Episode 10 - Battle of the Brokerages

This episode explores the evolving landscape of real estate marketing, focusing on coming soon listings, industry mergers, and the impact of technology and AI. Hosts Courtney Twiss and Jeff Sutherlin share insights on how agents can adapt and thrive amid industry changes.

Key topics:
Coming soon listing strategies
Industry mergers and their impact
Role of AI and technology in real estate

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Hey, hey, good to see you, Jeff. How's it going?

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Fantastic, Courtney.

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Well, I'm Courtney Twist. You're one of your hosts, along with Jeff Sutherland. I'm out here in Cali. Jeff's in the what I hear, super hot heat of Arizona right now. How's the weather?

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Like hell, 107 degrees.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

107 degrees. And here we are still in early spring. Woo! Yeah. I can tell you uh that that heat is kind of what we're experiencing right now with this whole battle of the brokerages, Redfin and Compass coming soon versus not coming soon. Do we need MLSs? Do we not need MLSs? EXP is going to put it out there to everyone, and it's a whole lot of noise going on. And we thought maybe it would be appropriate to dive into this today, right, Jeff?

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Yeah, absolutely. Two KG veterans that can give you our viewpoint of what's going on and whether it really actually matters or not to you, the average consumer. So I'm looking forward to unpacking this with you today, Courtney.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Yeah, me too. I mean, kind of like you said, this is just our opinions and our interpretations of what we're seeing going on. But I can tell you, every time I get into Instagram, it's like another reel with some super catchy hook that seems very intriguing and kind of scary, a lot of scary stuff going on. And agents in my organization are DMing me and texting me and asking what does this mean? And it's a little bit confusing, I think, for people. There's been a lot of change and a lot of noise.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

It is very confusing considering, you know, the average agent out there is just trying to take care of their clients, trying to market the property as best as they can. And in many cases, most cases, I'm arguing, what you could probably be doing coming soon already. So a lot of agents are doing that as we speak. In fact, aren't you doing that right now, Courtney, with your listings in some cases?

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Yeah, so for me currently, it's business as usual. Um, I'm part of a couple MLSs, but my main one is CR MLS, which is one of the largest ones in California. And um, coming soons have been allowed for years. There's a little bit of caveats around that, of course. And I think the maximum that you can have it on there is coming soon is 21 days. However, um, it's definitely a tactic that I've utilized for many of our listings as like a tease, and you just put some of the information out as you're getting the listing ready to launch. And so, yeah, I had one last week. It went live over the weekend. Uh, so for me personally, it's business as usual. I don't really see any of these potential changes with these mergers or keeping exclusive or non-exclusive impacting my business really in any way currently.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

You know, and before we unpack all that, is there ever a time, Courtney, where you think it's not the best thing to do a coming soon? Or coming soons when do you do them and when do you not do them?

SPEAKER_00 3:00

I will often do them if I have, for me, number one, do I at least have some photos that look good, right? I want to have a good photo at least for my coming soon, but for I'm trying to get most of my listings, the ones that are on board with it, to do inspections prior to going live. So that way it's just like another enticement to these buyers that see my listings. Oh, here comes a home that's ready to go. And I'm doing a more of an extensive launch. So by the time my listing hits the market, I have inspections done. I have a website built for it using Lovable with a cool landing page. I have um a real and whole social media campaign that targets a certain audience based off what I've found with AI, and it's kind of ready to go. So I use that coming soon as like a tease of like a little sneak peek, take a look at what's coming up the pipe. That way I can promote it legally on my social media.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Yep. Yep, that's kind of what I do too. I typically use them when I think that the home needs some TLCs, some repairs, maybe sometimes for some pre pre-inspections. Um, you know, I I I like to kind of make everything converge to the opening weekend. And in many cases, I do coming soons because I'll get the hype out there with limited information. It's kind of a nice, it gets people intrigued about what's coming. I don't give them the whole story, but I give them just enough enough to wet their whistle. Um, and so in some cases, I think they're awesome. In some cases, we're ready to go. We know we're gonna we're gonna price at, and we just go with an opening an opening weekend without any coming soon. So I don't think all you know it fits for all properties. I think it's very selective.

SPEAKER_00 4:39

Yeah, I agree. And from my understanding, there are some MLSs out there that don't allow coming soon. So I could see where if they work maybe for or if they're with Compass or I guess now anywhere, since they're all one big company, that some of this might potentially could change how they're doing business. But what I'm wondering, so I listened to a podcast, uh, Mike Delpredi's podcast, which I love him, context, I think is what it's called. And he really like dives deep. He's an economist, he's not an actual realtor, so he's very neutral on how he interprets data and stats. And I'm a big stats girl. And he had one of the execs on from Redfin last week, and they were unpacking this new partnership that Redfin, which is also now part of Rocket, they're owned by the same, has launched with Compass. And so the whole point and like the marketing comments that I'm hearing from Compass is this whole idea of exclusivity and having only their listings available that are pre-market for their company, which I think you can legally let someone in your own brokerage know about a listing prior to it coming on. But how does that translate to Redfin? Right. And that's the interesting part about it because even if you work for Compass and Compass is saying, go for it, go put your listings on before they go live on the MLS, these agents in all different markets still have to adhere at this point at least to their local MLS guidelines, which vary by region. So I think, in my own opinion, this is not fact, this is just my opinion, that a lot of these MLSs right now are kind of watching this all unfold and just kind of figuring out which direction to go. Because do they go down and crack down on some of those that might end up breaking their rules? Do they get together and tweak their rules and make some sort of hybrid or new, maybe new preview rules around previews or coming soons or what have you? Or are we going to have a very disjoy, very disjointed home buying and selling to search where you're having to go to realtor.com and see exp's preview listings. You're gonna go to Zillow and catch KW's preview, and then you're gonna go to Redfin and see Compass and Rockets. So I don't, I do not think that's the direction we should go as an industry. To me, that's going really backwards. What do you think?

SPEAKER_01 7:09

Yeah, I mean, it's it seems like they're trying to protect their listings, right? Like in the case of Compass, um, you know, they're trying to give exclusive uh access to people through their portals and such. Because once you hit the MLS, then you have to deal with co-brokering rules within that local MLS. So let's say you're you're you're in Phoenix, Courtney, with me, and you've put a coming soon listing on the MLS, and you're with Compass and I'm with EXP, um, I have access to that coming soon listing and I can go show it, but as soon as I show it, you have to open it up to everyone else. Right. Uh that's one of the rules in Phoenix. I think that might be a clear cooperation rule across the United States, but you have to show it to everybody else. So um the the real question is is that when or how how long is is is a company like that gonna hold their listings? So it's just basically being um just marketed by their people, and only people that are working through that channel can see that, right? So, and that's gonna be honestly, every one of these companies is trying to also do this for recruiting. They want to recruit agents, right? They want to recruit agents that that believe this is the right way to go. And I think the the compass and the KW strategy is a little bit different than the EXP strategy. Those first two companies are much more protective of their listings, and they have their reasons why. EXP has more of a non-exclusive openness to it all. So I think we just need to be able to understand why they're doing it, how how how that all works, and and and really how does it really how does it really impact a consumer at the end of the day?

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Well, clearly with Compass having merged with anywhere or buying out anywhere this last year, they have a much higher agent count than they did prior. Um, and the EXP, and I don't know what that agent count currently is. I'm not sure if you know, but in the hundreds of thousands of agents, and we're sitting at just under 90,000 at EXP, so that's a lot of agents that you know would potentially be just their eyeballs on a company listing, at least in the beginning. However, there's millions of realtors out there, there's millions of home buyers out there. And historically speaking, most properties that are marketed pre-listing, whether it's coming soon or to I mean, yes, there are some pocket listings that people have done over the years that you're not supposed to do, but they do. But most, the majority still hit the market. And I think that will still happen with Compass or Redfin or whatever you want to call it. I think that those will, the majority of those listings will still hit the open market. And I do think that listings hitting the open market is typically when you're looking at the broad at a broad big view, a better option for our clients. And you know, I don't know, there's a lot of talk about let it be the seller's choice. It's the seller's choice. Well, how many listing appointments have you gone to in your 30 plus year career where your seller has said they do not want to put it on an MLS or the or the market?

SPEAKER_01 10:17

Like zero.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

I know. I think I've had in 23 years in the biz maybe one or two. Maybe. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

And it's very rare. No, but I think for Commiss, Compass, perhaps with some of the higher end luxury, I could see that potentially happening if you have someone that's a public figure that doesn't want maybe disclosed or something. I don't know.

unknown 10:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

But the majority, I feel like sellers, the reason they come to you and want you as a realtor is for guidance on this. So if you're taking, if you're saying it's a seller's choice, the seller knows best what to do to market their property. Well, why the hell are you there? What are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 10:57

Yeah, what are you doing? Yeah. Now, correct me if I'm wrong. Let's just walk through this. A compass agent has a listing and they are gonna go into coming soon status. And because of their agreement with Redfin, that means that that coming soon would be on the Redfin portal, correct?

SPEAKER_00 11:12

From my understanding, yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

That's my understanding. So the agent, or I'm sorry, the consumer can go see that compass coming soon on Redfin only if they go to Redfin, right? But if they go over to Zillow or somewhere else, they wouldn't see it on those portals. Am I correct?

SPEAKER_00 11:28

That's what I believe. And then they Redfin went so far as to brand in black. You'll see like a black box, I guess, with their coming soon um pre pre-listing. I don't even know that they're coming at, I think they're I don't even think they're calling it coming soons. I forget the term they're calling it, um, off market or something on Redfin's site for those listings.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Yeah. So it seems to me Compass and that their strategy would be to keep those listings undercover until they go to the market. And um, like you said, most of them will, but they're also probably hoping for unrepresented buyers. They're hoping for unrepresented buyers to come in so the listing agent can handle both sides and and get paid, the brokerage would get paid more commission. So that's part of the reason why these brokers do this. So you have the Redfin exclusive relationship with Compass, right? So they're showing the coming soons. Then you have Zillow with Keller Williams, so they're showing Keller Williams, which means that us as EXP agents, our coming soons would not be on Zillow, like KWs would, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:32

I mean, I'm sure it's a matter of money, like this whole new preview feature. I have not dove into exactly what that is going to mean through Zillow, but Zillow has changed a lot of their platforms over the years with Flex and Premiere Agent and all this stuff. And to me, this is just another money grab. No, it's a money grab. It's all about marketing, says I, with the marketing degree and the passion for marketing. This is all messaging and marketing, whether it's for um, you know, how you're promoting it to your clients, or like you said, how you're promoting it to agents for recruiting purposes. I think a lot of this is is related to the story that everyone wants to tell.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

Yeah. So you know, this goes for exp, right? We all have these marketing, recruiting value propositions, right? We have agents sitting in front of us and we're gonna be like, hey, at EXP, we got realtor.com, we've got homes.com, and what's the other comehome.com from is that is that the one from Google? I think it's the uh yeah, there's a third one from Google, um, which is pretty cool. But the difference being is ours is non-exclusive, right? Now that's different. So you got exp that took a totally different viewpoint on this than Compass and Keller Williams. So we have these non-exclusive relationships with these portals, which it the way I see it as an EXP agent, our CEO is inviting the MLSs to uh open up their minds a bit. So this is not these are not exclusives with MLSs, but anybody should be able to access these different portals. At least that's what I'm trying to understand, right? You know, the differences.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Yeah, it will be interesting because historically it's been like the MLS has basically been the first point of entry or portal for lack of a better word. And then from there it would syndicate to all these other sites. Well, now it's almost like we're looking at it backwards. Like which ones will want to put it on the MLS? I don't know. I don't think it's gonna be like the death of the ML MLS, like I've been hearing from so many people, but I do think it will bring about more, yet again, more change in our industry and probably some different like clear cooperation might change a little bit. You know, I think it was interesting, and I forgive me for not remembering his name on the podcast from Brefin, but he was equating clear cooperation as um a car that is restricted to driving 25 miles per hour, because you know that if you make a car where it can only go 25 miles per hour, it will for sure be safe. And in their minds, that's the way they were looking at clear cooperation. That it is something that they did for a safety measure that um was maybe a little excessive and extreme, was what he said, at least my interpretation on this Mike DelPredi podcast, which I thought was an interesting comment.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

So we thought he thought it was too conservative. Is that the idea?

SPEAKER_00 15:28

Absolutely, yep.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

Wow, that's interesting. So, I mean, at the end of the day, whether you go coming soon uh or you just go a straight active listing, doesn't it really have to do with your pricing? And when you do hit the market, as many channels as possible, right? I mean, my opinion as a listing agent, I'm like, I want to carpet bomb the world and have maximum exposure everywhere, right? I don't want to make any assumptions about who's looking at the house. I want to get it out there as many outlets as possible. But um, at least that's been my thought process over the years. So to me, it's it's especially in a market uh well in Phoenix right now, we're in kind of a flat market. And if you overprice something, we'll say in California, it's gonna sit. It's gonna sit. So if it's coming soon and it's overpriced, it doesn't help much.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

Um yeah, I mean, it does come down to the pricing and the marketing versus more than anything of who sees it. It still has to be a good listing that's priced appropriately.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

So what should a what should a consumer, what should a seller be asking agents nowadays when it comes to marketing, Courtney?

SPEAKER_00 16:35

Well, I did have a seller ask me, will this be listed on the open market just this last week? I'm sure from hearing some of the the stuff on the news. And I said, yes, it absolutely will be. So I mean, I I think they're gonna, that's just gonna be part of our listing presentation is who you're gonna be marketing it to. And to actually, if you're thinking about it, at least on California contracts, it's always been written in the listing agreements. If someone wants to have it off market, that's always been a seller choice. For as long as I can remember as a realtor, the seller has always had the choice to exclude it from the MLS or only market it amongst a brokerage. I have just not ever had a seller elect to do so.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

Yeah, yeah, interesting. You know, since the people that are watching this, you may or may not be in our industry, but there's a lot of stuff that goes on in our industry. Like there's a lot of association bash uh bashing, I'll call it. We are a member of the National Association of Realtors. I personally believe it's a value-added organization, but a lot of people would argue with me about that. So it uh, you know, there's there's three there's three levels we pay. We pay dues to be an agent, by the way, because as a realtor, realtor, we actually are uh we subscribe to the code of ethics, which is under the National Association of Realtors banner. So you pay an NAR fee, you you pay a state association fee, and in many situations, you pay a local fee. And those associations provide different things. They provide forms, for example. In Arizona, we have our forms, which are continually being revised by attorneys and vetted to protect the consumer public. But it's a fair argument to say that, you know, a lot of people say we don't get enough for what we pay. And I think it's a fair argument.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Well, I know. So I can't say that I'm a huge fan of being forced. In my opinion, I feel like I'm forced to be a part of part of NAR. Like in order to be with my Realtor Association, you have to be a member. And every year I pay those dues. And of course, it's like right around Christmas, you get hit with the big, the big end-of-the-year bill. And I'm like, what did I actually get out of this? The California Association Realtors, I have most definitely had value out of. One of them being, of course, contracts, like you said. If you have to go buy those yourself, that alone will pay for your membership. And of course, we have very strong lobbyists that are trying to help with some of these housing bills. And I'm sure there's a lot of that going on with NAR as well. I would just personally like it to be a choice for us realtors if we want to be a part of that, rather than it being forced in order to be a member of our local association. And I've always felt that was a little bit weird to me.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Yeah, no, I I I can hear you loud and clear, you know. I I'm a big believer in the lobby and the pack and everything because Washington, you know, we we we were always fighting for property rights, and that's part of it. And I don't think we see a lot of the stuff that that's happening with the lobbyists because a lot of us just don't pay attention to it, and a lot of us don't even donate, honestly. So um, but I I think there's definitely, I mean, there's a lot of change going on in our industry. I mean, tons. Can you imagine? Since uh over the last few years, we uh NAR got sued, uh, we had to come up with new forms. I believe EXP led the way, by the way. We created some of our own forms to make them more consumer-centric, to protect consumers more, and now we have other companies who that have actually emulated our forms. So I believe this whole back to the whole thing with this non-exclusive exclusive. I love the way our CEO did this because he wants an open market and he wants maximum exposure. And that's part of the reason he said he'll do these non-exclusive agreements with these portals because everybody should be doing it. There shouldn't be any uh, you know, restrictions on companies that want to be able to use these portals. That's the way I see it.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

I think it also just aligns with our core values as a company. You know, I've only been with EXP a couple of years, had my own, as maybe our listeners know or don't know, I had my own brokerage prior to that. And it just like you said, when all the changes came about with having a buyer broker agreement, EXP was all over it. And I was so happy to not be having to figure all this out on my own, like I would have just a short period before that, and explaining it to my company and my team and agents. And they were all over it and they have a very simplified contract that we use for buyer broker agreements. Additionally, I've noticed that they're ahead of it with our listing agreement, where we now have full transparency on if there is a referral fee. So, I to my point to speak more concisely, EXP is all about transparency from top to bottom. And so this just aligns with what I've seen with EXP as a company as a whole. Transparency and what they're paying their agents, it's all out there on what you get on your commission split. It's it's not like, oh, this agent in my office might be on a 90-10, and this agent might be on an 80-20, and this one's at this, but don't talk about it, which is all over the place. EXP is transparent from the get-go commissions, contracts, and they try to stay ahead of it from what's coming up the pipe with the DOJ, which I think is going to be a contract change on referrals being transparent for everyone else. And we've already got it. So to me, Leo's Preha's decision to align and to have promote this free market just goes hand in hand with everything I've seen on all of the all of the decision making.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Yeah, yeah. And all these companies are good companies, right? I, you know, I align with this brand because of everything you just said and all the multiple inks uh income stream capabilities here. I really think at the end of the day, if you want to do this business, you know, I always believe that you don't really become a great listing agent until you do at least 50 appointments. It's gonna take some time become a big to become a great listing agent, but you better have your ducks in a row. Like, you know, when I do a listing presentation, I literally show our List Hub software. List Hub is what syndicates the MLS out to tons of websites, right? We get tons of syndication. And the common consumer does not really understand how all that technology works. I actually explain it. I explain, you know, when it goes into the MLS, this is these are all the places it's going. Right. So if if you're good at marketing the property, good at pricing the property, uh, good with the contract, all these things, um, you have to be good at a lot of things to be a great agent anymore. So look for that if you're a consumer. Ask like like Courtney was asked the other day. I find that very fascinating that somebody asked you that right away since this all happened. You know, where's it being marketed? And if you're a good listening agent, you should be able to describe that, you know, including like uh boosting, boosting posts on social media. There's so many strategies we use to get your listing out there.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

Right. And I guess, you know, thinking as you're as you're talking, a lot of this goes back to our value as a realtor and why people will continue to hire us versus trying to do it themselves, because that's a threat that is real with all this new technology that's coming out and with AI is there's a lot more data available for our clients. And so we as agents are having to adapt and really make sure that we're showing the appropriate value. And I think all of this that's going on right now is just another way that brokerages are trying to ensure that they have value for their clients and to showcase it as a reason to hire us and not do it, do it yourself, maybe. I don't know. That's just a thought I have.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

Yeah, I think I mean, Courtney is one of my mentors when it comes to technology and AI. And actually, uh, she's been proud of me lately. I have been completely immersing myself in AI. Um, and I don't believe AI is gonna replace an agent, but I also believe that if you don't have your act together with AI, you're gonna lose out to many agents. And so it's I don't want to be that guy. Uh, and Courtney certainly is not that gal. So it's like we, in fact, Courtney teaches people how to use AI. She coaches people, other agents, on how to use AI appropriately. So yeah, I mean, everything's changing. And if you don't change, you get left behind in this business.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

Well, now it's already happening. Some are, right? I mean, we're losing agents, and I think we will continue to do so. And I'm not trying to say that in a negative fashion, but most people don't like change, not just agents, people in general are very change adverse. And for me, I try to look at it as change equals opportunity. And with all this, this going on, whether it's AI, whether it's mergers of companies, which I foresee a lot more of that coming up a pipe in the next five years. I think a lot of I don't want to say small ones will be absorbed by big ones, but maybe even more of the big ones coming together. And I think we'll have have less brokerages out there. But all of that, I say all that because there's opportunity in that as well, right? If you just stay abreast of it and look for ways that you can set yourself apart from others and better serve your clients and get recognized and be out there, there's there's room to grow with all of this change that's going on. You definitely can't hide in the sand because it's not going away. You need to be aware of what what's happening and know how to speak upon it, educate, you know, in a in a way to educate your client and your agents.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

Um Yeah, if if you know an agent that's been around for the last two years and they're still around, you should like give them kudos because the last two years have been really hard on the average agent, right? You know, I mean, Courtney and I, we're very blessed to be top producers. We have we've been doing this a long time, but if you're an agent and you're newer and you've made it the last two, three years, kudos to you. There's been tremendous change, tremendous affordability problems. Um, to be a real estate agent nowadays takes a lot of guts and a lot of grit, you know, because you have to work your butt off and uh and you have to be on top of so many things AI, marketing, new contracts, uh legal stuff, liability, brokerage, compliance, you name it. It's a it's a it's all of it. It's a full-time career, it's a job. And if people have to treat it as a full-blown business, and if they don't, yikes, budgeting, it's all there, man. It's it's a tough road. But if you're if you're playing at your highest game, you can do really well in real estate. It's an awesome career.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

So yeah, and you know, to along those point, you brought up full-time job. Well, how many of the millions of agents out there are part-time? Like a lot, right? That have maybe other jobs and they just get this or they get it because they might want to buy a house themselves and keep their commission or so they think. And it's like more of a hobby. And I think those are the agents that are gonna go by the wayside or continue to fizzle out. And perhaps, maybe what will happen from this is that our status will be elevated, right? So there'll be less of us realtors that stick to the market. We'll be a higher quality, higher caliber. Maybe our barriers to entry will um get a little more difficult, which I think they should, and we become more of a fiduciary, like some of our financial advisors say, for example, or attorneys, um, which is what I think our role really should be. We're handling hundreds of thousands of dollars for our clients, often of which is their only type of retirement that they have. And for a lot of my clients, or the majority of it, their best way to build wealth. And we just have to take, you know, some hours of classes and go past the test. Well, it's no wonder some agents are not making it and and others are are thriving. I I don't know. We'll see. We'll see what happens.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

So here's the last question I want to pose to you, Courtney. Let's say you're an independent broker, okay, and you have five to 20 agents in your work in your brokerage. You're hearing all this churn in the marketplace, you don't even like know where to start. It's hardly, it's so hard to even keep up with all this stuff that's going on. What would you say, like in a couple of minutes, like to that person to lead their people through all this change? What would be some things you would do?

SPEAKER_00 28:34

Well, number one, when there's change is to overcommunicate, right? You just need to stay ahead of it, have conversations with your people, uh, open it up for questions that they might have and be a good listener, because it might be a little bit scary to people with change is scary. And I would just say to make sure you're having that open dialogue with them. I think if you already have coming soon options with your local MLS, then it's a little bit of business as usual. And I would just reiterate that, hey guys, you know what to do. You go out there, you build those relationships with your clients, you keep doing what you do well, and you're going to be okay and you're going to land on your feet, and we're all going to be fine. This is not going to be the end of our business, and we can all grow together. But I think that would just be as simple as that, right? Just having an open dialogue about it. And or if you're really confused as a leader, go seek out counsel from someone to have a conversation with, a mentor, um podcast, something where you can kind of learn some different perspectives on this where you can create your own opinion on what's going on.

SPEAKER_01 29:37

Yeah. Makes a lot of sense. Makes a lot of sense, Courtney. Good conversation.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Yeah. Well, thanks, Jeff. I don't know. I think we covered pretty much everything we're thinking. Or I feel like I spewed. Sorry about that. No, no.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

No, it's good. It's good. You know, it's it we all are learning through this, going together, doing it together. You know, it's like, so, you know, if you're if you're somebody you've been listening to us, hit us up. Let's let's start some dialogue, right? We're all here to help each other. And uh, we really believe in the collab. So collaborate with us. We're here to help you.

SPEAKER_00 30:09

Yeah. So you can reach out to us through our broker rehab YouTube channel. Just comment on there and we'll make sure to hit you back. Or you can find us on Instagram with all things twists and Jeff Sutherland. So thank you guys so much for listening.

SPEAKER_01 30:25

Thanks, everybody.