9: Growing a Small Business the Right Way: Why Community Comes Before Expansion

In this episode of Small Business, Big Life: Inside Fort Orange General Store, Joe Slichko and Erica Cubello reflect on a series of recent conversations and experiences that led to one powerful realization:

Not all growth is good growth.

After participating in a pop-up event and reconnecting with past communities, Joe and Erica began to connect the dots between their current business decisions and lessons learned from earlier chapters in their careers.

Joe shares a story from his time as a school principal, where an early attempt to grow enrollment by targeting a new audience failed—not because the idea lacked logic, but because it ignored the school’s core community. It wasn’t until he refocused on the people already invested that real growth began to happen.

Erica reflects on a similar experience with her first business, Seriously Spotless. After expanding into a new market, she quickly realized that stepping away from her original customer base weakened the foundation that had made the business successful in the first place. Returning to that core community meant rebuilding trust—but it ultimately restored the strength of the business.

Together, these experiences shape how they now think about the future of Fort Orange General Store.

They discuss:

•  The difference between expansion and sustainable growth 
•  Why businesses fail when they lose connection to their core audience 
•  How to recognize when an idea isn’t aligned with your foundation 
•  The importance of listening to your community instead of predicting for them 
•  Why not every opportunity is the right opportunity 

As new developments and investment begin to reshape Downtown Albany, Joe and Erica are actively thinking about what growth should look like—not just for their business, but within their community.

Instead of chasing every new idea, they’re choosing to build intentionally, making sure that any future expansion stays connected to the identity and relationships that define Fort Orange General Store.

The conversation also reflects on family life, and what their children are learning by watching these decisions unfold in real time—about work, community, and building something with purpose.

Because in small business, growth isn’t just about getting bigger.

It’s about staying rooted in what made people care in the first place.

Keywords: growing a small business, business expansion strategy, community driven business, local business grow

Transcript

Joe 0:05

Hello and welcome to Small Business, Big Life, Inside Fort Orange General Store, where entrepreneurship meets marriage, kids, and controlled chaos. I'm Joe Slichko, and with me, as always, is my wife, business partner, and owner of Fort Orange General Store, Erica Cubello.

Erica 0:26

Hi, everyone. Thank you so much for that really nice introduction, Joe, as always.

Joe 0:30

You're welcome, Erica. Once again, that's Jeff's favorite part of the podcast, right there. But moving on. In today's episode, we are going to discuss lessons learned from our past and how they are presenting themselves kind of today, but also into some future conversations that we're having. It's something that we're kind of excited to share and talk about, but don't get excited too quickly. Because before we do that, you know we always have to remind you to please like or subscribe wherever you listen to this fun, amazing, hilarious podcast of ours. And do someone a favor, share with them the gift of Gab by sharing either this episode or one of your favorite previous episodes of the podcast.

Erica 1:22

That's right. It means so much to us when you share this episode like our podcast or leave us a comment. We love hearing from you.

Joe 1:31

So now we can jump into it. We had what seemed to be a few unconnected experiences and conversations over the last couple days that after we had time to process last night, actually, we kind of stitched them together and had a little aha moment.

Erica 1:52

Yep.

Joe 1:53

So we wanted to kind of share those stories with our listeners, you all, and hope that at the end it all makes a bunch of sense for all of us, which I think it will.

Erica 2:05

I do too.

Joe 2:06

So why don't we start, Erica, with talking about what we were able to do at the end of last week?

Erica 2:13

All right. So we were asked again to be a pop-up shop at the Albany Capital Center and continuing our partnership with them. And we were a part of the Brewers Conference, uh, the New York State Brewers Conference. So we had the opportunity to meet some really amazing people, have some great conversations that will ultimately lead to some collaborations in the future, which we're so excited to like start beginning to put together and eventually share with everybody. So be on the lookout for those. But we also had an amazing conversation with Monica, who is the CEO of the Albany Capital Center. And we love, love, love talking to her because she always gives us some really good insight and inspiration into how to how to do business.

Joe 3:08

And Monica, I'll say, from my point of view, is probably one of the busiest people in Albany, yeah, in the city. So the fact that she takes time to just talk with us as she's walking through the center, she stopped and we had 30, 45-minute conversation as we were setting up for the day. And every time we get to interact with her and pick her brain and just spitball ideas, we get so, you know, re-injuvenated and excited about, you know, the potential for growth, both in Albany in general and you know, with Fort Orange, with our next set of crazy ideas, you know, all the things.

Erica 3:50

Right, right. It really gives us the opportunity to like bounce ideas and kind of learn from the stories she's telling us and just reconfirm that our ideas are on track, or they're not. And then we take that back and and Joe and I talk about it and reimagine it. But every conversation we have with her, we're just so grateful to be able to do that.

Joe 4:18

So the conversation we had this time went, you know, a number of different directions. It wasn't planned or anything, but we started to talk about businesses and local businesses, some that are doing, you know, amazingly well and how they're planning to expand in the future. But then we also, you know, talked about some of our local businesses that are doing extremely well, but over the course of you know their history kind of either overexpanded or tested a market that didn't work the way they thought, and how they pivoted or pulled back or reimagined, as you said, um, you know, their business model and how they're still successful today, even though not every single idea lands and is the billion-dollar idea that you hope it is.

Erica 5:11

Right. Yes. And that gave us, it took us a couple of days to process all of this, but we finally came to the fact that both of us have done this with our past businesses, business experiences. So Joe and I last night were able to kind of stitch it all together, as Joe said, and make our conversation from the a couple of days ago with Monica come together and make sense of.

Joe 5:39

And before we got to that part, one other thing happened. So there we were on our favorite day of the week, Saturday. Everyone knows we love Saturdays. And we had one of our four children with us, and we were trying to come up with what we were going to do. Mainly, were we cooking or not? You know, we love to do the dinner thing. And Erica said, Hey, I wonder if Kevin's band is playing. Let's, you know, ask him and see what's going on. You all know Kevin, officiant. We had a whole episode dedicated to him. Um, so I reached out to him and he said, Yes, we're playing at 41 restaurant in Lansingburgh. Are you ready for it? And I went, Oh my, here we go. Blast from the past. So my first job as principal, which I talked about before, was at St. Augustine's in Lansingburgh. And it was an amazing experience. I was, you know, very young, taking over, 30 years old, and we had a lot of obstacles in front of us. But the time there was absolutely amazing. And I say that because 41 is right in Lansingburgh. So I assumed I was gonna run into some people, you know, from my past 10, 15 years ago. And that's exactly what happened. We walked in, and right off the bat, you know, there's former parents of mine, and you know, we know the the bartender, and people start coming in, and you know, at first it was a little weird for me, it was a little awkward because I left. Um, the school ended up closing after I left, and that's kind of a sore subject for a lot of people.

Erica 7:27

Yeah, you weren't sure how you were going to be received, right?

Joe 7:30

And at first it did feel a little standoffish, but quickly broke the ice with some people, and then by the end of the night, you know, there was a crowd, and we were talking and laughing and reminiscing and a giant crowd around you.

Erica 7:45

You were like the local celebrity that came back. It was so cute to see.

Joe 7:51

It's such an amazing community, you know. We were talking about this, it's such a tight-knit community that you know, you walk in and you feel at home and welcome.

Erica 8:02

Completely.

Joe 8:02

So, as tight-knit as that community is, they're open and welcome.

Erica 8:07

Yeah. I mean, I have never I've been to Lansingnurgh a handful of times to like go to the snowman, one of our favorite ice cream spots. Uh, but I've never been able to like experience that community, and it felt so welcoming. Like I walked in, I was like, oh my gosh, this is so cute. I love it here.

Joe 8:27

So we get back home and we start talking, and we're stitching together these conversations, of course, talking about how amazing Kevin and North Allen duo was playing their set, amazing as always. And we started to come to a realization that everything was connected, and then the story started flowing. And I thought about my time at St. Augustine's, and one of my immediate lessons learned was when I got there, enrollment was down, we were bleeding money, something needed to change quickly, or we wouldn't have lasted the four years that I was there, let alone, you know, a couple years after. So my grand idea coming in as the outsider was I was going to make St. Augustine's, this little school in Lansingburgh, built in 1869, the highway drop-off school of choice for all the people from up north Saratoga, Clifton Park area on their way to Albany. They were going to drive past the other schools that existed, come to my school, drop their kids off, pay full tuition, and that was going to solve all our problems. And that was not our demographic at the time. We were a, you know, local community school. But for me, that's the vision I saw. And that's what I started to try to market towards.

Erica 10:03

Seems like a really smart idea.

Joe 10:05

Yeah, well, it wasn't at all because I lost sight of who we were.

Erica 10:10

Okay.

Joe 10:11

I lost sight of who we were catering to. I lost sight of the whole purpose that we were, you know, there for in the community that we were actually serving. So once I realized that, mainly because it wasn't working, we weren't getting, you know, this new clientele, if you will, I had to take a step back and say, well, what am I doing? And what should I be doing?

Erica 10:38

I have a question for you. How long did that take you to realize? Do you think?

Joe 10:43

I think it was around December of that first year. So I came in in July. So July to December.

Erica 10:51

That was kind of quick.

Joe 10:52

Well, it needed to be.

Erica 10:53

Yeah.

Joe 10:54

We we didn't have time. We were day-to-day. Sometimes paycheck to paycheck was uh was was tough there.

Erica 11:01

Wow.

Joe 11:02

Yeah.

Erica 11:02

Okay.

Joe 11:02

Yeah, it was tight. So realizing that, taking a step back, looking in the mirror, and then saying, okay, who are we? So then we built a new school board. It's different than you know, a public school board that's elected, you know, it's appointed, so we can kind of, you know, you have more leeway and things like that. And we dug deep into our local community. And that's when the magic happened. And these were the stories that we were telling last night. We all came together, we painted that school together. Yeah, that was a story. Myself, our oldest daughter at the time was three years old. She was there running the halls at night with us, you know, and all their kids were there. And it was just an amazing thing that brought a community together.

Erica 11:54

You started to build your family.

Joe 11:56

Yes. And that's when it started to grow from the inside out. And that's when we increased enrollment. And that's when we were able to get our, you know, huge donations that allowed us to stay open. And it was because of that grassroots effort from the people that believed in it from the inside out that we then started to spread and grow and attract new people. But it was because it was authentic and purposeful and grounded in something.

Erica 12:31

Yeah, you put your heart into it.

Joe 12:32

Exactly.

Erica 12:33

And people saw that.

Joe 12:35

Right. So as I was telling that story, Erica, you started to, you know, gleam a little bit. And I was like, what's going through your head now?

Erica 12:45

Yeah. I started to think about Seriously Spotless and how I started and expanded and kind of had a similar trajectory as Joe did. So when I started Seriously Spotless, it was just myself cleaning a house and that was it. And it grew word of mouth uh because people saw how much I loved it. And eventually I I went into making green cleaning supplies because I felt very strongly about bringing up my first son around chemicals. So, you know, I designed a line of products, blah, blah, blah. I got into some farmers' markets. One in particular was where I found my home base and family, which was Delmar, the Delmar farmers market. And I was there every Saturday morning. I developed a very strong following after a couple of seasons. And then I decided that I wanted to expand because people were just loving everything. So I hired a couple of people to work the Delmar farmers market. And I went over to Troy and did their makers market. And it was fabulous. The business exploded over there. I got so many more people and clients and following. But back in Delmar, I was getting some feedback about like, where's Erica? Why isn't she here? And and people were a little bit hurt by that that I had left and put other people there.

Joe 14:29

And what did that mean for sales in Delmar ?

Erica 14:32

It wasn't going great. It wasn't the sales that I was getting when I was there. And and I get it. Like the I they they felt like I left them. And and I I didn't have that forward thinking in that moment to understand how important that is to be the person there for your people.

Joe 14:55

So once that all kind of culminated for you and you know it made sense to you, what did you decide? What did you end up doing?

Erica 15:03

I realized that I had to go back to Delmar and I could really only do one of those markets well. So I went back to my home, which which was there. And you know, when I got back, um, I had to take a little bit of heat before leaving. And oh, you went over to Troy, the big market, blah, blah, blah. I kind of had to, I had to take a little bit for a minute. And that's okay. I get it. You know, I I deserved that, but it all came back around. And I I had my following back. I saw the people that believed in me from the beginning and I regained their trust.

Joe 15:43

What do you think would have happened if you did the reverse? What do you think would have happened if instead of doing what you did, which as we know kind of landed you where we are today, you know, in the long run, if you stopped going to Delmar because sales were dwindling and one could have assumed that was just because of the times and it is what it is, and you put all of your eggs in the Troy basket. How do you think, you know, looking back, if you could predict the future from that point on, it would have transpired from there?

Erica 16:21

I I think I would have lost my business. Not to say that, you know, anything was wrong with Troy, but I had my home base in Delmar, the people that really cared about me and supported my business from not only the product end, but the beginning of it, where I had my cleaning clients and they also bought my products, and they were the ones that were really there for me.

Joe 16:47

And they spread it word of mouth for you originally in a very organic way. So losing that would have lost your main marketing stream.

Erica 16:57

Exactly. Perfectly said, Joe, because Troy was great. They bought my products. I got a couple of cleaning clients, but it wasn't what Del Mar was, where that was the foundation of my business. And I am forever grateful to the Delmar Farmers Market and all of my clients that still today support me. I still have a handful that I found at the Delmar Market and they're with me 10 years later.

Joe 17:27

That's awesome. So those two conversations about our past, along with the conversation with Monica, kind of were revolving around, you know, what's what's on the horizon? What's next steps? What are things we should be looking at with our crazy ideas in our head? We know Governor Hochul's pumping in her $200 million into downtown Albany, and we've seen the plans for that. And those are so exciting to bring new people into the, you know, the area, into the region, into our like exactly where we are currently located. But we're having conversations of what is that going to mean with construction? What is that gonna mean in the immediacy of the next one to two years versus three to five years versus 10 years plus?

Erica 18:16

Right.

Joe 18:16

And what does that mean for Fort Orange General Store that stands there today? What does that mean for future business opportunities, both new businesses coming in, which we can support, and they can support us, but we also have our own ideas of growth and some really cool things that we're gonna roll out soon, but we won't talk about that just yet. It's a little premature. And where do we go from here? And I think with all of these conversations together, we kind of landed on whatever we do has to come from the inside out, like I said earlier. It has to stream from and through Fort Orange General store. Yes, our core values, our core beliefs, and be a branch off of that, not some random standalone business that's down the street, Joe and Erica's, whatever it is, yeah, and have no tie back to who we are and what we're doing, because then, like we just described in our two past experiences, it's gonna flop because it's not connected.

Erica 19:27

Right. No, that was very well said. We have to look inside and listen to our community and what they want and branch out from there, taking small steps and not overexerting like we might have done in the past, like some of the warning stories we heard, and do it methodically and carefully.

Joe 19:53

And I think one thing you said right there was powerful as well, and it goes back to our last episode of conversations we have with um our customers and our vendors and catering to their needs. Because if we decided one day that Fort Orange was only going to sell candles, and as our customers came in, they were asking for all the other products that we used to sell, and we just kept telling them, No, you want candles, we're selling candles because those three people that one day that came in said, We love your candles, and that's what we're going with, and we're ignoring the rest of the population, that would be a horrible business model.

Erica 20:31

It would.

Joe 20:31

So we're not going to do that. We are going to, like you said, take the small steps, you know, pilot things as they come, but again, do it from within so that if there is growth beyond our walls, it's all going to be connected and it'll be a kind of like a package deal almost, not a one-off. Right. Very purposeful and planned and really analyzing what it is that our business not only wants, but needs. So it's strategic and long-lasting.

Erica 21:10

Because if we learned anything, it's to listen to your community and don't tell them what you think they want.

Joe 21:16

Exactly.

Erica 21:17

And don't try to be what you think they want you to be. Just ask them, they'll tell you. Right. Yeah. It is running a successful business is taking the time to listen.

Joe 21:30

And now we can transition a little bit, even though it's not really a transition, and we did this last episode, too, of the family tie-in and dynamic with that. So for me, I think back to those lessons learned at St. Augustine's. And there was our oldest daughter, two, three years old at the time, running through, you know, the um hallways when we're there late at night. I'm principal there. She starts pre K there, she's in my office. Office four times a day asking me if I got any cupcakes. I'm like, geez, can you ever just stay in your classroom? But she grew up in that environment.

Erica 22:08

Uh-huh.

Joe 22:09

And she still has connections and friendships to this day from St. Augustine. She grew up knowing what community was.

Erica 22:19

Right.

Joe 22:20

And that a job is not just a job that you go to, but it's something that you pour everything you have into because we either all succeed or we all fail together. And that was really cool.

Erica 22:34

Yeah. And that's the same with Seriously Spotless, uh, where the idea of the green cleaning company came from the birth of my first boy. And he came to the markets with me and he saw me develop those relationships with my customers who came back and asked for a different product because they loved this one so much and wanted to try something new. And he saw me grow and overgrow and pull back and brought it, brought it home to what the value of the company was, which was my initial passion, my my love for what I'm doing.

Joe 23:17

And now here we are at Fort Orange, and the other two children, the two youngest respectively, are growing up in this environment. Yep. And they're the two that talk about, you know, their connection to Fort Orange. And you mentioned on a previous podcast how the little one just this is what he knows, this is what he talks about. And my my youngest in the middle talks about it constantly as well, and also sees the connection we talked about going to the circus and you know, putting those connections together. Like this came from Fort Orange. That's why we're here, that's why we're doing this. And it's amazing to watch kind of it all happen again.

Erica 24:01

Yeah, it is. And it's really cool that our oldest, respectively, are seeing it happen again. Um, so the two youngest are seeing the foundation of our second business, and the two older ones are seeing how a second business grows successfully.

Joe 24:25

So, what's your hope for the four of them to take away from our lessons learned as they venture off in the years to come in whatever avenue of life they decide to go down?

Erica 24:41

I want them to just know that their hard work is going to pay off. That if they put themselves and all of themselves into what they believe in and want to do, that it will be noticed.

Joe 24:56

And that it has to be rooted in something bigger than them, it has to be a community-based endeavor almost. You need to mobilize some sort of community in order to get that next level of success. Because if you're going it alone, there's gonna be no one there with you to support you. But if you can nestle yourself in a community, in a cause, in a passion, in a group of people that are like-minded or just as simple as you all share, you know, a same passion or a same dream and you can capitalize on that. Community can have multiple different meanings, but without that, you're just a person doing something on your own, maybe with a product, maybe with a service, and you may hit some level of success, but I don't think you'll hit that next level if you're not rooted in something a little bit deeper.

Erica 25:59

You're right. And thank you for expanding on that idea, Joe. That is exactly perfectly said with how Seriously Spotless grew, how St. Augustine's grew, and how now Fort Orange is growing.

Joe 26:14

Well, thank you for that, Erica. And I think this is the perfect time to end this podcast and begin our farewell statements.

Erica 26:23

That was really creepily said, Joe. Our farewell statement. Thank you very much to all of our listeners for tuning in this week and following the pod and listening to our story. We cannot tell you how much it means to hear your feedback, to to hear somebody say, Oh my gosh, I know you from the podcast. Like it really, really means more than we can put into words.

Joe 26:54

And I'll give one last pitch to please leave some comments, share your thoughts, your feelings. Tell us something you agree with, tell us something you disagree with, and we will bring it up on the show and have a little banter about that back and forth as well.

Erica 27:12

Yes. You know, we like our silly banter uh from the last episode.

Joe 27:18

So, once again, thank you all for listening, and we look forward to sharing our lives with you once again on Small Business Big Life inside Fort Orange General Store.