RFPs That Protect

Every major HOA or condo project starts long before the contract is signed.

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YouTube: https://youtu.be/PlAaUJTcYAU

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It starts with the RFP—and when it’s done wrong, everything that follows can fall apart.

In this practical, real-world session, we break down how to structure a Request for Proposal that protects your association, creates true “apples-to-apples” bidding, and reduces the risk of disputes, delays, and budget overruns.

From scope of work and vendor instructions to insurance requirements, timelines, and change orders, this discussion highlights what boards and managers must get right before the first bid ever comes in.

You’ll also hear why poorly written RFPs lead to confusion, legal exposure, and project failure—and how a well-structured process can defend board decisions when they’re challenged.

WHAT YOU’LL LEARN

• Why the success of your project depends on the RFP
• How to define scope of work to eliminate disputes
• Why “apples-to-apples” bidding is critical
• The real risk of relying on AI instead of professionals
• How timelines, delays, and accountability should be structured
• What causes change orders—and how to minimize them
• Why insurance requirements can dramatically impact pricing
• The role of engineers, attorneys, and insurance advisors
• How to properly evaluate vendors and qualifications
• Payment structures, retainage, and lien protection strategies

CEU INSTRUCTIONS

To qualify for CAMICB CEUs, please follow the on-screen instructions that appear during the video. These instructions will be displayed within the first 10 minutes of the program, so please watch carefully.

To receive CEU credit, you must use the “Question” feature and respond to all three CAMICB checkpoints during the program. If these steps are not completed, we will not be able to submit your participation to CAMICB for credit.

Please allow up to five days to receive your CEU confirmation.

PANEL

Raymond Dickey • www.AssociationHelpNow.com

Gregg V. Gerelli • Gerelli Insurance Agency, Inc. • gregg@gerelli-insurance.com • www.gerelli-insurance.com

Cory Kravit, Esq. • Kovitz Shifrin Nesbit • ckravit@ksnlaw.com • www.ksnlaw.com

John LaGumina, Esq. • The LaGumina Law Firm, PLLC • www.laguminalaw.com • jlagumina@laguminalaw.com

David Byrne, Esq. • Ansell Grimm & Aaron, PC • dbyrne@ansell.law • www.ansell.law]

David Chesky, R.S., P.R.A. • Falcon Engineering • dchesky@thefalcongroup.us • www.thefalcongroup.us

WATCH / LISTEN

YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/@AHNData/videos

Podcast: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2565449

Hosted by AssociationHelpNow® | Practical insights for managers and boards who live this every day.

This content does not constitute professional advice.

#HOA #CondoAssociation #PropertyManagement #CommunityA

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hi, everybody. Ray Dickey from South Carolina CAI, Hudson Valley CAI, and Association Health Now. We are covering many states. This is a very important topic. The success of your project depends on the proper RFP. And I will throw it out there that that is 100% accurate. The success of your project does 100% depend on the proper RFP. Everyone has a question feature today. Please use it, send, comment. I absolutely love it. I don't use people's names when I relay the question, so feel free to ask whatever you like. But don't send me anything too top secret because I could make a mistake. We do things a little differently now because a lot of these programs are available for CEU on-demand videos. If you are here for CEUs, use that question feature and enter CEU. Use that question feature and enter CEU. That's how I'm able to tell the governing bodies that you were here and prove. So and we'll have to do this a couple more times today. If you're watching the recorded version in particular, you absolutely definitely need to do that to get your CEU. So please pay attention. All right. With that being said, let's have our panel introduce themselves with who I see first, and that is Greg.

SPEAKER_04 1:23

Good morning, everyone. Greg Girelli with Jarelli Insurance Agency. We're located in Cold Spring, New York. We are a family-owned independent insurance agency that has a department working with insurance master policy programs for community associations throughout the Hudson Valley and surrounding Tri-State area.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

All right. And you know what? I want to ask you a quick question, Greg, and ask everybody in the panel. How do you get your exercise very quickly?

SPEAKER_04 1:49

I do a lot of outside work, yard work, to I like working on cars, and I'm just very hands-on.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

And you go skiing a lot.

SPEAKER_04 1:58

And I ski a lot.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

If anybody in the audience wants to share how they get their exercise, I'm just curious very quickly. Corey, please introduce yourself.

SPEAKER_05 2:06

My name is Corey Kravit. Uh, thank you for having me again today. Um, the managing principal of COVID Schiffer Nesbitt's Florida office. We're a national community association law firm with offices in Florida, Illinois, uh, Wisconsin, and Indiana.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

How do you get your exercise?

SPEAKER_05 2:25

I try to hit the gym every morning, at least for a half hour.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

I believe you. All right, John. John Legumino from the Legumina Law Firm in Purchase, New York. Uh, just outside of New York City. We represent condominiums, co-ops, and homeowner associations from New York City throughout the Hudson Valley areas.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

All right, John. So how do you get exercise?

SPEAKER_00 2:46

Same as Corey, Jim.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

Uh Dave. Good morning, everybody. My name is Dave Byrne. Uh, my law firm is Ancel Law, uh, and uh I'm the chairperson of our community association practice group. We represent condominiums HOA's co-ops in uh New Jersey, New York, and Pennsylvania.

SPEAKER_02 3:05

Do you consider sports betting and exercise, Dave Byrne?

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Not a physical one, no. How do you get to you get do you exercise? Mental mental exercise if you prepare correctly. Do you exercise? Mentally or physically?

SPEAKER_02 3:20

Physically. Yes. Okay. He's obviously I'm done. I'm moving on. Okay. Dave Chesky.

SPEAKER_03 3:27

Hi, good morning, everyone. Dave Chesky, Executive Vice President of Falcon Group. We are a full service engineering and architecture reserve study firm uh serving community associations national.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

Uh, a lot of people putting down running, running, gym, biking. Oh, someone's training for a one-half marathon. Very impressive. Let us know how you did. I would like to know how you did. I know that you're on the live stream quite a bit. So thank you for sharing. All right. The success of your project depends on the proper RFP. Greg, I was saying before we went live how strongly I feel about this. Please get the audience excited about this topic.

SPEAKER_04 4:07

Oh, the details of the RFP are very important. We're going to get into each aspect, and they um definitely will affect the outcome of each project. When it's prepared for and documented properly to start, it's going to make the whole process go a lot smoother.

SPEAKER_02 4:22

Corey, please get people excited. There was another aspect that I told you before we went live about how RFPs are similar to.

SPEAKER_05 4:32

I don't remember. I wasn't.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

I feel like you're not paying attention to me. That's very obvious during the intro.

SPEAKER_05 4:39

Contracts.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

Contracts. We were talking about that.

SPEAKER_05 4:42

Yeah, it's like it's it's kind of like an LOI almost. Um, you know, you're you're putting you know the basic um terms of the deal together. Um, so it's it's a very important, and especially, you know, the most important part is it allows you when you're reviewing con, you know, reviewing other bids to compare apples to apples.

SPEAKER_02 5:04

I meant you screw this up, you're gonna have a problem. Correct, John? Yeah.

unknown 5:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

That's correct. And Dave Chesky, you love RFPs because that's part of your business, correct?

SPEAKER_03 5:16

Uh huge part of our business. Yeah, we call them specifications and bid forms, construction drawings, which are essentially RFPs.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

Why do you have to call it something different than everyone else? Because you're an engineer?

SPEAKER_03 5:28

Because you know, we're engineers.

SPEAKER_02 5:31

All right, let's talk about um scope of work. Um, Dave Bernard, what is the scope of work?

SPEAKER_01 5:40

The um the term I think identifies the the precise boundaries of what the contractor is going to do or be contracted to do, which creates then a legal, you know, the legal um scope of what you could hold the contract to uh contractor to. So at the end of the day, if something wasn't contemplated or included in the scope of work, the contractor didn't have an obligation to do it.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

You are correct, Dave, for a second there. I thought you were having a AI, I'm correct.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

I'm I equal what AI told you.

SPEAKER_02 6:17

Well, I am getting to trust AI more and more, but we just did a thing how I shouldn't. So yesterday. All right, Dave, um, anything to add? This is right up your alley, Dave Chesky. Anything to add to the scope of work? This is a kind of a critical kind of point in the RFP or not?

SPEAKER_03 6:34

It is, it should define the the method and materials in detail, um, not only for contract purposes, but also um for that for that bidding process to make sure you're getting bids on an apples to apples basis. If you bid it out to five different contractors, you want them all bidding on the same materials and the same method so you can have a comparative and competitive bid bid process.

SPEAKER_02 6:57

You know, Corey, Dave just mentioned something interesting I think we should backtrack on. Why can't I just have AI do my RFPs nowadays? I mean, it's so amazing. Why do I need to call Dave Chesky on my multi-million dollar project? I could save some money.

SPEAKER_05 7:13

I I think you're still better off with the people who have their hands on the pulse of the industry. You know, everything's changing on a daily basis in terms of prices and materials. Um and and you know, people like Dave have the contacts and the actual networks um to get you the best prices.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

So Dave Chesney, bring it home. Why don't we use AI?

SPEAKER_03 7:37

Well, that's like asking AI to do your taxes. You're not gonna do that. You're gonna hire an accountant to do your taxes. You're not gonna you're not gonna uh um ask AI to do them, or for any other professional services, you're not gonna ask AI to do it for you. I mean, there's it's you need that expertise. Every situation, every condition, every building, every site is gonna have its own unique situations, details, requirements, and you really need a you know, hands-on visual human approach to determining what actually needs to be done there for the benefit of the owner.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

And Ray, I'll mean Ray, I'll chime in real quick. I think you can't sue AI if there's a mistake. So in a sort of real sort of down to the bare bones um approach, like Dave Chesky said, you you know, you hire an accountant to do your taxes. So if your accountant puts the number in the wrong place and the IRS charges you ten thousand dollars in interest, you have someone to hold accountable for the mistake. It's the same thing with RFPs. If you hire someone, a professional to prepare an RFP and the person uses the wrong engineering code when it's prepared, uh, you have someone to hold accountable. If you just go on the internet and have some you know computer uh you know terminator uh uh guy do it, uh cyborg do it, then you'd have no you'd have no recourse.

SPEAKER_02 9:11

You made it very exciting, Dave. Good imagination. Skynet. I was looking for Skynet. That's what I was looking for. We just got done talking about how this is like a contract. So I think if you don't want to use AI for your contracts, why would you use AI for this? I think that would be absolutely crazy. Um, someone in the audience is commenting, John could never have AI do his taxes because he owns properties in multiple countries. Yes, it's true with the audience. You have learned about John actually has a team. It takes 12 people to do John's taxes, and it's this big. So, because he's very, very, very wealthy, very wealthy. All right. Timeline and schedule. Corey, have you I mean attorneys are familiar with RFPs, right? Why don't you backtrack a little bit? I'm sorry. What are what is an attorney's role in an RFP? Why do you guys know about them?

SPEAKER_05 10:01

Um they're often sent to us to review prior to projects going out to bid um to make sure it's you know not missing anything. Or when the contract comes in, we compare the what terms of the contract to what's on the uh on the RFP to make sure that you know everything on there is is in there. Uh in terms of timeline and schedule, super important. I I got a call from a client this week where they went under contract for some work four years ago and it's still not done. Um and so you know there's there's you you know the contractor attorneys need to make sure that the contractor can be held accountable if projects go on forever or if they never get completed, um, or have an avenue to terminate, get your money back, and move on to another contractor.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

Dave Chesky, I think I'm gonna say this a lot today. This seems like one of the most critical aspects of an RFP to protect an association. Is that true?

SPEAKER_03 11:04

I mean, it is it is a critical aspect. You want to set boundaries and schedules and have realistic um terms in the contract for this because there's lots of things that could affect timeline and schedule, like weather and conditions, unforeseen situations.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

John, you're gonna put a punch of are you gonna put a bunch of penalties in here? If uh this protects the association, right? If if if the project is late and it causes harm to the association, is this something an attorney is gonna jump into?

SPEAKER_00 11:37

Yeah, so um it depending on the the the work in the project, but it it it's often appropriate to put in um and really are gonna use them as not as penalties, but really an incentive to get the work done on time. And if if you don't, every day that you're beyond a deadline, there's there's a price to pay.

SPEAKER_02 12:00

Greg, um, we haven't gotten involved with insurance yet, though, right? None of these aspects.

SPEAKER_04 12:05

No, none of these are insurance, although the scope of work definitely could come into play. Um, but insurance is gonna be a huge part of the RFP when we get to that topic.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

Okay. The scope of work would come into play because it's just kind of like a general statement and it could impact the insurance. Is that why you said scope of work, May? Yes. Okay. Um, Dave Chesky, instructions to vendors. Um, I don't know if the vendor is supposed to know what they're doing. Why do why do we have to have instructions and how detailed should they be?

SPEAKER_03 12:36

Well, that's that's really the methods, right? I said methods and materials earlier. Um, the instructions are the methods, details, um, you know, depending on the on the type of work, whether it's a roofing project or a siding project or a roadway resurfacing project, there's going to be different ways to do that work. And we want to make sure that the contractor is doing the work properly and appropriately, and um, you know, is is taking the material off site or or whatever needs to be done to make the site safe or to do it the way it should be done. We want to make sure that that's written out in uh in the specification.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

Dave Byrne, this could also mean instructions to the vendor on how they're supposed to submit their RFP. True or false in commentary?

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Yeah, I suppose uh the the RFP thing for me is always um challenging because I don't I'd prefer my my RFPs that are done to be devoid of contract language. I'd like them to focus exclusively on the scope of work, the service. Uh from a practical standpoint, when a contractor gets an RFP, uh he or she's bidding on the scope of work. If you include contractual terms in there like insurance requirements and all these other kinds of things, correctly, I think the vendor is bidding on those. And then when it comes to be quote unquote contract time, uh, there's a lot of misunderstandings when a lawyer starts to modify certain things uh and make them different than what is what that was that was in uh different from what was in the quote unquote RFP. So that's just a a quirk of mine I've over all these all these years. I find that to be very challenging when RFPs include contractual language as opposed to simply just what you're supposed to do and how much it's gonna cost.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

I feel like it could be challenging to do that, Dave, for yourself, right? And I'm gonna go to Corey and John on this also, right? Because you have an obligation. You guys just told me that an RFP could tie into a contract, right? So you have some legal issues you need to make sure in there. Yet, Dave, you're telling me you want to keep it simple, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:45

Yeah, I I I think I just sometimes they'll send these RFPs out and they're like signature lines on them, you know, like which means if it's signed, it's a contract, you know. And then you you oftentimes get a lot of boards or managers, they'll come back and say, okay, the board grant the board awarded the contract to you know XYZ company, please prepare a contract. You're like, you already have a contract. This is a contract. I mean, even if it, especially if it's signed by both parties, it's a contract, but it's done as a contract. It's it's like if you look at it, it's drafted as a contract. So there's a misunderstanding out there, I think, with the idea that that somehow an RFT isn't a contract and that there's a second step. There only is a second step if you create a mechanism that follows that process. That just could be my my view and my experience, but other lawyers may feel differently. It's it's really okay to have different opinion. That's just how I feel.

SPEAKER_02 15:40

Corey, um, that sounds like a great idea to me. It sounds like it'd be a lot easier for the board members to understand it and everyone else. It seems difficult. You'd have to be a really good attorney to make that happen. And I'm sure Dave is a very good attorney. But Corey, commentary.

SPEAKER_05 15:53

No, I agree with Dave completely. I think the RFP should be very simple. Um, you know, it it they really, depending upon the scope of the project, you know, if it's a landscaping contract versus you know a renovation project, you know, some need detail in terms of materials, you know, depending on the scope of the of the work. But really, the the the simpler the better. Um because number one, people don't want to read you know 10-page documents. Um, and and number two, leave the legal side, like Dave said, leave the legal side to the attorneys um and focus on the scope of the work. Because that's that's what's going to be compared.

SPEAKER_02 16:37

So, John, does the the legal, if that's even a word, of the RFP go hand in hand with the complexity of the project? Is that accurate?

SPEAKER_00 16:46

I mean, the so so I agree with Dave and Corey. The you you're better off segregating the scope of the work. And it could it could be it could be drawings. Um this way you say this is how you, for example, this is what the roof is going to be comprised of, these materials in in this fashion. Um and so this way you know that we'll call that the work, right? But the re the actual like payment terms, uh, what constitutes a breach of contract, that leave that for the lawyers. Um it's easy enough to have if you have really good specs, detailed specs, to simply attach them to a and if you want to save money, you attach them to um there's a lot of form contracts. AIA, American Institute of Architect, they have forms that are pretty good. So it's not like you're don't think you're saving money because you haven't the the engineer prepare the contract.

SPEAKER_02 17:48

Uh Dave, what if Dave Chesky, what have you seen? I mean, obviously you see a lot of these, so what's your opinion of this?

SPEAKER_03 17:56

Yeah, I mean it it depends on the scope, right? Of what the what the actual work is. If it's a landscaping contract or if it's a small cost contract, or I'm sorry, small cost RFP, then it should be pretty basic. Um, we tend to include things like insurance requirements and um scheduling, schedule, and like even that the contractors required to supply a portable toilet on site, um, you know, to that level of detail, because sometimes it doesn't go to the attorney. We don't know whether or not it's going. We we always recommend that it does, but that's up to the up to the board and the association whether or not they they get a contract or not. Um many times um they'll send it to their attorney, and the attorney just drafts like a um addendum to the to the general requirements um to define the specifics of any additional language that should be included in there that's not addressed in our general requirements, or or even revising some of the requirements in our general requirements.

SPEAKER_02 19:02

So, Corey, I can see this really quick as like a cost savings issue too. Like you should keep if you hire a new attorney, maybe you're not used to before, and you start getting back an RFP that has a whole bunch of legal content, you may be paying for a bunch of stuff that you don't need. Is that accurate?

SPEAKER_05 19:17

Or it could be wrong. Um, if you're using AI to put the legal content in, it it may be citing incorrect statutes, or uh I I've seen a whole gambit of crazy stuff lately with with AI. So yeah, I keep it simple, keep your costs down. Um, and and I think the goal of I think the message of today is to to focus on on the uh on the scope of work.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

Okay. Uh don't worry, Greg. I know insurance is involved in this like big time. Um, you know, vendors, Greg, why don't you touch upon that? I know that's a major insurance issue.

SPEAKER_04 19:55

Well, I just want to address what we were talking about. The insurance can really change the pricing of a contract from the vendor standpoint, the contractor that's doing the work. So if you don't outline whether a$5 million umbrella is required for this job or not going to be required for this job, you definitely can mess up the RFP in the bidding process if you don't set some parameters on what insurance and what expectations are taking place. And mainly obviously talking about larger jobs than you know, a much smaller RFP for a landscaping project. Um, but you definitely want to watch that because that will blow up between the RFP process and go into the attorney that I didn't contemplate in this part of the insurance, and that's going to cost the contractor an extra 60 grand or 100 grand.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

For most RFPs, Greg, is it a is it a best practice to definitely send it to your insurance rep?

SPEAKER_04 20:48

I believe it is. And in general, with these, once you send it to the insurance rep and it's for a maintenance repair or construction type contract, generally those terms for insurance, they're not going to change much unless you have a huge variation of the project. So once you decide these are my contractor requirements for insurance to work on our property at our association, it's not something that necessarily has to get reviewed five times a day. Um it's gonna pretty much stick through, but you want to be consistent with that because it can really change the bidding process. And your insurance rep is not gonna charge you for that for the most part. Correct. And then we can get into the actual coverage aspects because it's shocking the number of times we see the contractor awarded the bid is not actually covered to do the work that he said he was going to be doing.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

So it sounds to me like it would be crazy not to send it to your insurance rep. We resolve a lot of those issues. I also think even though you don't want to admit it, you guys can pick up on other stuff sometimes that you know, and not that that's why people are content.

SPEAKER_04 21:52

Correct. You're supposed to focus on the insurance section, though. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

But you know RFPs.

SPEAKER_04 21:57

You do see a lot of them, yes.

unknown 21:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Um, really quick, I want to get this out of the way. If you're here for CEUs, you need to click enter CEU. Okay, Byrne, you don't need to do it. You're not here for CEUs. Neither is John, neither is Greg. If you're here for CEUs, enter CEUs. I need to do that for CMI C V. Don't say I didn't tell you. Don't say I didn't give you plenty of time to do it. If you're here for CEUs, go ahead and do this, especially if you're watching the recorded version. Okay. All right. So evaluation criteria. Dave Chesky, why is this in here? What is it? What does it mean?

SPEAKER_03 22:33

Uh in what context evaluation?

SPEAKER_02 22:36

I love when I have a slide and I go to the panel and they have like no idea what it is because obviously I'm just taking this slide's been around a long time.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

Um I can't really I can't really see the slide either. I can't ever see the slide. I can't, the the box isn't big enough for me to see the slide.

SPEAKER_03 22:52

That might just be your screen, David. Yeah, it's your screen.

SPEAKER_01 22:55

Everyone else is. Just telling. I'm just laying it out there.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

Just tell them like it is. Well, thanks for the keeping it real. Keep it a real. Sorry you can't. I'm sorry you can't see it. Thanks for sharing. Keep it a real. Um evaluate of what? Hold on. I'm gonna I'm gonna read my notes. I have notes on everything. I do work kind of hard at this. Define the right, define the criteria that will be used to evaluate the submitted proposals. This could include factors like experience, cost, technical capabilities, past performance, and compliant with requirements. So I guess they're talking about evaluating the RFP or multiple ones.

SPEAKER_03 23:27

Yeah, so when you go out for competitive bidding, you you get you get bids bids back. Um you have to evaluate them for uh to make sure there's no errors, to make sure that the contractors are uh capable and qualified to do the work. Um, typically in a set of specifications or a bid form, um, we would require uh a contractor reference sheet so we can check references, similar projects. Um, depending on the work, we'll ask the contractors to provide an equipment list to make sure that they have the proper equipment. We'll ask if they're going to uh include any subcontractors on the work as we want to make sure who else is going to be brought in on the job and whether or not they have the proper insurance requirements and all other requirements. Some projects might require bonding. Um, we'll ask for bank references. Um, we we need to vet these contractors and make sure that they're qualified to do the work that's specified.

SPEAKER_02 24:25

Dave, will an engineer ever just evaluate an RFP or do they actually need to be managing the vendors? Dave Chesky.

SPEAKER_03 24:35

Managing the vendors, meaning like uh watching the work?

SPEAKER_02 24:39

I think they're I think they're asking, like, um, I have a project going on here, it's a good sized project, you have nothing to do with it. Besides, all I want you to do is evaluate the RFP. I don't want you to be involved in it any other any other way.

SPEAKER_03 24:50

We can we can take a look and give an opinion. That's what it's going to be, is an opinion.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

Why why are you hesitant about that? It it seems almost like having a third party look at it would be maybe a little bit more safer than having somebody that has a skin in the game.

SPEAKER_03 25:08

Um, it's just that the design, you know, what is what are we what are we evaluating based on? Uh you know, the scope of work is not going to be specified. So um, you know, it may be difficult to evaluate it based on that, but whether or not the contractors are qualified to do that specific scope, you know, it really depends on what exactly is is being done in terms of scope and you know how there's there's lots of things that could, you know, determine the viability of of that of that work.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

Yeah, you don't want to have to do an entire investigation to give an opinion on something that's so complex that you weren't in the process in the beginning, basically, right? You're and you're also probably uncomfortable because you're relying on other people's work, I guess, to a certain extent. I don't know. That seems like what it is.

SPEAKER_03 25:54

Or a scope of work that's so open-ended, and we might just come back, and our opinion might be this is way too open-ended. And there could be lots of change orders and lots of extras, and you know, things like that, and it becomes an issue.

SPEAKER_02 26:08

Greg, what is bonding?

SPEAKER_04 26:13

Bonding for the job. Um, you could end up with a uh bid and performance bond. So the bid is if you are awarded the bid and for some reason you didn't meet the requirements for the bid, it's you've you would the association would be able to go against that bid if the contractor went and disappeared on the bond. And then a performance bond is going to be based on you meeting and following through that whole scope of work on the bond, that you'd have a performance bond for the amount of the job. And if you failed to meet that, it's the financial aspect for the customer to go after for you not meeting um that contract.

SPEAKER_02 26:50

And this is insurance, right, Greg? You get this through your through an insurance. Yes, yes. This seems very important to me to have this in certain cases. Do you agree? Yes.

SPEAKER_04 27:02

Yes, this is on the contractor's insurance, or this is insurance a contractor is going to get, not something the association is going to be able to obtain.

SPEAKER_02 27:10

Dave Byrne, is this something that gets overlooked sometimes, or do you think, I mean, if you're not using an engineer, obviously if you're using an engineer as a prime example, they're going to catch it. But the average person that tries to do this on their own, do you think they overlook this, Dave Byrne?

SPEAKER_01 27:23

Well, in my experience, performance bonds are overlooked because they cost a gazillion dollars. I mean, they're they're not they're not practical uh in the real world. You know, when you're doing repairs on the New York Fruitway or on the New Jersey Turnpike, you get contractors to put up performance bonds. Performance bonds uh guarantee the work, the quality of the work. That's not what insurance is. Insurance is to provide coverage for accidents, things that happen, you know, guy drops a piece of steel on his foot, you know, that kind of thing. Um, that's what insurance is for. Performance bond is like if the work isn't done correctly, the performance bond company has to hire people to fix it and finish it. That's not what insurance is. So the cost disparity is remarkable. I mean, most associations can't even would not be able to afford a performance bond. It'd be unrealistic to ever even try to get one.

SPEAKER_02 28:18

In my Corey, Corey, opinion on performance bonds or commentary.

SPEAKER_05 28:23

Yeah, typically our associations only do it for massive projects, you know, if it's you know million dollars or an above, maybe, um, because of the price. And and that price, you know, and that's something to put into an into an RFP is whether or not the association is going to require a performance bond.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

Right, because it's a bit the bid will be a lot higher, right?

SPEAKER_05 28:44

A lot higher. It's it's not the contractor paying for it, it's you it's the association ultimately paying for it.

SPEAKER_02 28:51

Right. John, commentary.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Yeah, so I mean, it used to be, you know, in any substantial contract, you should think about getting a payment bond or performance bond. Uh, but Dave's right, they're so expensive that I would say, like, unless you're doing a million dollars worth of work, um, it might be cost prohibitive. Um, they're not they're not cheap, they're great to have because you have actual money. Um I I'll give you a really uh common example at condominiums, is um usually the and it's a the developer gets it, they they post a uh a bond with the town to uh if they at the end of the job, if they fail to do the top coat of the road, the town could take that money and do the top coat of the road. So that's kind of like an example of of it. But um for most condo projects, it's gonna be cost prohibitive.

SPEAKER_02 29:48

Dave, who's gonna? I meant this seems complex, right, Dave Chesky. Whether or not a board should get a performance bond, because we're always talking about they have an obligation to protect the association, but then it's a lot of money. How can boards go about evaluating whether or not they should get one, or can they not? And they have to maybe hire someone like yourself.

SPEAKER_03 30:10

Um, yeah, I mean it's it's they have to evaluate the scope of the project, the cost of the project, um, and whether it makes sense. Do they have you know engineering involved? Um, and what the payment terms are, how the payment terms are laid out. Um, because if you lay out the payment terms uh you know well enough, there is some protection afforded there. Um make sure the contractor is not ahead on payments, uh, you know, not ahead on the on the work uh versus the payments, and always hold back a retainage. So there's monies there uh for addressing any you know issues that uh that might come up after the work is done, or um again the payment schedule maybe should be laid out so that um there's progress payments and the contract gets paid only for what the work what work has been done and there's no payments uh you know ahead of time.

SPEAKER_02 31:05

Greg, why are insurance agents so greedy when it comes to performance bonds? No, why don't you give me why don't you give me the last word on performance bonds? Because everybody just kind of like gave them a hard time with that.

SPEAKER_04 31:15

As Dave kind of alluded to, bonds really aren't insurance, they're a financial tool. And when a contractor is going for a bond, the um tax document financial forms and the financial strength that that contract's to show just to even be eligible to obtain a performance bond is so strong, it eliminates many of the contractors, and then you do get to the price point on it. Um, because a lot of bonds do end up paying the price is very exorbitant. So we definitely don't see them as many on association projects.

SPEAKER_03 31:45

And and that well, one of the reasons why we ask contractors for performance bonds uh whether or not they have a bonding company. We don't necessarily ask them to provide the performance bond or the cost of it unless it's specifically requested. But we because the of what Greg just alluded to, that's why we ask them to provide the bonding company because of the strict requirements for the contractor to be able to obtain it to begin with. That just kind of signifies that the contractor is qualified and capable.

SPEAKER_04 32:17

Correct, Dave. Just being eligible to obtain a bond shows a lot of financial strength for the contractor.

SPEAKER_02 32:24

Dave Byrne, the audience wants to know if you're running a copy center today because you seem to be doing a lot of folding and stapling. We're all watching you. You're doing a lot of collating.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

Um I have a mailer to get out today.

SPEAKER_02 32:38

Okay, yeah. I don't know if you're having a legal business and you're running around a copy center on the side right now because you're obviously very comfortable doing your copy work and folding in front of us all. So we appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

Michael Scott uh is over over there and he um he wants me to finish my uh assignment.

SPEAKER_02 32:56

Um budget and pricing. Uh budget, budget, budget. Corey, I mean, I don't know, is this a legal aspect? Um, should I be asking you about it? Should it be in there? I guess it should. You take it.

SPEAKER_05 33:09

That's probably more of a business aspect uh for for the firm um to make sure they can afford the project uh and how they're gonna pay for it. Um but uh you know it can be a legal um aspect uh in terms of how it's gonna be paid, if a special assessment needs to be raised uh in that to that effect.

SPEAKER_02 33:32

And I know Dave Chesky, these all involve you. I'm just kind of saving saving you for last here. Um do you I just jump to you, Dave Chesky, and this is something also if it's a complex project, you're gonna have to have a qualified professional involved, I assume.

SPEAKER_03 33:48

Yeah, well, part of part of laying out the scope is laying out the the um bid items that will would be priced, depending on what scope it is. And a lot of it can be unit price based, and you want to hold the contractor to the cost that they are bidding on over the course of the project. Um, and even if it's a lump sum bid, you want to make sure that that becomes part of the contract, and that's stated in the RFP clearly that the contractor is providing these services for X amount of dollars, and that that's that that encompasses uh all the work. There could be you know items in the scope that are um you know if if and where required type of work items. Again, the contractor would provide unit prices for those specific scopes or specific materials or what have you, and then those costs would need to be kind of upheld through the through the process of the project.

SPEAKER_02 34:51

Okay, Dave Byrne, can you mute? Because you are so noisy today. Oh my, oh my gosh. I'm at just with the clicking.

SPEAKER_01 34:59

I don't want to do anything.

SPEAKER_02 35:01

I'm at it is so distracting me with the clicking and everything. Okay. Um budget and pricing, contractual terms and conditions. John, legal, legal, legal, and legal, correct?

SPEAKER_00 35:18

Yeah, I mean contractual terms and conditions, that's what you have your attorney for. And again, um best practices is you could look to the AIA form contracts, and they have they have um very good terms and conditions. So so importantly, uh how are you gonna pay the contractor? Are you gonna have what they call as retention or retainage? So you're gonna hold back 10% at the end of the job. Um, another important aspect are you gonna have payment requisitions? Are you gonna have um so they're called like progress payments? We we pay you as you go, but you gotta show how much you did, and then the if you have an engineer and architect, they have to sign off that you actually did that. Those are best practices, retention and progress payments. So those are among the important terms.

SPEAKER_02 36:08

And Greg, I'm gonna go to everybody on this one, but the insurance falls under this, right? I guess because it's a condition.

unknown 36:15

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 36:15

If you don't have a separate slide for insurance, then yes, the insurance you want your lawyer to put together, but he should work with a licensed insurance agent who knows community associations. Um, and then that's gonna really vary um in many ways. I'm gonna talk about New York for a second, where obviously each state or each territory could have different insurance issues. We have scaffold law, um, labor law, where there's a height problem where you could have a contractor as insurance, but he's not covered for his employees falling. Um, we have issues where we've had contractors been awarded a roofing contract. However, they're with an insurance company that excludes roofing work in New York State. Um, so you need to one, make sure the terms are clear in the contract or when they're accepting it. And then even after it, you want to make sure the insurance agent reviews the certificate that comes in. Now, the certificate may only be good for the day that we see it, but at least make sure that the company and the forms are covering the type of work that is being done.

SPEAKER_02 37:15

I think the insurance is so important, this, Greg. I really do. I mean, I think the insurance is critical in an RFP. I mean, you obviously agree, right?

SPEAKER_04 37:22

I agree. It is critical, but it's usually the afterthought, and it causes some contracts to blow up afterwards because it wasn't it wasn't communicated well back and forth.

SPEAKER_02 37:35

Someone is asking, are you uncomfortable talking about insurance unless there's an insurance slide behind me?

SPEAKER_04 37:42

I didn't think I was supposed to bring up insurance. I didn't want to get yelled at for talking about insurance when it says contractual terms.

SPEAKER_02 37:49

You've done too many of these now, where it's become like it's it's traumatizing now, unless I put up insurance. I'll make sure I figured insurance involved everything. So I figured you would like jump in and out throughout the entire through the entire thing. Um one thing I don't have a slide on, which somebody just sent me over, was and I'll start with Dave Chesky, because this is like a big item, because at my building here, we're having a million things done. Changeovers. And it and I kept hearing like the board was defending here at my building changeovers, changeovers and percentages, and it's not too high. And if it's too high, you're not doing a good job with your contract, and it's always you're always gonna have a certain amount of changeovers. Can you talk about changeovers?

SPEAKER_03 38:30

Change orders, you mean?

SPEAKER_02 38:31

Change orders. I'm sorry, what did I say?

SPEAKER_03 38:34

Changeovers.

SPEAKER_02 38:35

Oh, sorry. Okay, change orders.

SPEAKER_03 38:39

Yeah, I mean a change order is is is just that. It's it's something uh additional and extra that's unforeseen that's not specified in the scope of work. They happen because of unforeseen conditions, but if the scope of work is tight and includes everything, the change order should be minimal. Um, but they do happen and they need to be substantiated. Um, you know, you need to make sure that they're actually needed and not part of the scope of work.

SPEAKER_02 39:06

Cory, one other reason I'm bringing this up, um, people here, you know, residents always always aren't nice. And they basically accuse people of setting in faulty proposals because there's a lot of changeovers late later, right? They say if there's a high changeover rate, that it was kind of shady business with the original contractor. Um, in some ways that could be accurate, correct, Corey, to a certain extent.

SPEAKER_05 39:32

I mean, the argument is that the contractor had, you know, if you choose the lowest price or the lowest bid that they that you know that they're gonna make their money on on change orders. I don't think, you know, maybe some some do that, but I don't I don't think that's you know the standard or or the practice. I think most contractors are accurately trying to predict um the scope of the work. But when they get into the project, you know, they open a wall and and the conditions that they were told were there or that they expected to be there are not what's on the ground. And that's usually what precipitates a change order. Um, you know, there's always the people who change their minds, they don't like the way something aesthetically looks after they've approved it and it's been built. But I think more often than not, you know you open up a wall and you know it's filled with mold or or you know it it's it's not what was expected.

SPEAKER_02 40:29

So, Dave Byrne, a lot of the changeover issues though. I'm playing devil's advocate here, should be in the RFP though. But I guess theoretically you can't foresee every issue that could come up. But you should not have changeovers for items that should have been known during the original proposal, correct?

SPEAKER_01 40:50

Yeah, I guess I don't I sort of outside my outside of I mean my bailiwick, I guess. I don't know, there may be there may be particular jobs. I would I would venture to guess that when you do an RFP for an annual landscaping contract, I can't imagine you'd have many changes. But if you know you're dealing with a building that was um you know uh a hospital built in 1940 that was renovated in 2010 to be a 200-unit condominium and they left all the original stuff in there and it's a hundred years old, and you may not know what you have until you open up a wall. So I mean that that to me is conceivable, you'd have changes.

SPEAKER_02 41:31

I'm gonna go to Dave Chesky on this last, but John, the reason I I'm bringing up the um it's not change overs, change orders, I'm sorry, is that this is a hot item at my building here. It seems like the board is constantly defending themselves in this regard and defending the contractors. And I'm wondering if it's common in our industry, like the owners get really jump over these change orders. Like, I don't really have an issue with it for the most part. But um, do you find that also is this something that boards should look at closely because they could get some heat for it?

SPEAKER_00 42:02

I I don't see it being controversial. I just think it's it's as Dave mentioned, it's it's best practices to um, you know, before you sign everything, think it through, make sure you cover everything you anticipate, and change orders for things that you're not anticipating. And so it's an agreement to agree, right? You you still have you want the ability to, as a board, just to say, hey, you you can't bill us for extra work unless we agree.

SPEAKER_02 42:33

And Dave Chesky, Corey brought up a great example um about you open up the wall and there's a bunch of mold in there. So I guess that doesn't need to be in the RFP, or it does like what's the last word on the on the on the change orders?

SPEAKER_03 42:47

Um, yeah, I mean again, it's for unforeseen items or changes to material changes to the scope of work, if those components or items, bit items aren't in the RFP. Right? So the RFP could contain things like like framing repair or insulation replacement, like if and where type of items um that might come up as part of developing the RFP. But if it's something material that is a change from the scope of work or a material that's not on the on the on the RFP, then it's a legitimate change order. But again, it needs to be verified. It needs to be uh, you know, you need to to confirm that it's actually needed and confirm that it is additional to the RFP scope.

SPEAKER_02 43:38

And this seems like an item that would be the responsibility of a board. I'm gonna go to the lawyers on this. I meant would a manager have the ability to approve these change orders on their own, or do you I mean I'm asking you a legal question, Dave Chesky. Sorry, I'll go to the lawyers, but generally, who approves these change orders? Can the manager do it on their own, or do they need board approval?

unknown 43:59

I know.

SPEAKER_03 44:00

legal question Dave Chesky but I'm at what do you see generally oh me um I you know I think it is um you know ultimately the board approves it but the board needs a professional to again confirm that it is needed and it is above and beyond the prescribed scope of work that's in the RFP or specifications.

SPEAKER_02 44:18

Okay Dave Byrne was Dave Chesky pretty close on close on his legal definition yeah I think so I think so does anybody on the panel disagree that this definitely at the very least needs to be reported to and reviewed by the board the board should be aware of a change order. Okay excellent excellent um vendor qualifications and experience I meant um I'll go to Corey the attorney are they gonna put a bunch of language in there about this or are we gonna leave this up to an engineer if they're preparing the RFP or just leave it up to the board or the manager? Corey what's the legal aspect?

SPEAKER_05 45:00

Every time I receive a contract I always make sure a few things one is the contractor licensed in Florida it's pretty easy to look up the licenses online. Is the company registered with the Secretary of State um which to make sure that if there is a a need to file a lawsuit we're able to do so. And sometimes we find that the uh you know the the contractor who's bidding on it is using somebody else's license um so it's it's it's you know we're not we're not necessarily reference checking we're making sure that all the all the I's are dotted and t's are crossed in terms of you know what what their obligations are as a contractor are met uh legally.

SPEAKER_02 45:42

There's a lot of YouTube videos out there of like newscasters like chase reporters chasing like shady builders and they don't have licenses and they're doing exactly what you just said use um someone else's license John this could be a really shady business uh construction and and I guess any business could but I want to bring the audience back to the point about how important the RFP is and doing the proper research and and having people have your back yeah I mean so that's why I mentioned before the biggest my biggest concern is payments because I view this as if the contractor went a wall and it does happen you know would you be in a good position or would you be kind of screwed so you don't want to although I'm realistic I most contractors won't start a job without getting some money up front but once you're you get going I'm a big proponent of progress payments.

SPEAKER_00 46:40

Pay as you go don't don't really trust that you have a signed contract. You want you want to be you'll either a little bit ahead of the contractor or at least stay with it so that if the shit hits the fan pardon the expression you could hire another contract to step in and finish the work and you wouldn't be out of pocket.

SPEAKER_02 47:02

So Dave Byrne this seems like a critical item that should be a big part of the RFP right because also it protects the contractor I guess everybody wants to know when they're going to get paid and not have assumptions out there.

SPEAKER_01 47:14

Yeah but I think yeah yeah the answer is yes I think the dynamic of of this comes down to sort of what type of arrangement you have and what type of setup you have. Like John was mentioning before uh I think you know payments that are um subject to you know you submit a form and then they get approved and that sort of thing. That's generally what an engineer or does and that's but that's when you have a job that you've hired an engineer to oversee the job uh and that connects a lot of times with what John mentioned before the AIA contract. You don't have to do it that way you know like if if if you're they you generally see those things done on a large significantly large projects but in that dynamic you're actually authorizing the engineer to be kind of like a middleman fair minded arbitrator he's he or she is not your advocate he is the advocate for the job so the contractor will submit a an um an invoice the board will say well you know the the contractor wasn't very nice to me that day so we should hold back some money the engineer is supposed to say no according to this according to what I'm seeing the work was done you have to pay him whether you like it or not. So in some ways depending on how you set it up if you're if you're setting it up so that the engineer has an has authority over payments then the engineer has authority over payments whether you want to pay the guy or not.

SPEAKER_02 48:38

Hey Dave Chesney can you make a note because I want to continue with the payment thing with Corey and get Greg because I want I was hoping you could offer commentary on how valuable it could be to have an engineer deer with deal with the vendors on a regular basis than maybe somebody who is inexperienced dealing with you know construction contractors. Corey uh commentary on on payments it seems critical so I want to make sure everybody gets in here.

SPEAKER_05 49:01

Yeah um in in addition to having you know partial payments you also want to make sure that any you know that the that the subs are being paid uh no liens you know you want partial releases of the liens for each payment um you know you don't want a situation where you're paying the contractor and the contractor is not paying the sub and the sub's filing liens on the building uh it it creates a huge headache um especially if a unit owner is going to sell and there's and there's a lien on the building um because they're the ones who's gonna have to pay their proportionate share to have that released um so that's a big that's that's a big deal to take into consideration.

SPEAKER_04 49:41

Greg do insurance companies ever take sliding scale payments uh they take payments on installments yes so you're usually they're usually a little bit ahead of you but accurate but yes insurance companies obviously take payments on this aspect though I definitely think vendor qualifications is a huge part and Dave mentioned it earlier uh references is a huge part of this because you want to know that contractor if you're doing a huge roofing project that he completed other roofing projects that were 10 buildings 32 buildings and you know not everyone's going to be completely happy but that he stuck through those projects and he's got experience relevant to the job that you're looking to do and you're not his first large job.

SPEAKER_02 50:25

I think yeah it's a great I mean I I didn't even have references down which is pretty terrible.

SPEAKER_03 50:29

All right can I throw can I throw can I just yeah um with regards to what Greg's just said the references that that I mean I just I want to over express the the importance of that because not only do you want to make sure the contractor can handle the the scope and scale of the project but in our in the in the community living environment um it's it's a different type of work uh particularly with things like roadway resurfacing projects or even roofing projects these are occupied communities we can't just tell everybody to leave um remove all the cars in a community with a one way in one way out uh you know uh setup it's just not practical so if you go to a contractor and the contractor's experience is based on milling and paving highways or municipal roadways it's gonna be a little different for that contract to work within a community that's occupied that needs to be staged and it's much slower work you know there's not nearly the production um that they'll see when you know doing the municipal or highway work. So you want to make sure that those those vendors are um specifically that that those vendors have specific experience in the community living environment.

SPEAKER_02 51:49

You know Dave let me let Dave Ches let me ask you this then um here at my building we have a high impact project going on I'm on the 29th floor all our outside decks have been getting done for the last couple years our parking lot is getting uh fixed or a parking deck is getting there's a tremendous amount of contractors here and I would and they're literally right outside your door sometimes right working on your deck. I would say they've been excellent. I mean I would say the impact that they don't play loud music they don't use foul language um these are things that would have a major impact on the standard of living it's hard enough having this going on here but I would say these contractors have been so respectful and they're they're even dressed appropriately is that something that how can an association make sure that happens because that has a huge impact on what you just said the this project's been going on two years and I really can't blame these guys here for making it any worse. They've made it as pleasurable as it could be or you know tolerable.

SPEAKER_03 52:48

Yeah I mean that's that's part of hiring retaining the the proper qualified contractor that you know that knows the you know the the proper you know that that directs their employees to you know appropriate behavior on a on a job like you have to keep your shirts on you have to wear hard hats you know there's there's safety requirements that they need to follow and and adhere to um you know a qualified contractor is going to have that as part of their training process with their with their employees.

SPEAKER_02 53:22

I just hope that boards for big communities understand this too because I'm living with these guys for two years. I'm seeing them in the elevators I mean we have service elevators but they're in our regular elevators a lot of times you're running into these guys and I say guys because they do tend to mostly be guys I should say people but um you're basically we're living with them and it's been about two years and I have to say I think they've done an excellent job as far as being respectful to the community. But you know Dave Chesky I can see that definitely being not the case and boy I would be pretty miserable if that wasn't the case.

SPEAKER_03 53:53

So um but that's critical right Dave the engineer would be a big part of that I guess too they would know which companies are right good performers and which ones aren't performing yeah well if you have an engineer on the project then that engineer would be visiting the the site and observing the work documenting the work and if they see something that is either unsafe or a condition that is inappropriate like workers without shirts or blasting music or using foul language they're going to say something and bring it up before it becomes a problem.

SPEAKER_02 54:22

I know you're not in the insurance business but should Greg Drelly always wear a shirt when he's seeing a client would there ever be a circumstance what about if they see a client at the beach would that be acceptable for him to not wear a shirt if it was a beach client no he should wear a shirt.

SPEAKER_05 54:37

Okay all right really quick support and maintenance that should be because I want to give you guys plenty of time for closing thoughts support and maintenance uh Corey any commentary yeah I you know one of the things I was thinking about when we were just talking about you know the the the people on the job you know in our contracts we always make sure to put in you know the level of of keeping the work site clean where materials and tools are going to be stored um you know I think those are also key things that should be in the contracts so that the work site is safe um and the the homeowners are not disrupted.

SPEAKER_02 55:16

I agree I mean if you're bored and you don't want to get elected next time have you know someone like myself having to live with a bunch of rude contractors leaving cigarette butts around and playing loud music. That has just not been the case here it's just been excellent. And you know what Corey they do a very good job at storing their materials and they I think they did the best job that they could for such a large scale project. Contact information supposedly a lot of people forget this according to the best practices of my research I find this hard to believe um but I guess panel I'll start with John there's a lot of little stuff you may forget if you don't have a professional help you out.

SPEAKER_00 55:52

True or false John No there are I mean Corey mentioned it before something as minor as check the the Department of State site to make sure that the entity that you're contracting with is actually an organization formed in in your state um you'd be surprised how many times it's it's it's something else.

SPEAKER_02 56:13

Why is this in here day burn? Why did I I put this why did I make this stand out?

SPEAKER_01 56:18

I don't know why well I I um the the the interesting nuance that John just answered and you guys are talking about too is like there are on a state by state basis there's a lot of differences and there's really interesting things that you really have to that a lawyer and I guess even an engineer would pick up on over over time. Like in New Jersey we have this thing called the Prompt Payment Act which for 30 plus years of doing this I don't think a contractor even realized existed. And now in the past couple of years a couple of them have figured it out but the courts have said that it can be negotiated away. So I slide a provision in my contracts that I use where the contractor weighs any rights it it may have with respect to the Prompt Payment Act. I I use the citation so they don't look it up because if they see Prompt Payment Act they go, ooh what's that about so you put the the the you put the the the lawyer thing there's designations the lawyers use to look stuff up you put that in so you can contract that away because that that per that provision is pretty is pretty solid uh for a contractor uh it allows for legal fees it allows for other things if a contractor sends you a bill and you ignore it um you're in trouble you don't have to pay it you just have to respond in a certain amount of time with why you're not paying it uh and that's a pretty could be a pretty draconian statute which a lot of contractors haven't figured out how to use yet but these are the kinds of interesting things you can deal with in a contract you can contract that away same thing like Cory mentioned before about liens you can contract in New Jersey at least you can in Pennsylvania you can contract that away you can a contractor can waive the right to do that. But that's not something that will if it's left out of the contract or if it's left silent a contractor would have those tools available to to it even if you don't know they exist they'll find out later. You know what I mean these are things you have to know ahead of time to protect yourself.

SPEAKER_02 58:09

What I heard David is you definitely want to use an attorney because there's you'll know all the attorney tricks to better protect the association that you're not going to know otherwise.

SPEAKER_01 58:17

Yeah and if you don't if your attorney doesn't know the tricks then you'll have someone to call when it's screwed up.

SPEAKER_03 58:21

All right let me do a question really quick because I want to do closing thoughts should a major national property man shouldn't the major national property management companies have ready-made boilerplate RFPs for common standard contracts and also supply a list of vetted contractors to their site managers it seems like our community is always starting from scratch with unknown vendors and incomplete contracts without corporate support very quick answer Dave Chesky again I mean it depends on the on the scope you know if it's a if it's a landscaping contract on sorry landscaping RFP or or it's it's a minor RFP snow plowing or whatever then yeah I mean it probably a boilerplate contract that is used on in multiple properties can be you know used as a boilerplate. But if it's a large scope large contract then it needs to be site specific.

SPEAKER_02 59:16

I thought they all had vetted contractors for the most part the large ones they're a preferred contractor list. Is that the same thing Dave?

SPEAKER_03 59:23

Yeah uh yeah as far as contractor lists yeah I mean they're they're contractors that are again you know involved in community living industry involved in CAI um that's you know um management companies will have experience with them from other properties and then they'll kind of take them along to you know throughout all their properties Greg Durelli closing thoughts you have three seconds when things go wrong on your contract this is the first thing you're gonna go and look at so make sure you put the time and effort into it to begin with that it's done right because it's gonna help you in the long haul.

SPEAKER_02 59:59

You are good.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:00

You great job I mean all right uh Corey very quickly closing thoughts I think the boilerplate and the uh the the management company references are a good starting point but obviously those contracts before they're signed need to go to the attorney uh to to to either have a an uh an addendum done uh or be redrafted specific to that job oh if you can do the CEUs I would appreciate it um CEUs good time to check the CEUs right now uh John while this is up closing thoughts my closing thought is don't hesitate to use professionals especially an engineer or an or architect when you have a significant contract they could not only prepare the the scope of work but they could also handle the um payment approvals process okay and once again audience do the CEUs if you need them use your question feature Dave closing thoughts Dave Byrne yeah I I'll tag off of of John um which which is that it did you you know consider you using professionals but I'll say also that not all not all arrangements are and not all jobs are are created equal some require a more intensive effort when it comes to the scope of work and the contract and some don't you know yeah some uh professional large you know large or otherwise professional management companies should have a snow removal contract specification I think the lawyers still do the contract but the specification for that I I would think you wouldn't need to hire an engineer for that kind of thing but but there may be a bigger job where it'd be a mistake not to so you have to really look on a case by case basis I think Dave Chesky last word on today yeah um you know um it's all a matter of transferring liability um you know you want to make sure that you're you know on those large scale projects it's not only it's not only preparing the RFP and um approving invoices but it's also documenting the work.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:59

So if there's an ever an issue later on in the future if something was not done properly it's documented you have the the the the information to either go back to the contractor with um that would legitimize that that issue and and uh be able to take corrective measures on it.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:17

All right well thank you thank you thank you panel thank you audience for being here much appreciated and I hope to see everybody soon thanks everybody bye thank you bye bye