Impact-Resistant Shingles: Are They Worth the Extra Cost?

Impact-Resistant Shingles: Are They Worth the Extra Cost?

Are impact-resistant shingles actually worth the additional cost—or are you paying more for benefits you may never use?

In this program, a roofing professional and an experienced reserve-study engineer examine impact-resistant shingles, stronger roof systems, storm protection, warranties, installation requirements, and the potential price difference between standard and upgraded roofing materials.

The panel discusses what makes a complete roof system, including shingles, underlayment, flashing, decking, ventilation, and installation quality. They also explain why the warranty printed on a roofing product may not represent its actual useful life—and why two roofing proposals that appear similar can provide very different levels of protection and long-term value.

You will also learn:

• How impact-resistant shingles are designed to withstand hail and severe weather

• Whether the additional cost may be justified

• Why location and storm exposure matter

• Whether improved roofing materials may affect insurance pricing

• Why shingle thickness does not tell the entire story

• What must be clearly identified in a roofing proposal

• Why an independent engineer can help create an apples-to-apples bidding process

The second portion of the program includes additional questions about roof materials, potentially unsafe decks, deck repair versus replacement, railings, hidden window leaks, installation errors, and other exterior-building problems that property owners and community leaders should not ignore.

Do not assume the most expensive shingle—or the longest advertised warranty—automatically provides the best roofing decision. Watch the full discussion before evaluating your next roofing project.

If you require continuing education credit(s) you must login via our go to webinar system which can be found at: [www.AssociationHelpNow.com](http://www.AssociationHelpNow.com).

Panelists

Todd Vignola • Add Ventures, Inc. • tvignola@addventuresinc.com • www.addventuresinc.com

Todd Walter, PE, PRA, RS • Reserve Advisors, Inc. • todd@reserveadvisors.com • www.reserveadvisors.com

Raymond Dickey • AssociationHelpNow • www.AssociationHelpNow.com

Chapters

0:00 Introduction and Continuing Education Instructions

1:06 Meet the Panelists

2:05 What Are Impact-Resistant Shingles?

4:34 What Makes a Complete Roof System?

6:50 How Impact-Resistant Shingles Work

9:17 Warranties and Expected Roof Life

11:22 How Much More Do Impact-Resistant Shingles Cost?

12:55 Are They Worth It for Homes and Communities?

17:24 Insurance Discounts and Storm Protection

19:31 Reserve Planning and Long-Term Costs

23:05 Do Other Roof Components Cost More?

25:24 Does Shingle Thickness Matter?

27:04 How to Specify the Correct Shingle

31:02 Final Thoughts on Impact-Resistant Shingles

32:30 Roofs, Railings and Exterior Problems

33:02 Roofers and Engineers Working Together

36:24 Are Manufacturers Using Less Asphalt?

39:13 Can a Deck Look Safe and Still Fail?

42:14 Repairing Versus Replacing a Wooden Deck

43:39 Wood Versus Composite Decking

46:44 Can Impact-Resistant Shingles Affect Insurance?

48:17 Can a Window Leak Without Dripping Inside?

50:12 Installation Errors, Maintenance and Product Failure

This program is provided for educational and informational purposes only. It does not constitute professional advice.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

We're going to talk today. We got two topics we're going to talk about. One is going to be impact resistant uh shingles, stronger roof systems, which I think is super interesting. And then I've got a whole bunch of uh roof and railing questions to uh get through. Um they're pretty general, but I think they're pretty darn interesting. So uh before I go any further, I am gonna uh make if you have questions, if you have comments, use your question feature. I love getting questions. Please send them in. That's what makes our programs roll and they are well appreciated. If you are here for CEUs, and once again, I love those questions and I love those comments. Sorry, I got a little thrown off here because um I was just uh trying to get settled here when we first got started. Okay, I think I'm all caught up where I want to be. With that being said, I'm gonna have our panel introduce themselves with who I see first, and that is uh, oh, I'm gonna do uh Todd W.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

First and foremost, thank you for the opportunity, Ray. Uh, thank you for joining us here today. Very much looking forward to the discussion. Uh, my quick background, I'm a licensed professional engineer in several states. I started conducting reserve studies with reserve advisors in 1999, and to this day I still very much enjoy visiting a property like yours each week.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

All right, excellent. And Todd, Todd V. Avignola from Adventures Construction Services. Happy to be here, Ray. Thank you for the opportunity. Um, hope we can answer some questions for everybody today.

SPEAKER_02 1:31

Todd, you fixed your webcam. You are like such a technical wizard now. Remember when we first started? You had to have your assistants do everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

I got it all right now.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

You're able to switch that over right away. All right, so we're gonna be talking about these um impact resistant shingles, stronger roof systems. This is um something that somebody sent me. I did my research on the internet, and this is what I came up with. And um, you know, both Todd's came back with a little bit of commentary on it before we get started. You know, Todd, I'll start with you. Brief description. Is there something really called an impact resistant shingle? Todd W.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Yeah, yeah, great, great question. Great question. So one uh a goal of the roofing industry has been more durable roof systems. That includes these impact resistant shingles. These impact resistant shingles upgraded with like a rubberized polymer or reinforced with fiberglass. The goal um impact resistant to hail. So you primarily see these types of systems in the hail corridors where we see the most severe weather. So those areas where we're seeing that severe weather, likely about half of the roofing systems are are these impact resistant shingles at the moment and growing.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

Don't don't get ahead of me, Todd.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Oh okay, cool.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

Um, you know, Todd, you ran into the same kind of um, you gave me back the same commentary. When I threw this term at you, impact resistant shingle, you had the same um the same approach or the or or the same reaction as uh as Todd the engineer did, correct?

SPEAKER_00 3:04

I did, I did. I and actually did a little more research on them. Uh, they are very common for areas that are exposed to hail and really heavy windstorms. There is a different type of shingle. Uh we learned that how it was tested. It's actually tested with a giant uh lead ball that's dropped from 20 feet to land on the shingle to see if it actually breaks the shingle or cracks the shingle. And it it's considered a class four impact rating. So I don't know exactly what that means, but it is definitely a better or, or should I say, a stronger quality shingle than what we generally use here in the East Coast.

unknown 3:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Northeast.

SPEAKER_02 3:43

Did either don't give me the answer yet, but did either of you guys have a chance to dive into the pricing on it at all a little bit? Are we gonna be able to talk about that today? Because I know you had to do some a little bit of research on that because I didn't give you the right terminology in the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Should have some information for you shortly in regards to pricing.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

Yes. Todd is so Todd has such a great group, uh uh such a great team that I know exactly what he's up to right now. He's gonna get his team on that. They're gonna research it and get it right back to Todd, and Todd will incorporate that with his own knowledge. Emma, was that a good guess? What you were gonna do, Todd? Exactly what I just did. Yeah, excellent, excellent. All right, so let's just we're we're not gonna spend a lot of time actually talking about roof systems, but I think it's important that we get started somewhere. So, roof replacements are not just about choosing a shingle, color brand, or warranty. Um, what are they about, Todd? What is a roof system? And leave a little room for Todd to fill in there also.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

Well, Todd. First and foremost, for oh, for me, my opinion is well, what does it look like, right? This is your home, and you want to make sure that it's something that you agree agree with, you know, and if it's the wrong color or the wrong shape or the wrong architectural layout for you. So, first and foremost, is it something that you like and you want on your house? I would treat it no different than buying a new car. You want a blue car, buy a blue car. Don't buy a red car if you want a blue car, you know. So important to me is the way it looks.

SPEAKER_02 5:04

And you know, Todd, we're not gonna, Todd W, we're not gonna dive deep into this today, too. But you have people have to look at things like the warranty, etc. Correct?

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Yeah, absolutely. Not just the the warranty, but uh I don't doesn't matter what type of shingles you have, they're the best out in the world, but the flashings aren't right, the ventilation isn't right, uh, underlayment isn't right, uh, ice and water shield, all kinds of components have to work properly in conjunction with those shingles for a wharf system to work properly.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

So the roof system really matters, is basically it's not just the shingles. So uh, but we're gonna talk about the shingles today. Um, what makes a complete roof system? I think you guys already touched upon that. Um, under let me see, underlayment, flashing, roof decking, and ventilation and installation. I read that, Todd. I haven't done enough of these that I would have that memorized. Todd V, was I close enough on that?

SPEAKER_00 5:53

You're pretty good. Pretty good on those. The ventilation being a key, key component.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

Interesting. Todd W, why do you think Todd V jumped on the ventilation? I guess that's an overlooked item.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely extremely overlooked item. In fact, you see, roofers oftentimes uh do replace the shingles, not even look what's in the attic. Is that are the penetrations going is uh bathroom exhaust going through the roof, getting all that moisture out of the unit? Uh is sufficient insulation to minimize the heat loss from the unit in the attic. That stuff has such a huge impact on the shingle useful life and the durability and how long those shingles last. And it's quite often overlooked.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

All right, let's dive into the meat of the problem here, um, or the meat of the topic. Todd V, what are impact resistant shingles intended to do? And don't you can leave a little room for Todd W also. We can jump back and forth, but what are we talking about here? What is the difference?

SPEAKER_00 6:52

I think the the number one difference is to compare would be in storms that are related to hail and heavier winds. That's where I believe that an impact resistant shingle will prove its worthiness. Uh, in areas that get a lot of hail storms and heavy winds and those micro cells, those micro weather cells, um, you'll find that this impact resistant shingle will hold up better in a hail storm and a heavier windstorm. Uh, Todd had mentioned earlier about the components that are built into the product itself. Maybe he can elaborate. I know you said elasticities and and other stuff, Todd. So if you want to add to how it makes it stronger, that would be great.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

Uh, Todd, W, why don't you go? You why don't you go into the different parts of a shingle, the components of it? I know you did the research on that.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Yeah, the these high-impact resistant shingles often uh upgraded with like a rubberized polymer, uh, improves that durability. Um, that the the theory here is not just the storm damage, but the theory is also uh minimizes the potential for water infiltration, minimize the potential for leaks, maximizes that durability. Um, still have a lot of the same components though, don't forget here. Granules, those surface granules are extremely important, whether you no matter what type of shingle you have. So a lot of the same components, it's just that these shingles are reinforced for increased durability.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

You know, Todd W, I'm I'm realizing now when I brought this topic to to both you, both Todd's. Uh Todd W, this is a would this be considered somewhat of a unique item, um, not used commonly, but would be proper use in certain circumstances, like we're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Yeah, it increased use of increased use. We're seeing an increased use, but again, especially those hail corridors, depending on what part of the country you're in. Um, one thing that we're very much interested in is because it's somewhat new, how long does it actually last? Like you hear the uh a lot of big claims about how long these shingles are actually gonna last, and we love the opportunity to monitor the rate of deterioration, monitor the rate of issues to get a feel for how long are they gonna actually last?

SPEAKER_02 9:00

Todd V, is that like I said, I I threw this, everybody watching, I threw this at both Todd's at the last minute. So um, and like I said, this is a unique item um and they have a huge knowledge base. Todd V, can you talk a little bit about that? Have you seen any of the warranty programs on this yet, or did you not have a chance to take a look at that? I know I'm throwing you for no.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

So I'm glad you asked because it's funny. When I was growing up and started doing the shingle business over 25 years ago, people would tell you, well, I have a 25-year roof. My roof's guaranteed to last 25 years, and those roofs may have been installed within the decade that I had met those people. Now I'm coming to see 25 and 30-year-old roofs fail. So the proven time frame that they said that they would last actually made that time frame of 25 to 30 years. More recently, within a decade ago or so, we've come up with this new lifetime warranty, 50-year shingle. So I would love to tell you that it's lasted 50 years, but I'm only 53 years old. So the reality is, is I have yet to experience whether or not that product will last that long. Uh, do I have faith in it? I do. I think that the quality of the shingles that are made now as opposed to the 25-year warranty shingles are are light years above in technology and durability. So I do believe that you will get your 50 years out of a shingle.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

And I'm not going to hold you to it, Todd, uh, because it's a little bit unfair. But do you think the warranty program on an impact resistant shingle will be similar in regard to regular?

SPEAKER_00 10:32

Yes, actually, the they use it it still can fall under what we would call, and I'm I'm only being brand specific because it's a brand I'm familiar with. GAF has this lifetime warranty. So if you use their shingle, which is considered the um, give me a second, the impact resistance shingle is called Armor Shield, GAF Timberline Armor Shield 2. If you use that in in coordination with all of the other products required to meet a lifetime warranty, it will give you the 50-year lifetime warranty for that product. Now, the cost for the shingle itself is actually up to anywhere from 15 to 25% higher for the shingle. Not the entire project, but the shingle itself compared to what we use, which is a UHDZ shingle from GAF, which is a quality shingle which will get you the 50 years. So you'll pay a little bit more for the shingle itself, but you still get the same warranty. Um, and I believe that you get higher protection because it's obviously impact rated.

SPEAKER_02 11:36

So, Todd V, for those of us besides you both that can't compute in our head very quickly what the shingle cost would be, how does this relate to a standard size house? Or you you give it back to me in a way that I could understand what the price difference would be.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

So, for example, if you were gonna use, if you were gonna do a shingle, you're talking about maybe a twelve hundred dollar upgrade on a 40 square roof house. So 40 square is a common size, that's a larger size roof for a single family dwelling. So if you were gonna increase to the the the timber line armor shield too, you'd have approximately a thousand to twelve hundred dollar increase in the cost of the project. The project should cost anywhere from uh about twenty-six thousand. So you're in the twenty-five to twenty-seven thousand dollar range from a regular shingle to the increase in the Armor Shield shingle.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

So, Todd W. This is an absolutely loaded question that you may not be able to answer. Do you think a lot of associations in your experience would look at this as being advantageous for these high-risk areas?

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Absolutely, absolutely. You know, I'm a little more pessimistic as opposed to Todd here. We just came off this period of roofing companies having these fantastic market campaigns of crazy useful life shingles that really aren't come to fruition living that long, making it that long. So I'm I'd be glad fantastic to have these impact resistant shingles last 50, 40 years. But I'm a little more pessimistic. I'm not so sure we're heading that direction just yet, as making it that long, but I guess we'll see. We'll have to see how this all plays out. But that's not a whole lot of increase in cost, right? It's not a whole lot of increase in cost for a more durable shingle. Boy, that's something I would probably jump on if I was a board member.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

I was thinking the same thing, Todd V. And I, you know, I'm not a board member. So what is your gut reaction? Do you think this is something that boards should go ahead?

SPEAKER_00 13:41

So, for example, I just only gave you the size of a single family dwelling. But when you go to an entire complex, you go from 40 square to 2,000 square. So you have 50 times the ratio. So it's a $50,000 increase in the cost of the shingle in an overall project that is an entire community, not just a single dwelling home. So your house, if you live in a house, it's 40 square, talk about $1,000 to $1,200 more for your shingle. But now we have to do 50 of those houses in a community. Now we've just brought the price up to more like $60,000. That's a number that is hard for a community to digest. Now, here's the other thing that I think would deter them from going with that shingle. Either way, if you go with the GAF product, you're getting a lifetime warranty. So why would you spend the 50 or 60 grand more for the Armor Shield if you're going to get the same warranty with the regular HDZ shingle? That's the question that I think would make the client, the you know, board members, the community itself question whether or not they were gonna add that extra money in.

SPEAKER_02 14:52

Todd V, if you think this is a legal question, by all means pass on it. Um, are you telling me that the average shingle warranty right now, if there's a hail storm or uh, you know, or one of these high impact zones, damages the shingles and causes a tremendous amount of leaks? You're gonna tell me that will be uh covered under most cases? Because then what would be the advantages of these impact resistant shingles? And why would anybody be buying on that?

SPEAKER_00 15:18

So um, yes, according to the GAF warranty, and I don't have it specific legally terms, but yes, you should be covered up to a certain amount of wind mile per hour. Um, if it exceeds, and I don't know those numbers, let's say it's 125 miles an hour, for an example, and it's 160 mile an hour storm, I would assume that GAF may have the right to retreat on that warranty. Again, I'm not a GAF rep, can't answer those questions exactly. Um, but then you say, well, what would be the reason to go with the hail? So along with hail doesn't necessarily mean 135 mile an hour winds. And if you know you're in an area that's gonna be subject to hail regularly and you want to use that shingle, it would help to alleviate any further invasions to the community. Meaning, if you have a hail storm every five years, every five years you're gonna be working on your roofs. But if you decided to go with this prod prod product, sorry, and it defeats the hail, it beats the hail storm, then you have no invasive construction taking place after that hail storm took place. Your roofs hold up, they don't leak, the shingles didn't break, everyone's happy, and you move on. So I think it's very uh uh answer, a question that would be answered based on location and the experience of the community and what type of storms they've had in the past.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

Todd W, I was I was right on board with you in the it when your commentary about it. I think it would be worth it in certain areas. Just based exactly what Todd Vija said. I meant you're bored, you don't want to deal with all these leaks, right? It's not just the fact that the shingles are ruined, but look at all the other damage and the insurance claims and all the paperwork you're gonna be chasing, right? For for months after a major storm. Well, if you just purchase these shingles in the beginning, you're gonna have a lot happier residents.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. All great points by Todd. Uh, just a quick note here, two two quick notes here. Um, I believe it these shingles are also marketed as an improved resistance to water infiltration, improved resistance to leaks. So a little side benefit. And uh, Todd I'd also be interested to hear if you're hearing anything about insurance discounts. So you utilize this type of shingle, results in a discount in your insurance. Maybe that makes up some of that money. At least that's what it's marketed as as uh some a way to reduce your insurance, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:36

So I'm not quite sure about the insurance. I actually did read about that, that you should check with your insurance carrier to see if there is discounts. Um, it would make sense, right? You're paying more for a shingle that's supposed to protect you to a higher advantage. So maybe they would lower your insurance costs. And we all know how expensive it is for insurance right now. So there could be a takeaway from the additional 40 or 50 or 60 grand that you put into the roof. Maybe that carries out over the next 10 years an insurance decrease costs.

SPEAKER_02 18:07

Let's do this. I'm gonna send a text message to Don Becker Durham and Kristen Serenini and see if they can get back to us during the live stream. Hi guys, I am in the middle of a live stream with some roofers and an engineer, and we are wondering if there is a discount in regard to insurance for impact resistant shingles. If you could text me back, I would love to let people know on the live stream. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

Very nice, very nice.

SPEAKER_02 18:31

I don't know if they'll get back to me.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Go ahead, Todd. A W. Yeah, great. That's a great question. I'm very interested to hear what they come back with. I have also heard certain parts of the country insurance companies are uh not quite uh they're a little more strict on when they fund a total replacement of a roof system. So maybe you have these impact resistant shingles a little more durable. If they're not as quick to replace your roof, do the hail damage. Maybe this helps here.

unknown 18:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 19:00

It does. And I've actually heard the insurance. What a surprise. The insurance companies are getting tougher and tougher with paying things out. So um, yeah, I kind of I didn't want to put the insurance stuff in here too much because I was I knew it would be a tricky thing and it changes all the time, which makes me nervous too. Um, I don't want to spend too much time on this. Um engineering, long-term reserves. We lost, hopefully, Todd will be back. But uh Todd W, this will obviously be accounted in for reserves. Is this is this an item you may see in a reserve, this extra cost for these extra shingles?

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Yeah, so for my Todd Todd V's comment about the increase in cost matches what what our understanding is. Um, you know, that roughly 3% to 14% that range and an increase in cost. Um, so we are again, we are seeing an increased use in these shingles. So when we see these higher quality impact resistant shingles, um, we can way down the road for replacement, but we are building in those higher costs. Um, there are associations who have a near-term roof replacement project and they tell us they're going to use a higher quality, more durable impact resistant shingle. And of course, then at that point, we're also then building in those additional costs. But you know, again, I just want to just remind everybody cost of the shingle is uh a big part of the overall costs, but there's a ton of other costs associated with a replacement of a roof system that really make up the majority of the project.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

All right, I'm trying to get Todd back here. Um he I don't know what. Um let me back in. Yeah, he's registered as a as a panelist, so I have to try to get him back up here. Okay. All right, Todd. You just happen to be on the wrong link by the by the way, Todd, too. That's what's going on here. You keep yeah, you keep jumping in as an attendee, but you're back. So every time you jump out, if you have a problem with the connection, Todd, you gotta text me so I can get you back in. Okay, but that was it. Yeah, I don't think you missed too much there, Todd. So we were just talking about the reserve aspect and whether or not that would be that would be part of it. Keep keep in mind. Todd V, do we have go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Yeah, one last note. We can't give those useful lives that they are being claimed here just yet. We got to see some of this actually, the rate of deterioration heading towards that direction. Like we're not giving 50-year useful lives, even 40, even 35. Or we have to see that actually happen in real life, at least see the rate pointing in that direction. And we're just quite not there yet.

SPEAKER_02 21:28

Todd W, how come you keep bringing that up? You seem like really concerned about the warranty promise here. I'm just curious. I'm not against it. I'm just I'm curious why you brought it up like three times.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

That's a that's a constant battle here with hey, we bought a 25 year shingle. Why are you not giving me 25 years of useful life? We bought a 35 year shingle. Why are you not giving me 35 years of useful life? That's a weekly battle here at Reserve Advisors with clients. Um, unfortunately, we have to include the useful lives that we're actually seeing. happen in the field. We can't just go by what the roofing companies, their marketing materials state that shingle is going to last.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

But why don't why don't we just tell them it's a for for for Todd V and myself, why don't we just tell people it's a thousand year warranty? We're not going to be around anyway. So maybe Todd V will be around. He goes hunting and he runs around and he keeps in good shape and everything. Maybe he'll make it another 50 years in the business, but I'm not going to be around what's it, you know, it's like when you go to the car and it's like what's those deals Todd V that you know we'll give you one million dollars if we won't buy some stupid you know what I mean? You know what I'm getting at, right, Todd V? I understand. I understand.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

I uh I don't want to be around for 50 years in the industry just to get that out there real quick. I don't need that. Take a 10 more it'll just be Todd.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

It'll just be Todd W then in 50 years. All right so this is a great question and somebody from the audience actually asked it. Thank you so much but I had it also um the question from the audience is will there be an increase in cost for other roof components for we use these impact shingles. I had the same question Todd V. I was thinking if there's a weight issue and actually I forgot to ask a question Todd V are these are these shingles thicker? That's my first question. And then that's this is the second part.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

Another I'm gonna have to research that last question for you about the thickness. And then when it comes to the other products that are support in support of the roof meaning the the paper that goes underneath it the collars the uh you know the drip edges all of that stuff so first and foremost and and it's somebody said is there going to be an increase the answer to that is always the word yes okay so I've been doing roofing now for 28 years and religiously every six months it doesn't matter what's going on in the world the shingles and all the components are subject to increases it happens all the time middle of the year end of the year so shingle prices in 28 years that I've been doing it have never dropped they've only increased. They are more than double what it used to cost when I started this this business 28 years ago. So just for your understanding you'll never get a discount on a shingle uh in regards to the products that go underneath it those products from what I interpret are the exact same products that would stay underneath the shingles you'd use the same type of paper tiger paw you would use or or armor deck you would use the vent collars now which uh like for GAF they have their own vent collars and all of the aluminum drip edges that they tell you to use and stuff like that components that are required to meet the uh the warranty for this shingle the armor shield as opposed to the regular shingle the components underneath are e are equal there's no change in those Todd great information thank you so much um you're really honest especially for something I just threw at you the other day I'm gonna I think Todd W is looking that up maybe I'm gonna jump to you in a second Todd W.

SPEAKER_02 25:04

I got one more question for Todd V, just a general question.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

You know I'm curious Todd V, do shingles vary greatness and thickness and does thickness mean anything in the quality of the shingle um so there's a couple of major brands of shingles right let's say you have GAF you have Owens Corning you have TAMCO you can lay all those shingles down next to each other and you will find differences in every one of those shingles uh one shingle is actually measured in metric as opposed to standard length and widthwise the other shingles have different architectural designs on them and the thickness now I don't I don't have a micrometer but I can assure you from the eye you can see a difference in shingles especially when you go from a 50 year shingle to a 25 year shingle Todd my question is does thickness matter if I'm holding a thicker shingle can I assume it's a better shingle than a thin one I would like to say yes I would like to say that yeah I think you get more protection.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Okay Todd W, do you want to jump in Todd W you want to jump on at or yeah very interesting question and I believe that these impact resistance shingles are just a touch thicker like 10 to 15% thicker so not a whole lot but the key here is that it's not really the thickness that it's the flexibility when it's in hit hit in hit with hail these impact resistant shingles have the ability to flex absorb kind of dissipate that energy so that helps with the durability it's not really just hey it's super super thick it's going to be resistant to hail it's that the ability to flex and absorb that energy that's key with these jingles.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Okay awesome all right so one more question and now we're gonna wrap up and go to the go to some more of the uh siding and other roofing questions we have um todvy are you is there anything in particular that boards and managers should be careful about if they go in this direction to make sure that's on their quote um any key words that you feel they should look for how do they know they're really getting let me rephrase Todve how do boards and managers really know they're getting impact um resistant shingles and just not getting a snow job okay so if for example an association chooses to go with an engineering firm to design the scope of work for the roof the engineering firm will designate the exact products that they want the roofer to install for the client so you as the homeowner association the board members you hire ex engineer you want to be in communication with them and you want to say to them we want a GAF 50 year shingle uh what do you suggest for uh Hale Impact and then that engineer will say to you well you have choices you can use this product this product or this product whatever choice you and the engineer make together as a team is what your contractor has to deliver upon installation and awarding of the contract so I cannot bid a job to an engineer who scopes out timberline armor shield shingles and show up there with a Owens Corning shingle. I would be in violation of my contract and that is one of the reasons that associations should and can use uh engineering firms for roofing okay if you choose as an association not to go with uh an engineering firm for whatever reason that may be you really need to be dialed in on what your contractor has in his proposal his or her proposal so it should oh it shouldn't just say uh asphalt shingle because that gives that contractor the right to choose any shingle you want it to be brand specific and for us like I can tell you we only sell a golden pledge roof we won't sell anything less than that it doesn't make sense to us so our pro our proposals will always state golden pledge GAF and the define the the shingle and the color obviously okay and then Todd can you make yourself a little higher in the frame if you can't don't mess with it I don't want to risk losing you there because it will when we do the recorded version your the bottom of your your head is going to get cut off a bit there.

SPEAKER_02 29:20

So sorry about that. Um Todd W, um I think this is something in my opinion that would definitely be worth investing in having an engineer or a qualified professional review that quote because man I would be so nervous I don't know what the legalities are and I don't want to touch upon that of somebody just saying something's an impact resistant shingle when maybe it's not you know what I'm getting at Todd W?

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Yeah absolutely great great great question here a great topic that use of an independent experience engineer to design the specifications to develop the specifications it's the only way to compare have apples to apples bids right if you get three different roofing contractors to bid on it the only way to have Apple's apples comparison is to have the exact same specifications and also we talked earlier about how it's not just a shingles everything else has to work together use of that independent engineer architect they can make sure that every single component that needs to be just right in that roofing system is specified, is addressed is thought about all right and by the way if I'm mispronouncing your name I apologize.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

Willen your roofing questions are awesome today I'm curious are you in the middle of a roofing bid or project or something because you're at you're thinking of a lot of the questions that I'm thinking about and this is why I love having the um audience here. It's just so helpful for me and uh it gives me confidence if I don't have something on here's a good chance if the audience is participating that we're gonna end up covering it. I'm gonna save your question Will I know for the second half of the program because they're general uh shingle roofing questions so we can go ahead and do all right so guys let's go to closing thoughts on this um let's just keep it to the impact resistant shingle port. I maybe we covered everything maybe we didn't Todd closing thoughts on impact resistant shingles I'm walking walking away with the impression that definitely they may be worth checking out depending on your circumstances.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

I agree Ray I think location and the type of environment climate climatically climate wise is important to make a decision on whether or not you want to use one of those shingles I do will and will always recommend that you try to find yourself within the realm of a lifetime warranty for any of the products out there. And I agree with Todd that they haven't been proven yet but you're paying someone that says it will be and and there's a peace of mind at that Todd W, what do you think?

SPEAKER_02 31:34

Are are based on your additional research on this topic are you sold on impact resistant shingles?

SPEAKER_01 31:40

Yeah I love the promise that they're delivering I love the the science behind it the reinforcement behind it not a whole lot more money uh I think I'm probably all in on using it on my house.

SPEAKER_02 31:51

Wow all right so great this this was a topic that I got nervous about because I found I found it online and I always tell the audience by the way I love finding things online and there's a lesson to be learned if I find something that's inaccurate because there's a good chance that the people out in the audience are also finding that inaccurate. But this turned out to be a a really great story and I really uh a topic I really appreciate the person that sent it in. All right so let's jump over to roofs and railings. Now Todd W, um do you have to jump or do you want to stay? It's completely up to you. We're happy to have you but if you got stuff to do I know I didn't I kind of threw this at you the second half. I'd love to stick on if I'm still invited be great you're absolutely still invited absolutely I'm hoping to see a conflict someday that nicely done between both you Todd's because let me ask you this before we get started. Todd V, and I don't mean this in a bad way at all I I'm really from a learning curve is there a common conflict that happens between roofers and engineers um there may not be but I'm just curious.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

No, you know listen there's always this stigma that you know engineers and contractors really don't always see eye to eye. So first and foremost I think that it's important for every contractor to respect the education that an engineer has, right? Because we as contractors even with a four-year degree I still don't have an engineering degree and even that I have practical use in the trades and I've done this stuff over years there's a lot of things that engineers know that we wouldn't and and and you know earlier I jumped in and I said uh ventilation is so important. I didn't know that in my beginning years so and I learned that from the engineers that I've been working with over all of this time. And so uh I would have told you that in the beginning years like someone would have said ventilation and I would have said prove it now I've already seen it prove it and I thank that to the engineers. So I think that it's important when they work together right there's two ways to see it. Like I just said we need to respect what the engineers say and come up with because they're they have a higher education and they have been in detail more. As for the engineers my word of advice to them would be don't forget the practicality. Some things look great on paper but can't physically be done exactly the way that they look so as an engineer it's sometimes good to say hey to the contractor I drew this up how about you show me how it works and then I think that there would be a nice middle road somewhere along the line Todd W, do you see how Todd worked that in at first he kind of like smoothed it all over and he buttered up the engineers and everything but you could see the ditty gritty the only part he doesn't like is engineers designing things that are not practical for roofers to do.

SPEAKER_02 34:46

That's the impression I got. Real quick Todd W, before I ask you if you see any conflicts and I don't want to spend a lot of time on this I think the reason I don't see a lot of it is the level of people that are on my programming right I'm not dealing with the roofing guy with a pickup truck or anything. I'm not dealing you know with small engineering firms I'm dealing with some pretty substantial panelists.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

So I don't think I'm going to see those conflicts but I wonder if the in the general world yeah sure there's probably some conflicts but anyway Todd W, uh same question is there a common conflict that sometimes you see maybe too strong of a word between roofers and engineers as long as both parties look at this as a team you're a partner you're a team you're working together like I don't see any of those conflicts in fact we often see contractors really appreciate the engineer who's documenting the the construction step by step because it it protects that contractor from being accused of doing things that they didn't do. So as long as you're working together as a team shouldn't be any conflicts there.

SPEAKER_02 35:42

Talk it through if the contractor's an issue with your design let's talk it through okay well Todd good job I loved it okay maybe you know you could come on Todd one time we could do in practical plans provided by engineers that would be fun and we can look at them and then let's put some engineers on the spot we know some really you know good ones you know we could have Todd here and we just put them on the spot it would be a lot of fun okay um let me do redo the intro on this just in case I end up splitting it up roofs and railings exterior problems you shouldn't ignore that's what we're gonna talk about. It's gonna be varied it's gonna be about a lot of different stuff man I love questions from the audience and I'm gonna start off with the first question from Willene. Willene, are you gonna let me know if you're involved in a project or not? But the question is I have heard that manufacturers are putting less asphalt on shingles than in the past how does it is that true and how does that affect the life of the shingle Todd V.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

I am unaware of that statement I do not know the amount of asphalt that goes into each shingle uh it it does make sense based on what Todd was saying how it has different ingredients now to make the shingle more flexible and stronger so if you put in one more ingredient you may take one more ingredient out but I don't have the statistical facts for what's in it and what's not in it.

SPEAKER_02 37:09

I'm sorry for that it's okay you don't you don't have to analyze and be a chemist for every product you just need to know if it works or not based on experience.

SPEAKER_01 37:17

All right Todd W, you want to take a a stab at that and I have seen some uh literature out there that that is the case but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're not in fact I would argue that they've been redesigned reengineered to be better more durable um more more a longer useful life even with that less uh amount of asphalt i the composition changed but I believe my personal opinion the durability they're better shingles now than the were made long ago with the more asphalt all right you know um Willie may there may be a job for you if you're in the in the New York area with Todd is always looking for people that know roofing components and you definitely know your roofing components so thank you so much. Okay um let me have our panel introduce themselves really quickly just in case I do end up splitting this uh for some reason video wise Todd let's do a quick Todd W let's do a quick intro yeah great again thank you for the opportunity uh thanks everybody for joining us here today on my quick background I'm a licensed professional engineer in several states and I've been complete can conduct reserve studies helping communities with capital project planning since 1999 been about 4000 reserve studies in my time here all right Todd V.

SPEAKER_00 38:31

Todigola Adventures Construction Services specialize in the maintenance and care for community style living appreciate the opportunity to be here today Ray hopefully we can get some people uh some answered questions answered for them all right so Todd you're welcome to check your notes if you brought them Todd and I had reviewed these QA before um in this case so I'll start with Todd V.

SPEAKER_02 38:53

Uh we're gonna do short answers on these because we got a lot of them to get to can a deck look safe and still fail I'm talking about can a wooden deck look perfectly safe even when it's at risk of collapsing Todd V.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

Yes very much so um you know the hidden dangers in decks they're hidden they're not the obvious all the time and it's really where the deck um joins to the building. So uh that is one of the areas that is really vulnerable to failure especially uh if installed many years ago under different standards and qualities that are required for today's building codes so yes uh a deck can look perfectly great and you can overload it and simply have a problem thereafter Todd W, can a wooden deck look perfectly safe even when it's at risk of collapsing you can just agree with Todd if you like or add to it.

SPEAKER_01 39:51

It's tough to the integrity of connections is tough to just walk around take a quick walk around a deck and make sure that they ensure that the integrity is there especially railing connections uh there's not easy to just visually a non-invasive visual inspection is it's tough to uh identify that integrity there sometimes so yeah absolutely it can look safe but you could have a serious problem and especially the connections oh there uh willing got back to me there they're taking a look at replacing roofs for their uh upcoming reserve study so thank you so much willan and then someone else had asked me um I guess they saw this preview thing here I just put myself in there for fun I don't know if you can tell it looks like the deck's gonna collapse they wanted me to ask you Todd have you ever found yourself in this exact situation where you're like inspecting a deck and it you feel like it's gonna collapse at that very moment.

SPEAKER_00 40:44

Yes a million times over you know like uh Todd was saying a little earlier invasive testing is really important. So there's many times where we're out there looking at a deck or a group of decks to either respond to the the client or the homeowner and we take a look at what's going on underneath and you realize uh the safety hazards that are are there right in front of you that no one would even notice and it's generally usually lack of uh lag bolts from the ledger board to the building itself or um just rotted wood that people aren't necessarily going to find because they don't crawl underneath their deck all the time and take a look. So structural components fail uh fasteners fail and we found ourselves many a times looking at decks that people most likely shouldn't be on.

SPEAKER_02 41:32

So Todd V, do you have like a guy his name's Bob and he's a little bit on the heavy set side and your test process is you send Bob up there and he jumps on the deck a few times is that how you get the process started it starts with that and you know if it doesn't fail then we throw a few more Bobs up on the deck and see what happens. All right um let's go here with the next one I have here I'll start with Todd V. Repair when can a damaged wooden we're gonna talk about wooden decks today by the way audience when can a damaged wooden deck be repaired and when does the entire deck need to be replaced Todd V.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

So again all all depends on the inspection and the level of the inspection you may come onto a deck that's relatively new let's say seven years even 10 years or less made out of all pressure treated lumber and you may find that the top boards the deck boards that you actually stand on they may be cracked or curling or starting to pull through some screws or some nails so in those circumstances based on a thorough inspection to make sure the structural integrity of the deck is intact you can very easily replace some deck boards remember they sit outside year round they're not furniture. So they're prone to zero degree weather and as you've seen this summer 100 degree weather that's a big change that's going to dry wood out it's gonna change the the way the wood reacts in the temperatures it's gonna crack it's gonna splinter it's gonna split so you should be able to maintenance a deck by going in there and finding some of the boards that have weathered and be able to replace those without having to do an entire deck replacement Todd W, I'm gonna throw you a curveball and I know you have no prep for this I don't know if Todd likes curveballs but he's such a good sport.

SPEAKER_02 43:22

I have a question wood to me is so amazing and it does apply to decks out here on the on the boardwalk 29 stories down for me the wood lasts forever they get this special kind of wood here and it's amazing because we're right on the ocean here wood lasts a long time as a construction project. I'm surprised we're not doing like vinyl decks or plastic decks is there a reason why we're still installing wooden decks is it price is it because wood's just a fantastic resource what is the reason why aren't we just seeing plastic decks or something yeah I wonder if you're referring to what's called epiwood

SPEAKER_01 44:00

Brazilian hardwood that's extremely common nowadays, especially in high-end communities, and that does last, uh, seem to last a long time. Uh, so I I think the traditional, the days of the traditional uh wood decking, cedar, pine, whatever it might be, I think that that's starting to change over to composite way, way more now here. But epi wood, Brazilian hardwood, seems to keep the trend going here with people. They like the look. You like the look of a of that wood decking. Um, just one quick addition to Todd's notes about repair replace. I just when the stain or paint doesn't last very long anymore, it's probably time to consider replacement of that wood.

SPEAKER_02 44:40

Why why would that show if the stain or paint doesn't last very long? Because there's something negative going on with the wood that's causing an issue with the paint or the stain, or is it because it's a time factor and the paint just naturally has an issue?

SPEAKER_01 44:54

The wood has deteriorated to the point where the rate's accelerating. So you use a fresh paint or stain doesn't last very long because that wood continues to deteriorate underneath, and you obviously mess up the stain or the paint.

SPEAKER_02 45:08

Todd, I meant the the wooden decks you run into, they do they vary greatly depending on the developer? Do you do you go to a community and you're saying, like, man, these decks are awesome. And are are some really that awful? Like this?

SPEAKER_00 45:21

This Todd or that uh Todd V, I'm sorry. Okay. So what we find, Ray, is the older the community, the uh more chances of it being built out of pressure-treated lumber. The newer communities are are tending to focus on composite materials. I think it's just uh technology catching up with time and prices bouncing out. If you went for composite materials, you know, 10 years ago, they were way more expensive than pressure-treated lumber. Now there's a much smaller gap in cost, and I think people recognize that, uh, especially condos that are in a situation where they know that the upkeep is for 100 years. So I think that um you'll find that if they go to replace a pressure-treated deck, even though the cost would be a little bit more to go with a uh, you know, a synthetic product, they're doing it because of the length that it'll last. And you know, if you can get it to last twice as long as a pressure-treated deck and it only costs you 15% more to build it, well, you saved 85% over the long run.

SPEAKER_02 46:28

All right. So Kristen Sarranini from McGriff Insurance got back to me. I'm going to read her text message as I see it. It was the question from the first half of the program. And the question I asked was um, I I had text two insurance professionals, but I said, I'm in the middle of a live stream with some roofers and an engineer. And we are wondering if there's a discount in regard to insurance for impact resistant shingles. If you could text me back, I would love to let people know on the live stream. And Kristen Serenini, with the notion that she's in the middle of a managed meeting and she's trying to do this at the same time, responded on the personal lines, homeowners, single family, it is a discount. It is considered a wind mitigate mitigation discount. So there we go. On the commercial side, condo buildings, it would go into the overall rating on the property insurance. Better shingles, newer roofs will rate better, which will improve the premium. And then she did do the disclaimer that she was typing from a meeting. And then she says, Ray, you are so much more knowledgeable than Todd V. And I just wanted to let you know. I made that part up. She didn't put that part in. But thank you so much, uh, Kristen. That was really nice of you to uh fill us in on that. So there you go. Todd W, for me, it sells it a little bit more. There's an insurance discount, I guess, right?

SPEAKER_01 47:49

I'm not an insurance professional, but another another checkbox towards using those a little bit higher cost impact resistant shingles.

SPEAKER_02 47:57

Uh all right, let me ask you something about windows because somebody had asked me something about a window, Todd. This is you know, these questions are questions I got into over, I just don't get to all the questions all the time. I try to. Can a window leak without dripping inside? Can a window be leaking even when no water is dripping into the room? Todd V.

SPEAKER_00 48:22

Yes. So all windows are built into the building themselves. And the window, even though the glass and the frames and the sashes and all that are in good tact and you don't see water coming into the house, what happens is the frame of the window itself needs to be sealed to the plywood of the building. It needs to be watertight. And if you don't use the correct watertight methods and products, as along with flashings, that water can get behind a frame and make its way down and even uh damage the wall below the window, or even if you're on a second floor, even reflect into the ceiling of the first floor uh without showing any signs of water coming through the window itself because it's penetrating from the frame on the exterior of the building and running down and going into the area below it. Obviously, all water goes, you know, goes down. So uh that would be the way that you would not see signs of water in the window, but yet below or around the window.

SPEAKER_02 49:26

Todd W, do you have any additional commentary?

SPEAKER_01 49:31

You could certainly that's sealant, you could certainly have uh perimeter sealant failure that results in uh water filtration into the wall cavity, which could cause problems with the wall system, even though you're not seeing out the interior of the unit. And I almost wonder if the question did the question maybe relate to seal failures, maybe fog in between the panes, possibly, where it's not a leak into the unit, but you're having a seal failure. Uh, I'm not sure on that one. Todd W, curveball.

SPEAKER_02 49:58

I find that I really like throwing you curveball questions, Todd, because I know your engineers, they love to prepare, Todd. They they really do. Uh, but they're great sports and they always come on, but they're, you know, they really like to prepare things. Todd, you know, Todd W, with all the technology we have, right? It seems to me like for the most part, the only reason we would get leaks would be because of human error. Am I right or am I wrong? I wouldn't know.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

And deferred maintenance, right? Failure to take uh to maintain that sealant, that the sealant in a timely manner could be a masonry issue, could be the flashing above that window system is not there or improperly installed, the weep system's not there or improperly installed. Um, it's usually Todd feel free to disagree with me here, but it's usually not the actual window system itself that's the issue, it's something around that window system that has not been properly maintained or installed that's causing you problems or leaks at that window.

SPEAKER_02 50:53

Todd V, let me re-ass the question so I can use it. I try to help you guys out with the shorts all the time, but you gotta let me do my thing here. So let me re-ass the question to Todd V here. Todd, Todd V. I with modern technology construction. Let me restart. Now now you see, I got all frazzled. See, I need to prepare too. Now I'm all frazzled. Todd V, with all the modern components that we're using nowadays for windows and sidings and ceiling, is it safe to make the assumption if there's a leak, it's mostly caused by human error?

SPEAKER_00 51:28

I would say that the chances of a leak from human error are are increased. However, you have to factor in many other situations. Like, for example, you can put a brand new roof on today and install it 100% perfectly, and you could have a driving wind that can tear up a shingle or or rip up a nail, and that could cause a leak, and that wouldn't be considered installation error. That would be considered, you know, like an act of God, so to speak. And so uh, and there's also, remember, there's also product failure. Like, even though everybody says everything is good, cars go back for recalls all the time, right? It's a brand new car, it's got a problem with the backup mirror. Well, the same thing happens. There are products that get delivered to the site that may not fall into the perfection zone and they may have some issues. Um, so uh I would say that yes, there is a chance that there's a leak from human error, but don't forget godly acts as well as material deficiencies.

SPEAKER_02 52:26

No, we want to blame the contractor and the engineer, it's always their fault. No, of course not. All right. Um, audience, I love it. If the J channel, I don't even know what a J channel is, I'm guessing, but I'm not even if a it's amazing what managers know. You guys should be making like 800 grand a year with all the stuff you know. All right, if the J channel was not installed correctly, but it comes down, but it comes down to the way the window was installed. If they used replacement windows versus using a nailing flange, Todd V, does that make any sense to you?

SPEAKER_00 52:59

It does because so window replacements are exactly that, they only replace the window portion, the glass portion, and the sash that it's on. It doesn't replace the frame, the frames are just as old as the glass. So when you go to replace a window, people will say, and there's the there's all the gimmicks out there, you know, renewals and all of this stuff about how great they work. So, yes, you may get a replacement window which will have an R value in the glass of two times what your older window did, correct? So now you feel like, okay, great, I'm gonna have better insulation and I'm gonna have a better product. But the reality is, is that's only 60% of the window. The other 40% is all the other components, the frames, the nailing flanges, and everything else. Those are just as susceptible of being old and having problems as the glass itself. So if you're gonna go to do a window, my advice would always be is get an entire new window, a new window, a new frame, so that you can pull the whole entire window out, flange, frame, etc., and put a whole new window in. And we just talked about this a little while ago about how you have to seal the window to the wall itself. So if you only have a replacement window, you're not even exposing the exterior of the flange to the to the building itself. You're simply just putting in new glass panes, basically. So my suggestion is I'm not a fan of replacement windows. I would use full replacement windows. Therefore, when it came to the J channel, the J channel would have been removed in its entirety and replaced back in its entirety with probably the correct flashing and sealants that are required.

SPEAKER_02 54:41

And you know, the manager that sent it in, your community is so lucky to have you because you could just save them a bundle just based on your knowledge of windows. All right, I I forgot that I have to leave five minutes early. So let's do closing thoughts. I'm gonna give you five seconds, Todd W. No, if you could do closing thoughts at 30 seconds, I would appreciate it because I just got reminded I got to get out of here. But Todd W, for today.

SPEAKER_01 55:03

Great topic, whether it's roofing, window, siding, just make sure everything works together. The flashings, the building wrap, the underlayment, everything has to all work together and be in good shape for that component to work properly. Uh, don't forget a component when doing your projects.

SPEAKER_02 55:17

Todd V, I loved the topic today. I thought you guys were awesome. Last minute stuff. You really did the research. Thank you so much. Todd V, closing thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 55:26

So, as always, trust your professionals, use your engineers, respond to them, communicate with them, trust your contractors, know what you're getting into, have a great communication line while the project is taking place. This way, all your questions are answered at that time, not later when there's a problem. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 55:46

Thanks both of you guys for being here and audience. You are awesome today. Thank you so much for the questions. Bye, everybody. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 55:53

Thank you. Take care.

SPEAKER_02 55:54

Thank you.