Mom Group with Kate & Emily
Mom Group is a podcast for anxious moms, busy moms, and all the moms just trying to hold it all together.
Mom Group with Kate & Emily
Ep. 7: The world isn't set up for working moms
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We've all heard the meme-worthy quote: Modern moms are expected to work like they don't have kids and parent like they don't have to work. With expectations at an all-time high, it's no wonder we feel like we're failing at all of it.
Welcome to Mom Group, the podcast for anxious moms, busy moms, and all the moms trying to hold it all together.
SPEAKER_00We're your friends, Kate and Emily. Two moments who know what it feels like to juggle kids, schedules, and that never-ending mental load, all while trying not to lose ourselves in the process.
SPEAKER_01We'll talk about the messy moments, the funny ones, and the things that keep us up at night. Because we all know motherhood isn't always perfect.
SPEAKER_00Whether you're listening in the carbo line, hiding in the pantry for a little peace and quiet, or just needing to hear from someone who gets it, you're in the right place.
SPEAKER_01So grab your coffee or reheat it for the third time. And let's dive in to Mom Group.
SPEAKER_00Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Mom Group with Kate and Emily. I'm Kate here with Emily. And um, yeah, we're excited to be back. Uh this is our seventh episode of season one. And uh let's just start as we have been by catching up a little bit. Emily, how are you? I'm good.
SPEAKER_01Um What's been going on? I know, I'm trying to think like what's up in our world. I feel like this week has been a lot of like my brain is filled with all the things that are upcoming. So I know we always say, like, oh, the holidays just passed, but like as soon as we get through those holidays, yeah, I'm like, on to the next. New things are coming. Right. We have two spring birthdays. So it's like time to start planning birthday parties, time to start getting Easter basket stuff ready because I swear if I wait too long, everything is gone in the store. So it seems so crazy to like want to buy Easter stuff.
SPEAKER_00Well, and it's been out in the stores for like weeks now, and it's February still.
SPEAKER_01So, like, right, do I want to buy Easter candy at the beginning of March or wait and then it's not there? Like, I don't know. So I feel like that's just where my brain is. Like, yeah, okay, we are on. Like, we have to sign up for summer camp.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god, yes, summer camp.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like I I feel like I shouldn't be doing this with snow still on the ground. Um, but here we are.
SPEAKER_00But you w have to, or it's all like filled up already. I know. Yeah, what about you guys? About the same, yeah. Um depending on when this um airs, Clayton will is about to be eight or will have turned eight, so um, that's a little crazy. But yeah, just um look at the biggest. Are you guys doing anything special for his birthday? Just doing like a little family dinner here at the house, and then um he actually has to let me know what he wants to do because we're either gonna do um monster mini golf, which is like an indoor miniature golf here in town, or um roller skating. So he's I think pondering those two activities. Monster minigolf is a fave of ours. I do enjoy it. I like it. I also actually really had a fun time. We went skating. Um the elementary school had a little fundraiser at the skating rink recently, and it was really fun. I the last time we went, I rented like the for myself. I have to help Brendan because he's only five, so I like had to go out and skate. And I did like the roller skates, and it was very hard, and I couldn't do it, and I was like a baby deer, and I was like, why is this not like riding a bike where it just comes back to you? Well, this time the girl was like, I think you should get the inline skate, like the rollerblades, and it was much easier. So I did have a lot of fun and I said I want to go back. So if he p if he chooses the skating, I will Will they let you just like walk the skating rank? Which come to find, yes, they will, and other moms were doing that, but um I did rent them and because I would be so afraid that I would be like trying to help Hazel or Noah and then like fall on my face and then like pull them down with me on the right, like yeah, so yes, after the fact I did notice some moms just like walk walking around like no, it's fine. I just really like muscate. But it was actually fun. So if we it either one, it'll be it'll be good. But yeah, that's awesome. And yeah, just like you know, all the spring stuff is coming up, and I don't know, we're just always we're on to the next.
SPEAKER_01I know, that's how it always is. Well, can we talk about something that doesn't get said out loud enough? America is just not built for working moms, and uh most of us are quietly drowning, trying to make it all work, and if the system actually supported working moms, would we all still be this exhausted?
SPEAKER_00That is a great question. Um, yeah, I mean, all of what you've said is so true. And um, I have been hearing this conversation out there a little more recently, but true, like you said, it's just not really talked about enough, or I don't think there's been enough progress in this area, obviously, of like figuring out how we can support moms who either have to work or want to work. Um yeah, if we'd figure that out, we'd all be in a better place. But um, yeah, and I mean Emily, you in particular have uh like a a daily schedule that I think makes it particularly difficult to kind of manage your your work schedule with, you know, where your kids need to be and when. Um, so we just kind of refresh our listeners' memory. What does your day uh look like? Because I know you're up and out of the house very early. Your husband has to do drop-offs and um, so yeah, how do you all how do you guys make that work?
SPEAKER_01It's like a tight ship in the morning. Um It is hard. I mean, I should be at my building by 7 15. I think is like my scheduled time that I'm like supposed to be walking in the door. And um I can't that's say that it's always yeah, like sometimes I'm there earlier, sometimes I'm there a few minutes late. Like it is what it is, but I get up every day at 6 a.m. I cannot picture a day where earlier would ever happen. Yeah. No, well, that's already earlier than we wake up. Right. So like I'm up at six, I shower, get dressed, while Zach is like waking up the kids and getting them dressed. But then, like, a lot of times they are struggling in the morning. So by the time I'm dressed, I'm going in their rooms and like he's now going to take a shower and I'm still getting them dressed and up and ready. But then like I go downstairs, I pack lunches, I do Hazel's hair, I check homework's completed, I make sure we have show and share or the special dress-up days prepared, or you know, like does Noah have mismatched socks like for crazy sock day, you know?
SPEAKER_00It's like every day that happens. I know.
SPEAKER_01It's there's way more like spirit weeks than there needs to be. Although I kind of I like a spirit week for myself. Yeah. Because that's fun. Then they at least tell me what I have to wear.
SPEAKER_00It's less thought in the morning.
SPEAKER_01One less decision I need. But like then I also still have to like pack my own lunch if I'm going to pack, which like a lot of times that's the last thing that I do, and then I end up ordering out when I get to work, you know? Um, but like fill my water bottle, m let the dog out, yeah. Like all before I even leave the house, and I try to leave the house in like 10 of seven. Yeah. So it's like in 50 minutes. That's a lot. I'm cramming all of this in and like not without the help of my husband, but like, you know, we run a pretty tight schedule, and some days it goes better than others.
SPEAKER_00But are you a morning person? I just need to ask to like set the the context for this conversation. Or maybe you've become one having to do all this.
SPEAKER_01I think that I am a morning person. Yeah, like it's fine. I can get up and get move in. Like, that's never been an issue.
SPEAKER_00Because I'm not, and I think like I mean it's probably like anything else you could like train yourself, but like to just do all the things you just went through at that hour, like makes me want to be sick. Like I can't my brain does not like work at that time. I think I would have to like really if I had to, I could, but like that's just a lot for the morning, like right when you are getting up.
SPEAKER_01I think what's so hard too is like I have to be to work by seven, seven, seven, fifteen. Noah doesn't s like his school doesn't start until nine o'clock.
SPEAKER_00Right. Yeah, I think that's like setting the stage for this conversation is like how if you if you didn't have a sp a spouse who has a relatively flexible like work from home schedule, like we have in my household, one of us does, one of us doesn't. Like, what do people do? What are people expected to do? Um all of the solutions are cost money or you know, involve a village or like whatever it is to like make it work so that you can even just get to your own job that mo many most of us need to have. Like most of us need the two-parent working household in this day and age. So it's like all of the stuff that goes into even just like enabling both of us to be working in the day. Um but yeah, sorry to cut you off. Just like the fact that his school starts two hours after your job starts, and you're only really able to make it work because Zach can take him or you you got into the the before care lottery or like whatever it is. Right. Or you have the funds to like.
SPEAKER_01And then like on top of it, if you like uh just like touching back on like just like how working full time, like on this schedule, right? Like that's just my morning. Yeah. And then I go and work an eight-hour shift, you know, and then come home, and now we have to pick, you know, them up, yeah. Pick up two kids at two different locations, get them home, go to whatever after school activities, if there are any for that day, you know, do homework, cook dinner, do the laundry, put the dishes in the dishwasher, feed the dog, check the homework, like unpack the backpacks, repack the backpacks, like my head is spinning. I know. It's just like a lot, and like uh the you know, I feel like society wants you to work as if you don't have kids, but have kids as if you don't have a full-time job. So true. Yeah, and I just feel like we as a country need to figure out a way to do better. There's gotta be. But hey, how about you? Because I know that you have more of a flexible schedule, but you also have a husband who travels a lot more.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So it's tricky. I feel like there's like two versions of our, you know, our life, our routine. It's like the one if he's here, he usually has to be in the office. Um, sometimes he can be home if you know it's lighter and if he was just away or is catching up or whatever. But yeah, I have the flexible job, which I would say though, that is what like leads me to like being the one that kind of handles all the extra stuff because I have the flexible work situation. And by flexible, I mean like I'm remote five days a week. Um, my coworkers are, you know, we're all in like kind of similar situations with young kids. So like everybody's understanding of like you're not necessarily sitting at your desk for n for eight hours in a row. Um, but that said, since my job is the flexible job, I take on the like random stuff, you know, like going to the doctors or whatever. So like if I am handling something else non-work related during the day, like I do work at night then, um, or whatever, you know, needs to happen to get my stuff done. So it is just like I'm happy and grateful, and certainly one of us in this stage of life would need to have that flexibility. Um, and you know, that's a reason why like I'm happy in this job, and like um, we talked in a past episode about like I don't necessarily know that like I'm in the most like ambitious stage of life right now because it's like no, I'm just content with where I am, and there's so many like trade-offs. But um, yeah, I mean, my but don't you think that that's just sad that even though you have a flexible schedule, right?
SPEAKER_01That like then you're just working at night to like like that society makes us feel like we have to get this amount of work done. No, that's very true. You know, like we should be able to take an hour to take our kid to a dentist appointment. You know, and also like that's another like underlying thing to all of this, right? Is like my kids' doctor's offices or dental offices only have so many hours that tend to be during the work day.
SPEAKER_00I know when I call, they're always like you kind of get like, well, do you have anything after three? And they're like, uh, not really. Like everybody wants the one that's after school, first of all, after school, so you're not pulling the kid out early from school, but like second of all, like maybe after five, so I don't have to like take PTO or like whatever it is during the workday. Not to mention a couple of like Clayton's piano lesson is at four o'clock, which is like it's fine, and like I wanted to do the lessons, we love the guy, the um teacher, but like I took so I took the one that was free, but like then I often leave work to take him there and get him there, and it's like still the work day. So like those days I know I'll be probably working later. Yeah. Um, so there's just so much to juggle at. Like, I think the point is like we've in so many ways like gotten out of like where a nine to five makes sense, except for like the workplaces haven't necessarily like adapted to like catching up to that. Right.
SPEAKER_01And I am fortunate in that regard, but like to think before we started recording, we were talking about this and just like the fact that technology has made work so much easier in a way, you know, just by like like you're able to just get things done at a more rapid speed, you know, than when they did things pen and paper. And sure. Um, but we have not adjusted schedules to accommodate for the fact that we are getting so much more done.
SPEAKER_00We're still doing the five days a week and these specific hours, and like many places are calling folks back to the office from remote arrangements, like just because for like no good reason other than like that's how it's done. Um yeah, so there's a lot of catching up that needs that needs to be done.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think we're just trying to survive in a system that expects full-time careers, full-time parenting, full-time emotional regulation, and somehow full-time self-care. Right. And then we blame ourselves when we're exhausted.
SPEAKER_00Like nobody could nobody can succeed under those sorts of uh expectations. So Yeah. When I've heard your point about um I don't even know what I was thinking about, but I'm thinking about you hear about the motherhood penalty of like it's it's usually the mom who will like put or the woman in the whatever I'm trying to say, who will like pause her career or pause her ambitions or whatever to like make the rest of the life kind of go as planned. And I think about that with myself. Like I'm happy where I am right now and I, you know, recognize that it's like great for this phase of life. But yeah, it's like typically it's the mom that is like going to stay home for a few years or going to like you know, not go for the promotion or whatever it is, just to like make everything else keep spinning. So I think that's an interesting topic.
SPEAKER_01And I think that that is 100% true. And I feel like you even kind of admitted that when you know, you say you have the flexible schedule and that is accurate, but also like yeah, you're okay with saying because I have the flexible schedule, I will take the kids to the doctor, or because I have the flexible schedule, yeah, I will take them to their piano lesson, you know? Uh-huh. And I mean, I know Kevin's a great dad, so like no dig on him. No. But we as moms are like, okay. Yep, yep, yep. It's okay. It's just kind of like how it is. Yeah. Yeah. But like as a society, like let's I know figure that out. Figure it out. And like how can we feel like we're not failing at something when you cannot g give a hundred percent to everything. You know, my job wants a hundred percent, my kids want a hundred percent, my husband wants a hundred percent, yeah, the house needs a hundred percent.
SPEAKER_00Coda needs a hundred percent. That's her job. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But I don't have seven hundred percent to give.
SPEAKER_00So it's like you do have to accept like you know, your eighty percent or whatever it is in each of those areas and just kind of like figure out how to be okay with like not being amazing at anything. But that's a hard pill to swallow, and I don't think most of us are like okay with that feeling.
SPEAKER_01And that I think is what boils down to like how can you feel like you're not failing at something like that.
SPEAKER_00There's so many things like I wish I could do this, or I wish I could you know, I'm not in a great like workout routine or like whatever, like letting certain balls drop. Um, I think another interesting thing that I've seen talked about recently is like some of the balls are glass and some of the balls are not glass, rubber, I don't know. Rubber. Some of them will break if they fall, and so you've got to protect those, and other ones you have to learn to like be okay with they drop, knowing that they will like be okay and you can come back to them a different time. You can't drop the glass balls, and so it's like prioritizing, but like like the kids and your family always come first.
SPEAKER_01Sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's a glass ball. But like there's just like seasons of stuff that's like knowing you're not gonna have time for that right now, but it's not a good feeling, and it's not a good feeling to know you like did an okay job but not a great job at anything. Like, I don't like that feeling. And it's just like the system, it's a product of the system, not necessarily like our work ethic or like anything wrong with us, but like that's how it always feels. It's like I didn't have the capacity, like I wasn't good enough, I didn't make the time, like whatever, even though we're all pretty much like predisposed to fail.
SPEAKER_01But how could you not fail with the way the system is set up? Yeah, a hundred percent. I like I feel like I've seen like a meme at some point that says, like, you know, you can have your hair done, your kids clean, or your house clean, or like your hair clean, your house clean, or your kids clean, and like, but it can't be all at the same time.
SPEAKER_00Like me with greasy hair. Let's be real. So that's it. Yeah, and I think like it certainly plays a role in like the anxiety piece that we, you know, that's one of our like main topics, right? Is like of course we have anxiety around all of this, and um, you know, I think the generations after us will, with just like more and more pressure and anxiety or um, you know, expectations around the things that we're supposed to be doing, and none of us have any more time, we just have less time, it feels like. And um, yeah, so I think that that's such a key point, right?
SPEAKER_01I feel like I've had conversations with my mom before about anxiety, and my whole family is riddled with anxiety, but I feel like it was never anything that they ever like talked about. Yeah, you know, and now it's just becoming so like relevant in life and stuff that like it's talked about more, and like this person has anxiety or this person's on anxiety medication, this person's in therapy, blah blah blah. And my mom's always like, I just don't understand. And I'm like, How could you not see that society is causing this? Like it's different than when they were raising us. Right. With the fact that we have social media and like all the technology and this idea that we have to work, you know, a full-time job and raise a family and do 9,000 activities, how could someone not have anxiety?
SPEAKER_00And I think like this it's it's all connected, right? But like this economy that we're in, it's like like I was saying before, most of us, many or most of us, I don't know the stats, but like need to b have both parents working. Or, you know, the the mom or one of the partners like wants to work, but like it's just too expensive to do the daycare, so then they stay home and they don't want to stay home. It's like one of those scenarios. But um you know, our parents' generation, like many of many moms, typically it was the moms, would stay home and like they could still afford the life that they had with the one salary, and like that's just not the reality today. Like you our parents like bought homes with one salary in many cases, and like them our parents had more time to to be with us and like focus on things now. You just have like two burnt out parents in this society, so it's just like everything is different, slash like I think of that too.
SPEAKER_01Like, I feel like a lot of families grew up with like one car, yeah. You know, and just like times were simpler and obviously like it we're not going back to that, and you know, we're gonna adjust to the way that society is now, but I think that that is just so I don't know where I was going with this, but I th it's just like so crazy to think that like people could function like that, and now of course we will be riddled with anxiety because we have so much pressure and so much there's so many demands on us, and and like like we said other times, it's like the pressure to do a million things and keep up with the Joneses and like whatever.
SPEAKER_00It's like it comes at you from all from all sides, right? Um I want to ask you though, what what do you think we can change? Like I mean, it's like the million dollar question, but things that come to mind for me, it's like there have to be more flexible work options, or like what can we start outsourcing? Like I know a lot of people, whether it's a house cleaner or a launch. Serve and again, like these things are it is extremely privileged to be able to do any of this. Um, but for people who have the means, it's like outsourcing something to like make your life easier and take a little bit of something off your plate. Um, those are just some ideas, but like what can we do in like even like little things to just like try to change the all the all the demands and all the pressures and like yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean at this point I think the biggest thing is the flexible work options, you know, just like more jobs out there that write are like part-time that still pay a livable wage.
SPEAKER_00Um that's what you don't see. I feel like you do see part-time options, but it's like it's really not like it's not salaries, something that would even be like if you're really relevant on two salaries, it would be right.
SPEAKER_01Like you need something that still pays you like a decent salary where you could work less hours or a part-time job that still offers benefits. Because a lot of part-time jobs, like they don't want to then pay your health benefits or anything like that.
SPEAKER_00So you're only part-time, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right. And I just don't think that that's fair, especially with the technology that we have. I could probably get the same amount of work done in a part-time job as I could now. Yeah. Like focusing. I also think like, you know, you are super lucky to have a work from home, you know, and I think a lot of people now have a work from home. My husband works from home. Um, and like just more options of that, too. Of like, I know a lot of companies are calling people back in, but for really no good reason. For really no good reason. But like we are lucky in the sense that Zach works from home. And like the other day, Hazel was off from school and he still had to work, but could stay home with her so that we didn't have to find other options. Right. Something that he does. And like sometimes he does have to burn a PTO day, like depending, but like but again, he did work on Sunday. Sure. To then be off with her on Monday, still working on Monday. But at least like he lightened his load a little bit. He was able to lighten his load. He's not getting overtime for that Sunday. Correct. Yeah. So I mean it's really hard. And then it just like, like you said, the economy is crap right now, you know. A like childcare is so expensive. It's expensive. So if you go through like your kids' school calendar, right, and count up every single day that they have off that like a like a non-school job does not have all of those days off, you know? And then all of the half days, like right now, uh Hazel is in a Jewish daycare, so um, you know, they observe all the Jewish holidays, yeah, which is great, and you know, we love that for her, but at the same time. I love that she's getting that culture and that, you know, like experience. Yeah. But there are so many Jewish holidays with line up with the public school. So then we and she get has a lot of half days because a lot of the Jewish holidays start at sundown. So they will do a half day on those. Right. And like it's hard to figure that out. Like, I mean, we're doing it, but that's not easy. Right. You tend to burn, like, I don't get right. I I feel like I recently went through um Noah's school calendar and like counted up all of the days that he's off and like luckily I also work in the school district, so I'm offline portion of those. But if I wasn't in a school district, there was like 29 days or something in the school year that they are off just like these random days or like holidays and stuff. And it's like, do you get 29 PTO days? Because I don't I don't think so.
SPEAKER_00And even if I did, it would be like that's the max, and then there's like none left for a like god forbid a for a vacation, right? Like it's like you've just used all your days to like be home when to be home when they're gonna have days off, you know.
SPEAKER_01And then I don't want to burn out my in-laws, right, who do take my kids often, and you know, they are very good and offer us a lot of support when it comes to time off with the kids, and they will take them. Like my kids were just off on Tuesday for Lunar New Year.
SPEAKER_00Which is like great that they deserve all of these different things.
SPEAKER_01A hundred percent it adds up. But like luckily, my in-laws took the kids and like were able to do something really fun with them.
SPEAKER_00But you and I are both lucky in the having of the the like. Because a lot of people don't a lot of people don't, and I just wonder what people do because a lot of how many options are there out there for like a drop-in. You know, I can think of one in our area that ha is like a drop-in kind of place, but you know, that put that fills up too, because everybody's looking for that one day. So just not a lot of options.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I and I mean yeah, the million dollar question of what can we change? And I mean so much, yeah, yet so little.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean, I think it's the reality is like having these conversations can help, and just you know, I know you and I are in similar spaces, like on the internet and like on Instagram of just like people that are ha people are starting to have these conversations about the need for change. Um the need for like better parental leave. Yes. And yeah. Getting away from like nine to fives in an office and you know, work being able to look different than what we may have been told work looks like growing up or whatever it is, just um or being okay with, like we said, working in a job that maybe you don't love or that looks different just because like it's it offers you something that you need. But I think it's just it's little and it's incremental, but like having these conversations can lead to to little change little by little, um, I hope. But again, it's it's just hard. It's like the school day ends at three, work ends at five, and I literally was just gonna say that, right?
SPEAKER_01Like going back to like what is something that we could change, possibly the school schedule, right? Like if parents are supposed to work nine to five, right, you know, that but your kids get done at three, like, and then you're supposed to get into aftercare, which then costs money or is a lottery, and not everybody gets in, which you know, Zach and I experienced that last year with not getting into the extra. We didn't get into before or after care. And then eventually we were able to get into the before care, which was helpful because Zach's supposed to start his day at a certain time, and then we're just plopping Noah in front of the TV for an extra two hours before he can go to school, you know. So like that was a mess. But then I had to arrange my schedule to then be able to pick him up last year, which worked out but wasn't like sustainable. Right, you know, you're having like jump through hoops basically. And now it's like when the lottery opens for before and after care, we're on there like lightning, like both people are like at the same time. Literally cutthroat. And we are in there like both doing it at the same time that like hopefully one of us gets in before the other. Like it's that's wild. It's nobody should have to stress like that. So like maybe they could adjust like the school schedules as well.
SPEAKER_00So I do think it's again, like this is all I think predicated on probably one working parent. And then just like things changed. Now we really are mostly two working parent households, and yet all these other things didn't change to keep up.
SPEAKER_01So a hundred percent.
SPEAKER_00Not to say I want my kids in school a million hours a day, but like something at some point, like it needs to align, or it just doesn't work at a certain point. Right. A hundred percent. Um, so yeah, there you go. We solved everything. Yeah, we solved all the problems. I wish, but I don't know. No, I mean I think all we can do is have these conversations, right? And just hope that someday it gets fixed. I don't know. But yeah, no, just having the conversations and advocating in any way that we can. But um, it's hard. It's hard not to feel burnt out and it's hard not to um feel so, so exhausted, and just you know not not proud of the work you're doing in any realm, you know? Just yeah, like you're hanging on. It's not a good feeling to be like, well, you know, I wasn't patient with the kids, I wasn't present at work, I was doing a million things during the work day. Like that's not it's not a sustainable, enjoyable life. So Yeah. Something's gotta change.
SPEAKER_01We're just two moms talking about it. Just two moms. Just two moms. I got nothing for it. With a wish and a prayer. Yes. Yes. But well, this was a good topic. And I feel like lighter with like getting some of that out. I agree. I'm just like, you know, I feel like some of this stuff causes me to like feel angry. Yeah. I think that's society, you know. And I think that being able to talk about it for sure, you know, in this like open and safe space is like yeah very helpful.
SPEAKER_00Because we, you know, we know that we're not the only ones feeling this too, so we're just here to say that we're with you and um you are doing a great job. It might not feel like it, but you are.
SPEAKER_01And everybody's giving the same one hundred percent that is divided a million ways.
SPEAKER_00Trying to pull from the 700% that we don't have. Yeah. Um, great job, moms. Yeah. Hang in there for listening, and we'll talk to you soon. Talk to you soon. Bye.