Failure Hurts, But It Does Not Define You

Failure can knock the wind out of you, not because you lost, but because it feels like it exposed something about who you are. We sit with that uncomfortable truth and pull it apart: the difference between a bad outcome and a broken identity, why high performers get trapped in “I am a failure,” and how a small language shift can protect your self worth while you still own the lesson.

We also go personal. We talk job loss, the first brutal days when you wake up and do not know what to do next, and the kind of grief that follows the loss of a role, a plan, or a version of yourself. We explore why peace can matter more than chasing happiness, how you can feel anger and still be grounded, and why “closure” can be overrated when you are using the experience to evolve your purpose.

Then we get practical with mindset coaching tools you can use under pressure: focusing on process over outcome, building a 30 day buffer zone so you can feel your feelings without setting your life on fire, and choosing what is actually urgent today. We also talk self care that holds up in real life: rest, PTO, support systems, and updating your “mental gear” so your coping skills keep up with the stress you carry.

If any of this hits home, listen, share it with someone who is in the middle of a hard reset, and leave a review so more people can find the show. What’s one failure you’re still learning from?

These are our own opinions, and this is just for education and entertainment. Take what you want, throw the rest away, and remember your journey is personal to you. 

Thanks for pulling up a chair with us. We love having you here. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 1:02

Hey guys, pull up a chair. Let's get into some stuff. What are we talking about today, Matt?

SPEAKER_00 1:09

I I like the idea of discussing failure, personal, professional, you know, losing something that feels important to you and the pressure of having to continue to move forward because that's that's our society.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

We live in a world where we constantly have to keep moving forward.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Are we allowing ourselves time to process what happened, but also truly develop a plan to move forward without you know becoming too chaotic, random emotions popping back up that interfere with the process. What does that look like? And how I think there's a lot to unpack there.

Separating Identity From Outcomes

SPEAKER_02 1:59

Yeah. I mean, I think the reality is that we we fail all the time. And I think that some failure we normalize and allow to exist, and other failure we put on some big pedestal. And obviously, consequences can definitely vary. But as you've heard me say here before, I think that we can give the template permission to remain the same. Which, if we zoom out and kind of identify the way that, you know, the skills that we have and the tools we already have to overcome failure, I think we can put those in place when failure feels bigger that maybe helps us get stronger. You know, failure I think reveals a lot about us. I've often said that I think that, well, failure breeds more wisdom than success, which I think that success only feels great for people who've experienced failure. You know, so I think, yeah, I mean, just from a performance lens, people who are experiencing failure from like an elite performance standpoint, and how we work and create that space for them, you know after they've gone after something and worked so hard. I would say in the elite sport world, or I guess the sport world, there's like, you know, you have the the one opportunity, the championship, the big game, you know, the big opportunity to showcase your performance to get it right or get it wrong. How do you come back from that? I think it goes deeper than that, right? Failure.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

I mean, do you do you see failure as success?

SPEAKER_02 3:45

I do, but I think that's because it comes down to perspective.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

Oh, 100%. Everything, every a lot of things of a lot of what we do comes down to perspective, right? I think one of the things I try and help people with that may be struggling with mindset or you know, getting over fail getting over what we would call quote unquote a failure, is if you see it as the world is ending, my performance, like how am I going to get out of this? Then yeah, well, welcome to the rut. You just you just hooked yourself, sank yourself deeper in that quicksand. And instead of looking at it as an opportunity to grow. And to me, suc like failure is success. Because if you have if you are in the right mindset, you're you you see it as an opportunity to grow. And to me, that's success.

SPEAKER_02 4:49

Well, failure also means you tried.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:53

Right? Failure feels awful. I think the heavier it feels, or the the bigger the threat is because of how it feels like it threatens who we are and not like what we did. And so back to like perspective and mindset, I think is really about creating the skills to separate that. Right. I mean, from a you know, from a like something that I work with a lot when it comes to mindset and identity is you know, to even the smallest nuance of changing how you talk to somebody or talk to yourself about what you're doing versus what you are, right? So I'm I'm mad versus, you know, I'm feeling mad, or you know, your bad versus your behavior is bad. These little like nuances and just how you know the addition of a couple of extra words changes it from your character is this thing to your behavior, which we have choices over, is this thing. And so, you know, I mean, that little shift right there, right? Like I failed at something, I wanted it so, so bad. It's definitely gonna come with emotions. It's for sure gonna come with emotions and loss and grief and all of those things. But if under all of that, I can also recognize that it wasn't who I was, or that my character is still intact and I still have value, you know, deep down in the roots, then I can also learn from that failure and turn it into something I benefit from down the road.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

No, 100%. I mean, when when when you if we're talking, yeah, high performers, like the the Olympian works so hard for four years for one moment. And from what I have gathered, listening and talking to people in that environment, it is absolutely devastating because they are so bought into that, that's their identity. I I am a failure. When in when you really dive into that, you're not. That moment was not your moment.

SPEAKER_02 7:16

Um you failed, but that doesn't mean you're a failure.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Right, right. And I think what I think one thing that we can talk about failure or lose or losing something that a lot of a lot of people feel more than some is is a loss of job, a loss of something that truly means something to them. They've given they've given themselves and the people that they work with so much. What does it mean?

SPEAKER_02 7:54

So like loss of like loss of purpose or the threat to livelihood, I think you bring up and again, I think when it comes to, you know, when we talk about stakes across performance, like that failure, that failure definitely results in something lost. And that loss could be tied to livelihood, you know. I mean, the people who win, the people who are successful, you know, we get all the positive consequences, all the positive results. So you get the you can get the brand deals, you can get the promotion, you can get the you know, the the winning pot, you can mission success, you know. I think on the other side, the I don't know, the more as I'm sitting, just sitting here thinking about it too, right? Like I don't want to also, I don't want to sugarcoat failure, you know, like not all failure is equal.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

Right.

Job Loss, Grief, And The Dark Place

SPEAKER_02 8:54

I think it's I don't know, things feel like they're failing right now. And and I think so, failure feels like something we're all feeling. And I think reaction to failure is maybe a reaction to what the failure reminds our nervous system of, right? To go back to kind of like maybe why the failure feels so, so deep. And it that goes so back to like job loss, right? It feels like failure. And it can feel like failure because I, you know, how do I pay my bills? How do I like on one level, right? Like, how do I provide for my family? How do I pay my bills? But then there's the next level where it's like, this is all I've worked for, or you know, this was the ladder I was climbing, you know, which then threatens who am I, and then which could threaten something even deeper, right? It could threaten something that I've been working so hard to build, you know, like if I can just get to the top, if I can just get this thing, I'll be okay. I'll have made it, I'll have mattered. And then for whatever reasons the cards are played, it's lost. Who am I now? Who am I? What am I? What am I doing? Speaking from like an incredibly personal perspective here about you know what that feels like. It feels dark.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

Uh it is 100%. Yes, it's dark. It is it takes you to it takes you to a place that if you haven't truly if you haven't truly felt it, it's scary.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

It's very scary. And you can you can get lost in that. Right. And I'll I'll share. August lost my job. Anyone that knows me close to me Friday, weekend goes by, wake up Monday, what do I do?

SPEAKER_02 11:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

What do feeling right? Yes. What do I do? I gave everything to that population, that my co-workers, yeah, and now it's it's gone. The first 48 hours of the new week was the was the hardest. The whole first month was a challenge.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

Because now it's those difficult conversations that you have with the people around you of are we are we looking to move again? What are we doing? So it's you you have to allow yourself to feel your feelings. Like the guy there's a book, a kid's book, feel your feelings. And I I read it to my kids.

SPEAKER_02 11:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

You you have to feel your feelings mentally, your thoughts, physically. You have to acknowledge that they're there.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

And there will be a time where you have to let it go.

SPEAKER_02 12:17

Yeah, I mean, I agree with you, but like you know, the template of what you just described though, is grief, is loss. Right. And so I I think I I agree with you about letting it go. And I think that there's choices we can make about things that we let go or or live with, exist alongside, right? I don't think it's as easy to say, let it go. Now, I do think that we have to move. We have to make steps, we have to, it's dangerous to collapse what's coming up, you know. Like you mentioned a book about failing your feelings. For me, I'm thinking about mindset, right? So referencing Dwak, Carol Dwack, and the growth versus the fixed mindset when failure is interpreted as identity, which for a lot of us it is. And I think that it's identity is an ever-evolving thing, right? So I don't think it's fair to sit here and say that a part of my identity won't feel injured after failure, right? Because just like any loss, I think my identity will be affected. And so I but I think it's about maybe noting it as a part of the experience and not as like the entirety, like the entire result, right? Because when I lose somebody, my identity is affected. When I lose a promotion, when I lose a game, a big game, when I fail, I will have to adjust who I am after that loss. Right. So I kind of feel like it's almost a spectrum within the experience that I will have my identity will be hit, but then I have to move into, you know, what's the takeaway? Who am I after that experience? Right. Because I I don't get to control that the experience happened. I get to work afterwards on like who I am because of the experience. And I get control over that.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

Yes, absolutely. When we we tell the athletes, we tell the performers, like, where where are you putting your focus? Are you focused solely on the outcome or are you focused on the process? And this is I'm by no means a grief counselor. I've certainly felt it across my 40 years of existence. It's a process. And along that process is the accepting and letting go. So that that mindfulness piece of being with the moment, whether uncomfortable or not, and allowing yourself to be while still creating the plan. Because, like you said, you're not the same. I'm not, I'm not the same now that I don't have my mother. I'm not the same because I've lost my job.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

I'm not the same. Am I better? You know, that that's that's that's the is it really about being better or worse?

SPEAKER_02 15:44

Or is it about accepting that like in some way, right, these losses that we're talking about, it leaves it, it imprints you, right? It leaves a mark. It might not be to the level of trauma, but it can feel traumatic. I mean, like you mentioned, right, with your the job loss, which I can relate to, you know, building up a career, climbing a ladder, with like the entire mindset behind the career I was building was to get to a certain spot and to serve a role. And my identity was completely wrapped up in the idea that I was trying to build. And when I lost that job, it completely blew up the mountain I was climbing and it left an imprint for sure.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

Yeah, I I see it as I've become at peace with what happened. The experience, it still hurts, but I'm at peace because funny. I I don't want to like I I don't search for happiness. I want to be happy, but I also have to remember that with happiness there's sadness, and I want to be happy, but at the end of the day, I want to be at peace. I want to be at peace with the moment. And if that moment allows me to be happy, then I want to be happy. If that moment wants me to be sad, I want to be sad. So I look for peace. And five, I don't know, it's felt like an a damn eternity since August.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

Well, because everyone was like 500 days long. So it feels it feels like a year.

SPEAKER_00 17:35

So it it's it feels like I've been, you know, really cranking on this this new business and this new life, yeah, or this new journey forever, and I'm at peace with it. I'm happy right now, and I could be sad later this afternoon, and that's okay because we have to allow ourselves to feel in the moment. Yeah, failure feelings, failure, success, the pressure is there.

SPEAKER_02 18:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

I and I think uh and that is that is it's something that will always stay there. It's just gonna change now. I don't have to worry about getting up at six in the morning to be at work at seven. I still have to get up at six in the morning to get my kids ready for school and get them to school. That that part of my life has changed. Yeah, I now think it's there, it's just different. And it's one of those things where we just I don't want to downplay it either. Well, it changes it just it just changes.

Chasing Peace Over Happiness

SPEAKER_02 18:40

It changes. I guess I'll bring, you know, it probably has like a parallel perspective, but might hit a little bit different is like I'm not at peace. But I want to and up, but let me add some shape to that, right? Like it's like I think it does what significant memories do for you. If I'm gonna bring it up and I'm gonna get started talking about it, I'm gonna get fired up and it's gonna piss me off like it just happened. Right. And like I I spent several years fighting the for the, you know, around the circumstances, and it has completely changed, like it's completely changed the trajectory of my career path. And I'm grateful for it in a lot of ways. But here's why I'm grateful because again, I take, I definitely still get angry, I definitely still get passionate, I still get sad, I still play the what if game. What I try and do, like you said, is I try and allow for that moment, like catch it like a baseball metaphor I use. Like I catch it like a baseball and then make the decision about where I'm gonna throw it. Right. And I think I hear you and I I love that for you. And I I function differently where I don't know. I'm actually maybe I don't know that I feel peace over it. I think it still pisses me off. And I think I turn I decide to channel that into productivity. And I say that because I think that there are, you know, going back to failure and pressure and like there's a weird relief where I'm willing to take risks because I've I've had my mountain blown up and I've fallen to the bottom. So I actually know what that feels like, right? I know what it feels like. I know what control I had and didn't have over it, and I also know that I survived it. That's incredibly empowering information, right? Which makes which makes me a threat to be reckoned with in like the avenues I'm deciding to pursue because I've had that version of a worse day and I'm not really as scared about it anymore because I've experienced it. I think there's other versions that I would say that, you know, like other things I've lost or other traumas I've experienced. And there's a very similar feeling there where I've I'm empowered by some of it. I can't be scared because of things that I've experienced in a way that I feel empowered by the experience I've had. I feel empowered by the emotions that it still churns within me. I've learned to live with that reaction, not necessarily to fight it. I'm not even shocked by it anymore. And I recognize what it does for me and I can live within that space.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

And I think that's what's the what's awesome about peace, because I think you're closer to being at peace than you really think. Because we can still have those reactions, right?

SPEAKER_02 21:39

Every time I get a new email about the situation, I can it just it oh yeah, fires, yep.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

It it brings it up. That doesn't mean I'm not at peace. That emotion has to come because it's still there, it still it does still hurt. Sure. Peace allows you to come back to the moment and be with it to experience it. I think I and I think that's is peace closure to the experience, you know, or is closure different than peace?

SPEAKER_02 22:15

I think it's interesting. I love the definition you're giving, right? Because I the definition you're giving around peace, I mean, aligns with like contentment and also speaks to like the control that I'm taking back over the situation. So is it closure? I don't know. I think that's a really good question because I guess I also maybe closure feels final to me. And I don't, I don't from my perspective, I exist amongst my experiences. The idea of closure creates this idea in me that I'm trying not to exist around it.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

I mean, I'm I've come to accept and and close that my mother is no. Longer here.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

So I think I think they're two different things. And you can have peace and still not have closure. And I think that energy that we get when we talk about those highly emotional things is it not being closed.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

Yeah. That makes sense, right? Because and I think it's that it's that piece right there. But even giving that permission to exist is the biggest thing I can do to take back control over that, right? Like I don't ever have to like that it happened. I can make purpose out of it. I can control what I do with it from here forward. So yeah, I think in that perspective, it's peace without closure, which I'm grateful for because I don't want closure because I'm actually using that to evolve my purpose, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:02

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:04

What we kind of talked about, not all failure is equal. I think that on that note, like I think that there are, I think there is some failure that we experience, you know, that we we get to closure, we accept and move on. And then I think that there's the failure. So coming back to like performance, you know, we've got like you don't win the game, you don't meddle, you don't win the award, you don't win the promotion. That being at peace with it and making it make sense for you, but not letting that settle and turning that back into, you know, the energy, the productivity, channeling, you know, the lack of closure back into like what you do with that information. How do you stay hungry? How do you evolve your purpose forward? I think that's what I'm kind of connecting it back to.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

When you experience failure, whether athletic field, boardroom, personally with a loss of a job, you may feel rock bottom. You stay in there, or are you giving yourself all of the the control to reorganize, recage, restructure your purpose to grow and and be that new person.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

Which bring it which reminds me very much of a Phoenix.

SPEAKER_02 25:27

Yeah. Which, okay, so growth, back to like the growth mindset that I mentioned, right? So there's the perspective. The growth doesn't come from growth doesn't come from the actual failure or the trauma, right? Or the the loss. It comes from how that is integrated. Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

Your response.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

Yeah, because the Phoenix doesn't rise because the fire was good. It rises because to survive it.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

To come back.

Peace Without Closure And The Phoenix

SPEAKER_02 26:01

Yeah. No, I think that's really I can't. I mean, again, I think it's powerful on so many levels. I feel like, you know, okay, so then let me ask you this, right? Because I I can speak to mine, but I'll ask you yours. You mentioned about the first 48 hours. How did you put one foot in front of the other?

SPEAKER_00 26:21

Trust. Trust and knowing after the conversation with those closest to me, my wife, hell, even my my boys. Going, okay, here we are again. What are we doing? Tired of moving. So am I.

SPEAKER_01 26:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

Facts. And accepting the challenge of growing in an environment in a new society here where I'm currently at, so I can provide or potentially provide those in my community the same services that I provided athletes in Pennsylvania, athletes in North Carolina, soldiers in North Carolina, and student pilots and instructor pilots here in Mississippi. The purpose really didn't change, but the way I go about giving the information has changed. I wasn't writing blogs and doing podcasts, and the information still has to get out. But it's trusting yourself and trusting those around you, but understanding the first step is always the hardest.

SPEAKER_02 27:44

Yeah. I I'll speak a little bit differently, right? Like, man, was I angry. Oh, yeah. I was angry. I was devastated. I wanted to light fires. I want to bring up something that you mentioned. And I I did this, right? Like I had I had the practice, I had the tools. You mentioned 30 days, and it's something that I actually work with clients. And I want to bring it up as like a you know a framework for our listeners, you know, is I try to, and I did this with myself and I do it with others about kind of creating like a buffer zone. You know, I often I've told like I've told clients before pity parties, you know, like everybody loves a good party. Just remember that they have an end time, you know. And so with that, you mentioned 30 days after I lost my job, there were certain pieces that I couldn't just rest, right? I needed to figure out how to financially support my family. I was, I was the the primary financial stability at the time. And so it was important. There were certain logistics I had to immediately attest to and figure out. But then within that space, I was trying to figure out like, okay, what do I have to do today? What's on fire today? What's on fire tomorrow? And then if it wasn't on fire, I had to set it down. And I did that, I did that framework for about 30 days. And some days it was, you know, my brain was like, oh my gosh, we're gonna run out of food. Oh my gosh, we're not gonna be able to pay our bills. And on that day, I would say, are they paid today? And that was the tiniest way that I could like set it down and take, you know, and take energy back and put it into something else. My default was not to trust anybody. My default was to, you know, was to pull in. And I made my circle very tiny. And I think the one thing, you know, that I tried to let myself do, even though I didn't really trust it, was some of the skills that I've taught people in transition. And it was interesting to walk the walk that I had talked and how painful it was to, you know, to set things down that my brain wanted to run off the deep end with. And it was to try and be careful and calculated and then to make space to feel and to keep the two separate, right? To try and be business productive, separate from emotionally reactive. Some days it was great, some days it wasn't. It was a really tumultuous, probably more like 90 days, but the 30 days was the toughest. And I've I've used that kind of template with a lot of clients about can you give it 30 days? Can you give yourself 30 days to be a mess? Can you give yourself what is that time frame? And I think for our brains, it was like whatever that time frame is, if it's a day, if it's a week, if it's five minutes, I think giving ourselves permission to be a mess, to be not okay within, you know, with a check-in is super important. Because on the other side of that, maybe just maybe it's maybe it's the only win of the day. I made it through five minutes. I made it through a day. I made it through an hour, I made it through a week. I don't know. It's just I was I was not in the headspace like you mentioned, and I had to trust some of my tools that I didn't want to trust because I didn't want to trust anything. I want to fast forward to like how I felt like I was able to take like empower, right? The that experience. I made a decision to leave an unhealthy environment a couple of years later. So, like a couple of years ago, I made a decision to leave an unhealthy environment that was probably going to follow the same trajectory, or it felt like it was. My nervous system was saying, Oh my gosh, it's happening again. What are we gonna do? And I was able to take the uh awareness, this is happening. And then I was able to be productive about my decisions and take back control of the plays that were made because of the cards that were being dealt. Still felt like crap, still had elements of what am I gonna do with my life now? That wasn't that didn't go the way it was supposed to. The loss of an expectation, it feels like a big, you know, gut punch. But I was also able to do it from lessons learned off of previous failure. So the pressure felt different. I felt more empowered despite the suck.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

Sometimes the hardest thing to do is practice what you preach.

SPEAKER_02 32:27

Oh tell me about it.

SPEAKER_00 32:31

That's that's the hardest thing. We give all this uh help service to the people that come and see us, but at the end of the day, we're our own worst enemy because there's plenty of consultants and therapists and psychologists that don't practice self-care. Yeah, you'll tell an athlete they need to take time off, but we don't do it.

SPEAKER_02 32:57

Yeah, I work really hard to practice what I preach. In fact, I think I think I was really angry at that philosophy that I have tried to maintain. I was I was taught really well in my supervision about self-care and about boundaries. And so then I'm I made it like a core piece of my my philosophy as a therapist. So much so that when, yeah, when I'm going through all of this, I'm angry at the tools I'm going to ask myself to use, but I was holding myself accountable. And on most days, it wasn't for me, it was the people that I was gonna keep showing up to. And like you said, I was gonna keep showing up and I was gonna tell them to take care of themselves. The least I could do was go home and hold myself to those same terms, which was good. I just want to let you guys know that like there were moments where I hated every minute of it.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

It it's it's it's uncomfortable, yeah. It is like to circle back to to mindset. I lean heavily into a realist mindset.

SPEAKER_02 34:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

When I look at mindset, I see it as a spectrum. The victim, the pessimist, the optimist, the realist. You have the the curiosity, that basic level of growth mindset, if we want to call it that. And then you have what I call the warrior mindset that stress is going to enhance my performance.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

This whole failure is stress, failure is pressure, and now it's your time to understand that the next 30 days is going to hurt. The pressure, the stress is there differently than what it was prior to that. Are you looking at this as an opportunity to grow through the stress that way when if it were to happen again later on? You've already felt it. You already know what to expect.

SPEAKER_02 35:09

I think what comes to mind for me as we're talking about all of this is like all of these things feel so relevant. I mean, we're, you know, we're relating them to like individual experiences, we're relating them to sport performance. I think I can go out on a limb and just say, too, like, as our generation, our nervous system hurts.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

Where are the millennials at?

SPEAKER_02 35:36

I mean, it's funny because as we're talking about all of this, right? Like, and don't get me wrong, it all applies. It all applies because if this isn't the circular experience we've been experiencing for all of our adult lives, it's this, it's being a realist. It's I go back to what I was saying about like holding space and allowing for like productivity and emotional reactivity and being able to like make space for both of them, right? Because we have to be productive, and I think some of that will be influenced by emotions, but we also have to allow ourselves to be emotionally reactive. We can't always let those things cross because then we really do set fires. I think it's just that's what's coming up as I'm, you know, as I, you know, hear you talking about, and as we've sat here and had conversations off mic, you know, over these last like six months, right? Where we've we've turned to ourselves, we've turned to each other, we've, you know, and we've been like, I literally said that to a client, so I'm gonna go do that for myself now. Like, you know, like we sit there and we find ourselves feeling the feels being emotionally reactive, feeling stuck, and then pulling out that skill set.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

The the one of the hardest things is to change.

SPEAKER_02 37:07

Yeah, because we hate it.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

Yeah, it's it it's it's hard, it's uncomfortable. Yeah, sometimes asking for help can be seen as a sign of weakness.

SPEAKER_02 37:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:22

And what is it? The the fox, the the mole, the the horse, the fox, the mole, that whatever that story is. I don't quote me on that, but I have that book, I have that book too. The horse is so wise.

SPEAKER_02 37:39

The horse, the fox, and the mole.

SPEAKER_00 37:41

Yes, I feel like so wise. Asking for help is not a sign of weakness, it's it is one of the strongest things you can do because it's the start of change. I wish I would have done it sooner. Yeah, you know, I've got it. I could say that, I could say that anybody could I wish there were moments in my life where I would have asked for help sooner and when received it, followed through with it.

SPEAKER_02 38:17

I think I've I don't know that I've ever personally, but then even like professionally, I would say that there's a lot of us that says that on the other side of feeling better, right? Especially when we hang on to it for a really long time. But what I'll say to that though, too, is like I just I also think that we don't know what we don't know. And as you mentioned, change is scary. And we're, you know, a bunch of we're an independent lot trying to, you know, be survival of the fittest. And I think that as we continue to be raised in a world that says, do it yourself, be the best, just do it, you know, all those things. Like I think that it feels scary that when I'm asking for help, I'm putting myself out there, right? And that's scary as shit. Because now I really do run the risk of failure about me, or that's how it feels.

SPEAKER_00 39:12

I tell I tell athletes and service members all the time, I can't wait to see you fail.

SPEAKER_02 39:21

Yeah.

Tools For The Next 30 Days

SPEAKER_00 39:22

I can't. And and one of my closest colleagues really brought me on to that. There's there's a there's a lot to to failure, to success, to the pressure that comes after. And I think we've done I I hope, I hope we've done a good job at portraying, you know, subtle things that could potentially help someone in that in that moment.

SPEAKER_02 39:54

Yeah, I mean, well, I think, you know, we kind of talked on like a really grand scale, right? Of like going through an experience more than like going through a moment, which I think, you know, pulling on your your performance consultant expertise, which you teach people how to better respond regardless of the reaction, right, in a moment. And then, you know, talking about the the mental impact of whatever happens in that moment or the experience. Yeah, how you overcome, how you or you know, or just to validate like your experience while you're trying to overcome it, which I I think is so important on so many levels because again, I love what you said about failure and agreed, you know, if anybody's working with us, it's probably a part of their protocol. I've I've prescribed failure, I've prescribed rejection, you know, but I I speak from experience and science, you know, but I speak from experience that when we're when we intentionally understand ourselves in failure, especially through training and practice, mentally we give ourselves so much more to better prepare ourselves in performance, which I think sets us up for success regardless of the outcome.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

We're we're always performing.

SPEAKER_02 41:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:34

Society back to this society thing.

SPEAKER_02 41:37

Oh my gosh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:39

We're always performing. Knowing that, are we taking the time when we can take time to care, self-care? Take the PTO, take the vacation, take take the time off.

SPEAKER_02 41:57

Use the tools, use the resources, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:59

Yes, and then when you're coming, hopefully after a break, you're coming back looking at it from a different perspective and going, I didn't think of it that way.

SPEAKER_01 42:13

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 42:14

Because you've allowed your system to take a break.

SPEAKER_02 42:18

Well, to add to that is to, you know, is to evolve or update your mental gear, right? Or clean your mental gear. Because it's something that, again, I don't care what performance you come from. Everybody out there in some sort of an elite performance has updated their gear or clean their gear, bought new gear. You know, I mean, I played softball and I went through several gloves and several bats. I've, you know, been, I was an EMT and I tried to buy the best stethoscope to help me read blood pressure in a moving ambulance. It kind of helped.

SPEAKER_00 43:05

It's a lot of noise in there.

Self Care, Mental Gear, And Sleep

SPEAKER_02 43:07

Yeah, but you know, I mean, but to go across the spectrum, right? Like if you've had to buy new cleats, if you've cleaned your, you know, you cleaned your gear, you had to replace your vest. I think what we're really just saying, right, is this you gotta do that with your the mental version, the mental gear, the mental tools, they need to evolve and get up to the you know, the most updated model out there too.

SPEAKER_00 43:33

I mean, I'd love to have a sleep expert come on. The science behind sleep and truly cleaning the brain out of the waste. Yeah, is is like again, there's there's the there's there's an episode there. Yeah, no, I I think it's like clean your mental gear. You're doing that through probably sleeping better.

SPEAKER_02 44:03

Sleep is one of those, like it sounds crazy, right? But it's like just another one of those things, and maybe that's you know, we're on the hunt. So if you're listening and you're a sleep expert, we want you here.

SPEAKER_00 44:17

Bring it. Chairs, chairs open.

SPEAKER_02 44:20

Yeah, seat at the table is yours.

SPEAKER_00 44:24

I love I love this chat. This was an awesome chat.

SPEAKER_02 44:28

I agree. I think this was, you know, I again, I think it's what's on a lot of our minds. I think if we can, you know, shape it and talk about it in a way where we all feel like we're you know pulling something away. I'm here for it. Thanks for, you know, out there to everybody for hanging out with us again and send us a comment, you know, send us an email, tell us what you think, tell us what you think about shame and failure and getting back up. Up and getting back out there. We look forward to hearing from you. Maybe it'll inspire another episode.

SPEAKER_00 45:08

Absolutely. If you got, if you think we're off our rocker, let's go. Let's have it. Let's come sit at the table and tell us. Yeah. Let's talk, please.

SPEAKER_02 45:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:18

So I appreciate it. And I can't wait until the next.

SPEAKER_02 45:23

Yeah. Yeah. You know what? Until next time, you guys, this is under pressure. See you later.

SPEAKER_00 45:29

Bye.