Massive Boulder Blast Update + Can Managers Be Friends With Board Members?

A routine HOA-area blast turned into a nightmare when huge rocks crashed into homes, damaged association property, and triggered major insurance, liability, and communication issues. In this livestream recording, we revisit one of the most shocking HOA incidents discussed this year and break down what happened next. Were the homes repaired? Who ended up paying? What did the insurance process look like? What should managers and boards do immediately after a disaster like this?

YouTube Video: https://youtu.be/gaXNpfrbMrw

CEU Video - HOA Blast Update + Are Manager–Board Friendships Appropriate On-Demand 1 hour, All Day Apr 21, 2026 12:00 AM EDT at: https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/register/9164698152445669470

This session is especially valuable for HOA managers, condo board members, community association leaders, and anyone involved in property management, insurance claims, reserve planning, risk management, or resident communication. The discussion covers real-world lessons about emergency response, documentation, inspections, owner updates, disaster planning, and how fast a community can spiral if the wrong steps are taken.

Then the conversation shifts to a topic that hits just as close to home: can HOA managers and board members really be friends? It sounds harmless, but this is where perception, favoritism concerns, gossip, influence, and professional boundaries can create serious problems. The panel discusses when being friendly crosses the line, how optics affect trust, and what managers should do to protect their neutrality and credibility.

This recording includes practical takeaways on: HOA disaster response, community association insurance issues, claims handling, liability questions, owner communication, manager professionalism, board relationships, and avoiding hidden conflicts.

Original livestream referenced in this program: “HOA Hit by 45 pound Rocks!”
https://youtu.be/9UCgBm4-EsU

Hosted by AssociationHelpNow® | Practical insights for managers and boards who live this every day.

PANEL:

Raymond Dickey • www.AssociationHelpNow.com

Dawn Becker-Durnin, CIRMS • Acrisure • dbecker-durnin@acrisure.com • www.HOAInsuranceSC.com

Chris Petrik, CMCA, AMS, PCAM • Bulle Rock Community Association • chris.Petrik@FSResidential.com • www.bullerockcommunity.com

Chris Lozier, CMCA • Ponderosa Management LLC • clozier@pm-llc.com

This content does not constitute professional advice.

#HOA #HOADisaster #PropertyManagement #CommunityAssociation #CondoAssociation #HOAInsurance #InsuranceClaims #RiskManagement #DisasterPlanning #HOABoard #AssociationManagement #CommunityManagers #ProfessionalBoundaries #BoardMemberRelations #CondoManagement #HOALiability

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

But all right, I'm ready to start. Hi, Ray Dickey from South Carolina, Hudson Valley CI and Association Help Now. We are in a lot of different states. I appreciate you being here. We are going to do bombed by rocks. Chris's Patrick's property was bombed by rocks. We did another segment on that. Oh, I forgot to put the link in the description, but if anybody wants it, just let me know. And then we're going to do whether managers and boards members could be friends. Whether managers and board members can be friends. And I'm not, I didn't want to have a lawyer on for this one because I just want to talk about what everyone's feelings are. So I'm really hoping, audience, that you're going to participate. Audience, everyone has a question. Oh, thanks. Everybody, some people like the topic. Thank you. Everyone has a question feature. That's how you communicate with us today. Please communicate. I love it. It makes the program so much uh better. You should feel very comfortable because I'll relay the information for you and I don't use anyone's names. I could make a mistake. So don't send me anything too top secret. This is how we're also going to start doing the CEUs because these recorded versions have become very popular. So if you're here for CEUs, use the question feature and just put in CEUs. And you'll need to do that two more times today. So whether you're here live right now, which is March 17th, or you're watching the recorded version for CEUs, you're need you're going to need to keep an eye on this and enter CEUs. So we can let CIMICB know you're here. With that being said, I am going to have our panel introduce themselves with who I see first. And that is Chris Loiser.

SPEAKER_03 1:39

Chris Loiser, CMCA AMS. I'm located in the Myrtle Beach area. I'm an association manager.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

Chris, how can I differ between you and Chris Patrick? Tony, like I know Chris, I'm going to call personal like Rock, Rock Chris, right? Because it's it's so cool. Do you do you want to think about it? I'll come back to you.

SPEAKER_03 2:00

Uh you I grew up because Chris was such a popular name for people our age. So everybody always called me by my last name. So you can call me Lojger if you want.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Okay, that sounds good. All right. Well, Chris Rock doesn't sound good either, but go ahead, Chris.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Yeah, so you're you're dating us, Chris. Um, so Chris Patrick, I'm a large-scale community association manager here in Maryland, uh, with First Service Residential and uh community. Um not quite built out yet. Uh at build out it'd be around 2,000 homes right now. We're we're close around 1,500.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

Don, before you introduce yourself, do you know that Chris has become like a celebrity? Chris Patrick, now he's like talking all over the place and everything. He's like in demand. Like he's probably not even gonna come on the live streams anymore. He's becoming so popular. But go ahead, Dawn.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

My name is Don Vecard Dernan, and I'm an insurance agent. I specialize in community associations, and I also have my CERMS designation. I am with Acrashure, we're a national as well as international retail private insurance agency. And our group really looks at focusing on employee benefits, property and casualty, and all types of other insurance products.

SPEAKER_02 3:15

All right, so Dawn, get everybody excited before Chris starts talking, like kind of get everybody pumped up at what a big deal this was. Chris will fill everybody in, but get them all excited because these these weren't pebbles.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

These are huge rocks, right? This is an explosion. This was crazy. Pandemonium.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

All right, well, you got a little bit better there. Audience, Chris is gonna tell you. Imagine like Pompeii. Okay. Chris, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

I mean, Pompeii's a little far-fetched, but um on a on a on a smaller scale, um, you know, I mean, it was your typical September fall afternoon on a Friday around 3 3 30 in the afternoon. Our developer had hired a third-party blast company uh to come in and clear some some rock uh so they could start uh you know grading some areas of a particular parcel. Um, and this has been done numerous times throughout the community uh for the last 18 years since it's been in development. And uh this particular instant um was only about a quarter of a mile from our residence club, not even a quarter of a mile, maybe a little bit closer. Anyways, um, you would have thought that a bomb went off. Uh our residence club is about 40,000 square feet. Uh things came off of the walls, the entire building shook. Um and uh it was it was something that I I definitely did not have my on my bingo card for for that Friday afternoon. And uh yeah, I mean that's that's the what happened. I don't know, Ray, if you want to.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

Yeah, let me let me let me I think it was a lot bigger of a deal than that. So yeah, this is kind of what happened. It's a beautiful sunny day, right? Chris, it was a beautiful day, right? It was. And this construction company has been doing these blasts, like Chris said, for years next door, and there's not much goes on. But Chris, from what he told me, heard this huge explosion, much, much larger than he's heard before. And were you were were you there, Chris, at that time, or you were coming, you were coming in, right?

SPEAKER_01 5:30

You heard from No, I mean I was I was here in my office. Okay, yeah, yeah. Usually when when these things happen, if they do it right, you shouldn't hear or feel anything at all because there's blast maps that go down, there's certain things in place.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

But this is a huge explosion. And by the way, Chris Loiser, I like to tell people that Chris was sunbathing. He says he was working, it's debatable. I imagine him on a lawn chair sunbathing. This explosion is huge. Huge. And then Chris, give people an idea what you start hearing from residents.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Yeah, so I mean, you know, in a situation like that, you know, clearly not many managers uh have been through something like this. So you very quickly in your head start to think, what do I do? And you know, so the the first thing that I did was I went to the the particular neighborhood where this was happening because right across the street from this parcel uh were already established homes that were built um, you know, at the inception of Bully Rock. And um, you know, so so as I as I'm walking the the street, uh, you know, it's it I'm looking uh down at you know the road and the the turf and different areas. It is like meteorites hit everywhere and just lodge themselves into the ground. And uh, you know, looking at videos that people had had sent me. I mean, again, I don't know why people were out taking videos when they know that there's going to be a blast going on. Um, but uh some of these rocks uh went very, very high in the sky, uh extremely high, gained a lot of velocity uh on their way down. Some some of the rocks were well over 40 pounds, um, you know, large diameter. Uh literally, I believe we had over 20, 25 uh homes that were impacted, some worse than others, but uh some of these larger rocks went straight down through people's roofs, uh through their kitchens, down into their basements. Some narrowly missed hitting people inside their homes. Luckily, nobody was was actually injured. Uh I mean, otherwise, you know, we'd be having a much different conversation here. That's like a miracle. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, and then of course, there was you know, damage to our tennis courts and our parking lot, and you know, uh multiple vehicles were hit. Uh, so it was it was quite the quite the scene.

SPEAKER_02 8:14

So also Chris sent me a lot of photos. Chris Lizer, this wasn't like Chris isn't saying it was one 40-pound rock and the rest were pebbles. 40 pounds just happened to be the biggest rock. It worked its way down from there. There was rocks. Go ahead, Chris. Talk about, I want people to understand this wasn't like one big rock and everything else was pedal.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

This was like a war zone. No, yeah. We um I mean our tennis courts were were littered with uh with these you know rocks just embedding themselves into the into the surface. Um our uh uh homes on the other side of where my residence club is located were also hit. Um, I mean, it was probably thousands of rocks. I mean you have to think when they're when they're blasting a site like this, uh just the the the sheer force of you know uh what they use to to ignite this was was just crazy. And uh, you know, so it it's uh it was it was mayhem there for for the first 48 hours, I would say. Uh, but the the you know the most important thing to do was just to get out to the to the street that was that was impacted the the most and that was closest to the impact, see how the owners were. Luckily, for me, the association does not own that particular parcel, and I'm sure Don can get into that a little bit more. Um, so this was all developer-owned property, but of course, part of it, you know, was was you know owners coming to me and my management team saying, What are you going to do about this? Why did you let this happen? Why did did you let this blast occur and damage our homes? Why so very yeah, so very quickly, you know, it turned into you know educating the owners and letting them know that, hey, listen, while the HOA is not directly responsible for this, we will do everything in our power to help coordinate and help work with you, um, you know, to you know, see you through this process. So very quickly, um, after you know assessing what had gone on, uh, you know, the I I called my insurance company to let them know.

SPEAKER_02 10:29

Hold on.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

Yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

But what so I want to make sure we leave plenty of time for the insurance because that's why we're like here today. So, you know, and anybody that's interested in all the details, send me, I'll send you the link, and there's photos there and everything else. But just to picture the scene, there's broken windows in people's homes. Chris is not exaggerating. One giant rock almost killed the lady. It went through the roof, through the kitchen, through the countertop, and landed in the basement. Cars are damaged, uh tennis courts are damaged. These are not little rocks. This is literally like like a war, like a war zone, basically. So, Chris, people can go to the get all the rest of the details, but you basically dealt with all the stuff you had to deal with, right? You were answering questions. Can you just kind of like get us up to the point with the insurance, but so we can get to that part?

SPEAKER_01 11:17

Like Yeah, I mean, it's like you almost have to, you know, triage everything and just kind of you know set up your your priorities of of what you have to do. And you know, a big thing, you know, like like like you said, we'll we'll get into it with Don was you know, just at least putting our insurance company on notice uh at first to let them know what was going on. Contacted our uh association attorney, uh Hillary, uh, with Reese Broom to let her know what was going on. Contacted, you know, my regional director, our uh you know, president of our region as well to let everyone know what was going on, our board. Um, and then you know, uh a big thing was I wanted to get a message out to the community, but I wanted to make sure that I had the correct information before just randomly you know sending out uh a message because I didn't want to create more questions than give answers. So uh the very next morning on on you know Saturday morning, the developer who hired the third-party blast company met with me in my office. We contacted uh the explosives company uh to just go over everything that happened uh just to make sure that we were all on the same page, and then we were able to create a message that went out to the entire community. And uh, as you can imagine, uh we just gave updates. We kept giving updates for a couple weeks after uh the whole event uh occurred just to keep people's minds at ease and try and answer those questions before they were asked.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

And then, Chris, just so people know too, Chris is an excellent manager. He's highly experienced, he's managed high rises, big properties. This community that Chris is part of is is a beautiful community, top-notch community. So they were lucky to have someone like Chris. Chris basically um knew exactly what to do and how to handle it. And Chris, I remember saying how concerned you were about the residence. You felt bad about it because people were traumatized.

SPEAKER_01 13:10

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, in our jobs, we have to have empathy, right? I mean, we're like this is like what if we live here? Like, what how would we want to be treated? Uh, what are the questions that we're gonna have? Uh, what are the next steps? And uh, you know, just have to keep that in mind.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

So, Chris goes through all that, Chris Loiser. He takes care of everything, he takes care of his employees, you know, he he just does everything actually perfectly. Seriously, Chris is like one of those people, Chris Lazer.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

On the surface, right? Right?

SPEAKER_02 13:36

I mean it probably is a scam, it probably is just on the on the surface.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

But anyway, we made a lot of mistakes to get to this point.

SPEAKER_02 13:42

Okay. Who the heck? So just quickly, Chris, who were the parties involved in this? And then let's go to maybe Dawn or and figure out. I'm so curious what happened and who paid for what.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

Yeah, so I mean, primarily, I mean, you know, clearly we have all of the we we directed in our in our correspondence to the community and especially those that were impacted. We we sent separate messages to those folks that were impacted to give them all of the insurance information for the blast company. We told them to go ahead and file claims with their homeowner's insurance first because and and let the insurance companies battle it out. Because at the end of the day, their homeowner's insurance is gonna try and subrogate the loss anyway. Um, but it's gonna be a much quicker, cleaner process if they just go ahead and file that claim uh with their uh with their insurance company. And that that's what I ended up doing as well. Um, yeah, I mean, I hired uh an engineer to come in and inspect the entire residence club, my my pool um maintenance company to drain the pool, uh check all of the the lines and and you know do any testing for that. Uh we just literally uh a month before that, uh a month before the blast occurred, uh paid a million, a little over a million dollars for four rooftop units to be replaced on the residence club. Um, you know, uh the the tennis court was was resurfaced less than a year prior to that, uh to this happening. Um so I had all of these things inspected along with the roof as well. Um and uh you know compiled all of those reports and sent all of those in. Uh, you know, so there's a lot of lot of moving parts.

SPEAKER_02 15:28

All right. And luckily for Chris's community, he's really good with the record keeping, Chris Loiser. He I just happened to, I Chris has been on here like four or five times. So I even know I read it a segment on his roof, his roof equipment. I realized, yeah. Chris Loiser, so luckily they lucked out. Chris has records on everything. He's a big into his reserve studies and things like that. So Chris was ready to go from day one. And Dawn, if you could remember to talk about that a little bit, the advantage of that for insurance. Chris, any questions, Loiser, before we go to Dawn?

SPEAKER_03 15:55

Uh no, no, I don't have any questions.

SPEAKER_02 15:58

Are you surprised by this story or you're not?

SPEAKER_03 16:00

Um I'm not. I mean, you know, it's tough to uh plan for the unexpected, but you have to know that the unexpected is out there. And it's it's how you deal with the situation once it happens. And it sounds like sounds like Chris did everything exactly the way he needed to do it.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

Yeah, and luckily Chris has good record keeping. All right. Chris, can I go to Don? Or did you want to add anything else? Okay, yeah, go ahead. Don.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

So you know, Lozier pointed out that planning is really important, and Chris Petrick evidently had some sort of disaster planning as far as the contact and the notification. And I think that's one of the most important things when something unexpected occurs is what is your plan? And if you don't have one, I hope you think about today during a session creating one. There are a lot of um informational sort of plans out there, tests, you know, uh samples and exact, etc., what to do in an emergency, but notification of our of what's going to occur next seems to be, in my mind, the best way to stave off frustration from your homeowners. Now, this wasn't an issue for the HOA essentially, but it impacted the HOA. So the residents are going to look for one source to get their information. So Chris having those updates was going to be very integral to smoothing it out and making sure that the process was as seamless as possible to get everybody rebuilt.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

But the association was affected though, because they they had claims too, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:39

Of course. You know, it sounded like Chris had a lot of documents about the work that's been done. I can't impress this upon you, board members and managers. It's so important to go over that schedule of insurance and determine what is to be insured and the proper values. We're seeing an increase, of course, in the cost of materials and labor. So if you don't have enough insurance at the time of the loss, that's gonna be a really tough spot. And it results in special assessments at that point.

unknown 18:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

Can I can I can do you want me to go into detail a little bit about the insurance process and what happened? So, you know, I again I I filed the claim with our insurance company, knowing that they were gonna subrogate the loss. And after receiving all of the invoices and reports and everything for that that were done after after the loss and submitting them to the insurance company, I was not pleased to find out that and I won't name who the actual carrier is, um, but they came back, you know, with these thousands of dollars, uh, mean tens of thousands of dollars of you know, or uh repairs and and uh uh inspections that had to be done. Uh they came back and they said, well, we'll pay for the repairs, but we're not going to pay for any inspections that you uh that you schedule to have done because we didn't order the inspections. And you know, to me as a manager, I'm thinking, okay, well, that makes zero sense. You'll pay for the repairs, but how do I know that I have repairs unless I get things inspected, right? And the time is of the essence in a situation like this because uh in a blast scenario, I didn't know if I was gonna have a cracked, you know, foundation, uh, you know, many areas of the residence club. I didn't know what else I was gonna find. And so I wanted to get things done quickly. And um, you know, luckily for me, I was able to have a great frank conversation after talking to our attorney with the blast company. They had already owned it, they knew that they had you know screwed up, it was everything was their fault. They ended up, I ended up circumventing, uh, you know, getting paid on the majority of the claims from from our carrier. And the blast company said, you know what, Chris, we will, and I was very lucky again. All right, they they said, we will just go ahead and we'll deal with the insurance companies, and you send us the invoices, and we will pay all of these vendors directly.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

All right, let's let's take a I want to make sure we hit this part with Dawn because you got lucky, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:26

I did very Dawn.

SPEAKER_02 20:28

What's your feedback on this? It's Chris was unhappy because the insurance company didn't want to pay for the inspections. And obviously, Chris made a really good point. Well, we got to know what's broken. I, you know, what I was thinking also, Chris, was that um it's almost due diligence too to make sure that things aren't gonna fall down, fall apart, and things like that. The insurance company is always talking about protecting the property. Dawn, what is the deal with that? Is that something that's standard in the industry? A manager should be prepared for that. What's your commentary?

SPEAKER_00 20:57

Actually, we have seen a lot of insurance carers deny engineering reports. So, my recommendation is on this is you know, essentially the absence of insurance doesn't negate the responsibility to repair or replace. And as Chris pointed out, the euro is the essence of time. And they also need to determine not only the structural stability but safety for all of their residents and for the structure itself. I think you have a good case to make an argument for the insurance carer why those types of reports should be paid. And as Chris pointed out, a lot of times the carers will say, Well, we didn't order it, so we're not gonna pay for it. So that's a discussion to have right up front during the process with the claim. Hey, we've submitted this claim and we would like to discuss the cost for inspections to determine safety. A lot of the carers will work with you when you're up front, but that's not something that you're always going to think about when you're in the midst of reporting a claim. So this is something that also experience will tell you, or if you tune into this webinar.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Like this is really unfair, right? I mean, Chris Petrick was checking on the safety of people and he had to get inspections done. The insurance company didn't want to pay for it. I'm surprised about this. Are you surprised about it?

SPEAKER_03 22:12

I a little I am a little bit surprised about it, yes. But I mean, you know, as as Don said, I mean, that's as a manager who's who has experience, you know, you you you learn and you learn which questions you need to ask up front um and right away so that that's your head of the curve. You don't want to have to be um you know trying to play catch up when it's a situation like this, especially one that was as as large and and all-encompassing as this, and and one that you I mean, personally, I I don't hear about that. If it's a hurricane, sure, but I don't ever deal with explosions, so it's a little different for me.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

So, Chris, you were you were surprised and disappointed, even though you overcame it, but um you got maybe got lucky. Um you were surprised about the inspection process not being paid for. Were you surprised about anything else in regard to the insurance? Good or bad?

SPEAKER_01 23:09

Talking to me or Don.

SPEAKER_02 23:10

I'm talking to you, Chris. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

Yeah, um, you know, I I I definitely uh voiced my displeasure to all parties involved, including the adjuster, uh, the carrier itself, and my agent for not um necessarily going to you know, going to bat for me um and trying to uh you know really have my back on this and and you know defend my position. And honestly, I wouldn't change what I did. I if if if if I had to go through the scenario again, I would do the exact same thing because you know we did find deficiencies that needed to be addressed very quickly. And one of the things that I was upset about was the delay in the carrier getting uh an adjuster out here and for responding to my emails and my messages and my phone calls. And uh, you know, it it was it was very it was a very trying, taxing time mentally uh trying to get through that.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

People are asking me, asking me questions to backtrack a little bit, Dawn. Um Chris felt like no one had his back. Um shouldn't somebody have your back? Like who who who should who should you feel is rooting for you? And and who's not gonna who who who are as a manager gonna feel are gonna be their adversaries in this kind of situation? Don't if you're comfortable talking about it, and who are you gonna feel have your back?

SPEAKER_00 24:41

So you always need to start with the agent who placed the coverage on behalf of the community. That is the first line of defense. Now, it's most important, and I know it gets confusing, but insurance agents that sell you insurance cannot adjust claims. That's a conflict of interest. So oftentimes when a claim does occur, agents are not able to really answer questions or provide details. However, they can certainly ask for updates and push it along, especially as Chris pointed out, when there's a length of time and the carrier assigning an adjuster. That should really be pushed by the insurance agent and their staff. Extremely important. That's the purpose of the agent. Now, a lot of times when we look at insurance agents and their role, people will say it's just to place insurance, provide quotes, provide advice. But I also say it's important to follow up with those carriers that you place the coverage with to make sure they follow through on their contractual commitment to your client.

SPEAKER_02 25:43

So, Chris, the inspection surprised you. They didn't want to pay for them. And oh, quick question from the audience Did they pay for the follow-up inspections after the repairs of document and everything was all fixed? I know you said that you ended up getting paid for the repairs anyway, through a third party, I guess, right?

SPEAKER_01 25:58

So so right now the the BLAST company is working with our carrier uh, you know, to probably get reimbursed for those. Uh I'm not, you know what, at the end of the day, it's off my plate. And you know, however they fight over who gets paid, we've been made whole. And uh again, uh I I have voiced my displeasure with with my agent. I mean, I didn't even get a phone call from my agent, uh, you know, probably for the first two weeks, even saying, hey Chris, is there anything that we can do on the back end to help support you? You know, like like that was ridiculous. Um, so it's uh, you know, left a kind of a bad taste in my mouth.

SPEAKER_02 26:47

Especially, I know I keep saying this, Chris, but I I do know you, and you're you're you got records on everything. You are an easy, I would imagine as far as an insurance company goes, you're like a management dream, right? You got you got you got records on everything. You know what you're talking about. Dawn, you know, that commentary, that overall feeling that Chris left with, I guess disappointment, if that's okay, Chris. Interrupt me if I'm wrong. That shouldn't be, right? You should really feel like that agent um has your back, I guess, or at least staying in touch with you.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

Yes, I agree. I mean, there are times where we've had clients get very upset with us as to the status of the claim, meaning that it's held up in the courts, or maybe they don't feel that the adjuster has closed out the claim, or it's reserved too high. But without a doubt, if Chris is feeling that there is a deficiency on the agent's end, then that agent probably wasn't very community, commutative, or did not respond thoroughly. And that's disappointing. Not all agents are equal. And I don't know if this agency specialized in community associations. I would gather perhaps they don't. Maybe they dabble in it, have a couple accounts, but maybe that's not their main focus. Community association insurance agents would understand that Chris is probably has Chris probably has a line out his door. So if they don't give an answer, Chris is probably gonna show up at their house.

SPEAKER_02 28:12

That's what I was thinking, because that's a good account. All right, Chris, inspections were not happy with um the adjuster, how long it took, not happy with the general responses you're getting, not happy with. Um, was there anything else?

SPEAKER_01 28:27

Uh so yeah, I mean, I mean we're so basically right now, uh the the main question that I'm that we're getting from our residents is because we we had promised our residents a town hall um once once the report was done from the uh fire marshal uh regarding the blast, because that that's a question that our residents have is is the why behind it. We still don't even know exactly the the reason why it actually happened, right? So so you know our our residents, of course, are inquiring uh about the why, so it doesn't happen again, right? And and so, but we can't set up we can't set up a town hall with with the blast company and the developer until we get that fire marshal's final report. And you know, uh apparently the fire marshal's quite backed up, and it could take, you know, it could take another six months before we get this report. And so, of course, owners aren't happy about that. And uh, you know, again, it all comes back to educating the owners uh uh about you know who's responsible for what, but you know, we're doing all that we can't, you know, we can do uh, you know, prior to that happening.

SPEAKER_02 29:47

I believe that you definitely are. Chris Loiser, do you have any questions for um Chris or or Dawn? I know I'm putting you on the spot. You had no idea we were gonna talk up, be talking about this.

SPEAKER_03 29:57

Yeah, and well, the only thing I have to say is is what was it like for your the hierarchy of your company? Were you getting support from the people above you? Um I know that's something I work for a smaller company, so I I I can talk to every step of the way. Yeah, but I just yeah, I mean, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

I was I was getting a lot of support from everyone. Um you know, I was keeping everyone informed uh that I report to. Um, you know, and and they were they were you know trying to apply pressure where they could. Um but yeah, they were they were 100% supportive.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

Chris, that was a great question, and I would have never thought about asking. It's funny how you went right to that because it makes perfect sense. What are what are my bosses going to do? Who's gonna support me here at the office?

SPEAKER_03 30:43

Yeah, yeah. Well, working for a smaller company, you know, like I said, we we all talk to each other. So if there's something that I'm going through, um, you know, I I only have a few steps to go to get to all the way to the owner of the company who's probably gone through something or at least can help me uh directionally, because something like this, I mean, like I said before, I mean, where I am located, it's hurricane. I would never, if an explosion happened, I I would be way out of my element.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

Yeah, I mean, you know, kind of kind of going back to what what Don was saying and what Ray was saying about having an emergency plan in place. Yeah, I mean, we can have an emergency plan in place, but how many of us have an emergency plan in place for an explosion or a blast, right? Like, like I said, this was not something that I had on my bingo card on a Friday afternoon. I mean, I can I can do floods, I can do fires, I can do accidents, I can do all of these other things. Like when I was in South Carolina, I had hurricanes up here. I deal with a lot of snow, like all of these things, you know, you can kind of have a rough idea of how to handle that situation. But this is something that was very, very unique, right? And you just have to kind of pull from what you've done in other scenarios to try and bring it all together. And uh, you know, now I guess I have a playbook for when this happens again, which hopefully it never will happen again, but I'll be in a better position. Chris, I have one.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

I wanted to ask, Chris, since then, have you provided an updated written disaster plan or an evacuation plan or what to do in certain scenarios? Have you coordinated with the local fire department or emergency services to look at your egress and your ingress um ingress to make sure that you know people can get out? Where do you congregate? How do you get the news out?

SPEAKER_02 32:37

But how does it happen again, Chris? Do you have a plan? That's a great question.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

Yeah, so we actually um our we have seven committees, and one of them is the safety and security committee, and there's actually a subcommittee that that broke off that has created a CERT, which is a community um emergency response team. And it's the only one that's been created in our entire county, and they have full support, you know, from fire and from uh police, uh, all of the emergency services. And so, you know, we we have our our plans are are constantly getting better as time goes on. They have over, I think it's 20 or 25 uh full-time volunteers now that are all you know, CPR, first aid, everything that you can imagine certified uh for when one of these events or scenarios happens where people actually need help. So so it's it's getting more robust every day.

SPEAKER_02 33:39

Um, Chris, I have a question to wrap up. Has it absolutely been 100% determined that this wasn't your fault? Oh, absolutely. 100%. Are you sure? Because I'm questioning how do I know what it was for this explosion?

SPEAKER_01 33:52

Yeah, yeah. I I mean I mean, just like when assessments go up, it's it's always my fault that assessments go up, right? Yeah. Okay. All right, yeah, well, there you go.

SPEAKER_02 34:01

Um, Chris Loiser. I love that Chris Loiser was honest that we encounter things that push us to the deep end and not to be ashamed that this is a new experience. Sometimes my self-esteem gets in the way of being humble enough to say I am in over my head. Thanks for that. People appreciated your honesty, Chris. And I appreciate the commentary. That was really nice of you to share that with us. Don, um, I want to move on to um whether board members and managers can be friends, but any other, this is such a big insurance picture here.

SPEAKER_00 34:37

Yeah, but you know, I'm I'm a big planner. I spent over 20 years in the fire service. So for me, preparation, planning, training is what really helps when it comes down to a disaster. So I did put in the chat, you can look up through FEMA, cert training that is available, and there is online classes for disaster response. So a lot of these things are free at no cost. So if you're wondering about that for your community, don't delay. Go and check it out through the FEMA.gov website. Now, from an insurance, oh yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 35:11

No, I just passed that along to people, but go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

Yes. Now, you know, from an insurance perspective, we always ask those questions. What's your plan? What are you gonna do? Um, you know, take a video of your community, walk through it, look at everything in a different light. Look at it as if you had to get in and get out very quickly, how would you do it? And try and find those, let's say, gaps and things that you wouldn't think of. You know, if you're near an airport, what if a plane were to crash? What's you know, what's the response there? You know, you have to think of it. If you're next to a major highway and there's an evacuation, are you gonna be able to get on that highway for your residents? Those type of things. It's important.

SPEAKER_02 35:53

Dawn, I'm questioning whether or not you really have to plan if an airplane's gonna crash on your I think you have to plan for everyone.

SPEAKER_03 36:00

You are an over-planner, but that's why you're the neighborhood that has an air, air, the airline goes straight over the neighborhood. So I it's it's not beyond the realm of possibility.

SPEAKER_02 36:11

I think it's gonna be out of the realm of the manager handling it pretty quickly.

SPEAKER_03 36:16

That I agree with, that I agree with.

SPEAKER_00 36:18

Well, we have communities that have airports in the world.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

That's different. I didn't say that. I'm just talking about playing. All right, planes, flying around. Chris, thank you so much. And um, I'm not really Chris doesn't pay me anything, but I will tell you that Chris is a very good manager, and I know that for a fact, this made the process go by a lot better because he is he has a lot of videos with us about communication and things like that, and just about everything you've ever talked about, Chris, came into play for this thing, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:44

Yeah, pretty pretty much. Yeah, no, it's and you know, just going back to the cert thing real quick. Our, I mean, Don, ours, ours was was formed because we have a CXX bridge that goes over one of our entrances uh on the back side of the community, and it was formed because they were afraid that if there was ever another train derailment situation, uh they wanted to be fully prepared. That's a big dumb thing. I'm sorry, brought that up.

SPEAKER_00 37:14

The trains and also look at what's next door to you, manufacturing facilities. Just in South Carolina last week, the schools up in York County were evacuated twice because a solar manufacturing company had a spill of a chemical. So those are just things that you don't think it would happen to you, but it can.

SPEAKER_02 37:33

It's hard enough being a manager without us telling people to worry about all these other things, but I guess they have to. Dawn was my first call when my building was evacuated in February 2025. I'm sure that Dawn is the first call for a lot of people. Okay. Uh before we do managers and board members, what was that, Dawn?

SPEAKER_00 37:55

Unfortunately, before the attorney, a lot of times.

SPEAKER_02 37:57

I know it's true. Before I go to the next topic, if you require CEUs, especially if you're watching the recorded session, now you need to go to your question feature and just say CEU. Say CEU. I'm gonna leave it up there and give it another 10 seconds so nobody can say it went everybody's gonna say it went by too fast, Chris. Like I guarantee it. What? It went by so quick, I didn't have time to do it. Okay, put in CEU under the question feature for me so I can let CM ICB know that you're are here. Managers and boards, can they be friends? I cannot wait to give my opinion, but I'm gonna wait. I have a theory on this. Chris, I am gonna start. Well, let me ask the audience a couple questions and then we'll go to you guys. And I'm gonna go through them quick, audience, so you can just kind of remember them and add your commentary, and I'll read it as we catch up. Can a manager truly stay neutral if they are friends with one board member? Is socializing with board members after hours inappropriate? Should managers avoid friendships with sitting board members entirely? Does friendship create hidden influence over board decisions? And lastly, should managers decline invitations to private dinners or drinks with directors? All right. So while that is floating out there, Chris, and I hope our audience offers a lot of commentary. Can managers and board members be friends?

SPEAKER_03 39:26

Well, to give you one word to answer every single one of those questions, it's perception. Um, you know, you can you can be friendly with board members, but to be friends is a whole nother level, especially if uh one of the people that's on the board that you're friends with has a say a landscaping company and they were part of the bidding process and say they won the bid. Um, you know, obviously that board member would need to recuse themselves, but on the board manager, it's very difficult for him to recuse himself. So it it does make it very difficult to have that kind of relationship. I personally, um, you know, I will talk with all my board members, I will be friendly, um, even if it's something I don't agree with or something that I may have something negative to say, but to become friends outside, uh, that is something that's uh personally that that I just won't do.

SPEAKER_02 40:35

A lot of comments from the audience. I'm gonna kind of keep up with them as I talk to you guys. Yes, you could be friendly, but you can't be friends. It's so hard, especially when they take it personally. When you decline invitations, they do take it personally. They are clients only. Perception of special treatment, friendly and professional, but remain in the employer-employee relationship. Uh Chris, this topic came up because of a live stream you were on, and um, you were mentioned being friendly with one of the board members, and some people in the audience were like, No, you can't be friends. Chris, what do you what do you think about this?

SPEAKER_01 41:09

Yeah, with Chris.

SPEAKER_02 41:11

The rock, Chris.

SPEAKER_01 41:13

Okay. Uh, yeah, so so when I had mentioned that I was friendly with a board member, uh, I want to preface that with you know, we we all have those one or two board members that we get along with the most, uh, that really go to bat for us, that uh are the ones that are biggest advocates. And kind of like Chris was was saying, uh, you know, at the end of the day, we're here to do a job, right? Like we are here to manage the community, and you know, we have that that relationship that shouldn't cross certain boundaries. And you know, I will have great conversations and you know, learn about my board members and you know, give them a little bit of my information, but I'm not gonna divulge a lot of information. Um, I will come to uh like some of our lifestyle or social events that we have, but the board or residents, when they see me come to these events, guess what? They will never see me with a drink in my hand. They will never um, you know, because it it's all about optics, it's about that perception. And the last thing that we need in in our communities that we manage uh are rumors going around. And we all know how quickly those rumors can spread. And uh, you know, so you just have to be really careful about it. And I and I feel like you know, some managers maybe learn that the hard way. Um, but uh, but yeah, it's not a great idea.

SPEAKER_02 42:50

Let me hit some of the talking points here, um, Dawn. And then I I can't wait to give you my idea, Dawn. And and I don't think anyone's gonna agree with me, but I I I love to play devil's advocate. Appearance of favoritism to other directors, maintaining neutrality during board disputes, confidential information shared socially, influence over employment decisions, socializing with one director over another, friendships after boards change, managers' duty to the association on individuals, risk of exclusion, and lastly, setting clear professional boundaries. Dawn, you see things from an outside perspective. What do you think about can managers and board members be friends?

SPEAKER_00 43:33

You know, I I will say from my perspective, I don't, I think I probably can count on two fingers how many times I've seen a board member being good friends with a manager. I just really don't see it. Most of the managers really keep that professional and segregated. And if they are friends, it's perhaps like a childhood thing or something that came up. But I really see managers that seek out those friendships because of the professional boundaries that they need to keep. Chris Lozier said it best. It's perception. And so if the perception is that there is favoritism or that there could be that perception, I don't think you should cross the line.

SPEAKER_02 44:13

Okay, so questions for let me get these. Uh some board members are too gossipy about residents' private business and vice versa about the manager to residents. Gossip, gossip, gossip. If I go out anywhere and run into homeowners, I leave shortly thereafters. I've had the we saw you out drinking after hours at the local bar. They took the time to come to my office to inform me won't ever happen again. That is just absolutely awful. Awful. All right. Crystal Eiser, I'm going to start with you. No one's going to no one ever agrees with me. I'm always devil advocate on this. I think board members and managers can be friends if the power dynamic is equal. And I'll give you um right now, at this point in my life, I feel like I'm a lot more comfortable to be with with friendly with people because I feel like the power dynamic is a little bit more equal. You know what I mean? Um financially it's not when I had my kid in college and everything else. Um I feel like it's more of an equal situation. So I feel more comfortable being friendly with people. Um, I think it's the power dynamic that that matters. If you're a manager and you're a billionaire and you you could leave that job, you're in a much better position, I think, not to be influenced by your friendship with the board member. Chris, tell me if I'm right or if I'm wrong. Uh I don't mind if being wrong.

SPEAKER_03 45:38

I don't know. No, no, no, no, no, no. You know, from a personal point of view, you know, you're you're gonna have a different type of relationship with each board member on on each board. It's just it's it's just the way it is. Different personalities react differently with each other. Um, but again, and I I I hate to do this, but sometimes I try to narrow it down to its lowest common denominator. And in this particular case, for me, the one word is consistency. If if I'm being consistent with one one board member, I want to be consistent with all of them. Um, as far as the gossiping and that kind of stuff, it's brought to my attention. Um, you know, I I don't want to have to go through uh explaining myself. I want you know, it's it's something that I already have in place, and I don't have to, I don't have to justify my actions because I did something that again, like Chris said it, an optics, perception, what have you, that that other owners might see it that way. Um, you know, you would I I have I don't have it, but I know some of you know that my wife is also in the industry and she is an on-site manager, so she's stuck in one place. So she has certain people that come to her office and talk to her on a daily basis, and some people believe that they get special treatment because they come to her office on a daily basis. It's it's just not true, it's it's just you know, you have to deal with what you have to deal with on your property. I'm fortunate, my portfolio, I don't have that same setup, but um one of the ways ways I do run things is I in order to keep things um moving forward and not creating more work for anybody involved, is I usually speak directly with the board president. I let the board president then go to the other board members and ask questions. Now it's not that I have a preferential treatment for the board president, it's just that the other other board members voted that person to be the board president, to be their chairperson, their leader. And so that that helps with the consistency as well, because it's between two people, and then that board president um kind of assimilates the information to the other board members.

SPEAKER_02 47:59

Okay, don't get me on another topic. That's that's good advice about the proper way to communicating. Um, you know, Chris, I'll just say this. I see you as having a high power dynamic at your job. You're well respected. Let's face it, your company, if you're unhappy, they're gonna put you somewhere else. Nobody wants, nobody wants to lose you, right? Don't you feel like that gives you some power, Chris, to be maybe a more equal footing to uh a board member, which therefore could make it that you could be more friendly? Because I don't feel like a board member in your case is really they're not really gonna make your life miserable to a certain extent because you you know you're so well respected, you know what I mean? You've been around a while. I don't know. What do you think, Chris?

SPEAKER_03 48:42

Well, again, I think part of that part of that respect. Go ahead. Other Chris?

SPEAKER_02 48:48

Yeah, but I'm sorry, now I feel bad. I'm taking all that. No, no, no, no, no, no. I mean now I feel bad.

SPEAKER_03 48:55

I do, so I know he has more experience than me. Let's let him answer.

SPEAKER_02 48:58

Tell me, I feel like now I have to give Chris Loiser like a big long compliment. Like now I feel like I'm taking it away. All right, Chris Patrick, I'm sorry. I know more about Chris Patrick because I've known him a long time, Chris Loiser. So that's why. But Chris, I feel like you have a high power dynamic. What do you think about that?

SPEAKER_01 49:15

Yeah, I mean, it it's one of those scenarios. I mean, I'm in a very fortunate situation to where I feel like we are on very equal footing, and my, you know, I've gotten to the point where my board trusts me and the the decisions uh that I make uh are in the best interest for the community. And I always keep them updated and I'm very transparent about everything that's going on. Um, so they don't have a lot of questions, uh, you know, uh about a lot of things. But you know, going back to your question, uh, I mean, I I would say no, uh, we can't be friends. Uh and uh, you know, it it it's just it's just one of those, one of those things where, you know, it's like the telephone game that you play in elementary school, right? I mean, it's gonna go throughout the entire community, it's gonna go on next door, it's gonna go on Facebook, because some people just have nothing better to do with their time. And then when it gets back to me, it's gonna be completely different than what the actual real life scenario is. Um, so so you know, it's just uh yeah, I mean, I agree 100% with what Chris said uh about you know that that dynamic.

SPEAKER_02 50:26

Don, isn't it interesting that I like their perspective, which is the accurate one, right? Because I'm not a manager, you know. Don, I was thinking of an example. I don't want to say his last name, but you know, Larry um is a is a good friend of mine. But for a long time, Larry was a big client of mine. But Larry hasn't been working in the industry for a long time, and I'm still good friends with Larry. Um, so don't get me wrong, I think I'm sincere with my friendships, but I think we're always on an equal footing. Um, Dawn, you're you're not a manager. Um, do you at least see my perspective on this, or am I just completely wrong? And I don't mind being wrong.

SPEAKER_00 51:00

No, I can I can see your perspective on it, but again, I think it's really about perception. Again, I can't, you know, Chris really hit the nail on the head with that. And I think that a lot of our community association homeowners are sometimes looking for that axe to grind. And I don't want to leave them any ammunition.

SPEAKER_01 51:18

So for me, I I think it's better to keep that boundary very strict, even if you're don't get me wrong, there are there are scenarios where when I was a portfolio manager or uh the previous site that I managed, I am now friendly with some of those previous board members because I no longer have that same dynamic, right? Like, like they're no longer we no longer have that that you know client-vendor relationship.

SPEAKER_02 51:46

It's kind of sad in a way. Um, I think, in a way, because um, like I I know Chris Petrick a lot longer than I know you, Chris Loiser. So because you're just on equal standing, so you could definitely, you know, be friendly with people. And I'm surprised, I'm not surprised, I guess you guys are so worried about the perception. And it sounds like you're just you know, we just end up kowtowing to people that are just out of touch with reality to a certain extent. Um Chris Loiser, what I just said make any sense at all or it it does.

SPEAKER_03 52:19

I I want to go back to one thing that that Chris said that is is is so true, and I use the analogy all the time, and that's that old game of telephone. You know, it starts out as one thing, and by the time it gets back around, it's something completely different, which is why a lot of times, you know, when we dress a board, we do it you know, obviously during a board meeting and try to make sure everybody understands the uh well what we're trying to get across. That way there's no misconception and you know, people people don't have uh they don't they don't have worries that we're we're leaning towards other members on the board. It's it's you know it's it kind of makes it even, I would say.

SPEAKER_02 53:02

Being on site is a different animal than portfolio management when seeing and speaking with residents. It's unfair to managers that they don't have the excuse that they cannot be friends. You know what? That makes a lot of sense, right? If Dawn, if we set this up in the industry, I guess it's a lot easier for managers if there's a policy where you can just say, look, I I can't go to your party or I can't go here. I guess managers want to have that um as a fallback, so they're not personally insulting people, Dawn. Commentary?

SPEAKER_00 53:37

I agree. I think I agree, and and also just too, thinking about situations where we have the employer, employee relationship, and there are times where your friend gets promoted and now becomes your employer or your boss, and we have to look at those lines. So this is a common thing, it's not that this is abnormal, it's just you have to really look at each such situation on its merit.

SPEAKER_01 54:02

Yeah, I mean, I mean, I I have a great example, like right outside my office is our is uh our parlor room, and Tuesday and Thursday nights, uh the poker club gets together. And for the last three years, they've been saying, Chris, you need to join us for poker. Come play poker with us. No, I I'm like I in the very nicest way possible. I'm like, I really would like to get home. You know, I mean, luckily for me, I I live almost an hour away. So if I do want to go out, people aren't gonna see me. But the last thing I I really want to do is sit at a poker table with a whole bunch of my residents, some who I get along with really, really well, some who I don't. Um, that's you know, perception.

SPEAKER_02 54:47

You're getting it, you're getting a like two thumbs up on that. I don't want to be friends with the residents, it's nothing disrespectful to them, but I don't want to be. Actually, that's a really good point, too, Chris Loiser. Like, you know, it's for you guys, it's work, right?

SPEAKER_03 55:02

Yeah, well, well, and I will say the the only caveat to that is, you know, I I if I switch a company and I have you know the previous portfolio, and there's members on that board that have always had a um, they've always wanted to have more of a relationship. Um, and if you know, once I switched companies, I once I switched companies, they were calling me up saying, yes, let's go out and have a drink, let's go do this, let's, you know, why don't you come out now and play pool with us, things like that. Um, but even with that, I still kind of have to back away because what if the company I works for takes on that property, and then I'm kind of caught into a precarious situation.

SPEAKER_02 55:47

Chris Loiser, is it hard because a lot of the residents fall in love with you? How do you handle that? No, but but happen all the time, right? Don't they don't they fall in love with you?

SPEAKER_03 55:59

And no, but I do I do say I try to treat them with the same respect they treat me. So I think that that goes a long way.

SPEAKER_02 56:07

Dawn, um, female managers have to be especially careful with dating vendors or residents. I think female, well, I'll let you comment, Ariana. I think being a female is tough.

SPEAKER_00 56:18

So a long time ago, you know, being in the fire service, I'm one of the few females, and I had a a real um rule for myself that I would never violate. I would never date anybody that I worked with or anybody that I um was on the fire department with, because emotionally, in a in a time of emergency, that can be a real conflict. Your mind would be on your loved one versus the emergency at hand and safety. That being said, I know that there are a lot of people that have met their significant other in the industry that they work in. So if love, you know, Cupid hits your heart, I mean, I'm it it's a tough situation. You know, I think it's ill-advised to continue the relationship, but you know, in a world of hurt and unhappiness, a little love sometimes is also a great thing.

SPEAKER_02 57:10

You know, Chris, did your wife fall in love with you because you're a manager?

SPEAKER_03 57:13

She was just so no, we it's odd odd situation. We were together prior, and I wound up sitting and taking the C1 CM100 to see if it was something I was interested in. Uh, passed it, went to work for the company that she actually worked for, um, worked for them for six years, and then moved on to another company. During those six years, there were maybe two people out of about 70 people that knew that we were even together. We didn't go outside and socialize with each other. Um, when it came to like the Christmas party, we would socialize with other people. We made it a point to make sure people knew that there was no, you know, one didn't get the job because of the other, you know, there was there was nothing going on. But now that we're with different companies, it's it's not a big deal now.

SPEAKER_02 58:10

Okay, excellent. If you are here for CEUs, click yes. It's the last time you have to do it. Click yes. All right, really quick, like 20 seconds of closing thoughts here. Uh Chris or Patrick.

SPEAKER_01 58:27

Yeah, I mean, uh, you know, just as far as the insurance goes, just make sure to keep all your documents uh in order uh because you will need them when you're filing your claim and to you know recall all all the information when it's when it's necessary. And then again, I can't emphasize enough, just stay professional uh with your residents and your board.

SPEAKER_02 58:49

My current and former board members nagged me relentlessly to go out to lunch, meet for dinner, and have drinks, etc. I've run out of reasons to say no. That's terrible. I feel sorry for you. They honestly they should know better. The other board members should correct them. Uh Chris, Loiser, closing thoughts.

SPEAKER_03 59:05

Um anything. The biggest thing is that uh no, no, I don't believe you can be friends with the board members, but I definitely believe you can be friendly.

SPEAKER_02 59:16

That's a really you know, you kind of you got a little good little taglines, you know, that we could use for video shorts. Dawn, somebody saying, Isn't Dawn your friend, Ray? Dawn is my friend, but I'm terrified of her. She could ruin she could shut me. She I'm terrified. Absolutely terrified. She could ruin me in a heartbeat. She's that powerful in the industry. Okay, Dawn, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 59:38

You know, so while we were on the recording this webinar, a meteor just hit Cleveland. No joke, just about an hour ago. So you just don't know when disaster can happen. So my real hook here is that please start your disaster planning. Even if you're a small community, just have something in writing. And this also helps as far as the conflict of interest with any relationships. You can include that in your quote unquote handbook for the community.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:08

At least we know the meteorite wasn't Chris Petrick's fault because he's been here with us this whole time. So he's all done. Yeah, I've been wondering.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:14

Like, like, like I've been getting all these calls from Cleveland this morning.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:17

I want to thank everybody. I want to thank uh somebody wants a sample, Dawn, so I'll check back with you and give you the information. I want to thank everybody. I want to thank everybody for being here. Chris, great job on the rock thing. Chris Loiser, great to see you, Dawn. Always good to see you guys. And I'll see everybody next time. Thank you so much. Much appreciated. Thanks, everybody.