Individual Products in Group LTC Planning?

Group LTC plans are built for accessibility but what happens when the group in front of you needs something a true group product can't deliver? Understanding when and how individual products belong in your group LTC strategy could be the difference between losing a case and winning a client for life.

In this episode of the Buddy Study Podcast, Jason walks through the strategic role individual LTCi products can play in group long-term care planning. From executive carve-outs and tax deductibility to association groups that carriers won't quote, this conversation explores the real-world gaps where individual solutions step in and how advisors can position both product types as complementary tools rather than competing options.

This is a planning conversation, not a product pitch. It's about developing the expertise to know what fits where.

We explore:

• Why true group products are the easiest on-ramp to LTC planning and where their limits begin
• How traditional individual LTCi fits into small group executive carve-out cases, including tax deductibility and partnership considerations
• The underwriting realities advisors face when using individually underwritten products with groups and how to pre-screen effectively
• How carriers evaluate non-traditional group types: associations, PEOs, and non-employer affinity groups
• When individual products like annuity LTC, short-term care, and hybrid plans fill gaps that group coverage can't
• Enrollment timing strategy: why an off-cycle first enrollment often outperforms a January 1 rollout
• The long game: how group plan relationships create individual planning opportunities over time

This episode is designed to help advisors:

• Identify which group situations call for individual product solutions
• Understand group-level underwriting standards and what causes a carrier to decline to quote
• Build a complementary strategy that combines group and individual LTCi for broader client coverage
• Approach group LTC education with the transparency and trust that turns starter plans into lasting relationships

Chapter Markers

0:00 Welcome & Episode Overview

2:35 Why Individual Products Belong in Group Planning

4:10 Traditional LTCi in the Group Space: What's Coming

5:20 Tax Deductibility & the Executive Carve-Out Case

7:00 The Underwriting Challenge: Leaving Employees Behind

8:10 Partnership Considerations & the Middle Market

10:10 Inflation Protection: Where True Group Plans Fall Short

13:10 10-Pay Options & Employer-Funded Plan Design

15:00 Group-Level Underwriting: When Carriers Decline to Quote

16:40 Association Groups & Carrier Appetite Variations

18:50 PEOs: The Most Polarizing Group Type

22:00 Individual Products as the Association Strategy

25:30 Gap Fill: The Expanded Individual LTC Product Landscape

27:20 True Group as the Starter Plan — and the Education Strategy

31:00 Transparency, Trust & the Long-Term Client Relationship

35:50 Enrollment Timing: Off-Cycle vs. January 1

42:35 Final Thoughts: The Markets Are Learning From Each Other

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🔎 About Buddy Study Podcast

The Buddy Study Podcast helps insurance professionals and financial planners master Long-Term Care Insurance through case studies, expert interviews, and carrier product updates. Our goal is to help advisors become more confident, efficient, and knowledgeable when helping clients plan for long-term care.

Transcript

Welcome & Episode Overview

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey everyone, welcome to another edition of the Buddy Study Group for Worksight Solutions. And I got a problem because the restaurant put individual products in my group long-term care, and they're lucky that I'm not allergic. So we've been just talking internally about group long-term care. We've seen groups of all shapes and sizes. We've seen groups uh with all different sorts of wants and needs. And it is true that true group solutions really make a lot of things an easy fit, a smooth process. And that's why we have been so involved in the group long-term care space, first and foremost. Uh, you can talk about products, sure. There's excellent products available in the true group market, but nothing is ever a one size fits all when it comes to long-term care planning. We all know that. And the more and more we're kind of going through this evaluation, and the more and more we're getting uh unique groups that just require a certain fit, we're continuing to evaluate individual products as part of group long-term care planning. And we've talked about this from the beginning that True Group products uh are essentially um a very easy-to-access, affordable starter plan for many that they will eventually hopefully uh supplement with individual plans as income allows, uh as their needs allow, um, things of that nature. But in many ways, the group market that we're seeing today is, I would consider it we're we're in the very first batter of a ninth inning baseball game with the group market as it stands today. And that's a good thing. There's a lot of room for growth, there's a lot of room for idea exchange, there's a lot of room for strategy to develop as we've spoken about it. We're going to see many different types of carriers enter the arena of group long-term care planning. So it's about time

Why Individual Products Belong in Group Planning

SPEAKER_01 2:35

to talk how individual and group products may work together, where some may work better than others. And we talked about this on a study group, an individual study group last year, but I think only good can come from group and individual products learning more from each other and taking ideas from each other. Um clients end up winning in those situations. In the individual market, we're seeing a lot of competition right now, new entrants, new products, repricing, uh, new benefits. And the group market is just as competitive right now, if not more competitive. So we're gonna talk about um a few places where I think individual products fit. And I'd I'd love y'all to weigh in. I know that a lot of our audience is comprised of um people who are individual long-term care planners first and group second, but we also have a number of people who are benefits folks first and aspiring long-term care specialists uh and and are coming to learn more about the market. So um I just want to kind of theorycraft in real time and give you some of the the observations that we have around where individual products may fit. So I think first and foremost, uh we have to talk about traditional long-term care on

Traditional LTCi in the Group Space: What's Coming

SPEAKER_01 4:10

this nature of a call. Uh, traditional products are something that are definitely coming to the group space this year, um, most likely toward the end of the year, but we know a couple of carriers are gearing up to release group products. Um traditional long-term care has a lot of merit in the group space. To be honest, we've been um sorely waiting for you know traditional products that are as true group as true group gets. I can't tell you that these products are going to be guaranteed issue. Uh I'm almost certain they won't be guaranteed issue in all cases. Um, but even access to traditional products with a very simplified underwriting process, a more streamlined underwriting process, uh are sorely needed for groups. And of course, you can use some of the individual traditional long-term care options that are out there to plan with groups today. But why is traditional so important to groups and business owners, especially? Number

Tax Deductibility & the Executive Carve-Out Case

SPEAKER_01 5:20

one is the tax deductibility, of course. There are other individual products out there, lifelong-term care hybrid plans, that have some measure of tax deductibility when the premiums are paid as the business, right? Um, but only the long-term care portion of the premium, and only if those premiums are separately identifiable, right? So if the carrier breaks out, what amount of the premium is life insurance premium versus what amount of the premium is long-term care premium? That kind of paves the way if it's a 7702 be filed long-term care plan to have deductibility on that LTC portion of the premium, right? Traditional long-term care, well, the premium's all long-term care. It's all long-term care, right? So there's a huge opportunity for that tax deductibility of the premium. So there is nothing stopping you today from approaching a business owner of a group and presenting individual traditional long-term care and pursuing an executive carve out case, right? With that business owner and having the ability to talk about the the tax advantages of doing so, of opening their checkbook and purchasing plans for their employees. Now, where you can run into snags, of course, is number one underwriting. These are fully underwritten products at this point in time.

The Underwriting Challenge: Leaving Employees Behind

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Um, and you may run into a situation when we talk process of employees being left behind because they cannot help qualify for that product, right? That is one of the the biggest hurdles of using individual products with groups right now. Um, there's nothing that is going to uh upset an individual employee or even the business owner more than um finding out after the fact that maybe three out of the 12 employees you worked on this program for would not qualify. And now you're back to the drawing board trying to find individual alternatives for that employee. So that's why we're generally more forward with the group long-term care products, uh, the true group products with guaranteed issues underwriting is because that is not a part of the conversation with those products. So um, you know, traditional long-term care also offers partnership considerations, right? Partnership

Partnership Considerations & the Middle Market

SPEAKER_01 8:10

is really, I think, the most underrated piece of traditional long-term care that people aren't talking about today, especially for the middle market, right? Um, to have that extra asset protection against the Medicaid spend down, uh, which is, you know, going to differ um by plan, design, and state you're in, uh, is a huge, huge benefit. And right now there's no true group product that offers any sort of partnership considerations, though again, they are coming soon. Um, but I think if you have, I'm gonna put my Mark Glickman hat on because Mark's not here today. If somebody tells you that they want something and this product will put them in a better place, give it to them. Try, try, try your best to give it to them. I mean, obviously you can make recommendations and you can give reasons for your recommendations, but at the end of the day, if somebody wants XYZ product, if you have the ability to do it, uh, you should go down that road and and try it. We've had um groups that um have asked about traditional long-term care. We've had uh folks who have said, I want to wait until a traditional long-term care product hits the market. And that's perfectly okay. These groups, um, and the reason we didn't write individual policies with them right away is we're talking eight to twelve hundred life groups at this point. Uh I simply can't imagine uh writing eight to twelve hundred paper applications and doing case management through full health underwriting for that amount of people. So I would say individual traditional long-term care plants are more suited for those small group executive

Inflation Protection: Where True Group Plans Fall Short

SPEAKER_01 10:10

carve-out kinds of plants. Um, but again, all sorts of merit. Like we see inflation protection as one of the main sticking points for people or questions we get on webinars or questions we get from business owners or decision makers. Is this plan going to offer inflation protection? You know, if my 40-year-old employee, 30-year-old employee buys this, is that going to keep up with the rising costs of care over time? And for many of these products in the true group space right now, the answer is no, right? But um, traditional long-term care and even hybrid long-term care is able to offer pretty cost-efficient inflation protection right now. And the traditional options that will be uh in the group market coming up will offer pretty efficient access to inflation protection. Um, so I think just in general, as a theme, being able to marry individual and group products and really hone your expertise to know what may fit where is super important. And I think traditional long-term care has a great place in this market. Right now, it's just got to be applied carefully. Um, you know, you'll want to have a best practice of how am I actually going to do my best to pre-underwrite anybody I'm working with on an individual product to make sure I avoid those bad surprises, right? How can I do a really good pre-screen process? How can I get a hold of my carrier contacts and kind of set the stage ahead of time? Hey, I got a really nice executive carvo group here who's looking to do something with your product. How might I be able to pre-underwrite with as much certainty as possible so I can go back to the business owner and say, here's who is likely to be approved, and here is who is less likely or unlikely or will not be approved, right? I think you have to do a lot of extra work to ensure transparency of process there, but it is still absolutely doable. There are folks in our network who are doing traditional long-term care uh executive carve outs right now. And many of the existing individual carriers are trying to retrofit their product to the worksite market or building um new versions of their product with the work site market in mind. It's all about kind of knowing the process and being able to do your extra homework there, but it is doable and there's a great space for it. And that doesn't have to just be traditional long-term care, but traditional offers the highest amount of those benefits that true group plans don't offer right now with regard to tax deductibility and partnership, which you can't find anywhere else. Um, but individual

10-Pay Options & Employer-Funded Plan Design

SPEAKER_01 13:10

products also for employer-funded cases offer other advantages like a 10 pay, right? Uh, when we're talking employer funding, I don't get this reservation a lot, but sometimes we hear, man, I got to pay this premium for as long as my employees working for my company, right? I've got some young folks, that's a long time to be on the hook paying premiums for. If they can pay it up in 10 years, that might be a more amenable solution for those business owners out there who are considering something like this. So it's all about just kind of seeing a high-level view of the group market, a high-level view of the individual market, and understanding where you can meet the need of whoever you're in front of and making sure that you ask good questions to be able to meet that, right? And and to know what fits best. Anyone have anything they want to comment on? Does anybody have any experience doing an executive carve out or some sort of employer-funded plan or individual long-term care for business owners that wants to share a bit of their experience? Or does anybody have any questions on that first piece? Alright. Well, um, if you have a case, I would love to hear about it. If you've ever done one, I would love to hear about it because I think there's tons of merit there. Um but another aspect to this is

Group-Level Underwriting: When Carriers Decline to Quote

SPEAKER_01 15:00

that just because true group carriers offer guaranteed issue underwriting. And if you want this coverage, you got it. If we're able to produce a group offer for you, that doesn't mean that these group carriers don't have standards of who they will or won't accept at the group level, right? Um, oftentimes, I wouldn't say oftentimes, but there are times where we'll have a really nice, really exciting group opportunity, and we'll bring it to a carrier and they'll say, sorry, DTQ, we we declined to quote this case. And there's, you know, a host of reasons why that could be. Uh, I would say in the more rare cases, maybe there's a vocation. Um, you know, this group's occupation is something that the carrier won't touch. Um, and that's really going to differ carrier to carrier. Um, but you know, anything that may be particularly dangerous, or we have um, you know, our company has had, I've heard this, our company has a bad history with dentists on this specific product. And so we're not gonna quote this. And it really it really gets you thinking, right? Like uh it's just fun to think about, like what could their problem historically with dentists be? Um, but then you kind of learn more of their reasoning and it makes sense, right? And we just have to move on. Um, but I think

Association Groups & Carrier Appetite Variations

SPEAKER_01 16:40

where you have those kinds of groups, and the most popular or most common thing we run into are associations or non-employer groups. Carriers tend to be, I would say, um, quite sensitive to groups that do not have a common employer-employee sort of affinity or relationship, right? Uh, they have very specific rules about which associations they will take or if they will take them at all. Some choose to stay away from pretty much any association opportunity you bring to them. Some will say, well, I'll only take associations where membership is based on sharing the same profession or vocation. Okay, so I'm not going to take the national bicycle enthusiasts and so association, but I will take a bar association. I will take um, you know, a dental or medical association of some sort, right? Because I know all of these people are sharing that same profession. Membership is based on being an actively at work member uh, you know, of this vocation. But there are all sorts of other associations out there that may not fit that mold that would still be a great fit for carriers. Um, yeah, difficulties of potential state filings. How much time do we have, Wendy? Honestly. Um, some group carriers, you may get yourself in a situation where uh you start with three prospective carriers that you just from what you know from the group might be a good fit, but then you just find out, oh, due to one reason or process or another, we just can't do associations in this state, even though we have a product in this state, right? Um, so the process is a little bit different there

PEOs: The Most Polarizing Group Type

SPEAKER_01 18:50

with individual products. You know, there are carriers who actively offer a 5% common association discount. Like Mutual of Omaha has been doing it for years and years and years. NGL's product has a 5% association discount, and NGL's product actually um is one of the most receptive to work site that we've seen. Um, do you have experience working with PEOs, positives and negatives? We have experience working with them. Um, I think that is another great um example of a type of group that some carriers are like, oh, delicious. I could not get enough of PEOs. I I want to work with as many PEOs as possible, and some are quite the opposite. We will not work with a PEO under any circumstances. And I don't get very good answers outside of that's just not the business we want to go for. So it's a very polarizing type of group, but I know some carriers want to go after that business because it's an opportunity to access a really large pool of actively at work employees and large groups of employers, right? Um, so I would say your mileage may vary. It's all gonna depend on the size and the state that the opportunity is housed in. And sometimes what side of the bed the carrier got out of in the morning, to be quite honest with you. You know, uh, whenever you submit a proposal to a carrier, they're quoting and underwriting that case at the same time, right? So everything is going to kind of be individual consideration at the group level, but there are ways through. And because PEOs have access to so many different employers and they're kind of pooling together to be able to access benefits, that's why some carriers have that appetite because they see the potential to offer a number of different products and really build an affinity with that PEO, right? So it's an opportunity for them to scale. Um, but yeah, I I can't tell you why some don't like it. Uh, all I can say is that there are some that do, some that don't. Um but in these sort of um, you know, non-traditional large groups, you may feel like you have a wonderful case sitting right here in your lap. And when you take it to carriers, uh you don't get the answer you're expecting. So just marketing from the top down, communicating from the top down, and kind of getting an endorsement to be that, you know, that vendor or that trusted expert of an individual solution and utilizing a common association.

Individual Products as the Association Strategy

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Discount and being that person can be a very lucrative opportunity for you. It can be um a top referral source for you of qualified leads, right? Um I think there's far more opportunity for penetration with true group products if you have the access and um you know the the marketing plan and the buy-in from the association themselves to be involved in that communication and awareness spreading process. You can potentially achieve greater penetration with group products, but you're not always going to get that um you know show of support from the carrier. So Gretchen, is this something you've ever thought about? I know this this whole practice and theory is very new to us at Buddy. As we work with more associations, we get more yeses, we get more uh maybes, we get more no's. But um, have you ever thought about uh individual planning as it relates to groups of this kind?

SPEAKER_03 23:12

Uh that is an excellent question. And I know that we've we've you know we've had some um partners uh you know ask about that. We just yeah, I I don't have enough experience in that piece of it to really want to, you know, dive into what my thoughts are. I just think um just in general, it's just as a it's just another it's another viable option. So you you never want to take any option, whatever you're marketing um as far as your practice. You don't want to take any option that that could be um you know a good solution for for for a group, you never want to take that off the table for sure.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Yeah, and and one thing I think we've both run into as we've been in those kinds of conversations too, that have come to mind is just um with True Group products, we treat associations in just non-traditional large affinity groups. We treat them as long-term projects, right? Multiple enrollments, months and months and months of planning, strategically being there in person or arming those who will be there in person to be able to spread the word. There's a lot of work and a lot of time and and forward thinking that goes into those. I think with individual products, it's quadruple it. I I don't know, it's it's a lot more of a long-term project because that's more of just an endorsement of you as an individual, and you've got to individually prove out every single one of those cases in order to really continue to make headway. And and you may need to add more resources to your team to be able to um actually handle the demand if you get good demand for sure. Um, so I I think even when we're talking about traditional hybrid individual products right now, just because of the nature of the market, and if you hear me on the Tuesday study group, you know I ramble about this a lot. There are more solutions than ever to accommodate more people than ever. We've got traditional

Gap Fill: The Expanded Individual LTC Product Landscape

SPEAKER_01 25:30

and hybrid, of course, I'm talking about them most of all, but we've also got annuity long-term care products that are absolutely taking off, able to accommodate um folks in a higher upper age range, right? Being able to accommodate the repurposing of existing annuities that maybe um, you know, don't need to meet their goal that they're designed for now, and uh and a repurposing for long-term care benefit may be a great fit. We've got short-term care options in many states where it's eligible. We've got guaranteed issue coverage when you think about the Equitrust Bridge uh annuity product um that really help make that process easy if you've got somebody who's financially well qualified. Uh, it allows you to fit into a lot more gaps. We've got the true freedom product, not technically insurance, but being able to buy up home care hours in bulk, um, all ages, all states, right? We have a lot of gap fill in the individual long-term care market today. And if this study group was happening, you know, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, we wouldn't be able to say that, right? The group market would look different, but the individual market looks so different compared to 10, 15 years ago that we've got a lot more gap fill than ever. And of course, when we put the two products types together, true group products and individual products, that's where the magic happens, right? As Gretchen said, you don't want to leave an option off the table that somebody else could easily offer just because you didn't think to offer it. Now, am I saying shoehorn individual solutions into every conversation? No, but I

True Group as the Starter Plan — and the Education Strategy

SPEAKER_01 27:20

I cover, you know, a modicum of this conversation with every group I meet with, right? These true group plans are the far and away the easiest, most affordable way to get started in long-term care planning, but always with the idea in mind and the education we bring to the employees, that as income allows, we should be building on this starter plan if we can, right? It's about getting people into long-term care planning earlier and educating them about how they can continue the journey, right? The earlier you get somebody involved in a way that's as easy as using true true group products, um, the more you will avoid those situations down the road where, okay, this is the first time I've raised my hand on long-term care planning. And unfortunately, I'm health not qualified, or I'm financially not qualified for the options that are guaranteed issue or extremely simplified issue, right? These work together to really um give the full spectrum of long-term care planning. And at the end of the day, when you're educating, you don't want to just stick to the plan you're offering. You want to educate people on long-term care planning as a whole, selfishly and unselfishly, right? You want people to be um as set up as they can possibly be for extended care if it happens, regardless. But selfishly, you know, somebody you help with, you know, a true group long-term care plan could be an individual client down the road. If you do a good enough job with your education and uh, you know, affinity with the group you're working with. So there are a lot of reasons to let these products work together, even if you're starting with one.

SPEAKER_03 29:14

Yeah, and Jason, you you make a good point. Um the one of the, and I don't I don't even want to call it a negative, but one of the the just basic facts about the group product is a lot of people will um will start out, like you said, with with what we call a starter plan. So so you have to part of the process is you have to continue you have to you have to educate them on the fact that it's it's it's not gonna cover everything, but you need to do it in a way that doesn't scare them into, well, then I'm not just I'm just not gonna do anything. You know, so so there's that piece of it, but then also continuing to um to get in front of them and stay in front of them so that yeah, they may they may buy up if they can't if they have the opportunity later in the process, or you know, they may turn to an individual plan, right like Paul um is offers. So so yeah, so we need to just continue to educate the public about what it is that they're getting in the group plan, um, you know, what that cost of care number is in their area, and and and that, but not to be afraid of that gap because there are other solutions to yeah, and I'm sure that's something you all know, right?

SPEAKER_01 30:45

I mean, we we are not afraid to represent products that we would characterize as a starter plan, right? Because again, it's about how can you get people started on that journey

Transparency, Trust & the Long-Term Client Relationship

SPEAKER_01 31:00

as quickly as possible because there is a timer. Uh that timer is different for everyone, but there is a timer, right? So the earlier we can reach people, and even if they don't buy something in the enrollment, make them aware for the first time. You can't imagine how many people you will touch in this industry for the first time and introduce to long-term care planning for the first time, whether they buy something or not. Right. And in cases where their employer funds them a plan, great. They just got started with something, they they have coverage and they didn't need to climb that mountain that we see on the individual side to be sometimes six to 18 months from the time somebody raises their hand to the time they actually start with a plan for long-term care. You just skip that line, right? Um, so that's a that's a head start uh for for everybody involved at the end of the day. So um don't count that out. Make that part of your education when you're speaking to groups. It it shows transparency and it shows that you know what you're talking about when you characterize these as a starter plan, right? Because if they know anything about long-term care, they'll see right through you if you try to um characterize some of these plans as the end-all be-all for your long-term care planning, right? Um, one look at a plan without inflation protection, and they'll be able to poke holes in anything you do. It's okay to point out where these plans are not strong because you educate people on how to complement. You help people complement those plans, right? So I think when you come at it with that level of transparency, you start to get trust. And people understand the plans for what they are and they become more excited about that fact that they kind of get to help their employees build this knowledge over time. And at the end of the day, if they put a plan together, it's not just the employees that you get access to for the first time, but it's new hires, right? If you're working with companies that are constantly growing and constantly hiring more people, those are new folks to be able to educate. Those are new plans coming through the door and and you know, new commissions coming through the door for your business. Um, and the longer and tighter you hold those relationships, um, it just helps so many different areas of your business. So don't be afraid of starter plans. And if you have uh, you know, a decision maker, a business owner that you're talking to that that kind of identifies that right away and says, this is a starter plan, this is not enough. I wanted to do more for my employees. Well, you may have a case where you can layer a group and individual product employer funded in the same case. And that's just a that's a winner, right? I mean, they're all winners, but um, if somebody is telling you that it's not enough, explore what more they can do and just keep putting options in front of them until something works. If you have that trust, if you're able to establish that trust early on, you can get there.

SPEAKER_03 34:19

Uh Jason, real quick, did you see Clay's question about PEOs? Oh yeah, I want to make sure. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

Yeah, PEOs are either the golden child or the um or the red-headed stepchild, I will say. That's the easiest way to characterize them. Um depends on what day of the week and how how nicely you ask, and sometimes it doesn't even depend there. But there are carriers that will look at them. Uh Chubb is one that I know will look at them. Um, but they're they're not as common. I would say if you have a PEO opportunity, it's a great one to think about. Um, you know, run and by us, and and we can kind of help you with the um with the fact-finding with the carriers in the RFP process because there are some that are very, very open to it. It's either their favorite case or least favorite. Anyone have any questions, comments, thoughts? Uh, what percentage of group cases are offered off of January 1? So you mean like a January 1st start date? Like uh an employer is saying, well, this looks great, but I'd rather wait and start the first of the year?

SPEAKER_02 35:30

Um, no, I'm saying that a lot of times they're offered on January 1st when other benefits are offered, the medical and so forth and so on. So I know it's not the greatest time to do that because you're kind of fall in with the other benefits and don't get the attention that you would do if it was off

Enrollment Timing: Off-Cycle vs. January 1

SPEAKER_02 35:50

anniversary. But I was just asking how many uh group plans are you know offered on a 7-1 different type day?

SPEAKER_01 35:59

Um, so this is something that we commonly for a first-time enrollment will really push for an off-cycle enrollment because the first time you're learning about long-term care uh really does, in our mind, need that dedicated runway for education and to kind of stand on its own and not compete with other benefits. But all carriers have um the ability and and we generally exercise the function to say, for the first time we enroll, that first special enrollment period, we'll do it off-cycle. And most will flip to January one or flip to the same annual enrollment period as other benefits. So we have that um customization ability to go off-cycle for the first, which is generally a much better experience, and then we put it in line with all the other benefits, and then new hires themselves have a separate process as well that generally is a choice of a group. So you can give somebody 30, 60, 90 days from when they're first hired, or um, you know, you can set it to like flip to that next year. So it's very customizable, but that's generally what we'll recommend. Let's go off-cycle the first time and then get it in line with everything else if you feel that's appropriate.

SPEAKER_00 37:22

Yeah, some carriers will let you request on the proposal too, so you can ask for that as part of your proposal. So they'll kind of guarantee you those guaranteed issue periods up front.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

How long have you been hiding in here? I just got here. Oh thank you. Of course. So we've talked through a lot, Mark. We've talked through um individual products as good fits for small groups that you know there's an insistence on tax deductibility. We've talked about some of the difficulties in the process of working with groups um using individual products, but we've talked about how much gap fill and customization there also is. We've talked about working with non-traditional sorts of groups and how, you know, group long-term care carriers may offer guaranteed issue underwriting, but their underwriting at the group level definitely still has standards. Uh, and individual products could be your only route or your best route to work with really large groups. Um let's read what Wendy wrote. Group long-term care is so fundamentally different today, simpler, more predictable, built for as few as three employees, different and needs a fresh lens. What people understand today as opposed to the past. There's a mind shift, yes. Uh not about employees, not it's about families. Totally agree. Uh, when someone enrolls in group hybrid, they're usually not thinking I might need care someday. Small starter plan. Yeah, I agree. The education is a lot about family. And we have several slides where we speak about family as one of the key pieces to long-term care planning. And and the education is everything, right?

SPEAKER_04 39:13

Yeah. And I gotta add in, I mean, if you any of you and all of you that have been in the buddy system, and you can read what Gretchen and her team has put in there on the education and marketing front. But it is to me, it's just outstanding. And I I am always taken aback by that delivery because what I just wrote is what Gretchen has been talking about for the four years that I've been at Buddy. I mean, it's extraordinary. And what Jason and Mark put together um is really, I mean, I'm in group every day, all day long. Um, not to the extent that Jason and Mark are, but um I certainly have my hands full in it. And it is a different conversation. Most of us on this call have been on the individual side for decades, as may. And it is a different conversation. You have to reframe it differently. And the starter plan that we talk about, that Gretchen just talked about, having that foot in that door, that's something. And you've got these employees that are 25, 26 years old. If you talk to them about long-term care insurance 10 years ago, they'd go, nope, don't need it. No. It's different today because all of us know that our their parents, their loved ones, it could be a sibling that needs care. You still have almost 39% of people in this country that are needing care, that are younger than me, and I'm 70, that are 65 and under. So those little 26, 36-year-olds, 40-year-olds are going, holy cow, if I can get something, just something to protect my family, sign me up. What do I do? And we see it every day, all day long.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

100%. And that's the number one thing that group and individual products can really agree on is it's about um getting people educated about how to plan for long-term care, why to plan for long-term care, and how it's going to help your family beyond yourself if you need extended care, right? I mean, that's the goal. And with these two product types working side by side, the amount and different methods of access are unparalleled today. You know, I really believe that this is the opportunity to reach more people than ever to talk about these things and to build new relationships. And um, really at the end of the day, for your business, self selfishly, right? We're we're all in a business here to build your business and create multiple different types of revenue streams and referral partner relationships. So um I think if you're not talking both, uh, as I said in the beginning, we have a lot of folks who are mostly individual and trying to learn group. We have a lot of benefit primary folks who are trying to learn long-term care in general. Uh, I think the more you start to come to the middle, and you're doing a great job of that by being on this study group, the more people you're gonna reach, the more people you're gonna help, and um, the better off you'll be in your business in the long run. I firmly believe that. Um, so we're we're like right about at time. But Mark, is there anything

Final Thoughts: The Markets Are Learning From Each Other

SPEAKER_01 42:35

you want to add to what we're going through today?

SPEAKER_00 42:38

No, I think I think you you summed it up really well. The key for me is to realize that we're using the same approach, education, individual consultation. We're just getting this opportunity to have a mass market audience for it. And I am seeing a lot of new carriers with individual products trying to equip them for multi-life, I'll call it, right? So for worksite and for groups. So I expect to see more to come here. So I think it's a lot through the good work of you folks here in this in this room. Like you're bringing awareness to it, you're trying to find opportunities, that market is growing, and the carriers go where the growth is. So um, yeah, it's just kind of a mindset and a process uh that you set up. The product itself, the client doesn't care as long as it delivers them the best value and gets them the long-term care benefits. You know, the contracts are written very similar, or if not identically to each other. So it really just comes down to you know being able to get more people the coverage. That's what is all of our goal in this room.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

Yeah. The reason it feels like we're like burn and rubber going from meeting to meeting lately is because you guys are doing a great job. You're taking it and running with it, and you're you're getting the ear of the people that matter, right? And that's the that is like the one thing to get started in group long term care is just get the word out and get somebody's ear and and and get the trust. And bring in folks who can help because it's you know very hard to do this alone. Um, but you're not alone. That's the best part of it. So uh hope you guys enjoyed that. You know, a lot of uh theory crafting in real time, I guess you could say, um, going through how this works together. But I just think as the industries, um, you know, both sides of this market continue to learn from each other, we'll eventually see individual products with unrecognizably speedy processes, and we'll see group products with some of the more um slick product innovations, like the ability to be tax deductible in certain cases, you know, separately identifiable premiums, uh and and all the things we love from the individual space as these markets continue to get more involved with each other. And all we can do is kind of keep that ball rolling and uh we'll be laughing thinking about where we are today in five years, right? If we all just keep kind of working together towards that. So uh appreciate y'all being here for this. Uh happy to help with any questions that you guys have. But uh until next week, be well and we'll talk to you soon. Thanks everyone.

SPEAKER_03 45:19

Bye.