Faith, Justice, and Courage: Lessons from Judge Gabrielle Kirk McDonald Part 2

In this inspiring episode of Ask Dr. Sujay, Ambassador Susan Johnson Cook sits down with trailblazing Judge Gabrielle Kirk McDonald for a powerful conversation about faith, leadership, civil rights, and purpose driven success. As the first African American woman federal judge in Texas and one of the most respected voices in international law and justice, Judge McDonald reflects on the mentors, experiences, and moments of courage that shaped her groundbreaking career.

From her time with the NAACP Legal Defense Fund alongside legendary leaders like Thurgood Marshall, Marian Wright Edelman, and Constance Baker Motley, to the life changing phone call from Senator Lloyd Bentsen that ultimately led to her federal judgeship appointment by President Jimmy Carter, Judge McDonald shares the realities of overcoming barriers in spaces where few women and even fewer Black women had ever been represented.

This episode also explores the role of faith in leadership, the importance of purpose, resilience in the face of adversity, and how life experiences often prepare us for assignments far greater than we initially understand. Through wisdom, humility, and remarkable storytelling, Judge McDonald offers timeless lessons on leadership, courage, service, and breaking generational ceilings while creating pathways for others to follow. 

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:03

Do you ever wonder how faith fits into leadership or how to lead with both power and purpose? If you're looking for wisdom that bridges culture, confidence, and calling, then this podcast is for you. Here's Global Diplomat, Business Strategist, and Women's Empowerment icon, your host, Ambassador Susan Johnson Cook.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

So let me ask you, Constance Baker Motley is one of your mentors, role models. Tell us about why she was so important to you and why she's so important to the race, and then tell us about the life-changing phone call from Lloyd Benson.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

Well, let's see. Constance Baker Motley, Judge Motley, who I got to know, but I could never call Connie. I called her Judge Motley. She was smart, she was courageous, she was committed to the cause.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Where did you meet her?

SPEAKER_02 1:02

Oh. Where did I first meet her? Probably in New York when I joined the Legal Defense Fund. She wasn't with the Legal Defense Fund then. She had left. She became the first federal judge in 1966, and I joined the Legal Defense Fund in 1966. So she wasn't then there then. But we were a small community, and I met her then. She was just the ideal.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Who were some of your other role models? Who were the women and the men who were placed?

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Well, there weren't many role models. That's the problem. Of course, there was Thurgood Marshall, but he was removed. But the whole legal staff of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund at that time, there were, oh my, there were 12 of us, I guess. And Jack Greenberg was the director-counsel. James Nabret, Jr., his father had been very active in the architecture of the civil rights movement, was the associate general counsel. And then you had a staff of lawyers. So really all of them. Marion Wright Edelman, well, she was Marion Wright then. She was at the NAACP Legal Defense Fund Office in Jackson. All of them were my mentors. Not that you necessarily look up to them because there weren't a lot of people at that time who had achieved any prominence, name prominence, but it was people you worked with. And that's where I really honed my skills, my skills as a lawyer. And we were working as civil rights lawyers. And I remember I graduated from Howard, of course, but all of the lawyers there were from Ivy League schools. And I can remember when I took the bar exam and I would the New York bar exam, which is one of the very difficult ones. And it was like I had Howard University on my shoulders because I was so concerned that I wouldn't pass. And that would somehow impact Howard. Did you pass? So well, I did pass the first time. And then well, that's another story. Someone was moving my hand, I know, because the multiple choice questions, you know, you have four questions and you eliminate two, and then you have two left.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

So let's talk about that. What's the role of faith in your life? Is faith an important piece?

SPEAKER_02 3:20

Well, and I've said years and years, I mean, then when I found out that I had passed, that someone was moving my hand, someone was making those selections. And when I go back to what happened in 1951 or so on Netherlands Avenue, and then I look and I ended up in the country of the Netherlands, I think it's part of a continuum. And someone who I call God, it may be coincidence, someone I think was pulling those strings. Because, you know, there are hundreds, thousands, millions of uh people who are qualified. But why me? I don't look upon it as me. I think that it was really for a purpose. And it was probably because of my youth growing up and a r with a biracial mother and the many incidents that I had because of that situation, and then that took me to civil rights.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Right.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

And but to begin it, you had to pass pass a bar.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Talk about Lloyd Benson calling you. Tell us about that call and where did it take you?

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Well, the call I was called, I was in Texas then, and I had left the legal defense fund, married, and we, Mark and I, my husband, the other part of McDonnell and McDonnell, had developed a civil rights practice because I discovered that Houston was worse than Mississippi, and many places that I traveled in the South as of with the Legal Defense Fund. And so I developed a reputation as being either very bright and courageous or a little crazy, because we were suing all of the major petrochemical companies, the mining companies, because there wasn't believe it or not, there was no one there to do it. Houston is unusual in that you didn't have the poverty and the severe unemployment of blacks that you have in other locations. We were employed but underemployed. So I began to do that. And the law firms that represented the companies were the major law firms with hundreds of lawyers. So I developed that reputation as being, I was in my late 20s when I began, and then in early 30s, and I received a call from Lloyd Benson's campaign manager, and I was 35 at the time. And the person said, Well, are you interested in becoming a federal judge? You might as well have asked me if I wanted to be an astronaut. You know. The federal judge was, you know, I was 35, black, a woman. I had no hope, as many young people have no hope, for a certain level of achievement because you see no one in those positions. And so he asked for a resume. So I said, well, let me get together a resume, one that is, you know, really hopefully reflects the best, the best in me. And I did, sent it to him, and then he scheduled an interview, and I met with him once, and then met with him again, and he told me in Washington, I remember, I flew to Washington, and I remember thinking that if the senator is not going to do something positive for me, why do I have to go to Washington? You know, so I met with him, and he said that if the omnibus judgeship bill was passed, which was creating a number of judgeships, federal judgeships, that he was going to submit my name. And well, you know, I was hoping, but again, hoping without some realistic evidence of what's happened in the past is difficult. And sure enough, the omnibus judge ship bill did pass, and I was he submitted my name to President Jimmy Carter. Okay, and then I became the third African-American woman after Constance Begar-Motley and Judge Lowe, both of whom in New York, Southern District of New York, and the only black uh of any gender in the South.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Wow, I think we should applaud for that. In fact, we're gonna take one break and we'll be right back.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

So that's it for today's episode of Ask Dr. Sujay. Head on over to Apple Podcasts iTunes or wherever you subscribe to listen to the show. One lucky listener every single week who posts a review on Apple Podcasts or iTunes will win a chance in the grand prize drawing to win a $15,000 private VIP day with Dr. Sujay herself. Be sure to head on over to askdrsujay.com and pick up a free copy of Dr. Sujay's gift and join us on the next episode.