How DEEP Meditation Actually Works (Beyond Mindfulness)

On episode two of the Numina podcast, Sam reunites with Dr. Deven Patel — the University of Penn professor who originally sent him down the meditation path. Dr. Patel is a scholar of Sanskrit, Indian philosophy, and contemplative traditions, with decades of experience studying, teaching, and practicing classical meditation.

Our conversation quickly moves past the usual “mindfulness” talk and into the deeper layers Dr. Patel has spent his life mastering — the parts of meditation that truly challenge the mind and reshape attention. Instead of treating meditation as a wellness routine, he talks about it the way it was originally taught: as a disciplined, transformative practice that can take you far beyond simple breath awareness. Few people understand this topic better than Dr. Patel so we think you’ll really enjoy this interview!