How to Identify and Close Group Cases

Most advisors know group LTCi exists, but few know how to spot a viable case, start the conversation, or keep it moving when life gets in the way. Learn from a specialist who has made it his practice.

In this episode of the Buddy Study Podcast, Gretchen Berry sits down with Dale Berry, a long-term care specialist who spent decades focused on individual planning before making a deliberate move into group cases. Dale shares the mindset, process, and practical tactics that have helped him identify strong prospects, build trust with HR contacts and benefits brokers, and close group cases that sometimes take two to three years to develop.

This is a candid, practitioner-level conversation about what actually works in group LTCi, from the first qualifying call to the "final follow-up" email that consistently gets a response.

We explore:

• How Dale identifies a viable group prospect and what signals he looks for before committing time to a proposal
• Why a responsive, interested contact matters more than group size
• The opening conversation with HR directors and benefits brokers who have never offered LTCi
• How demographics, including gender composition, influence product fit and enrollment projections
• Why employer funding is critical to participation and long-term case success
• How to navigate a group that has stalled, and the subject-line strategy that reliably re-engages prospects
• Transitioning groups from legacy Unum plans to today's hybrid products
• The difference between serving as an account manager versus a consultant during enrollment
• How Dale structures referral partnerships, including a straightforward 50/50 split on joint cases

This episode is designed to help advisors:

• Recognize and qualify group LTCi opportunities within their existing book of business
• Build productive referral relationships with P&C agents, broker-dealers, and financial advisors
• Lead group case conversations with confidence, from first contact through close
• Understand how the specialist role and the handoff model can expand practice revenue without adding complexity

CHAPTER MARKERS

0:00 Welcome & Episode Overview

1:10 Dale's Background: From CNA to Group LTCi

2:39 Personal Story: Why This Work Matters

6:06 How to Identify a Viable Group Case

8:33 Opening the Conversation with HR and Benefits Brokers

10:02 Qualifying Questions Before Building a Proposal

11:11 Why Group Demographics, Especially Gender, Matter

13:14 CRM, Follow-Up Systems, and the Persistence Playbook

15:47 When a Case Gets Stuck: How to Re-Engage

18:38 Handling "Let's Revisit Next Year" Responses

21:27 Product Overview: Hybrid Plans and the Starter Plan Concept

23:30 Using the Buddy Calculator to Compare Plans and Carriers

31:05 Transitioning Groups Off Legacy Unum Plans

33:56 Best Markets Beyond School Districts

35:00 Employer Funding: Why It's the Key to Participation

40:43 The Specialist as Consultant During Enrollment

44:41 How Dale Structures Referral Splits: 50/50 Joint Cases

46:05 Dale's Closing Thoughts and How to Connect

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🔎 About Buddy Study Podcast

The Buddy Study Podcast helps insurance professionals and financial planners master Long-Term Care Insurance through case studies, expert interviews, and carrier product updates. Our goal is to help advisors become more confident, efficient, and knowledgeable when helping clients plan for long-term care.

Transcript

Welcome & Episode Overview

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Hi everyone and welcome to the Thursday study group. I'm excited about this. I'm Gretchen Berry, Chief Marketing Officer of Bunny INS. And today I'm joined by another Barry, Dale Barry, a Bunny INS LTC specialist who has taken the unique step of going from primarily individual business to crossing over into group. So I think it's important for us to hear from him and how he did it. So today we're going to focus on how to identify enclosed group cases. And Dale's going to have some important advice to share. But before we get started with Dale, I just want to let you know that there's going to be a part two of this. So next month on June 18th, Lori Martin, another buddy LTCI specialist, is going to walk us through how she manages a group actually through the enrollment process. So stay tuned for that. So all right, let's get started here. Hi Dale.

Dale's Background: From CNA to Group LTCi

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Hi there. I think we should start this conversation by uh telling everyone a little bit about your background because I know there's also a personal story here as far as long-term care.

SPEAKER_03 1:25

Right. Well, I've been doing long-term care since uh 1988, so a few years ago. Um, and I got involved with that when I was with CNA, uh selling there. Uh, and I was a senior um life sales rep as well, as became a regional manager for them, assistant manager for them as well, uh, doing life long-term care, disability annuities. And my focus was long-term care with them as well. Um, and I would talk to different groups and everything else. But in that, uh, I really got an introduction to long-term care. Before we had the tax-qualified, non-tax-qualified plans and all of that, where we had a lot of underwriting going on. Uh, and I worked with CNA for 15 and a half years. So if you need to know about the CNA products, I could tell you about that. They left the industry in 2003. Uh, and uh, and so, and then that whole thing unraveled and we looked, we ended, they sold our company to Swiss re and that all changed. And I went to Capitus Financial uh and did uh work with Rich Kapeski and Linda Yankee and and Judy Pettigrew and some early people at Capitus Financial and worked with broker dealers as well as individual property casualty agents in developing business with them as well. So that's my background.

Personal Story: Why This Work Matters

SPEAKER_03 2:39

My personal story was my father-in-law needed care uh at home. He was a very private person. We had no clue what was wrong with him. My mother-in-law took care of him in their home. He lived pretty much in the recliner with a sheet on it, and she'd bring the urinal to him and everything else, and it was just, it was not a comfortable situation, but he never let us know what was wrong with him. Eventually, and she he was about 6'3, about 250. She was 5'1 ⁇ , probably under 100 pounds. So caring for him, because they had no long-term care. I tried to get them to get long-term care in the early 90s, but he said we got it all taken care of, Dale. Um, and of course they did not. Uh so she did that, and then after his passing, uh, she had she had no clue where they stood financially. And so she asked me if I could look at their situation and find out what they can do, what she needs to do. And I found out that not only did he let his life insurance policy go, um, that he was at a life, the pension he had with the teachers' union was a life-only pension, therefore the his income was gone. And now she was going to be on Social Security. Uh, and I let her know that she had enough savings to stay in her house for about two and a half years. And we would decide from there on what to do. So she did move in. We added onto our house, moved her in with us. Uh, she was fine for a while, but then had some health issues based on her caregiving for him. Um, and then ultimately on Friday at four o'clock, uh, she's in the hospital. And Friday at four o'clock, they call us and tell us that they're gonna release her on Tuesday to go do a long-term care shopping uh for where she's gonna go. Um, so we looked at all of the various facilities. I obviously was familiar with them, but we found a facility for her. My wife and I would uh care for her when she was here before that time. In fact, there was even a time when my we had three people coming in to see her each day. Um, and my wife walked in to see her, and she asked my wife if she worked here. That just crushed her. Just crushed her. Now, luckily it was up because of medication she was on and everything else. And ultimately, when she went to a facility, my wife and I would go visit her five days a week in the in the afternoon, evening, uh, to see her, be an advocate for her, and then we had paid our neighbor to be go over there twice a week as well to make sure we were there. So I understand long-term care well. Uh, I understand the situation and what it needs to be to be, and she ultimately, by the way, spent all of her assets down and went on to Medical, that's in California versus Medicaid in other states. Um, and so I actually filled an application out, submitted it, and at that time we were not below the $2,000 limit. So at that time, they let me know that that I got out reapply in a month. And I did that, and we got covered for her, but then she passed away literally two months later.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 5:41

So that was my personal story for that.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

Wow. That yeah. I know many of us have have stories like that. Um, and I've heard I've heard you talk about that before. So thank you for sharing.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Um, I appreciate that. Um, all right, so let's switch gears here a little bit. And um I wanted to I wanted you to sort of walk us through

How to Identify a Viable Group Case

SPEAKER_01 6:06

um how you first identify like a viable group case. What what signals? Um is there group size, industry, demographics, benefit? You know, what what is it that tells you this I this is somebody I need to follow up with?

SPEAKER_03 6:26

Well, for me, I mean I worked with property casual aids for a long time, for over, you know, 30 years or whatever it's been. I work with people in their deployment department, and for me, it's identifying somebody that is passionate about looking into long-term care, whether it's the broker or the actual HR person at the company. And once we identify that group, it's a matter of what size the group is, of course, where they're where they're uh side is in. And we look at that. And as long as we got, to me, as long as I have a responsive, uh, active person that is interested in looking and looking at the long-term care planning process and solutions, I am happy to to look to that. So that's what I look to do, whether it's the company, the CEO, or the HR person, I just want to make sure that they are on board with a learning about long-term care. And I do want to hear their story about long-term care as well.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

So as a as a PNC person, you're you're I you're looking at your book of business. Right. That's that's kind of where you're starting, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:31

Well, that's where the the agents I work with, primarily with CNA, we developed property casualty agencies. Um so my I've I've been in that world for a long time. So that was my natural fit for that, is that my referral source was going to them, talking to them about long-term care, but it's individual, and it was individual, by the way, until about three years ago.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:52

Um, so I did individual planning for a long time and and finding out what would be a right fit for them. And then I did sell when I earlier on when I was at Capitus, we did, you know, unum and we did uh Met Life on their plans and sold those plans as well. So we did the group policy also.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

So there's already sort of a trust factor there.

SPEAKER_03 8:12

Right, yeah. And that's what it takes. It takes somebody to be you again. I want them to be responsible, even if they're new, as long as they want to learn about long-term care, the process we go through, what we need, and then the great things that we have when it comes to group long-term care.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Right, right. So, all right, then that that's that's actually a good segue into my

Opening the Conversation with HR and Benefits Brokers

SPEAKER_01 8:33

my next question, which is um clue us into what your opening conversation might be with like an HR director or benefits broker who is who maybe has never offered long-term care insurance before, which is probably a lot of them.

SPEAKER_03 8:50

Well, my whole thing would be again, I would want to find out from them. First, I always ask about benefits they already offer and everything else. And then secondly, I want to find out if they ever have encountered personally a story like this for themselves, for their family members or somebody else. And if they are, if this is something that if they've never looked into long-term care before, obviously we have a great opportunity when it comes to the group side with guaranteed issue to look into that policy. So my conversation with them would be have you ever looked into long-term care individually or personally? And if not, you think this would be an added benefit for your employees if we did offer something like this. Um, and then we'd look at that and find out the people that we'd have, the size group we have, and if we could do something for them. And I, of course, what we love at the Buddy system is obviously having guaranteed issue on the group side with the new plans versus the frustration of individual side and getting declensed and rated policies.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Right, right. Um, I'm I want to ask you about about the product offering in a second, um, because you just reminded me of something.

Qualifying Questions Before Building a Proposal

SPEAKER_01 10:02

But before we get into that, once you've had that conversation and and you have the group's interest, what are like the first few things that that you want to know about them before you commit real time to building that proposal? Is there anything that's a disqualifier?

SPEAKER_03 10:24

Well, I need to know. Obviously, I need to know if they offer any other benefits to their group at all. Uh, you know, if they are offering benefits, is there employer contributions to any of that or not? Um, I need to find those kind of things out. So I do want to find out what their interest is and what their funding is gonna be for the case. Uh there's gonna be, for me, it's just looking at that and finding out do we have a case or not? Uh is it a young group? Is it an older group? Um, you know, what are we looking at when it comes to it? Do we have a lot of females or males? Um, you know, what are we looking at?

SPEAKER_01 11:00

So and what is the difference? Like, like say it's a predominant say it's a majority female organization. Like what what

Why Group Demographics, Especially Gender, Matter

SPEAKER_01 11:11

might that conversation, why is that important?

SPEAKER_03 11:13

Well, it's very, very important, as we've talked about in the buddy system before, because as on the group side, we get really good, we uh not only we have guaranteed issue, but we have discounted rates because of the unisex rates that we offer on the uh hybrid side, uh, on the plans we have. And so having that is a big fit. I'll tell you, when we look at the difference between male and female on the individual side, it's a big difference. So I do use the body calculators, I do show that in the system as far as what the difference is on family females versus males, and we'd have that discussion about that.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Right, right. So that's a good point. That's um, so you really you're you're keyed in on so let's talk, let's get to product then. Um I you're it sounds like you're sort of clued into uh a product, uh how do you determine that? Like what is are you using, you're using the buddy system, you're using product buddy, the state, obviously, the you know, uh other demographics. Is that is that your primary process? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:22

And by the way, the answer on the female side also, if we have a larger female audience on the group side, we have a much more likelihood of getting clients to sign people to sign up on the plan. You know, too often in the individual side of the house, uh it's it's the males that are saying, we don't need this, I'm just gonna die. What you know, my wife will take care of me, that kind of thing. And the females are the one that usually would be the caregivers. So they're more attuned to needing this care on the group side as well. So they'll be more apt to signing up for that.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

Right. So um that that's another good segue. Because um when when the leadership team at Buddy, when we were talking about who would be a good person to do this for me to interview, and everybody said, Dale, you got you gotta have Dale on because

CRM, Follow-Up Systems, and the Persistence Playbook

SPEAKER_01 13:14

you're known as a closer. I don't know if you know that.

SPEAKER_03 13:17

Well, you know what? I don't know if I'm a closer or not. I I I will say that the one my one plus in life is I have used uh since I got to Capitus Financial, we had we did uh a My Drive Google uh Excel spreadsheets because we worked with people like uh UBS and Oppenheimer and Raymond James and all the big wire houses and individual producers as well. And so we had spreadsheets on everything from and we had a lot of like Jason would do on his former life, did a lot of quotes and they went nowhere. Right. Um, and so it's just a matter of I I use that currently still, besides the CRM system that we have with HubSpot and everything else. I use that to monitor my cases, pending and prospecting cases, applications being submitted, the communication that I have with people. I want to know when I touched that person last on a communication, on a call, a text, or an email. I want to know that. So I I follow that regularly every day and look at that. And when I don't look at that, I can get lost pretty fast because there's a lot going on. So, and and so that's what I do. I follow up with those cases. And the one comment I get from my brokers that I work with, the people that I work with, is I'm persistent. I don't want to be nagging to somebody, I don't want to be overly on the top of things. So I will, I will, you know, tend to start off and I'll send a couple of emails or calls or whatever it is and ask them. And I always want a warm lead. I don't want an agent to stag on a whole file here, Dale. Go through it, it's just look at it and it's gold mined. Go for it. That never worked. Uh I want to know you if it's an important client for you, it's an important client for me, whether I don't care how size big the client is and everything else. Let's talk about that. And I want you to call, introduce me, or email, introduce me by email, that client, so he knows my name. Because he may be the property casualty guy or the financial advisor, and I may be the expert in long-term care. But when it comes down to making a decision, I may make all the recommendations I want to, and they'll turn to Mark and say, So, Mark, uh, what do you think? What do you think I should do? Right? Yeah because they're the they're the relationship. They're the relationship person. So you have to have that person in your corner when it comes to it. It's very important.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

Sure. For sure. So

When a Case Gets Stuck: How to Re-Engage

SPEAKER_01 15:47

when when a case gets a group case gets stuck, what do you what what is you in your experience, what is your um, what do you think is typically the reason?

SPEAKER_03 16:00

Well, typically because life got in the way. Typically something's happened. I had that recently with a situation where it got stuck because the person I was trying to do business with, uh, their oldest daughter died suddenly. So that kind of stuff, life can get in the way, whether it's a wedding that happens or a death that happens or whatever, or it could be with the enrollment people and benefits people. It could be that they're working on the enrollment for that group. And then that's it, we have to pass that period before we start our process because they're not going to get involved with doing, and we don't want them to get involved in doing long-term care, the new plan during their enrollment process, because it's not it's a little loss if you do that.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

Right.

SPEAKER_03 16:42

So my goal is to always, you know, look at that, and I will, and I do send out my reminders to people is also not so many emails and calls or whatever it would be. And then I will, what gets their attention, like the group side, what gets their attention is the end of something, right? The end of the enrollment. The the groups what for me, when I'm not getting a response, and I put in a subject line final follow-up, I get a call or an email. If I don't put that in there, I don't get a response. It's like help me back out to me in a month. And so, but I put that in there and I always say to the client, if you have no more interest in this, these follow-ups, just let me know. Or if you want me to put it on hold for six months or whatever, let me know. And I have closed cases. We have a case right now on the group side that we've worked on for two years, three years. Yep. So I don't let them go if they're an important client for that broker or that financial advisor, and they're still interested, but it's not the right timing for them.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Right. Yeah, that that um sort of are you still interested, or uh in the when once it gets into the enrollment, we call it the last chance email. Yes, yes, yeah. It always uh tends to scoop people up.

SPEAKER_03 18:00

It's amazing how it works because again, we all have things in life. We're working whether we're doing long-term care planning only in our life, whether we're doing property casualty only in our life, or we're securities business only. That's their world every single day. They already have a thousand emails in their inbox, and so I have to text them or call them because they're not picking up their emails, you know, whatever it would be.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

Right, right. So when you're dealing, yeah. Yeah, when you're dealing with um an AHR contact who says, Let me run this by the CFO or the COO or we'll re revisit this next

Handling "Let's Revisit Next Year" Responses

SPEAKER_01 18:38

year. What is your sort of playbook for that then?

SPEAKER_03 18:41

Well, the for that would really be, you know, for me, it's trying to get them to step into some kind of starter plan. I realize we can revisit this in a year, whatever it'd be, but we got dates of birth we're worried about people getting aging in, and maybe something's gonna age out of this process because they're gonna be 70 or 71 and they're now gone from that platform. So it's always a matter of I have to have some kind of urgency for them to be able to do something because they may just put it off. You're right. But and obviously, we have all had uh people that became uninsurable. They were procrastinators, they wanted to get all the information, all the information, all the information. They did nothing, and now they're on, they had an event happened, they're on a certain medication now. Something happened now. On the group side, we have the luck of guaranteed issue. On the individual side, that case may be solved or or declined now. From the group side, we have opportunity. So we I do have clients on our group side that I will that are very, very interested in this plan. And if you have an advocate, the HR person, the CEO, the president, or an employee, like I have one case right now, um, she really wanted long-term care. She's in her 50s. She really wanted long, she has no long-term care. She likes the idea of a simplified guaranteed issue plan. Um, and and I I think she's still insurable, but either way, she would get a guaranteed issue policy. Was she a CEO? No, she's not, she's just an employee, but she's been there forever. And it was just taken over by somebody else.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Oh, got it.

SPEAKER_03 20:16

So they she brought it up, and the financial advisor is her sister, and so it it moved forward with that.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

So yeah, we've had we have had cases where

Product Overview: Hybrid Plans and the Starter Plan Concept

SPEAKER_01 20:27

I don't know if it was the CEO, um, but we've had you know leaders come to us who are uninsurable technically. Um, so they're they're particularly drawn to the guaranteed issue and they're still within that age range.

SPEAKER_03 20:42

Yeah. I mean, obviously, this is whatever we do on the on the group side, for the most part, it's not gonna be the full financial plan, the full plan for long-term care. It's gonna be a starter plan, but I'm telling clients always on the individual side and group side, having something is better than nothing. Yep, you know, because we never know when that event's gonna happen. You may very well go through life and never need this. And by the way, I always tell clients, I hope you never need this. Yeah, yeah. You know, but it may happen. And of course, for men, having a hybrid policy is the both worlds, it's the best of both worlds because for them, it's like, I don't need long-term care, but okay, if it has life insurance to it, then maybe I can do it.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Right, right. And there's that sort of starter plan idea, it it gives them something.

SPEAKER_03 21:29

Yeah. Yeah. And I love, of course, the the standard plan with the 5% inflation on California uh benefits and Utah. That's wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Right. Um, okay, let's get a little bit more um granular on challenges. So let's let's can you walk us through um if you ever had a specific click case that almost failed. And how did you how did you

SPEAKER_03 22:00

sort of manage that what what turned it around well I think the the the case for any of these cases for me again I've had a I have a case we have a case we're working on the larger case we're working on right now and and that case looked like it was on go away but we kept planting seeds for that for getting it done and it finally came aboard so that for me it's always a matter of planting those seeds in our group side reminding them that we do it because too often uh they don't do what we do and when it comes time to needing it uh whether it's six months from now or a year from now if we're not in their queue they may forget that we do that and they go someplace else so I always want to be in their mind as far as the long-term care specialist when it comes to that. And so the cases that I've had that I've had difficulties with uh it really came down to just things that got in the way with the company itself. I didn't think it was going to happen at all. But it would be persistent in reminding the broker or the financial advisor that we need to follow up with this client and get this back on the on the plate as far as doing something with them. And it's just doing that and that's what I do. I just got to be persistent on that. Because and until they say go away I will continue to follow up on a periodic basis with them. Right. So I don't have anything specific that I know of on the group side that I would that I've almost lost the couple of cases that we're working on now.

unknown 23:23

Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

It took a while to develop right right okay um let's jump back to product

Using the Buddy Calculator to Compare Plans and Carriers

SPEAKER_01 23:30

real quick. The product we've been talking about we've been referencing is the standard yep it's a hybrid.

SPEAKER_03 23:40

Long-term care we we call it long-term care with life some call it life with long-term care but it you know that that life chassis there what do you have any trouble explaining the concept of that I don't I have when we first started with this and I got involved by the way with the buddy system when the the CARES act happened in uh in Washington state and I and I had never done besides the few cases I did a while back with with the carriers I never really wasn't involved in group long-term care cases. And so when I heard about this I said this may be a big thing we got to get involved in this and learn about this. And you guys were a wonderful education tool for me. You're you've developed the program as we progress for the last three years in a big way where we've come and I just for me it's a matter of I don't have any problem because I've been life licensed for a long time before long-term care even. So I have no problem in talking about whether it's a whole life universal life or a term and and I know I we had never had in our world my world term to 100 term to 121 that was never around and so having that is a nice feature as well for clients that want to lower their costs. But overall um I love the product because of that and I have no problem explaining in with all state the standard plan having a benefit that we have for most states um that has a benefit that will be there no matter what versus the Trub and trust mark policies that reduce down at a certain age on a certain percentage is a nice feature to have. So I can say this benefit's going to be there no matter what you use on long-term care. And I can explain the other plans as well but it's sweeter to say it's going to be always be there for you no matter what and you have a multiplier of benefits in regard to long-term care on top of that. And having that 5% especially for a 30 year old or a 40 year old paying 10 bucks or 20 bucks or whatever it is a month and having a 15000 2000 benefit at age you know 70 is it's huge.

SPEAKER_01 25:53

Right right um for those of you who who maybe are are new to to Buddy there is a we we call it the portal it's the Buddy system. You can go in there um and if you're technically doing business with us you can get um a free membership into the Buddy system which gives you access to all the tools that that that Dale is talking about and you'll be able to see what's available and what it's it's easy to understand what's available in what state and you know put in some basic demographics into one of the tools and and and it'll give you a good sort of snapshot of and I know Jason's shown this many many times the calculators that is a that is visual that's just terrific and I know we got some new calculators coming out but that calculator really helps tell the story when we're talking to somebody. Jason Jason do you want to pull that up real quick if you mind? Sure. Let's do that real quick because some people may not have seen that or forgotten the bound.

SPEAKER_03 26:54

And I like that we have them on the product buddy looking at the plans and putting your information in and figuring out what plan we're going to go with. Yeah is great.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

And I sits out a PDF and you're good to go.

SPEAKER_02 27:06

That's right that's the calculator yeah yes this is our calculator um I think the greatest thing that this calculator can do for um just your overall knowledge is comparing carriers or comparing different plan designs or benefit amounts with the same carrier with each other. So if you are looking at the standard and you want to see how the term life with 5% compound in Michigan and Wisconsin compares to the whole life 5% compound in California and Utah you can absolutely do that if you're working with a large group and you say well I am going to be working with Chubbs EOB too because this group is over 2000 lives and I want to see how that compares to uh trustmark's Life Plus Care for example you can do that. I think this is probably the first of its kind tool where you can compare these products side by side um so whether you are numbers inclined or not we try to give you as much information as you may want if you are numbers inclined. If you're not you can be very much like me and just kind of look at um total premiums whoa our uh AI advisor is getting getting squirrely on me um you can just kind of look at the multipliers right at the end of the day and say why is there such a stark difference in value? Where is that coming from right? And product buddy I use on every single potential case that I have no questions asked. So Dale I'm not I know everybody uses the tools differently if you have different value that you get out of this calculator versus um any others that we have.

SPEAKER_03 29:24

No and I and I use this all the time and the key for me is I know the average claim is around 80 years old or whatever. So typically I will toggle to that and show them what 80 looks like and my goal here is to say you got a $25,000 death benefit and over that time from 45 to 80 you put in $15,000. So you know the good news about there's a crossover point at some point and obviously being 45 you're young um Mark you're still young don't worry about it and Jason's much younger um but for us older people this is a nice little calculator to help us figure out is a fit for us when in whatever benefit it is we're looking at for group or individual stuff. So on the group side comparing plans especially with the school districts that I'm working with on with unum it's nice to be able to throw in the unum plans that are that were offered at one point that went away on February 1st and we can do it with most policies that are sold we're we're not with inflation and uh and so we can look at that and figure out can we do something on it uh on the policy or not um so uh you know this is what I use all the time to figure out what plan we go to do I use Chubb do I use trustmark do I use Trans America do I stay here with the standard policy it comes down to the size of the group the obviously the demographics of that uh and everything else you're looking for but this is what I use all the time when it comes to it showing it on a on a webinar with or a Zoom meeting with somebody and showing them what I can do. And then I would do a census quote for them uh through the group as well and and show them that as well not maybe on this call here but later on when we do a presentation

Transitioning Groups Off Legacy Unum Plans

SPEAKER_03 31:05

to them.

SPEAKER_02 31:05

Yeah that's a question I was going to ask you actually Dale is I know at least one of the cases that you're working on right now is uh a case that previously was offering Unum to all of its employees new hires yeah funding the plans um so I just want to get an idea of how you are navigating the conversation we had a study group about it a few months back where we kind of talked through here's how we lay out the information here's how we navigate the conversation but interested to hear your perspective on working those types of cases.

SPEAKER_03 31:44

Well the good news about those cases is that that plan ended you know when they were still alive it was hard to have that conversation because their premiums are so much less than the plans that are being offered today but that plan is now gone. So the new employees you know can't get that policy anymore. And if you got a school district or a company that's offering benefits on Unum and now we got a new plan, what is out there now not what was out there in January what's out there now that you can offer and we don't know what's going to be offered down the road we every week we have new plans, new offers. So you know in the in the individual world you're always worried about a new policy series coming out which had new higher rates and so not only did you age three years waiting and procrastinating on that but now you got a new plan with new higher rates on the plan. So on the group side it's a matter of what benefits are out there now, what can we offer are we going to have GI more than likely yes. Are we going to have SI maybe maybe not uh is an employer funded that's a big thing. And I tried to get all my groups to do a base policy uh funded plan. Doesn't always work but if they can if they're doing that with their employees and making contributions that's why initially when we talked about contributions on employee benefits if they're really having a rich benefit with their employees they may very well jump into this as well and help them out with that. But on the on this side the school districts do offer that they offer a base policy. So um it is transitioning from what they had long-term care only no inflation in most cases um and going to the hybrid policies and then under letting them explain you know what we have as far as that benefit is concerned and they loved it that both an agency that we're working on right now as well as the school district they're looking at that and deciding what they're gonna do and uh and getting the application done and uh so we'll see what happens with that's what we're working on right now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:43

And um we have a question in the chat from Chris I know we talked about school districts but he was wondering uh what are the what have been your best markets beyond that if there are any

Best Markets Beyond School Districts

SPEAKER_02 33:56

that really stand out to you.

SPEAKER_03 33:58

Me right now when I'm talking to my agencies that I work with it's it's insurance agencies. You know these guys need benefits and and they understand insurance and it's it's working with property casual agencies and them do it. Or just again a company that is offering good benefits to their employees that care about their employees not a small company that is only the employer and the spouse and that's pretty much it. It's it's company that has you know 10 employees or 15 or 20 employees and they care about these people, their family, if you will, in the as far as employees are concerned. And they want to offer something rich to them to have that because somebody in that family of employees had something happen to one of their loved ones and they know that they've heard the story and that's the key. They've heard the story.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

You know it it when you said that it reminded me of something that I wanted to bring up and either Dale either you or Jason can can address this. But when you are talking about the smaller groups because we can go down to groups as small as

Employer Funding: Why It's the Key to Participation

SPEAKER_01 35:00

three um uh how do you would how do you bring up employer funding? What's what's a good process for that? Because that's huge. That's that's huge for the the clo the well close of the sale.

SPEAKER_03 35:15

We want to have the best possible offers in the future as well. So when I have a group that says we're just gonna do voluntary plans and I have one right now that that's the case um I want to have as much participation as possible with that volunteer group because I want to make sure that we're gonna have a good offer down the road as well. So I'm trying to get employer funded with everybody on a small base policy because we know that'll be a given, right? Everybody gets $25,000 or $15,000 or whatever the figure is, they get that benefit they have something. We know it's portable that can go with them but they have that. So the key is really that for me is it's employer funded is everything because it it helps the company insurance company it helps us the buddy INS and it helps the broker as well on the sale. Without it it it's like a shot in the dark as far as uh are they going to do it or not when you got 30 year olds and 40 year olds are they can even think about it because they don't on the individual side most of the time.

SPEAKER_02 36:17

Yeah I think you give a good perspective when it comes to um getting that across to the broker. And I think when speaking with the group um especially smaller groups what helps is just to say look the carriers have established participation minimums it's something that they are familiar with if they have any other benefits of course and I just try to tell them that for larger groups they're generally going to hold you to like a percentage participation five to fifteen percent whatever it may be. Small groups it's great that we get this access to the product but from a nominal perspective or a percentage based perspective the amount of participation they want to see is high. If I'm speaking to a three person group we got to see 100% participation right yeah and so we don't want to bank and I'm and I'm not necessarily going to go into the intricacies of like I'm not gonna be the boogeyman and say they're gonna they're gonna take away everything if if you know as a five person group we we get two applications. I'm not going to say oh don't worry about it if we don't hit the minimums I've never seen them pull the policies or refute it refuse to issue them. I'm not gonna be extreme on either side I'm just gonna say the carrier has a minimum minimum almost implies or else I don't have to put that in their mind.

SPEAKER_03 37:50

I'm just saying we have a participation minimum we have to hit yeah and by the way Chris on your question also is I don't know if you do referral sources or not for me it's a matter of you know for many many years it was the agent handling everything I did the quotes and everything else and nothing ever went anywhere half the time. And so I had said to them when I found out in property casualty agencies, independent brokers or especially security financial people is they don't either have the expertise and they definitely don't have the time. And so my play with them is let me be the time let I can do this for you. You hand the ball to me I'll run with from A to Z, handle it and we can do a split on the case for you. So find if it's whatever they're whatever they're working with some agencies have specialty markets they work with whatever that market is school districts construction people whatever it is uh whatever that source is it's good for me. I don't have a specialty area that I work in but we have I have quite a few brokers that work with school districts so that's one of them for me right now.

SPEAKER_02 38:58

I love that answer you just gave because it's kind of at the core of what we try to do with Buddy INS it's also at the core of what I'm on these study groups generally screaming about when I speak about anything long-term care specialist involved. And what you just heard was an answer from a long-term care specialist who understands their value. Let me be the time you know I'm a handoff to expand your business in areas you do not want to touch, but are lucrative opportunities and are potential referral sources and a way to diversify your business. There's so much in long-term care you don't want to touch, but I understand that you probably realize that it's important protection for people to have.

SPEAKER_03 39:45

Right. And I want to yeah I'm gonna be an income revenue source for them as well you know is the key. And so it's really important that they know that and and financial advisors if they're not doing long-term care planning and I I I really get upset when the financial advisor says oh you don't need this you know uh which I've heard many times but if they don't do that they will lose income down the road because that that assets under management will go away when that claim happens.

SPEAKER_02 40:10

If you think it's important um to implement to make a part of your portfolio yeah I'm sitting right here.

SPEAKER_03 40:17

Yeah yeah so I have to be patient Russian sometimes and persistent but not overwhelming. And that's why it's when we do these cases and stuff it's how many touches do you want on this case as far as emails or communication with the client uh what's overwhelming and what's not overwhelming. Uh I don't want to be the person that they're gonna block every time they see my name you know I want them to look at what I'm sending them.

The Specialist as Consultant During Enrollment

SPEAKER_02 40:43

I have one more question for Dale if I could Gretchen oh yeah absolutely so Dale you've you've played um probably more roles when it comes to an enrollment than anyone I know or you're at least tied for the lead but I but two specific roles um that you can serve within the same enrollment but you have um you have been that sort of account manager for a group before uh and you've also been a consultant on our specialist teams that we roll out to larger enrollments where um employees will um generally be able to ask questions one-to-one that they don't want to ask HR or they don't want to ask on a webinar full of their peers and coworkers, right? Um what would you say are kind of uh the differences there or at least your perspective and experience from the consultant side versus the I am pushing this group forward role.

SPEAKER_03 41:55

I love the consulting part of it. I love that part of it because it's it's uh whether and most of the calls that I have are not 15 minutes but but still um it is giving them information they need they're asking certain specific questions on it um it's a success no matter what and I'm not losing on that case right it's gonna be a success no matter what and it's helping them out figure out if this makes sense I actually had a case where somebody called me for an individual might have been a lead from buddy or maybe somebody else um and uh actually they said well I have right here Dale I have this and my employer is signing up for the standard I said I can talk to you about that policy and they actually bought the standard policy it was much better plan than they were looking at um so but I said you could layer these plans and everything else as well so when I'm looking at these policies the key for me is really just the touch making sure whatever I do is in their best interest period uh you know I have a very ethical standard when it comes to that I'm not there because this guy pays more than the other person pays what fits your situation the best on a group side individual side what's going to be what will fit your narrative and your plan and your objectives on your life that's gonna help you and your family if something was to happen.

SPEAKER_02 43:13

I can I can vouch for the number one the ethical approach on your end but number two just kind of the the fun that the consultant side can bring because of just what you said the objective shifts from all of the things that have to happen to I just need to make sure this person feels good about the decision they are making whether they choose not to go forward with this plan or they do. Right? And that ends up generally leading to people coming to the conclusion that this is a good thing for me to do um in in in most cases. But Just to set it to their comfort and understanding of the plan is really nice because we get a flavor of that on webinars when um folks are asking questions, and it's it's just freeing to be able to say, I just need to impart my knowledge in a way that makes the person feel empowered. I would agree with you.

SPEAKER_03 44:24

I always want to make it their plan. This is your this is not Dale's plan, this is your plan. So I gotta make sure it works for you no matter what it is. I gotta make sure it works for you. That's my key.

SPEAKER_01 44:31

Right. Right. So um I want to make sure we get to Chris's um question. Um, going back to when you said you you split

How Dale Structures Referral Splits: 50/50 Joint Cases

SPEAKER_01 44:41

on cases, yeah what does that look like, Dale?

SPEAKER_03 44:45

Well, if I have somebody that refers a case to me that I'm working at, uh different than buddy on it. But if I have a case that gets referred to me before somebody, uh I handle it from A to Z, I handle it from the introduction part in the agents and welcome to be on the call with me or in a personal in one-on-one meeting with them. Um and then I handle everything as far as the product, uh, underwriting, sale, application, approval, delivery, everything. And then we split the case 50-50.

SPEAKER_00 45:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 45:16

So just that's what I do. That's what I've done for many, many years. I just realized that in working with broker dealers and stuff, you know, they want they want all the money, and you get a small override. They want you to do all the work, get all the money because they're in their corner office, and you get a very sliver of it what they what all the work you did.

SPEAKER_00 45:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:35

I said, I like joint case work better. Yeah, isn't that how it works?

SPEAKER_01 45:40

I'm always used to just getting all the money. Joseph said you stole his business model. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:50

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 45:51

Okay. Are there any other does anybody have any other questions for Dale? Or Dale, do you have any any other thoughts you want to deliver to our audience here? And then, of course, our greater recording.

Dale's Closing Thoughts and How to Connect

SPEAKER_03 46:05

Yeah, I most my only thing is I obviously was reluctant. I am a paper guy, not a tech guy. Uh, you know, I'm used to one-on-one meetings. COVID changed all that, everything went to e everything uh when that happened. Uh, I didn't know about group long-term care for the most part. Usually you hand it off to somebody else when it hell happened in the past. So I had learned this. I'd learned the technology. And Mark and Jason and Joe and got your involvement and Sandy have been wonderful. Uh, and I always say, I may have to repeat my question again because I'm slow, but but they will give me a response the same way they gave it to me the first time. Um, and it's very respectful, it's very professional. Um, I recommend them highly on what we do, and uh, they just do a great job, and their cadence and their speech and everything else is wonderful. I uh what you don't know about me that I'll share is I understand long-term care really well. And part of that was many years ago, 15 years ago, I had a stroke. And um, and with that, I realized all of a sudden I wasn't insurable for long-term care for quite a while. Um, and so you never know when it's gonna happen. You never know when something's gonna happen that changes your life. And it could be you're healthy and everything's great, and then one day something happens, an event happens, and then all of a sudden now you're not insurable for that event. So some of those options will come off the table because of that event. Uh, and so having the group GI is wonderful, having that is is terrific.

SPEAKER_01 47:40

All right. Uh, Jason, do you have anything else you want to cover today?

SPEAKER_02 47:45

Or I mean, I couldn't have said it better. Uh, I think if you are thinking at all about getting into this market, Dale is uh the person to look up to um beyond just kind of professional candor and how he conducts himself and how he works with clients. But I think Dale approaches all things without fear uh when it comes to this business, um, partially because we have a good relationship and he's learned he can lean on us, but partially he um he doesn't worry about you know what might be a little challenging in the middle. He knows uh what the end is all about and what that means to clients. And uh I I can't send Dale an email saying, hey Dale, would you like to be a part of this opportunity? Uh and he feels like he's already typing yes as I'm typing the email to ask. Um, so I just couldn't appreciate you more, Dale. You're like a rock for us. Um, and thanks. Anyone has any questions, go to Dale, get a little bit of his experience because you couldn't get a better source.

SPEAKER_03 48:56

That's right. Well, I try to be responsive. That's the one thing I try to be, and that's the one thing I do, and I try to be really good at follow-ups and stuff like that. And I don't always hit the mark, but I try to be.

SPEAKER_02 49:05

As Mark would say, not 90% of this business is showing up and being responsive. So yeah. Dale, how how can people connect with you?

SPEAKER_03 49:14

They can just reach me at Dale at buddyins.com. Uh, if they want my cell phone number, I'll give it to you. It's 805-490-7621. And uh obviously when I email somebody, uh on the bottom will be a my calendar link. Uh, and you can book an appointment with me if you want to talk. Just just talk about what you're doing. I'm fine with that.

SPEAKER_01 49:40

Awesome. All right, everybody. We appreciate all of you. Thank you so much for being with us today, and hopefully we'll see you next week.

SPEAKER_02 49:48

Thank you. Be well, everybody. Have a good luck.

SPEAKER_01 49:50

Bye bye.