we then delve into let's look at the thyroid, let's look at your cortisol levels, your stress response, because if you're highly stressed, you're producing your own internal blood sugar, so you don't you can eat very healthily, but your blood sugar could be raised purely because of that. Um, so yes, and the thyroid, I'm sure Jonathan knows all about the thyroid and how it sets a metabolic rate for every cell in your body, and um there are certain nutrient cofactors needed to help support thyroid function, but also if you're chronically inflamed, say you're not eating the right, you know, nutrient-dense diet, you're stressed, you're not sleeping, you're not exercising well, that can then suppress the thyroid. So I think we we work on a sort of the food landscape is is you know full of processed rubbish, and then we live in a world where actually this is an accepted food landscape. You know, you go to a restaurant and you've got a kids' menu, which is chips and and chicken wings, whereas, you know, I think w what we the the key thing that I like to try and encourage people to do is to actually reframe the way um food should be looked at. It's you know, it's it's eating nutrient-dense food and looking at your body as this sort of beautiful biochemical machine that needs to be supported with all those nutrients.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

We can be quite, I think, sort of uh condemning of people who are fat. There was a stud there was a a case in the United Kingdom of uh uh a boy who was taken into custody by Child Protective Services because he was uh morbidly obese, and uh the parents were investigated to find they were doing nothing wrong. He had a genetic abnormality, and this is a known genetic abnormality which causes this. And so all of this judgment, even getting the government involved with child protective services, all because of a misunderstanding.

SPEAKER_02 12:06

And even doctors, I find, can be very judgmental, and you know, we're living living in Asia, and you know, because obviously the natural Asian frame is very petite, you know, they immediately look at you as a Western body and think you're really obese compared to to what they see, and and they're very free at saying, Oh, you're too fat and you need to lose weight, but they're not actually running any tests, finding out what's going on.

SPEAKER_05 12:30

And as you said, some people can be going through the day and they're eating healthily or they're not eating very much, but they're still I had a client literally two weeks ago who came to me and after having you know had a conversation with her, talked about he he you know basically said, you know, you've got to stop eating so much, and that's without even having a conversation with her about it, it was it was laid out like that, which is not great.

SPEAKER_02 12:55

Just makes people feel worse than they already do.

SPEAKER_05 12:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

So, Joe, what do the GLP1 medications like Ozempic actually do in the body, and why can they be so helpful for type 2 diabetes and weight loss?

SPEAKER_05 13:08

Well, they were developed for type 2 diabetes, and so they help manage your blood sugar better. Um, they are a synthetic form of a natural hormone that we have, and I think the challenge we have is that the drug that you're taking will be a much higher dose than what your body can naturally make, and so they make you feel absolutely full. And they start you, they talk about on a low dose, but it's still massively much higher than what our natural natural body can make. Um, and I think for me it's the downsides are it it delays gastric emptying, so that means that you stay fuller for longer, which is a good thing when you're trying to lose weight, but it's not great for the gut because your gut needs to be able to move the food through it in a natural way and you know to absorb the nutrients properly and to avoid fermentation, which can then lead to that bloating side effect, which a lot of people um I've heard also that it can you know, your colon can kind of stop working because it's not somebody loses sensitive, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

The feeling of pushing things along and I I've had two.

SPEAKER_05 14:17

I've had one client who's basically just chronic, she's got chronic diarrhea because of it, and others that are literally chronically constipated. And that that's not great for the gut. Um and nausea is a really strong side effect, and that's something that I think is uh really horrible to live with. And I I think then the downstream effect from that is that people don't tend to then eat enough to actually support their nutritional needs. So we need the protein, we need the vegetables and the fibre to be, you know, and so they change their diet, they cut it back to this very low diet, and um of course weight loss happens, but that diet, if it's not really if the diet isn't good in the first place, then it it can cause issues. And um for me it's all about educating alongside taking the azempic because I think if you allow that person to just stop eating, um, then it's going to lead to some other horm other dynamics sort of going out of balance, like maybe it would affect the thyroid, it could cause a bit of sort of chronic stress in the body.

SPEAKER_02 15:23

But it is an amazing invention. I mean, I had I worked for an American finance company and I had colleagues in the US and they were all morbidly obese. And I remember being on calls with them and always thinking, wow, you know, I feel fat, but then you know, not so much when I'm on a call with them. But within three months, there was a miraculous change from going from super fat to super skinny. And like every time, every week I'd have a call with them, I'd be squinting, like, what's the hell's going on? They're you know, literally halving in size, and it was by the end of the three months, super fast, they're skinny.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

We don't have enough data, do we, to know what this is doing to longevity? Because it's a relatively new thing, right? Absolutely. So so you're putting a drug in your body because being fat makes you die sooner, but we don't know what the impact of putting this very powerful drug into your body is, um, you know, with as as as is true of so many drugs. Um I've only had a Zempic once, and yes, uh I noticed almost immediately I didn't feel hungry. Um whether it's gonna have a long-term effect, I don't know. I didn't have any of the side effects that you've talked about. So so far, anyway, although they start you on a very low dose and they increase it quite dramatically in the course of the first couple of months, and it seems to be the way that they do. I guess that's to ensure that you don't have any unpleasant effects and in a couple of months you're gonna look like George Clooney.

SPEAKER_02 16:46

Yeah. Oh no, why would I want to look like him?

SPEAKER_01 16:50

He's a hey god, hope Jonathan.

SPEAKER_02 16:54

Is the future of weight loss pharmaceutical rather than behavioral?

SPEAKER_00 16:59

I think it's probably a mixture of both. I think the pills are here to stay, but I think also doing it without pills is here to stay. But there's a place in between, and I think for most people who are taking uh pharmaceuticals, uh it provides an opportunity to change your behavior because what they found is when you come off these weight loss drugs, many people regain. Those who don't are the ones who've changed their behavior, who've started diets, who are now in communities of people who are eating more healthily, uh, and so they're in a more supportive environment, which getting away from the food-related noise of normal life by taking these pills has provided them an opportunity to adjust their lifestyle. So I think it's going to be the marriage between the two that's here to stay.

SPEAKER_02 17:44

So it has to be a reset.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

The topic of this, you know, is uh why don't you just diet versus you know take a drug? And I I have lost lots of weight through dieting in the past. Um, but I couldn't seem to summon the interest, really. I mean, I've lost 20 plus kilos in the past um from the Atkins from just cutting out carbs and exercising a little bit more. Um so no white rice, no potatoes, no, you know, no bread. Um that wasn't very hard.

SPEAKER_05 18:13

Don't want to butt in, but so I think there is also a positive side from the I'm not I'm not completely against it because there is a drop in inflammation in, you know, they're finding it's also helping with things like sleep apnea, or I I think I think we sort of have to see it as um there's probably a two-prong approach they're using for you, is that they're going to say we want to lose the weight, but it's a lot of things.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

But uh that may well be coming.

SPEAKER_05 18:40

Yeah. Um, but so yeah, I I think it will help with the food noise, which for you you mentioned food noise, um, but it's it's helping with the food noise so that it's actually reducing your cravings, but it's also dropping inflammation, and that's a big a key part of of how your body's going to feel better.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

I mean what I have noticed and why I'm sort of putting up with this, um, because people talk about my weight much more than I think about it. Notice is that I have lost a lot of friends, not not fat ones, but thin ones. I actually keep a a record of people of my lineage who have passed away, and it is a surprising number. If I were to look at people from school at university, I'm 69. Um, it's a lot, it's north of 10%, I would say, um, passed away, and you kind of noticed that, you know. I don't know whether that's normal a normal distribution or not. And I had a friend who um died due to sleep apnea, basically. I mean, he was 60 and he stopped breathing in the night, and he had a problem with that, you know. He was a very heavy smoker and had been ever since I'd known him at university. Um another one who took his own life last December because he had a terrible degenerative muscle disease, and it was just a nightmare for him. Um and I knew him, he was a six foot two, handsome guitarist with his own band, you know, at Oxford, and women were chasing him. And the last time I saw him two years ago, he was he'd lost about six inches in height, and he was just a just a like a little old man. It was awful. So um so I would like to go on living because there's lots of reasons to live, you know. I mean, women are great, you know.

SPEAKER_04 20:25

Um, it's true. But it's true.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

Well, what are what are what are the drives in life? I like to write, to, to laugh, and to broadcast, and to and to enjoy women. I mean, there's not really much else that I I don't enjoy cars or particularly travel. I don't need to own stuff. Um, yeah, it's it's it's it's the written and spoken word and the felicities of the female. Um I mean, those are not bad reasons for continuing to live, but it does all of that works better if you're thin, I think.

SPEAKER_05 20:54

Or there's a health span. Well, I've been you know delving into this health span, lifespan, you know, there's a big, there's nearly a 10-year age gap between the end of somebody's health span and their actual lifespan. So it means those final ten years are not in a healthy, comfortable state, and I think using that as a goal to try and you know push through to be healthier for as long as possible.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

So the quality of life rather than quantity. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

If you're lucky, you you have you have the quality to to very close to the end. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 21:28

But that's a big if you're lucky. Yeah. So, Joe, do you think these medications are a a replacement for diet and exercise, or should they be used as a window to build better long-term habits?

SPEAKER_05 21:38

Yeah, definitely. I think the the key is using them to support to cut the food noise and to get the train the right training. I think probably they should be prescribed alongside, say, some sort of coaching group program because the community support is really important here. Um and yeah, understanding. That while they're doing it, that they need to have a certain amount of protein and certain amount of vegetables, and you know, really, really embedding those habits in that time. Um, and then slowly tapering off rather than going from one extreme to another. Um, I've also listened to you know different experts talk about how they do the sort of like like 12 weeks on and then they come off and see how their far they go for six to yeah, six to twelve weeks, and then in that time see what they've learned and then maybe go back on again. So that's cycling.

SPEAKER_03 22:34

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_05 22:34

Um I'm not sure how the long-term effects of that is. I don't think anybody knows what the long-term effects of of these drugs are going to be. Um, but I think it's better to be able to do that rather than um have a situation where you go, okay, you're gonna have it for this um period of time and then you're off it and that's it. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

I mean it well, and I I mean that sounds very sensible. I mean the fact is that I'm prohib I can't there are certain kinds of activity I can't safely do, but were I to lose 10 or 15 kilos and go back to where I was, there would be things that I could do because start cycling again. You know, um that's one of the challenges. It becomes a sort of vicious circle. If you get very big, you can't, there are lots of things you can't do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:14

And just out of interest, has the hospital actually given you a plan like Joe has talked about?

SPEAKER_01 23:19

They try to, but I'm just a terribly, terribly bad patient. I mean, there's a there's a very patient nurse who tried to work on diets and things like that. That's unnecessary. Well, because it's not the information is not it's not obscure to me. I mean, at the end of the day, it's it's not it's not, you know.

SPEAKER_05 23:39

So you know what we all do, we all know it's doing it. It's just how do we apply it?

SPEAKER_00 23:43

Oh, come on. I totally didn't. I started a diet in February and I had no clue. Didn't know the difference between a carbon and a protein, except people point to steak and say protein and smile. I mean, I think I I had no clue at all.

SPEAKER_05 23:53

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 23:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:54

And you're a doctor.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

Well well not a physical psychologist.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

No, I mean no, I mean I've a I've I have appointments with a very nice nurse, and and you know, no, I'm polite to her, but at the end of the day, um I don't think the the elements of a healthy diet are that difficult to determine. I mean, um to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 24:13

Um Do you think with a Zempit you will maintain that will possibly be?

SPEAKER_01 24:18

I think with a Zempic I'll I'll just want to eat less. Um and the things that make you feel feel full aren't really going to be very interesting to me. Because I don't I'll I'll be able to I'll want to eat less, I'll be inclined to eat things that don't fill me particularly. I mean I noticed that already, you know, um, which is helpful to be honest. You sound a bit resentful about it. Um well I'm not I'm I'm a sort of professional addict. I mean, all my life I've you know I wanted to do bad things to sort of and uh and yeah, I'd rather not be doing this. I'd rather be able to carry on being an arsehole and and and not change anything, to be perfectly honest.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

I remember sitting next to you at a Christmas dinner party. Um, we can I've never seen anyone eat as many chicken wings back to back as you. You're sure it was me. It was like a Guinness Beck of Record. Oh, you're thinking of someone. I swear to God, that was it was 100% you. You're thinking of someone else. I think you probably killed 30 chickens in that one sitting. I think you're thinking of someone else, but it was you, but it was it was Yeah, I do like to eat, it's perfectly true.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

I didn't always eat in that way, but I mean, you know, if if we look at and I again I don't want to stray into for the forbidden zone, but uh I think I I think we talked about this a little bit yesterday. Uh i y putting cocaine up your nose is quite similar to feeding. You know, the psychiatrist that I work with with addiction, you know, make that point quite frequently. Because you're putting things into your body, you see. Uh-huh. So it's not that impossible that you replace the one with the other. I see, I see. Yeah. Um, because you're feeding your face one way or another, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

Um So Joe and Dr. Jonathan, how can people reduce the risk of cravings, food noise, and weight regain?

SPEAKER_05 25:59

Um my top tip would be it's about the reframing side of things, as in to, you know, if you go on a diet, then you're restricting, and that's tough. For you know, you're thinking I'm not allowed this sort of food. And I think um when I work with a a client, I'll ask them to start adding more food in rather than taking it away. And that by saying, Okay, I'm gonna have more protein in my diet, I'm gonna have more vegetables, that be the priority goal to start with. And slowly because you're crowding out the foods that you really um were eating that were rubbish in the first place. Now, of course, when you're on a Zenpic, you're not gonna be eating that much, so it's it's swapping, it's trying to trying to to make the right choices. And also I think it's reframing the whole the full the whole idea of what food is. Food is is nutrition and to see it as that and to try and work out a way, and it's you know, I can see Simon, you're shaking your head.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

That's one possible use of food, yes. Yeah. Yeah, there are other things.

SPEAKER_05 27:08

Another question I'd like to ask is did you notice when you had the Azempic that it took away your food cravings, but also other cravings that you have?

SPEAKER_01 27:16

God, I haven't really thought about that.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

I mean, it's um You've only had one shot, haven't you?

SPEAKER_01 27:21

I mean I think part of part of the problem with it is that they had me on so many other things, including a very strong opiate. Yeah. And the the effects of the strong opiate were pretty unpleasant, you know, the effect on libido, effect on general levels of energy. I'm pretty sure that had nothing to do with the ispic. So now I've stopped taking any of that. Next time, I'm due for another dose tomorrow, so refer back to me in a week and I'll give you uh I'll give you an update uh on uh how I feel. No, I'm fairly positive about it. I mean, um it's a bit of a defeat when you have to start injecting yourself with strong drugs, but um who knows, you know, maybe in a year's time I should be back to my uh sort of 18-year-old antics, which uh which would be good, right? I'd say it's not necessarily a defeat. I mean it could be just teasing. I mean, I'll probably buy a sports car and you know, I can just I can just say it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

Okay, Dr. Jonathan, are the fat loss jabs only treating the symptoms rather than the psychological causes?

SPEAKER_00 28:13

Well, they're definitely not treating the psychological causes, although some people by losing weight through the fat loss jabs feel better about themselves and that gives them more motivation, more well-being. So it can be a positive cycle, but it but it also doesn't necessarily touch the course of what can be going on.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

Um do I lack confidence? Well, I'm I'm just saying. Well, I we kind I kind of do. I mean, I mean we don't want to go back to the to the trauma thing, but you know, one of the things that came up during that much ballyhood podcast was um was uh was that that relationship between between trauma and low self-esteem.

SPEAKER_02 28:56

We're gonna have that on our next podcast. Are we? Are we are we? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

Why don't we wait until I'm very, very, very thin?

SPEAKER_02 29:04

We'll have that on a podcast as well. Before and after.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

Okay. But to to to chime into Joe's point, I think like habit and support are are the two key things of that. Having at least one person who's supporting you through it, um, and learning, learning the habits of okay, but I'm gonna change my routine or I'm gonna be exercising more, or I'm not gonna do desserts, or these really great friends who all gone want to go out for beers, I'm just not gonna do it. Um, so I think these lifestyle changes are important with at least one person coming along with you, encouraging you.

SPEAKER_01 29:37

I mean, that's consonant with the with my experience uh with you know drug addiction. Um, as I said, I mean I had a lot, I knew I had a problem with drugs when I was in my mid-20s, but I never really got to grips with it until I was nearly 60. Um, I had no choice. Um, but the key thing was having being part of a fellowship of people that had exactly the same issue. We talked about this before. Uh however well-meaning, and I've said exactly these words uh in this room, uh, however well-meaning a um a uh medical advisor who has, a medical professional who has the knowledge of the book and the clinical knowledge is not quite the same as sitting with a bunch of other people that have the same crazy, crazy inclinations that you have. Because when you're with people like that, what seem to most normal people to be extreme forms and totally illogical forms of behaviour make perfect sense because you're with a whole bunch of people who understand nutty behaviour, um, including you know excess eating and so on. So people have pressed me to to join um what's it called here?

SPEAKER_02 30:38

Overeaters are anonymous. Uh is it called that? Yeah, there isn't overeaters.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

No, no, it's not there's so there's a 12-step group. Weight watches are not a 12-step group. There's a 12-step group. Uh yeah, um, there's a 12-step group for everything.

SPEAKER_02 30:52

Um but um well that's a good tip to end with, Simon. You know, meeting people in the same boat.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

People in the same boat who've experienced the same level of helplessness, which is which is, if we're honest, what we're talking about, which is the the the knowledge that you're doing something that is profoundly damaging and will limit your life, but not actually being able to somehow summon up the energy to do anything about it or to be trapped into it, you know. I mean that's not a very nice feeling, and many, many people are in precisely that predicament, you know.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

And last words from Joe in terms of uh tips to help people.

SPEAKER_05 31:24

Um I think actually the other side is is um when it comes to like highly processed foods, they are made to be quite addictive, and so in their own right, when you eat lots of them, they will create more of an addiction. And so just going on to just a basically, I'm gonna go to a a protein, you know, proper natural food diet can be a really easy way of actually dropping that that um addictive type of food in your life. It can actually cut out a lot of food noise just by doing that.

SPEAKER_02 32:00

And Jonathan, last tip for people.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

This isn't just about willpower. Like people think it's about willpower, but there are ways to do it. I've met many people who just like surviving on a couple of carrots a day and they're just starving themselves. They're not actually doing it, and there is a skillful way. So getting some knowledge on how to do it and then some support and then a few habits.

SPEAKER_02 32:19

Thank you. Well, we're out of time for this one, but thank you for joining us on Ella Podcasts. As someone whose weight has yo-yoed dramatically throughout my life, I think it's great there's a solution to help overweight people kickstart their weight loss journey. Science is offering a shortcut which really helps people who've tried and failed to get a grip on their weight. Stay compassionate and understand overeating is often a mental health issue and a cry for help. If you want to suggest a topic for our next episode, please join our Facebook group at Ella Podcasts and Messages. Please subscribe, rate, and share this podcast. Sending you a big healthy hug.