Momfuel & Mindset - SEASON 2: Episode 6 - Independent Play: Raising Confident Kids

In this episode we chat with Kari Castro is a former teacher, toddler mom, and founder of EduPlay, a platform helping overwhelmed moms build calmer homes through independent play and screen-free connection. After spending over a decade in the classroom, Kari saw firsthand what happens when children enter school without foundational skills like problem solving, focus, creativity, and resilience. That experience sparked her passion for helping parents build those skills early through everyday play and connection.

Through her content, courses, and honest conversations online, Kari helps moms step away from the pressure to constantly entertain, overstimulate, and “do it all,” while raising capable, confident children who can play independently and thrive without relying on screens.

Her approach combines teacher expertise with real-life motherhood, giving parents practical tools that actually work in busy homes without adding more overwhelm to their plate. Want to connect with Kari and learn more about her work?
Be sure to check out the show notes for links to her website, Instagram, and a special discount code for her independent play course. If today's conversation resonated with you, you won't want to miss the extra resources she's sharing with our listeners!


Instagram: @eduplay.together
Website: eduplaytogether.com

Use code MOMFUEL for 50% off Kari’s independent play course.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

We're back. It's your mom friends. I'm Chrissy. And I'm Jess. In this episode, we are chatting with Carrie Castro, a former teacher, toddler, mom, and founder of EduPlay, a platform helping overwhelmed moms build calmer homes through independent play and screen-free connection. After spending over a decade in the classroom, Carrie saw firsthand what happens when children enter school without foundational skills like problem solving, focus, creativity, and resilience. That experience sparked her passion for helping parents build those skills through everyday play and connection. Through her content courses and honest conversations online, Carrie helps mom step away from the pressure to constantly entertain, overstimulate, and do it all while raising capable, confident children who can play independently and thrive without relying on screens. I think I'm excited for this one because this is like every mom's struggle. This is, and in I, in the world that we live in today, in this like instant gratification, constantly feeling like we need to Chrissy and I talk all the time about like we just put out this week's episode, the pressures of summer, and to like pack the schedule and to like make sure we make this magical summer, you know, childhood memory for our kids. But that just adds so much stress and so much, like it's not even fun. Like, how many times have we done things with our kids? It's not even fun because it's like more on us, more on us. What do we need to do to be able to get these kids and us be okay with our kids playing independently? Because is it more about us than it is even about the kids? So welcome, Carrie. Thank you for being here. And what are your thoughts on this?

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Well, first, I'm really excited to be here. Thanks for having me. This is something I'm truly passionate about. I spent 14 years in the classroom before becoming a mom. And I honestly thought that being in a classroom with 35 kids all day, like I had motherhood in the bag. I knew I was I was gonna be great. And it didn't happen that way. Like, motherhood has a way of really humbling us. And like so many moms, I found myself overwhelmed trying to do it all and live up to this like good moms do more culture that we're living in. And that journey eventually led me to independent play and creating edu play, where now, like you said, I help moms, parents create calmer days with less screen reliance in a little bit more breathing room. And my hope is that through this, I can also show moms that you don't need to feel guilty about taking a break. And honestly, when you do take a break, you tend to show up in ways that you couldn't before because you're not overstimulated, you're not running on empty, and you're taking care of yourself, which is really important. And I also love showing our daughter that, you know, that you are a priority as a parent. And if you want to show up as your best self, you have to take that break.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

I love this because not only are you improving your, yeah, like your own relationship with yourself, your relationship with your kids, but the relationships they develop at school because when they have these skills and they go to school, they can function more effectively. And I'm a school social worker in elementary school, so I see it too. Like I think these skills that you're teaching moms and teaching kids are transferable in so many different ways and can have such a huge impact on life, even beyond the four walls of your home.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

Well, and that's a lot of what I saw in the classroom. I taught third through fifth grade mainly, and what was apparent every year, and honestly, it got through my time, I could see this transition to it getting clear that kids were afraid to make mistakes. They didn't have that growth mindset, they didn't have that trust in themselves that I am capable and I hold all the skills that I need to be successful. And they didn't want to take chances, think outside the box. It was like pulling teeth sometimes to just get their opinion. And then it led to, you know, problem solving wasn't there, the focus wasn't there. Some kids would even ask to take, we all had one-to-one devices. I went through that transition. And they would ask to take their laptops outside to recess. And it was like, absolutely not. You're gonna go play, you're going to make friends, and it's important that you move your body and you're you're letting your brain be free to wander however it wants rather than sit on a screen at recess. And when I thought, you know, when we had our own daughter, Presley, I thought back to my school days, and it was like so clear that those habits start at home when our kids are youngest. But we can't expect moms to just do it all without giving them a solution, without giving them strategies to take care of themselves and, you know, be able to function. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

I think that we talk a lot about, you know, when we were in the thick of it, we write each Chrissy and I both have our own stories of, you know, there were periods of our life where we were just like in it. And Chrissy talks a lot about, you know, the thought of doing one more thing is it just wasn't, it's not a, it's not even a possibility. And I talk a lot about I we have to be the ones to break the cycle. When we know better, we can do better. We say this every episode. And so when we can figure out ways to what's working, what's not working, why am I running on E? Why am I overstimulated? Why am I overreactive? What are the things that are in my control? A lot of times we like to, it's uncomfortable to take responsibility and really change what it is that's not working. But when we understand that our actions, our habits speak louder than words, and what are they teaching our kids? It wasn't until my kids were, Deegan was probably nine, eight or nine, when I realized like I'm creating a just mini version of myself and over-reactive and over-stimulated. Like if something doesn't go right, he's upset. He's like, I'm like, his actions are literally just he's reciprocating how I respond. Yeah. And how horrible, but I'm he's literally just learning from my actions, not from my words. Because I'm telling him to react one way and I'm reacting a different way. And so I can't be a good because that's where like the screen time stuff comes in. It's like just go go play your video games, go do this, go on your title, because it's like five minutes of peace, which turns into an hour of peace where it's like, okay, I'm not, uh it's not mom, it's not me, it's not, you know, the overstimulation is real. And I think that when moms are in the thick of it, the thought of a screen being a help is more like it the benefits outweigh the well, I know it's probably not good for them, but I don't think it's a survival tool. It's a survival tool, absolutely. Yeah. So how do we, so you've created this eduplay. So how do we get out of this survival and allow in instead of relying on a screen? Because moms could still be in the thick of it, but like how do we how do we go from relying on a screen as a survival tool to relying on independent play as a survival tool?

SPEAKER_02 7:11

Yeah, so I have actually a couple freebies that I give. So at the end, when you guys put my Instagram in there, people can go in there, send me a DM. I will share all my resources. One of them I have is specifically for like a screen reset. If your kids are deep into screens and you're like, I can't take that away because I couldn't function. One, that is very normal. And I don't ever want to shame a mom for trying to survive because it's like your gas mask in a in a plane. You have to survive first to make your family function. Um, but there are strategies to make screens take up less space. So we are not 100% screen-free just because I think that it's it's unrealistic for a lot of moms, especially if you're a work-from-home mom, which I am, but we use them very strategically and we use them in a routine. And the routine has been a lifesaver for us. She knows we wake up, we eat breakfast together, and we're connecting. My cell phone is on a counter. I am not on it. I don't want to model that for her. And I want her to really feel like my mom is invested in me right now. And that doesn't have to be an hour. It could literally be 10 minutes while we're eating breakfast, talking about the day, what's coming up. And then we move into, okay, Presley, you know, mom is gonna go do this. This is your independent play chunk, your first one for the day. And sometimes that can last 10 minutes, and sometimes it can last an hour. We have to be, I guess, like go with the flow on that one because just like us, we have days that aren't great, and so do our children. So then after she does her first independent play chunk, I come back, I connect with her. Maybe we'll do some tours together, I'll play with her a little bit. And then we do another round of independent play. And this is mom's work time. And she knows mom is working right now, I am playing. It's not that mom is ignoring me. If I need her, she's right there and she will respond to me. But she's got things she needs to do. And we talk a lot about like this is mom's responsibility. Dad leaves the house to work. So it's the same thing. I just happen to be here with you, and this is life. And one day you will probably have a job as well, and you have to do your job. And then she gets about 30 minutes before nap time. She never asks for the screen before that. She did in the beginning, of course, but that is just what the routine is. And we only choose like low stimulation TV shows. She really likes trash truck. She loves, let's see, there's stinky and dirty, like the old school cartoons that we used to watch, like Peter Rabbit, things like that, that are not fast. They're not flashy, they're calming. And in my one of my free resources, I have a list of all of our favorite low-stem shows and what network you can find them on as well. And then also, I just think if you're going to let your child watch TV, it's something where you're engaged with them. It's not a babysitting tool where it's like I turn the TV on and I walk away. You don't really know what they're watching at that point, like especially on YouTube. YouTube is just scary. It can change to anything. But we have a lot of conversations about what's going on in the TV. I try to relate it back to like what's happening in our life. How can we relate to this and kind of use it more as like a comprehension tool and a time for us both to just sit down and relax? And yeah. So a lot of tools that will help screens not take up your entire day and leave room for other things. But you don't have to cut them out completely. If you choose to, that's great. But uh just ways to make them take up less space.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

I can you speak to sometimes I think that we we're in the we live in the here and now because that's what when we're struggling or we're overwhelmed and we're in survival mode, we're not thinking five years down the road, 10 years down the road. We're just making it through day to day. And so for the moms who who are, you know, struggling, who are relying on the screens and stuff, what as I mean, Chrissy can speak to this too, but what benefits? Because sometimes I think that we need to know what the what good is coming from eliminating the screens. Because it's going to, it's going to be work to get kids off of screens who rely on them. What are the benefit factors and what are the changes that you see? And what is going to make it worth it for these parents to say, okay, we really do. I know one thing you said that I circle and we talk a ton about is routines. Getting kids on routines is essential. They need them, they thrive in them. I any parent or kid can say that that's not true, and I'll argue with them till they get kids. Yes. So I love the routine, but I just I would love to know your perspective on like what you have seen change with the families that you've worked with, with your own daughter, like the the benefits that have come from removing the screens.

SPEAKER_02 12:00

Right. So screens in general, and I actually just had this conversation, like like a little debate, you know, they asked, why is it okay to have music on in the background while your child plays and you don't think it's the same for screens? And I was like, that's a really great question that a lot of parents are like, well, that's the same thing. And we listen to music in the background all the time. Difference is screens are so stimulating that even when your child isn't looking at the screen, even if they are playing, they are still taking in what's happening. They're trying to follow a storyline. It's like watching having a TV on when you sleep. You know, there's been studies of brain activity, even if you're not, you're asleep, you think you're sleeping, but your brain is still taking in that information and it's stimulating. You know, you're not getting all that like REM sleep that they say you need. And it's the same as just background. So cutting off TVs, even if you think your child is not watching it, reduces overstimulation. It reduces a lot of the tantrums that you're going to see. It's going to honestly help their sleep. And then when you aren't on screens, there is going to be that time that we have to fill. And that's where independent play comes in. So it's kind of also like a trade-off. Rather than getting all these negative side effects of screens, now my child has the opportunity to build problem solving, focus, attention, imagination, like so many things. And that self-reliance, that independence is really important. One of the main things that families that I work with see is that over time, because their child has developed those independent play skills, which lead to independence, things around the house, like, hey, can you go get your shoes? You want water, get a cup out, get water. They start doing those things on their own because they have that feeling of I can do it. I am capable of doing these things. And so that takes those little tasks off of mom's plates. And then when they are independently playing, you can take a break. You can catch up on your to-do list, you know, the endless to-do list that we all have, whether it's laundry, dishes, you're a work-from-home mom, or you just want to relax. Like you don't have to feel guilty about saying, I need a break right now. I'm going to sit over here and read a book, or I'm going to drink my coffee in silence. And silence is another thing. You get a lot less stimulation as a mom, not just for your child, but for you. You aren't constantly taking in, you know, toys everywhere, the noise of the TV, mom, mom, mom, they're pulling on you. They want to be involved in what you're doing. It creates a lot more space in your day and you can regulate yourself as a mom. But the most important, maybe not the most important, but for me, the what I love hearing and like the biggest compliment is when moms say, I feel like I'm showing up as the mom I thought I would show up as because I'm not overstimulated. So I can feed back into my children. And that is just the ultimate goal for you to feel relaxed and calm, like I got this, and I can still be this mom that isn't snapping at my kids because I'm overstimulated. So there's so many things that you're going to get through independent play, but you will have to work towards it. It's a skill, especially these days. And kids can learn skills. So every kid can do this. We just have to teach them. Well, we can't teach what we don't have.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

Yeah. So I mean, we have to be aware of our ability and what we're modeling, and then being able to teach it to our kids. And then also understanding that I say this all the time, I feel like a broken record. But in order for something to become a habit, we have to do it over and over and over again. Like over 2,000 times that you have to practice something before it becomes a habit. That's true for ourselves and for our kids. So at the thought of implementing less green time, more independent play, I mean, that might make you feel completely overwhelmed as a mom, depending on your circumstances. Are you working in the home, out of the home? Are you a single parent? Do you have a supportive spouse? All the things that go into that. And do you have the physical and emotional capacity to do this change and understand that 1% better every day is still progress? And so it's not like we're ripping off the band-aid and saying we're allowing screen time all the time to absolutely zero. It's like, okay, so how can we slowly integrate this new way into our family that makes sense for all of us in a way that we can start practicing? So we're not setting ourselves up for failure. And understanding that there are some times when we go to implement something new and it's just not going to happen. Old habits die hard. We're going to go back to old habits, but recognizing that, oops, that didn't go as planned. Let's try again, I think is really important too. So understanding, and I would also say, I have two thoughts here. I would also say, we talked about it last week, Jess, in our summer episode. Summer's a great time when you don't have the stress of school and routines from that school bring to implement something new. Try something new. And so as you're practicing through the summer, um, maybe it becomes more of a habit by the time school starts back, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:57

And like you said, routines. You're not, you could, but it's probably not realistic to overhaul your entire day. Pick one time during the day, every day at 10 a.m. If you're a stay-at-home mom, a work-from-home mom, or maybe it's when I get home from work so that I have a minute to myself to figure out what I'm doing for dinner, get everything going, but one time during the day, a consistent time where this is independent playtime. We're going to do this every single day. And it might start at three minutes, but I'm going to help you. We're learning how to do this. This is a new skill. And you can introduce it like that. We're going to learn how to do this. And this is just a time when you're going to play. You can create anything you want. You can, you know, pull some toys out and see what you come up with. And you start them with it. You're sitting there. And really, what's hard for a lot of us, and parents will say this to me a lot. I played as a kid all the time. Why do I need to show my child how to play? That is valid. We did play as children, but we didn't have the option to just turn on a TV whenever we wanted. We didn't have a tablet where every single one of us could be watching what we wanted. You know, if the TV was on and I didn't want to watch it, I wasn't going to sit there. I didn't have that luxury of, I'm going to go somewhere else and watch this on my tablet in my bed. So we do have to foster a love of play. And we have to show our kids like play is fun, play is useful, and play is your work. And so this is what we're going to do every day at this time. And it might last five minutes to start. It might not go well at all, but we're going to try it every single day. And eventually it's like doing reps. You know, it will build that independent play muscle. And eventually, you know, there are some days I get over an hour and a half in one session. And some days it happens, some days it doesn't. But you just gauge it off of where they're at. And I mean, they'll come up with some amazing things in time. And families will start seeing in just one week little pockets of like of time where they're getting it back. And those small wins, they're like, hey, I just got 15 minutes. I folded an entire load of laundry. And they weren't pulling at me or asking me to do anything. And then within two weeks, the families that I work with are seeing drastic changes in their homes and the feeling of their homes, how they feel like they're showing up as a mom, how their kids are reacting, like their behaviors. So it is. It's just picking a time and being consistent and building from there, starting small.

SPEAKER_01 19:21

I love how like independent play is leading to their independence growth as a person, like as an individual. It's starting now. And as they grow, it's only going to benefit them being an independent. And that's our goal, right? To raise good, capable, responsible, you know, functioning, emotionally healthy, functioning. And this is like every time you said independent play, I'm like, oh my gosh, like it's it's teaching them how to be independent, not just about what they're learning in the play, but yes, their critical thinking skills, which kids today don't have. They're right, their responsibility, their growth, they're all of that. And so something that we sometimes can take for granted is that we every single thing that we do to influence them is turning them into who they're going to be as an adult. Yeah. And so that, like when you break it down and you think by changing up, it's difficult. It's for sure difficult. And I think that the older they get, you know, it's a struggle. I implemented a summer checklist that they have to do before they can have any TV or iPad or game or whatever. And it's a lot. They may complain about it, but they'll go outside together and play basketball. And it's like, hey, that's that's fun, right? Like you guys enjoyed it. But once you did it, you liked it. They do. They do. And I find even we're only like two weeks into summer here, but they it's they don't ask. There are days because they're you know, they're 10 and 13, 11 and 13. And so they're like, you know, can I have my iPad or can I can I just check on something? And I'm like, not until your list is done, bud. Not until your list is done. You know, so I'm convinced that by the end of summer we'll be experts at this, but it's little things like that. And it's not easy. Like they do try and, you know, build try and work around it, but this is our standard. This is, and we talk about standards. Like, what is the standard for your life? What are you, what kind of expectations are you setting for yourself? And are you meeting them? What kind of expectations are we teaching our kids to set for themselves? And you know, reading for three minutes. I want them to do that. So I just I love that independent play, kind of like it like sparks something. Every time you said it, I was like, it's not even about play, it's about teaching. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:35

Giving them the opportunity. And I think it's important to have, I mean, Presley's only four. We've been doing this since she was about two when I was like, whoa, she's these behaviors are out of control. And at two, I was survival mode. We had just moved states. My husband started working before we got, before we came. We came a couple weeks later. We have a dog and a cat. It was 1,500 square feet and we didn't have a fence backyard. So the dog was always inside. And it was, it was just too much. And I was like, we need to change something. But I knew I was in survival mode. So we made some changes. You know, I went back to like what I saw in the classroom with the older kids and what do I really want for my daughter? And like you said, it's it's teaching them skills that they will use for life. We have conversations about why don't we just watch TV all day? You know, like it's self-control. It's it's we want to have passions and we want to have hobbies. So let's go develop them. Like, how much fun can you have sitting in front of a TV? And we'll try and talk about it like that. Like it might be nice to just sit down and relax for a minute, but that's not fun. You can go create fun. That's fun. And it's the way that you talk about it. And it comes back to the way you talk about toys, too. If toys are always junk and they're always something that needs to be put away, and they're always in the way and they're making this mess, and that's the way you talk about it, that's what they think about toys. And so even just small shifts like how you talk about toys and screens can start making a difference.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

For sure. And that starts that internal negative self-talk too. So if you're trying to play with your toys, but your your mom or dad or whoever is always complaining about the mess you're making or picking up after yourself, and it just becomes this overwhelming, stressful experience, it's like I caused my parents grief. I am no good, you know, I'm not good enough. I'm always in trouble. So really the way that we talk not only directly to them, but about them, about their stuff, to our significant other matters. And that's going to help them believe in themselves to be able to do what we're asking them to do. Because again, kids that are, we didn't really mention this, but kids that are on electronics at such a young age, they're addicted. Are addicted. And so, and that's how their brain is developing. And and you you talked about it, just like the instant gratification. I call it microwave society. We want things right away, and that's what social media, that's what electronics give us. Um, and it's constantly being entertained. And so, God forbid we're bored now, and then that's when we cause trouble or we are a little mischievous because we can't be bored. Well, let's practice being bored. Being bored's not a bad thing. How can we and that's sadly when we uh introduce electronics, TV, whatever to our kids at such a young age, that's what they learn. That's what their brains, how their brains develop is immediate gratification.

SPEAKER_02 24:21

Well, and it's like when they can change the channel so quickly. I don't want to watch this. Flip, flip, flip. And they're just scrolling, scrolling, scrolling. And it's especially when they're older and they're if they've grown up on a screen and then they go into schools where they are getting screens. It's I mean, we use screens in the classroom as a survival tool. You know, they put out screens, all the schools, everybody's got one-to-one technology. We're creating these kids that are going to be so great at technology and never thought about what that was going to do because it would it seemed like we are so forward thinking. But really, all it did was strip our kids of the ability to figure things out on their own, because now they just Google things, to sit with boredom, to look at what a teacher is showing them and to get excited over a book with pictures. Like if you pulled out the encyclopedia or a blue book, you don't need to watch videos of animals. Let's look at the animals in this book. They're like, no, not doing that. Yeah. And there would be kids that would just stare at me blanket, like, and I would like, how can we make this fun? Like, I'm up there trying to put on this whole circus show to make things fun for them. And they're like, no, eight years old, and you're like, how old are you? You're this should be fun. And it's just not. They don't want to do it. And it it goes so much further, like you said, beyond being a child on a screen. These are habits for life. And when we it were unintentionally, I don't think anyone is waking up in the morning and saying, I don't want to strip my child of the ability to problem solve. They're just thinking, I need a minute. Right. But we are unintentionally, unknowingly taking away these opportunities from our kids from being them the best self that they can be, from giving them the skills to be a successful adult that functions in society. And those that's important. Yeah. So you have a course, right, Carrie? I do. So I before eduplay was a thing, I taught my own daughter to independently play and had some great results. And I started sharing it on Instagram just kind of like for fun. I didn't know where it was gonna go. I had friends that were like, hey, can you help me get my kid doing this? So I would start helping them. And then we wanted to reach more people. So we developed a course that you can get online. It's nine modules, all of it's under an hour and a half. And the last module is for if you have multiple kids. So how can we mitigate the sibling competition? How can you get your children playing and not arguing? Or have strategies to just keep them a little bit separate, if you know that's easier. And then the eighth module, which I was really proud of, I threw it in. It was something that I thought of later, you know, with a partner that I had who was talking through this and she had a daughter on the spectrum. And she said, there needs to be resources for this. And when my daughter was young, I would have loved to have this support. Because if you have a child on the spectrum or with special needs, there aren't a lot of resources that you can just go to the internet and find. You have to go through a lot of hoops sometimes. And so we put in a module of how can you help your child with special needs, you know, who's on the spectrum, neurodivergent, and what how can we adjust the expectations so that they can also be successful? And so it goes through a lot of strategies, how to work with their needs, their high sensory needs, sometimes their low sensory needs, you know, to really get them being successful as well, because every child can do this if we can teach the skill. So if you don't need those two modules, you could do the whole thing in under an hour. It comes with invitations to play for from ages zero to five. So some little starter things that can get your child interested in play. It comes with a toy rotation, like a how to set up a really low-lift toy rotation. I'm not talking like a Pinterest, add more to your plate type of toy rotation. And then also email access to me. I want to be a resource for everyone. I want every mom to feel like this is something they can do and they're supported. So they can email me at any time and I will reach out. Honestly, if a mom was like, I need help, I would call them. I want this to work and I know that it can work. I think that moms need this. Moms deserve this. We all deserve to have time to feel like ourselves. And we owe it to our kids to give them this opportunity. And I want nothing more than for this to work for them because I know that it can. And so I would go to great lengths to help moms get this going in their homes. So the course they can find online. And yeah, I will be there every step of the way if they need me.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

I love it. That sounds amazing. And I know you mentioned something about a special discount for listeners.

SPEAKER_02 29:04

Yeah. So you can use code momfuel and get 50% off of the course and yeah, get started right away. Like I said, within one week, you'll start seeing those small wins and those small pockets of time. And within two weeks, you can completely transform your whole home. And like you said, it's summer, like what a great time to instill some good habits.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for being here with us today, Carrie.

SPEAKER_02 29:29

Yes, I'm, you know, thanks for having me. I think this is something that moms will love. But like you said, it's it can be trippy and it can be a little bit daunting, but just start small. Every kid can do this and you will get there.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

I think your whole goal of this podcast is to help moms create awareness. Like they're not like moms have so many feelings towards things. We keep in, we struggle to say out loud. And this is something that I'm sure moms struggle with, knowing that, hey, being in front of a screen is not my best parenting, you know, choice, but I don't feel like I have other options. And the goal is to create awareness. Like we there are resources out there to help you be the mom you want to be so that you can raise these kids in a way that you want to. And I think that, Carrie, you're gonna be a great resource for our listeners. And I just wanted to thank you for being here with us.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

Yes, again, thanks for having me. Awesome. Well, thanks for hanging out with us on Mom Feeling Mindset. If you want to connect with Carrie and learn more about her work, be sure to check out the show notes for links to her website, Instagram, and a special discount code for her independent play course. If today's conversation resonated with you, you won't want to miss the extra resources she's sharing with her listeners.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

And if you loved this episode, please be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with another mom who needs a little fuel and a mindset shift today.

SPEAKER_00 30:49

Until next time, keep showing up for yourself, keep growing forward, and remember happy moms own their growth. See you soon.