How to Deal with Declines and Save Cases

A decline doesn't have to end the conversation or the case. Learn how experienced LTCi specialists navigate underwriting setbacks, manage client emotions, and find the right pivot to keep long-term care planning on track.

When a client gets declined for long-term care insurance, the risk isn't just losing the case, it's losing the client's confidence in the process entirely. In this episode of the Buddy Study Podcast, host Jason Dutra leads a practitioner-focused discussion on the full lifecycle of managing declines: from early field underwriting and expectation setting, to the emotional moment of decline, to advocating for clients and identifying the right pivot product.

This is a boots-on-the-ground conversation featuring real case stories from working specialists, including examples involving couples, partial declines, undisclosed health history, medical record errors, and unexpected carrier decisions.

We explore:

• Why field underwriting and pre-qualification are your first line of defense against a difficult decline
• How to set client expectations before the application so a decline doesn't feel like a surprise
• The emotional psychology of declines and why clients sometimes react irrationally, including the "nuclear option" in couples cases
• How to reframe the carrier's decision so clients don't feel personally rejected by their health
• Why anchoring clients to their original "why" is the key to keeping them engaged after a setback
• Real case examples: Nationwide to Securian pivots, Global Atlantic to Equitrust, and creative hybrid product solutions
• How to be a genuine advocate, fighting carrier decisions, reviewing decline letters, and knowing carrier underwriting sweet spots

This episode is designed to help advisors:

• Handle underwriting declines with confidence and a clear process
• Keep clients engaged and solution-focused after a setback
• Identify pivot products and carrier alternatives for difficult health profiles
• Build the kind of trusted advisor relationship that makes clients want to stay in the process

CHAPTER MARKERS

0:00 Welcome & Episode Overview

2:36 Field Underwriting: Your First Line of Defense

4:48 Setting Expectations Before the Application

8:10 The Psychology of Declines: Why Clients React Emotionally

11:03 Reframing the Carrier's Decision for Clients

13:02 Anchoring Clients Back to Their "Why"

17:11 Preparing Clients for Pivot Options Up Front

18:15 Understanding Decline Reasons and the Appeal Process

20:26 Case Stories: Real Declines and Successful Pivots

32:15 Knowing Your Carrier Underwriting Sweet Spots

38:04 Being an Advocate: Fighting for Your Clients

40:14 Advisor Takeaways & Closing Thoughts

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🔎 About Buddy Study Podcast

The Buddy Study Podcast helps insurance professionals and financial planners master Long-Term Care Insurance through case studies, expert interviews, and carrier product updates. Our goal is to help advisors become more confident, efficient, and knowledgeable when helping clients plan for long-term care.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey everyone, welcome to another edition of the Buddy Study Group. And today we are going to cover a topic that we covered at some point last year. And I was constantly thinking back to how much I enjoyed the session. And uh it's a pretty important topic if you are a long-term care specialist or have aspirations of being a long-term care specialist, and that is the psychology of declines, uh, dealing with declines, how to pivot when it comes to long-term care. I think if you ask anybody who is um, you know, not normally involved in long-term care day-to-day, and you ask them what do you fear most about getting into long-term care? Underwriting is probably the number one. Um, but because this is the industry we're in and we have to uh deal with it as it is, there are definitely some finer points that I notice really help you to overcome situations where you have a decline on your hands. So we're gonna kind of talk about those best practices and really under the context most of all of how to save cases. Um, because declines, if you're not prepared or you're unfamiliar with how to handle, excuse me, handle declines and your field underwriting in general, um, there can certainly be some messy outcomes that leave the client uh, I would say, unwilling to actually move forward with the solution. So I think from start to finish, there's little things in every single step of the sales process that you can do to overcome declines. Um, and many come before you even get the case into underwriting. So um that's kind of the little outline. And I would really love to hear from you guys because you all are the boots on the ground specialist doing this with clients every single day. Um, you're you're going through um multiple different cases that are in underwriting. And um I would say if you're going to do more than just a little bit of long-term care business, you're going to deal with declens uh from time to time. So why don't we get into it? Um I think the first place to really start is that your ability to deal with declines is only as good as your ability to communicate, expectation set, and field underwrite. I think those three, good afternoon, Chris. I think those three things are the most important uh tools to have as far as being good at dealing with the clients. So, number one, I think field underwriting is the most important of those three. So you have to um really do a good job of understanding the client's full health picture, really as early on in the process as possible. Uh, I think pre-qualification in many cases comes right after hello for many specialists. I think that's a good approach. Um, because the last thing you want to do is delay that process any further or far enough that you start getting into options and you realize that you're talking about an option that your client can't possibly access due to health reasons, right? You don't want to, I I love uh Linda Thalheimer's analogy for this. You don't want to show the client a wedding dress and have them look at the price tag and realize that they can't afford it, right? You can't you can't have them unsee that dress, right? If they lay eyes on the perfect wedding dress and it's out of their reach, that is like the perfect recipe for someone to become disgruntled, right? Same thing with uh long-term care planning or really any insurance planning. If you show somebody an option, they really like it and they find out their help won't allow them to buy it. Um, that's a recipe for uh a case that's always going to have this lingering kind of stink of bad sentiment around it, right? Um, so you want to avoid that. And the easiest way to do that is to set up why you're field underwriting and field underwrite them as soon as you possibly can. Um, and you can feel free to borrow that language as to why it's important to field underwrite, right? I I don't want to get into talking about options without knowing what you can actually purchase. And beyond just being able to pay the premium, your health has to buy you this plan as well. So the sooner we are able to get a picture of your health information, the sooner I can narrow things down to what we can actually look at and we avoid bad surprises, right? And I think directly following that should be some sort of discussion along the lines of um, you know, when I receive your health information, once I have that full picture, um we will send that to underwriters. And even if we have a shot at a case given our health information, or even if we look like a good candidate given our health information for a product, we could still go through underwriting, and underwriting may still say thanks, but no thanks, right? They may still decline us for one reason or another. Uh, I think commonly this happens when people omit something from their health picture that is particularly important to the carrier. I think that happens quite a bit the more cases you do. Um, so it's important to kind of give as full of a picture as possible because it's a really bad experience for everyone involved when we go and apply to a carrier and they turn around with a decline, right? So I think once that's framed for the client, um, they start to get a better understanding of number one, why they're doing this, why they're doing it so early in the conversation, and what are the possible outcomes from this journey we're about to go on in long-term care planning, right? Um, so I think that proactivity shows the client you're going to do your homework. Um, so I think it's also important to mention that I'm going to look at a number of options for you, not just to show you uh a taste of what may be a good fit for you out on the market, but also again, if we do come back with a decline, we have multiple different avenues that we can use to pivot. And you're actually seeing carriers in the way they're building um their sort of roster of products setting up for that and and trying to save cases themselves. So nationwide releases care matters annuity in the past six or so months, I would say. And immediately there's talk about well, if we're declined for Care Matters, we can follow up with uh a Care Matters annuity offer because we're targeting 95% acceptance, something along those lines. So the carriers also kind of got this in mind and trying to save cases and trying to provide people pivots by having a wide array of products available for all shapes and sizes. Um, but I think just setting that expectation and having that conversation up front is so, so important. You don't want to zap somebody with a bad surprise. And I think when we get into the psychology of declines in long-term care, I know we talked about this the last time we had this session, but it is very emotional for a client who is declined. It's almost, you can understand why they may feel this way. Um, but it's not always based in rationality. Maybe the emotions uh themselves are not, but also just what they decide to do next with those emotions that they're feeling. And I think the most common one that people run into is a client is the client, and all of a sudden I just want to throw the whole process out the window. Even if you have, you know, sort of prepped them as good as you can for this discussion. Uh, you never know how a client's gonna feel or act after they receive a decline. So that's always important to know the client's gonna be emotional when they receive a decline. We've gone all the way down this road. I really like this option. I understand it because we've spent so much time focusing on it, and now I can't have it. I can't possibly have it, right? I mean, there may be avenues as far as uh appeals in underwriting that you can go through, but in most cases the client just believes that they are shut out and not wanted, right? If they don't want me, fine. And this is, I think, uh particularly uh important thing to think about when you're dealing with couples. I have seen cases myself personally, I'm sure you have too, where one spouse is declined for a product and you know, they say, Come on, honey, if they don't want me, they're not gonna get either of us. And just withdraw uh coverage for an approved healthy spouse who's going to get coverage in place, right? I I've seen that. Um, it's just like the nuclear option, right? But that's that's kind of what happens when you know you're you're at that level of disappointed and feeling rejected, right? People have issues with rejection, maybe less so as salespeople, but um clients tend to feel that rejection quite a bit. And it's important that we help the client come back to some sort of equilibrium emotionally, right? I think a little empathy never hurt in almost anything you can do. And I would say, yeah, you know, this sucks. I totally understand how you're feeling right now. You know, being rejected for something we've taken a lot of time and several meetings kind of planning toward, and uh the one person who controls our ability or the one entity who controls our ability to get access to this said not based on our health. So that probably has us feeling pretty bad about ourselves. But what I try to do to frame this, and I've used this a lot in situations where I've had uh declines, it's important to kind of give a little perspective to the client. Listen, a clean bill of health from your doctor does not constitute, it's not the same thing as a clean bill of health from a profit-seeking insurance company who's looking at your health information and trying to determine if you are an acceptable risk to the machine they have built, right? It's important to understand that those two things are completely different. Um, you know, I would probably trust the clean bill of health from your doctor, right? Uh, as uh I'm I'm doing what I need to do at the end of the day um for my health, but um it's totally different when you have spreadsheets, underwriting guides, and underwriters reviewing your medical records and saying, hey, are we uh likely to take a profit or a loss on this person, right? Or somewhere in between. Um, so I think that really helps uh, you know, say this is kind of a carrier thing. Don't feel down on yourself about your health uh just because a carrier said no in this case. Um, but it's also important to remind them why did we even start doing this in the first place? Why did you first sit down with me on Zoom or across the table from me in my office and start this conversation? Nobody necessarily forced you to come in and have this conversation, uh, but we did and we went further down the line in the process. And I think if um, you know, pre-qualification should be right up front uh in the discussion, I also think finding out the client's why for even talking to you about long-term care planning is almost just as important. Um, and it really comes into play in this specific situation, right? Because when something discourages the client and they feel like they want to abandon the process altogether, you can really pull them back to that why. And I really have to shout out Miss Rhonda Bills for that because um I think that's been one of the most sage pieces of advice that she's given across tons of study groups she's done for us. Um but remember, we started doing this because you don't want your family to have to be the hands-on caregiver for you in your older age, or if something happens and you need care, right? This is just as much about the rest of your family. So if we were to abandon the process, we would kind of almost guarantee that we are not going to seal up that need or seal up that kind of lingering thought in the back of our minds. We won't reach that peace of mind. Of course, there's planning that you can do that doesn't involve insurance, right? Um, but for many, it's a kind of an essential funding mechanism to make sure that we've got something in place and can fund professional care. You know, you want to receive care in your home. That's one of the big objectives we talked about as to what we want to do with long-term care planning and why. Um we have not solved that yet outside of maybe paying out of pocket for our care. And based on whatever financial reviews you may have done, it's not going to be a hundred percent effective for people in all cases, right? Uh, generally only for the most wealthy. So we still need to check that box in our financial plan and our peace of mind department. So um I understand that this rejection is really hard to take. I understand we had our hopes up about this um solution, but there are many more solutions out there, and I'll do whatever it takes to find you one. And at the end of the day, it will get you closer to your goal. But if we bow out now, uh, we won't be able to get there, right? So I think that's really important is kind of put put the client's head back in the game. And I also think um, you know, in the case of spouses that are applying together, one declined, one approved, that rings just as true, right? We talked about XYZ objectives, and you know, your spouse has been approved, that means they're that much closer to checking that box for themselves. Uh, I understand that, again, the rejection is tough, but pulling your spouse out of their progress toward that goal is counterintuitive to why we started this in the first place. Right. Now, there may be merit to switch to another product. Maybe you can get some really good leverage on a joint product that may be able to ensure both of them, right? Um, obviously we want to keep the approved coverage in place before we go looking at um other options, right? If we end up liking the pivot option, we can then um figure out what we have to do with the newly approved policy. Uh, but at the end of the day, I think, you know, because they're emotional, they they start to reason that it might be a good idea to work against their goals to kind of uh I don't know, stick it to the man, stick it to the carrier that said no. You said no, so we're saying no. You can't fire me, I quit. That kind of thing. I can totally understand that. So I think that's an important piece of this. Um, I think it's all in how you set up the conversation, though. You are less likely to get to really far down depths of this emotional reaction if they are prepped ahead of time and they understand this could make like this could very likely happen. We could end up with a decline. And getting them a little bit familiar with those, you know, option B, C, D, uh, backup almost seems derogatory, but pivot options, right? Uh, if we can't get into, you know, our option number one, here's what two, three, and four look like at a high level, and we'll go further down that road if we have to. Um, just letting them know you have a plan and letting them know the unexpecteds to expect is super important. So I think if you can navigate the front end of that conversation well, you're immediately going to have an easier time dealing with the moment of decline. And I think understanding where to pivot to next is really understanding the reasons for decline from option one, right? Generally, um clients will receive a letter regarding the reasons for their decline. Um, there are many carriers that won't outright give the agent the reason for decline. So sometimes you have to wait for that letter many times to come into the client and get the reasoning for decline so that you can understand, okay, how does this compare to the field underwriting I did up front? Right? Is this something new? If I pre-qualified with other carriers as my backup options, do I have anything revised to give to those pivot carriers to say, here's an even fuller picture of the health information? Would we still consider this client for your product? Right. I think that's super important to understand. And I think a dialogue with the client about the reason for decline, you would be surprised, or maybe you wouldn't, if you've been doing this for a long time, uh, how you might see a decline reason in a letter that is in no way, shape, or form involved with the client's health picture. Uh, I I've heard stories on this study group of the like, you know, um, you know, client had in his medical records that he shattered his clavicle playing football, but he had never played football in his entire life. I mean, it it's it's unbelievable how many um, you know, different stories I've heard around this. And remember, they're reading medical records. These could be sloppily written. A lot of doctors are so busy that they don't have time to take notes by hand anymore, so they're using text-to-speech to take their notes. And we know that's not 100% accurate, though it's getting better every day. There's tons of reasons why there could be errors in the medical records. So an appeal could be your option if you're in that situation, but many times you want to be prepared with as many solutions as possible. So I've been walking through this uh a bit. Let's take a look and see if we have something in the chat. Jesse Sloan said, shared something similar the other day. Don't spill the candy on the first appointment. Yep. Learn about them and their budget, prepare with options pre-underwriting. Yeah. I I try to do, you know, I would try to do as wide ranging of a pre-qualification as possible, especially if you have a case where you know the client's going to be borderline for a number of options, uh, especially the ones that they're most financially qualified for, right? The client's a really good candidate for traditional long-term care. I want to make sure I'm doing a lot of pre-qualification if their health is borderline because decline rates are no secret there, right? So just being prepared. On life, I usually quote it standard. Even if I think they qualify better, that's a really good piece of advice. This way I present $100 a month and it comes back at $55. I do share that they'll probably get better, but I like to go on as standard and they will get what they qualify for this way. You only have to sell it once. Totally agree. Um, beyond just being outright declined, being rated is uh also a tough conversation. You know, uh, especially in your example, $75 to $100 a month. It's a 25% increase on the premium you told them they'd be paying, right? If you quote them preferred and they come back standard. So I think that's a great addition to what we talked about to do on the front end is be conservative with how you quote um from an underwriting rate class. That you use uh so that you're not compounding bad surprises on each other, right? Uh one of the large carriers mismatched the health profile of my client, which was preferred with another client and declined her, had to go back and fight it with my rep. They finally figured out it was their mistake and issued the policy. Yeah. I mean, uh, if you know in your heart and soul that there's been a mistake, you have to fight that tooth and nail. I mean, be a bulldog about it because at the end of the day, you're just allowing the carrier to carry on with a mistake if you don't that hurts your client, right? I mean, that is truly what being a specialist is all about, is uh beyond being that consultant, it's being that advocate, right? Because um, it's going to be a lot more stressful and a lot more difficult. Uh, in some cases, not possible for the client to fight that battle for themselves. So you need to be able to take that on. You're generally going to have a better line to the carriers to communicate this issue. So that the advocacy is super important there. Um, anybody have any interesting case studies, case stories on um times where you may have either saved a decline or dealt with a decline and made a really good pivot that'll help us learn together and any products that you guys find um to be a really good home, not to say that send all your declines there, but a really good home for clients that have been declined. Equitrust Bridge is kind of our obvious, right? Guaranteed issue uh is is going to save almost any case. Again, a client needs to be financially qualified, right? If you can't make a single premium or uh facilitate a 1035 exchange into an Equitrust Bridge, uh, you may be out of luck with that solution. That's our obvious one, but what do you guys out there find to be those good pivot products?

SPEAKER_00 24:11

Jason, I was actually gonna bring up uh Equitrust. Um, as you know, I don't do a lot of personal business, but this is a family member, and uh she got declined from Global Atlantic on the annuity long-term care product because she had a COVID vaccine and it triggered like an autoimmune reaction. And she thought, okay, that's nothing. It was like a week and then it went away, not a big deal, right? Yep. Well, they treated that as an autoimmune disease. And they actually didn't tell us at Global Atlantic for two months what the reason for the decline was. Again, simplified issue products, you're not gonna get as much information. Anyway, we pivoted because uh Equitrust got released in her state, it wasn't available when we first applied for the Global Atlantic product. Sale through underwriting 310, you know, leverage for long-term care. So I do think it's really important though to like get the reason for the decline, fight that battle still, even though it's very frustrating, right? And to spend time doing that. And then um, again, knowing where you can pivot is really key.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

Yeah, like I said, it's better you fight that battle than the client. The client is going to get exhausted in the first attempt almost every time. Totally agree. anybody else have any? Yeah, Jason.

SPEAKER_03 25:27

I think I really shared this soul last year, but I have this exact scenario. The husband and wife applied, very fired up. The wife was declined 15 years ago due to injections she was receiving and all kinds of chiropractic work, but things looked like they improved. So I say, Hey, let's give it a shot. You're a no-brainer, and the opposite happened. She gets approved, he gets declined, and we're shocked. I'm blown away. I'm like, What? He's like, it's a miracle she got approved, and I didn't. I said, Yeah, let me do some digging. Did some digging and um found out some stuff he didn't fully disclose the nature of, which is classic what happens, right? His response uh was, well, since we both didn't get approved, we're just gonna pull away. Now keep in mind, he already has a small policy, she already has a small traditional LTC policies, and they really wanted a hybrid. And uh, so he was bailing on both. And I'm like, let me ask you a question. If this was good enough to get her additional care that you saw necessary and worthwhile before she was approved, why is it different now that she is approved? Let's let's take the bird in the hand we have, because by the way, look at the leverage we're getting her. She's gonna have, by the time she actually needs this, she could have nine extra money waiting for her, for goodness sakes, on a very small investment. I I can't just let you poo-poo that. Look at that in real black and white numbers for yourself. We can pivot and find something else, you know. And he had no interest in in anything for himself at the time. I said, Well, nationwide said you can reapply in three years. Do we want to wait three years? No, you're young and healthy now, you just had one issue. Let's see if we can fix it. Then he went on vacation, traveled around the world, seems like for a year, came back and I said, Hey, I've got a great solution for you that you will get approved. And and it's not Equitrust because it's not in Indiana. So here I am in Indiana without that backup, right? Right. But I put him in a Nexus New Heights 12. And I think if people have the means, that's a wonderful product because instead of a doubler, you have a hundred percent access to the cash. What's better than double? 100% of the money for cash triggered by two of six. So he looked at that and said, okay, instead of putting 71 grand in, let's put 150. And I said, Sounds like a plan, let's do it. So that's his backup now that we are able to maneuver him into.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

Yeah, and I I think you that that story covers a ton of bases, right? You know, saying that it it's a miracle that his wife was able to get coverage and he wasn't, but then kind of going the route of trying to pull all that out because of rejection seems like there was a lot more focus on I didn't than she did at the time, right? Sometimes sometimes you got to sleep on that and and really understand what you are about to do here because you've received a little bit of uh rejection in that case. And uh yeah, the the people who you know don't disclose uh they're not gonna go away. It it happens, it's just going to happen. Law of large numbers, you're going to run into those cases. And uh the most you can do is try to vacuum seal that off in the beginning of the conversation. Here's why it's important that you tell me everything. It's going to be a bad surprise, it's going to be a lot of sunk cost and time. Uh, they're going to find out eventually. Better to find out up front so we don't go down that road and waste all this time.

SPEAKER_03 29:39

Right. Because I told him, I said, I'm ticked off like you, and I'm going to go fight for you. I'm going to talk to my internal. I'm talking, I know some people at the carrier higher up. I'll run this up the flagpole as far as I can to try to get you approved. Here's what I'm proposing. I emailed my the story I was going to tell. And he says, actually, that wouldn't be a hundred percent accurate. I need to tell you more. And I was, he goes, Thank you so much for being willing to fight and take it as high as you can. But I don't want to put you in a bad position, Jeff. It actually, here's the full disclosure. And I went, okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

One way or another, they're gonna learn, right? And uh, you know, you already went down that road once, and and hearing that you were about to do it again really drove the point home about I need everything, right? It it sounds so I can imagine it sounds so invasive as a client. Like you sit them down, you're like, I need to know everything about your health. That is crazy, right? Um, if you're just somebody who doesn't understand this business, so you gotta give them the reasons why. Like, I've seen this too many times. I've run into this issue too many times, and this is what happens. And that probably doesn't sound like a good experience, right? Um, I can understand if you're uncomfortable, but you know, my practices keep everything completely confidential. They don't get a name, they don't tie this to you when we send them this information preliminarily. Obviously, when we formally apply, that's a different story, but the carrier keeps everything sealed. Uh, you know, even just acknowledging that sort of uh privacy alarm that goes off when you say that um can really go a long way. And then one other thing I want to touch on um that you said was previous declines. I think that's a big thing to ask in field underwriting as well. Have you tried going for something like this before? And were you declined? Um, because that right there is like on the game of guess who, you're flipping down like five or six different slats of carriers that are no longer available to you. And so again, you're not barking up the wrong tree when you're laying out some initial options that they might be a good candidate for. You've been declined, sorry. You know, this carrier is a no-go. Uh I think that was an important piece. So thank you for that. That that brought up a lot. Um, anybody else have any stories or thoughts or products that are um good homes? Yeah, Diane, go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 32:22

Hello there. Hi. Um, I had two cases approved in the last two weeks. And um, it was just common things that people don't think of. Um, I had one client applied with Nationwide back in January, and she didn't think it was important to tell me that she was scheduling carpal tunnel surgery for April because it's just a minor thing and it's not that big a deal, and it's just gonna be fixed. Well, she had to answer that on the medical questionnaire with nationwide, and nationwide said they didn't decline it. They said we're gonna postpone it until after the surgery and then get back with us. Turns out she didn't need the surgery in April, she just needed a cortisone shot. And so I took the decline or the postpone words from nationwide, and I took the um medical information from her doctor that she sent me without her name on it, and I sent it to all the other carriers and I said, Would you consider this? And turns out she got approved by Securian. Nationwide would not have approved her even after the cortisone shot if they would have waited six more months. And then I had another one, same thing. These are young women, 52, 53 years old. She didn't think to tell me that she had a screw in her wrist from a fall that she had when she was 40. Well, nationwide doesn't work with hardware. So I said, we're gonna find another company that's gonna help you. And uh, she did apply and get approved from Securion. So, same thing. Um, she I have a boatload of texts from her. She's like, I'm blacklisted, I'll be declined forever, I'll never be able to get anything. She was she was frantic to get this and she got approved. Um, but it's not that they're trying to not tell you stuff, it's just they don't think it's important when they're talking to you, and you really got. I'm gonna use both of those stories every time I talk to somebody because I even the little thing, if this is something that happened, we need to be able to know about it, even if it's so small that you, you know, you you you you broke your thumb when you were 10. I want to know about it. Um, just so that we're not wasting your time looking in the wrong companies.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

Right. Yeah, there's so much at stake in just wasted time, right? I think that's uh, you know, I think most people, and this is I think more and more true as the days go on, is that we are afraid of wasting time. And if you can just, you know, say, I'm doing this to avoid wasted time, I think people will understand it. Right. And it's a lot of wasted time. Um, so a couple of really good takeaways there. I think those situations being a nationwide pivot to Securian is um really interesting. Uh and just the perspective of being able to go from a life hybrid product to a life hybrid product and not having to go into further down drawers, not that those aren't good solutions, right? It's but it's very in line with what the client, you know, really gravitated toward in the first place. It's as almost as close as possible to the thing they picked off the shelf and said, I want that, right? And I think from both of your stories, what that kind of reminds me of is like this is one of the areas where you can really set yourself apart as a long-term care specialist is being really good at this piece, underwriting, and knowing which carrier is a good home for anything a client could be dealing with or going through. Underwriting sweet spots, right? Um, I think that makes a huge difference in the effectiveness of a long-term care specialist. And the best part about it is one of the really only effective ways to learn at that and get better at that is just writing cases and seeing what happens as a result of the case, looking back on it and learning. And like you said, Diane, you now have anecdotes to go back and reinforce your position at the beginning with every new client to say this is going to be detail-oriented. I understand that this may feel uh really invasive, you know, getting to know you this much from a health standpoint. I I don't think anybody has probably asked you to this level, you know, like outside of your doctor, right? But this is exactly why, because I've seen it before. I've seen it in situations that seem so innocuous or happened so long ago, but they actually look at those things and they make decisions based on that information, right? Um, it's something so small, you know, like a screw in your hand. Um, you know, with one carrier, maybe a big issue. With another carrier, not a big deal, right? So it's important that you don't think you're blacklisted. Um, you're probably gonna set off the airport metal detector every single time, but you're not blacklisted from getting a long-term care solution, right? So it's just important to know that we have options. And um, you know, if every carrier did their underwriting exactly the same, all of the other elements of the products would not have the ability to be different. If underwriting was streamlined, the products would generally have to be pretty darn streamlined as well. They would all look very similar to each other. That's really the reason. So we will work to find you a home. And I think, you know, when I because Diane, we meet pretty regularly. And uh I get a lot of these stories from you on cases that you're working on when we talk through them. And in many cases, you do such a good job of um, you know, helping the client kind of establish the need, why they're doing this and going over the product that when you have clients in this situation, they are more sad that like they're not going through necessarily as much of the emotional rejection, but it's like I'm sad I can't get the solution. Will I be able to get another one? So is there anything that you do that kind of helps inspire that? Or do you just happen to have really good luck in meeting with people who are dead set on getting a solution?

SPEAKER_04 38:54

No, I have plenty of bad luck. But um, but I think just holding on to the stories and being able to use them just makes it that much better for the next person. And I mean, when I get done work, I mean, I'm never done working with these people, but when we get done getting their policy in place, they're like my sisters and brothers and cousins and stuff. And if they get declined, they're like, oh Diane, I'm so sorry. I really wanted to buy something from you. Like it's not about me. Let's get you taken care of, you know, I'll be I'll be fine. But but I I it's like the relationship is that strong by the time we get to there because we've had so many conversations to get to the point of what is it that they want and how are we gonna get it?

SPEAKER_01 39:38

Yeah. So I think that's another piece to navigating this like a pro, is like if you can show the client that you're focused on them, you know, you're doing it for them and you're trying to pick out what is perfect for them, and they can feel that. Um, they can feel that advocacy, they're going to want to do the thing for themselves that they know is the right thing because you have done such a good job of helping them understand and find their fit.

SPEAKER_04 40:13

Yeah. And we did it together. Like every email that I use with my clients always uses we and our. We're going to do it this way. And when we get a response from the insurance company, this is how we're going to handle it. It's never you, you, you, or me, me, me. It's always us.

SPEAKER_01 40:30

Yeah, it's us. And when you're declined, I'm disappointed. Right? Uh, when you're approved, I'm happy. That that goes a long, long way. Romeo, I think you you got a phone call or something like that, but you were gonna uh offer something too.

SPEAKER_02 40:46

I've got a strategy that I do uh at the time of the application. I tell them that I'm not my job is not just to sell you insurance, but to find you the best deal. Now, company A will most likely take you and it's gonna cost you five thousand dollars a year, but there's a chance that company B might take you, give you the same coverage for only $4,000. Now, if if rejection would bother you, let's go with company A and pay the five thousand dollars, or do you want to try it? And that has helped me many times. That if I suspect you might not take it, they're all ready for well, then plan B is good. We'll go with that one.

SPEAKER_01 41:21

Yeah, I I I I like the way you set that up in that you almost get the confirmation from the client of this may be a harder road based on what I know about your health, but I'm willing to try, right? I I think that's important. That acknowledgement, you know, it's one thing to do the upfront education and not necessarily get that confirmation, just say, you know, this is what may happen, right? But I think I like that extra degree of, you know, would you like to try this avenue knowing that there's a possibility of decline? I think that's really good. You know, they put the um onus on themselves of acknowledging that and and saying yes to actually taking that path. I like that. That's a good approach. Well, that was awesome. There were a lot of learning nuggets to take from uh just the three of you and and those in the chat who um, you know, shared their experience. Let me go back to the chat here. Uh Chris said, I just did an equitrust, wealth max bonus life, single premium 1035 relob sum, death benefit grows, terminal critical, chronic, and longevity benefits. Interesting. Okay. Uh Robert said, I just talked to client off the edge of fear of being declined after getting pre-screen approval. Nobody wants to be rated or declined. I was able to let her know that we have other options if that worst case happens. I reconfirmed that their health is not changed. A lot of it is emotional, right? Um the emotions, you know, permeate our rational psychology, right? If you can show them something that's grounded in logic, that you have a process for doing this, you have a strategy, and it's kind of time-tested, empirically tested, right? I think that really helps people to get to a more rational state of thinking. That's why I brought up, you know, again, you could go to your doctor and you get a clean bill of health, and that's an amazing thing that, you know, you're grateful for every single day. Profit seeking insurance company is not going to give you that same sort of um picture or view about your health, even if you're approved, right? They are looking to see if you are going to be a good policy holder that they could, you know, potentially make some money off at the end of the day, right? They're not trying to break even, they're not trying to lose money. Uh, on the aggregate, they are trying to make money, which means more premium brought in. Then claims paid up. Right. And just helping people get to that logic really, really kind of heads off that emotion. Your doctor is concerned about you dying. Long-term care is concerned about you needing help before death. 100%, right? That's that's not the lens your doctor is is using when saying, you know, are you healthy today in front of me at this checkup appointment? Right. They they examine your health into completely different lenses. And uh at the end of the day, they gotta be treated differently. Um, totally agree. And I think um, from an underwriting standpoint, yeah, just continue, just continue doing cases and continue to add this dialogue into your process and continue to collect stories. I'm so glad so many of you have shared your experiences today, because for somebody who listens to this who's just starting out with long-term care, or even seasoned veterans who just need a new perspective on something or to hear another story, borrowing some of that language is extremely helpful, gives you a huge leg up. It's not necessarily faking it, it's it's saying, you know, I have uh colleagues who have experienced X, Y, or Z. This is a real thing that happens, so we want to prepare for it, right? We want to follow um this specific strategy, and this is the you know most secure path to getting us something. Um let's see. 33 years of doing nothing but long-term care, plenty of stories. Yeah, I mean, it it's just the knowledge base grows with every new case. You don't know what is gonna walk through that door or be in the Zoom room when you have your next meeting, right? And that's part of the exciting thing about it. Makes you want to keep meeting new people. It's just building into your almanac at the end of the day. So I love this topic. Uh I will certainly see if I can drag Miss Linda. I say drag, but she would, you know, be overjoyed to do this at some point to do um her field underwriting for the year. Generally, I save that till um around the end of the year. I'll see if we can get her in at some point this year. I'm sure we will for her field underwriting study group. There are plenty of good field underwriters on this call. I just think Miss Linda is like exhaustive with the amount of upfront questions that she asks, but I don't think that any question that she asks up front is unreasonable to ask. And there's a very good reason for every question that's asked. So I I love to get her thorough process in front of everybody. So we'll be sure to do that. I think those two topics go hand in hand, right? The better you feel done to write, uh, the better you set up everything from an expectation standpoint, the better experience you're going to have, whether the uh end result of your first application is decline or approve, right? Um, the more set up you are to pivot. So I think all in all, it's like be empathetic, be prepared, be proactively communicative, and be an advocate and fight for the client. And you're going to be really good at this piece of the process. And you're going to save cases that other people wouldn't be able to save. And if that's the case, you are a very referable person, right? People who don't want to dive into that aspect, who feel they aren't good at that aspect, who ran into that experience once, and that was enough to say, eh, long-term care is not for me. You are a great source for that person because you'll allow them to add that to their book of business and uh not have to deal with the side they don't like, right? So a lot of these skills we go over are about making you really referable and understanding your values, you've already got these qualities at the end of the day. I think if you have a good experience with a client that needs to pivot, kind of like uh Diane was saying, I really hope we can come away with a solution. I'm sad I got declined, but I really hope we can end up with something. You get that client something, I bet there's a couple people they know who will want you uh to work with them at the end of the day, people that they're close to. I I want you to help um, you know, some of the ladies I go to breakfast with, you know, I want you to help my sister or brother, whatever it may be. So um I think this is a great discussion. Thank you everybody for um, you know, sharing your experiences and what has worked for you and your stories, it just really helps everybody's collective knowledge. Uh before before we wrap, uh, Gretchen, I know the marketing team is taking over this year's study group next week. What do you got planned?

SPEAKER_05 49:10

Yes, we are. Um, and if you are in the um Facebook group that we have, Ask the Long-Term Care Insurance Specialists, I asked a question in there and I got one response from Mr. Glickman. Um, I wanted to know what um sort of marketing um obstacles you were you were um experiencing, and um we wanted to turn that into a study group topic. So Mark commented AI. So I decided, yeah, since it's such a huge part of our um not just RD, but just our process right now. Um literally, Joe and I, for those of you who know Joe, my partner in crime here, we spent an hour and a half uh trying to teach Claude a little bit more about our business so that we could automate a few more things. So we're gonna have a session and I'm calling it the how to build an actual strategy out of a love-hate relationship with AI, because that's where I am. I understand, I think we all do, that there are tremendous benefits that come with the technology, but there, you know, there are also things that that could be problematic and that, you know, that we're all kind of trying to figure out. So we're gonna try to figure these out together. Joe and I will be on the call. I think Jason, you'll be on.

SPEAKER_06 50:50

I'll be on.

SPEAKER_05 50:52

And um, maybe we'll get Mark on too, and we'll all just have a chat about how we're using AI and how you can use it to benefit your business and make a few things easier so that you can spend more time actually talking to your clients and and helping them with their own challenges that aren't AI related. So that's what we're gonna do next week. So come prepared, ask to ask questions or give your um your take on AI, how you're using it. We love to to share ideas and you know, see, see where the technology is going to take us. Yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_01 51:32

And I think this is uh this is a category of like tech-enabled business that really requires like a do's and don'ts kind of list. And many of us don't really know where the do's end and the don'ts begin. Uh, you know, whether we feel like we got it covered or not. So this will be a good opportunity to learn together. We're dealing with something that is so new.

SPEAKER_05 51:53

But but it's changing so fast that I may not have a job on Monday.

SPEAKER_01 51:58

So yeah, it's it's true. And at the very end of the day, I find myself like rubbing my eyes, like my eyes are red just from talking to AI for an hour, talking in circles. Yeah, Chris will hire you, Gretchen. Oh we appreciate that, Chris. All right. Well, I'm looking forward to that. And uh, for this one, that's all we got. So thank you for joining us. We uh really appreciate all of you as always for sharing your perspectives and helping everybody learn together. Be well, and we'll talk to you this time next week.

SPEAKER_05 52:33

Thanks, everyone. See you out there.

unknown 52:34

Bye.