Mile 20 Mindset Podcast Episode 020 - Featuring Alex Hermanson

From Non-Runner to Ultra Marathoner: Alex Hermanson's Inspiring Journey

Introduction: In this episode of Mile 20 Mindset, host Alan Mao Donato chats with Alex Hermanson, a remarkable individual who transformed from a self-proclaimed non-runner to a dedicated ultra marathoner. Their conversation dives deep into Alex's journey, shedding light on the challenges and triumphs he faced along the way.

Section 1: The Reluctant Runner
Alex's journey into running began from a place of disdain. As a college baseball player, he struggled with running, famously failing a fitness test eight times. "I hated running with a burning passion," he recalls. His perspective shifted dramatically when he witnessed his girlfriend training for the New York City Marathon. Initially skeptical, he eventually found inspiration in her determination, leading him to take the plunge into running himself.

Section 2: The Turning Point
The pivotal moment for Alex came when he attended the New York City Marathon to support his girlfriend. Witnessing the sheer joy and accomplishment of the runners ignited a spark within him. "I started crying so many times that day, just watching people accomplish their dreams," he reflects. It was then that he decided to run the marathon himself, marking the beginning of his running journey.

Section 3: Training Realities
Training for a marathon proved to be a significant learning experience for Alex. He quickly realized the vast gap between his training and his girlfriend's impressive debut marathon time of 3:45. "I had to understand that our training blocks were going to look a lot different," he admits. His goal was simply to finish, emphasizing the importance of enjoying the process rather than focusing solely on times.

Section 4: Race Day Experience
On race day, Alex felt surprisingly relaxed. He recognized that the worst-case scenario was enduring discomfort for a longer time. This mindset helped him embrace the challenge. As he prepared to start the race on Staten Island, he shared his initial anxieties, especially when being corralled with other runners. However, as the race began, he was struck by the grandeur of the Verrazzano Bridge and the excitement of the event. 

Conclusion: Key Takeaways
Alex Hermanson's journey from being a non-runner to completing an ultra marathon is a testament to the power of inspiration, perseverance, and a positive mindset. His story encourages us to embrace challenges, celebrate our accomplishments, and appreciate the journey rather than just the destination. For anyone considering running, remember that every finish line is a personal victory. 

Tags: running, marathon training, ultra marathon, fitness journey, inspirational stories, New York City Marathon, Alex Hermanson, Mile 20 Mindset

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Hey, what's up? It's your boy Alan Mal Donado, and this is another episode of Mal20 Mindset. This is a running podcast for running enthusiasts, elite runners, novice runners, and those that love supporting the runners in their lives. I got an incredible guest, an incredible runner. Went from non-runner to ultramarathoner. Welcome to the show, Alex Hermanson. How are you doing today, brother?

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Thank you. Thank you. I'm doing so well. Better now I'm talking to you.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

Man, appreciate it, brother. Well, listen, I want to I want to get right into it. I know your story is fascinating. Like, where did it, where did it all begin? Where did store where did where did running begin? Was it you, you know, looking for therapy? Was it fitness? Like what turned you on to running?

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Yeah, I mean, running goes back to before this where I enjoyed running to where I really hated running. I actually hated it so, so much. I played college baseball. Okay. And uh I I failed our fitness test eight times my freshman year.

SPEAKER_03 1:06

And what was the fitness test?

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Like, how what was a mile and a half in nine and a half minutes?

SPEAKER_03 1:11

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

And that for me, that's like blazing saddles. That's 620 pace. That's no joke. Right, right. So I failed it so many times, and I'm like, I hate running with a burning pat. I'll never do this. The fact that people went out for runs for fun sounded insane to me. Yes. So then I've come back, and uh, what is it? I guess five years later, I'm like, you know what? Maybe I should make this running thing my whole life. So I got into it though, because I was just in horrible shape to start with. Like I knew I needed to make some kind of life just lifestyle change. Yeah. But also my girlfriend was training for the New York City Marathon. And I was so mean to her that whole training block. I was like, you're crazy. You should do anything but run 20 miles on the weekend. Like, what the hell are you doing?

SPEAKER_03 1:58

And so oh my god, just all the detour, every everything, everything, every obstacle. I love it. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

I remember her the morning she got in. She's like, I have a hold of my credit card. This can't be real. I actually got in because she got into the lottery with her.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

Yes, yes, she won the lottery.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

She won the lottery.

SPEAKER_02 2:15

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Yeah. Oh, and she's so impressive, too. She had never run a marathon prior to this one. She just, you know, is such an athlete and such a determined person.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

She has to be with you on the sidelines.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

I know.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

I was so harsh. And then as soon as that day came around and she ran the New York City Marathon, and we were out there cheering in Brooklyn, cheering on Fifth Ave. Oh, I man, I started crying so many times that day just watching people accomplish their dreams. And then at the end of the day, I looked at my best friend who was sitting there with me, and I was like, dude, I'm doing this next year. And the the rest is history, I picked up the shoes the next day and ran the New York City Marathon the next year.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

So Wow man, listen, like that that story just took sort of the next question, um, you know, just took it out as far as like how did you decide to run this marathon? Just because New York is special, man. I try to tell people I've ran, you know, Chicago, I've ran several of the majors. Um, and nothing has compared to New York in the fanfare. How at every mile, every inch of that marathon, there is, there are fans cheering for you in a way that um that's why I love marathons. It's a it's a safe space where everyone in the audience, whether you know them or not, are rooting for you. And if you just get it get in eye contact with these people, you can feel that to be earnest. And that's something that's you don't really get anywhere else. So you decide to do this marathon, your girlfriend is a superhero. Um let's talk about training. Like, what did training teach you? Because now you just witness your girl do it, and now you gotta go through the rigorous days and mouths that comes with marathon training. So, what did it teach you?

SPEAKER_00 4:07

I I learned really quickly how good she was at it. How ridiculously good. She she debuted with like a 345 marathon. Like, no, nobody does that. Right, right. And so I remember the f the hardest part of kind of once you get into the marathon training, right? So I I did my my time per se. I did the really hard part of getting started walking a lot, not really running as much, but just walking and kind of taking my time to build up to it. And then once we get into actual marathon training, and you know you have that first block. I mean, it was like six miles on a run m random Tuesday morning, and I that was all the miles I could imagine at the time. I'm like a week. She would come, she would come home from like 10 miles, 12 miles a day. And I'm like, I'm doing half of that. How is she how is she doing this? Yeah. So I had to get over that rather quickly. I had to understand that our training blocks were gonna look a lot different. And mine was really just to get to the finish line, however that looked. Whereas hers was like, all right, now there's like we can do this for some time. Wow. So the training block then turned to a lot of just time on feet, right? Just figuring out ways to, you know, be up on my feet for four hours, even if it meant going on my run, then walking to the farmer's market or something. Yep. And just spending time or going to the mall and maybe doing my favorite thing, which is shopping. So it's like, you know, you can kill two hours pretty quickly doing a little bit of shopping. Yeah. So, you know, we it was just finding different ways to stay on my feet and build up my leg strength. Cause at this point, I mean, that that was all that I really need to uh accomplish.

SPEAKER_02 5:46

It was just by completing.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Yeah, we're just trying to get across the finish line. It's I didn't, I could not have cared less if I finished in four hours, five hours, six hours, seven hours. That was that was just, you know, let's just go have fun and see. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

The goal is the goal, man. I I've helped um, I believe 15 people run their first marathon, and I think that's the the biggest mistake that a lot of people on their first time, they try to go for a time and be they try to PR their first race, and it's like whatever your time is, is your PR. Like, that's the PR.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

You can't not PR today. That's the best.

SPEAKER_03 6:22

Right, right. You can't lose today. Like, take the pressure off.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

Like, let me ask you this. How many of those people came to you after running a half marathon and they were like, oh, I'm ready for it. Let's go for the full one now.

SPEAKER_02 6:33

Oh, um, let me see. None of them really come. Like, not in the idea. Just because they were, a lot of them were already, they didn't, they wouldn't, they didn't run the half marathon until they decided to do the marathon. Like it was a part of training. Yeah, it was a part of training. So it wasn't like they did it, it was like, okay, I'm ready. Like, no, it was just a part of our training that we finally we did a half marathon instead of just doing it out on the on the street, we just joined a race, you know, and that's that's so they didn't they didn't have that sort of epiphany, like, oh, I want like I want to go for the full thing. So definitely different.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

The the amount of people that have come to me and they're like, how much harder is the marathon than the half? Like the half felt pretty, and I'm like, imagine that. Yeah, but then like you think it's doubly as hard, but it's really about twenty-seven times harder. Correct. And just for the exact name of the show, the mile 20 mindset. Yeah, you don't experience mile 20 and a half marathon. No, you don't. Oh, no, you don't. You're not ready for that kind of pain.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

Well, yeah, yeah. And then and before we get there, let's let's let's talk about um the like race day on your first day. Like, because there's one thing to be a part of the the crowd, and then there's another to actually be a part of the marathon. Like, take me to to race day as this you you literally was talking crazy to your girlfriend, your girlfriend about how crazy this is. And now, and you and you ran New York, is that correct? Yep, yep. And you're at one of the biggest marathons in the world.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

It was the biggest that year, like broke the record.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

Oh, so what take a take me to race day. Like what before we get into the male 20, because we're gonna definitely get there. Like race day, what what were the feelings you were feeling?

SPEAKER_00 8:26

Oh, you know, I was shockingly relaxed. I think that something about understanding that, you know, a race is like a very controlled environment in the sense that like the worst thing that could happen today is you just take a lot longer on your feet and everything hurts a lot longer. I mean it it's just like dealing with the pain of it. So when once I kind of came to be okay with that, it was really just a matter of you know, executing, keeping my feet moving forward. So so in the morning I get to race village or what it's we're over on Long Island.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

Where everyone is wrapped in in foil. Yeah, yeah, everyone's wrapped in foil. It's five in the morning because you have to be there for some reason 22 hours before you actually start the race. Yep, yep. It's insane. So we're sitting there, you know, sitting on the corner, wrapped up in our foil, eating our Dunkin' Donuts, sipping on some coffee. Yeah, eating some bagels or whatever. And then, you know, the four hours that I had to wait before my corral flew by, actually. It was remarkable how fast it fell because next thing you know, we were getting packed into your corrals, and you know, this was my first big, big race. I had never done anything other than like a local 5k, 10k, or like half marathon. So getting like actually like feeling like you're being corraled, kind of uncomfortable. You don't really like that very much. So if if there was any point where my anxiety kind of peaked in the morning, it was at this moment when they shut the gates literally behind you, and they're like, just start walking. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

This feels wrong.

SPEAKER_02 10:12

So so you're at that, so you're at the the the the the the gun goes off and you're at the start line. What were you you what are the thoughts that are running through your head as you take your first few steps starting the marathon?

SPEAKER_00 10:24

Like Man, the Faronzano is so much bigger than I would have ever imagined. You ever drive over that thing? You're over it in a minute and a half. Yes, yeah running upwards. It takes 12 minutes.

SPEAKER_03 10:36

It's like, wait a minute. Like, yeah, this is a roller coaster ride. I can hear I can hear every clink going up to the yo, it's it's high.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

Yeah, that's a big uh so it was that, and then two, that cannon scared the shit out of me. Who whose idea was it that we set off a cannon every 45 minutes to start this thing? It could have we could have done with one cannon shot. I've told Ted Mattellas this multiple times now. Because every time I'm like, dude, we could have done one cannon and been fine. Just give me like a horn, little you know, a little blow work. Anything other than that. And then three, it was like, this is okay, this is real. We're really doing this now. Yeah. And I think that we put so much stock as runners into race day where it's like this big, crazy, magical thing where it's like, oh, and like you watch the videos online and they kind of fly by. So it's just this great, beautiful, you know, video or thing in front of you. Once you're on the course, you're like, oh, this is like very chill, and this is very real, and I have to take all of these steps now. That's the only way we're getting to the end of this. And the kind of the uh serenity that kind of takes over your body is like, whoa, okay, we're in this thing. Let's go.

SPEAKER_02 11:57

Yeah, it's a pe it becomes this peaceful chaos. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

Up until you get, I mean, to like if we're talking about going through the race, up until you get to like Williamsburg, where people actually start patting you on the back and stuff, and you're like, oh, this is real chaos. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

Oh yeah, yeah. This is real. And then New Yorkers are drunk by 7 a.m. It is, it is lit. It is lit. So let's let's get into it. Let's get to the to the Mal20 mindset as far as at every every race, you have this wall where you know your mind, body, and soul begins to attack you, to tell you to stop. You have those conversations of like, why am I doing this? Why did I pay for this? Um, what when did when did that happen? What mal and what were you thinking?

SPEAKER_00 12:44

For me, it was mile 18. Okay. And I will never forget it because that's the first time I've ever thrown up from running. You know, you don't forget your first. No, you don't. In any way, shape, or form. So I had, I don't know what went wrong. I had done my 20 miler, you know, taken all my fuel the same exact way, drank my water the same way. But for some reason at Mile 18, my stomach wanted to start giving me problems, and it got really, really, really hard. And that's where, you know, I was saying with the half marathon jump, it's like people are like, oh, that's doubly as hard. No, because there's this obstacle, like you were saying, where your mind is telling you that you cannot go any further. Yep. That it's going to go to the so far as to make you throw up. Yep. Because it doesn't want you to continue on this path that you're quite literally following. Mile 18 is where I really just, you know, I broke. And I was like, wow, this is now the hardest thing I've ever done in my entire life. And how do I get out of this? Because there's still another eight miles left to go. And eight miles is not a small amount of distance, you know. That's that's at least an hour and 10 minutes or hour 20 minutes of work if I if I start moving well. So, you know, we hunker down. I luckily ran into some friends right around mile 20 and was able to eat some salad food. I can't remember what they gave me. I think it was maybe a donut, maybe a bagel, maybe a pretzel. Whatever it was. It did the trick. It felt much better than sucking down another one of those gels. Yeah. So up until the finish, then I didn't really consume anything because I just couldn't keep it down. I didn't feel like I, you know, I didn't feel comfortable even trying to eat any more gels. So uh from there till mile 26.2, it was just a grind, you know, fighting that mile 20 kind of wall. Yeah, we never got over the wall. We were just pushing the wall. It's like if if the wall could move, that's what was happening. The wall was just continuing to move with every single step until the finish line. At no point did it get easy.

SPEAKER_03 15:00

I didn't get over it. It didn't go over. It was just uphill. It was no downhill.

SPEAKER_02 15:04

Oh man, that's that's funny. So so tell me, like, you since you carried the wall with you from Mal 18 to 26.2, how did it feel when you finally crossed the finish line?

SPEAKER_00 15:20

That was a reward. That was the thing that you know you dream of. I think as many runners feel when you cross that first it doesn't even have to be a marathon, but like your first big finish line. For me, that was the one. That was the one that was like, you did this work for 20 weeks where you were just building up for this one race, and then you get it and it pays off. It pays off really, really hard, and it feels really, really great. And you know, I was able to look back at the race in rose-colored glasses rather quickly and be like, oh, we really could have turned that thing up. It wasn't that hard for the last eight miles, it was that hard. In the moment, it was the hardest thing you could have ever done. But because I did that, I thought to myself, okay, we can take this a step further. We can either get really much better at this marathon thing, because that was not the performance we uh could all dream of, of course. It's the first one. And two, I think I can genuinely just run further. I can just push myself to go further, which got me very curious about the ultra thing. So I was like, okay, if I'm not the fastest guy on the course by any means, but I could go a lot longer. I can just keep my body moving forward for a much longer time than this. So that was kind of the birth of the all right. Maybe we go a little bit further than this. Yeah, no, because two things.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

That was my next question as far as like how has the marathon changed you after after that first marathon, accomplishing this this personal feat? Like, how has it changed you? And of course, uh, because we're gonna I'm gonna definitely want to ask about the ultra marathons, because I I have yet to do one, and I I I do plan on making making that jump and getting one under my belt. But um but yeah, so what how do you think uh it affected you after crossing?

SPEAKER_00 17:13

Oh, it turned me into such an asshole. It made me let everyone in my life know that I was a marathoner. Yes, yes. Oh, I I am so much better than everyone in my life. Are you kidding me? You didn't do that.

SPEAKER_03 17:31

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

No, but you know, in all seriousness, it it really did boost my confidence and not necessarily in an egotistical way, but it made me feel like for the first time in many years, I started something, I continued on with that thing, and I didn't stop until I saw it through. And that was really rewarding. And it was a confidence builder because I was during the pandemic, man, I don't know if you remember, but like it was pretty easy to be down on yourself. And like I was as down on myself as I had ever been. So you know, coming off of that and finding the confidence to start running, but also you know, pull through and get to that finish line really made me feel great. Like that was that was almost a high that you know that couldn't be replicated, you know, until the next marathon, of course, is it couldn't just stop there.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

Right, right. So before we go into the ultra marathons, what would be your biggest tip to anyone that is on the fence or even just thinking about running their first marathon? What would be your biggest tip to them?

SPEAKER_00 18:41

Uh don't take the uh idea of running a marathon too seriously. Take the training seriously, but don't let it consume you to the point where it defeats you. Because I think one of the things I've seen the most over the last couple of years of people is them signing up for the marathon, and then the marathon, the race itself, becomes this overwhelming feat that just eats them alive and they can't see themselves getting to the finish line, or they can't, you know, see it through because they become so nervous and kind of panic at the distance but where you know they just don't even show up to the race line. So take a step back. It's just at the end of the day, listen, the marathon's a marathon, you have to accept that distance is no joke and it will always always, always gain your respect. But also it's it's just another race. There it doesn't have to be the only thing consuming your mind for that entire training block because if you become scared to run that first 26-point true or two, uh, it will defeat you before you even show up to the starting line. And and I never want to see that happen.

SPEAKER_02 19:56

Well said, man. Well said, man. Um well let's talk about the ultras real quick. Like, so you I you gave us a brief sort of understanding of like, wow, I can I think I can go further. Um take us to what's the like what's the difference? Like I'm because I'm this is a cu I'm really curious as far as um marathon to ultra, and I guess what's the furthest one you've read?

SPEAKER_00 20:21

Man, let me tell you, it's a whole different life out there.

SPEAKER_03 20:25

It is it's outer space.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

It is like it is like crossing over from 1999 into 2000 and you didn't all just explode because of the computers or anything like that. It's just like boom, the world is colorful. The ultra marathon thing for me is very, very fun because it allows me, most of the races are in nature, so it allows you to connect with nature a bit. They're on trails, which helps you focus on your surroundings and kind of every step that you take. And they're just so much more relaxed. And this is this is my number one selling point, and this is why I think you should do it. Is that if you have an audience or you have people checking in on your times and you feel intimidated by that in any way, shape, or form. They're like, you know, Herm could have ran a much better marathon time. People can't look at a 50-mile race and go, they could do a lot better than that. People don't know who the hell knows how long a 50-mile race is gonna take you. They might have an idea of what a good marathon looks like. Yeah, you better be sub-four hours, you better be sub three hours. Right. As soon as you step up into ultras, they're like, oh, bravo. You you moved 50 miles. It could take you 12 hours. They have no clue if that is a good, bad, or ugly time. That's great. There's no pressure at all in everyone around you. You talk you want to talk about becoming an asshole after a race? Finish a 50 miler. Oh, nobody's coming for you. So that's what I'm that's why I'm addicted to this.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

Like Iron Man. You look like Like Iron Man, exactly that.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

Well, that's the funny thing, too. The medals for ultras are horrible. It's so much worse. You never get a good medal. Once you get up to 100 milers, they start giving you belt buckles. Those are pretty cool. I just did JFK 50, which is the oldest ultra marathon 50 miler in the country.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

And it's down in DC. Dude, I think they got the medals at the dollar store.

SPEAKER_02 22:27

Oh, that's that sounds like my first marathon. It's a medal with a sticker on it.

SPEAKER_03 22:32

That was like a couple of those. I just almost died. This is what you give me. All right, thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

And then you show up to like a world major marathon, and it is just this big staff medal.

SPEAKER_03 22:48

Yes. Yes, yes, yeah. No, I'm definitely in it for the meadow. So that uh they're gonna have to do something about that. Because the cooler the metal, I'm I'm definitely there. I don't care where it is. Um I'm I I just really love the metal. I'm addicted to them.

SPEAKER_02 23:01

So I that's my vice. It's a bad addiction. I can admit to it. I love a good medal.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

You know, for me, it's the I I allow myself to get a tattoo after every big race. I do, I get a tattoo as well. Oh, for me, it's just the tattoos. Like I jokingly posted it one day, like probably a year ago, maybe two years ago. I'm like, book your tattoo appointment because then you'll have to finish the race. You're not going to get that tattoo if you didn't finish the race. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. And I was like, oh wait, no, this is actually what I do.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

I love it, man. Yeah, no, I get my I got my calf. I got my calf, and I got it pretty much like a calf sleeve, and it's got all the cities. Yeah, all my like just race tattoos. That's dope. That's dope. All right, so let's go to this last segment, which is uh what I like to call the knees out speed question. Like knees out is my running crew, the knees out coalition. Um and you can answer with one word, but of course you can elaborate. But knees out means yes, and knees in means no. All right. So our first question is during training, did you ever think about quitting but still showed up for yourself?

SPEAKER_00 24:08

Knees in all the time.

SPEAKER_02 24:10

All right, all right. Do you think everyone has at least one marathon in them?

SPEAKER_00 24:17

Knees in. Okay, okay. I think with enough training, anybody can cross the finish line.

SPEAKER_02 24:23

Yeah. I agree. I I agree. I agree. I agree if you have a strong enough why. Yeah. You can now you'll be broken up afterwards if you don't train. You go you may not walk for a month, but you can finish if you got a strong Y.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

Um, so I would say I I would never advocate for the whole running marathon, no training. That's that's what it's to me.

SPEAKER_02 24:45

Same, same.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

Yeah. But the if you get some training in there, anybody can do it. I that's the beauty of this thing. That's why I broke down so much that first day when I went to see Alexa or my girlfriend run the New York City Marathon. Yeah. Was that I saw so many people from so many different walks of life. It was big people, it was small people, it was tall people, it was everyone you could ever imagine from ages 21 to 89 out on that course, and you got to share it together, and you were all in there trying to accomplish the same thing. And that is what fired me up. And that was it was seeing someone that at the time I probably weighed 310 pounds, and me looking at a guy thinking, oh, that guy's probably about 6'2, 310 right now, too. Well shit, if he's if he's at mile 24 on Fifth Avenue, I could be on mile 24 at Fifth Avenue. And that's what changed the mindset was just going and seeing normal people that are out there accomplishing such a badass goal. And that's why I'm like, anybody could do this, you know? We we all have the strength. It just takes a little bit of perseverance, and like you said, you're a good why. Good why will take you really far.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

I agree, I agree. And um the next question is is is piggybacks off of that. Do you think the marathon is more mental or physical?

SPEAKER_00 26:03

Knees. Oh, I guess that wouldn't be a knees in or out. That would be it's more mental. It's 100% more mental. I saw a great thing the other day. What was it? I think it might have been Coach Bennett jokingly saying something like running is a hundred percent physical, but also a hundred percent mental. So yeah. He's not wrong. No, no, no, no, because the marathon is such you can you can honestly although mile 20, mile 18, mile 22 is kind of the range where you'll hit the wall, you can really bury yourself super, super early. If you think way early on, mile two, mile three, no, this pace feels too fast for today. Yep. And I have to do this for 23 more times. 23, and then every number that clicks by, you're like, oh no, I'm not getting any closer, any faster. And then that just becomes all consuming. The the you wanted the hardest one for me, this this past race season, twice it happened. Um the Garmin gives you a score when you first start running. It's like a range from like negative eight to positive eight. Okay. Anything positive is always good. Anything negative is not positive. So on both of my race days this fall, I I had a negative four. And they tell you this a mile into your run. And I'm like, oh Garmin, I really needed you to take the day off and just not tell me anything.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

You tell me I'm I'm a minus four and I still have 25 miles to go. And and that can be really, really mentally hard if you kind of think about that data a little bit too much. Because you do so much to prepare for the day, right? You lay out your f clothes, you do your flat lay, you get all your fuel together, you wake up extra early, you trim your toenails, you do whatever you know you have to do. And then your stupid watch tells you that you don't feel good. You're like, I did everything. I lined this up so you would tell me it was going to be the best day of my entire life. So that can be really mentally hard.

SPEAKER_03 28:13

No, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 28:14

That that will chew you up super early into a race. So yes. Yeah. 100% mental, 90% physical.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

Okay, all right, all right, all right. Um, my next question is do you think running changes a person beyond the mile?

SPEAKER_00 28:28

Yeah. Yes, 100%. I think I don't know. I haven't been able to figure out how to explain this one yet. It's a working theory and it's something I've been thinking about a lot. But I think runners learn empathy in a different way than anyone else in the world, maybe bikers too, but I th and I think it's kind of comes in the notion that we explore the world by foot, right? I think so often we get caught up traveling by train, by car, by plane, and we don't think about the people or the things that surround us. When you're train when you're going to a new city and you're exploring by foot, you're seeing so many different things and so many different people and so many different situations that you will probably not notice traveling in any other way. And I think that by doing that, you've learned so, so much about cultures and neighborhoods and people and everything that comes along with it. I mean, these are things that you really wouldn't get to experience unless you're just out there roaming. And I think runners truly have a level of empathy that, you know, are I would just say a heightened level of empathy. And it comes from being, you know, kind and courteous to your other runners along the path, but also then the people whose blocks and neighborhoods you're entering when you're out on that run, you know. I would rather be running through a neighborhood than along the side of the freeway any day of the week. But at the same time, like I gotta know, like, I'm entering your space, so like give a wave, say hi, introduce yourself. And I think that that's something that you know we really own. And it's kind of badass.

SPEAKER_02 30:11

Yeah, no, the running community is is such a a positive and in a community that embraces um with healing energy. And and and and that's why I truly love Marathon Race Day. Um, because it has nothing to do with the mileage, it has nothing to do with the mouse, it has everything to do with when you go to New York and you feel that love, and you can feel the people being inspired by your actions. Like just how you became a runner and just sort of the full circle of it all is like it was that energy that came over you that made you not only want to do it, but make you believe you can do it.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

Mm-hmm. It's so strange to say, but you can feel the energy literally passing between people. I don't I'll never be able to explain how what or how it's being done. The only other time I've ever felt this, and this is just because of a big deadhead, is like at a Grateful Dead concert, where you just feel like and that might be the drugs, I don't know. But that's like the it's just like the love and the passion and everything just literally leaving your body and transferring to someone else's. Yeah. New York City Marathon's the only other place I've ever felt that in my entire life. Where it just Yeah, I agree. And you you lose all sense of control over your emotions and feeling because you know, it's a positive energy that just takes over and sets you free.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

Yeah, man. It's it's those sort of um spiritual connections that that come through when you get a group of people that are aligned and at marathon, just everybody's there for different reasons and is usually built off, built through their hearts. Like they're running for their everybody's there for their their runner or for a runner that is running for their why. And you don't even need to know why, but you believe in them. And like that is it's it's a unique space that it I've in this human experience, it's it's very rare you go into any spaces where there's there's no opposition, but just positivity. And that's what Marathon Race Day feels to me, man. But um, but yeah, Alex, man, this has been incredible, man. It's been an incredible conversation, man. Um what's uh what's the up upcoming uh races you got? You got another ultra? What's the what's the next what's the next thing on the on the on the play? You know, I wish I could tell you.

SPEAKER_00 32:41

I I know for a fact that I have a 50k coming up here in April. Uh early April. And then after that, man, I don't know. Um I don't know what year where I want to take this year yet. I I might want to run another fast marathon. I kind of want to run a really fast half marathon. I kind of really want to run a hundred K race. So one of those three things might happen, two of them. I'm not quite sure yet. I guess we'll find out. I think New York City's gonna happen again this year. Okay. Um, if I get everything to go my way, the way that I hope to see the fall turn out, I will be running New York City with my best friend, the guy that I turned to in New York and said I'm gonna do this next year because now I feel like I've convinced him. Oh, right. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 33:31

So yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

Well that's hopefully in the fall. And then outside of that, I don't know. I you know, I might not run too many races this year. I'm I'm so in love with the training process. And at this point, races just kind of hinder my 70-mile weeks where like it really makes me not want to run for the next couple days.

SPEAKER_03 33:52

I got you. I got you. I know what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

I just want to stay in my routine uh become a creature of that.

SPEAKER_02 33:58

That's beautiful, man. That's beautiful. Well, listen, man, good luck on all the upcoming runs, man. Listen, everybody out there, please follow and subscribe. This is another episode of Mal20 mindset. Peace, y'all.