How to Make Friends After 40: Why Adult Friendships Feel So Hard

Making friends as an adult shouldn't be this hard... but somehow it is.

In this episode of WTF Just Happened? Life Is Messy, Let's Talk About It, Sada and Hilary dive into one of the most common struggles women face in midlife: finding meaningful friendships after 40.

Whether you've moved to a new city, gone through a divorce, lost a spouse, become an empty nester, changed careers, or simply drifted apart from old friends, building new relationships as an adult can feel surprisingly lonely.

Why does making friends seem so effortless when we're kids, but so complicated in our 40s and 50s?

💛 In this honest, funny, and heartfelt conversation, we explore:

✦ Why friendship breakups can hurt as much as romantic breakups

✦ The reality of loneliness after moving to a new city

✦ Making friends after divorce, widowhood, and major life transitions

✦ How social media, Facebook groups, and community events can help you meet new people

✦ Why adult friendships require vulnerability and effort

✦ What happens when friendships drift apart or no longer fit your season of life

✦ How to put yourself out there when you're an introvert

✦ Why friendship rejection feels so personal—and why it usually isn't

✦ The surprising ways our own friendship group came together

💛 Sada shares her experiences rebuilding community after moving from California to Idaho and navigating friendship after the loss of her husband, Kris.

💛 Hilary opens up about moving, friendship breakups, divorce, and the challenges of finding genuine connection later in life.

Together, they share the lessons they've learned about finding your tribe, cultivating meaningful relationships, and creating community in midlife.

If you've ever found yourself wondering...

✦ How do I make friends after 40?

✦ Why is it so hard to meet people as an adult?

✦ Will I ever find my people?

This episode is for you.

Because the truth is...

Some of the most important friendships of your life may still be waiting for you. 💛

🔗 Connect With Us

🎙 Podcast: @wtf.lifeismessy
💛 Hilary: @its.hilarybrophy
💛 Sada: @simplysadajames

If you’re moving through grief, a midlife shift, healing, or simply feeling stuck in the in-between, Sada offers RISE — an intimate 8-week mentorship experience designed to help women feel supported, understood, connected, and less alone. It’s a space for anyone craving real community, honest conversation, clarity, and a softer landing place through life’s harder seasons. 

We love you for being here. Subscribe, share, and stay messy with us. 💛

⚠️ Disclaimer

This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only. The views shared are based on personal experience and do not constitute medical, legal, financial, or professional advice. Always consult a qualified professional regarding your individual situation. Guest opinions are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the hosts or this podcast. Any products mentioned are not sponsored unless explicitly stated.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:03

This is What the F Just Happened.

SPEAKER_00 0:06

The podcast that proves life is messy, midlife is so wild, and laughter is definitely non-negotiable.

SPEAKER_01 0:13

So grab a cocktail or a mocktail or your favorite emotionally supportive snack and let's get into it.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Hi everyone. Welcome back to What the F Just Happened. I am Hillary. I'm Sada. Hey everyone. Hi. So tonight we're going to be talking about making friends after 40, 50, really honestly, just any time, sort of in adulthood and why it's so hard and why women have such a hard time doing it. But I want to take us back for a second because this is like huge in my world, maybe not so huge in Sada's world. But we just dropped the friendship breakup episode a couple of weeks ago. And we've heard from a lot of people reaching out to us and saying that friendship breakups are still something that a lot of people are still trying to get over. And it's been really hard that it's like it's harder than divorce sometimes. Yeah. Because you've got your girlfriends who you love and adore, and when that goes south, it's really challenging. And you tell them so many deep things that are secret. Yes, intimate. Where everybody when you have good close friends as women, you really go to the depths. So total sidebar. Summerhouse. I'm not watching it. Okay. I haven't watched it yet. It's on my bucket list. If any of you are Summerhouse fans, please message me and tell me I'm not alone. I, with my girls, have been watching this since the beginning. Yeah. Actually, I've watched it since the beginning, and my girls have just come in recently. But the biggest friendship breakup, it almost goes back to like the Vanderpump, like whole Schwartz y, like the whole like the whole that whole thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:58

I don't know why I haven't watched Vanderpump either. Yeah, okay, you have Hillary. She I watched she loves reality. And I do like reality. I just don't, I haven't watched Vanderpump in like a long time. And actually it wasn't Tom Schwartz. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

I think it's out. So anyway, so Sierra and Amanda best friends. Best friends for years. Yeah. Sierra's like the most beautiful human in the entire universe. Amanda's cute. So Amanda's getting divorced, and she is now with Sierra's former ex. That's wild. And they're all in the house together and play wild. I'm crazy. So and they all live together? They're all come so Summer House is based on people coming together for the summer and renting a house in the Hamptons. I don't know. And it's all the stories that's been going on. Okay. So you've got Amanda and Kyle who are married and have been together for 10 years. And he has Loverboy. Have you heard of that company? Nope. Okay. You've never heard of this? Oh my god, it's wild. I'm so invested. So so invested. So they're getting divorced. Long time coming. Very sad. Sierra is Amanda's best friend, stunning, beautiful, smart nurse, model. Like she's amazing. Okay. She was with West a couple of years ago. Very in love. I do like that name. Yeah, West. Yeah, but he's I I I personally don't know what people find in him. I was like, how do you get all these chicks? It doesn't have to watch it. Baffling to me, especially Sarah, who's like a supermodel darling. So yeah, flash forward, Kyle and Amanda are now getting divorced. They just announced they're getting divorced. We're separated. And she is with Sierra and her still best friends, doesn't tell her. And she's now with having a relationship with Wes. So we dropped our friendship episode. And then Summer House Reunion started. Yeah. And that was last friendship breakups. It was friendship breakups. What do you say? Friendship breakups. Well, just yeah, it was part of her. Friendship breakup. And it was like the biggest friendship breakup of the summer. Oh. Then came out. I think my girls talked about it. It's wild. Anyway, so I just had to start with that because like I am still stewing about it. Last night was reunion it was three. Yeah. And it was crazy. It was I have to watch it.

SPEAKER_03 4:13

It's so bad. So if you haven't listened to our friendship breakup episode and you also watch Summer House, that's a good combo for me.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

Or even just like I only bring up Summer House in that it's so representative that you can have really beautiful friendships and then sometimes life just catches up with you. Yeah. And then it's like painful. Like watching I'm a grown woman, and I was crying watching the heartbreak on this Sierra's face for the betrayal of her friend. Yeah. And it's wild. You're like, you were such close friends. Why would you ever put a man in front of, especially this man, in front of your girlfriend?

SPEAKER_03 4:55

Did you get uh any messages after we dropped that episode from anybody about um our friendship breakup episode? Like I got quite a few. Yeah, I did too. Yeah, I did too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

Just how hard, and that's my point is like resonates. It's just hard. Like you're watching in real time this friendship breakup, and you're like, why? You were such beautiful friends. Yeah. Like you had this authentic is this a younger version?

SPEAKER_03 5:20

They are in their 30s. I would say like mid-30s. It doesn't just matter. We we've had plenty of things happen when we're older, which we'll touch on that. But anyway, so yes, I got we got lost in message. I got messages on friendship breakup. And just like, oh my gosh, this is so I resonate so much with this. I had a friend. Yeah, I was so sad when you know our friendship really just like friendship breakups, meaning even even if they didn't end in um turmoil, they ended because it was just a season that no longer existed.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

Yeah, I had someone reach out recently who just said that she had a good friend or was a new friend, actually a newer friend. So kind of we'll talk about tonight, who they did some traveling together and then she just kind of stopped talking to her. And I said, Well, did you reach out? Right? Yeah. And I don't you know, she had. Yeah. It was like you might want resolution on that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Ask the question of like, hey, did something happen? Did I say something?

SPEAKER_03 6:19

Yeah, was it was traveled.

SPEAKER_02 6:21

Did something come up that didn't sit well with you? But don't just let it go. Like have that hard conversation. Yeah. If it was someone that was important to you. So anyway, okay, so friendship breakup, heart, soul crushing, sometimes very hard to get over. Tonight, opposite. Opposite. Is making friends. How do you make friends after I would say let's call it just 40? Yeah. Simple math. Is yeah, midlife is you've got your friends, right? When you're five, your mom set you up with play dates. I do with my girls. Yeah. And then you say it's your neighbor's kids, and you're playing like with kids on the street, kids on the swim team, kids on soccer teams, whatever the sports are, and your friends because of life. Yeah. Right. Where you go to school, all those different things.

SPEAKER_03 7:07

I think a lot of friends that we develop uh as our when our kids are younger, obviously from yes, school. I mean, all my girlfriends in California are mostly from our kids going to school together.

SPEAKER_02 7:19

Exactly. I met a lot of them in neighborhood in the new preschool. Yeah. And then our kids went to school together, and then we played sports, and that's how the girls were friends with people. I may have tried Girl Scouts.

SPEAKER_03 7:29

I did, I yeah, I tried for us, like it's a smidge. No, I'm like, I can just buy the cookies. I don't need the Girl Scouts. That was so ridiculous. Have you seen those boxes? No. Okay, wait. I think a box used to be $2.50 and like $2.50. I think they're like five or seven dollars now. And they're even they're like tiny, small, little, like little tiny little boxes. Yeah. So I tend to actually racket.

SPEAKER_02 7:51

It is, I know. I I actually don't take them home. I'll just like buy them if I'm walking out. What you're feeling. I'll give them like full fidms, of course. Oh, yeah. Well, I won't take them home. I'll actually say, like, hey, here's two boxes. Give them to somebody who's walking by that looks like they're having a problem.

SPEAKER_03 8:06

Yeah, or they send them to the mil the like guys overseas or women and men.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

There's actually little in California where I s I find I do like so many, and I send them to the um like the Jewish home for the aged.

SPEAKER_03 8:17

Oh, because I'm like, don't send them to me because hi.

SPEAKER_02 8:21

But one sleeve, one thinks not going right out. I don't know what's happening over here. I know it's a self-don't go off a GLV because you can't actually do it by yourself. So yeah. So I'm like, you give me a sleeve and I will, yeah, I don't have any self-control. Oh, oh my gosh. But yeah, so then your friends, and then you go to college, and then you've got your friends from school. Or let's say you go, you don't have to go to college, but work. So I kind of then made friends with 20s. So you're like in school and you have those friends. I know my girls have lots of, let's say I had sorority friends. Yeah. And then you go to work, and then you've got friends at work, and that's how I had in my 30s. That's your life in your career. Now you've got maybe having kids. Yeah. And now you're back in kind of that cycle of sort of how right my kids became friends with their friends. Yes. You're then in that same cycle, neighborhood sports, schools, all that fun stuff. So now, flash forward, you're 40.

SPEAKER_03 9:16

So it's so much harder. It's hard. We talked about this before we started the episode. Like, what is the factor of it being hard? Is it because we've moved? You know, you and I talked about like our whole friend group moved from California to or Oregon to Idaho, right? So we met here. Like our story's pretty wild, but obviously we're all meant to be friends. But um I do have to say I've moved a couple times since living in California in different parts of California with my kids. And yeah, I never like I've settled in here with girlfriends in Idaho, but never really like my California, my Ventura County, California girlfriends. I'm still friends with like a couple of them. But honestly, some of them moved as well. So we really like honed in on sharp moving when you move moving at stuff is very hard.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

And you're starting all over, right? You're starting over with people. And I think it's twofold. I think for our friend group, or what I have found people who move is one is your option now of seeking friends. Yeah. So it might be the first time in your life, because let's just say you grow up with people and you're friends with. Or you go to college or school or you're working, you have had those friends for decades, but now all of a sudden you're in middle age and you're in a new place and you don't have any friends. My friends.

SPEAKER_03 10:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:40

Yeah. When we moved here, well, I moved to Oregon and we were in Oregon for three and a half years.

SPEAKER_03 10:45

I made two friends. So why do you think, yeah, why do you think it was that you you made two friends in Oregon from moving from California, and then you came to Idaho and you had a plethora of friends. So Oregon was really hard for me.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

Yeah. Because coming from California, weather was dramatically different. Everyone's outside. Which people say, oh, the weather is but what no, I think inside. That's what I mean. Yeah. Yeah. So right, we're always right. Our neighborhood in California, always outside, outside, always having fun on. Kids are outside. Yes, running around. Or you're walking, you're eating out patios, all of that. My kids come known for like, especially their little, like running around naked, like they never had clothes on, cannot keep clothes to kids. Yeah. So, but yeah, no, Oregon, it was inside. No, no, and so I met Amy, who we've had on, Dean Melcare, who's amazing. Love her. Incredible, right? Incredible nurse, owns medical rejuvenation in Gladstone. She happened to be my neighbor who would happen to also move in. So she'd come from the East Coast. Oh, okay. And she moved in, and the way we met was because her dog, her darling dog, was running loose. Of course, I'm a dog person, so I stopped for any dog at any time. And I stopped and I was walking back, and she was looking for her dog, and then we ended up meeting each other and totally hitting it off. And we became friends. So she was one of my two friends. My other friend, because I was in such desperate need of friends, so sad, I bought a rug off of, I want to say Craigslist, because that's like 11 years ago or maybe 10 years ago. Is Craigslist still around? I know. I mean, I think it is, but not in the way that we used to do. It makes me nervous. Yeah, I wouldn't do Craigslist now. Sorry, Craigslist. Is I need to start talking about things I don't think that they're gonna sponsor us. But I've noticed I only talk about things I don't like. Uh so I need to start like hi, like I love Minky. Yeah. Minky. We have uh tons of them. Yeah. Our entire friend group. Yeah. You are Minky people. Yeah. So I went to go pick up a rug from her and bought it. And then because we were emailing each other the details. And I I think I emailed her and said, like, hey, would you like this is Oh, you asked her out of that? Yes, I asked her on a date. I was honestly dating her. Yeah. Where I think I said, You're she was super cute, super stylish. Her house was phenomenal. Yeah. So cute. And I think I said, like, hey, would you I said I this is so weird, but you know, like, would you ever want to go get coffee? Yeah. And then she became my second friend. Oh, and now it's just more of like a Facebook friend, as I see her and she's so happy, and she just got married a few years ago. And yeah, she was dating her longtime boyfriend at the time, like same person. And but I mean we haven't stayed connected that way because we left, but you know, text. Yeah. But she's, you know, it's fun to sort of stay involved in her life. And then Amy and I sort of text every now and then, and she's just the best. But um, yeah, I mean, I was literally dating for friends. Yeah. It was just different because I think I was able to get into like a mom Facebook group, but that's how it sort of all like I look back and think I have- I think you told me that you were in a mom's Facebook group.

SPEAKER_03 13:50

And someone reached out and they were like doing wine nights. Yes. And you like you just what they like just posted and you just went?

SPEAKER_02 13:57

No, I think she reached out to me. I think I had made a comment on a post about something, and she reached out to me privately and she was a realtor, and she ended up being a little crazy. But um, but she hosted these wine nights kind of for people who were newer. Oh, okay. That's it. And I'm sure it's probably smart when it's a realtor. But she was fine. Um, Sean immediately was like, Okay, this woman's insane. Like you're but I look back and think of who we got to know when we first got here. Like for that. So yeah, it was just because we were so desperate to like meet people that you know you're not it's different like when you find your people than when you're trying to like just have a group of people that you know. Yeah. Because we didn't know anyone here. Yeah. But yeah, it ended up like go turning into a one co group and like that kind of stuff. And then it sort of blew up because not I didn't blow it up shockingly, but other people blew it up. Yeah. But it was really dramatic. And you're like, Well, I'm not looking for dramatic friends. Right. I'm looking for like normal friends. Yeah. But when you were you were here for years before.

SPEAKER_03 14:59

Yeah, I said that yeah, I was here, I've been here almost 10 years, and I met you guys in a after I had been here for five years. I had beautiful I have amazing friends here. Um, and I yeah, I think that when I first moved here, yeah, I had kind of worked part-time like at a restaurant, and I met my girlfriend Shayna, and we became friends, and then I owned my shop. I own my clothing shop. So I should met a lot of people through there, and then that's where I met Marlo. Yeah. Um, and then I think that it I don't know. I think I was just probably spending a lot of time with Chris, and my girls were still in junior high and high school. Sure, so you still raise a kid. So I was also like involved with making sure they were kind of settled in.

SPEAKER_02 15:45

Did you meet other moms though, like when you moved here? Is it different?

SPEAKER_03 15:48

No. So it was like me in Oregon. It was different because you don't when you have when you start in junior high and school in an another state, you're not volunteering anymore. Right. Right? You're not working in the school office. Right. You're not, um and they all know each other. Well, yeah. I mean, I'm assuming because they've all been here, right? So like Yeah, I don't think it's out there. When we went to Oregon, it's so there's not a lot of opportunity. And I'm a social person, you know. I feel like I used to be a business.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

Oh, and please you're also did your kids take the bus? So yeah. Okay, so I'm gonna I don't know. So this is for people who I when we moved to Oregon, I was very confused. I felt I'll sh I'll share my best. I was like, you send a bus to take our children. My kids wouldn't ride it. They won on it for like two times. Yeah, like we're not doing that. Yeah, I think that was Matty too.

SPEAKER_03 16:35

You can drive me. Uh I fought I actually followed. Okay, when you live in California, you don't take there's no buses in California. You just get your kids to school, you carpool. I don't know Yeah, like car hold, right. I living in Idaho, that's a whole that was a whole new thing for me. So there was a bus schedule, there was pickup areas in neighborhoods. There's like everyone lives in these neighborhoods where you kind of know the neighborhood by name. Yeah, so there was pickup spots. I followed the bus in my car when Maddie was on the bus, followed it through the I had never uh like let my kid go on a bus, like ever. And I was thinking, like, who's on there? Are there weird things happening? I mean, like you just don't, it was the same thing as us moving here, and you'd see like five-year-olds riding to their friend's house or eight-year-olds, and or they didn't have helmets on, and you were like, Where are your parents? It's just a different, it's a different way of living. All that to say, uh, it is uh um yeah, it's different. It's a little bit different. So moving here. Did you follow all the way to school? Yeah, I no, I fell it was home. It I followed, like I went to school and I followed like so you like waiting until the bus pulled out? Number like 63 bus. I saw her get on, you know, and she was probably mortified. I mean that she's probably in therapy.

SPEAKER_02 17:52

I wanted to be like, get me, mom, like I'm gonna get off and get in your car.

SPEAKER_03 17:55

I just want I didn't know the bus route and I didn't know kind of like like how long it takes. How long does it take? Yes, are you saying I have a video on my phone. I was like, I love that. But so all that to say, I think when you if and when you move in very hard years, which that's a whole nother podcast, uh junior high and high school, there's not a lot of opportunity for moms to meet other moms because they're already established with their girlfriend groups. And there's not a lot of unless your kids are doing full on, yeah. Maddie was in, I think, gymnastics for a bit. I didn't really, I think I met maybe a couple moms. I actually did. I and then I met another mom through my girlfriend Ashley. Um and Layla just kind of developed her own friendships because she was in high school. Yeah, and it's true. It's so hard. It's just way different. It's so different. And I don't know that I I was always busy and I didn't feel necessarily like lonely for friendships. I just knew I was a social person and I wanted to be able to get out and like do things with people. So yeah, I mean, I opened my shop, um, my clothing shop that introduced me to a lot of people. Um, and then I made a lot of friends really on the internet, like on Facebook before I even moved here. So I had acquaintances. How is it how did you know them? Um, because I joined the mom's group of the local cities we live in before I moved here. Right. So that's kind of what you do when you live and like join the local groups and you kind of get a feel for like doctors and you know, dentists and where the restaurants are and all of that. So I I just kind of did that, but did I ever like I didn't find um like so my girlfriends that I have here are like the five or six or seven of you guys are my core tribe, right? And I have a beautiful group of acquaintances, but they all don't know each other. Right. So it's just like kind of fun off that I hang out with.

SPEAKER_04 19:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:47

Um, that are just like my beautiful friends who I love. So those are the people I did hang out with, but they didn't have like a core group either because they also moved here. Right. My girlfriend Shelley moved here from Manjura County where I moved from. Right. Um, my girlfriend um Shana moved from Oregon. But like she she came from Oregon? Yeah, she came from Bend. Oh, that's right, Bend. Yeah. So um wonderful place I've not been to ever. Yeah. And oh, just like my our, you know, my girlfriend Christy that moved here. Yes, Ben. So like these people moved here, but they're all like singles, you know, like single singles who don't have a group yet. Right. So it's so hard.

SPEAKER_02 20:23

It's so hard to move. Yeah. I think our when like you said, is we were coming here, is that's how I met that first person, was I joined Okay Yesful mom group.

SPEAKER_03 20:34

We wanted to like how did you end up?

SPEAKER_02 20:37

You so you joined your Kenzie was still in high school, and then the other girls were in college, and so I joined the local mom group, but I don't have I'm not a mom of a little. And you kind of met people that way, and then you know, thankfully and didn't you join the Boise State? Like, were you in with some Boise State or more sorority people, right? I was right, so the girls were a sorority, so I met some people, that's how I met Marlowe. Right. And that's how I met through my family. Yeah, so it's right. So I was part of the Boise State parent page. Right, me too. And I think I was also part of the local parents. Yeah. Where Boise State, and I think most colleges have this where if you have a local parent group, so if your child, let's say, is local and the parents are out of state, which a ton of California kids are here, is anything happens, you can reach out to this group of parents who are local. So, like I did, you know, like the this is like also during COVID, like the COVID drop-offs. Yeah. Kids are sick, or you just need to like prescriptions or doctors. Whatever it was. I mean, there were some parents who like kids went to a hospital and you know, they would text and be like, I happen to be, like, say, gone and that's fine. But you would grab a parent and the parent would literally take your child to the doctor. So yeah, like the local so I did that and then write the local mom's group. Yeah. And that's how you kind of just stair stepped and met people. But it took years to find our friend group. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:58

And so that's it. Friends. For me, it took five years. You and but then I guess if we're talking about like mine was probably like two. The rest of you guys moving here, you I've been here the longest. Yeah, we've been around seven and a half. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

So so that you know, we wanted to touch on like it's hard when you move. And then you don't have anyone. It takes years to establish friendships.

SPEAKER_03 22:18

Friendships. So it's really lonely. And and I want to touch on too, like, let's just say you didn't move, and it's hard to have friendships when you go through some of the big events that we've gone through, like divorce, widowhood, um, yeah, uh, career changes, aging parents. Um, you know, some like my friend group in California, there's a ton of grandkids in that group. And we in our group here, there's not one grandchild. Right, you know, so it's just a different friendship group is just kind of like a ball. Yeah. It could it could be the same even if you still were in your hometown. Because well, I mean, I remember there was, you know, yeah, some divorces and in our friend group in California and it like blew up some friends. French one moves, right?

SPEAKER_02 23:01

So my sister was still local, so we're like an area that we not raised in, but let's say she's a half an hour away. All of her friends have moved. Yeah. She's got one really good core couple friend who actually came from our hometown and they still see them, but everyone else has left. So she has like all my friends are in like Georgia and Texas.

SPEAKER_03 23:21

She is she feeling. I mean, you'll have to speak for her on our podcast, but that's interesting to me. Does she is she missing those people, or do some people don't need a lot of friends?

SPEAKER_02 23:31

Yeah, no, I think I think she does. I mean, my sister is one of those people who is just I always say she's lovely. There's she's just a lovely kid. She's really close to my nieces who are adults. Yeah. So obviously that has transitioned. Yeah. Um, both of my nieces are now married and their spouses are. My girls are like our girls are older and we can hang out with them at the time. They are. And they so they live within the furthest my one niece is maybe 15 minutes. The other one's at seven minutes. Amazing. So they see each other all the time. Yeah. And the husbands are incredible. And they were actually friends growing up. So I think my sister, so she's got her girls, and then my parents are still there. Thankfully, she's really wonderful helping with them. But no, I think, yeah. I mean, I think that she loves her friend who's there, but she's oh, she's yeah, she I think she's I think she you know, I think it's like kind of harder.

SPEAKER_03 24:25

I mean, because she's not struggling. Yeah. Because she's busy and we're traveling. Like I just went to Florida and met my California girlfriends because that's where we could meet and spend time together. So I love that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

But it is. I think it's like, yeah, because it's like you're not the one moving, then other people are moving if you're staying behind. Yeah. But yeah, I think that you know, she's not, she's certainly not. We actually never really talked about this, is she's not lonely. Yeah. Um, I talk to her every single day pretty much. But yeah, I mean, I think, you know, it's like it is hard when you're people leave.

SPEAKER_03 24:55

I think it, yeah, or there's a uh friendship breakup, like we just talked about in a friendship group, you know. That's right. And then you have to like remake. Like remake new friends. That's a hard that's that's hard too. Um, I think or when you first were here, did you do you remember being lonely? Um I don't I can't remember if I felt like bored or I think I was okay. I think I was good. I had Chris, I had the girls, I think I was side stuff. I had my side hustle stuff. I, you know, worked, I had a job. Like I I met lots of different piece pieces of girlfriends and different kinds of, you know, one at a restaurant, one here. I guess I just never felt like I had like my, I mean, I have a solid group, big group of girlfriends in California. So I guess I feel like I I had them there still and I didn't go home. I didn't go to California a lot or have, you know, I've I don't go all the time. But yeah, I I guess I felt like I'm so blessed that I had all of you guys come into my life and the way that it did.

SPEAKER_04 26:01

Right.

SPEAKER_03 26:02

And that obviously it was, it was already the path was already laid. Absolutely. Chris was gonna die, and then you guys were literally gonna carry me. And I think when you go through like a really hard tragedy, divorce, widowhood, whatever it is, and you're with that core group of people, there is absolutely no like you are bonded to those people for life. Absolutely. Right?

SPEAKER_02 26:23

Well, you'd hope, I mean, because that was my friendship breakup story is I went through with my best friend, we both got divorced. True. And hers was challenging in a different way. Mine was really hostile and traumatic. Yeah. So I mean hers was hard because it's emotionally hard to end a marriage. But anyway, she was able to buy her own place. And like, so you still are dividing kids, but it was you had another functioning of parent. Right. I didn't have that, but we were like bonded. It was, I mean, that was pretty it was years for me to get divorced. It took like I think two years for me from the time I filed to actually being fully divorced. And yeah, I mean, I and that's why that breakup was so traumatic.

SPEAKER_03 27:12

Cause I You did go through some deep.

SPEAKER_02 27:15

We did went through some really deep times together, and I just never could have imagined that we would not have been friends. I still think that to this day. I'm like, wow, how did we like how did that blow itself up?

SPEAKER_03 27:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:27

So, but yeah, I mean, it's just it's hard. I think that people who so the question is like if you're moving, and I have two questions actually, is if you're moving as a couple or you're moving as a single, because the person who reached out to me after the friendship breakup, she's actually single. And she said it's hard. Does she live here? She does. It's either really hard.

SPEAKER_03 27:51

We don't live in a massive metropolitan city.

SPEAKER_02 27:54

No, but like I can't imagine is not only are you I mean, at least if you come in a couple, you have your partner. Yeah, absolutely. Right. And then if you're coming single, well, I hope you love them. I love my partner.

SPEAKER_04 28:08

You do have a huge deal.

SPEAKER_02 28:09

But that's where I'm like coming single and then let's say being lonely and not having someone just like your built-in best friend. Yeah, that's really challenging. So I was saying to her, is like, well, you know, like what if you where are you trying to make friends? Well, and I think she's a like woman like our age, let's say my age. Yeah. And most people are couples.

SPEAKER_03 28:28

So that's like a whole other that's a whole other, you know, uh topic on, you know, how do you mesh the guys together too when you really bond with like these girlfriends? How do you you just hope that the guys also get along and and that they mesh together? So that's called bourbon.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

Yeah, that's called whiskey. How here's what you do you get your guys together and you group them by IPA, fear. Or non-alcoholic fear. Non-alcoholic or bourbon. Yeah. And you then start with you get the guys together and they talk about, in fact, we have a picture of my husband with all the guys doing a TED talk on whiskey. That's true. Was Chris here? Oh no, Chris had it already passed, yeah. No, because that's when remember he was doing like the Angels Envy. Oh, yeah, for a toast for him. Yeah, yeah. Did a telescope. Yeah. I literally looked over and I'm like, what is Sean doing? He was giving a TED talk. And I swear to God, he looked like he was on a stool with a thousand. And I think all the guys had hearts in their eyes. And they were all like staring at him. And he was, yes, he was talking about what he knows best, which is bourbon. And yeah, but that's uh that's how you bond your men is you bond them like either a sports or something.

SPEAKER_03 29:40

Yeah, like everyone's into pickleball now, or everybody, you know, there's you know, all all of that kind of stuff that you can kind of do as couples, I feel like are becoming a little bit more popular.

SPEAKER_02 29:49

Right. Okay, so let's talk about it.

SPEAKER_03 29:53

I think that like when you're single, I would imagine that your girlfriend, like you just assume that everybody already has their group.

SPEAKER_02 29:59

That's I think the biggest thing is right, this is where you have to date. You have to go to date with your stint premise. Yeah. Yes. So how do you how do you start to do that? You join pickleball or whatever gardening club or book club or whatever volunteers. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 30:18

You know, we talked about that a lot of research groups, religious groups. Well, and I had so today I just sent Hillary on social media and I sent this over to my daughter too in in California. Um, cutest girl. Her she had her Instagram. Um, and it was basically for girls, I would say in their 20s or early 30s, and it was like an Orange County like meetup group um to meet new friends. And it was such a brilliant idea to do and then have your tags be, you know, whatever, San Clemente, Newport, whatever, wherever you're at. And then you just do like a walk or you get coffee. I think that's such a smart way for that age bracket, right? To be able to I've seen that here.

SPEAKER_02 30:59

Or here, yeah. I've seen that here where people have said, like, oh, we I just moved here, I'm starting a golf course.

SPEAKER_03 31:06

Meetup women's group or like a a 20-something group, then there's a golf, a new golf group. And then there's the go get coffee.

SPEAKER_02 31:14

Go get coffee group. So it's like the challenge is you have to put yourself out there.

SPEAKER_03 31:18

Yeah. So what if you're an introvert?

SPEAKER_02 31:20

So that's hard. Because I kind of feel like I teeter on both. Me too. Is especially after COVID.

SPEAKER_03 31:27

But COVID like wasn't really a thing here. No, but I think it made people like um be kind of more homebody-ish, is what I'm saying. I well, I mean, COVID was great because I already worked from home.

SPEAKER_02 31:37

So COVID in my life, I didn't change nothing changed. Oh, okay. So it's like, you know, I think I realized that you could get Amazon in two days. That was my big baby big breakthrough. Yeah. That was life showing. Now you can get it day up. I honestly, if it's not here by 6 p.m., uh-huh, I'm like, well, where are you? Uh-huh. You said it should move to six, it's seven. Like, why have you not delivered? Yeah. It's insane to me. But yeah, I think that's where you know during COVID, I think right, people started to go for cocooning. Cocooning, yeah. And I think that became very normal to sort of stay in. And I and that is hard. Like, if you're an introvert, you know, it's hard to put yourself out there.

SPEAKER_03 32:16

Yeah, and I do it's also exhausting. Like, it's really tiring. It's really tiring. So you've got a full-time job.

SPEAKER_02 32:22

Our bedtime, like our beds, beds and our couches. So I do want you guys to message me on this. Um, just get so I need like two people. That'll make me so happy. Is nine o'clock your bedtime?

SPEAKER_03 32:35

Well, I like dinner. I like dinner at like 5.15.

SPEAKER_02 32:38

Yeah, I do too. And then because then like you can start with. So we have still makes your dinner reservation at like 5.15. When the restaurant opens. Yeah. Fucking amazing. Yeah. It's then we're home by 8:30. Right. Nine. And makeup off in bed. And your jammies. Nine. So excited. Oh my god, I love my bed. Yeah, the best. And then, you know, you take your little like melatonin. And then we send each other. Pegesterone. Pegesterone, like all your sleep stuff. Uh-huh. And then you're all off to Slumberland. It takes about 45 minutes. Yeah. And then we send each other like. And then we should all get back online at 2 or 3 when you wake up. And? Oh, right. Because we're I wake up at like 2 to 3. Yeah, always tell my sister just message me because I'm awake. So this is actually maybe that's how you begin friends. Is you actually go on your sleep schedule. It's like, who is an all-nighter? Uh-huh. And then who's like up in the middle of the day? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:29

I mean, I'm kind of a I I kind of stay up late, but like at home. But I mean, if we're if maybe on trips I can rally and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 33:37

Yeah, 100%. Yeah, 100%. We just went on a trip. But you guys, I like went to bed at what, like 11? And well, and you and you guys were texting each other, like, it's midnight, should we still stay off? Oh, yeah. I was asleep.

SPEAKER_03 33:50

It was hours past my bedtime. Um, so maybe for introverts, I mean, I feel like I'm you have to join stuff. You do have to freaking join something. You have to join stuff, you have to put yourself out there. But I think I do think that a good idea for introverts, and if you're moving, is really those Facebook groups joining, kind of feel like looking at the posts, looking at people's responses, seeing who you kind of resonate with. That's how I've met a ton of my girlfriends, my moms from Crohn's groups from I have such close, amazing girlfriends that I've never met in real life. Right. Well, yeah, I haven't met most of them in real life, but they are close girlfriends who I can message at three in the morning if I need to, because I'm resonated with them over Maddie's Crohn's, but also, you know, we I just put myself out there, like I'm struggling with this or whatever. And then I created my group and now eventually those women are friends. Right. So I do you just have to find those little pockets. The little pockets where you then you private message someone and say, like, hey, you blah blah blah. Or like, I, you know, I loved what you said about yeah, it's just it's hard.

SPEAKER_02 35:02

And then you do at some point, right, to become like really close friends, and not that those aren't like very good close friends of yours, but you have to, let's say, to grow a girlfriend group. Yeah. Is you then have to get together in person. And then this is, and I'm gonna just throw this out there, this I guess I'm really bitchy. What? Is well, because you can then meet people, and it's hard like when you're starting to try and make friends, is this I look back on the people that we were acquaintances with or friends with my first move here where you're a little bit more like, oh, I'm just trying to get to know people.

SPEAKER_03 35:34

Yeah, not everybody's gonna be resonating with everybody sick. Well, because like you have different style, different views, I differ to know people. You know, you're and it's okay to walk marriages, and it's okay. It's like that's what dating girlfriends are.

SPEAKER_02 35:47

You're literally dating, which is right, but that's where I mean I just remember looking back on our first Bunko group was wild. Yeah, like it was fun, and that's how actually I met one of the the third person in our like couple group. Yeah. I met her at Bunko. Oh, okay. That's how we actually came to know each other. Okay. And as someone who was part of that Bunko group who I had met brought her in because they had lived in SoCal together and worked together at the same company. Okay. And she lived here, and I was like, she was freaking funny. Yeah. And then we ended up going out, the four of us, and this is before I think she ended up getting engaged, who she's now married to that husband. We went out the four of us, and I think they had moved here similar time with us, maybe a couple of months after. So, but I was she was like at the Bunko group, and I just remember thinking she is like this really dry humor. Yeah. It's just funny. Yeah. And but it took a second, like to like we met, and I don't even remember how we reconnected after that. I'm not sure if we exchanged phone names, but like she stuck, but I think back on the rest of those people, and there were some wild people in that group. Yeah. And the drama that went through. And they probably have those people. You're not 20. We're not even in college. I mean, the drama was like the cattiness and the infighting. I can't have that. Oh my god. It was a crazy town. I can't have that. And thankfully the bunker group blew up, so that's where they call it all stopped, which is great. But I would say Bunko, Bunko. Bunko's circuit. Mahjong is uh blown up Mahjong. And that's mostly probably women. I but is that true?

SPEAKER_03 37:16

Yeah, I mean, I think so. I I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 37:17

I think men could I mean in Crazy Rich Asians. I love that freaking movie 500 times. That it was all women in that playing mahjong at the end. Yeah. I didn't see the math. And now they have floating pool mahjong too. I know. We need to get that.

SPEAKER_03 37:30

We need to get one of those. Nice one, floating pool. Well, we don't know how to play mahjon pool. Yeah, but we can we can just move stuff from the phone. The tiles are so pretty and simple as that feels like it will hurt my brain. And we're trying to play golf and pickleball. We're trying to do things. And that's that seems like another added thing that we can't commit to. Why are we doing all these things? We already have friends. Because we need to get out of our houses. Do we? Yeah. Well, yes. I don't know. We do. Do we have to get out? I only have 3,700 miles on my car and it's a year old. I think we need to get gas is expensive. You should stay out. It is. It was $100 to fill my tankers yesterday. Stay home. Well, that'll last me a long time.

SPEAKER_02 38:07

Okay, so anyway. If you're out there, so I think kudos to you if you're single, because I think it's even more challenging. Yeah. So you have to then right join these groups, go.

SPEAKER_03 38:18

I feel very well, everything you're interested in. Even if, you know, thinking about my girls, like Maddie just went on a like a mission, medical mission trip. Oh, very good. Yeah. So, you know, those types of volunteer trips. Those are amazing. You meet people that you're gonna be friends with for life. She's like, Mom, I will like, we'll be in these people's weddings. Like, we are so close. And I was because you bond so deeply.

SPEAKER_02 38:42

Yes, because you have this thing. You're going through this.

SPEAKER_03 38:46

It's like, yeah, you're sweaty, you're hot. There's no air conditioning. There's no hot water. Like you're going through these emotions. So in a place where like we come back to our society and we have it so easily.

SPEAKER_02 38:57

Oh, she's like, Mom, we're so like we're so right. It is. We're so blessed, but I think you it's it's such a bonding in.

SPEAKER_03 39:03

And it's like some of them are crying, like you're crying because you're out of your element and you're tired and you're hungry and the food's weird. Like, right, you know, so she's like, that's those are great experiences. Those are great experiences. I've gone on plenty of um, you know, like I've gone on women's business trips and um to Colorado. I've gone on retreats by myself. I I just am kind of like that anyway. Like I you totally do which yeah, you totally do. Yeah, I usually do pull yourself out. But I know that I'm going to something because I know it will like better myself, and then I end up meeting like really beautiful people, which I'm still friends with. Right. Um but yeah, I mean, I think that you join join the running club, join join, right, join the hiking group. Um I I think it's also a benefit too for us because we were all or we all are pretty much empty nesters.

SPEAKER_02 39:50

Very much.

SPEAKER_03 39:51

So that is a like a factor when you're over.

SPEAKER_02 39:54

It's like adult day camp for anyone who's not there yet.

SPEAKER_03 39:57

It's like adult day camp. Let's give the yeah, let's give hope so good to the 30 something that still have little ones.

SPEAKER_02 40:03

Yeah, you're gonna get to a point where I mean our kids are amazing. I love my children, they're the best.

SPEAKER_03 40:10

But but it's super fun when you get to just like be kids again and like with your husband. Yes. Unless he dies. Unless he does. Oh shit. Yeah. So anyway, yeah. Um let's not do that. Let's not do that. Yeah. But I'm still having so much fun with you guys and fun with girlfriends and so much fun with my kids because they are adults. I guess and they're incredible.

SPEAKER_02 40:31

Um, so I think that's just kind of like what But we do need to dial back, I think, all the things we're trying to do. We're trying to really like we signed up for all this stuff.

SPEAKER_03 40:39

I know, you're right. You're right, it's a lot. By the time it comes around, it's like I don't want to do this. Yeah, I think if you're an introvert too, I would definitely say, like, I don't know. If I put yourself out there and go like on a rich, like a weekend women's retreat, I just feel like that also bonds. Right. And there's always gonna be like kind of like odd balls or weirdo, like not in a bad way, because those people also bond with their people. Right. And that's why there's so many people in the world. But like it makes you kind of like get yourself out there and kind of find, you know, these these friends that you technically could spend the weekend with and then become really good friends with, you know?

SPEAKER_01 41:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:17

Um yeah, I don't like, and I think that would be hard for me is I don't know if I would go away. I don't like being uncomfortable. I don't yeah, I don't, and that's been a challenge. I just don't. It's the reason like I won't go swim in the ocean because there's sharks. Where are there sharks? Um, there are going to be sharks where I am. Where? But like in a lake, there will be sharks. But it's one of those where I know it's not actually gonna happen. Yeah, but I can't, I don't, I've not done well in my life with putting myself into like really uncomfortable situations. And I know that there are people who really thrive on that to and actually seek out those growth opportunities.

SPEAKER_03 41:59

Well, I think most of the things I've gone on by myself, not knowing really anyone, were really just knowing that I was an adult and I could go and it wasn't about meeting friends, it was about like working on myself or about business. Right. So I did really have to have that mindset because there are those times at those events where you kind of have to do like icebreakers, and I freaking hate those too, you know? Like walking in a room you don't know anybody. You don't know anyone, you're kind of standing there, you're you don't have your phone as safety net, you just kind of have to it like makes you talk to people and then you really get meet some of the greatest people of your lives. No, I think that's great.

SPEAKER_02 42:34

I I I think it's absolutely beautiful that you do that because for me it's just I would probably just stay home. Yeah, and that's and it's why I know so much about reality TV. There you go, and that's exactly right. That's because Bravo has a lot of shows, and there's some I actually don't even choose to watch. Like, I'm like, I can't take on another show. But yeah, like I know all about their lives. Yeah, they're having great lives.

SPEAKER_03 42:58

Um yeah, I just think too, you know, just knowing that you can resonate with other women, you know, divorce can wreak havoc on friendships, widowhood. You know, you you thought certain people were gonna be there and they weren't there, and then you have these other people who literally step in and sweep you up like from the airport when you know I have to like not travel back home with my husband, right? And you guys are all standing there, right? I think that like really bonds your friendships. But absolutely, I think there's yeah, walking through the fire with anybody is really bonding. It is, but also knowing that down the road, I'm not saying we're gonna all be friends forever, of course. That's the that's the plan, right? Unless one of us moves or whatever. Um and then we're still gonna be friends, and we're still gonna be friends, but there are different seasons for different friends, even in our 40s and 50s, I think, you know.

SPEAKER_02 43:54

Well, and that's it. I think that if you and that's why I would say my learning from moving and making. New friends is when you realize that there are wonderful people out there, but they're maybe not like for whatever the reason is, you're not bonded and you don't see like you going the distance. For whatever that, like you you kind of know in your soul when you're kind of like, ah, I love you but this is not something like I I want to continue pursuing. It's also okay to like have maybe conversations and dial that back to maybe more of an acquaintance. I'm not seeing you to have a breakout, but it's okay to recognize that not everyone who you do meet and you start to connect with, because it takes a lot of effort. It's a lot of effort. And it takes a while to get to know people. Yeah. So it's a good idea. Yeah, they're yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 44:53

And I think traveling with people, like you see a different side of people. I think that if you can figure out who you can travel with, those are your people.

SPEAKER_02 45:00

But not always, because we traveled really well with our people. Oh. And then there was true. It's just it just takes years, I think, to really get to know people and see all the nuances. And this is where have the hard conversations when things start to go weird.

SPEAKER_04 45:15

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 45:16

If let's say you feel like the friendship can be salvaged, but then it's also okay if you realize like they're not your people. It's not your people.

SPEAKER_03 45:23

And then unfortunately, you sometimes have to start a lower dad. And I did feel, I feel like I learned uh this lesson as I was into my like late 30s and now into my 40s, which is like you could have really beautiful friendships with acquaintances that you just can't seem to like find the right schedule to see each other on, or maybe the there's just not a friend group there. Right. Or you go have a great dinner with somebody. But I'm talking about like beyond that circle are the people that you like see in the grocery store. Yes. So I'm very like aware now because I used to just be such a people pleaser, and now I just don't, I cannot do that at all. Especially after Christmas. Um, if I see someone in the store that I've been friends with, maybe I worked at a company with or that I was friends with, maybe from my shop, that I love that I think are their create, they have their own lives. They're good, they don't need me. Right. But I used to say we should get together some time. Right. I do not do that anymore. Right. It's like if you jump me it, don't say it. I well, and I used to, and then it was like almost like I was like a failure because I never followed through. You know, and then they would say the same thing. And when do we each really want to go? Probably not. But it was lovely to see each other, right? So now I'm very aware um that I just say, like, it was so good to see you. You look so good, the kids are good, like you seem like you're doing so great. So great to see you take care. And then bye.

SPEAKER_02 46:47

And then so now I have a question. So let's say you meet someone that you actually really like, and maybe they're really bit like maybe they've lived here and they have their friend group, and they're not like let's say someone meets you. Yeah, and they're probably like, love you, like you seem incredible, and I want like I want to be friends with you. So that's so let's say, so then what does that person do? Like they're gonna have to reach out to you, and let's say you're gonna like, ah, I've kind of got my people, but like there's someone, there's someone that they think like this actually could really be a good friend of mine. Like I want to do.

SPEAKER_03 47:23

I have a lot of those types of friendships. I have a lot of like I would say maybe six to eight women here that are outside of our initial friendship group that I don't feel like I always have enough time for, but I love and want to make time for. And when I do see them, it's such valuable time. And they're amazing women, but I see what you're saying. Um, like yeah, I see what you're saying because sometimes I feel like I wish I had more time to give to people that I really want to hang with. And but I'm very like careful with my time now. Sure. With my mental state, well, of course, nervous system and all of that. Yeah, you've got to be. But that is a hard one, especially like let's just I mean, I'm sure I've met people over the years that maybe I wanted to be friends with and they didn't they were thinking like maybe I'm not a match for them.

SPEAKER_02 48:18

Yeah, but like I'm so let's put ourselves in that position of And it's kind of hurtful. Like when I had to like when I was sort of like reaching out and saying, like, hey, do you want to go get coffee? To me. No, this is my friend in Oregon. Wait, did I tell you yes or no? No, we were all on a text thread that I think yes, right? Yes. So um, but that's it, is right. Let's say I really want to be friends with her. I could tell she was really cute, really fun. Yeah. Thankfully, she was receptive to right. But let's say she was like talking about rejection. Yeah, right. Like, what if she's like, oh, you know what? I'm like really busy now. You know, let's try and do that another time. Well, then it takes a lot of like you're gonna, I'm just gonna say, if you want to be friends with someone and you're cultivating it, it it's just like a relationship with, you know, whoever the person of, let's say, love interest is, you then have to follow back up again. And if you do, I think it's harder on it in a friendship. Oh, in a situation, it's harder for friendships for sure. Than like if some love interest is like, ah, you know, I'm too busy right now, it's like, okay, well, cool, there's a million other men or women in a state.

SPEAKER_03 49:23

You also have to be like aware and receptive. And I want to be able to like share this with my girls too, that when you really kind of think that you bond with someone because you think that you have things in common or their style's the same as yours, or they're they like, you know, the same, they you know, also like to run or whatever it is that you feel, there's going to be people in your lives that I think we've all experienced that you want to be friends with that they aren't reci they don't reciprocate. And that is what I want to teach the girls too, is like, it's okay. It might feel like rejection, but that friend is doesn't, isn't a friendship match for you. You know, either she doesn't have time for you or I don't have time for that person. And I'm experienced that where I almost feel like bad when I've met a couple people that I really do feel like we could be friends with, but it it's like the timing never really like lined up. And they probably thought, oh, she doesn't have time for me. So then they probably like got their feelings hurt. And I maybe never followed up because it was just too much for me at the time at the time or after Chris passed, or whatever it is, whatever season I was in, it never meshed like super easy. Um, so I I imagine that if we can take a step back and see, like, not even if you really, really like someone or you really bond with somebody, it has to work both ways. Totally. So like don't take it personal. Yeah, like I I mean it is sad, but like not everyone's gonna want to be your friend and not everyone's gonna want to be my friend. That means 100%. We want don't really want to think that, but like it is true. Not ever, not everyone wants to be our friend. Yeah, no, you don't want to be everybody's friend. No, no, that's what I'm saying. So, like, if we cannot take it personal and teach our my girls, is pretty different. Which it's true because it does feel like it's such a rejection.

SPEAKER_02 51:10

I mean that's perfect. My struggle with my third person that I talked about on our friendship breakup, yeah, is I'm not friends with my former friend by choice. Right. I thought we would navigate a different friendship, yeah. Separate from that friendship, and it's been challenging and we've had little conversations about it. Yeah. And I but I do, I feel like I text and she doesn't respond. Yeah, it does feel like rejection. It does have to work both ways. It does, and that's where I finally was like, okay, it's okay. It's okay if she doesn't want a closer friendship. Yeah, it doesn't work for her because I'm over here doing my thing with our friend group, and she's doing her thing with the other friend group, and it's like, I can't push that. I think it has to be mutual. It has to be mutual. And it's like, it's sad, but that is it.

SPEAKER_03 52:06

It's like she was somebody you really just feel like you can really like kind of see yourself kind of hanging out with or they're super fun or when you go out, they're like the life of the party. But really, in the big picture, it does reciprocate.

SPEAKER_02 52:20

Yeah, but and it's also one of those where you end up going and seeing each other, and it's like you just pick up where you left off. I but then because of life and like the circumstances, when you separate, you're separated. But then when you come back together, it's kind of like I've got some girlfriends in high school, yeah. Where you pick up where you left off immediately. I love it. Like time has not changed. Yes, I have to do that. But then you can go like months without talking to them, but or years even. But then when you get back together, it's exactly the same. But yeah, I mean, I think those are it's like that fine line of like friendship. I yeah, it's like it's at heart. And I'm not saying that one friendship is hard because it's not, it's just it changed to something I did not expect it to change to.

SPEAKER_03 53:01

And maybe that is where we go back to like that friendship might just have run its season. I hope not. But that particular I'm saying in general, yes, you kind of have to think right how much effort are you putting out and the other person isn't. And maybe the other person wants to be friends with you and loves you. Yeah, exactly. But she also has her friend group. 100%. And she's like 30 seconds. And she has her husband. Yeah, because it is, you just don't, you can't take it personally. You can take it personally. And there's always there are so, and I will say this again, and I think I said it on the last episode. You know, to I would say it to you, I'd say it to our to our girls, all of our girls, which is some of the most amazing women that you are going to meet in your life that will walk you through the fire you haven't even met yet. 100%. You know, and even for us, I could say we probably all are still gonna still meet women that we love later in life, you know. Absolutely. Um when he meets those people.

SPEAKER_02 53:58

I would say, I don't know. So I've got twofold is one, I think back on like our friend room, and yes, we got intimately closer after Chris passed. Yeah. Like it launches into a new dimension. But I also feel like before that, it just like I think back to like when did we become friends? And I can't even pinpoint. Me, you and I. Like all of us. Oh, why made the group text? No, I know, but I'm saying it was so seamless that it's not like I think of that like with our my with with our friend who starts with an M. Yeah. She was introduced to me of recent. Yeah. I met her last Mother's Day, had never met her before, had heard many wonderful things about her. Met her for the first time, and then really started to talk to her like one-on-one in let's say January, had gone to a Christmas party at her house, love, thought she was amazing. Yeah. And I was thinking about this the other day, and I thought to myself, like, when did it like flip into like we're actual friends? It was so effortless that like I just feel like I've known her forever, even though I haven't.

SPEAKER_03 55:01

I think that when you bring a friend in um from the outside, yeah, right? Yeah, it makes sense. She was already friends with and I already knew of her. She was already friends with another girlfriend in our group. Yes, both of them. Yeah. Like, I don't think she would bring somebody else into our group. Um, I mean, if it wasn't gonna be like a a match, you know. I I mean we went to the movies, but I remember going to the movies with her, and I was like, oh, she's so cute, like yeah, so great. And then we kind of didn't see her. And it was just like the tiny just unfolded, and then you had her, you know, like come and do stuff. And it's weird.

SPEAKER_02 55:36

It's like I just but there are those friendships where they're just so you know, you can't like put the like I think of like the woman in Oregon. Like I can think of like the times that we went to coffee and then we went to dinner, and then we got our husbands together, and like we never became like good friends.

SPEAKER_03 55:51

Yeah, that's like solid.

SPEAKER_02 55:52

Yeah, we were friends, yeah. But it was one of those where there's some like ours where you just think back of the you've got like these memories of doing things, but it just all of a sudden like you were just friends. Like it just kind of morphed into friendship effortlessly. Well, without a few years, I also did walk through But I'm talking about before that. Before her cancer? Yeah, before yeah, well we had a friend. Oh, we had a friend, yes. It was our friends who had cancer. Okay. But even like before Chris pass, like we I don't know, like I just there are some where you think back of like Oh, you're saying the details of some friendship of like how you became friends. Yeah. And then there are some where you think back of like what was the turning point where we're friends, and it was like I can't pinpoint on our group. Like one day it's like we're just we crossed over into not getting to know each other. Like a port, a friendship portal. We did. It's like we went through like the portal and we ended up on the other side.

SPEAKER_03 56:47

We're that had a lot of people. And it was all like, you know, roses and and like unicorns and uh had wine on the other side.

SPEAKER_02 56:53

But no, I mean I think there's our times where like because some of them are harder and some of them are easier. Yeah, but it's funny to look back and think, oh, I can't remember.

SPEAKER_03 57:03

We didn't tell our story on this podcast, and maybe we will at some point of like actually how our friendship group literally came together as a puzzle.

SPEAKER_02 57:12

Well, just I mean, throw it out there. I'd say, like, let's just do it now.

SPEAKER_03 57:14

It was, I mean, but it's so like and it's so intricate. It's so so bizarre. It's just so bizarre. I okay, all right. I'll say we'll make it fast. Real quick. Where are we on time? Um, let me look. Uh, we are at an hour. Okay, so we're gonna make this really fast.

SPEAKER_02 57:29

Okay, real and I've got one more that's really funny.

SPEAKER_03 57:31

Well, let's show we um okay, we yeah. Basically, our friendship group is all intertwined in very, very, very crazy ways. Yes. Um I let's see, I'll just start with I had can I am I saying names? I like I say skip names, but okay, so I had uh my shop. So I have to call it. Well, then one of our friends loves being called out, so she does. She does. She's like, I think everyone likes a shop. Shout out. Shout out. So I had my shop, my clothing shop. Um, and then uh my niece and her daughter talked, and my niece said, Oh, you should go to my aunt's shop and go see her clothes, they're super cute. So her daughter said, Go the shop. So Marlo comes into my shop and introduces herself. And then we, I was like, Oh, she is like the best thing since fruit and sliced bread. So she's gonna be my friend. And so we exchanged numbers, we talked for like an hour in my shop, and then oddly enough, it was her birthday that day, and I we went to a local restaurant, and that night I was at the restaurant and her whole family came into the restaurant and she was sitting there, and we were excited to meet each other again, but she happened to be there, so that was my beginning relationship with Marlo, right, through my niece and through her daughter. Okay. Okay, then I have Kendra. So Kendra and I were introduced through my girlfriend Tamara, who lives in Orange County, who's a teacher who did some multi-level, like some running and field stuff. She said, My girlfriend's moving to Eagle. Can I connect you guys? My girlfriend Kendra. So Kendra messaged me maybe like I don't know, months or a year before she even moved here. Yep. So I was giving her all the the stuff, like you know, doctors, all that stuff, and and we kind of became friends and talked about our kids. Okay, so that was her. And then we met, you and I met because um Kate, my niece, and your and your daughter were um sorted sorority together. Yep. And um, but how did I And I met Marlo because our daughters were in sorted? Okay, so yeah, Marlo and Hillary's daughters were in sorority. I Kendra from our hometown of California. But keep in mind, I did not know Hillary. Yes, I didn't know that Marlo, Kendra, and Hillary slightly knew each other. These were all separate meetings. All separate, right? Separate meetings. So it's like the matrix. It is. That's why it was like we could talk about this on another. It's so weird. So I think at one point Marlo and Kendra were getting their toes done back in California, like at in their hometown. They were at Pizza. Or pizza. They said they brought my, they said something about um they said, Oh, my friend Seda has a shop, and then Kendra and I had already been talking, but Marlo didn't know. I thought it was oh, maybe I maybe maybe wrong. Marlo didn't know like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:14

I just know that those Kendra and Marlo who did not know each other from our hometowns, because it's we all came from places in California. Yes. So we did not, let's say, know each other personally. I knew Kendra as a business acquaintance. Yes. In California. I did not know Marlo. We all did not know each other. They weren't, they met at a going away party for Dan at Pizza. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:35

They met, but then they were, I think they were getting a pedicure. Oh, she said something about, oh, my friend Sada has a shop, a clothing shop. And then Kendra was sitting next to her and she goes, Sada, does she live in Idaho? That's why and she said yes. And she goes, I've been talking to her on Facebook because we're moving there. Yeah, that's and it was me. Not but I didn't know any of you absolutely. You didn't listen.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:56

You guys it's like a total it's a this is just like a thing that or like higher power who I just feel like we it was meant to be an actual friendship.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:04

Yeah, and then so then I start then I realized that we all everyone knew each other and we somehow exchanged phone numbers and I got a little group text called uh um California to Idaho Wine Girls. Yes, and that's the next margin.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:18

I know that I absolutely know there was a text where I think we were all like just chatting. Yeah. And then at some point, it was probably me, said something like, Oh my god, my fucking kids. And yes, and then we then got really real about like whatever the kid had done, and then someone else was like, Oh my god, that's great because my kid just did this. And it was it first. We just went to the winery to like meet. I think we went to the course. The text about the kids was before we ever met up in person because Kendra hadn't moved here yet. Oh, it was one of those where you're just being real that your life is not perfect, yeah, and that life is life, and kids, as wonderful as they are, can be challenging. Yeah. I was having a challenge with whichever one was a challenge that day. Yeah. And I think then everyone was like, Oh my god, that made me feel so much. We started all laughing and saying, Okay, this is a space. It'd be funny to actually context thread. Right? Like this would be like everyone can be totally authentic and no one's being judged. You're right. And it was just all we were all laughing. And it was like, okay, you can let your hair down, is we're all real people, and it's no big deal.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:24

It and I think it just yeah, it bonded us. And then I think then we had, you know, and then we got together, and yeah, it was funny. Get together at a winery, and I think everybody started just being super real. Yeah. Um I think everyone's very authentic. I remember when you know Maddie was in the hospital and was diagnosed with Crohn's, that also bonded us as friends because that was so obscure. So scary. Um, and every one of our friends.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:48

Just so you guys know, that was about a year before Chris. Well, it's not totally a year, it was about what 11 months before Chris passed.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:55

Yeah, it was actually almost like a year. Yeah. Yeah. Because she was in Arizona. Yeah, it was an old thing. So I yeah, there's been some big events actually at our friend group between and then we've kind of added to the friend group since then. We have, we've had other friends come in. And now our team is full. So I just think it's a it's just like keep an open mind to to have friends after.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:17

And they come around because I could tell a really quick little story um about my friend who's on the other side of the country, who we may share an almost similar email. Very, very similar. Yeah. Off by like one digit. And it's possible that I, since I can't sleep at like 2 to 3:30, I may do a little like online shopping. Yeah. I might be the person, if that's don't know if anyone does. Yeah, have your glasses on. Where no, I'm never wearing my glasses. Also, my brightness is turned down because Sean's asleep. Is I will wake up in the morning and be like, I'll see all the like the oh, you ordered, and I'm like, oh my god, I ordered what? Like, what if I do that when I've had too much? Yeah, but I'm exactly. I'm not even, I can't even blame the wine. I'm literally like, oh, I wake up and you're like, confirm, confirmed. You're like, okay, so this is probably goes back, I mean, because I got married 11 years ago. So I'm gonna change my email 11 years ago. Knowing me, I probably changed it in advance of actually getting married. Because I was so excited for Sean to finally marry me. And so she has been getting my because sometimes I miss the digit because the digit is right before the at the aunt sign is she's been getting lots of my email confirmations on a lot of pillows for years. I feel like pillows. So she's been getting confirmations for years, and then finally, about I want to say three years ago, I finally there was something that had my phone number on it. Oh, that's in oh, okay, right. Like on a confirmation. It was a confirmation or something. I was sending one of my daughters, lived in New York at the time, and she shockingly is in is in basically New York. She's in a different park, not by Manhattan. But I was sending, I think, cupcakes to one of my daughters who lived in Manhattan, and it was for her birthday. And I, of course, was doing it probably one in the morning. Yeah. And she it finally had my contact information, including my phone number. It wasn't just my email, right? And she reached out and left me a message. It would have been like six morning, and that would my ringer was off. Yeah. Saying, Hey, this is so-and-so. I I've been getting your emails for years. Like years. And I fucking.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:33

We heard of it. It's not the exact same name, but it's a similar name.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:36

Similar name with like one letter off. It's what's the email. It's like one digit off. Yeah. Our emails are literally the exact same except for one digit off. Yeah. And yeah, so she has been. So I was like, oh my God. Yeah. I am so sorry. Cause I know she's been getting these for years, but I didn't know who it was, right? Yeah. And it has become it's so funny because now I'm like, I text her, she texts me. Like we go. Okay, so wait you did.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:00

Miss the part. So she calls and says.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:01

So she calls and says, Hey, I've been getting your emails for years. Because it was a cupcakes. I wanted to let you know that the order is confirmed and it's being delivered, like at whatever the code.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:11

The cupcakes are gonna get there.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:12

Yes. I left her a message back and said, I am so sorry. Yeah. Like, and then it became a joke where I'm like, oh hey, maybe on like those purchases I don't want Sean knowing about. Yeah, like maybe I'll just send you the shit, right? And you can file it and I have her need it. But it's gone on like it's been so like and I still F up, and then we were laughing because one of my daughters, she is leasing a car and I'm a co-signer, and many companies also screw it up. So she gets stuff that I'm not even trying to send her. Yeah. So I decided to recently have her like send me the lease contract because this company could not get it right. Yeah. And I'm like, I've told them a million times. Like it's just been this ongoing joke. But we started in like an email friendship where we would just like joke around. Like it's like Hi, how's your weekend? What'd you order this week? Like just read out the history. She's funny as F. So it's so funny. And then we've now transitioned like texting each other and checking on each other. Um, but she's adorable, but like how freaking weird. Okay, there you go.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:12

There's no friendship. Weirdest friendship story of someone that you've never met in real life. Never met in real life. You have to love her. She's adorable. Walked through some a few personal things with her. Absolutely. On your side. You haven't even.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:24

I've gotten like the most amazing. I got it. She said she does a friend. She's a simple gift. Oh my gosh. She does like this whole like friendship, like the Galantine's gifts. Yeah. Oh my God. All the product. I mean, it was just the cutest thing and like the nicest card in fact her cards over there that she gave us. Um that's like in our podcast room. I love it. Yeah. But it's like you just get you just never know. Look for the most random thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:47

And keep your keep your eyes open and your heart open. Because I have um my girlfriend Hilary, who will come on. She's a therapist in LA. Um her and I have we were friends for years, and we finally went to this convention together. Not together. She was going and I was going in Nashville. And that's the first time we met. Like I have a video of us like meeting in person, but we had become such personal friends. Okay. And she's like one of my best girlfriends to this day. But we've actually, and she came, like I've seen her, I think maybe three or four times in my life. Right. But she is how did you meet her originally? Um uh through oh, uh, through my girlfriend Ashley here. We sold Young Living together. Oh, sure. And so she was like on my like my team or what like she was on the team and we just connected because she was so cute. Her um her best friend is also named Hillary. That's Hillary and Hillary. Uh-huh. So we met and I instantly connected with her. And we, I mean, she's walked through me with all she came to as a service. Like she is just, I mean, we're yeah, we I will never I try to not go to California without seeing her because she's just so dear to me. Sure. Um, and she'll be on the podcast at some point, like we talked about. But I went years without ever meeting this person in person, and she was one of my best friends.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:10

Well, because you I think that's kind of like honestly dating, and you're not there like as far as like what we'll talk about that many years down the road. But when you start to date, yeah, and this I think is true of many scenarios, is to be open like on emails or texts or phone calls, it's different than in person. Yeah. And you can go pretty deep pretty fast. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:32

The difference is or we would do Marco Polo a lot. So you were like seeing each other here like ways. I knew that I connected with her because I see you're like, I liked yes, I knew that she was in person to like no, but you could you you can get to know somebody very much by the we would leave tons of voice messages to each other. So you really resonate with someone that you connect with absolutely based on personality. Like I struggle with type A's, like I really struggle with like really, really, really type A personalities. I mean, you and I are really good friends. I don't know. I wouldn't I was like you're not full type A. I'm not at the end of the year. No, you're organiz you're organized type A, but I'm I am like as B as you get. You are? I don't feel like I don't know. I'm the one that forgets everything. No, I'm not sure if you're telling me something I forget. Who cares for that? Well, you're type A for me, so to keep me organized.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:22

No, but like I'm not no, I'm not type. But if I'm not type A. I'm like, I actually need a little bit more type A in my life.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:28

Well, I'm yeah, executive function is what I'm working on next. Anyway, all that to say, keep your minds open to beautiful friendships, even if they're not in person. Although I think in person friendships are so important. They're so important. Um never thought we were gonna ask, just if you really like someone, just kind of think of it as dating. Like you do, yeah. You're dating your girlfriends and and you know, just cherish those friendships and know that they could also just be there for a season of your life, especially. Well, hopefully not. Hopefully they'll walk through all of the seasons.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:03

But yeah, so that's what we hope for.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:05

Yeah, that's what we hope for. So I was just making sure we covered all of our notes.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:09

Uh but send us messages. Where did you meet your friends? Did you meet your friends after 40? We're just calling it 40, whatever the age is. But how did you meet them? Like, what are your stories? What are other tips do you have for other women? Yeah, where are the chips you have for your kids, your daughters, you know, trying to make friends in an age now where people don't really talk to each other. Yeah. Right. There's not a lot of social interaction. I know for my girls who are in their mid-20s. It's harder to even to date and also make friends because college is over and they work remote, let's say, or women works remote. So I think that's hard.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:43

For our girls' age group, I think they're more open to doing these clubs like these things. And social media should change the game, you know, tremendously. Imagine if we didn't have that. Like you would have to like Oh my god, I'd be so I'd have to enjoy it.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:58

If I didn't have social media, I'd probably be retired. If I never met Amazon, oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:06

Ah, well a dream. We're we're thankful that you guys uh came to join us on this. Yeah, but send us messages. We love hearing from you and then Yeah. We'll listen to we'll be here for our next episode in a couple of weeks. And thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:22

Have a great night. Bye. Bye.