Mile 20 Mindset Podcast Episode 027 - Featuring Mary Flemmings

From Anxiety to Marathon: Mary Michelle Fleming's Inspiring Journey to Running

Introduction:  
In the world of running, each individual's journey is unique and inspiring. Mary Michelle Fleming's story is a testament to the transformative power of running, as she turned to the sport to combat her anxiety and ultimately became a six-star world major finisher and a two-time Guinness World Record holder. In this blog post, we delve into her incredible journey, the challenges she faced, and the lessons learned along the way.

The Beginning of Mary Michelle's Running Journey:  
Mary Michelle Fleming's introduction to running was not born out of a desire to compete but rather out of necessity. Suffering from anxiety and hesitant to pursue medication, she sought an alternative solution. With the encouragement of her doctor, who was also a runner, she began her journey by simply walking for 30 minutes a day. This small step laid the foundation for what would become a remarkable transformation.  
With the support of her friend Daphne, Mary Michelle discovered the Couch to 5K program offered by Black Girls Run, a community dedicated to encouraging Black women to embrace running. Initially unaware of what a 5K entailed, she quickly learned it was only three miles, a distance she felt she could tackle. The sense of community and support she found through this program made a significant impact on her motivation.

The Shift from Walking to Running:  
As Mary Michelle began her journey, she vividly recalls the moment that ignited her passion for running. During her first group session, she watched a fellow participant run continuously around the track without stopping. Inspired by the young lady's dedication and perseverance, Mary Michelle asked how she achieved such endurance. The answer was simple: training. This moment marked a turning point for her, as she realized that with commitment and consistency, she too could become a runner.

Achieving the First 5K:  
Mary Michelle completed the Couch to 5K program and successfully finished her first 5K race. The experience was exhilarating, and in her words, she thought, "I might actually enjoy this running thing. It's dope." This newfound love for running encouraged her to set higher goals, leading her to explore longer distances.

The Transition to Longer Distances:  
After completing her first 5K, Mary Michelle did not rush into the marathon distance. Instead, she gradually progressed, running a 10K and eventually a half marathon. Her journey continued to be fueled by inspiration, particularly from her friends who participated in the Dopey Challenge at Disney World—a grueling event where runners complete a 5K, 10K, half marathon, and full marathon over four consecutive days. Witnessing their achievements sparked a fire within her to one day take on the marathon distance herself.

Training for the First Marathon:  
In 2019, Mary Michelle finally decided to tackle her first marathon, a leap that required a significant commitment. She learned quickly that training for a marathon was vastly different from training for shorter races. The increase in mileage demanded a well-structured training plan, which she meticulously crafted around her busy life as a single mother and high school coach. Balancing parenting, work, and training was no easy feat, but Mary Michelle's determination to cross that finish line kept her focused.

Key Challenges in Training:  
Throughout her training, Mary Michelle faced numerous challenges, including time constraints, the risk of injuries, and mental battles. The hardest part was managing her tight schedule, which often involved squeezing in runs between her daughters' activities and coaching duties. Yet, she persevered, reminding herself of the vision of crossing the finish line.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:04

What's up, y'all? It's your boy Alan Mal Donado, and here we are with another episode of Mal20 Mindset. Uh, this is a running podcast for running enthusiasts, elite runners, novice runners, and those that love supporting the runners in their lives. Um, I got an incredible guest, an incredible runner, um, six-star world major finisher, um, two-time Guinness book record holder. Um countless challenges. I mean, has has won her age group six times. Um Welcome to the show, Mary Michelle Fleming. How are you doing today? How you doing?

SPEAKER_00 0:48

I'm doing well. How about you?

SPEAKER_03 0:50

I'm I'm doing excellent. Um, I'm so so excited to have you on and and and just pick your brain about running, man. Um you've done some incredible things. Um starting with the majors. Oh my God. I'm I'm I'm four. I'm four out of seven. Uh I'm running Sydney in August. So uh excited to finally get to that, to that, complete that journey um as you've done. And um, I believe you're running Sydney coming up, right? I believe it's a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

I'm trying to get into Sydney. We're we're hoping that I'll get in as a teacher. So Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

If I get in, it'll be amazing. They said, come on, you got it, you got it, you got to. You got to. Um so let's let's start from the beginning. Like, where did where did your running begin? Was it for fitness? Was it for for a mentor? Was it what were you going through at the time? Like, what started you to say, you know what, I'm I'm gonna run. And I also say this, as a black runner, um, early on when I first started running 10 years ago, boy, was I looked that crazy. Um, so I would love to know how did it all start for you and how did this thing blossom.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

Okay, so I first started off, I had no aspirations of being a marathoner. Okay. I was suffering from anxiety. I had anxiety and it it came on pretty strong, and um, I didn't want to do the medicine route. And I'll be honest, you know, I'll tell anybody today, if you need to do medicine, do what you need to do to get better. But for me, I wanted to do something else. And my doc, my doctor was actually a runner. And he made the suggestion to me to, if I didn't want to do medicine, he said that, well, why don't you try walking? How much do you get out and do, like exercise every day? And I'm like, not much at all. And he was like, Well, what do you think about perhaps getting out and maybe walking 30 minutes a day and just see what it does for you? And I was like, Okay, I can do that. So I got with my best friend and I told her, I was like, Daphne, you know, I'm gonna start this journey with walking. And she was like, Okay, cool, we'll do this together. Yeah, and so I was like, okay, cool. Well, she got on social media and she saw a group called Black Girls Run, and they were hosting a couch to 5K program. Okay. And she comes to me and she was just like, What do you think about learning how to run a 5K? And at the time I had no idea what it was. I asked her, Well, what in the world is a 5K? I thought it was five miles. I didn't know. Like, I was really. I didn't know what a 5K was. But what I knew is I didn't have any desire to run five miles back then. And so she was like, Girl, no, I think it's like three miles. And I said, Okay, well, okay, let's go check it out. So we literally joined Black Girls Run in our local chapter, and we did the Couch to 5K. I think we came in in like week three, and it was a 12-week program. Okay, okay. And so I went, and the first day we went out there, I think we started like 45 minutes of just walking. And uh there was a young lady on the track that just ran the entire time we were there. And I got kind of fixated on the fact that this girl was not stopping.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

She was just running.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

And we were walking, and I saw her, and I just, I was like, dude, she ain't stopping. Like she just continuing to go. And um I stopped her when we got done. I said, How did you get to a point where you could do that? And she was like, Do what? And I was like, You just ran around this track and didn't stop. And she was like, I just I trained. And I was like, Well, how do I get to that point where you're doing what you do? She said, Are you a BGR? I said, Yeah, she said, keep coming. Keep coming. And I said, I remember that day, I looked at her and I thought, I want to do what she's doing. Come on. Now I hadn't seen a longer distance. I was new to all of it. Um, I didn't run track in high school. Um, so when I saw her doing it, I was just, I was just so impressed that she could run for 40-something minutes. Right. And so I did the couch the 5k program. I showed up every week. I was just deadlocked in. I was deadlocked in. Like, I was serious. I want to do what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

We the same age, so I'm like, I know if you can do it, I can do it. Right, right, right. Let's go. So I showed up every week, and at the end of the um program for Black Girls Run, they held a 5K. Yeah. I ran the entire 5K. Come on. I ran the 5K. And um I just remember looking and uh seeing myself finished at 5K, and I was like, dude, I might actually enjoy this running thing. Wow. It stuck.

SPEAKER_03 5:19

Wow. Okay, so so you got so you got the 5K. Um you knocked that out the part. Where do you get this idea to run 26.2 though? Like a 5k, like how did you how did you get to that level? So you got the 5K, you you discovered that it wasn't five miles, I'm sure. I discovered that, yeah. I discovered it. So how did you get to this jump from 5k to 42k?

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Yeah. So um it it was a while. It took a while. Like for me, it wasn't a the next year I decided I wanted to run a 10K in the next year. I started that 5K journey in 2013. I didn't run my first full until 2020.

SPEAKER_02 6:06

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

So I I I didn't, I never, I just never I didn't have a goal to run a full. So everything came for me from inspiration. I will tell you, I um at some point I did decide to do the 10K and a half. And there was a group of five of us who went to Disney World. And I think it was in like 2016 is when we went.

SPEAKER_03 6:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

And they ran what was called a Dopey challenge.

SPEAKER_03 6:31

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what dope? Yeah, I know, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

Yeah. So there were four women. It was it was four other women, and it was me. And I was going and I was proud because I'm going and running my five and 10K. They were going to run Dopey, which was a whole nother level of running.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

And I remember seeing them the first day they put the metal around their neck, they got the 5K. The second day, day they did it, 10K. Yeah. The third day, they did the half. And I was like, y'all ran five, a 5K, 10K, and a half back to back. And you about to go run a full the fourth day?

SPEAKER_02 7:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

So when they got done with the fourth day, they came back and they had six medals.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

They were shining on you. They were shining on the ball. Yes, so they were shining. I ran, I ran the Orlando Marathon and felt naked with my one medal as I'm watching everybody walk around.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

Everybody else got six medals. So we out here taking a picture. At the end, I got my two medals and they got six. They winging from left to right. Yeah. And I remember sitting back. But what was different for me is I had never studied the full distance. I had never studied the 27.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

When we got to Disney World, it was it was predominantly white people running. So to see four sisters walk up there and get that done and said, I want to be like you. So again, I'm inspired. And I was like, one day I'm gonna come back and I'm gonna do this. I don't know when it's gonna be, it's not gonna be right now. But I said, I want to come back and I wanna do this. And I meant that. And so um when I came back home, I said, I'm gonna train and I got ready to do, I think it was the half at that point.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

I wanted to focus on the half and really like lock in.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

And so um I got to the half, and I tell people, I'm not like, I'm not fast. My first half, I think, was a 330. And there are people who run fat fools faster than that.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

Um, you know, I it just was what it was. My first half, I was just trying to understand the distance of 13 points.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

And so um I ran it and I came back and I was training and training. And then I got to, I think it was 2019, and I said, I think I want to try my first full. Okay. Okay. Okay. I said, I think I want to try my first full. And I, you know, at the time I didn't understand what the training was gonna require. Because I'll tell anybody right now, it's not the day of the race, it's the training that goes before the day of the race.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

Commitment is crazy.

SPEAKER_03 8:56

And that's and that's my that's my next question. So when you when you decided to do this marathon, let's talk about training. Like what did it, what did it teach you, and what did you get yourself involved in in regards to training for your first marathon?

SPEAKER_00 9:09

Okay, so the first thing that I had to realize is training for a fool is different from a half, because you're doubling your mileage at that point. And your Saturdays or Sundays, whatever day you want to do your long runs on, they are gone at this point because you're gonna be training consistently, week after week after week after week after week. And so um, I had to sit down and I had to get an actual training plan. And at the time, I had three daughters at home with me, single mom. So I'm mommying. Like wow. I'm I'm literally, kids are at their cheer practice and I'm out there running. Running on the side. You having the micro, you haven't to manage. Yeah. And I'm coaching at work. So I'm a coach at the high school that I teach at. Oh, wow. And so during sometimes during my lunch prep periods, I'm walking, I'm going around the school, just trying to log those miles because you're logging anywhere. When you're first starting, you might be logging 30 miles a week. Yep. We're not even gonna talk about when we get into majors what that looks like. So I'm trying to balance being mama, being coach, being teacher, and do these miles. And sometimes it got to be a lot. I'm not gonna kid you, but the vision of being able to cross that finish line kept me going. Yeah. And so um, though the training, I had to set it up on a schedule every week. And I really had to like write down, figure out what's gonna work. And I had to stick to that schedule because the time was so limited.

SPEAKER_03 10:32

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

And there's so much time you have to invest that you have to figure out.

SPEAKER_03 10:35

So what was the what was the hardest part of that? Was it managing the schedule? Was it like injuries? Was it the mental battles? Like, what was the what was the hardest part of training?

SPEAKER_00 10:45

In 2019, it was the time. Time. It was the time. Gotcha. Yeah, because that balancing was no joke.

SPEAKER_03 10:51

Uh, I I adopted I adopted my nephew in senior, it was his senior year when I did it. And I I lived in parking lots. Yes. I lived in parking lots. So I can imagine trying to train for a marathon while juggling in. I just had him, and you got three. I had three kids. I had three. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's you deserve a medal for that as well.

unknown 11:20

For sure.

SPEAKER_03 11:21

For sure. Um, okay, so so let's take me, take me to race day of your first marathon. Like you've you've done the half, you've got that under your belt. This is the first time that you're gonna tackle this. And which marathon was it?

SPEAKER_00 11:37

It was the Walt Disney World Marathon.

SPEAKER_03 11:38

Oh, you did the Walton Oh my, yeah, listen. Uh I went back. I did it. Yep. So what were the feelings or what was what was going through your head race day and you going up and finally about to tackle this big obstacle?

SPEAKER_00 11:53

So I had done a 22 and a half mile run before. And and the intention of that, the reason why we did that is because we wanted to let's work out those kinks of that 20-miler. Like we're not going to allow this wall to hit. Let's go ahead and do that. So I had done a 22-miler. But the the hardest part about that race is we got to Orlando, Florida, and they started talking about the weather was gonna be hot. So now I'm coming from running in 50-degree weathers, which is still kind of warm, 40 degrees. Now I'm showing up and it's 80 degrees in Orlando Orlando. It's 80 degrees. So they they got all these. So we're, I think we got the black flag that day. So they got the different levels, and I think it was black. So it was so, it was so warm and humid, they were gonna have to actually move our race up an hour earlier. So and Disney starts at the crack of dawn as it is. So we're having to be up there at 3 45 to start at 4 30, which I was grateful for. We're going early, but it's early in the day, and it is still humid outside at 4:35 o'clock in the morning. So for us, they were coming in before we even got started and said this is not a PR race. Please be careful. If you need to exit the course, please do. And this is your first marathon, and you've been all these warnings. Do we need to pull out right now?

SPEAKER_02 13:18

Like, I think I didn't get it. Severe health warnings before the start. But hey, have fun, guys. Have fun.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

So, yes, it was, it was, it was, it was scary, not because of the distance, but because of all of the weather uh issues.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

So our first marathon, it was 80-something degrees. So we showed up kind of nervous. We showed up kind of nervous.

SPEAKER_03 13:39

Yeah. So, so when you, I guess, describe those first few steps of you starting the race, and it's like, okay, the roller coaster begins. Like, what were what were some of the feelings that were going through your body at that particular moment? Um I was I was ready.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

Mentally, I was like, I'm ready. Yeah. I'm nervous, but I'm ready. I had done the work, I had done the training, I did my miles, I had hydrated, I had eaten, I had done everything that I could have done. Yeah. So I showed up and I was like, let's go. I'm ready to see what this is all about. I've heard about it, now I'm fixing a wild. Let's go. Let's go.

SPEAKER_03 14:15

Let's go. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Yeah, let's go. I was I was nervous, but I was kind of hyped. I was okay.

SPEAKER_03 14:20

So let's get it, let's get into the nitty-gritty as far as that Mal 20 moment. Every marathoner and every race is different, but it comes to a point where a part of the race where everything in you, your mind, body, and soul, begins to attack you and begins to tell you to quit, to stop. Or, like I like to say, that eighth, the bully from eighth grade all of a sudden pops up in front of your head. What was that moment for you during this race? Or if there was one?

SPEAKER_00 14:50

During the Disney race, I got to mile 20. I said, damn it, I'm doing running. And I lost. I did. I know why. It was, it had gotten hot, the sun was bending. Listen, people had been passing out, and I was just Wait, wait, wait.

SPEAKER_03 15:08

You said people had passed out already.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Like you passed out. Like literally, we were seeing people, like they were having to provide aid to people on the sides. And I, we were at 20, it was hot, people was passing out. They were still saying, be cautious, it's hot. I said, Then I'm done running. And I meant it. I I did not run at all the last 6.2. I didn't. I was okay. I was okay. I was like, I'm gonna finish. Yes, yes, I'm gonna finish, but I'm done running. My first marathon, I did not run it all the way through. And I tell anybody, we walked the entire last part past two. When we hit 20, in my mind, I was done running. I think one but I was running, and it was a wrap.

SPEAKER_03 15:51

It was a rap. I mean, if I see somebody, if they if they carry people off in girdies, I think I might I might I might want to slow down too. I think I'm gonna.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

It does something to you mentally.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

And by this time, I think it's like nine, ten o'clock. Some like it's not early anymore. We at the end now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was over it. I was over it. And it wasn't that I didn't think I was gonna finish, it's just that I wasn't running no more.

SPEAKER_03 16:18

Yeah, no, I got you. So, so my next question is how did it feel to finally cross the finish line after you've seen dead bodies sprawled on the way?

SPEAKER_02 16:29

What how did it feel when you finally crossed the finish line?

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Earlier this year, I had a video that I played back. I sent it to my daughters and I said, Y'all look at me right after I got done with the marathon and uh my first marathon. And I my word for word, I said, it's done, and I ain't doing this no more. I was like, it's a wrap. Y'all can have this distance because I was like, this is foolish. Like, why are we running 26.2 miles? This is crazy. I I just was like, I don't know why people do it. I don't know. I wasn't impressed with the training. I wasn't impressed with the run. Why are we still doing this? I have my one medal, it's a wrap. I said, I'm not doing this. Okay, I'm not doing it anymore.

SPEAKER_03 17:13

I'm laughing, I'm laughing. I'm I'm laughing so hard just because, for one, that's usually how everybody's over it. As soon as you cross the finish line, you got this enjoyment. I did it, but you like, I don't want to do it again. But as I'm laughing, I'm just recalling all of these running accolades that you've accomplished. That you've accomplished that lasting five months. That post-run clarity, boy, it'd be it'd get you every time. It'll get you every time. So, all right, uh, so I would love that, so piggybacking off of you declaring you never doing this again to you, you've accomplished something that only two women, two black women in Arkansas have ever done, which is complete the majors. Yes. How do you how do you go from how do you go from, hey, you know, I have this shit, that's it, y'all. That's it. Grand opening, grand closing, to you doing something that 0.1.000000, I don't know the exact number, but so far, few have done it. How did you get from that moment to that?

SPEAKER_00 18:38

I think what happens is I'm very much a person who watches what others do in terms of the sport, and I'm easily inspired by some things. And so when I started to learn about the whole major thing, because in 2020 at the beginning, I didn't even know. When I say I didn't really study the sport, I really didn't initially. And it wasn't, it wasn't really popular either.

SPEAKER_03 19:02

Like you couldn't find like clips on social media, like it was the wild wild west. It was like you learned as you go. So no, I I definitely know.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Absolutely. So, what I think happens is somebody in our run crew talked about Chicago. Like, I didn't even know that we had members of our run crew that had actually run some of the majors prior to that point. And I think what happens is after COVID, when you started creating these group me systems and you create um ways that we can stay in touch with each other, um, you started to see more of other people's journeys. So I think what I did was I was able to see like other people and what they were doing, even in our run club where I didn't, I wasn't able to see it at first. And so when they released Chicago's lottery process, I was like, hmm, what is this? What is this whole Chicago marathon? And why is it so, why is it so big on social media right now? And that's when I begin, I began to learn about the majors. And um, so I was like, you know what? I said I wasn't gonna do another full, but you know, now I feel like it wasn't. Yeah. And so what I ended up doing was I went and read about Chicago, and then I applied, and I was like, if I get in, cool, if I don't, then no. And I got in.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

So I go and I run Chicago. I go through my training season in the summer, I run Chicago, do pretty well with Chicago.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

Um, and then the next year, no, later that year. So I have a running coach. I think it's important to have a coach with this running thing. Um, because I needed to understand how to run these marathons beyond just the numbers.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

I needed to know how to run the numbers. So I got a coach, and my coach got me plugged in for Boston. So for me, Boston was my second world major. And once I got into Boston and I experienced the black unicorns and I saw what it was like to run that course, yeah, and I saw all the people on the sidelines and they were cheering, and all of the people who stopped you and was like, oh my goodness, you ran Boston. That's when the majors became a priority for me. Wow. It wasn't until after I finished Boston. Wow. Wow. And uh so I got into the.

SPEAKER_03 21:18

Yeah, which one were after? Please, please go down. You do you do Chicago, you do Boston, and which one do you do next?

SPEAKER_00 21:24

So I do Chicago, I do Boston, then I get back into Chicago again in 22. I run Boston, I run Chicago a second time. Yeah, and then 23 loads. I think in 23 I ran, I ran no, I go back and I run Dopey. I forgot that. I do Dopey in 2022. So I go back and I run all four races because I said one day I wanted to do it. So I go back in twenty two and I run Dopey and then I run Little Rock and then I run Boston in twenty two. So that was three marathons in the beginning of 2022. Yeah. Yeah. Then that fall, I run Chicago. So that gives me four marathons, I think, that year. And then I come out of 22 and 23 loads. So 23 is when it all hits because in 23, I get into Berlin. Then I get into Chicago. They are two weeks apart. And then I get into New York. So I run, I get I so we go into 23 and I got three marathons loading and sit for si a six-week time frame. And that's when this whole marathon thing changed for me.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

Yeah. Because now I gotta I I've got my coaching and my coach is like, are you sure you want to do these three? Like it's gonna take another level of you to do these three. I said, well, you know what, let Phillip, let's go. And so um we have to switch up our training because now it's not gonna be just running three marathons back to back. It's gonna be running three marathons back to back, but also traveling and also trying not to get injured in the process.

SPEAKER_02 23:01

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

Because um I'm I'm a little heavier runner, like I'm not the little woman, like it's not that. It's not that. Um, and so, and I'm not the best about stretching before and after. So I had to kind of change what I was doing, like my whole mentality had to change because now I'm about to take this huge challenge on and take all these races on, and uh, we've got to make it through the summer of training, and then we've got to deliver in the races. So my my coach comes to me and we set up this whole training program. And it's just like, okay, you're gonna go to Berlin and you're just trying to get it done. You don't have to try to do anything incredible. Berlin, we just want to check the box. So we check the box of Berlin. Then we get to Chicago. I wanted to try to pee our coach was like, absolutely not. You got New York on the back in the background. Right. So I get to Chicago, I run it easy again. This is my third Chicago. And then here comes New York creeping up like a big bad wolf. Let me tell you. Oh, New York, I felt like New York was staring at me and saying, bring it. And it was by far the hardest race I have ever ran in New York.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

Really?

SPEAKER_03 24:09

Really? Absolutely. Yes. Really? And why? Because I've I've ran New York three times. I've read New York three times. I New York is crazy. Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_00 24:19

It ain't that many boroughs and villages in the world, but they in New York. If there's a lot, listen, if we got 1,999 in New York and they're right there ready for you to run them. It was the toughest race I've ever had in my life.

SPEAKER_03 24:35

Wow. Wow. You know, the the bridges, the bridges are are are definitely intense, um, to say the least. The fanfare is barred bar none. Um, yeah, no, New York is New York is uh, I always tell everyone they have to experience New York at least once. At least, at least once. So it was your difficult difficult uh uh marathon out of those. Um you run New York, and then what where do you go after that?

SPEAKER_00 25:00

Well, let me tell you about New York real quick. So New York, so when you talk, when people talk about walls, so walls change for people. So when you first start running, walls are where you you're trying to tell, trying to convince yourself you can keep going. After you've ran 10, 12, 15, 20 marathons, a wall becomes when you have the mental um fight on whether or not you can finish the way you want to. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

So for me, a wall hit big time in New York. And I, you know, I remember like, again, I I never thought I couldn't finish New York, but I I I was battling in my head, can I finish it the way I want to? Yep. Because my body is telling me this is your third marathon. You're not gonna run it like you would on fresh legs. My body was telling me that's not happening today. But I was fighting with my body that I gotta, you know, no, I'm trying to perform on these on these heels and these bridges. And my body was saying, no, you're not, not today. And so I can remember getting to mile, I'm I'm okay at the beginning because it's a little downhill at the beginning. But I got to mile 16 and I started walking. And I was like, uh-oh, this is early to start walking. Like I'm at mile 16 and I'm just like, it's like I'm running out of gas. Like, I feel like I'm I need to switch to intervals at this point because I just don't, I don't have the full tank anymore.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

And uh I was just making my way and I saw some people, some friends that I knew I was, I felt like I was faster than coming past me, and I was like, you losing it. You losing it. And so I was like, ain't no way this is happening. No, it's you know, I just was like, not in New York, but it was it was whipping me. It was, it was. And my body, I I didn't want to listen to my body. Like I was like, no, we have to still push. And my body finally just said, no, we don't. No, we don't. And so I'm I'm I'm making my way. Um, I'm walking, I'm running, I'm I'm switching the intervals. And I get to mile 20 again. And at mile 20, I made the decision. You know what? Just finish. Just finish. And I think I got to like mile 24 and I picked up the phone. I FaceTime my coach. Now he's down there running. He's already ran, gone back to the hotel, change clothes, and thinking I call him on FaceTime, and I'm just like, this is stupid. It just was crazy. So I was having my moment. So you was in the Bronx at that point.

SPEAKER_02 27:27

At midnight 24, you in the Bronx. Yeah, yeah, you in the Bronx.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

I'm there and I know I'm close, but this race won't end, and I'm ready for it to be done. These these little heels ain't stopping. Like, when does it stop? And so I just I was on the FaceTime with him and I was like, this is crazy. I'm struggling. And he was like, dude, he was like, You at the end, suck it up, get to the end and finish all the things and don't stop running. I was like, Well, we passed that because I'm I've been in the for the last two miles. And he was like, dude, get it, get yourself together, get on off them folks' road. And I was just like, dude. And he was like, get off the dream. And I just was like, Phil. I was like, dude, I like I'm I'm like losing everything. And he told me, he said, I never will forget it. He said, You need to run like new edition is at the finish line. And I was like, Oh, let's go then, let's go. Oh, it's like, and my next kid, it don't even matter. Not even for Ronnie Bobby, Ricky, Mike, Rally, honey, are you about to run this the way that you wanted to? And I just, you know, I ended up just trying to kind of finish it in a decent time. But I had to make a second, I had to make a second phone call because I have another strength training call. And I was like, I had to have two because one of them, my run coach is no nonsense, and he get over it.

SPEAKER_02 28:48

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:49

My strength training coach is just like, you ain't got nothing to prove. It's all new.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

He was a little more softer, right? Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

He's the softer version, and I needed the softer version for a minute.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

And so, you know, he he's just like, come on, just finish, hell. You you did it, you did it. Right. And so I called it. I'm not gonna lie, running in that park at the end was the last longest mile I ever seen in my life.

SPEAKER_03 29:11

Oh no, that's when you when you finish the walk from the finish line to when you exit the marathon is hell.

SPEAKER_00 29:21

And I once I got that medal on, I felt so good. But I was like, New York is the this, I love the crowd, but this course is the devil.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

And it was just, and to this day, New York has been the absolute hardest race I have ever ran. And I'm trying to get in for a second round. Come on. I need another.

SPEAKER_03 29:41

I need a round school in New York. I I feel that like I see, I ran my first marathon, and it was the most, it was about 15 people in this marathon. It was no fanfare, it was a rinky dink race, and I broke my foot on mile 22, and and it was it was the most painful thing I've ever experienced in my life. I finished and it kicked my, it kicked my butt so bad that that's when I decided I was going to run four in five months. So I ran New York, I ran Miami, I ran Disney, and I ran LA in those five months. So I know the the challenges of running these back. Not as not as in three weeks, though. Like that was that's that's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. I can imagine how New York was was was on you because you had just finished two other ones two weeks, two or three weeks prior. So I I I feel strongly that you're gonna do way a lot better your next time in New York. Because New York is funny. I want New York. New York is New York is fun. The bridges and the hills are are treacherous, but man, um I've I've I've like I said, I've done Chicago, I've done Berlin, um, but New York by far is is still my my favorite. My favorite.

SPEAKER_00 31:05

Was it your hardest, you think?

SPEAKER_03 31:09

Do you think it was hard? I was so not I was so naive on even running marathons. I'd even, I it was, it was, was it my it was my first marathon. Or no, it's my it was my second marathon. So nothing was nothing has been harder than my first one because I ran with a broke foot. So nothing like that nothing compares to that one. Um although there were heels and all these other things, um, I had a, I had a, it was, it was actually, yeah, I didn't really feel it. I didn't really feel that it was this this this difficult sort of course because I had no clue. And I'm a person that I don't look at the courses, if that makes like I don't any merit that I don't really know, I don't I don't want to know I gotta I gotta deal with it regardless. So I I I like to experience on a day. I don't want to get my head about anything about the course. It's what happens, happens. Um so yeah, no, but oddly enough, Chicago was was probably one of my roughest, roughest marathons ever. Really? Yes, but that had nothing to do with physical. I lost my phone at mile 12. Okay, and I had no music.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

So you ran unplugged, and that was the issue.

SPEAKER_03 32:34

It was whoa. Whoa, whoa. I was not ready. I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't ready for myself. I feel like I wasn't it had nothing. My body was fine. I was walking. I don't never walk. I was walking, I was pouting, I was, I did not, I was over the race. I said, I don't feel like doing this. I don't want to do it. Like I don't, I wanna do it. I just don't want to do it. I'm I'm just mobbing up the it was, it was, it was Chicago was hilarious. It was a it was a fan of mine's. I don't, I I apologize to him, whoever if he ever sees this. He was like, hey man, ain't you the dude from the TV? I was like, man, I miss me with all that. Like I was so like I was so pissed. I was like, man, I ain't got time for all that. Uh but Chicago actually was probably one of my toughest. In Berlin, weird, weirdly enough. In Berlin's flat. Why did you why was Berlin tough? Dehydrated. Dehydrated. Yeah. We started, we started later. It was similar to like the Orlando, it got hot that day. It was like 80 degrees or something like that. It was ridiculous. And I didn't take any any heed to that. And I'm running. And by mile 14, I'm just sweating way more than I usually sweat. And by mile 14, I just started feeling sleepy. And I said, wait a minute. That that that's that that's not good. If I'm I should not be sleepy and running at the same time. That's not supposed to go together. So um at the end of it, I found I was extremely dehydrated. I finished it. Uh, but when I got to the end, both of my legs cramped up. My legs never cramped. Both my whole body felt like it cramped up. I was laid out on where they they give out the water. I was laid on the table and I said, please forgive me. It was like, yo, this is and I was drinking cups of water and it was like a, it was going into a black hole. I was I drank about 10 of them and it was it couldn't doing nothing. It was doing nothing. Um and yeah, I had to, yeah, I had to basically like sit, sit for like 20, 30 minutes and wait for all the cramping to stop.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

Like, like to stop. What year did you run Berlin?

SPEAKER_03 34:47

Ooh, uh what year was it? I'm trying to, it's up there. Uh let me, I'm gonna go check. Hold up. Um 2024.

SPEAKER_00 34:58

24. Okay, yeah, you were the year after me. We had a very similar experience. Oh, really?

SPEAKER_03 35:04

Yeah, it was hot. It was hot. And and we started late, like we didn't get out to the, we didn't, we didn't start running until like 11 o'clock.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

Uh-huh.

unknown 35:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:13

Like it was. Well, it wasn't that late for us. Okay. Okay. But it definitely was warm that year. It was ice. And we started late.

SPEAKER_03 35:19

We started, we started extremely late, which was was was fascinating because I'm like, I'm used to running at like 7 a.m. Like we're in the afternoon. The sun is right above us. And and I took off because it was flat. It was flat. That's what everybody does wrong in Berlin. You go come come off too fast. I came out too fast. And yeah, it was, it was by mile 20, I was walking and I was like, I I don't I don't want to do this. I don't want to, I don't want to do it. But I will say, I did um my I just finished running Vegas and um that was the first race I ever tried to PR and I I got a 330. So uh congratulations. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm looking at sub-three uh this year. I'm aiming for Barcelona and then I got Sydney. So I got two shots at going for that sub-three. But um, but yeah, no. Um I your your your story is is incredible. So let me let me ask this last question. Um, how do you think running has changed you outside of the sport?

SPEAKER_00 36:26

How has running? You know, one thing about it, we talk about doing all of these marathons, but I think that I've learned life is truly a marathon and not a spring from this. And much like the running journey, you know, every day is different, every race is different. You can walk in and you can be as prepared as you possibly can, and something in a race throws you a curveball and you have to adjust. And that's life. You know, life throws all kinds of curveballs at you. Um and sometimes you can easily navigate them, and sometimes you can't. Sometimes there's a struggle with it, but you have to adapt. And so this process has told taught me that you also have to work for things, you have to be committed, you also have to know that people watch you. People are paying 10 paying attention to you that you don't even know. People know who you are, and you don't have any idea who they are. People are inspired by you daily. People use you as a gauge for whether or not they're doing well. Um, so this journey has taught me so much about life. Um, I'm grateful for life. I'm grateful to even be able to do this. I'm grateful for being able to move my limbs. Last year I was in a booth coming out of London. I was in a booth and I had to pause, and then I was able to resume my running season. But there are some people who have to pause and they can't get back to running. They have to give it up. I'm grateful for being able to still run. I'm grateful just for being here. You know, some of my classmates aren't here. I'm glad to not only be able to do this, but just be able to be here, inspire, and to just be able to accomplish dreams outside of running and inside of running. So, this this journey has truly taught me that, you know, life, you know, you sometimes have to go with the ebbs and flows of life, and um, you have to be grateful for all that's being given to you. And I truly am grateful for it all. I'm grateful for it all. That's good and bad.

SPEAKER_03 38:25

That's beautiful. That's beautiful. And and and what would what advice would you give to someone that is on the fence, that is considering running a marathon? What would be your biggest tip to them? Go for it. Go for it.

SPEAKER_00 38:42

Go for it. Um, you know, you won't know unless you try.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

You won't. And um, you know, it's it's a journey. And I promise you, it's one of those journeys that once you're able to achieve it, you're proud of yourself. You're proud of yourself. And and I always tell people, don't be messed up about people and their time. Like, don't watch other people and their in their journey and look at it and say, you know what, they're doing their marathons in two hours and 21 minutes, and they're doing theirs in four, but I do mine's in six. You know, I pace all the time. And when I pace, I choose to pace what they call the back of the pack. And I do that because I want the six hours. I've even done a six and a half before. Give me the six hours, the five forties, the six thirties, because I want to be there with them as they go through this journey, you know, where they start off nervous and they are going through the process of every different emotion that comes with running 26.2, including the overwhelming feeling when they finish.

SPEAKER_01 39:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

You know, so I'd encourage them to go for it. Go for it. Enjoy the journey, give it what you have to give. And then when you finish, be excited and be proud because you finished the way you wanted.

SPEAKER_02 39:53

Come on.

SPEAKER_03 39:53

All right. Come on. So we're gonna do this last speed segment. It's called our knees out speed questions. Uh, that's my that's my running crew, the knees out coalition. Okay. Um so there's one-word answers, but you can always elaborate. It's uh knees out means yes, and knees in means no. Now, did you ever think about quitting during training, but you still showed up for yourself? Knees out. All right, all right. Did you do you believe that everyone has at least one marathon in them? Knees in. Okay, okay, good, good, good. Yeah, yes. It's fascinating how so many people have to pause at that question. I'm like, everybody, wait a minute. That's all right.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

All right, so is the marathon more mental or physical? Oh, knees out. It's more, it's more mental. I'm sorry. Mental.

SPEAKER_03 40:55

Okay, would you would you run, so you ran marathons. Let me ask this one. Would you run an ultra? Yep. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 41:06

One same, same, same. I'm I'm on the I'm on that same boat. I'm on that same boat.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

And listen, it can be 26.5 miles. And I'm gonna call it an ultra and I'm gonna take it.

SPEAKER_03 41:17

Right, right, right, right, right. All right. So, do you think running can change a person um outside of the sport? Knees out. Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. Well, listen, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you so much for your time. You are a true inspiration. Um, your your story, your journey um is wow, uh in in finding out your mother of three as well, single mother. Uh, I was raised by uh a single black woman, and she is my superhero, and I'm sure you are a superhero to many as you are to me. Um, thank you so much for your time. This is another episode of Mal20 Mindset. Everyone, please follow and subscribe. Peace, y'all.