11: Managing Employees in a Small Business: When to Lead, When to Step In, and Do It Yourself

In this episode of Small Business, Big Life: Inside Fort Orange General Store, Joe Slichko and Erica Cubello talk through a real and ongoing challenge of small business ownership:

Managing people while still being responsible for the work itself.

As their business continues to grow, so does the complexity of working with a team. But unlike larger organizations, there’s no clear separation between leadership and execution. When something needs to get done, the decision isn’t always whether to delegate—it’s whether to step in.

Joe and Erica reflect on what it looks like to manage employees in real time, while also maintaining the standards and expectations they’ve set for the business.

They discuss:

•  The balance between leading a team and doing the work yourself 
•  Recognizing when to step back—and when to step in immediately 
•  The responsibility of ownership when things aren’t going as expected 
•  How fast-paced environments change the way you manage people 
•  Navigating communication, expectations, and follow-through 
•  Why small business leadership often looks different than traditional management 

The conversation stays grounded in real scenarios inside the store—moments where decisions have to be made quickly, without overthinking or overexplaining. In those moments, leadership becomes less about process and more about presence.

Joe reflects on the challenge of managing outcomes while still being part of the day-to-day operations, while Erica shares how maintaining the energy and flow of the store often requires jumping in without hesitation.

Together, they unpack the reality that in a small business, ownership doesn’t sit on the sidelines. It shows up in the middle of the work—whether that means guiding, adjusting, or doing it yourself to keep things moving.

As always, the conversation connects back to life outside the store. With four kids and a full schedule, the weight of these decisions doesn’t stay at work. It becomes part of the rhythm of their everyday lives.

This episode offers an honest look at what it really means to lead a team in a small business—where the line between manager and doer is never fully separate.

Because sometimes leadership isn’t about stepping back.

It’s about stepping in.

Keywords: managing employees small business, small business leadership, retail team management, entrepreneurship leadership, business ownership reality, working with employees, Fort Orange General Store, small business podcast

Transcript

Joe 0:06

Hello and welcome to Small Business Big Life inside Ford Orange General Store, where entrepreneurship meets marriage, kids, and controlled chaos. I'm Joe Slichko, and with me, as always, is my wife, business partner, and the owner of Fort Orange General Store, Erica Cubello.

Erica 0:31

Hey everyone, what's up?

Joe 0:33

In today's episode, Erica, we are going to discuss spring break Fort Orange style.

Erica 0:43

Yes, the most fun spring break you will ever have.

Joe 0:48

But before we get into that hilarity, although this is episode 11, and we have conquered our first 10 episodes with over a thousand downloads already, we still have to ask all our subscribers, all our listeners, that is, to please like or subscribe, hit that button, smash it as they say, share this with a friend, do all the things to help us out, please.

Erica 1:15

That would be excellent because we still are a small emerging podcast and we really need your support.

Joe 1:23

And of course, we thank you very much for the support you've given us thus far to get us where we are today.

Erica 1:30

That's right. We would not be at 11. We would not have hit over a thousand downloads. So thank you very much to every single person who has listened just once or maybe every week since the beginning. And you know what, Joe? That's a cool story that I heard over spring break.

Joe 1:49

Well, why don't we start there? Tell your story, Erica.

Erica 1:53

So I met this awesome couple that came in. They were so excited to be at the store. They've been at our store over the years, but they were really so sweet and cute and were excited to meet me and be at the store because they said that they listened to our podcast and have listened to our podcast since the first episode dropped.

Joe 2:17

That's awesome to hear. Did they have anything to say about maybe one of the co-hosts?

Erica 2:23

They liked me more.

Joe 2:26

Well, I'm sure they had other things to share with us.

Erica 2:30

No, they did. They said that they loved listening to our show and thought it was really cool that we talk about what it is like to run a small business in the inside scoop. And that's kind of what we're delivering today with our spring break edition.

Joe 2:47

Yes, it is. So, right before spring break happened, we kind of embarked on part of the journey of the entrepreneur, where, well, let's take the saying April showers bring May flowers. When it rains, it pours.

Erica 3:04

Oh, yes, it does.

Joe 3:05

That kind of happened to us from a multitude of dimensions.

Erica 3:11

Let's get into it, Joe.

Joe 3:14

So, one of the beauties of owning a business, being a boss, what have you, is employees and hiring employees and growing employees, yep, and retaining employees, and then having them decide that they're going on to other pastures at a moment's notice.

Erica 3:40

Other pastures.

Joe 3:41

Which in and of itself it's the circle of life.

Erica 3:46

Right.

Joe 3:46

It's what you sign up for. And then there are those moments, which I call spring, where it always seems like several employees find their different pastures.

Erica 4:00

Yeah, you're right. I agree with that. It does kind of feel like this happens like a spring refresh every year.

Joe 4:08

Spring refresh. Yes. And that gears you up for summer, and then you have your summer help come in and rinse and repeat it all happens again. It does. However, this all happened kind of abruptly and from two different fronts at the same time.

Erica 4:24

Yep, it did. I don't, I'm kind of speechless right there because it's exactly true. We own two businesses, and both of them went through a spring refresh at the same time.

Joe 4:40

And let's say they were unexpected.

Erica 4:43

Yeah.

Joe 4:44

And right before, you know, Easter. And I was also going through some difficulties at work, um, my other job, with just you know, nothing major but staffing issues.

Erica 4:58

Let's say you've been feeling it for a little while.

Joe 5:00

So it all kind of hit at the same moment.

Erica 5:03

Yep.

Joe 5:04

And in non-professional settings, you don't always get the notice that you want.

Erica 5:11

Exactly.

Joe 5:12

And that notice can be two weeks, and that two weeks can turn into tomorrow, which is generally the case when someone in retail or someone in the cleaning business gives their notice, you just start to cringe because you know it's it's ended. Rarely going to make it that full.

Erica 5:31

Right.

Joe 5:32

Yeah.

Erica 5:32

Yep. And that happened three times to us within uh pretty much a week uh of everybody. So it was it's been very stressful and very overwhelming to say the least. I think I've had a breakdown every day that you've kind of had to help me get over. And I'm sorry that you had to be the bearer of my mental anguish, but um, it is it's stressful. There's no two ways about it: owning a business, owning two businesses. You're dealing with, like you just said, multiple employees, and you've got your principal job. So that's like a whole world in itself. So you're really handling three. And um, yeah, it's overwhelming. And when you've got three people that give their two weeks' notice and then, you know, get mad because you ask them to be on top of their game, right? Because that's what you talked about. We want to grow everybody, and we're not gonna hold you to lower standards just because like it's still our business that we are putting on the line um that we, you know, are wanting to keep held to high standards. So just because you've decided to move on doesn't mean we expect any less from you.

Joe 7:04

You're absolutely right with that. And I think let's start with seriously spotless. So that's the cleaning company. And it's one of those situations where, you know, schedule-wise, you're booked out a month, two months in advance.

Erica 7:19

We're pretty, you know, I'm booked out book solid, like a year in advance, really, when it comes down to it, because we have our weekly, every two-week and every four-week appointments. So, you know, when people get on our schedule, they're signing up for an indefinite amount of time. It's not like, oh, I'm gonna try you out and then maybe I'll book next. It's no, we're looking for help. We depend on you to help us. All of my clients have come to me for, you know, a reason, right? They're either unable to care for their home anymore, they are working moms and dads with families, multiple things happening, and they depend on that help. So when I have to tell them bad news that, hey, I can't send anybody today, that is such an embarrassing moment. It feels like my stomach has been ripped out from my body. I hate delivering any sort of bad news because it feels like a reflection of me.

Joe 8:33

And I think that's the entrepreneurial spirit right there. When, you know, we take it personally because it is us, it's yeah, it's your needs that our need.

Erica 8:42

Exactly, right. Yep. And I don't deliver bad service. I never want to deliver bad service. But unfortunately, the role that I play in both of these businesses is the boss role, and I cannot be the person on the front line doing the service anymore. I am the one who manages it, who maintains it, who does all the behind-the-scene work, right? And I need to have reliable, honest workers to go out there and deliver the kind of service that I would if I was in somebody's home. That's how I built the business, right? Like I started it, I know what I want. My customers have come to expect that level of service, and I don't want to deliver anything less.

Joe 9:33

No, you're absolutely right with that. And although you just said, you know, your role has changed, and you're absolutely right for the last three weekends. Yep, you and I, normally with a child or two in tow, yep, have been picking up the Slack.

Erica 9:50

And so we do our full-time day jobs, and then because I have promised a recurring service and I don't want to let everyone down, I am trying to go in and deliver the service that people have signed up for in our free time, right? Our quote unquote free time. So Joe has been gracious enough to come and help, and we're getting it done. You know, we we own the business, we we don't want to just say sorry and throw our hands up, we can't help you, we have no one. That's not my work ethic. I'm I'm not gonna do that if I can be there to, you know, provide the service.

Joe 10:34

And I'll say for me, you know, not having a real tie to the cleaning industry before I met you. Like it was never anything I did. It was never anything I, you know, really thought about. There's a sense of pride when I walk out of those buildings, those offices. And like that's a tangible, in the moment, instant gratification that I didn't expect.

Erica 11:01

Yeah, no, cleaning is very therapeutic and you do start to take ownership of the space that you're working in. And it's a beautiful job. Like when you have clients that you go and help every two weeks, every month, you start to become part of their family. And they look at you the same way, like they're really depending on you. So whether it's my service or the person going in and working in the home, you know, there's there's this relationship. It's kind of like symbiotic, I would say, right? Because you, like you just talked about, start to form this attachment over the space, your work, how you're proud and you feel. And then they look at that in reverse, like they depend on you to be there and help and be a part of the family, pretty much, right?

Joe 11:56

Absolutely. And it's making me think of something kind of in the moment here. So in career and technical education, we have industry partners coming in all the time, telling their stories, getting the kids excited, um, you know, making those connections with them. And the pride that a lot of them have and speak of, whether it's, you know, our building trades, our plumbers, our welders coming in, you know, HVAC, autoservices, you know, whatever it is, they talk about the things they they do. And I remember hearing, I think it was um one of the local unions for construction or masonry when they came in. And they're talking to the kids about, you know, their craft, and they referenced a building, and I can't remember which one at the moment. I apologize for that, but the way they said that's my building, I built that, yeah, and the pride that came out of that, it was very powerful. And now hearing you just kind of recount that story, you know, that we just told, it's it's kind of clicking for me that there is that ownership, and there is that, you know, that's mine and that's tangible, and my you know, fingerprint is on that, my name is on that and that workmanship. And I don't know, it's impressive and it's making me very prideful right now.

Erica 13:22

Well, thank you that for saying that and making that connection because I I think that in those moments where I am like really in a panic about somebody calling out and not being able to deliver the service, and I have to deliver that bad news, I feel like sometimes there's a disconnect for you. Like you understand it's hard, but that's that's what I'm feeling in those moments where I am so prideful. It sounds kind of bad, I guess, but like I take such ownership over helping my customers. And when I can't deliver that and have to deliver the bad news, it really takes a a toll on me emotionally. I just I it really hurts.

Joe 14:10

Yes, I know it does. You know, it hits you from you know multiple levels, and it's definitely an emotional thing for you. Let's transition now and talk a little bit about Ford Orange General store where something similar happened. But thankfully, right, we have an amazing employee, other amazing employees. One in particular, Chris, has really stepped up and taken a lot of the shifts and did so, you know, out of the kindness of his heart, and is really helping the situation along while we're looking for that, you know, the replacement or replacements to come.

Erica 14:51

Right. Yes, yes, Chris. He is amazing and we love him so much as part of our Ford Orange team. So one of our other employees kind of gave us hints that she was looking, right? And that's natural. Of course, like this is only a part-time job. We don't expect you to live here forever. But then, you know, she gave us notice two weeks, and I'm gonna start my new job that I got hired for. Great, congratulations. So happy for you. Of of course, we want that for our people. Like, we don't want to hold you back, we want to see you grow. But we're still gonna hold you to the same standard until your last day of work. So, you know, I gave the same daily tasks that are expected on every shift, and it wasn't received so well. And that employee decided she couldn't do it that day and was just gonna leave for the day and be done. Turned in her keys on the spot. Thankfully, Chris was there to pick up the slack and close the store for us, and you know, it wasn't a problem that we had to handle immediately in the moment, but you know, it really comes down to our people, right? And who we have representing our businesses.

Joe 16:19

Correct. And, you know, we have a responsibility. Of course, we have a responsibility to, you know, our employees to make sure that they have a you know safe environment to work in, yeah, and that they're trained, of course, but we also have a responsibility to our customers to give them the best customer service, to make them feel welcome and feel like they belong and feel like we appreciate them coming in every day when they do. Yes, and one of the most amazing things about our store, and I alluded to this in one of our first episodes, is our HVAC system, it pumps out so much dust, so much dust. I've changed the filters, I've done all the things, so feel free to leave all those comments about how I'm not doing the things and what the upkeep, but I am, I'm trying.

Erica 17:07

But it's an old building, yeah.

Joe 17:09

Like every two days, it's like, oh my god, we just cleaned this. It looks like we haven't, you know.

Erica 17:15

Yeah, no, no. It's really important to keep up on all those details. I mean, that that's what makes customer service, you know. It's not just the talking, it's not just what's on our shelves, it's how things are presented.

Joe 17:29

And again, we can't thank Chris enough for what he's doing, but there's also only so much he can do because he's, you know, of course, one person. So there is a lot of slack that over our lovely spring break here, um, you picked up and I picked up.

Erica 17:45

Of course.

Joe 17:46

Because once he agreed to take a bunch of shifts, it was like nine days in a row. No, and that's like Chris, you can't do that. You're gonna you're gonna go crazy.

Erica 17:53

He tried to downplay it, and I was like, no, you gotta have a day off, even if it's only four hours a day, you know, it it still takes a toll. So I've been at the store with my oldest, and you know, that was a great learning opportunity for him. We spent a couple hours training him how to talk to people.

Joe 18:14

So let's talk about that. So there we are, and you know, we're picking up some extra shifts, and because of that, we have to, you know, schedule on the fly and do some things differently and tag you out so you know you can run the errand that's scheduled, you know, all the things of life and practices and drop-offs and pickups and you know, all the fun things. So here we are, we have our nine-year-old down there with us, and just like we would for anyone else, just like I would, you know, my other job as principal, customer service is key. And from very first person you meet walking into the building to you know, my secretarial staff to everyone we interact with. It's all about customer service. Everyone's there for a reason. We're in the service industry, whether it's education, whether it's retail, whether it's cleaning, it's all service industry. So we're trying to instill that in him and you know, teach him at nine years old, which is, you know, understandably, he's a kid, and start to kind of put those things in his head because he loves to work there. And we mentioned that before. So he wants to interact with the customers and he wants to cash everybody out, but he's also nine years old, right? So there's some teaching that has to happen.

Erica 19:32

Yes.

Joe 19:33

How'd that go, Erica?

Erica 19:36

Well, it was, I think, a tough learning curve for him because he's also a perfectionist and really wants to do everything right the first time. And it's hard for him to take criticism as it is for a lot of people. But, you know, he did it. And the first the first couple times were tough, and we had to, you know, go through it a bunch with him. But the customers were so awesome and really nice to see the customers reacting to him and thanking him, and he gets a lot of, you know, joy and positive reinforcement out of that. So it it was just really beautiful to see it all play out from him greeting people at the door to asking if they need any help, to then cash them out and say, how was everything today? And then hand them a bag and thank them and see you soon. So in the end, it all worked out beautifully.

Joe 20:34

All right. So that is a 100% typical Erica story right there. Now, can we talk about what actually happened and the experiences that our amazing customers just went with because they're so awesome and so cool.

Erica 20:49

Yeah. A few of them had to deal with like the harshness of him saying, Is that it?

Joe 20:57

Now, let's preface multi-step directions are a little difficult for him. We know that we work with him on that. That's a known fact.

Erica 21:07

Yeah.

Joe 21:07

So when we give him this task or he asked for the task, right, you know, there's a lot of things you have to do when you check out in a retail store. And he was very cognizant of trying to do all of those things in the right order.

Erica 21:23

Yes. And again, like you said, he's nine, like giving a nine-year-old all of these tasks in a row and asking him to be friendly and personable and have conversation. Like he he was getting caught up in going through the motions and doing everything right. And he's nervous. So it was really sweet how our customers were so gracious and kind and worked with him, trying to learn the process.

Joe 21:54

And it's also funny because Erica has a certain style, a certain way that she interacts. With customers, I have a certain way that I interact with customers. If I tried to be Erica and interact in her manner, I think someone would call the cops on me because it would come off as creepy and just weird. And if Erica tried my way, I don't even know. Maybe the world would implode.

Erica 22:20

I'd come across really rude, I think.

Joe 22:25

We're just gonna gloss over that one. Um, so there he is trying to listen to both of our, you know, both of our ideas of how to approach a situation, and he's just like, I I got nothing.

Erica 22:40

I know.

Joe 22:41

So instead of the customer coming up and oh, did you find everything you were looking for today? Is there anything else? Like, are you ready? Like some sort of conversation like that. Is that it?

Erica 22:53

Yeah, I know.

Joe 22:55

That's that's all you're getting.

Erica 22:57

Yeah.

Joe 22:59

And he meant it from like the sweetest place, but it did not come across that way.

Erica 23:04

No, it didn't. And it took him a little bit to understand that. But in the end, after a lot of conversation, he got comfortable enough to just kind of figure it out his own way. Like, you're not trying to be me, you're not trying to be Joe, just be you because you're amazing when you're just you. That eventually showed through.

Joe 23:25

And I think that goes back to the point of could we have just said no, you're not doing this anymore? We got it. Of course. But what's our purpose now? What's our role? What are we doing? I don't know, in life in general, I guess, but as you know, small business owners, one of our roles is to grow our people. He's one of our people, he is, just like Chris is, and just like our other employees are.

Erica 23:53

Yep.

Joe 23:53

And to bring them from where they are, wherever that is, to where we need them to be and where we know they can be.

Erica 24:02

Right.

Joe 24:03

And sometimes people don't like that because they don't want that extra responsibility, even though you can see that in them.

Erica 24:11

Yes.

Joe 24:11

Um, and they push back a little bit. Other times they are extremely grateful. Like I've was throughout my education journey when people would tap me for things and I would say, Why me? That doesn't make any sense. I'm not ready for that. That's not me. And they would say, Joe, we see it in you.

Erica 24:28

Yeah. You know, yeah, it's it can be really hard and overwhelming to be asked to take on more. It can also be really upsetting and like defeating if you are not asked to. So knowing that balance and being able to see a person where they are and get them to the next level is a a strength of our own.

Joe 24:56

Absolutely. And one of the things that I'm worried about is we're gonna burn Chris out because you know, he's really good at what he does, and he's there willing and able to help us out. And one of my very, very early mentors in education once told me, he said, Joe, never get too good at your job. And I was like, Well, what do you mean by that? He goes, Because when you're good, they're gonna keep piling things on you and they're gonna bury you, and you're not gonna get the extra money for it, and you're not gonna get any recognition for it. You're just gonna be the guy that they go to, dump it on, and you figure it out.

Erica 25:32

Yeah, I never want to do that to somebody, and I know exactly what you're talking about. I've felt like I've been in those positions before, too. So I do think that we are both very cognizant of that happening.

Joe 25:47

Absolutely. I I think I'll share one more story.

Erica 25:50

Okay.

Joe 25:51

Last year I'm, you know, at work doing the thing, and one of the other divisions had lost their administrator, and that division happens to be in my building. So my boss's boss, I think you guys all know Jeff is my boss. Hi, Jeff. And our boss, Karen, who absolutely love, great human being, what a leader. And it's funny, I was telling her this story last week when we were going through all that stuff, and she didn't realize the impact this this made.

Erica 26:24

Uh-huh.

Joe 26:24

So at that moment in time last year, I was having a conversation with her, and I said, Karen, if we need to take this over for a little bit, I think we're in a good spot right now where you know, we could step in, I could run both things, I have enough, you know, help. I can breathe a little bit. And if you need, you know, our help, we're here for you. And of course, she thanked me, but then she said, I'm not gonna do that to you. And I kind of pause for a second, and you know, you start to feel all the feels. Why? Am I not good enough? Am I not this? Am I not that? And then she said, You're here for the long haul. That's why we brought you in, and you're here to take care of your people. And if I were to put you in this position, I know you would kill it, but it would burn you out. You wouldn't be able to take care of your people like you are right now, right? And that hit me like a ton of bricks, and I think I teared up in that moment, which I'm not a crier, but I was treated like a human being.

Erica 27:25

Yeah, I feel like that's exactly right. That's that's the sign of a very wise leader. And you did come home and tell me that story and say that exactly those words that you kind of teared up, and you had never been treated with that kind of respect, humanity, uh, any of that in in your professional settings before. It's always been do this, do this, do this. Okay, now do this, do this, do this. That's an amazing leader right there.

Joe 28:00

Yeah, yeah. I'm very lucky and very appreciative. So to Chris, we're not gonna do that to you. We're not gonna let you burn out, buddy.

Erica 28:10

No, no, we are not.

Joe 28:12

So I think on that note, Erica, we've shared enough of our amazing spring break, which really came down to a lot of work.

Erica 28:19

It was, but I think it was a good spring break. I mean, we got to spend quality time at our business with our family, you know, teaching the trade of customer service. I wouldn't say it was a bad spring break because of that at all. It was it was nice. I enjoyed it.

Joe 28:42

So for a little bit of our own therapy, why don't our listeners drop us some comments about what they did on spring break and then we can laugh at them and commiserate a little bit as we compare it to what we did.

Erica 28:54

I really don't think we're that far off from many people because being at the store this week with the time off, I saw a lot of kids with their parents just running errands. I feel like that's where we are right now. Um, for a lot of reasons. You know, things are really expensive. People can't go away like they used to. But I mean, what do I know? Maybe other people do have, and I'm just trying to like bury my head in the stand and say it's not that bad. Tell us about your fabulous spring break, please.

Joe 29:29

And as always, we thank you for listening to

Erica 29:33

Small Business Big Life inside Fort Orange General Store.