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Episode 36 | The Future of Cannabis Jobs in Minnesota with Local 49's Patrick Doran & Benjamin Mike
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What role should organized labor play in Minnesota's emerging cannabis industry?
In this episode of The Canna Connect Show, Stephen Eigenmann sits down with Patrick Doran and Benjamin Mike of Local 49 to discuss workforce development, employee protections, apprenticeship programs, labor peace agreements, and the future of cannabis employment in Minnesota.
As the state's cannabis market continues to take shape, the conversation explores how employers and workers can build sustainable businesses, develop skilled career pathways, and create opportunities that benefit both companies and employees.
Local 49 brings more than a century of experience supporting Minnesota workers, and this episode explores how that experience may translate into one of the state's newest industries. The guests also discuss craft cannabis, hemp beverages, workforce training, regulatory uncertainty, and why collaboration will be critical as the market matures.
Get in touch with Local 49
https://cannaconnectmn.com/contact
Introduction & Guest Introductions
SPEAKER_00The thoughts, views, and opinions expressed on the Canna Connect Show belong solely to the individuals and do not reflect those of Canaconnect and its affiliates, sponsors, or partners. Can a Connect does not promote or facilitate any activity that violates state or federal regulations. Everything you hear here is strictly for educational and entertainment purposes. It is not legal advice. It is not financial guidance, and it's definitely not medical direction. Seriously, don't take our word for it. Even if someone on the mic sounds like they know what they're talking about, and they're probably crazy smart too. Regardless of how legit our guests may be, you should always do your own homework, consult with your attorney, and understand the risk you're taking before you do anything when it comes to cannabis. Our intention is to keep it real. If you've got a problem with anything we've said, take us to court.
SPEAKER_03Welcome back to the Canon Connect Show. I'm your host, Steven Eigenman, and today I'm joined by two very special guests. Patrick Dorn with Local 49 and Benjamin Mike with Local 49. Guys, introduce yourself real quick for the audience.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. My name is Patrick Dorn. I'm general counsel of Local 49, IULE LOCAL 49, which is the International Union of Operating Engineers.
SPEAKER_02I'm Benjamin Mike. I'm a labor organizer with Local 49. I just recently started January of 2025 and pretty excited to be on this level to be able to help people.
SPEAKER_03Amazing. In today's show, we get into quite a bit around why the labor movement matters, as well as dig into where Local 49 can serve the greater cannabis industry in Minnesota. And we generally have a conversation around industry, both uh cannabis and non-cannabis, because we are talking about a legal industry that's fighting for progress, and local 49 brings a lot of wisdom to the industry. So really excited to sit down with you guys and appreciate you being on the show.
SPEAKER_02Thanks for having us. Appreciate the opportunity. Thanks, Steve.
SPEAKER_03Let's get into
What Is Local 49?
SPEAKER_03it.
SPEAKER_01You know, the vast majority of our membership is in a piece of equipment, but not everybody.
SPEAKER_02Uh-huh. You know, some of that equipment is not mobile, right? We're talking about stational, right? The history of IUOE, the International Operating Engineer, right? That was a steam engineer. Was a steam engine that was powering something, maybe wasn't mobile, right? So now you're in the boilers, you're into systems that maybe that are stationary. So that it's evolved. So again, in our hundred-year history, right, we'll be celebrating our 100-year history here to see it evolve from one to the next. If we're not evolving as 49, then we are not growing. And in order to keep membership and keep you know, looking out and the protection of the exploited worker, you need to evolve. You need to advance, right? That business development, those are things that we learn, right? I mean, Patrick's in-house council, you know, myself, right? This is where we think the business agents are there to enforce contracts, right? We're together, collectively, like anything that we hear good success, right? Yeah. And I would imagine most of the cannabis industry thinks like that of my time spent at, like I say, Lucky Leaf and Nikan and uh and uh down at Vegas for MJ Biz, right? Like that's what we hear is they still believe in a collective thought, right? It's real easy. Yeah, well, that's what a union is. That's what a union is. When he says CBA, it's a collective bargaining agreement. So again, holding true to the value of what a union is, not without losing sight of having to vote to evolve and business that, like I say, that business development.
SPEAKER_03Hey everybody, Steven with Canaconnect. Taking a quick minute to shout out today's sponsor, CE, that is the Center for Energy and Environment. If you're not familiar with CE, they're your one-stop shop for all lighting rebates. If you are in XL Energy Territory and you're a micro business, CEE is somebody that you need to talk to. Give Brad a call, give Tony a call, go online, one-stop shop, LED lighting rebates. They'll help take care of up to 60% of the costs associated with your grow and your build out with the lighting. Uh, really nice people, great people to work with, huge sponsors of CannaConnect, and uh give them a shout. That's CEE, Center for Energy and Environment. I mean,
Why Local 49 Is Watching Cannabis
SPEAKER_03you guys are a hundred years old this year. The Minnesota cannabis industry is coming up on three years old this year. There's an element of it's not gonna be a perfect fit for everybody right away. Correct? Some folks are filling their pre-rolls themselves, some folks are using larger machinery to fill their pre-rolls. And then there's the question of how many pre-rolls are you filling, because that will start to change over the years. That's right. And so having paid attention to the industry from the onset of legalization, local 49 finds itself in a good place to serve the Minnesota cannabis industry with the hundred years of experience and the range and size of employees that you cater to or that are members of your organization. And there's a level of entry point. I think Highway 35 LSE or the Unbound brand is the right place to be looking, given it's still in its infancy and what you're going to see from company sizes. That's right.
SPEAKER_02You know, as an organizer, as a labor organizer, as I talk to uh employees of, you know, of various fields, you know, the tour that uh they provided up at Highway 35 just recently, it wasn't the union banging on the drum saying that we need to be in here. I need to, we need to 49 needs to learn more about where they're at, where they want to go, what they need to be, what support they're gonna need. So as the industry is still evolving for in the cannabis industry,
Learning Alongside The Industry
SPEAKER_02we are learning with it, right? We've got we have time invested now, right? We've been to uh, like I say, MJ BizCon twice, right? We've invested on that time. We've invested in the lucky leaf, right? We're investing in partnership with Canon Connect. Can it connect is a big one now to be able to help push our message or promote our message that we're here and ready to listen, right? We're seeing it with the LPAs that are getting signed, right? The big push on the beverage industry. Yeah, when that LPA, that deadline hit and there was no change, no change. It's the 11th hour came, you know, Patrick came through and you know, we were able to craft something on that beverage side. So yeah, they are turning to us because I think we're look we are willing to listen. And I would push that message to again, the one owner or the guy that might have 400 employees already. What does it mean? Like, how could we listen? What do we need to learn? Where do we need to craft that?
Supporting Craft Cannabis Businesses
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and and Minnesota is seen as a smaller market in general compared to the national legalized states. We're protective of the craft industry. And that's more so what I was we talk about the craft, we talked about the craft industry, which you which you see in those products, but the but we also talk about the industry and the greater size of it. But like there's going to be a range in size of companies and understanding that you don't have to be a brewery and you don't have to be the largest cannabis company in Minnesota to have a conversation with Local 49 to understand how Local 49 is going to be set up to potentially provide you benefits.
SPEAKER_02I would agree on that. And I think uh a perfect example is the meeting some of the craft brewers, local craft brewers now, you know, from Duluth to Minneapolis, and hearing their story about that microcraft brew business is remained that. And uh we were just at the um event uh a couple weeks ago. Craft cannabis, sorry, the brewer's guild, which was awesome, right? Because what did we hear over there? We don't have a macro brewer in Minnesota. Yeah, and I think Minnesotans in general could take a lot of pride in the fact that you're not getting a quote unquote water, it's coming in from somewhere else. Those craft brews, micro or larger, yeah, but we even heard it, three million barrels. That's still not a large brewer. And that's amazing. To me, that's amazing as being a craft whole, you know, local, locally owned, locally sourced. Yeah, right. To me, I think that's pretty amazing to have that still, and that industry is just as strong. And then for the cannabis to be starting out in that at that level, right? I would highly encourage those guys to continue to hold on to that craft part of that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
Lessons From Craft Brewing
SPEAKER_03I mean, whatever small microbrewery comes to mind for you that's popped up in the last few years, compare that to Summit or Surle on the other side of the spectrum, that's all still craft. That's correct. That's correct. And so you know, this is a few interviews in today, right? We've been talking about the industry all all day with some great experts. And I'm guilty of writing off Surlee or writing off Summit as one of the big guys. But when you are dealing with the potential of federal uh ban for, I'm sorry, when you're when the breweries are looking at the potential ban of hemp beverages at the end of this year, you start to see groups band together, right? Because you start to realize we're all in this together. There aren't that many big fish in the pond. Minnesota craft beer being one, hey, we're all different sized fish, but we're we're nowhere near the giants of of national distribution, of national brands. And so beer is a good example of of what this industry could look like, cannabis could look like, but there's also the agriculture side, there's the outdoor grow, there's the uh potential for greenhouses and and vertical integration. And and I think if you guys could talk about why the labor movement matters
Why Labor Matters
SPEAKER_03and bring it back to cannabis as a new industry or a nascent industry, let's talk let's talk about the hundred-year history, but let's talk about why the labor movement matters now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think that's a good I think that's a good question, and and I think it's you could tie it directly into what we had just been talking about in terms of kind of cannabis being in essence in its infancy stages. And what that means for business and why we think the labor movement is important for the cannabis industry is because you know, when we start when we have when we have an industry like we've been talking about, that it's in its infancy stages, um, that can cause uh whether it's malicious or based on ignorance or whatever, that can cause exploitation of the workers, right? Because I think this is a situation where and and by ignorance or malicious you know, malicious, we'll put on the side, we we understand what that means. But ignorance is we just don't understand the regulations, we don't understand the rules.
Protecting Workers In New Industries
SPEAKER_01I'm sorry, in this cannabis industry, what uh Ben said about I don't want to have to shop for health insurance, I don't want to, you know, all these things. Maybe I'm starting my own company or I'm growing because now I'm in the the hemp beverage industry. And so why I think the labor movement is important is to protect the workers that are gonna enter into this industry early, right? And because the regulations, you know, I know Minnesota and the Office of Cannabis Management kind of has its own set of issues right now. And, you know, maybe those are too tight of restrictions and maybe they're gonna loosen up. And we don't know what the expectation is for that. But what we do know is that when we have when we have an industry that is new, that there is a lot of uncertainty. And the union's job, you know, first and foremost, as I talked about earlier, is to make sure that the workers that are getting into that industry are protected, that they're making a living wage, that they're that they can retire with dignity, or even if it's an entry-level position, that there's training that's available to them, that they can go and get a certification that can get them a higher wage, maybe in the same industry. Maybe they go from kind of unloading pallets to working on the boiler or running a forklift or whatever that that may be. So there's there's room for growth. You know, we're not saying that everybody needs to make, you know, a big total package in terms of of what their wage and benefits are, but you know, we want to meet these people where they are. Yeah. And we worry when the industry, maybe worry is not the right word, but we want to make sure that the employers understand what
Career Growth & Advancement
SPEAKER_01they need to do to get you know on the path, and we want to make sure that the employees are are protected.
SPEAKER_03And the reality is that the reality is because this is a fun industry to work in, because this is a a s a one of those syntax type products, right? Alcohol, tobacco, cannabis. You find people that are willing to work in this industry because they are so passionate about the product, but then they're somewhat delusional to their rights as employees. And that's that's the reality that we're dealing with. That's why wages are low in this industry, because they can get away with it. Because there's a lot of people that want to work in this industry. But I don't I'm not saying that's right. I'm just saying that's that's the human nature element of if somebody's willing to do something, maybe they don't have to be paid as much.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's a bit of a give it, it's a bit of a give and take because I think there is there is a time and a place for what I would just generally call entry-level wages. Okay. Right. And so if you got a teen businesses are in the business of making money. Yeah. And local 49 is aware of that. And we understand that not everybody's gonna make $80 an hour or whatever the number is, right? And so there is a time and a place for entry-level wages, and maybe I'll let uh Ben speak to this more, you know, on the organizing point uh side of things, but it's you know, it's about the misclassification. Is this person 1099 or are they an employee, right? And is this, you know, uh
Understanding Fair Compensation
SPEAKER_01the state of Minnesota with the big fraud case, the misclassification was $1.27 million dollars, right? The state of Minnesota cares about whether or not workers are being classified as employees, 1099 workers, are these employers, you know, again, it could be malicious, but it could be ignorant. They just don't know any better, right? And there's an education piece of this too, as we're getting in on the ground level of what this industry is gonna be. So I don't, you know, I wouldn't want an employer to look at us and say, well, they're just gonna jack up my bottom line and I'm gonna have to pay all my employees 50 bucks an hour or whatever it is. You know, it's kind of what we were talking about earlier. Yes, we we're in the business of protecting our members, getting our members fair wages and benefits, but we also understand that it's kind of meet them where they are, okay, kind of thing. And so there's kind of a difference between exploiting workers, which obviously as a union we're we're completely against, but there's also this understanding of what's what's good for the employer can sometimes be good for the employee because we want we want the business to succeed.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_01And the employee isn't gonna get raises or move up in the in the chain if the employer isn't succeeding because they're gonna have to find a new job, maybe start over again, you know, whatever it may be. So it's it's all kind of connected, and that's what we
Apprenticeship Programs Explained
SPEAKER_01specialize in and we know about, and we can, you know, again meet kind of meet these people where they're at.
SPEAKER_03But I think yeah we can talk a little bit more about well, and also I want to add training as an element of ongoing support and and how you've had success stories outside of cannabis, because you can you guys can utilize that knowledge, whether it's indirectly or directly, in advancing the workforce.
SPEAKER_02That's right. So state of Minnesota, uh to have an apprenticeship program, right? It has to meet a set of rules and protocol that comes with that. I mean, we have a well-established training program that that exists for an apprenticeship, right? So even to say that you have a genuine or bona fide apprenticeship program, it has to meet a certain amount, right? And there we are reporting back. Those hours are recorded, right? So there's a again, it's a check and balance that happens in order to be even a bona fide apprenticeship program. So that knowledge and experience that we have can be brought to the cannabis industry at some point in time, right? But it's gonna take people, it's gonna take people wanting to sign up with 49. It's gonna take time, right? It's gonna be a movement. That employer, though, will have input. What do they need to see for training? Uh, we've done it in uh all sorts of industries that are what I would call specialty. Um, so like a sewer and water, that's specialty, right? They're digging around utilities, gas lines, water lines, right? Sanitary, right? That's a specialty. They've added that class up to the training center. So to be able to add or adapt to what the need is right now, right? We've got lead line replacement that's happening. Yeah, right. That training needs to now happen. So we have those, we don't have those missed, or excuse me, we do not have those gas line hits, right? We hear stories every year across the country. Somebody's putting an A, you know, they're it's called HDD, it's horizontal drilling, right? They're directional drilling. That's correct. They punch that through the ground blind, right? And they're using old maps. So it takes a skilled worker to be able to punch that through the ground without hitting a gas line and then recognizing signs if one does get hit on what needs the protocol that needs to happen in order to evacuate an area to save to make sure lives are saved, right? That we don't have those injury and deaths, right? We learn that every year, right? The state of Minnesota, it's called the go for state one, right? Go for state one call, right? We're calling before we dig, right? Those things exist and those are things that 49 participates in. So that again, that history, that experience
Bringing Experience To Cannabis
SPEAKER_02can be brought to the cannabis industry, but it takes partners. Yeah, right. I we're not gonna develop it on our own and then hope, right? But if somebody's gonna come to us knowing that we're gonna listen, then we can then we can start to put something together. We can have something that's there for an employer. This is what I need when these people show up. Cool, let's get that put together.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I I appreciate the wisdom, the collective wisdom of the elders that I've been able to meet at local 49, right? Like the guys that have reached the boardroom because of the 20, 30, 35 year career that they've had, and they've been voted on by their members to be the representatives at the at the headquarters and out in the field. That's as you work, Benjamin. But the the ability to take on a new industry, it has to be bite-sized.
Building Industry Partnerships
SPEAKER_03That's right. It's it neither side can overcommit.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that would that would be fair to say. I mean, I I think to Benjamin's point, uh, you know, 49 has obviously been a willing participant in this industry. We we want to be able to help employers and employees alike. Uh we want to be able to to to protect the membership if if they decide to be uh a part of local 49. Uh, but we can't we can't create our training program or have extra classes or whatever it may be, whether it's from one class to whatever this thing looks like 20 years in the future, yeah, without input from the employers. And we can't we can't get the input unless they have the same buy-in that we do, right?
SPEAKER_02And so and that participation, right? They've decided to uh enter it into an agreement or a partnership with 49. Once they've made that agreement, right? That voice is loud and clear now. They've entered into an agreement. We're wanna I would again go back to the cannabis industry as a whole, or what I've learned, yeah, right. They want to take care of their people, right? I I don't, it's not the same corporate greed as some nameless, faceless, you know, uh private equity firm, right? It's gonna be hi Steve,
Supporting Cannabis Entrepreneurs
SPEAKER_02I've started this thing, right? You've got your your beverage that you're gonna roll out, right? You've already partnered with Erg Isles, right? Yeah, so you guys are already starting those partners, we're just gonna be another component as it as it blossoms, as it develops, right? We understand regulation is still uncertain, right? Every day there's new information that's coming out about where we're gonna land on this thing by the time we get to November. Yeah, but that participation doesn't have to be directly related to recreational cannabis, right? If you are a craft brewer, or if you're producing a drink, or if you're producing even the low, like that opportunity still exists, not in there. And I think we heard that the other day when uh from the the three panel that were up there, right? The one thing they talked about is they're gonna be willing to adapt. And some of the, you know, the liquor store that we heard from, right? He's prepared to adapt. He's I think he had 10 stores, maybe if I remember correctly. Yeah, right. He's already prepared to adapt. If it means not using credit cards, he'll drop the credit cards,
Benefits & Workforce Infrastructure
SPEAKER_02right? If it means going that's shifting this way, like he's prepared. So not or being young or starting out, right? You've already up against some barriers. Yep, and that's knowledge or or experience that somebody else is taking to learn. Yeah, you know. So, how do we take some of that away? We offer that health insurance, right? Our the pension that's gonna get involved, right? It doesn't have to be these big giant packages that you would see. I wouldn't expect it to be. I don't think it'd be fair for a startup, not at all. But what does it mean to have that that at least that basic package, the uh um, the uh uh terms of condition, right? Of employment, right? The the uh progressive discipline, right? You're not getting in to grow this plant to be able to have an org management committee meeting every Thursday and decide on how we're gonna do progressive discipline, right? We can put that together. That exists already. That's a template that already exists. How do we craft that to fit into yours? So that helps to Patrick's point. Yeah, right. You you've got to come, you know, help help meet us. We are, you know, uh help yourself and meet with us. Right. Let's get signed. Let's get, you know, what does it mean? What does it look like? And then hey, let's help push that forward.
SPEAKER_03Right. Right. It is a significant risk, and and I commend you and local 49 for participating as far as you have with the cannabis industry because there are uh so many unknowns. We could talk
Labor Peace Agreements
SPEAKER_03about the Amy Klobuchar, uh Senator Klobishar and Senator Paul from Kentucky, their their bill that would allow for any states that have defined hemp as a low potency product in their state, that there could be state to state trade. So brewers in Minnesota could still ship products to to South Carolina, right? For example. Uh let's use Georgia, that's a better example. That would allow a path forward for breweries and the labor peace agreements that you have in place.
Federal Hemp & Cannabis Policy
SPEAKER_03But there are a number of other scenarios that debilitate the industry and would cause it to p shrink temporarily before it would expand over years and years. And I and that is something that you guys are gonna pay close attention to as the year continues. We all are. It's a legitimate threat though, because you could potentially see if we were to fully deschedule cannabis is now like alcohol. Not to say there aren't rules and licenses in place, but it's it's not a scheduled drug.
SPEAKER_01It would just be traditional regulations like alcohol or something. ATF. Yeah. As opposed to special regulations like we have with the schedule.
SPEAKER_03And so if that were to happen, which isn't gonna happen today or tomorrow, you would see pockets like California would become the the largest grower of cannabis because it would be moving across state lines. Like oranges in Florida, for example. Traditional commerce across America.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03We're five plus years from from that being a reality. Not to say it's certain by any means, but there is that potential for shift. Colorado then becomes the hemp for fiber, and you start to see large patches of C BD being grown across Colorado, like mass scales. Not a bad trade-off because the machines will get bigger if you open up state lines, and then you have regional trade. Canada is very good at growing for seed, so you have hemp hearts that come out of Canada, like Manitoba Harvest, and you can buy McCostco everywhere. So cannabis will never go away, but we are in a significant shifting period right now. You guys are on board and you're feeling some of those changes as you talk to more people in the industry. It's
Navigating Industry Uncertainty
SPEAKER_03I'm not gonna say it's a bumpy ride, but it gets moved around a lot. You gotta be agile.
SPEAKER_02And I think how many that's with any good, I think that's with any industry. We see that even in the our traditional industry of what we represent. Good. I mean, you see the ups and downs, the ebbs and flows of just economic shift, right? Housing's up, right? We've got massive housing development, right? Housing's down, right? We get a bonding. Is the bond correct? It's the bonding bill, right? So those just because those shifts happen, I would say, in any industry. Capitalism, that's correct. It's it's our society. You're right. The recession, now we're not gonna do this. We're gonna see more public investment, we're gonna see more investment in roads, right? All of a sudden it goes the other way, and now we're gonna see development of apartment buildings or housing, you know, or big stretches of land that are gonna get developed, right? Right now it's data centers, it's power generation, it's uh it's the transmission lines, right? That's the next big push right now. We're seeing literally billions of dollars that are gonna get spent in that, but they're going through their own regulation issues, right? Right. What's gonna be their water use? What's the consumption on energy? What is the supplemental supply for power, right? We we have people that are going to these local meetings, state meetings to try to understand what's happening, right? You've got NDAs that are existing on when they show up in a neighborhood, right? So, I mean, you have local leaders that can't even talk about it because somehow they've been strong arm into an NDA, right? Again, we're protecting that work on that level.
SPEAKER_03So and you have the ability to help cultivation of the data centers. That's right, right? That the construction of but you guys play that's interesting, like you guys can protect and build.
SPEAKER_02That's correct. So depending on where it fits, right? The local community wants to make their decision once they've made their decision, right? We have the skilled workforce to do it amongst the other craft trades, right? To do the work, and then what's means for the work after the fact doesn't mean that there's 50 local jobs in a data center, right? Does that mean stationary engineers, right? We've uh on an international level, I'm hearing that on our conference calls, right? They're talking to the large data center owners and saying, Well, we need gonna need to man this, we're gonna need to be able to staff this. What does this mean? Well, we have a training program, training program down in uh in Houston, Texas, right? We've got a train, we've got local training centers, you know, amongst the different locals that exist. So yeah, I would say for what cannabis is feeling, they're not necessarily alone, right? I can very quickly equate it to power generation data center, mining, mining, mining's another one, right? Think about what we fight on regulation just on the mining alone, right? For northern Minnesota. Michigan goes through the same mining issues, right? So again, that we there's a shared experience, right? That's happening amongst different states that that information is getting shared amongst you know our peers in that state. So yeah, cannabis isn't alone in the in the regular industry, in the industry in the in the sense of this ebb and flow that happens, right? It happened
Workforce Development Opportunities
SPEAKER_02it we're seeing it, and I just listed the examples of how much absolutely exists that what I would see is similar to cannabis. Legal industry.
SPEAKER_01Legal industry at the Capitol, vying for pro progress. That's the common denominator. All this is happening at the Capitol. All these, you know, when we're talking about data science, when we're talking about mining, when we're talking about cannabis, when we're even talking about residential housing to some extent, we're talking about what is the discussion from our legislators, which is just generally why it's important to vote in your elections, right? To make sure that your voice is heard in these decisions that are being made. You can be pro data center or anti-data center or pro mining or anti-mining or somewhere in between, right? All these decisions get made by the people that we elect, you know, and that's why it's important to vote. But that's the common denominator, right? We're all eyes are on the Capitol, whether it's DC or St. Paul. Absolutely. And that's where these decisions are being made. And obviously 49 has has it's kind of, I don't know, positions the right way, philosophy about how we feel about these certain things. You know, Ben mentioned, like, if Rosemount citizens vote that they want a data center in their community, we'll be there to build it. Right. And so you can kind of take the politics out of it from a 49 perspective. We just want to put people to work, you know, and and places that people want them to work. And so, you know, that's just like cannabis. It's almost when I when we're talking about meeting employers where they are, we can meet the industry where it is, right? And so us like you, you know, we're keeping an eye on what's going on.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But I don't think it causes us any confusion or heartache or anything like that. We're just going to meet people where they are. We're we've already invested in this industry. We want to help employers and employees alike and citizens, just regular people like you and I, yeah, try to make a living and provide for their families and help these businesses grow to the extent that they need us. You know, we we talk about all the time, you know, our highway heavy agreement, our main agreement. You know, well, we see road construction. I used to despise it, but now I love it, right? And so it's one of those things.
SPEAKER_03But I'm a I'm a big fan of 280.
SPEAKER_01That's funny. Yeah, yeah, right. Me too. But we we talk about success stories, you know, these these companies that 20 years ago or however 10 years ago there were three or four people, and now they have 50 operators, right? Well, we, you know, we've been there along the way, not saying that we made it happen, right? These employers are making it happen, but we've been kind of a stable partner throughout, right? That's the terms and conditions of employment, it's expectations, it's benefit packages, it's training for their employees. It's, you know, a big thing that's happening in our industry right now is mental health. We're making a huge investment into mental health. As part of our health and welfare benefit package, uh, all employees, or it could be management too, depending on the situation, have access to free um with you know, therapists. They can call teams, correct. They can call teams. You know, we just had um, you know, we had a couple of of union members killed and you know, out on the road doing their job and some up north and team is there and they'll they'll send people out and they'll do the grief counseling and stuff like that. And if you're having marital issues or or financial, financial or just you're just dealing with things personally. In our mental our in our highway heavy agreement, all members uh are going to be taking a penny per hour out of their wage and you know putting it towards the Minnesota Construction Mental Health Alliance, you know.
SPEAKER_03So I just tell me about that.
SPEAKER_01Well, it's it's a program to so construct the construction industry in general is at least historically, it's well, and even today, although it's slightly better, has been more male-driven, right? Most it's mostly men. And there's this kind of unspoken, you know, and I I'd like to think it's getting better now, and I try to do my best at it, that men just kind of bottle up their feelings and just live with it, and I gotta tough it out. And and so I think Local 49 is making an active um effort at telling people it's okay not to be okay. You know, we want you to be a health healthy. You're gonna be able to show up to work on time and do your best if you're feeling good.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And and however that looks for you, if it's a therapist or if it's medication or it's just talking to someone or whatever it is, we want to be able to provide that for you because we think that that benefits the industry. The suicide rate is really high in construction, too high. And that's another thing. Um, you know, our leadership team at Local 49 has made a very concerted effort in, you know, talking about it at our membership meetings. Um, you know, I know our chief of staff, Mark Pothin, uh, went with other trades and employers to essentially a small conference to talk to people. What can we do to help these folks that are out there, that are our members in any way that we can, come brainstorming ideas, coming up with talking points or programs or whatever it may be. So we we have Mark sits on the Mental Health Alliance uh board, and so we have a voice, and employers have a voice. And it's really just there to figure out a way to reduce that suicide rate, to make sure that people understand in this industry, you know, that it's mainly, you know, employed by men that it's okay not to be okay. And it's okay to talk to somebody, and it's okay to get help because I think that's gonna benefit you, that's gonna benefit your family. And and you know, weirdly enough, it's gonna benefit your your coworkers and your employer, and you're gonna every ripple. It's a ripple effect, right? It's first and foremost, obviously it's about you and what you know your needs are and getting help. And so that what in the last probably 12 to 24 months, local 49 has been making a really really big effort at that.
SPEAKER_02And we, you know, it's a message that needs to get out there. Yeah, it's because it's one of those messages that this needs to be repeated each time, right? Every to everyone as you hear it more, right? It it it lessens the the barrier, right? It takes away from the stigma, right? And we're seeing it in other professions, right? We see it in professional sports now, right? That you you you have spokespeople now that are talking about mental health, right? So we're seeing it more, right? So for 49 to participate in it and then to make a financial commitment to it to make sure that that message continues to get repeated, right? It's like anything, right? Everybody's always a little eerie about it, and we're gonna break that, break down these old ideas and myths, and then all of a sudden it becomes now commonplace. Yeah, now it's okay to talk about it, you know. So when somebody says, Hey, I don't think I feel this, I don't feel that great, and you say it at a lunchbox, maybe you're able to go talk to that co-worker now and be like, Hey, then you're you know, you're able to uh engage without fear. Well, I I think it's important uh to to to Patrick's point on where the leadership is is taking that stance.
SPEAKER_01We just want to care about our brothers and sisters that are working hard, yeah, you know, that are that are helping move the labor movement forward. You know, we the union is about about people taking care of themselves and their families, right? That's that's really what the labor movement is about, protecting worker rights, making sure that they have a living wage, make sure they retire with dignity, you know, and this is all together, right? And mental health has obviously come a long way than it was even just 10 years ago, right? And I think 49 wants to be part of that discussion because, you know, the statistics show that our industry is a little harder hit than most industries. You know, it's late hour, you know, you could be working second shift overnight on a road project and you hardly see your family, or you're I'm on a mine up north and my family's in Roseville, you know, and I don't see them but for a weekend every now and again during the summer season, right? Right. And so all these things can weigh on people. And and like Ben said, you know, if it could just help one person at a lunchbox look at their cowork and say, hey man, I'm just not feeling okay, you know, and just make the discussion needs to be had, and we feel like, you know, and we appreciate our members too, right? Her are in their own right, you know, giving up a very small, you know, one cent portion, but that adds up over time with all the hours that the guys work. And yeah, we're hoping that it makes a real impact uh for our our community, and and we think that we can provide something similar, right? This is these are things that can be available to those in the cannabis industry, the teams, you know, the talking about the mental health alliance, you know, whatever.
SPEAKER_03Well, and think about where we're going with plant medicine.
SPEAKER_02Correct. That's a good point. Yeah, I mean, it ties right back into it, right? Is there something that's an alternative? But does it impair somebody's work ability, right? I mean, we hear the stories about you know, aging parents now, you know, not being able to drive, not being able to drive, but or they're participating in some of those low-derived, right? The there's the med the medicinal, right? We're seeing probably what would have been traditionally frowned upon all those years ago when they were, you know, at that age, but now they're 70, you know, they're getting they're getting into those later years of pain management for pain management, right? Or just to be able to sleep or to relax the mind, right? We're seeing all the different derivatives that exist out there, and you see those barriers starting to lessen, and then that opportunity for for parent, our parents, parents in general, right?
Future Industry Outlook
SPEAKER_02Those people that are you know maybe 65 and older, right? If it's recreationally, so be it. But they're willing to take it in a form of a gummy, they're willing to take it in the form of a drink, right? It's it's the stigma of what existed on Reefer Madness. But but hemp beverage all the way to Ibegain.
SPEAKER_03Correct. Like all the derivatives for PTSD, that's right, for military folk, exactly loud environments. I think about the loud environments that that your members work in and how that adds more stress to the job.
SPEAKER_02Let alone the go home and unwind and and and uh um you know, kind of yeah, you recalm themselves, right, to find that moment of peace, right? So it's not, you know, the the maybe they're not getting lost in a beverage all night long, right? And then they're it it just compounds on itself, right? If they're able to find a moment of peace, right, and and and then decompress, you know, what that looks like, right? And then making sure that the product doesn't impair the operator or whoever it might be, wherever they're working, right? They still need to be a productive member of society, right? We're not looking to melt into the couch, a trusted member of society. That's correct, yeah, right. So if they're adult responsible, that opportunity to go home and find that relaxation, right? If you know, like I said again, the parent finding all the different derivatives on what they're looking for as an aging adult like that. So, how does that even help?
SPEAKER_03Then uh it is an active member of society, and it it's the six-pack is not the six-pack of hemp beverages doesn't exist actually, it's the four-pack. That's right. And the reason why is you don't drink as many of them, right? It's simple. I've got a six-pack of lager uh in one part of my fridge. I got a couple of four packs. I brought most of them. Uh, I got one for you if you want to try it. Awesome. And uh what I'm hearing from the the top ten liquors of the world is that folks are drinking one before bed, two, they're not coming back to the liquor store. It is sold at a liquor store, but they're not coming back to the liquor store as frequently.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, or even splitting it. Sure.
SPEAKER_03Yep. You know, we saw that we heard that.
SPEAKER_01You know, the 10 milligram ones, you know, my wife and I will occasionally split, you know. Yeah. If that's if that's what it is, that's what it is. And it's like Ben said, it's it's all about doing you know, it kind of ties into the mental health thing. Correct, right? Because that's okay.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, because we have been stigmatized by alcohol, correct. You and I we met at we met as teenagers or right around. And so, like, there was a certain pressure to alcohol, to beverage, to drinking culture. So when we talk about cannabis and we say, I mean, this one doesn't even have any cannabinoids in it. This is non-dosed. So when we talk about there's a fearful context when we or uh we have to clear it, hey, I'm splitting it. But like it's because we grew up from Will Farrell and and uh and movies that like super bad and and like where you and before that there was generations of movies sure and you go all the way back to animal hulse and before they'll have it's always been part of the culture, it's just yeah, alcohol was the binge binge drinking.
SPEAKER_01That's right. Yeah, I remember when when we were in college and you walked into the basement of the dorm room and there was that there's that sign. I don't know why I remember this. It's like if you know if you binge drink, you're eating this many cheeseburgers or whatever, you know. At the bottom of the always a porn drink in.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, the bottom of Brady. Like a dentist poster on the right.
SPEAKER_01But it was normal, it was normalized. It was. And I think times are different now for many reasons, and that that being one of them, obviously, I'm sure you're acutely aware of the the statistics around uh the generation after us, right? And how significantly less alcohol they're drinking than the generations before them. I think I think I just read a statistic somewhere that said, you know, 20 to 29-year-olds are drinking less alcohol that now than than in the last however many dec decades, right? And so I think part of that is they have more they have more options.
SPEAKER_02That that's that was what we learned at the that was what we learned the other day, right? We learned that the idea the craft brewer, the microbrewer, needs to change. The idea of uh, and we kind of had some fun with it, right? With the turned up mustaches and maybe the silly hat or whatever. Yeah, right. Like I get it, the craft and the fun, and right that the palette. And what we heard from this the keynote speaker was that that honeymoon is over, it needs to change. And we heard from top 10 liquors, right? They're coming in and they might be getting a bottle of Tito's, but they might pick up that four pack a little bit of both. To your point, right? I can I can maybe have both or different at different times for different purposes. So to have it exist uh is as an option, we we're hearing that, like I say, from top 10.
SPEAKER_03I just want to get back to the plant-based element of it as well, of course, is because yeah, five milligrams THC low dose, even if you split it two and a half.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_03But they're talking about ibogaine, which is full-on flush, sure, the most intense treatment. And it all comes back to mental health, it all comes back to consciousness. We don't drink so much because we don't feel the need to. It's a different drug, it's a plant-based medicine, and it's not medical marijuana, but that whole vernacular needs to change and it needs to just become cannabis. Sure. And then we measure cannabis like we measure alcohol, there's levels of alcohol percentages. Without going down that whole path and an industry, I think there's certain takeaways from the alcohol industry, from the traditional three-tier distribution system. And to keep breweries in in business, we need to have cannabis beverages because they're the right fit for production. And that's where when we get together, it's fun to see those silver tanks because that gives you a chance to be in the in the door.
SPEAKER_02That's right. That's exactly what it is. And those opportunities to talk and look as we as we meet, right, pretty regularly, we're we get to hear from you know the server, the bartender, the owner, right? We're hearing about their story, right? We I have the opportunity to meet a few owners now, right? We hear where they're gonna make those investments, when they're gonna be ready to make the investment, right? We the regulation scares in a well-established business. If I'm gonna shift and change my business model and I make this and then it's not available, right? So our patience level is there, right? So to have the patience to listen, to meet them where they're at, provides that opportunity for. I mean, just to be a sounding board for them, right? I can absorb that, we can absorb that, we, you and I, then can have that discussion on what it where it's going. So I think it's real important that people understand that I that we want to listen on what that what that looks like for them. If it's an employee or it's an owner, I we need to hear where that model looks needs to look like. What are your concerns? Where do you want to grow that to? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So I love it. I can I can see great parallels for the future, and I appreciate you guys coming on the show today, especially on short notice. And if there's anything else you want to share before we go, what's the best way to get in touch? You know, we've we've got a partnership.
SPEAKER_02I think the best way to get in touch is through Canada Connect. Honestly, honest, you know, that's why we partnered with Canada Connect, right? We believe Canna Connect is has that voice that's got the finger on the pulse of the Cannabis Society on what that is, where that's at. It'd be foolish for us to try to market on our own from scratch. Made way more sense to again, it shows about a partnership. Yeah, right. We were repared and we we made that investment to partner with Canna Connect because I think that message can be brought. We see how many different associations, how many different groups, they're not all quite aligned, right? They all exist on this larger space, and I think Canna Connect does a really good job of bringing those guys together, at least
Closing Remarks
SPEAKER_02to be able to leave that source of information, and then they can come to that.
SPEAKER_03Amazing. And we'll put the link in the in the bio as this comes out in June, and we'll be having a web page set up by then, which is great. We're gonna have this interview on the page, and we've got Brainerd in July coming up July 30th, and then we'll be going to Duluth October 15th. And so that'll be another opportunity for local 49 to get out into the greater Minnesota area where these cultivation facilities are being set up.
SPEAKER_02And they're the we're looking forward to it. Yeah, it's been a great partnership thus far.
SPEAKER_03Amazing. Yeah, thank you. Appreciate it, Steve. Patrick, great to see you. Good to see you too. Benjamin, thanks for coming back. Great to see you, Steve. Yeah. We'll be back next week on the Can of Connect Show.
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