Parking Garages & Concrete Nightmares: What Managers Must Catch Early

Parking garage and concrete problems rarely appear overnight — they usually start as small cracks, leaks, rust, water intrusion, worn sealants, or hidden deterioration that managers and boards may walk past for months or years. In this discussion, Scott Baryiewski of South Shore Construction and Tanner Oldenburger, PE, RS of Reserve Advisors explain the early warning signs managers should recognize, why water and salt are major enemies of concrete structures, how small maintenance issues can turn into major structural repairs, and why reserve planning is critical before a garage or façade project becomes overwhelming.

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YouTube: https://youtu.be/qmSQUJcW8YA

Register for OnDemand 1h CEU Video - Parking Garages & Concrete Nightmares: What Managers Must Catch Early on Jun 9, 2026 12:00 AM EDT at:
https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/register/8571071825597884254
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The conversation also covers when to call an engineer versus a qualified contractor, why not every contractor is suited for structural concrete or garage restoration work, how staging and resident disruption affect major projects, and why boards should think carefully about maintenance plans, inspections, funding, and long-term reserve strategies.

Scott Baryiewski • South Shore Construction, Inc. • ssconstruction@verizon.net • www.ssc.contractors

Tanner Oldenburger, PE, RS • Reserve Advisors, Inc. • tanner@reserveadvisors.com •  www.reserveadvisors.com

Raymond Dickey • AssociationHelpNow.com • ray@brainerdcommunications.com • www.AssociationHelpNow.com

This content does not constitute professional advice.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

I'm gonna leave it in there because I think it's humorous. It's because you don't have a crew around you, Scott. You can't that's right. You can't, I mean you could fix major construction deck, major concrete decks, but you can't handle the tripod on your own without your team. That's it.

SPEAKER_03 0:20

You know, we're we're hands-on, not not technology, you know.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Okay. Ray Dickey from Association Help Now, South Carolina CAI, Hudson Valley C AI. We are many states. Thank you so much for being here. We are going to talk about concrete. If you've ever laid it in bed at night and you're having nightmares about concrete, you're going to get your answers tonight. And hopefully they will alleviate your nightmares. I hope so. We'll see. With that being said, let me have our panel introduce themselves with who I see first, and that is Scott.

SPEAKER_03 0:52

Yeah, uh, thanks, Ray. So uh uh hi everybody. Uh my name is Scott Barieski. I'm the owner of South Shore Construction. We're located in Roselle, New Jersey, and we perform building facade and park and garage repairs throughout the state of New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and New York. And we work with uh property managers, building owners, uh, and uh, you know, design professionals throughout basically the tri-state area.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

And Scott, you do some major projects. We're talking about big projects, also, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:22

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we do projects of all sizes from uh, you know, even a few thousand dollars up to uh millions of dollars in in uh single projects. And um, you know, uh we do everything from uh you know uh maintenance work to uh large structural restoration.

unknown 1:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Uh Tanner.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Uh thanks for having me, Ray. Tanner Oldenberger, Reserve Advisors. Uh I'm uh our VP of Engineering and uh Reserve Advisors does reserve studies nationwide. So after Scott executes and does the projects, we're analyzing and forecasting to help associations prepare for their next projects.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

All right. I have to mention one thing right off the bat. Scott, have you noticed how much nicer Tanner's office is compared to your office? Do you think that's normal for like a concrete guy like yourself not to put any effort into his office? Because it appears you put zero effort into your office.

SPEAKER_03 2:16

Yeah, well, you know what? Listen, you know, they're guys that are uh, you know, primarily office-based, you know, and and and I'm a lot in and out in the field, so it makes sense to me.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

All right. Well, we'll leave it at there, Tanner. I don't know what he was really kind of saying. I think he's saying that you're behind your computer all day and he's out in the dredges doing the market. He's not wrong either. So all right. So I thought I would start off with some early warning signs. Uh, and I I produced, I grabbed a bunch of questions in advance here. So, what are the top if you are here for CEUs today, you need to follow our instructions. So, this is gonna pop up and you need to use your question feature. Find the question feature. You need to be in our go to webinar system if you're here for CEUs. If you're just watching on YouTube and you don't care about CEUs, it doesn't matter. If you're on the go to webinar and you want CEUs in order to keep CAMICB happy and I want to keep them happy, you need to utilize your question feature and just write in CEUs or I need CEUs. And I'm gonna ask you to do that a couple more times during the program. So if you need CEUs, pay attention. If you don't, uh maybe you can relax a little bit. And what are the top three early warning signs? Managers are walking past every day in garages or facades, Scott.

SPEAKER_03 3:35

Um, I think a couple things would be uh cracks, right? If you're seeing cracks in the floors, the walls, and the ceilings, uh that would be one thing. Another thing is uh leaks, just seeing leaks happening in your parking garage, right? That's something that that you should be looking at and saying, why is this leaking? Because it shouldn't be, and it wasn't once upon a time when it was when it was built. Um, and um, you know, I would say another thing would be rust. If you're seeing steel rusting, it's a sign that it's starting to have some issues. So, I mean, there's more than three, but you know, those are the first ones that come to mind.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

You know, Tanner, some people may think, well, that's such an easy question, right? Those are such obvious signs that there's an issue. But Tanner, I see the photos that Scott puts on his LinkedIn account, they are horrible. When he's called in, it literally looks like these garages are gonna fall down. Why do you think that happens in our industry? Why do you think people walk by these issues all the time, yet a phone call is never made?

SPEAKER_02 4:36

Yeah, I just because these things don't happen overnight generally. Sometimes you do have a big spall that you'll have loose concrete that lands on a car on the ground. Obviously, that's you know, call an engineer and you get that fixed. But sometimes you have a crack that starts as a 16th inch and then turns to a quarter, and then it's half inch wide, and those things can grow and exasperate not overnight, but over the periods of weeks and months. You can have a leak that's a small stain that grows that over time gets worse and worse. So it's um it's people getting used to walking by these conditions, and as they slightly worsen, um that's when the issues start to happen.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

Interesting. I never had anybody put it that way. So they sneak up on people, but you don't notice it because you get used to it.

SPEAKER_02 5:23

Generally, that's what we see is you know, or another thing too, is it's covered up. Sometimes we see water get into garages and we'll see gutters put up or some um um some metal panels to have the water diverted somewhere else. So you're hiding it and almost avoiding the issue, and then you pull that gutter down, and lo and behold, uh the concrete's not in great shape. So sometimes it's hidden behind sight uh as well.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

So, Scott, what does a um a cheap fix look like? I mean, I also see a lot of your photos where it looks like some previous contractor has been out there and it just doesn't look good. What's the difference? How can we tell if something's a cheap fix?

SPEAKER_03 6:05

I mean, so some of the cheapest fixes are related to just uh regular sealant maintenance, right? So sealant meaning like cough, right? So um, you know, there's cough around all different sorts of transitions, um, you know, around drains, um, you know, floor to walls, uh, different things like that. And and so uh that's actually pretty inexpensive to replace and maintain. You probably have to do it, uh, you know, it it's it's you know, it varies, but let's just say an eight to 12 year range would be a reasonable time to do it. Um, that's the easiest way to maintain your garage and keep water out of certain places, but most people don't do it, which leads to your more expensive repairs down the road.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

All right. So, Tanner, I'm gonna be curious if you and Scott give me the same answer, okay? A manager gives you 10 minutes on site, you're looking at a parking deck. What are you gonna look at first, Tanner?

SPEAKER_02 7:00

Uh, I'm looking at the main structural components, beams and columns, areas of the most traffic. Um and again, what we talked about earlier. If I see an exposed rebar, large cracks, that's where I'm gonna spend the majority of my time.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

How about you, Scott? You got 10 minutes. Where are you gonna head first?

SPEAKER_03 7:22

Um, I'm probably just gonna walk right down the drive lanes and look to my left and right and look for things that are obvious. Um, I think a lot of times people think, well, man, I'm not an expert. What do I look for? And it's like, well, you look for the things that actually look like a problem. It looks like a crack, it looks like rust, it looks like a concrete spall. Um, you know, it looks like something that may have moved, right? So, I mean, the the the problems are actually very apparent. Now, you might not know how to fix it or to what level the the repair uh is at that time, right? That needs a professional, but to just identify it, it's whatever you see visually that looks incorrect, it probably is.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Scott, how often are you called to a site by a manager who says, Oh my gosh, Scott, look at this. In the meantime, you see something that's 10 times worse.

SPEAKER_03 8:17

You know, uh that's probably 50-50. Um, you know, uh uh usually when there's one thing that's like really bad, it's not an isolated incident there. I mean, there's other problems that are occurring. Like if you have like a really severe condition, there's other severe conditions that are there. Um, you know, uh, but uh you know, it's it's uh probably 50-50 is a fair estimate on that one.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

Tanner, 50-50 is terrible. Do you agree?

SPEAKER_02 8:47

It is. I mean, that that probably shows that you're getting to the problem too late if if you're out there and if there's other significant issues.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

So Scott, what is a misleading it looks fine condition that it actually isn't fine?

SPEAKER_03 9:08

You know what, you got me a little stumped there. Um it looks fine, but it isn't fine. Um, you know, I mean, probably, you know, probably most of the concrete's falling. Yeah, it's a small little concrete spall. Like nobody thinks it's fine, but they don't really see that the long-term implications are that that area is going to grow and worsen, and something that might be a small patch um could end up turning into a full-depth structural, serious structural repair. And so it's more so, you know, uh, you know, not not being worried about it up front and not taking care of it while it's a small minor repair and and waiting until it's a big problem before they they realize that they need to attack it. And now um not only is it more disruptive to repair, but obviously more costly.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

You know, uh, just so the audience knows too, Scott and Tanner have no idea what questions I'm gonna ask them. So there's definitely gonna be some delay. And I purposely do try to kind of ask a little questions with a little bit of gray area so they can be explored a bit here. Tanner, what do you think is a misleading? Let's say what do you think is a hidden item that people don't see that could be bad?

SPEAKER_02 10:18

Water is always the root of all evil when it comes to structures. So just a little bit of water, maybe not the biggest concern, but you don't really know what that's being done to the rebar. So that's that's one I would say is concerning. When I'm looking at beams, I'm looking for diagonal cracks or cracks towards the edges where that beam bears up against the columns. Sometimes you can have thin cracks, but that's a leading indicator side of a possible failure or deflection of that beam, so that's concerning as well. But Ray, you also asked about like pore repairs. That's another thing we often see would be surface or face repairs where you had a piece of rebar and uh exposed and concrete pop off, and you just you know patch over the top of it and really patch. But concrete needs to be a certain thickness. And a lot of times when they do a repair, I hear that they need to be able to put their hand around the piece of steel to be able to have that concrete go all around that piece of steel to be able to be strong enough to adhere. So that's another thing we see oftentimes is well, if you just smooth a little concrete over where some concrete patch, that's what we call is more of a temporary repair, where that what you want to see is more full-depth actual repairs. They're more costly, obviously, but they're more long-term uh fixes rather than just uh a band-aid on the surface.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

All right, so let's see if Scott had heard that, right? Because he would know. Scott, is it true if you put your you need to be able to put your hand around an object and you have to have that amount of room before you can repair it? Have you ever heard that?

SPEAKER_03 11:53

Absolutely. So that's like that, yeah. No, so that's an industry thing. So, so typically um uh it's you want to get minimum of three-quarters of an inch beyond the rebar. And so just like a rule of thumb in order to to to you know like figure out like what's three-quarters of an inch, because you're kind of a three-quarters of an inch kind of a tight space. And so, like one of the things is like if you can if you can actually get your fingers around the bar, uh, that's typically the the the the guide of like whether or not you've cleared the bars enough to get that right sort of grab around the the rebar when you're doing the patching.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Good job, Tanner.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

I meant we know I was hoping he wouldn't call me out there.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

I know sounds like he absolutely knew about it. Um let's talk about how small issues could turn into big money because that's a major concern, I think, for people watching. Scott, give me an example of a of a minor issue that ended up turning into hundreds of hundreds of thousands of dollars or even millions.

SPEAKER_03 12:57

Oh wow, I run into that stuff all the time. Um, you know, leaks from above that aren't taken care of, and and and it's leaking down onto um structural steel below. And what ends up happening is the the structural steel um ends up rusting and deteriorating to the point where there's holes in the steel. And what ends up happening is now you're you you have to set up all this shoring to temporarily support the parking garage, you have to uh disrupt parking and traffic flow and and have noise and all this stuff going on just to replace structural steel beams in the parking garage. Um, you know, I mean, it and it it all could have been avoided if if it was handled much earlier on. I mean, you know, because it takes a long time for structural steel to rust to a point where it actually needs to the an entire beam needs to be replaced.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

You know what's really cool, Tanner. I live in a high rise, it's uh 34 stories, and we're on top of a three-story parking garage, and we're having major repairs done in our parking garage. The how they shore things up is so fascinating because they have this big equipment right on our patio area to work on our facade. Also, it's it's really so interesting because it has to be able to support all this equipment, and it's exactly what Scott said the amount of shoring material that is throughout the garage is is interesting. It seems so not dangerous, but it just has to be done right, or it seems like there could be like a disaster.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

Yeah, that's a part of these projects that I think sometimes gets um not fully understood is mobilizing and and setting up the project of where you put the dumpsters and how you set the shoring up and how the contractors come in in and out. Like those are part of the projects that are not always thought about when you're talking about these major restoration projects. So those costs, engineering, mobilization, all those can certainly add to the we need to patch and repair these three or four items. You know, you have other things that you have to plan for when you're looking out for these projects.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

And Scott, I've been impressed too about their staging, which you know, we're gonna talk about RFPs. I mean, they did a great job with the staging of materials. The amount of materials that we have around this place and the times they move it is is fascinating and complicated. Can you talk about that a little bit? How important that is?

SPEAKER_03 15:22

Yeah, well, absolutely. I mean, that that's one reason why uh, especially in this type of work, it's not just hire any contractor. Hey, my landscaper does uh some sidewalks. Let me go get my landscaper to to to uh fix this concrete in the parking garage. It's a specialty that you have to know what you're doing. So um, you know, you have to know uh not only how to do the work, but how to coordinate it and how to phase it and maintain traffic flow and still maintain parking throughout the garage in in other areas while also blocking things off from the public, temporarily supporting them, putting the right protections in to kind of encapsulate all your debris and the different um uh uh you know dust and different things like that that that will accumulate during that period of time. And um, you know, it's certainly um uh uh unique to every project, but also similar at the same time. And and you want to go to somebody who's an expert in this and and knows uh what to do and how to do it and how to work with you, especially when you're in association with a lot of residents, um, to make sure that uh you minimize the disruption as much as possible.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

You know, Tanner, Scott brought up all the all the things that this company that we have here, I think is doing a fantastic job. And they and Scott brought up all the key issues, which was, I think, really interesting. And I think that's the difference between a company that kind of knows what they're doing and one that doesn't. We've been basically living with these guys for a couple years now, and they have not been that intrusive whatsoever. Um, I'll just bounce back to Scott. Uh, they're respectful, they they use our elevators sometimes, right? They they can't, you know, they can't be invisible, they have to get around the building. Scott, it's just so critical, I think, too, when you hire the right company that the employees understand that they're in people's homes. Do you agree?

SPEAKER_03 17:12

Oh, absolutely, right? So when you're showing up to somebody else's property, okay, uh uh, you need to make accommodations for them. Now, at the same time, they need to make certain accommodations because the work has to get done. Uh, and that's always the biggest challenge, right? It's like, how do they fix a highway? How do they fix a bridge? Well, you have to close a part of the highway or a part of the bridge in order to make those repairs, but we still need to be respectful of the fact that uh, you know, people still need to use this property, they need to access this property, and um uh, you know, we can only disrupt them so much, but even going back to a previous point that I made about hiring um uh a contractor who specializes in that in this type of work, even inside of this niche work, there's still a difference in the level to which certain companies perform. And it sounds like you found yourself a great contractor who's performing properly. Um, not everybody performs the same way in terms of you know how they communicate and how they operate and how they protect your property. And so it's very important to not just look at the price and the cost of the thing and just say, well, that you know, uh this person, you know, uh wants to charge X amount, and this person's slightly lower. Let's go with the lower guy. There's a difference sometimes, and you you know, especially in something like a multi-million dollar project, you want to learn look a couple layers deeper into that and find out who they are and what their past experience is, and and what other people feel about their experience with this contractor before you base it on the dollars.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

So, Scott, what is an item that will deteriorate the fastest if there's an issue? What what is is it is it the is it the metal, is it the beams, is it the concrete, is it the rebar? What goes first?

SPEAKER_03 19:03

Well, so I I think that's that's kind of a a challenging question to to answer, but what I would say actually is is uh the the areas of your garage that are the most exposed to the weather. So typically a top deck, um, there are parking garages that are built differently where different sections, even on different levels, could be exposed, but anything that's exposed to the weather the most, to sun, to rain, to snow, to lots of uh de-icing salts and things like that, those are the areas that that are going to experience the most deterioration. And then uh inside of that, whether it's the concrete or the steel or drains that you know, cough, that's a dog fight.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

Tanner, what do you think? What is what items do you see that just deteriorate the absolute fastest?

SPEAKER_02 19:52

Well, it dep it depends on where you are. I I agree with Scott. It's if if you're up north where you have freeze thaw and uh de-icing salts, um, or if you're on the coast um where you're exposed to salt air and corrosion can happen faster. So it kind of depends on where you're in the country. And I would agree with what he said is whether your garage is enclosed or if it's opened air, how much traffic it's getting. There's a number of factors that come into play of um you could have a top floor that gets very little traffic and an entry-level ramp or expansion joints that's just getting pounded constantly with the amount of traffic. So it it you know, it as an as a typical engineer answer, it it it depends on what's getting the most wear and tear and exposure.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

I'm trying to see if I could get different answers out of you guys. What's that?

SPEAKER_02 20:44

You're pin us against each other.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

No, I don't want to pin you against each other, but I think it's an interesting dynamic, right? Because you have the engineers, you guys are basically you're doing stuff on paper, right? I know you get out in the field, and then Scott has to put it all together. And I know that there's gonna be some, I don't think conflicts are the right word, but some common characteristics that come up all the time between engineers and contractors. So um, but that's kind of what I was getting to, but not pitting you guys against each other. Um, because you basically do two different things but the same goal. Scott, is that accurate?

SPEAKER_03 21:19

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, so uh, you know, uh I harp on uh three main things um, you know, that are the keys to a successful project, right? Um, you know, uh and something that that my company excels at, which is communication, coordination, and cooperation, right? So I call them the three Cs, uh, um, you know, or collaboration. I'm sorry, uh not uh uh cooperation, collaboration. And and collaboration is what we're talking about right here is we need to collaborate with uh both the uh you know between ourselves and uh whoever the representative of the ownership is, whether it's the ownership themselves or it might be uh property manager or something like that. And it's really the teamwork and and and good teamwork amongst All of us that make that go smoothly. And um, you know, if there's a breakdown in any one of those parts, you start to see that uh the project starts to have like a little bit more stress tied to it based on uh a breakdown of uh one of the team members.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

You know, Tanner, I think oversight is is critical though. Here at our building, now we have multiple engineers involved overseeing this work also in assisting the concrete company and the facade work. I mean, it's absolutely critical to have additional oversight involved. Do you agree?

SPEAKER_02 22:31

Yeah, I mean it's checks and balances. It it depends on whether you're doing a$10,000 project or a$10 million project. But like you mentioned, is it if if the contractor and the engineer can't agree on a path forward, there's there's going to be issues there where the contractor is recommending more work, the engineer is recommending more work, staging or prioritization, uh, they need to be in lockstep for that project to be successful. So if if you don't have that, um uh obviously that the engineer can write and scope up really anything. Um, you know, they could add a couple uh zeros to the end of the project, and the contractor can do that too. So if there's checks and balances of what's realistic, what can be prioritized, that can help in the favor of the association to make sure that uh no one's in complete in control of the checkbook of the association.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

Here's a hard question, and I'm not trying to pin you guys against each other, and I'll start with Tanner. I'm really not. Who do you go to first? You see a problem, do you call your engineer or do you call a very qualified concrete contractor, facility contractor like Scott? Who do you who do you make the call to first?

SPEAKER_02 23:47

I think if it's if it's the first time, if if if it's the first time a project's been identified or issued, I would certainly go to the engineer. If you're engaged with a contractor that's already done work and knows the history of that, then it can depend on you going directly to the contractor and working through that because they're familiar with the building and they've already done repairs. But if there's been no plan set in place or no full holistic evaluation of the garage, I would recommend starting with the engineer.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

What do you think, Scott? And I'm not trying to pin you guys against each other. I think it's a legitimate question that people have.

SPEAKER_03 24:22

No, I think it's fair. I think, I think um, you know, uh, you know, it really depends on what the situation is. Uh, but uh I think oftentimes it it can't hurt to go to an engineer because if if the engineer sees it and says, hey, that's not such a critical thing, they'll turn you to um over to a contractor and and recommend, hey, you know, that you can call up Sal Shore and Sal Shore will take care of that. So I don't think that they're gonna just you know try and uh run the bill up on you because if there's if there's nothing there, there's nothing there.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

All right, Scott. So let me ask you something about engineers. I imagine Tanner's Day, he gets in at eight o'clock, he starts doing all kinds of things that require a stamp, and he's just stamping all day, stamp, stamp, stamp. And every stamp is like kaching, like a cat, kaching, kaching, kaching. But then he and he goes home around six o'clock at night and he's had a long day of just studying papers and using a stamp. Do you agree that before we ask Tanner if that's true or false? Do you agree with that, Scott? That he's just stamping away, he's reading and stamping and just looking at documents all day.

SPEAKER_03 25:32

Uh yeah, maybe, you know, I mean, it I don't know what his particular role is, but some of them have to make site visits to you know do either inspections or you know, of of ongoing projects or or let's say um you know new projects. But uh, you know, there's probably a lot of office time to uh compile all that together and put reports together and communicate it out to the clients.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Oh, I think engineers are very comfortable all that. I think I I think Tanner, if the air conditioning goes out, Tanner's on the phone immediately. Tanner, am I right? Am I wrong about the luxurious lifestyle of engineers?

SPEAKER_02 26:05

I wouldn't necessarily call it luxurious. Our company in general, we're about a third on-site and about two-thirds in the office generally. My role is a little bit more, I oversee a lot more of the work now, but um our staff is generally going to spend a couple days on site every single week observing these items. But you also mentioned, too, we do a lot of analysis and report writing as well. So it's not 100% site work, but that being outside um a port part of the time is a big reason why a lot of people like working at our company. It's not just complete desk work, which those positions exist if you're in design, but if you're in the consulting side, you can spend a lot of time out on street.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

All right. So before I go to like concrete reality questions, things that people don't understand, let me ask you this. Tanner, this is what I see Scottsday like. He works super hard. I know his company like really well. He's super respected. He's got a great company, don't get me wrong. He gets up early, he checks in with his guys, they get their assignment, but around lunchtime, he goes to some fancy steakhouse and he meets all the other concrete construction owners because there's a small group and they basically just order really expensive steaks and hang out at the steakhouse from like 12 to 2. Eventually, there's some kind of catastrophe at two o'clock he has to handle, not a catastrophe related to his work, but something related to the office or a truck doesn't show up. And then they run back to the site and they tell the workers how hard they've been working. Tanner, am I right about what I think Scott's day is like?

SPEAKER_02 27:37

No, I I don't think Scott's spending the afternoon at a steakhouse. It looks like he's probably going to the gym to get a quick workout during that time frame. But I no, I I think contractors are going to uh especially if you work in cold winter climates, you get this small window a lot of times here in Minnesota. You get this small window. So you're gonna have your down seasons, but you're also gonna have your seasons where you're really grinding to be able to maximize the weather uh that you can work in. So I think this is Scott's probably busy season, so he doesn't get that two-hour steak lunch.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

All right, Scott, who's right?

SPEAKER_03 28:14

Well, obviously you're right. I mean, we sit around and the the part that you left out is that we're actually conspiring to control the pricing in the market. And so that's what we basically discuss over our expensive bottles of wine. Um uh that being said though, no, I mean, uh, you know, listen, it like you said, that we basically get, let's say, from from April through the middle of December to have this rush of work that we have to get done. Obviously, during the the the you know, middle of December through through uh you know March, there's things that we do, but they're way more limited because of temperatures up in the northeast and snow and ice and all those types of things. So, you know, uh you you can't be as productive as you'd like to, but this time of year, I mean, we're sprinting. Um, you know, uh I'm on the phones early, I'm in my office early, I'm working late, and uh, you know, working uh to not only uh um pick up new jobs, but service clients and and then you know, uh uh trying to uh you know be involved in in certain you know some of the the operations and oversight as well. So uh, you know, it's very busy this time of year.

SPEAKER_00 29:21

Well, that that actually brings up an interesting question because we talk about this a lot with like roofing companies. Don't call the roofing company out right after the turn the tornado. You know what I mean? You're not gonna have much much luck. They're pretty busy. Is there a certain time of year that you would recommend, Scott, calling out, you know, when is a good time of year for someone to call you for an inspection compared to a time of year that's maybe not going to be good?

SPEAKER_03 29:43

Oh, so uh, you know, engineers know this for the most part, and so they they put the bids out, um, let's say anywhere from December through February is like the most ideal time because what that does is not only is it the most competitive pricing you're gonna get, because uh whether it's myself or or one of my competitors, we're hungry for work and you're looking to fill up your plate uh early in the year um to make sure that you're gonna have a busy and productive uh season. Um so so it makes sense to do it during that time. And what that also does is it allows you time to evaluate and award the work and do all the planning. So once the weather does turn, let's say late March, early April, you're ready to start the project. If you wait until now to start getting the bids, now your project, by the time all the decisions happen, permits, contracts, now we're talking about May or later. Uh, so that's the reason why it makes sense to start early during the winter months.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

Tanner, that's why I'm glad I asked these ridiculous questions because it actually brings up an item, and I appreciate you bringing that up about the time frame. I guess you see the same thing. I meant Scott would know. Um, there is a good time to call concrete contractors compared to other times. Um I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

No, absolutely. I mean, I completely agree with what Scott said, jumping on these things early in the year. A lot of associations budget and have a long, busy year and they get over the hump, and there's that breath into the new year. But a lot of times, if associations are proactive and they start planning their capital or their large projects for the year early on in the year, they're not trying to get those crammed in towards the end of the year, they get a jump on that, and they're not reaching out to contractors where they're already booked for the year. So it's being proactive with planning these and not starting it late in the year, I think, is is a good strategy for boards.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

What's the best time to call engineers? Anytime, day or night. I figured. I didn't think you guys were gonna have a time of year that you guys were off. Okay. Water is the biggest enemy of structures. Is that true? Anyone disagree? Totally true. And is it water and freezing, Scott, or is it just water?

SPEAKER_03 31:56

I think it's water and freezing.

SPEAKER_02 32:00

I throw in salt as well. Salt's kind of an enemy for Rust.

SPEAKER_03 32:05

But agree. Yeah, I mean, so to piggyback on the on the salt, I mean, absolutely. I mean, I'm working on a job right now that uh, I mean, the concrete is in terrible shape. It's a it's a precast deck, but uh the the poured-in-place concrete is in terrible shape because the amount of uh oversalting, right? And that's always like the battle that it's it's hard for people to manage, is uh we want to make sure that we don't have uh icing, slips and falls, but then we don't want to have so much salt that it just lays there on the deck and and every time it rains, that stuff just um um you know it it dissolves into the water, the water goes into the concrete and then causes problems with your your concrete and your and your rebar. And one of the keys to dealing with that is something that almost nobody does, which is really to make sure that in the uh springtime that you rinse your deck off and you you get all that stuff off of there. Most of the people wait till the the uh the April and May rain showers kind of just cause it to dissolve into their concrete, and then they have to call myself and Tanner to uh team up to to go and repair their parking deck.

SPEAKER_00 33:19

You know what's interesting? We're I'm I'm oceanfront, so our deck can get a lot of moisture in it. And I know at some point this year they actually salted, which is kind of rare because it was so slippery in there. But you know, Scott, they didn't they used a really weird material. It was something I never saw before. It wasn't salt, it was kind of like a foam-like pellet type of material. Are you familiar with that at all? I mean, I'm doing a terrible job explaining it, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:43

I mean, uh it's actually the right stuff to use. I forget the the name of the actual chemical tanner. You might you might recall it, but um, there are certain types of salts that are better and worse uh for for your your concrete. Um and uh, you know, I mean, off the top of my head, it's it's it's escaping me, so I I hesitate to uh provide the right type. But um, but the the thing is there there are certain types like rock salts really bad for for your parking deck. So you want to uh look into that and make sure you're using the right stuff. It costs you more up front, and uh, you know, but it's gonna save you more in in you know not having to repair your concrete. And a lot of times people can't see that uh, you know, that you know, sometimes it's uh, you know, uh, you know, a little bit more, you know, here you spend a dollar to save ten dollars.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

You know, Tanner, I can see a board not knowing that for sure, right? You you got this concrete facility and you hire this landscaping company. How would you know? Like I didn't know about this until I noticed this different material that and they're gonna lay salt all over it, they're gonna basically like kind of ruin your concrete. I think this is a big deal that people don't know about.

SPEAKER_02 34:53

Yeah, no, I I completely agree. There's there's a number of items where you think you're doing you know benefit to the building and structure, and ultimately it can cause other problems. So um that's again where having boards, managers, and hiring experts to help you understand how to do maintenance um is probably important for when you're talking about some of your major assets, whether it be your roof, your facade, or your garage, um, if you're doing something to maintain it, just making sure that it's doing more um helpful to the structure rather than harmful.

SPEAKER_00 35:28

Tanner, did you I I felt like you were trying to find out what it was. Did you find out what it was? Because people are gonna email me then if we don't find out what it is.

SPEAKER_02 35:35

Calcium magnesium is coming up as a non-corrosive um potassium chloride, uh, but I'm I'm not seeing I'm not familiar with that alternative de-icing methodology, but I'm gonna look into it when we're done here.

SPEAKER_03 35:50

Yeah, I mean, everything is corrosive to some level, it's just some some are less corrosive, so it's it's it's not like any of them are great, but uh you know that's the challenge we have here is is is like it's uh even even between because I have uh conversations with property managers and or engineers about stuff related to snow plowing, and it's like you know, there's a battle between the snowplow contractor having to maintain the garage and having liability if people slip and fall because they they didn't salt enough, they didn't they didn't clear the snow well enough and and things like that. And then and then at the same time, uh you know, their level of of handling and managing the snow can sometimes end up causing damage to your parking garage, and you say, well, you know, what's the lesser evil there? That's a tough one.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

That's we all agree.

SPEAKER_02 36:40

That's a good point, just to jump. I've had a I've had a number of clients that do uh snow plowing on their top deck where they have a traffic coating and they realize that that snow plow uh was pulling up that traffic coating, so they're having to use alternative methods to remove the snow because whatever their maintenance activity is doing more harm than good there.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

So, Scott, is it safe to say that you're saying that snowplow guys are completely out of control and they're one of your best job generators? No, I know you didn't say that.

SPEAKER_03 37:10

Yeah, no, I mean the the so you're making a joke, and I and and and I I do sometimes joke with people like, yeah, I pay the snowplow contractors to mess up your parking deck because uh every year some percentage of my work is just based off of that. Um, there's a traffic coating that I put down that uh somebody that I put it down in in the summer or the fall of last year. And no matter what you send to the the the client about you know uh having uh rubber blades on your plows and being careful of you know not damaging expansion joints and things like that, ultimately there's some damage. And then in order to make sure that the system is performing properly, they have to come to me to uh repair it. And I actually have some work coming up this year uh related to that. So um, you know, it's it's a constant battle, and it's always easy to say, well, you know, just have the snowplow contractor, you know, be more careful. And it's like, yeah, well, uh on top of them being out there at two o'clock in the morning, and you know, you saw some of the storms we had this year, 18 inches of snow, and and they're visiting it numerous times, and they have many clients that they have to to service, and and and we're trying to say, yeah, just move it very gently so you don't mess up our stuff. It's so hard.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Who would expect a snowplow guy? First of all, he doesn't own the company, most likely, to be careful, like you just said, he's out all night, he's probably exhausted. He's been up 20, he's on his 30th cup of coffee, who knows what else, trying to stay awake. And he's gonna gingerly go around your parking garage so he doesn't scrape something. You're lucky if he doesn't take half the cars out while you're at it. I will say that it is tough on boards though, because the material that the company used, the residents were annoyed because it tracked more inside the facility. So the board can't win. So sorry, boards, it's really hard. I found out why they use that material, but people were mad at the board. Uh, by the way, Tanner, because this material was tracked into the elevators because it didn't disintegrate like salt. But yeah, well, there you go. You can't win. You can't win. Okay, reserve studies. What do people get? This is by the way, audience, this is what Tanner does, besides other things are reserve studies. I cannot believe everyone must have a reserve study at this point, right? I mean, a parking garage is unbelievably expensive, facade work, unbelievably expensive, right? Tanner, I would assume you're crazy if you don't have a reserve study.

SPEAKER_02 39:30

I mean, it's obvious for me to sit here and say yes, but it's it's it's liability to the board and association moving forward, essentially, is we're trying to help you understand your asset depreciation. So, like you said, Ray, if if you have if you have a multi-million dollar garage or a high rise or a facade or even a mid-rise and elevator, just assets that the association, you know, there's 50 units, you own one fiftieth of all those liabilities. And if you don't have a plan in place to understand what that because owners come in, they see the lobby, they say the hallway, but do you see the parking structure? Do you see the elevator? Do you see the HVAC equipment? There's a lot of stuff you're on the hook for. And if your board is not doing a good job managing and planning for those items, it's it's gonna be hard to sell your unit or have that unit actually appreciate if you're not planning for those.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

Like I said, you're crazy. I meant basically parking garages and facade work is unbelievably expensive. If you don't have it's not gonna last forever, and if you don't have a reserve study to be an outlook for that, there's absolutely no excuse whatsoever.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

There's also an aspect, too, of there's no one size fits all. You can't necessarily just um just plunk a dollar amount every X number of years. It comes with also understanding the situation where you're in. So I mentioned earlier you have northern climates, you have you have um you have the kind of the middle of the country that has some freeze-thaw, and then you have south. The the approaches are wildly different. So there's no one size fits all, and also depends on the age of your parking garage, too. If your garage is zero to 10 years old, 10 to 20, 20 plus, the frequency and timing of how you plan for these capital projects is wildly different. So you can't necessarily just say, parking garage X number of dollars per square foot, put that in a reserve study, we're good. It it there's a more that goes into that type of analysis that can be prudent planning for boards and associations to follow.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

Well, you know, we were joking around about snowplow guys, Tanner. So I have I have a question. So when you do the reserve study, do you plan for things like the snowplow guy when it comes flying in there at 80 miles an hour and tearing up? I meant do you guys plan for damage? I'm serious, or do you just strictly do reserve studies around maintenance issues, or do you actually foresee some damage down the road?

SPEAKER_02 41:56

A normal deterioration and wear and tear is what we're planning for. We can't necessarily plan for weather events or someone backing into a column, items like that. We're not necessarily building that in, but what we're analyzing and looking at is garages that are from the 80s, 90s, 2000s. How much money are they spending? How often? And that's going to tell the story on how we can plan forward for other associations that are up and down the block of here's how much money is reasonable to be putting aside. Uh, but to predict the unpredictable is not really the purpose of the reserve study in terms of your liable. Um, for here's a question I get often as we put in EV chargers, should we be planning for a fire potentially for an EV charging station in our parking garage? Should we plan for that? And my answer to that is is no, that's going to be on your insurance side, not on your reserve study depreciation side for you to plan for a fire to fix that in the future. That that that's not really the purpose of a reserve study.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

You know, Scott, I don't want to get sidetracked, but maybe I'm wrong, but I've done enough of these. These EV fires in parking garages, I think they're they're pretty terrifying because it could call cause a failure in the structure. I mean, am I right? And and if so, could you just explain that a little bit how that could happen? Because I don't think people realize that.

SPEAKER_03 43:17

Yeah, well, I think the intense heat uh can definitely cause problems to uh your concrete and and and and your embedded rebar and stuff like that. I mean, I've been involved in some projects that weren't necessarily EV fires, but where a car for whatever the reason is caught fire inside of parking garages and and they tend to be pretty costly to repair. Um, there's usually you know serious structural issues that that come from uh a fire that um uh it it it's not cheap. And and and the whole thing is even if even if it's covered by an insurance claim, it's still very disruptive to the entire parking garage. You lose areas of parking, you got to put up temporary shoring. And uh so it's so it's both the the the cost and and loss of parking. And disruption to everybody.

SPEAKER_00 44:02

You know, Tanner, I know high-rises that are throwing electric bikes, telling people to get to get lost with their electric bikes now until they have uh the ability to work with the insurance company and set up fire prevention systems. Have you also heard that?

SPEAKER_02 44:15

Um, not the electric bikes, but I do know about the the challenges with uh insurance and adding EV stations of having that potential liability of fires. So fully aware of it. But but again, like the reserve study is to replace your assets and your insurance is to plan for those unplanned events. So it's two different, and if you're budgeting for both insurance and putting reserves away for the unplanned, you're almost double budgeting for those types of events.

SPEAKER_03 44:42

You know, I wouldn't want to I don't want to uh jump the gun if there's something you're gonna uh bring up later, but something I wanted to just comment on related to reserve studies and all that. And you you know, I'm curious if if you've experienced this at your own uh project that's going on, but it's it's the lack of reserve study, and in fact, the lack of reserves that causes some of the biggest problems throughout the uh uh uh you know the properties because the people don't have the money set aside for the projects and they have to go out and get loans and it delays everything and and probably causes some of the most uh um you know infighting in internally related to people having to sign on to these loans for millions of dollars.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

Uh that's why I said I think you're crazy if you don't have a reserve study. Yes, our building was built in the 80s and no one did reserves, and um it caused a lot of problems, and we did not have the money. And luckily, the last few boards have taken it very seriously, and they've done a very good job, in my opinion, in getting together with quality companies like both you guys, and getting the right reserves in place and getting the right contractor. So, my building is basically having a turnaround time, but I will tell you, you're talking tens of millions of dollars here. We are doing facade work and garage work, and we have 40-year-old pipes that are getting pitted. So uh, Tanner, you you basically I've told you enough already that you could figure out the dollar signs, I assume.

SPEAKER_02 46:07

Yeah. And I mean, the if I had a nickel for every time I heard uh board members say, Well, I'm not gonna be here when that project happens, I would not be doing this job. And it's a common misconception of I just bought this brand new condominium. Look how bright and shiny everything is. In my point of view, everything deteriorates, everything needs replacement, and eventually nothing lasts forever. So if you have a board from day one that sets off reserves and starts planning and preparing and reserving, the building's gonna have a long future of good health and not need that course correction. If you have a building that has decades of waiting for the project to happen and then looking to see if there's enough funds, almost a reactive stance, it's gonna cause a lot of pain and heartache to the building. Uh you're talking about loans, special assessments, or major reserve increases to catch up of years and years of funding. If you start from day one, a lot of condos can be$100 to$200 per month to fund for the future. If you do that after two or two or three decades, that could be five, six, seven hundred dollars per unit per month to actually fully fund your reserves. And that's that course correction that a lot of older buildings are having to make by waking up, either waking up and realizing and seeing in front of them, or having state legislation tell them you're not allowed to do this any longer, what's happening in Florida, and mandating that you fully funded your reserves.

SPEAKER_00 47:34

Plus, I'm not an attorney, but boards have also been can get sued for these things nowadays if it's fragrantly not, you know, taking their fiscal responsibility for some kind of other reasons.

SPEAKER_03 47:46

Yeah, Scott, you know another thing that that that that I see just to piggyback on that that that you know related to reserves is um having the money set aside makes the projects go a little move forward a little easier because what happens is some people looking and say, okay, well, uh, we need to replace the the roof of the building. Well, the person who's in the penthouse unit, it's pretty important to them because they're getting leaks on their ceiling and it's causing problems in their unit. The person on the first floor is saying, Hey, that's I don't really care. I don't want to sign on to this uh multimillion dollar loan to replace our roof because I'm on the first floor, I don't have any problems. And you actually get some some fighting related to that and things that create lawsuits amongst uh different unit owners uh trying to sue to get projects to move forward because of the impact of on one unit versus another.

SPEAKER_00 48:37

Scott, do you live at my building? Because what you what you described is so unbelievably dead nuts on it's scary. You do know a lot of stuff outside concrete stuff. You've seen it all.

SPEAKER_03 48:50

No, because it because everybody thinks that their building is unique, and there every building has you know unique problems that are unique to that building, but it it it's all the same stuff. There's also the the the one person or the couple people who are the big problem people in the building. Everybody thinks nobody has somebody like that, like I have at my building. Yes, they do. Every building has that person, and and for for anybody who's either watching playback in now or in the future, like believe me, you know who the person is, and there's somebody that's coming to your mind right now.

SPEAKER_00 49:25

Tanner, Scott just came up with a great aspect to selling reserve studies. It's true because another benefit of reserve studies, too, is you're gonna have this money and you're not gonna have to get involved in the political infighting because that's exactly what happens here. People on the first or second floor, they don't care that people are being flooded out the above floors. And you're right, there was this big debate and arguments for the board to try to get these loans out, and people just quite don't care sometimes about their owners. But you know, Tanner, Scott's right. If you just have the money already there, nobody's gonna pay attention, it's already budgeted.

SPEAKER_02 50:00

It's it's paying your fair share. And if you've lived in a single family home your entire life and you move to a condominium, that mind shift is difficult for a lot of owners of you know, you can live in a single family home and you have the you can tank the value of that. You can not fund or do projects or replacements, but when you move into a condominium, the group collectively decides we're not going to tank the value and let this property deteriorate. So that's the decision. And as you mentioned, the first or second owners might not care. Um, but you have to pay for your fair share of the depreciation of the building because if the roof leaks or the facade has issues, that's everyone's problem and not just the people that are affected.

SPEAKER_00 50:39

Yeah, they don't understand that, Tanner, but that's fine. Okay. We all know it makes sense, but sometimes we're not, you know, when it comes to people's money, we're not dealing with rational thought here. Um, I am gonna ask Scott, I'm gonna ask Tanner, I think, an unfair question, but I'm gonna ask it to you first. I'm gonna ask Tanner, it must be hard to figure out reserves though, for like a facade or a parking garage because here I'm in Atlantic City looking at all the high-rises on the ocean, they're all around the same age, but they're all in various states of disrepair. So, do you think this is gonna be a fair question for Tanner? How could you possibly how do you come up with enough dollar value for a reserve study on a facade that may do great for 25 years or may just do horrible? Like, how could you really tell?

SPEAKER_02 51:33

I mean, that's a great question.

SPEAKER_00 51:35

I was gonna wait, I was gonna go to Scott first and see if yeah, I wanted to give Scott a chance to see if it's a legitimate question.

SPEAKER_03 51:41

I'm curious of the answer myself because I have no idea because you're not only uh uh trying to figure out what the what the price is, but you have to try and project out because let's say the roof has a 30-year lifespan. I mean, who knows what things are gonna cost 30 years from now. So that I'm I'm curious to hear that answer myself.

SPEAKER_00 51:59

But Scott, if you have an asphalt roof, like in a townhouse community, I bet you can guess pretty much to the dime based on that area of the country you're in, how long that roof's gonna last. If you have um like uh siding or something like that, you can guess. Decks, you can guess. But the parking garages and the facades to me, Scott, just looking at what I see here with all the different high rises, some of them look like they're in great shape after 25, 30 years. Some of them just look like they're horrible. So I'm wondering how Tanner can put that together in a reserve study and not quote, uh, give a number too high or too low.

SPEAKER_03 52:35

Well, listen, when you have when you have uh PE after your name, people just automatically respect it and assume you know what you're talking about, even if it's a really great guess.

SPEAKER_00 52:44

All right. How do you do it, Tanner? Can you do it or you can't?

SPEAKER_02 52:48

You can. I really great guess is a good way to put that. Um, but with with enough analysis and comparables, you can look at history and other buildings and decide, Scott or Ray, what you're defining is is scope variability. You could come in and do three percent of cracks, or you could come in and do eight percent of cracks. You could traffic coat the entire garage, you could replace a half a percent of the concrete or five percent. So, how do you decide how much? That's what our engineers are trained to do is be able to recognize based on the age and condition, put together a reasonable scope. Um, if you actually scope out a garage project, that's gonna cost quite a bit and have someone do it, call out every single location and put together a detailed scope. But what we're trying to put together is a general scope estimate that's a reasonable budget amount for you to have the right amount. So let's say a project is 800,000. Um, what we're trying to do is put together a reasonable scope. If you have if you have budgeted 600,000 to a million, we're putting you in the right spot where you are, if you're shortly under or over, you have a reasonable way to be able to fund that project. But if we're way off by the mark by two or three X and the scope is much higher, that's something where we have to look at additional funding mechanisms. Um, but I I would say from history and other uh projects really gives you foundation to understand what's a reasonable number per square foot for this type of garage in this type of condition, in this location. You see, you see how I keep adding variables in. It kind of spits out a plan in place that it's not gonna be the perfect plan in place. And what I call reserve studies a roadmap is you realign that roadmap every three to five years to understand are we close on track with how this is tracking or do we need to shift? So I have zero confidence or very little confidence in the projects that are 30 years out, but the next five years, I have a whole lot more confidence in what I'm recommending for a lot of associations. But once Scott comes out there and he estimates the project and gets you an actual bid, puts that together, you put that right into the reserve study, and then you have a plan in place that's based on realistic expectations.

SPEAKER_00 54:58

But I felt what you were saying, you do have a pretty good guess on 30 years out, though, at some point, because you're doing this in-depth analysis. I was actually really impressed by by your answer, right? You're not just you're looking at all the environmental factors in surrounding buildings. It's I think it's pretty impressive. You're looking at so many factors, Tanner, that you're gonna come up with the best guess you can. It's just it's not a wide open guess.

SPEAKER_02 55:22

It isn't. No, there are a lot of analysis that goes into that. But why I said that about 30 years is what happens over the next three decades? How do you actually maintain and execute projects? And that's what we have to react to over time. Because if you go 30 years and don't touch your garage, I guarantee that number is kind of double, triple, quadruple. Um, a cadence of repairs is a big capital repairs is a big thing with parking garages. The the difference between spending 20,000 every three years, it's not the same as 100,000 every 15 years. And I try to explain that to clients. If you're setting letting something sit for 15 years, or if you're addressing it every three or four, wildly different trajectories on if you're fixing things soon or if you're letting them get worse. So, I mean, that's the factors that really we have to react to because a lot of associations are on top of it. They do concrete work every two, three, four, five years. We can't really find much at those properties, even as they get older. But we sometimes come out to properties. I ask the question, when's the last time you had your garage inspected or repaired? And they don't have anything on record for 20 years. Uh I ex I know what I'm I'm I'm expecting to see when I go out to the property is going to be more exasperated and more significant issues. So, timing and how frequent you do these is a big factor on how much these projects can cost.

SPEAKER_00 56:41

Do you ever tie a reserve study into a maintenance plan? Because it seems like they would go hand in hand.

SPEAKER_02 56:47

100%. So if you have a maintenance plan or records that we can understand what you're doing, we can tie the reserve study into that. Um, and for example, here in Minneapolis, the city requires a city inspection of elevated garages every year. So if we get a copy of that inspection report and that plan, we tie that plan directly into the reserve study so it aligns with what you're being told by uh by other third parties.

SPEAKER_00 57:13

Scott, it seems like a no-brainer, right? You have a reserve study done, but you also incorporate your maintenance plan out for the next 20 years if you can do it that far out. And you're going to be in a much better position to be accurate with that reserve study compared to if you just basically just winged the maintenance for the future. Um, oh, and another thing, this would hold future boards theoretically, also to this maintenance plan. Scott, what do you think?

SPEAKER_03 57:39

Well, I mean, I think you're absolutely right, but there's a difference between having a plan and executing on the plan. And I think that's where most people miss is so there's a plan that gets put in place, and it's like, okay, great, let's put that up on the shelf. And they never actually execute on it. You actually have to perform the maintenance work and and you know be proactive in taking care of that stuff in order to keep your long-term expenses down, right? So so it's it requires you know, actively, you know, following the plan.

SPEAKER_00 58:08

All right, excellent. Okay, we got two minutes left. Let's do closing thoughts. Tanner, what did we not touch upon? I know I'm not leaving you a lot of time, but closing thoughts.

SPEAKER_02 58:20

Um, from a reserve capital planning stance, I would just echo for these types of repairs. Um, I we didn't really talk about it much, but garages have this inflection point. And I did want to just mention is is garages don't deteriorate the same amount every single year. Garages have this inflection point between 15 and 25 years where the level of deterioration can really go up. So that that I always call the critical period, the critical point between 15, 25, 30 years of a garage, if you can maintain that well, you can have that graph. Sorry, as an engineer, I have to use graphs and charts, but you can have that graph instead of going straight up of deterioration, cost, and repairs, you can maintain it and have that graph not um steepen in terms of cost and repairs amount in the future. So there's this critical point where you want to catch the concrete. Because if you wait too late and you're already on that curve where it gets steep, that's where Scott comes in and he gets to write uh a bigger scope of repairs and that that cost goes way up. And you can't necessarily pause it. So you're almost trying to pause the level of deterioration and not let it get past a point where it's gone too far and we can't catch up.

SPEAKER_00 59:32

So using how you were mentioning Scott goes to the gym, if Scott continues to go to the gym in the future, his decay will be much lessened. But if he lets himself go to 300 pounds, and then it's just gonna very quickly fall apart.

SPEAKER_02 59:46

There you go. Great analogy there.

SPEAKER_00 59:49

Thank you, Scott.

SPEAKER_03 59:52

Yeah, so um, you know, for me, I think uh the couple key takeaways is number one, uh, you want to perform regular maintenance and you want to tackle problems early before they grow into big monsters that uh cause major disruption in your building and and mega dollars to fix. And uh the second key behind everything is also realizing that uh not every contractor is qualified to do this work and not every contractor is created equal, even inside of what might be presented to you by an engineering firm. Uh sometimes when an engineering firm brings you a list of, let's say, four to six contractors who are going to bid on the project, um, boards take that as here's a commodity, which one do you prefer? And even inside of the bidders, basically all an engineering firm is saying, here's a contractor with experience, resources, and uh, you know, are capable of executing this project, but not necessarily at the same level uh that as the other ones. So you even inside of those bidders who are looking at your project, you want to dig a little bit deeper beyond just the price to understand how they are the right person for you, for your project, for your association.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:14

I think you want to dig really deep if you're talking about a multi-billion dollar garage or for side project. Do you agree, Scott?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:20

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, money certainly matters to everybody, everybody wants to pay the lowest price, but the lowest price isn't always the what you see up front uh in that initial bid.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:32

Okay. Well, um, Tanner and I have a lot of work to do. Scott, I'm I'm sure you're probably gonna go to the gym or or hang out with the other owners, I'm sure. Or you always all have those speed boats, I'm sure, too. You're probably getting your big long speed boat into the water because I noticed you probably have something that says concrete at the back. Yeah, cobra concrete or something. Is what's the name of your boat?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:54

Uh it's uh your building paid for this.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:56

Okay, all right. All right, well, I thank you guys for being here, and thanks everybody for being here. Much appreciated. Bye, everybody. Take care.