Momfuel & Mindset - Episode 18: Sleep Training w/ Special Guest Bailey Watkins!

Sleep training can feel overwhelming, emotional, and honestly… a little intimidating. But what if everything you thought about it wasn’t the full picture? In this episode, we sit down with sleep expert Bailey Watkins to have a real, refreshing conversation about what sleep training actually is and what it’s not. We break down common misconceptions, the pressure moms often feel, and how to approach your child’s sleep in a way that feels aligned, gentle, and sustainable for your family. If you’ve ever felt torn, confused, or even judged when it comes to sleep training, this episode will feel like a deep exhale.

Connect with Bailey Here! https://sleepwiseconsulting.com/consultants/bailey-watkins/

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

We're back. It's your mom friends. I'm Chrissy. And I'm Jess. And on today's episode, we are talking about sleep training and how it can feel overwhelming, emotional, and honestly a little intimidating. But what if everything you thought about it wasn't the full picture? In this episode, we sit down with sleep expert Bailey Watkins to have a real refreshing conversation about what sleep training actually is and what it's not. We break down common misconceptions, the pressure moms often feel, and how to approach your child's sleep in a way that feels aligned, gentle, and sustainable for your family. If you've ever felt torn, confused, or even judged when it comes to sleep training, this episode will feel like a deep exhale. And I'd like to know that Bailey found us by typing in ChatGPT to come up with mom podcast. And we came up, we had 26 Instagram followers. We have 18 episodes, and we I would like to say we have over 500 downloads. But like how crazy. Somebody, some of some one of our listeners needs you and needs to hear this, and you were connected to us for a reason. So thank you for finding us. And would you introduce yourself to us? Tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do, how you got into this sleep consultant world.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Yeah, absolutely. So hi, I'm Bailey. I am a sleep consultant by night, by day. I'm an occupational therapist, both within the kids' pediatric world. I've been an OT for 10 years this fall. And through that career, I felt like I had a gap in my learning. Um, and I felt like I wasn't able to help families to my fullest capacity when it was came to sleep. And so I sought out becoming a sleep consultant. I had been following sleep-wise consulting since before I became an OT. I knew a speech language pathologist that was in their company when I was a therapy tech. And I just kind of followed them almost from their conception because they are now 12 years old. There are 60 plus consultants across the United States, and I'm one of them. And it's really cool. It's very full circle. And it's just been such a joy to one, learn something new, and then two, serve families. I've already served 15 families in my short stint of becoming a sleep consultant, and I have loved it. It's been really rewarding and also challenging. That's awesome. Well, thank you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

So when you say you serve, tell us how you're serving families. What are you doing with them?

SPEAKER_01 2:56

So I'm helping them sleep train their kids. We are certified as pediatric sleep consultants from birth to seven years of age. And so, really, like you might think, how do you sleep train someone from birth? And that is something really special through Sleepwise because it is like sleep coaching. I kind of slow it down a little bit. And you work with a family for 12 weeks. You have weekly phone calls with them, and you are slowly just building on that foundational sleep and helping them get to a point where they are 12 weeks of age and 12 pounds per the AAP, and they're sleeping through the night. And it's magical. I've had two prenatal clients so far, and it's just amazing. It's very special. And then you get into your kind of classic sleep training kids where 12 weeks to 18 months is a two-week program, and that's where we sleep train those 12 weeks to 18 months kiddos. We have follow-up calls, we have daily emails. I'm there virtually electronically for these families. There is an option to have me come into the home to kind of coach you in person, but honestly, I can do everything from my phone, whether it's texting or a phone call, or I FaceTimed a family while I was watching their baby monitor on night one. From there, from 18 months to about seven years, is our toddler and school age program. And that runs about three weeks because they've got more opinions. They're a little bit more independent and they need a little bit extra coaching, training, and so that consistency really builds on there.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

So you're really with them at bedtime. Sorry, Chess. I'm just suffering by those. Yeah. So you're you're with them during their bedtime routines.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

Yes. So the packages range on level of support. Some have no support at bedtime, and then some have support multiple nights of bedtime. My most consistent one is where you have bedtime texting support through night one, because that's typically the hardest. Like just getting started, putting your child down to sleep, and I'm there with you through them falling asleep. And that could take anywhere from eight minutes to an hour and a half. I mean, but I'm gonna be with you regardless. I have a question.

SPEAKER_02 5:17

What do you see as the biggest struggle or the biggest cause for struggle when it comes to parents and getting their kids into a good sleep routine? That's a great question.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

My first thought goes to crying. There's such a fear around crying, there's such a, I don't know, stigma.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

Like in the guilt when it comes to their kids crying.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

So that is a lot. Sometimes crying will inhibit someone from wanting to sleep train their kids and like have them shy away from ever creating that independent sleep skill. And then sometimes that crying will stop them from having follow-through through a program. Like they've paid the money and they like just can't handle the crying. But as an OT, I know that crying is part of communication, it's part of regulation, it's an outlet. As long as you're doing it in a purposeful manner and then you're responding in a loving and comfort way, like we can handle crying. Like me and the parent, like we can do this. I can coach you through this. I can give you tips on how to calm your vagus nerve. Like, I've got you.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

Yeah. And I think that's a great point because a lot of times, and and we've talked in previous podcasts about, you know, making decisions from a clear head. And when you're when your emotions are heightened, we're not making sound decisions and we're not, we're not parenting from a place of calm and knowing that our next steps are actually helping the child, not hindering them. And crying when I remember and being an overstimulated, I mean, I'm still an overstimulated mom, and my kids are 10 and 13. But I remember when they were babies and thankfully my kids were great sleepers. But in the beginning, Deegan had all kinds of allergies, and so he would cry. I instantly like I wasn't thinking clearly, I wasn't making decisions. I would, you know, do anything I could possibly do just to get him to stop crying. But the goal is not just to get him to stop crying, the goal is to get him to be able to sleep on his own or be able to, you know, manage emotion, things like that. And so um, I think it's great to hear from you the the understanding that crying isn't a bad thing. Absolutely. And we can manage it.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Yeah. You can respond in a loving and comfort way where the crying can be productful.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

And that goes for any age, right? Like, even up at I mean, you go to like eight, right? So if your kid is throwing a tantrum at eight and is like that's not a bad thing either. No, no, it's not just newborn crying, like it's like even kids that are older.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

Yes, and even from like my OT perspective, like I had a nine-year-old that was crying through transitions, no diagnoses, no rhyme or reason, just that he was unregulated and he needed help to either co-regulate with his parents or to find specific opportunities to regulate his emotions to have a better response. Because he was just kind of in that fight or flight.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

Well, the co-regulation piece is that what you know that's a pick it out. They need to learn how to regulate, but they won't be able to do that by themselves until they can co-regulate and being able to do that as a parent when you're regulated as opposed to dysregulated. You can't regulate a dysregulated kid if you're dysregulated yourself. Really working on yourself first is important. I I'm curious, do you work with any co-sleeping? Like do you encourage that? Do you not encourage it? How do you transition from co-sleeping to not co-sleeping? Like all the things.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

Great question. It's becoming more common and more talked about with the, and I'm using air quotes like safe sleep, co-sleeping levels, but per the AAP, I am certified through them, and I cannot condone co-sleeping because it is not safe per the AAP. And so really I am first and foremost like teaching like safe sleep without co-sleeping. And I've had infants that come to me and their parents are like, I need them out of my bed, it's disrupting my marriage, I'm not getting fitful sleep, they're nursing on demand, they're not getting sleep, they're not learning these skills. Like, please help. And so I you just kind of do a cold turkey, which sounds real scary. But when I'm with you on that night one and through those days ahead, like that cold turkey turns less scary because I am supporting you. Like, you hire me and I'm gonna help you get your kiddo into their crib. So the older kids who I kind of work with them and figure out like, what is the driver? Are they scared of the dark? Are they having nightmares? Are they just wanting to be with their parents? What is the root cause of that? And then empowering them that they can stay in their bed throughout the night and not go to their parents' bed. And there's different tips and tricks like reward charts or a diary to write down your fears or your dreams or your thoughts. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:28

Okay, so that was my question because I actually just read on Facebook, somebody that I know, just scrolling through the timeline, was like, how do I get my 10-year-old, eight-year-old out of my bed? And so I give, you know, any parent that's coming to you with an infant saying I need him out of my bed, I give them so much credit because I feel like, and you could tell me if I'm wrong, is it easier to get an infant out of your bed than it is a nine or 10-year-old? I think so because they can't walk. Right, their own little personalities, yeah. Um but I love how you said empower them and journal, like essentially journaling, like teaching kids from a young age to be able to write down their thoughts and and understand their thoughts. I talk with my kids all the time, like your feelings aren't facts. So just because you feel like doesn't mean that that's actual. So let's let's look at fact. Let's look at truth. And so getting kids to understand that from a young age, I think that's an incredible practice to be starting with them. Because a lot of times I think parents sometimes parent out of frustration, right? They get tired, they get annoyed. They're now there's I if my kids slept with me, I'd never sleep. I hate it. Like if Briley's sick and she wants to climb in bed with me, I know I'm not sleeping and I require a lot of sleep. So I could never do it just based off of I know I'm a better person when I sleep. I'm a better mom. So I need my sleep. But I think that it just parents tend to parent from E. And like, and that's where this the anger, frustration, overstimulation, burnout, and so it becomes like a negative thing. Like you've got to sleep in your own bed, you have to stay there. You you're a big kid now, you can't, you know, like you're not a baby anymore. And so shifting that perspective from like this is something you have to do to this is something you can do. I think the saying that is really cool. And it just like the light bulb went off when you said it.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

I think the opposite can be true though, too, is because you're parenting out of exhaustion and frustration, it's not worth the battle. So you just let them know. So there's the other, it's you know, it it's both sides of the spectrum.

SPEAKER_02 12:30

Well, I I think that you're probably right more than the opposite. I think parents probably tend to give in or to just say, okay, because it's just not worth it.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

Yeah. You know, that that saying, pick your battles. And I would say, as a parent who does like her sleep and does not like to share a bed with anybody, my battle was always sleep. I would always pick that battle, but I wouldn't have the food battle. Like that's a battle they don't have. So, you know, everybody has their own choices. So, what are some of your biggest tips for parents who are going through this? Would you say, let's start with babies. And you want to put them in their bed, but they have the guilt, they worry about them. What about SIDS? What about all the things that you know they worry about? What are some of the tips that or tricks that you give them to help them through that?

SPEAKER_01 13:15

One that is across the lifespan is bedtime routine. I think that is like my biggest positive, my biggest educator is that bedtime routine. For your infants, it's moving the feed first away from bedtime. And so you're combating against that drowsiness and you're building those independent sleep skills. For your older kids, you're decreasing blue light exposure, whether it's phone, tablet, TVs, like you're really like just kind of thinking about them holistically throughout the day, but you're instilling this bedtime routine where they're getting a bath, they're getting calmness. But sometimes bedtime routines can need an obstacle course or like an outlet. And so where that fits in with the bedtime routine is just super impactful. That is one of my biggest tips to give to families, to parents, to caregivers. Like, get something consistent and from the get-go, I'll do it with my infants, my newborns, starting at about eight weeks. Like, you start a routine. Like if it's a mock bath, go from there, read a book. Yes, your eight-week old might not be able to see that far or understand, but like you're setting the precedence and you're setting that routine.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

But for somebody who has a seven, eight, 10-year-old, that's something that is reversible. Like, if they haven't started, there's no wrong time to implement a bedtime routine.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

Oh, correct. Any time. Like once you identify that like you don't have a bedtime routine, or there's no expectation for the body of like, oh, this is windown time, start it then. Start it now. From an OT perspective, it's just as important from my sleep brain perspective as well.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

And do you find, and this is my social worker brain kind of coming out, but do you find like visual reminders of routines hanging up for kids and parents? So if you like do step by step by step of your nighttime routine, first we have a snack, then we brush our teeth, and then we read a book, and then we whatever, and you have visuals of each step. Do you think that's helpful?

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Yes, absolutely. And within our toddler package, that 18 months and up, we provide bedtime routine visuals of the steps and a sticker chart reward. And so you're working towards, and I would use that for my six-year-olds that need that self-motivation of like, I'm working towards this, I'm going to achieve this, and it's gonna be celebrated because I was able to empower myself and do this on my own and be independent. But visuals give kids something else, another media to hear the same thing, and it helps them recognize expectations because you can talk all day long, and sometimes parents will talk and their kids aren't really like hearing them. They might be listening, but are they really internalizing it? And so some kids need that visual to take in that information. So absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

My I'm an ADHD mom, my oldest is 13, and he was. I finally went and had him diagnosed when he was in like third grade, and that's a game changer for him still now. And it's not it's a focus thing. Like he is able to go from one task to the next if he knows what that task is. If I tell him, okay, I want you to go upstairs, get your pajamas on, brush your teeth, get your book out, right? He's so stuck on that first one, he has no idea what I said those next three tasks. And so then it turns into like an aggravation thing. You know, he'll be like wandering around upstairs. I'm like, dude, what are you doing? He's like, Well, I got my jammies on. I'm like, Well, did you get like what about the next step? He's like, What are you talking about? Because he can only focus on one thing at a time. So I still use he uses charts and timers. He's 13. And I said, I don't care if you're 25 using charts and timers. If you know that you work best in that way, then it's a tool. And so I think I didn't know that, right? Before I had him wet and was like, okay, he's not just a little boy who, you know, isn't paying attention or doesn't care or is just, you know, crazy wild. Like there's literally something that, and I can help him. And this is an easy way for him to have a bedtime chart to be, okay, this is what's next. And he thrives when I do that. And so I didn't know though. And I think that's one of the stigmas is like asking for help. Like, do I need a sleep consultant? Like, if you're struggling, yes, like it's okay as a mom to be like, I don't know what I'm doing. I just know that what what's currently going on is not working and I need help. And like, there's people like Bailey who have committed their life to being supporting moms and parents and families and children ultimately, because this is this is life lessons that these kids are ultimately there. And if we can teach them and help them to get better sleep and and have better routines, then everybody's winning. And it it's not, I think we struggle, and Chrissy and I talk about this a lot. Like we struggle with the control piece. You know, moms feel like they should just know what to do because now we're moms, and that's just not true.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Oh, absolutely. That's very tricky.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

Yeah, and I think you know, brains are pattern seeking. So when we can put things in front of them that helps with that repetition, repetition, repetition, it will ingrain and I'll help them and it'll help us, it'll help them go to school and learn better the next day. Like it's so important. So if you like for the listeners, if they have babies starting now with the routines, as you said, or if they're school age, it's never too late. And do you tell them, Bailey, it gets worse before it gets better? You will have about three to five nights of I don't know, I don't want to swear by H E L L. Right, like you will, it'll get harder before it gets better. And if you can go through the hard, it will get better. Do you ever have those conversations with people? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

I try to set the expectation of like night one is going to be hard. It's going to be so different for your baby, for your child. But that is why I am walking the walk with you. Uh, and you hit the nail on the head, Chrissy. Like three to five days, that's where I expect to see change. That is the time frame that I coach all of my families through. Like, if we're gonna tweak something, we want to see positive change within three to five days. So that means there might be three rough days where it's evening out. But if you stay consistent and you stick with me and you stick with your child, like it's going to pay off.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

Yeah. And so planning around that, right? If you're off for the weekend, let's do the hard days on the weekend, or if your kids are in school, let's wait for a school vacation to start this training. Like, let's be thoughtful about it. Let's set ourselves up for success because it's going to be hard. So let's do a little bit of planning around it to make sure that we can get through the hard, right? I think that's important.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

Yes. And then know that like you don't have to stay seven days in the hard or two weeks in the hard and just be syncing. Like, I want if you're doing it right and you're treating the situation holistically, like you should see positive change within three to five days. And if you don't, reach out, like ask a friend, ask me. Let's figure this out together and see what tweaks need to be made. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

I I wrote down trust the process because I feel like, you know, we struggle with when we come up to a roadblock or we come up to, you know, that first sign of adversity or struggle, and it's like, oh, we must be doing something wrong. So then we're gonna go scour the internet and find the next thing that we're gonna try because at the first sight of hard, we must be, you know, we didn't pick the right thing to do. And so I'm gonna try something else or I'm gonna revert back to my old ways. But ultimately, really trusting the process and knowing that hard doesn't mean bad. You've made a choice that you know ultimately, once we get to the other side, it can be a beautiful situation. And the then we're learning and growing because of it. And that's a good thing. And so, you know, just trusting you, trusting the process and and knowing, being confident in the decision you made. I want my kids to have better sleep routines, better evening routines. And even if it's hard, I'm going to stick with it. Yeah, absolutely. Because our behavior models what our kids ultimately are watching.

SPEAKER_00 21:36

Absolutely. And I do believe too, and I think we've talked about this before, and you probably know this, Bailey, from your work, but it takes over 2,000 times to practice a skill before it becomes habit. 2,000 times. So, like, how many times how many times do I have to tell you to pick up your clothes and put them in the hamper? Over 2,000 times. Right? That's just an example. But So the same holds true for us too. So we need to like understand that process. It's not going to be easy overnight. It's going to be hard. And it will get better. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

I think that this is something that I I like I said, I literally was scrolling Facebook and I was like, I'm going to send her the link to this episode. Because a lot of people do, you know, and it it becomes that just it just becomes a habit. It becomes routine. You know, the kids are in their bed. It's just, it's a part of their life. And ultimately, then you have school age kids that you're trying to get out of your beds. And you know, it it is a difficult process, but it's it's not impossible. And I think it's great, it's so refreshing hearing you chat. Like you're gonna have a few, a couple of hard days, you know, and but ultimately it is something that is achievable. You just have to be in the right mindset to be able to, okay, and even asking for help. That's I'm an advocate. I my life didn't change until I asked for help, until I, until I surrounded myself with people who knew more than I did. And ultimately, then I could learn from them, grow from them, really take their perspective and be like, oh, okay, this is what I need to do. And so I think that it's again, it was just that pride thing. It was that control piece like, I'm a mom, I should know what I'm doing. But I didn't. And it really led me to a place where I was burnt out, overwhelmed, frustrated, not the mom that I wanted to be. And it took me being like, I need help. I need to ask for help. And there's nothing wrong with that.

SPEAKER_01 23:29

Absolutely. For sure.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

They don't come with the handbook. Yeah. I mean, I wish they did, but they don't, and then even if you have more than one and no two children on the same, yeah. So you get a two very different temperaments, very different personalities, right? So asking for help is really important. I do have a quick question about uh cell phones in the bedroom. So, like, I you know, you you only you work up to age eight, right? And there might be some kiddos that age that have a cell phone. There might, you know, that world we live in.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

Do you coach or talk or educate about cell phones in the room, in the bedroom? Because I know a lot of people say, like, I need it for my alarm clock, I need it for this, I need it for that. And so I have my opinion, which I'm gonna hold off until I hear from you. What do you do you ever have that conversation with people?

SPEAKER_01 24:18

I've had it once, and I would say, like, if you can keep a cell phone out of the bedroom, it will help your brain. It will help your brain calm down, it will help your blue light. Yes, you could wear glasses, you could change your settings on your phone, you could put all these band-aids, but really, like, if you cannot doom scroll or, you know, have those conversations before going to bed, it's better for your brain, it's better for your development, it's better for your sleep. And there's definitely studies behind that blue light inhibiting your sleep.

SPEAKER_00 24:48

And the same is true for parents. And I know you're a sleep specialist for children, however, you know, you know, I think oftentimes that's our time where we do doom scroll. We lay in bed and we scroll until we fall asleep, but your brain is still actively going when you're trying to go to sleep, so you don't really get the restful sleep that you need. I have how is she 14? I always say she's close to 15. 14, she has a cell phone, but it has to stay in the living room at night. I don't allow her to bring it up into the bedroom. And she tried the whole I need it for an alarm clock, and it's I could buy you an alarm clock from all. You know, we settled on Alexa. It just wakes her up in the morning with the weather, but she doesn't have her phone in there, and so I truly believe you become addicted to it. You don't even realize that you're doing it, and you lose all control and you're just on it all the time, and then you think you need stuff all the time, right? It's the microwave society that we talk about often. It's like we need things right away. And so, if you never turn your brain off from that, you never truly get the stuff you need for your body to rejuvenate to do the things you need to do the next day.

unknown 25:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:56

Well, that's like compounding terrible habits. Like if you have a child who has a phone in their room, they're going to be a teenager with a phone in the room, they're gonna be an adult with their phone, and and then you're going to, you know, at some point have to try and deconstruct these pieces that can be just as difficult as trying to get a kid out of your bed. Like now is trying to take the phone away. And that's a whole nother piece because I agree with you. Like, it is an addiction. It is that like I need this information right now. I need to know what's going on right now. I need to be included. I need to, if I don't text back, you know, whatever. It is, it does become a very and kids have no control over that. I mean, you guys could speak to more than I can about the whole brain composition, but like their brains, like they they're not able to regulate their emotions, then you throw this piece into it and it just makes it 10 times worse. And so if you can, you know, and if it if if any listeners have kids, you know, again, this is a judgment-free zone, you have to do what's best for you. But if the goal is to help them create better sleep routines, better night routines, better sleep habits that they can then carry with them, because as a parent, like our goal is to have kids who can then go off and be functioning healthy adults, right? Not send them off and be like, okay, now you get to figure out and unpair all the things that I did on your own. I'd love for my kids to leave the house. Actually, I have to tell you this. My daughter, I've noticed for like the last month, makes her bed every morning. Like before she'll even leave for school, before anything, her bed is made. And so I said something to her the other day. I was like, hey, B, like I I think it's awesome that you make your bed every morning. She says, I make it because you make yours. And I was like, Oh, you know, like I've never said anything to my kids that they have to make theirs. It just makes me feel good making in the morning. And she noticed and she says, It makes me feel good too. And I was like, that's what I want her to take in adulthood, you know, like just a little thing that makes her feel good in the morning. If we can do those things, cell phones, you know, that kind of stuff, sleep habits, it really is super important. I love that. So if listeners wanted to connect with you or find you, like what are some of the best ways? I mean, you found us on Instagram, so we know you're on Instagram, and well, Chrissy's really good about like tagging stuff and show notes and whatnot. So we'll make sure that we tag your website, put all that kind of stuff in. But will you share with us where they can find you?

SPEAKER_01 28:19

Yes. So my Instagram handle is at sleepwise underscore Bailey. And you are welcome to send me a DM. There is a scheduling link. There is a free schedule generator. Like if you're like, hey, I don't need any help, but I would really just love to check my kiddo's sleep schedule. Within my bio, there's a free schedule generator that you can go through and find out matching to your kids' age. Sleepwiseconsulting.com is also like our main website page, and it has every consultant's bio. If you wanted to find someone close to you or someone that like fit your learning or your teaching style, there's tons of us out there. Awesome.

SPEAKER_02 29:02

I have a question on the schedule generator before we close this out. That sleepwise do they follow a certain standard, or is it something they came up with themselves? Because I know like I've I've actually sought out, I'm always the people think I'm crazy. My kids went to bed at 7:30 up until we moved out here, which was eight months ago. He's thir he was 12. And but my kids require a lot of sleep, and I know this about them. And so I just was like, they don't fight me on it, so I'm running with it. Now I definitely see a little bit of a shift, but they only go to school four days a week out here. So I just feel like life in general feels different, a lot slower. The mornings aren't rushed like they used to be. And so I do let them stay up till about 8:30. Uh, but I know that I used to like Google it out and be like, no, like my kids are not, it's not crazy to me. Like the kids are supposed to be getting nine, 10, like 10 hours of sleep or so. Is that has is this something you guys constructed, or do you do you follow some kind of certain, you know, regulation?

SPEAKER_01 30:02

I should know this, but I can't give you a confident answer. Okay. I do know that sleep-wise is research backed, and we follow like kids should get 10 to 12 hours of restorative sleep. Like, we know that is the range, but like your kids, there are some kids that need more sleep than others. They have higher sleep needs, and some kids have lower sleep needs. And so I think our schedule generator has like a sample schedule of waking up at 7 a.m. to start your day, and then goes through the schedule of like naps and bedtime, and it has the range of the wake window. And so, again, that range of the wake window could be fluctuating between a higher sleep needs kit or a lower sleep key kit. It's one of the five basic essential needs to be alive, like it's with food, like sleep is so important.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

Interesting, interesting. Well, thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. Absolutely. Finding us and and coming on, and I think this was a great conversation to have. I think that a lot of parents can use this. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

Absolutely awesome.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

Well, thanks for hanging out with us on Mom Fuel and Mindset. If today's conversation spoke to you, take it as your reminder that happy moms don't come from doing more, they come from choosing themselves and owning their growth.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

And if you loved this episode, please be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with another mom who needs a little fuel and a mindset shift today.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

Until next time, keep showing up for yourself, keep growing forward, and remember happy moms own their growth. See you soon.