Mile 20 Mindset

Mile 20 Mindset Podcast Episode 024 - Featuring Dre Padon

• Maldonado Media • Season 1 • Episode 24

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From Couch to Marathon: Dre Pabon’s Inspiring Running Journey

Introduction:  
In the latest episode of Mile 20 Mindset, host Allen Maldonado welcomes Dre Pabon, a passionate runner who transformed his life through running. Dre shares his journey from being a casual athlete to completing marathons, inspired by personal family experiences and a desire for a healthier lifestyle.

Section 1: The Beginning of a Running Journey  
Dre's running journey began at the age of 32, catalyzed by personal health concerns and family history. As he humorously notes, when his wife was pregnant, he found himself indulging in her cravings, leading to unwanted weight gain. Coupled with a history of diabetes and health complications in his family, including the loss of his brothers, Dre realized he needed to make a change. He recalls a pivotal moment when he looked at a picture of himself with his son and recognized the need to prioritize his health.

Section 2: Taking the Leap  
Determined to turn his life around, Dre signed up for his first half marathon in December 2015. With a solid plan in hand from Runners World, he trained diligently on his own for months, unaware of the vibrant running community around him in Brooklyn. His first race in April 2016 marked a significant milestone, igniting his passion for running.

Section 3: Finding Community and Mentorship  
After finding his footing in the running world, Dre connected with local running crews and mentors, including Kelvin Coffee, who played a crucial role in his development as a runner. Through late-night runs and shared experiences, Dre learned the importance of community in enhancing his running journey and pushing his limits further.

Section 4: Embracing the Marathon  
Despite initially resisting the idea of running a full marathon, Dre eventually embraced the challenge, motivated by his New York roots. He participated in the New York Roadrunners' 9 plus 1 program, allowing him to secure an entry into the iconic New York City Marathon. Dre's excitement is palpable as he describes the marathon as the "biggest block party in the world," where he could run alongside familiar faces and soak in the electric atmosphere of the city he loves.

Conclusion: Key Takeaways  
Dre Pabon’s story is a powerful reminder of the transformative power of running. His journey from an uncertain novice to a confident marathoner underscores the importance of community, mentorship, and personal motivation in achieving health and fitness goals. Whether you’re a seasoned runner or just starting, Dre’s experience inspires us all to lace up our shoes and hit the pavement.

Tags: running, marathon, health, fitness, community, personal journey, motivation, New York City Marathon, running community, athlete lifestyle

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SPEAKER_05

Hey, what's up? It's your boy Alan Maldonado, and here's another episode of Mal20 Mindset. This is a running podcast for elite runners, novice runners, and those that love supporting the runners in their lives. I got another great episode today, an incredible runner. Please welcome to the show. Dre, Pabon, what's up, baby? What's good, bro?

SPEAKER_03

So we're just going to continue the conversation we was having offline because that was a good thing.

SPEAKER_05

I mean, yeah, I know. Like this, like listen, we'll we'll we we spent about 20 minutes before we hit record. It was like, oh, here we go. We we got talking about running, man. So but let's let's I I would really want to know um where did it all begin for you? Like where did running start? Like it was it was it fitness? Was it sort of, you know, how some people was it was school? What was it for you?

SPEAKER_03

So it wasn't school. Okay. It was it was like a kind of a perfect storm of a few different things. Around 32, my wife and I, we had my son. If there are any runners that are parents, you know, like, you know, your wife gets pregnant and uh you eat what she eats. Right. Whenever she eats. Right, right, right, right, right, right. And I've always been uh an athlete, like, you know, we talked about before. I played football. I've always gym. Running really wasn't a thing, but like um, you know, at that 32, 33-year-old, like it's hard to take that weight off, right? And it was just like, so like that was like the one thing. Um this the the second thing was like I just started looking at like my family's health history. Um I had a period of like two years where like my dad lost three of his sisters to complications from you know diabetes, high blood pressure, hypertension, just you know, whatever. And I just kind of like looked at it like, and that's on both sides of my family, right? Like my dad, he's Puerto Rican and my mom is black, so it's like both sides of the family.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Come on, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, Maldonado, absolutely. Yeah, there it is, right there. Pa bong. Pa bong, right? Yeah, yeah, bah. Um, and uh, and along that, you know, I'm looking at I had an older brother, I have two brothers who both of them passed away in 2021. They were both diabetic. Sorry, it's all uh, listen, cycle of life, you know what I'm saying? Like um, but you know, they both had diabetes. Uh my brother, my oldest brother Tony had kidney failure, so he was on dialysis, right? And then my brother Phil, um, you know, he passed away from pancreatic cancer, right? And a lot of people that are diabetic, like pancreatic cancer is something that, you know, you gotta like look out for. So back in like 2014, 2015, I'm just like noticing all of this like around me. And I just like the third part of it was I smoked cigarettes for like eight years of my life. And I just looked at my like something just clicked in my head and was like, yo, this lifestyle is not sustainable, right? Given all of these factors that are going on around me with like my family and you know, whatever. Yeah. And um, you know, I looked at a picture of myself, me and my son, and I it wasn't bad weight, but it was unhealthy weight for me. I didn't feel healthy at 235, 240 pounds. And I'm six feet tall, so it's not that bad, right? Like, right. But something just clicked in my head. I'm looking at my son and I'm like, yo, I gotta be here for him and his older sister. What is this gonna look like 40 years from now, right? Like, and this is not sustainable. And it just clicked in my head, and I was just like, you know what? I signed up for half marathon. It was December of 2015. I'm just celebrating 10 years of running. Okay. So December 2015, I signed up for half marathon. I gave myself six, like four or five months to train. Um, I went on the Runner's World website, I downloaded a running plan, and I ran solo for like six months. I didn't even know, like, I'm in New York, I'm in Brooklyn. There are hundreds of run crews here, right? Yeah. I did not know that they existed, right? So, like, I'm just so And what year was this? What year was this? This was the end of 2015. My first race was uh April of 2016.

SPEAKER_05

Well, you know, but listen, man, this did the runners boom has really taken off the last couple of years, but I remember when I first started running in 2018, it was not popular. It was an underworld, man. Yeah, it was a dark dark arts. You couldn't you couldn't go online and sort of get these tips, man. You just have to meet warriors out in the field and be like, so what did you learn?

SPEAKER_03

Someone that you had on the pod, uh, who I've known over 20 years, Kelvin Coffee. He was one of the top. Yeah, yeah, he's one of my mentors. Like I've known him from the I work in fashion and marketing. Yeah. Uh and uh, you know, he was the uh the editorial director for Double XL magazine. Douxel, yeah, that's correct, yeah. So he used to, I used to be at a Nietzsche, and he was pulling out some names.

SPEAKER_04

What? Nietzsche, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, yes. I was the marketing director there. I went from intern to marketing director there. Oh, dope, no, no. So Coffee used to come to the office and pick up clothes, and we just kind of kicked it. And then when I started running, he was already pacing for Nike Run Club. Yeah, and he took me under the wing. You know, he used to take me. We we used we started out as night runners because we had small children, right? So we put the kids to bed. Yep. And he'd take me through Brooklyn for like 15 miles at like 10 o'clock at night. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Coffee ain't no joke, man. He he'd be doing them 100 mile weeks.

SPEAKER_03

First of all, the thing that amazed me, bro, don't run with a watch. No. His phone ain't on, he has no music. Nope. And we'll put up a hundred miles. He'll put up, I I run with no music sometimes, but I can't put up a hundred miles just straight raw dogging.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like raw dog in the run with no. Dovey is special.

SPEAKER_03

He is special. So that's my that's my homie. That's my big brother. Yeah. Um, you know, so that's that's how it started for me. It was just like, yo, I gotta get healthy, and um I had to kind of just like I won. My goal when I first started running was to be an active grandparent to my kids' kids. Look at that. That was like my first thing.

SPEAKER_05

I got a friend of mine's who's a comedian, and um he had this joke about his his father never, he had an old dad, and um his fat he never saw his father run. And that hit me kind of hard. I was like, wait a minute, like it that's a that's a real thing. Like, those kids that you've they'd never seen you take off one time.

SPEAKER_03

So my dad, my dad's Puerto Rican, so I seen him on the baseball diamond several times. You know what I mean? You know, we love our baseball.

SPEAKER_05

So so my next question is is what made you decide to finally go to the marathon? The 26.2, you said you ran a ran a half marathon, but what was the the moment that was like, okay, I'm going for it?

SPEAKER_03

So I'm running, I found my my tribe in terms of like uh run crew, right? So give me one second, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_05

No problem, no problem.

SPEAKER_02

Listen, I'm I live in a brown and they're renovating the house next door to me. And when I tell you, like, I work from home, there's like saws going off and like just crammers.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, I'm and I'm cool with the guy who's the foreman, and I'm just like, bro, like can you give me 30 minutes while I'm on this, you know.

SPEAKER_04

I can't tell him I'm on a podcast, you know what I mean? Right, right, right, right. No, no, I love it. I love New York, man.

SPEAKER_03

Listen, Brooklyn gonna Brooklyn, 10 times out of 10. Yes, it is listening.

SPEAKER_05

I was there, I actually stayed there, I was there for like three years when I was doing the show last OG. So I stayed in Crown Heights, man. I love Brooklyn. I love that show. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_03

I was just talking to my wife about that show.

SPEAKER_05

Last of that show. Yeah, yeah. So so you were saying as far as what was the moment that you finally said to yourself, I want to do a marathon.

SPEAKER_03

Listen, I told myself that I wasn't gonna run marathons. I love the half marathons. Listen, I love half marathons, right? Like the training doesn't take over your life. Yeah. You can run it fast, you can run it slow, you can have a good time with it, right? You can bounce, like you don't feel like a truck hits you, you know, when you're done. So for like a good two years, I was just like, nah, bruh, I would run like six, seven halves a year. I'm like, I'm good. Nice. And then um, I just uh, you know, somebody was just like, listen, man, like run, you're from New York, you're born and raised in New York, you gotta run the New York City marathon. Like you gotta do that, right? So, you know, New York Roadrunners, I did my nine plus one, and it was the best and the worst thing that ever happened. Um please elaborate.

SPEAKER_05

And for those that don't know what the nine plus one is, you can play.

SPEAKER_03

The nine plus one program for New York Roadrunners here in New York is you know, you run nine races with New York Roadrunners uh within their organization, and then you volunteer for one, and then you get an automatic uh entry into the New York City marathon, and you don't have to go through the lottery. You're automatically in, all you gotta do is pay, and then you're good, right? So that was my nine plus one. And I did that uh in 2017.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

And it was the best thing because obviously you're born and raised in New York. The New York City Marathon is the biggest block party in the world, right? Like to run the streets that you grew up on and see like I it doesn't matter what neighborhoods I would go through as I'm running the New York City marathon, I would see people that I know and see familiar faces, and everybody's cheering you on, they're tracking you, whatever. So best. The worst thing is that is because New York City being your first marathon is it you will get hooked, bro. You get hooked. Yes. That that energy and that vibe in New York City uh for the marathon is undefeated, bro. Yes, it is. Second to nine. Take that energy, stick it in my veins, give me an IV for that. I like if I could, I live for that. Like, literally, I live for it. Um, you know, it's funny, we're laughing and joking, but like, you know, people think that I'm a serious person all the time. Like, I'm not like super smiley, smiley. But I got all my friends, my runner friends, they have this joke. They're like, you want to see Dre smile? Go see him during marathon week. Yeah. Leading up to a marathon. Because everything is like the last, your last speed workout, like your last easy run. You know, you know that it's coming, right? Like you know that the show is about to happen. And like that feeling is I love race morning, I love, you know, sitting in those corrals.

SPEAKER_05

Like so before we before we get into the to the race, let's let's talk about the training. Like, what do you think? Um, you you you said you were a consistent half marathoner, um, and making that jump to a marathon, what how did you see the training in um change you?

SPEAKER_03

Um you in order to complete a marathon, you really have to um develop habits of consistency and like resilience. Because like if you've never run a marathon before, every time you do a long run, that is your longest run that you've ever done, like the first time you did 15 miles, the first time you did 18 miles, the first time you did 20. Like, to get back up after that and continue to run, like you need some grit, like we talked about, like the mindset, right? Um, but I'll be honest, man, like my first five or six marathons, I thought I was training well, but I was looking back on it, bro. I was winging it. Like I was winging it. Just go on with the flow. Listen, I I was doing what people said that I should do. I ignored a lot of stuff that people said that I should do.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um, I kind of like, you know, I was just winging it, bro. It was like, okay, if I get 220 miles, then I'm good. Like I didn't take track work seriously. I certainly didn't take strength work seriously. Like I wasn't lifting. Like, you know, I was eating whatever. I was thinking, like, yo, if I'm running 40, 50 miles a week, I can eat whatever I want. Yeah, good luck with that. Right, right, right. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05

So it's like so what would be the, what would you say is the hardest, the hardest thing that no one talks about as far as training? Is it like juggling the schedule? Because when you when you train, like those miles can interfere with your personal life, your business, and you got a child. So I got three kids.

SPEAKER_03

Uh what was the hardest part for you? Um, fuck them kids and and my responsibilities. Let's see respectfully. Um I get it. I get it. Listen, this is this is something this this like running marathons is something that you don't find time for. You make time for, right? So it's like, like I said, when my kids were young, I'd put them to bed at like nine, nine, eight thirty, nine o'clock, and then I'm running at night, whether it was, you know, 10 miles, whatever, I come home, I go right to sleep. And I was making that time. Uh, but the I say to answer your question, it's really the diet. It's really, it's that's the hardest thing for like me. It's like the I can run. Running for me, I love. Listen, if I never ran a race again, I would run five to seven miles until I can't do it no more every day. Like I'm told, I love the running, right? Like the running's not the problem. But it's like it's the rest, the recovery, and then the the the diet. Like I've finally gotten a hold of it. Listen, bro, I love beer. Ah I love beer. Yeah, that's a tough one. I just, I just talked to, I just had a conversation with my wife. I'm like, I haven't had a beer since the day after the New York City marathon. And before that, I hadn't had a beer since my birthday, which was in May. Because it was like, bro, empty calories, bro. Like, yeah, you need the carbs, but you know, I can polish off two or three of them with dinner, you know. Like, I'd love me some beer.

SPEAKER_05

I had a friend of mine, she had a she had a famous sort of quote, she always said when we would have dinner, is that she don't drink her calories. And I was like, that's so such, it's so simple, but yeah, but she would she would she love to eat. She loved eat.

SPEAKER_03

Alcohol, listen, alcohol, beer, fruit juices, I had to cut all of that out. And like the diet. So like even a segue to that and like not drinking your calories. In 2018, to kind of help my running, I went vegan. Because one of my run coaches was like, the science behind it is that your body spends coffee.

SPEAKER_05

Coffee's vegan, right? Coffee's vegan as well. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

But like your body expels so much energy digesting food and meat, especially. Like, beef can sit in your system for two weeks, right? And my run coach was like, if you take away the meat and the dairy and the byproducts, your body will start to fuel and you'll have enough energy to run these miles and keep pushing and keep pushing. And, you know, it was one of my lifestyle changes in terms of like just like I said, the getting healthy, smoking cigarettes, the family, you know, whatever. Right. But going vegan did two things. It showed me that what I was feeling in my body, I wasn't how can I say this? I wasn't feeling good. It was just normal to me. Feeling bad was normal.

SPEAKER_05

Ooh, that can go that, man. That can go deeper than food, brother.

SPEAKER_03

It does. It does. But it's it's it's a lot of this running stuff is transferable to other parts of your life, right? So once I went vegan, I started feeling that runner's high with like food. Like my body was detoxing and cleansing every day. Beautiful. Right. So I started feeling this high. It was like all the toxins were out of my body. All of this stuff. And uh, you know, we're talking about drinking calories. It changed the way my body processed alcohol. I can't even drink alcohol these days. Like, if I took one drink, I'm cooked because my body can't process the alcohol since I went vegan, right? So that's why like I leaned into beer. It was like, yo, I go someplace or I want to have a few beers. Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_02

You know, but you know, it's really just the diet, man.

SPEAKER_03

Like, that's the hardest part. It's like I have a son who's 12. He was just actually on the today show for his baking.

SPEAKER_05

Go, go ahead. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

But this is the bacon vegan. No, absolutely not. I stopped being vegan. I stopped being fully vegan during the pandemic. Okay. Okay. My wife makes a mean mac and cheese, fam.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, oh no. And listen, listen, I I'll fight somebody to the death if you try to stop me from eating mac and cheese.

SPEAKER_03

My wife's mac and cheese is so good that my mom made a mean mac and cheese, but when she tasted my wife's mac and cheese at Thanksgiving dinner, she was like, I retire. Come on. No, she didn't. What? She retired mom's mac and cheese. My mom just gave, my mom just was like, Bent the knee. That's you goaded at that point.

SPEAKER_05

You go your jersey is in the raptors when you talk about mom sit down. Like, yes.

SPEAKER_03

That's crazy. So I needed some comfort food during the pandemic. I was running, you know, I I couldn't run enough miles. Then, you know, we was cooped up in the crib.

SPEAKER_05

Man, um, I could imagine it in New York. California was a little different, you know, um, but I could only imagine how that dealing with the pandemic and how running was so essential, you know, uh to that survival of that particular time, man.

SPEAKER_03

I could I could only For me to take 60 minutes to just, you know, I'm home with the kids. Yeah. I gotta work, I gotta homeschool the kids. My wife has to work, you know, we're taking shifts, homeschooling. For me to get out for 60 minutes to go for a run was gold during the pandemic. I'm sure of it.

SPEAKER_05

I'm sure of it. So my next question is let's uh let's go to race day. It's your first, it's your first marathon. You know, there's nothing like your first, it's nothing like that experience of the New York marathon. Take me to like race day as far as like the beginning, like the corrals. Now, now please elaborate on that sort of the energy of the day.

SPEAKER_03

It it was just uh it was pure nerves and anxiety in that corral. Right. Uh one thing that, and I know you know about this, like one thing that nobody really talks about is how overwhelming the amount of people that are near you, right? Because like you develop these habits in your training where it's like, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that, you know, I'm gonna stretch, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna, you know, do whatever, but try doing that with 10,000 other people around you. Correct. And like your mental, right? Like, yeah, how can you focus on the little things that you need to do when you've got 10,000 people next to you talking? And, you know, I'm one of those dudes where it's like, yo, don't talk to me. Yeah, don't talk to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like my friends know, listen, I'll throw up the Pisan, I'll give you DAP, we'll hug, good morning, all of that. But I'm not don't I'm not here for no conversation.

SPEAKER_05

I'm the loner runner for sure. Like I'm I'm a I'm a Ronan. Like uh I'm a Ronin when it comes to like running clubs. Like I'll come in, run maybe two or three times, and you may not see me ever getting.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. So like that's overwhelming, bro. Like it's a lot. It's a lot. And it's New York City, so you know, you're on top of that Verizontal Bridge. Yep. Um, but you know, I like I said, I'm from New York. It's a view of the city that you don't really get to see. You know, like unless, you know, like, especially on foot. Like if you're driving over that bridge, like, yeah, you see it. But like to be on snap. And I tell you this, man, when when they play that Frank Sinatra, yeah, it's New York. And that canon goes off. So now it's the Frank Sinatra, and then it's the Jay-Z Alicia Keys, New York, you know, Empire State of Mind. Like those are that's when the goosebumps start happening. But back then it was just that Frank Sinatra, right? And it was just like you heard that canon go off, you see the helicopters over the top. Yeah. And you're just like, yo, what is happening right now? It's the Super Bowl. I tell people all the time running is the only sport where the elites, the professionals, and the novices, we all on the same course. We all start at the same joint. We run the same road, we're on the same, you know, whatever. And um the the like. The the the best feeling in the world was I'm coming off that Verizontal Bridge and right before, you know, the first wave goes, it's the elites that are going, right? So like the Kichogis, the you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. As they're going by on Fourth Avenue, you just hear this roar of the crowd.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

They're cheering for the elites.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

But in my mind, I'm like, that's what's waiting for me.

SPEAKER_04

Yep.

SPEAKER_03

Yep. And that first time you come off that bridge and you hit that Fourth Avenue and the city just comes alive.

SPEAKER_05

And you're just like, it's, it's, it's, I, it, it's something that um I I try to explain every every time I speak to someone about the New York Marathon, how um there's no other experience. Um the the fanfare, the the energy, the support, the loyalty, the legacy. Like there's people that have that religiously just come to cheer, let alone those that are participating or have been inspired.

SPEAKER_03

People that live along the route, make a day of it. Yes, and invite people to their house.

SPEAKER_05

Yes. No, it's a it's a you like you said earlier, it's a huge, it's the biggest block party in the world.

SPEAKER_03

And New York is known for block parties. You lived in Brooklyn, right? How many block parties did you just stumble upon?

SPEAKER_05

Yes, right? Like Oh, just just just coming off the train and all of a sudden, oh wait a minute, this is a block party.

SPEAKER_03

You're you're gonna go to the bodega to go get like, you know, your bacon, egg, and cheese or whatever, and then you like turn around and there's a full-on block party with bouncy cap. Right? So the biggest like New York, Brooklyn, Queens, where we're known for block parties. That's like a local thing. But this is, and it's on TV, right? You know how you know how many times I get a text like, yo, I just saw you on TV, right? Like, yep, I saw you pass by. And um, so like that part, and then the part where like you come off that 59th Street Bridge and you hit first Ave, and another wall of sound, right?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, bro. Yeah, no, first Ave is special to me. See, I I I grew up in Harlem Wagner Projects. Gotcha. So we run right by the projects where I grew up at off of first and the 120th. Uh I used to live right on 117th and first. Oh, get out. I lived there for four or five years. Yep. Yeah, yeah, but listen, all my Maldonados is over there. Uh, they're in the Bronx as well. El Badio, El Badio. You already know. Yeah. Absolutely. So my next question is as far as let's get to the nitty-gritty of the race, the that mile 20 moment. Um, that the part of the race where the wall happens. This is your first time um, you know, in this race and probably hitting these type of mouths. Which mouth was it and what were the thoughts that were running through your head?

SPEAKER_03

So it was mile, it was right before mile 20. Right. So you're on first half, right? You're going up. So, like right before you get on that third Avenue Bridge. Okay, going to the Bronx. Going to the Bronx. Going to the Bronx, right? I felt something in my hip. And I was like, uh, that ain't good.

unknown

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

That ain't good.

SPEAKER_04

Check engine light came off. Right.

SPEAKER_03

But the pro because what they don't tell you is be cool on first halve. Don't let first av hype you up. Don't let maintain your pace. Like, you can't, like, that crowd and that energy will put a battery in your back, right? And it's like, whoo, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're running, you're running. But if you don't maintain that target pace and you don't like run that smart race, so I hit, I hit that. It was 18. I felt it in my hip. And then going over that Third Avenue bridge cooked me. Because going up the bridge is hard, it's very steep. And then when you come down on the other side of it into the Bronx, you gotta bang that left in front of that school, and then you gotta bang the right. So it's just like, yeah. And if you're caught up in the crowd, which I was caught up in the crowd, when you hit mile 20, it feels like the wheels are falling off your bike. Right. It feels like like the brakes just stopped working and you're going downhill with no brakes on a bike. And it's like you're trying to like steer this thing to like, you know, and then coasted in. At least I'm gonna coaster over the guy. You think so? Right. It's like if I crash, I'm gonna try to crash into something soft, you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But yo, like that thing hit me, it hit me in my hips, it hit me in my ribs, like I started cramping because I started panicking. Yeah, like I started panicking, like, oh yeah, what's happening? I didn't feel this in training. Right, right, right, right. This never happened in training. I don't know how to deal with this, right? Yeah. And I had no idea about fueling during the race. I had no idea. You was raw dog in life. Listen, raw dog in a marathon is the worst thing you can do in your life. Like, so, you know.

SPEAKER_05

So yeah, Mal 20 is where the wheel, the wheels fell off. Um Yeah, because you're you're you're yeah. And my next question is in regards to that Mal 20 moment, is like, I often refer to like ayahuasca as a uh as a similar a similar experience to marathon running and that Mal 20 mindset, uh, where you have to deal with it could be what you didn't deal with at work last week or the bully from eighth grade that will come out of nowhere and have a conversation with you again.

SPEAKER_03

Listen, I tell people all the time between then that last 10K. Listen, I got I got something with my last recap where it was like your brain plays tricks on you and you can't listen. Yep. Right? You can't. So let's talk about my last New York City marathon, which was just in November. I'm shooting for a 310 marathon, right? I'm not getting it. I'm not getting it. I already knew. I knew after the Bronx, after mile 20, 310 is cooked. Get out the window. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

It's a new race.

SPEAKER_03

It's a new rate. We in the threes. We in the threes. I had a plan A and I had a new plan A. Like the plan changed in the Bronx. Right? So from 20, from 20 to 25, bro. Like, I'm just, I'm fighting with my brain. Like, yo, we're not slowing down, slow down. We're not stopping, stop. We're not stopping. Like all of these thoughts are in your head, like, yo, just slow down. Like, it's okay. No one's paying you to do this, bro. Like you can relax. Like you can use all of that, right? Yep. And um in my mind, the only thing that I'm going through is like, okay, I see a guy in a red jacket. I'm gonna just get to him. Yep. That's my goal right now. Yep. All right. Like, I'm gonna, all right, I'm I'm past all my people in Harlem, all the run crews in Harlem. They gave me a little lift. Yep. I'm headed to Fifth Ave. I just need to get to Fifth Ave. Then I get to Fifth Ave and it's like, yo, I see a stop sign, I just need to get to that stop sign. And it was just, it was just a negotiation in my head every, let's say, 800 meters, 1,000 meters, to just be like, yo, pick a new goal. I just need to get there. As long as I get there, I'm fine. And then I choose something else. So it's like, I'm trying to like fight off these thoughts of like slowing down, quitting, walking. Someone's offering me a beer, and I'm like, yo, I'm really thinking about the beer. Right, right. I can use the carbs right now. Right, right.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Finding every rationale for it. Like, yeah, no, this is this is perfect for me. This is exactly what I do.

SPEAKER_03

Um, but you know, you just you're just fighting those demons in your head. And it's just like, yo, just make it to the next half mile, make it to the next mile marker. Like, and I did that from mile 21 to 26.2. I can remember crossing 26. And I say this every New York marathon to myself. You cross 26. That last two meters, 200 meters is uphill, bro. Like, you know. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. Who the fuck put this hill here, bro?

SPEAKER_04

And you gotta, and you gotta hit a turn.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's uphill and a turn. Yeah. Who put the fuck? I yo, you know how many times I've run this? You know how many times I've run Central Park? I know that hill is there, but I'm surprised at the hill every fucking time. And you can see it in the distance, and it's just like, I just need to get there now, right? So it's like that last 10K is like battling your brain, like battling your intrusive thoughts to just keep going, keep going, keep going.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, no, I I've helped, I've helped like 15 people run their first marathons. And sort of my my deal, aside from just training, but on race day, I run with them the first 20 miles. Mm-hmm. I I pace with them, I run with them. That last six is all you got. That 20. That last six is on you. It's a personal experience that I feel if you don't allow a runner to have that, they're gonna be. You're robbing them of the experience. Yeah, they're robbing it. Because it's you versus you. And it's not like when you have a group and you're running with a group, it makes, just like in life, it makes life easier.

SPEAKER_03

But when you out there and it's you versus you, that's when that's have you ever run, have you ever run with the pacers that they provide in the race? Yeah, yeah. I've read I've read with those. Yeah. Okay, so you know that pace group starts out nice and chunky and big.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, and you start seeing people peel off.

SPEAKER_03

My coach tells me, my coach tells me all the time, my road coach tells me all the time, do not pay attention to the dead bodies because you'll become one of them. Yep. You see somebody peel off, don't even look back. Like Yep. You'll turn into salt, bro.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because it's a it's a mental thing. You can you don't you can't even look at it. You can't even, you you really can't allow those sort of thoughts to creep in because Is he okay? I don't care. Yeah, it don't matter. It don't matter. And like that's the conversation we have at the Mal 20, every man for themselves. Every man for themselves. Um it's yeah, and you will, you will love me for it because I didn't rob you of your personal sort of triumphant moment. Um my next question is so how did it like you've you've you've ran several and in and for me, every marathon is is a different.

SPEAKER_03

I'm right behind you. I I I'm I'm I'm training for my 12th right now. Oh, okay, okay. Okay. I'm on my 12th right now.

SPEAKER_05

So so what did it express the feelings that you feel when you finally cross. When you finally get past that 10K, you've you've you fought your mind. How does it feel once you finally cross? So that first marathon, I cried.

SPEAKER_03

I cried because that last 10K was so hard. And you know, with before you when you run your first marathon, like the marathon in your mind is like this huge mountain that you're trying to climb, right? It's you make it bigger in your mind then probably it needs to be, or you're giving it the I you know, you respect the distance, right? Like I tell people all the time, respect the distance, right? So you're giving it its respect. And um, when you cross that line, bro, it's like everything that you did for the last four months leading up to that just hits you.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I think about every run, every time I went to bed early, you know, every time I lifted some weights, every group run, every track workout, everything kind of comes back to me in that moment. I was like, it was all worth it. It was all worth it. Everything. Like the wheels falling off in the Bronx. Yeah, right. But like, I still finished, right? Like, I still finished. And even my last one, like I said, I was going in for uh 310. I hit it in 320.

SPEAKER_04

Okay, that's still good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_03

Listen, yeah, first of all, New York is a hard course.

SPEAKER_05

It is extremely hard.

SPEAKER_03

I've run Boston, I've run LA, two very hard courses, yeah, right? So, like, you know, I'm trying to run 310 on a flat course, but 310 and 320 in New York. That's great. No, that's that's a good time. No book it no, I'll take it. Yeah. Ten times out of ten. I'll take it.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And it was it was my fastest New York City by uh by 20 minutes.

SPEAKER_05

Wow. I'll take it. Wow. Yes. Yeah, no, I'll listen. I I've I've ran it three times. I've ran in every time is has always been a joy. Um and I've always ran with with people. So it was always really cool seeing their excitement once they cross the line and sort of, you know, um have this this this moment with themselves that can't nobody take credit for. And I can't. How do you celebrate in that moment? Oh, me, listen, it I've celebrated in many different ways. Like, listen, we've I've I've went to bed immediately after, or I we've got a lot of people.

SPEAKER_03

No, I mean immediately after crossing that line.

SPEAKER_05

Like, what's the Oh man, it's it's a it's a it's a it's a conversation with myself. It's a it's a real pat on pat on my back, man. Like um, for me, I've I've always, again, I've I've grew up a loner pretty much uh, you know, most of my life. And I I have I'm friends with everyone, but I've always moved and traveled, so almost like an army brat. You know what I'm saying? Like, so I that's why I have so many friends, because I've always moved around. But with that being said, you still have there's a lot of um conversations you have to have with yourself just because you're in new spaces, you know. You can't, your your friends don't travel with you. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um so as soon as I cross the line, man, it's it's it's a it's a conversation with myself. And uh although I've been having it for four hours, uh that's time to wrap it up.

SPEAKER_04

It's the wrap up. It's the closing the the the Oscar music, the acceptance music is all.

SPEAKER_05

Wrap it up, wrap up. Get it out. And um, and it's usually a conversation to myself saying, I'm I'm proud of, I'm proud of me, man. Um in every race, there's different, you know, obstacles, whether they're physical, mental, spiritual. Um, every race comes with their own challenges. And you know, for me, that's why I run two times a year. I run in the spring and I run in the fall. And it's more of like my mental check as far as making sure I don't run from any of my stuff that's going on inside. Bigness. Yeah, yeah. So it like, okay, anything that I'm dealing with, it's gonna come out. It's gonna, it's gonna come up around between mile 20 and mile 23, never fails. Never fails.

SPEAKER_03

I like to light up a joint. Oh no, listen. I'm not listening. No, like as soon as they put that metal on me, running high, bro.

SPEAKER_05

No, no, I'm putting it in the air. I I'm not bad at it. I'm definitely.

SPEAKER_03

Recovery starts immediately.

SPEAKER_05

I've definitely took a tote at Mal23 in New York. Okay, yeah. That was kind of like my routine. As soon as I could tell 23.

SPEAKER_03

Your people was waiting for you. Come on, come on, come on. Come on. I already know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

That's that's that was my energy jail at the end. Um, yeah, yeah. Yeah, nah, man. Uh what talk about that walk though. Talk about the walk after you finish.

SPEAKER_03

No, no, no, no, no, no. Before the walk starts, right? Okay, okay. How many people have you cursed out because they're telling you to walk? Come on, you gotta keep moving. I'm like, yo, if you don't leave me the fuck alone, I just ran. Give me a second. Listen, I am dying here. I would like to die in peace. I don't need you now.

SPEAKER_04

We are like we are.

SPEAKER_03

They're like, hurry up, come on, go do this, go grab your back. And it's like, yo, bro, I will, I will, I will, I will hit you. Right. Right. You're 87, you look like a sweet old lady. Uh leave me the fuck alone. Keep removing. Keep it like, yo, and then the walk.

unknown

Yes.

SPEAKER_03

And then it's the walk. And it's like, you know, you're really doing 28 miles. Yes, you are. Yes, you are. You know you're really. That's like a 20, that's a 28-mile activity. Like, yes, it is. Yes, it is. And that walk, and everybody is just hurt. Everybody listen, I remember I used to work in Midtown, like right over there. Yeah. And what I used to do was I would leave a bag at my office. I would walk to my office and I would just have snacks. And, you know, I'd even have like at some point when I started getting into like the recovery boots, but I would have like a foam roller there. I have like my recovery boots there. And then I would go to like my gym that was there to go take a shower. Gotcha. And then like just chill and then, you know, whatever. But walking afterwards and like getting there, it was like, you know, no, I I those the guys that are the bicycle taxis, they running it up that day.

SPEAKER_05

They running it up because everybody is paying whatever like Earth.

SPEAKER_03

Well earned. Yes. You listen, this is the one, this is like the one day that your hustle, this is like your, this is that's their Super Bowl. This is the Super Bowl. No, that's a fact.

SPEAKER_05

That's a fact. Whatever you want.

SPEAKER_03

Huh. Yeah. Can you hold my bag? Can you hold this for me too so I can get up in this drink? No.

SPEAKER_05

So my so my next question is um how has running changed you as a person after finishing your first marathon? How did it how did it change you?

SPEAKER_03

Um it's it's crazy because it's just who I am now. Like, I it's it's you know, we talk about having an identity and like this, like this is just baked in now, right? Like, it I I'm a runner. It just is what it is now, right? Like, I don't need a race to get up in the morning at five to go run by six, right? Like, I don't need any of that anymore. Like, this is just who I am now. Like, like I told you before, if I never raced a day of my life again, I would still get up every day and run five to seven miles. Like, that's just who I am right now. Like it it changed me in in that in that respect. Cause it's like I didn't know I was gonna love it so much. Um, and like you said before, like you run twice a year, and it's just like it's a maintenance thing for me now.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Where it's just like I know that if I'm training, whether it doesn't matter, it doesn't have to be a marathon, even if it's a half marathon. I know that like I have certain things to do. And then my my other thing is is like I am hyper-obsessive and competitive as a person. Like, so like when I get into things, I get into things. Right. So like I'm I'm granular with the running stuff, like, you know, like little things now. Like I'm I'm a good runner, but like the the difference between my best 319 and this 310 that I'm chasing is like this big.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Like it's little, it's little things at this point, right? So, you know, I got up this morning, bro. I had, you know, I had a 50 minutes easy, and then I hit the weights, and I came home and I loaded up on protein and I make sure I'm eating right, and you know, it makes sense. Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_05

Coffee, coffee is is is, man, his story, you know, the situation that happened in the subway, um, due to him not getting the proper fuels, man, like that was an important conversation we had. Yeah, no, that was something that he was he was able to share and the importance of properly fueling, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Um And that's why I said the hardest part now is the the food part. Yes, right?

SPEAKER_05

Like exactly. Exactly. You know, it's important, man.

SPEAKER_03

It is. Got it to and it's like, you know, I had my my relationship with food changed. I went from being someone that like really enjoys food, like not that I don't enjoy food now, but I see it more as fuel now. Yeah, like if I want my body to be a Lamborghini, like I gotta fuel it a certain way. You know what I'm saying? So like that's the hard part. And like I said, my my son and my wife, they're here at the crib. They'll bake cookies at like eight o'clock at night for no reason.

SPEAKER_04

And it's just like it's like all again, again, we're doing this again.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yo, they let that's how you that's how you ended up on uh good morning today. You gotta let them cook.

SPEAKER_03

Listen, dude, uh Andy from Bravo, like tasted his cake and was just like, oh my God, this is amazing. And I was like sitting here watching it live on TV with like the tester that you gave me. Like, yeah, this is good. Yeah, yeah, it is good.

SPEAKER_05

All right, so let's get to this last segment of the interview, which is um the knees out speed questions. Um uh that's my that's my my running crew, the knees out coalition. Um, I kind of I kind of call it the loner crew. Uh just because everybody, we we're all kind of the same.

SPEAKER_04

We all we all like to run like individually. One or two maybe, but it never, never in large group. Like we the loner crew. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Never in large group. Like, yeah, two or three, maybe.

SPEAKER_03

Running solo is my default.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Right? But listen, man, you're from New York. You know what the community is like here, right? So it's like, but the running community is like really special here.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, no, it is. It is. Every time I come out there, I I link up a coffee and no name. No name. Yeah, nah. It's and for me to sort of explain what that is, I guess running is sacred and spiritual to me. You know, so I don't like a lot of energies. Yeah. I don't like a lot of energies around, you know, not to say around me, but connected. Just around. I'm very, I'm very close with every one of the runners. You know what I'm saying? And like it's like connected. If I'm running with you, I'm it's it's a brotherhood there. It's not just this, it's a difference, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Um for me right now, like I said, I've been running for 10 years. I'm kind of and since this running boom that we're talking about, right? Yeah, like I'm the OG now, you know what I'm saying? Same, same thing. And it's and it's one of those things where like, you know, people hit me in the DMs all the time, or like people like pull me to the side and be like, yo, like, what do you think about this? Like, can you help me with this? And I love to pass on the knowledge. Like, again, trick, you know, get get a runner to talk about running, like easiest thing to do in the world, right? So, like easy. So we talk about it, you know, and it's like I like, you know, um, I like, you know, mentoring younger runners or just like last the last couple of years, I've kind of helped people kind of through their first New York City marathon. Like, yo, yeah, you know, when you get to mile this, you're gonna do this. And then like when you get to, you know, mile 22, like don't focus on the hill. Like you don't, you know, just helping guide people and just, you know, um, you know, I run with a crew here in Brooklyn called Teamwork. Uh, we run Kings. Um, you know, Coffee is uh our brother, you know, with no name. You know, we're kind of like uh the Brooklyn crews.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And um, you know, it's like during the week, I'll run by myself, but on a Saturday with the long runs, like, you know, we sharpen the knives, you know what I mean? Like there's there's runners that are faster than me. I need them to help me get faster. There are people behind me that need me to get faster, and we all pulling, you know what I'm saying, and training. Yeah, everybody's training for something different, you know. Yep. And it's like, you know, whether you run in London or, you know, Tokyo or Boston in the spring, you know, everybody's on different schedules. But when we get there on that long run on Saturdays, it's like, but um, you know, like, but Monday, you know, during the week, it's pretty much like a solo thing, you know, speed work, track work, you know, tempo runs, you know, whatever. So, and it's funny that you said um Crown Heights, because I like doing my tempo runs on Eastern Parkway. Okay, okay, okay, all right. You know, so like it's just true, back and forth.

SPEAKER_05

I would always run from Crown all the way to Dumbo because I would go to uh I would I would train at Gleason's a lot. So what are you taking like Vanderbilt or Washington all the way down? Ah probably Vanderbilt. Washington. I don't know if I think it was Washington. Uh yeah, Washington. Because which one uh which street leads directly to the bridge? Bedford. I think it's Bedford. Bedford Abb. Because it's right, it's because I I just make I just go on the left side of the left side of the bridge and it's like with the bike lane. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's right there. It's right there. So okay. All right, so this these are these are one-word sort of answers. Of course, you can elaborate. Knees out means yes, and knees in means no. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_05

So the first question is during training, did you ever feel like quitting but still showed up for yourself?

SPEAKER_03

No, knees in. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00

Do you think everyone has at least one marathon in them? I want to say knees out, but I'm gonna say knees in because I just know people ain't got it.

SPEAKER_03

Right. Some people ain't built like us, bro. Like, this is not there's a reason why only 1% of the population has completed one marathon. Okay, one.

SPEAKER_05

And why is the biggest component of that? Like, my my belief is I believe anybody can do it if they have a strong why. If you have a why, then hey, anything is.

SPEAKER_03

I'm gonna send you this clip in the DMs, but there's this clip of uh Mike Tomlin, who just got, I don't know, he's not with the Steelers anymore, right? Yeah, no, he's a clip.

SPEAKER_05

He stepped down, he stepped down.

SPEAKER_03

He stepped down, right? He has this clip where he's talking to his team and he says, everyone is capable, not everybody is willing.

SPEAKER_05

Yep. Oof, yep. That's a fact.

SPEAKER_03

So I will literally watch that clip over and over a night before the marathon. Like, yo, are you willing? Are you willing? And I'll ask myself that. Are you willing to do what you need to do to hit this goal? Are you willing? Everyone's capable, not everybody is willing. So knees in.

SPEAKER_05

That's a fact. That's a fact. Okay, so my next question is is a marathon more mental or physical?

SPEAKER_00

It's all mental. Because if your physical is telling you to stop and you stop, that's mental.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Right? If you if you're if your mind, I tell people all the time, your body will do whatever your mind tells it to.

SPEAKER_04

Yes, it will.

SPEAKER_03

You just have to convince your mind that it's possible.

SPEAKER_05

Yep.

SPEAKER_03

That's it. If you convince your mind that running a marathon is possible, you'll run a marathon.

SPEAKER_05

It's done. It's already done. Yeah. No, that's that's completely correct. It doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_03

Four hours, five hours, six hours. The distance is the distance. Time doesn't matter. The goal is to go.

SPEAKER_05

The goal is to go. Time time. I always say time is to be identified, not measured. Yes.

SPEAKER_03

So um respect the 26.2. Would you run an ultra marathon? That's a good question. That's knees in, because hell no. Hell no. Um, 26.2 is enough. It is enough. Right. Okay. Right. I am 47 years old. I told you earlier in this conversation that I need to take as much time as I spend on the road training, I need to take that much amount of time to recover. So if you're telling me I gotta run for 50, train for 50 miles, 100 miles, what does my recovery look like? I don't have enough time. I don't I ain't got that. I got that. I ain't got that. I ain't got it. Listen, I'm about to run trail this weekend for like the first time. I've I'm a strictly a road guy, right?

SPEAKER_05

Oh yeah, I love see, I live in the mountains, so I I I train, I train in the trails.

SPEAKER_03

I've been in LA. I've been in LA where, you know, the Hollywood sign, like, you know, you do like that trek up there or whatever.

SPEAKER_05

You talk about running. Running, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So, like, you know, I know a bunch of fast dudes that, you know, that's supposed to be hiking, but these dudes, they running up there, right? Like these guys are no joke. Um, but I haven't really gotten into it. There's a bunch of spots here around New York, but there's a store here called Outlandish here in Brooklyn. And they, you know, they take people from the city and they uh take them to like different spots in and around like Jersey and Pennsylvania. But that's dope.

SPEAKER_05

Some of the real trail sort of in nature areas. Oh, that's dope.

SPEAKER_03

Kind of like a fresh air fund for people with money to, you know, shop for, you know,$300 trail shoes. But they but they invited me, they invited me. And I'm in the era of trying new things. And I'm like, if I get the invite.

SPEAKER_05

Like the thing that's enticing for Ultra Marathon for me is that a lot of them are in nature. So like that, I know I could get lost in that, and next thing you know, I'm at the end. So that's yeah, I I haven't dis I feel like I want to. I haven't decided whether when, but yeah, I I got I got I got at least one in me.

SPEAKER_03

One of my first run coaches, she's been trying to run that Havelena 100. The last 100.

SPEAKER_04

Like that's I don't know. 100 sounds, that just sounds insane. 50, I can I 50, I can't.

SPEAKER_03

I don't if 50. If if if if I have to see David Goggins on the course, it ain't for me. It is not for me.

SPEAKER_04

I'm in the wrong race. I'm doing it.

SPEAKER_03

I'm doing something wrong with my life. That's when I know that like something's wrong. Something's really wrong in my life. When I start running ultras, like I'm running and trying to heal from something. I see David Goggins, I'm at the run, I'm turning around.

SPEAKER_04

I'm turning around. I'm at the wrong way. All right, all right.

SPEAKER_05

Last question is Do you believe that running changes a person beyond the mouth? Yep, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03

Listen, man, you you will I tell people all the time if you have a problem or you're worried about something, go for a run. Because you'll either figure out the idea or the thought that will help you with that, or you will feel better about it just in your mind. Because stress and anxiety has a physical toll on you, right? So if you go for a run to burn off that negative anxiety and those negative feelings, you'll be able to attack that problem without that, and it'll take it away from you. So, like your problem solving becomes different. It's not an emotional thing, it's a mental clarity thing, right? How many times have you been on a run and you had you something just gives you an idea for something? Yeah. Because your feet are moving, you're meditating, you're in nature, you know, it's functional. Dude, I I was taught to meditate while running. And I'm in sit, I'm in a city, bro. Like it's nothing but concrete around me, right? And it's like I can get out there and I know an easy pace, I can just start meditating, I'll start praying, I'll start talking to God, things are going on. So it will change you because it's like you'll start attacking life differently.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03

And it's like if you know that you can train for four months, six months for a marathon, that delayed gratification that I'm gonna work every day whether I see results or not, because I know at the end there's a goal there, right? Like, you'll start to think about problems in a different way. You'll like take it apart and like deal with this one little piece and all right, cool, we're done with that. Because that's the way running is, right? It's one step at a time, like, right? One foot in front of the other. One foot in front of the other. That's all we gotta do, right? And it's just that little thing. So like mentally, it changes your brain to look at problems in a different way. Right? So, like whether, you know, you got kids, I got kids. It's like I go for a run, my my son does something stupid. How can I help him?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, right, right, right, right. No, listen, I I've I've done everything from problem solving to creating television shows. Um a run. On the on a run. If there's any sort of things that we have to break in stories or however the challenges that come with any of the entertainment stuff that I do, like yeah, no, a run is is the medicine um in the real conversation.

SPEAKER_03

How many times have you been on a run where you just needed to stop, pull out your phone, and write something in your notes because you got an idea. Oh, yeah, oh, all the time. Or you send yourself a voice note, right?

SPEAKER_05

All the all the all the time. It's every, it's it's it's I seek it. I seek out for it. I seek that sort of um spontaneous um, you know, uh uh combustion of an idea or a moment. Like that's what's really dope when you get into that runner's high and you'll you'll find yourselves in in chapters of your brain that you know you rarely get to read, you know. Um and that's that's what's you know, that's the same thing. And I think that's the change. That's the change.

SPEAKER_03

And it it also kind of will align your mental, your spiritual, and your physical. Like you will be one out there with yourself.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Right. And that right there, for me, like that's the that's the change, right? Like that's the that's how it changed me. Like everything is aligned. I know I can go out 45, 60 minutes at a time and just be centered again.

SPEAKER_05

Yep.

SPEAKER_03

I have that thing. So, like, you know, I told you in 2021 when my I had two brothers that passed away. They passed away three weeks apart from each other. Wow. Right? I don't even know how I got through that, but running was the thing. Yeah, like my wife would be like, Did you go for your run today? I love that. I love that. You know what I mean? Because she knew that that was that was my self-care, right? She knew that I needed that, right? She'd be like, yo, you ran today? Go ahead, man. Go, go, go get your run on. Like, you know, I know you need that. Because, you know, you're you're planning two funerals that and I'm the youngest. I'm the second youngest. These are my older brothers, right? Right. I didn't expect this. I was I was thrust into my dad looked at me and was like, You're the leader now. And I'm number six of seven. So I never in my wildest dreams thought that I'd be the one.

SPEAKER_05

It would fall on your lap. Right, right, right. All the way down to me. Right, right, right. You know what I'm saying? Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, no, that's tough.

SPEAKER_03

And my wife would just be like, yo, did you go for your run? Did you run today?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_03

Because she knew. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, no, it's it's it's that therapeutic. And I think that's what why uh so many people are finding uh running in it is their therapy, it is their solace, it is it is the thing that is is is a is waking people up, man. And um I'm I guess it I'm excited.

SPEAKER_03

My theory about the running boom is that when we came out of the pandemic, there was that was the first boom. That was the first wave. Like we're on the third wave of this running boom. But that first wave was people needed to imag to manage their emotions who weren't running before. Yep. But people like us, we were already out there, we had already system uh system built in to be like, yo, I'm gonna get out and go do this, right? But those people, they're the ones who influenced everyone that's in this running boom that's behind them.

SPEAKER_05

I agree.

SPEAKER_03

Because they're the ones who were like, yo, from the pandemic, I got X, I got this amount of clarity, I got this, it feels so good, it feels so good, it feels good, it feels and then everybody else was like, I need to get that feeling. I need to figure out where that is. So I I remember when running wasn't cool. I remember when people would be like, Why are you doing this to yourself?

SPEAKER_05

Man, same, same, same. I remember like the just the whole the just that's where the whole knees out came from, is I used to wear the running shorts. And everybody's like, why you got them little B shorts on? I was like, They're running shorts. Like, like I get I love I love half tights, right?

SPEAKER_03

Okay, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, um, listen, I live in bed style. You from Harlem. Try to go back to your hood with some half tights on and like see how the homies on the block looking.

SPEAKER_05

Like, I would get kicked, I would get killed early on with walking around with my running shorts on. Oh, yeah, but now it's it's I would get it from women.

SPEAKER_03

I'm running like to run in the bike lane, right? I'm in the bike lane. You come to a red light, I look over, there's this woman, she's hanging out the side of her whip talking about okay, legs. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

No, and maybe it was definitely the women that would that would always say something. Like, wait a minute. Oh, okay, legs. Oh, I'm just a piece of meat out there.

unknown

This is crazy.

SPEAKER_00

I'm not here for your gaze, lady.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, well, listen, brother, you already know we could we could talk running for another two hours. Yes, we could.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, we could.

SPEAKER_05

Everyone out there listening, please follow and subscribe, man. This is an incredible conversation, but this is another episode of Mal20 Mindset. Peace, y'all.