Disrupting the Status Quo: Bob Simon on Trial Strategy and Firm Growth | Ray Lakhani & Adam Warren

He is a trial lawyer by trade, but a disruptor by nature.

In this episode of Open N' Raw, hosts Ray Lakhani (Raw Law Media) and Adam Warren (OpenJar Concepts) are joined by Bob Simon of The Simon Law Group. Bob is known for pushing the boundaries of traditional legal practice, bringing a fresh, aggressive approach to trial strategy and law firm management.

Bob breaks down what it takes to build a modern firm that doesn't just play the game, but changes the rules. From building a powerhouse team to leveraging new technology in the courtroom, this episode is packed with actionable advice for any attorney looking to scale.

Connect with the Guest: The Simon Law Group: https://www.thesimonlawgroup.com/ Bob Simon: [Insert Bob's preferred social link if available]

This Episode is Powered by Lawyer.com: A huge thank you to our partners at Lawyer.com for sponsoring this episode and the Open N' Raw booth at the National Trial Lawyers Summit. Whether you are looking for legal help or growing your firm, they are the partner you need.

About the Hosts: Open N' Raw is hosted by Ray Lakhani of Raw Law Media and Adam Warren of OpenJar Concepts, bringing you candid conversations with the leaders disrupting the business of law. Ray Lakhani / Raw Law Media: https://www.instagram.com/rawlawmedia?igsh=ZWFkcTBtZTZ3d282 Adam Warren / OpenJar Concepts: https://www.instagram.com/openjar?igsh=MTdvZTAwd21rdWN5aQ==

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Welcome to this new edition of Open and Read with your hosts Ray Lakani and Adam Warren. In this episode, we are thrilled to have Bob Simon of the Simon Law Group, the Bourbon Improof Podcast, and so many other platforms that are moving the legal industry from marketing to intelligent case acquisition to fighting the good fights in the courtroom and so much more. Let's get into it.

SPEAKER_03 0:36

I'm Bob Simon. Um, I've been sober for 12 hours. Are we allowed to use that? Yeah, of course. Okay, but it's actually less than 12 hours. Okay. No, Bob Simon. So I'm a trial lawyer by trade. I started my own firm in 2010 with just me. I was the backroom office guy, the copy guy, the intake guy, the trial guy, the discovery guy, all those things. Now I have about 20 lawyers, three different states. Um, did it all from just grassroots marketing. We've never done advertising, but we've done very, very smart, what I call like branded marketing, just to be a little bit different. Oh, and JusticeHQ, which is a mobile app where all the lawyers in the community, anybody in the legal industry can get together. I mean, you guys should be on there if not already. And it's just helping people grow together, all the legal events, masterminds all on one digital platform from your phone. Attorney Share was to be started as a referral network to help people get access to cases as quick as you can. Now it tracks the lead management, the status of those cases. We have integrations to push in from intake and once to update once you refer the case to another person. The media companies is Justice Team Network. I do my hallmark showing that's bourbon of proof. Um, hence the uh the admission before this show started. But it's only a problem if it's a problem. What else I got going on? Uh, the conference, this we're at Laddie Gras. Uh 1400 people registered this year, so it's huge. Um, more will show up. You know, people some people never register and come.

SPEAKER_04 2:02

Which well, I noticed I couldn't get a spot in the lot today. So holy cow really parking, people are parking out in the neighborhood. Wow, yeah, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 2:09

It's crazier than because it wasn't like that yesterday. And you know, the cool thing is this year is there's I think like 60% of the people here, it's their first time. Wow. My first time. Your first time? It's amazing. It is, it's I recruited him, Bob, just so you know. I mean you put out that reel within like 15 minutes. Oh, dude.

SPEAKER_02 2:32

That's what we're doing right now. It's gonna go up today. Oh, really? In full competitive, like it's gonna look fully produced, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:38

Nice. Well, uh those of you that are watching or listening today, um get to the lawn to get your legends gear branded with your logos, the logos that are there with the sports team and donate to LAFD. It's uh this tonight's gonna be a donation to the LA Fire Department. We're gonna have victims of the fire that are gonna be there, along with that. We brought down a whole station of firefighters, station 79 in LA. Um, and Diplo is gonna honor them on stage. Um, it's gonna be very, very cool. But we want to raise money and awareness to help the fire victims, LAFD, and then there's a charity auction for the the Tesla that they're auctioning off. Um and all they that charity 100% goes out. It's one of those ones where you don't need they're not executives getting paid in the thing, it's for all going back to families to support them when they have a child that's terminally ill that mom and dad can take off work to be there with their child.

SPEAKER_04 3:29

Bob, and this is all um I don't want to say on brand because what you're not talking about there is for your own personal branding, but you're you're always a people's advocate. I know I follow you uh fairly regularly on social media. You've been very outspoken about what's happening right now in our world, in our country, and in our state. Uh, we see it a lot. Um, what what drives you to do that? You have so many businesses going on, but yet you're uh still this constant educator and constant voice of clarity for people, not just attorneys, but people.

SPEAKER_03 4:10

I think the reason is is everybody that has like a microphone through their cell phone, you I think you have a unique opportunity to help a lot of people. And sometimes it's an educational thing. So it's why not use that tool to help people either change mindsets or to understand what's really going on. And look, I'm passionate about that. Like I'd love to cut, I'd love to do 20 views a day, right? It's because I have so much things that I want to get out and tell people. Um, and you have a unique ability, so it's like you used to be influenced by what was on your television or the book that you read or the newspaper. Now you have social media and it's free. And like if people aren't taking advantage of like growing their brand and helping people, and look, you got to stay true to it. And somebody came to me yesterday and he was like, You got to stop doing all the political posts because you're losing your audience. I was like, No, I'm gaining my audience, it's different. You're finding your people, yes. I was like, I don't want folks that don't resonate with what I talk about, and I get a lot of people chirping on there, and I I actually love the negativity because I go in there.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

Literally what I live on.

SPEAKER_03 5:15

I just go in and like comment, and then they then all of a sudden I can see them watching my story.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 5:22

A lot of people don't understand those story insights. Uh we see you. We see you.

SPEAKER_03 5:27

Um, days pop. Like we watch.

SPEAKER_04 5:31

We watched. I watch it all a little too obsessively. It speaks though that you do it regardless, it doesn't surprise me you got that kind of comment. Um, you do it anyway because it's it's you being authentic. And that's really been uh a kind of a running theme of every interview we've done so far, is they all seem to boil down to authenticity. And so if you're giving lawyers who are watching this um some advice, uh what do you say to them about being themselves and start it instead of trying to be everyone else that's in their market, maybe copycatting and just be yourself?

SPEAKER_03 6:11

It's be true to who you are. So it's I always say, like, what did you have like? What was your purpose when you were a kid? What did you have fun doing? And like, if you had to pick your perfect life, what would it look like? So I would say start there, work backwards. When I teach trial, like ad, it's like think trial, work backwards. That's how you build a case with a career. Think where you want to end and build blocks to be able to get there and be intentional and be thoughtful, but be yourself. So yesterday we had Alex Smith on, who's the quarterback for well, with the 49ers, the Chiefs, and the Redskins. Well, the commanders now, they were the Redskins then. One thing he said really resonated with me was he was drafted when he was 20 years old. And he was like, Imagine going into a locker room, be the number one pick, and people want you to be the leader. I mean, you're the starting quarter, but you're in there gonna play. And he's like, It's massive imposter syndrome. And he's like, I got in there and he's like, I started saying what I thought other people wanted to hear, and he's like, after a while, he's like, I just wasn't myself, and now he's like known to be one of the greatest leaders in the locker room. He's like, I just I just wanted to be myself and talk to who I am. Because if you start trying to remember things to say because you heard somebody else say it, that's hard to keep up with mentally, right? And it's also you're not true to yourself. Um I think look, man, if you were just having that's why I started Bourbon Approof, because I just want to have a conversation with people in the realest moment. Sometimes they need a little bit more social lubrication to be able to talk, and then they start being real and you find out who they really are. And why I took Bourbon Approof on tour this year is I'm going to different cities and talking to people all across the spectrum of life. And I think you have a commonality over if people sit down and actually have a conversation, especially over maybe a little bit of alcohol, you can solve a lot of problems, you can have a lot of commonalities and break down those barriers because I think people that are so stuffy and uptight and just want to do what other people think, want to hear and say, they they don't do well. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 8:04

I got it, I want to back towards this. So you obviously don't know this, but I I work with Seth Vader out of Georgia. Oh, love it, yeah. And so this is where I first even learned of you a couple of years ago.

SPEAKER_03 8:15

I like this shirt. What is this? Rails or something? It's really thin. I like these thin like overshirts. Yeah, I it's um from Zara. Oh, Zara, Zara, Zara has my or my wife loves Zara. I like to get a package every day. Yeah. Um, but their European stuff's really good, too. If you go to Europe, that's better. It's better, yes, yes. I like that one. All right, thank you. No dead fashion cut.

SPEAKER_02 8:33

It's gonna be the fashion cut. So Bob I made a I made a piece with Seth, and I was like, he's he isn't drink. And so I was like, all right, let's make a piece about you not liking alcohol. So I made the hook or something, I forgot what it was, but it triggered a bunch of people. But you popped in the comments and you go, but it makes some of the best memories.

SPEAKER_03 8:52

And some of Oh, I remember that post, yes.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

And now you have bourbon approved. So I want you to talk about, you know, in in general, um, because you just mentioned sometimes like social lubrication, the alcohol can bring people out. Um, is where's the balance between that? And I'm I'm asking you genuinely out of curiosity as a young man because I do struggle with understanding where my limits are.

SPEAKER_03 9:13

So but you have to understand where your limits are. Like I I have unique superpower where I I don't get hung over, but I just stick to one consistent alcohol, and I could probably have I mean 30 drinks a night and I'll be fine the next day.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:26

Um I can vouch for this with my experience on bourbon of roof. I mean, I never saw it. I outside of my family did train me very well, but I know my limits, but I know my limits. So, like you know, when you start to feel you feel like a little slurred, go home. Get some water and go home. And you can't do it in a public setting. You know, people remember the drunk person falling over and getting a little too gropey. Yep. Um, we have a blacklist here at Lottie Gras and the stuff that we do. Oh, if we have if there's any record of anything like that, you're gone. If people want to cause drama here, you're gone. Um so Seth, um he's a catcher. He grew up as a catcher in baseball. We had a conversation about this because I you could guess people's position if they say play baseball. So you're a catcher. Let me see the size of your mitt and it's like, okay, that's what you do. But I said you should um your billboards in Georgia, because I see the one I go there in Atlanta, you should just put up I'm the master of law, law very small, and then put beter. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:26

Hold on.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

That's been the right thing.

SPEAKER_04 10:29

That only took one second between delivery and land. I just want to say, like, oh, you gotta visualize the billboard.

SPEAKER_03 10:35

Oh, master, and then at law, and then beter. Everybody would sign up for those ads. Yeah. I mean, I would sign, I would go to a firm like that.

SPEAKER_04 10:43

I just want to go back to bourbon approof really quick and what it does for conversations. Um, the episode I did with you guys, I've got nothing but rave reviews on. But after the episode, I called Ryan Ronella and professed so much love to him. I don't know if he's ever gonna get a call like that for me again. I was like, Ryan, that was the greatest moment of my life.

SPEAKER_03 11:06

It's funny how often Ryan comes up in conversation. Every couple more brought him up that day. Um, so we're doing one of our good friends in New York next month on the 18th, mutual friend with Ryan and ours. And as you say, I have a very interesting bottle or two to share. You could you can cut this out, but I'll tell you guys. I got this special bottle, and it's called Two Bitches Bourbon. It has two kids to put two dogs on the basement because Brandon Hurley named his dog Ryan after Ryan.

SPEAKER_02 11:37

He named it after him.

SPEAKER_03 11:41

The name is Bond. It's really funny, and it's gonna it's gonna be my second part. They're just gonna laugh at it.

SPEAKER_04 11:46

So I want to tell you too that I I got a chance to meet uh Alex yesterday. It's my second encounter with Alex. Um, one time we were standing in a store in Manhattan Beach trying to look at um vintage Rolexes that we saw advertised on like Instagram, and we both showed up and the the trunk show was over. And he and I were kind of commiserating about it. And then I was like, it but at that time I didn't know who Alex was. It took me two weeks to figure out through my brain who he was that I was standing next to. And then he walks down the stairs yesterday. And I asked him to be on the podcast, he didn't have time. Uh, but he walked with me from here all the way down uh to to where the you know booths and things are. And one of the most, again, authentic, kind, real people, especially at a celebrity status that I had ever engaged, we talked about his injury, what it was like to come back after the injury. We talked about his kids playing football. He's just a real cool dude. And I was like, listen, I don't I'm not gonna be an asshole and ask you for an autograph, but what do you think about a picture? And I apologize if not. He's like, don't ever apologize for asking me for a picture. Totally, let's do it. And then he's like, I'm I am gonna sit down with Bob today. And I was uh it was not surprising to hear what he what you had to say about like his leadership skills, and he's just a real guy, you know, real, real human.

SPEAKER_03 13:08

And it's and you even, you know, not just lawyer or media, but you know, in football, you know, in sports, if there's not an authentic human being as a leader, those teams do not do well. And you can see because it permeates the locker room. And he is his show is called uh I think it's like talk about the glue, and because the glue in the sports is a person that keeps everybody together, right? The person that's the leader in the locker room that keeps people engaged, keeps people motivated. And it's the same thing in our industry. When he said it's like, yeah, he's like, Who's the glue in your locker? I know who the people are that that do that, right? And it's I that really stuck with me. See that? See what I did there?

SPEAKER_04 13:46

I did this is this is one of those interviews. Uh go ahead, and I have a question.

SPEAKER_02 13:51

I've been to a ton of conferences, and again, this is my first one, first time here, Megan as well. Uh, but this feels different than a lot of the conferences, it feels a lot more family friendly, I think. Can you tell me the reason or the thought behind that?

SPEAKER_03 14:05

Well, I selfishly try to create an experience that I would want to go to. Sure, yeah. Um, and I try to bring my family everywhere that I can. Look, man, you always have those core memories as a kid. And we try, I want people like kids are at school this week and they were saying, Are you going to Lotti Girl? I'm so excited to go to Lotti Girl. And that's what we want to create, not just like the experience for the attendees and the lawyers, but for their families. You know, because we want them to be immersed. Because I mean, being in law, especially a trial lawyer, it's hard. Sometimes you're not, you're, you're a little distant from your family, even if you're there, because you're you're trapped in what case you're working on. And we want our everybody in our circles to understand and be together and and be in one moment. So for me personally, when I go to other conferences, I don't do weekends because I want to be home for my family.

SPEAKER_04 14:54

God, it makes me so happy to hear that.

SPEAKER_03 14:55

And I like I will literally take a red eye there Saturday at like 2 a.m. at land, whatever it is. So I was like, well, if I'm gonna do a conference, I want to make it so kid friendly that they want to bring their kids and make it an event. So we have people that are staying here four or five days, right? Come in early or leave late, they bring their family. That's beautiful, probably. That was a big thing for me this year is to make a special area for kids where they could we saw that.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

Yeah, we both noticed that. That was huge, man.

SPEAKER_03 15:20

Beautiful. Well, so I want to ask you this to back to the. That was cool. See, I like that.

SPEAKER_02 15:29

So I've again I've spent a time with a ton of attorneys. You have a different personality, very family focused. I'm seeing. I and I know personally, I have a ton of friends too. There's a lot of attorneys out there struggling with balancing life with work. And um, it seems like you integrated it very well. For the ones out there that are feeling guilty too, do you have any advice on like what they can do or like how to get out of the guilt or what actions can they test?

SPEAKER_03 15:54

Just you know, ask like, why are you feeling the guilt? Like, is there something you can change to make it different? If you are feeling guilt because you're in an office until 7 or 8 p.m. and not at home, why can't you find a way to balance and work at home? Right? There's there's ways that you can do that. And I think if in if you're working at a firm and they demand that you be in the office or you set hours and work long hours at the firm, you're guilty being there from your family, it's probably for good reason. And that firm you has to change that mentality because how can you have good people that want to excel at your firm if they're not happy, if they're home, if they're feeling guilty where they are. So let we let everybody we couldn't work, especially our lawyers, trialers. You work from home, you need to have that balance. And because we know when you're on the road and you are away from your family trying a case, like you have to be there, right? And kids know, you know, mom's in trial, dad's in trial, they know what it's like. Um, like one of my best friends, Nick Rowley and Courtney Rowley, they're married, they're lawyers. Um, Nick's got 12 kids, and she just won trial lawyer of the year yesterday at Cala. Um she's a great trial lawyer, he's a great trial lawyer, and they take their kids everywhere. They will get on the their plane, go to this trial, that trial, they take them for a month. Hey, we're taking off for a month, kids. We're going to spend time in Montana, and that's their life.

SPEAKER_02 17:08

That's cool. Quite an entourage, too.

SPEAKER_03 17:10

Yeah, that's cool.

SPEAKER_04 17:12

Just a shift real quick, because I want to be sensitive to your time. And just two manual. Two questions I've got. Um one is you come across very humble, Bob, but I I'm wondering if you realized at what point in your trajectory that you started to become this industry leader that people want to listen to. And that look, you are walking through these conferences highly acceptable and approachable, but I doubt you can walk through a lobby without 20 people walking up to you. But there's a reason for that, okay? It's not just because you do Lotie Gras, it's not because you have charitable events and do great social media. Where do you think in your come up, maybe the last 10 years, when did you notice, like, hey, I've got some influence here?

SPEAKER_03 18:04

So I will tell you what had happened. I hit a bunch of verdicts in the mid-2010s for like a two or three year period where almost where people feel like it came out of nowhere, but it did. I mean, it was a lot of preparation to do it. And I was hitting massive verdicts, and I was giving away the secret sauce for free. And it was like people had never heard of this before. Like, why would he tell you how to win all these cases? And then we started letting other, I would recruit other lawyers who was just a straight personality test, like my partner Sebi Fisher. He's been with us forever, Eric Heath forever, because we recruited personalities who want to work hard and teach them how to do the best thing and then let them grow. So we were known as a law firm at that moment. Hey, if you want to go to the signal law group, you're gonna get a great experience, they're gonna put you in the ring. You're not gonna, it's not an ego-driven firm that I have to be at the top of the pyramid. And then we just started that's when it started to have this following, and that's what then I started being on social media, being one of the first ones on, just being funny. Then we did the first Lottie Graw, and it's like we're gonna do something that's about the attendees and make it fun and different and let people get up there and speak and then just give away the secret sauce. And that's when it started to grow, grow, grow. And then when COVID hit, I wasn't in the courtroom all the time because they were closed. So when you see when Bourbon approved really started and took off, when I exploded on social media, it's because that it was this it was the great slowdown, right?

SPEAKER_02 19:20

So I was took full advantage of full advantage, man.

SPEAKER_03 19:23

Because that's when I wrote my book. Like I did a lot of these other things. I realized, oh my god, there's a huge national audience that wants to hear these things. So I kind of get out of my little bubble, and that's when it happened, man.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

This is so this is when people slow down, you speed up.

SPEAKER_04 19:37

Well, but yeah, you also seem to master the pivot. And so this will be one of those moments where if you can like really just talk to the people listening, uh I think I've I've also heard because I've talked to a lot of young lawyers, people who are trying to figure out how to get their single practitioner off the ground. What is it that you can say to them about building their own story, building their own brand, and finding their place to become maybe not an industry leader like yourself, but even just a community leadership role?

SPEAKER_03 20:11

So, you know, um the dream performer, I want to have a lot of girl on one year is Eminem. Right? And what does Eminem say? Like she's that one moment, right? You're right, you got that one, you get one chance, one shot, one shot. So the beauty of our industry is everybody has a shot to do it. It doesn't matter where you are in your journey, you could be right out of law school, you could be a four-year lawyer, you have tools in place and mentorship tracks for people to come in and help do what you want to be able to do. But again, ladies and gentlemen, figure out who you are first and what your happiness is. I see define your happiness. If you want me to be your mentor, define your happiness, and then we'll find a path for you to get there. Look, and some people want accolades, some people want to have just their private jet and be able to fly wherever they want. It's just define what you want to be and work from there. Um, and people just have to understand that first and then realize how easy it is to have a jump start law firm. It's look, it's it's like starting a company. It's starting a company, you're starting a company. Start with a little bit of infrastructure, get on a case management system, start with some social media, start with the ability to track cases that are in the door, start making relationships without lawyers to send you cases. And that's I started by just going to other firms and saying, I'll take all the cases that you don't want. I'll learn. I started by going to doctor's office and saying, Hey, if you have any patients that need help, I'd love to talk to them. Right. I that was just grassroots marketing. I'd do a lot at bars, like I would just sit there and talk to people. Um, and it's so much easier with social media for folks to do that to DM people to ask, hey, can you help me with this? Do you have any cases for me to work on? You can go to attorney share right now. People, I mean people here like, I got six cases from attorney share. I started my career this way. That's why we started the platform. Because there's so many people that need help, and there's people that are willing to pay attention to that specific client. So Between your network referral, your referral networks, being on attorney share, being on Instagram, you could start there and literally build a book of business and going and doing your community stuff. So Justin Martin, if you get him on the show, do you know Justin Dallas? He's one of the most humble human beings, and he's 100% in the best I've ever seen of being just community grassroots marketing. He's passionate about it.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:21

Get in the community, help the community do things. So, like some of my best referrals, like one came in today that I just got to the right place, was one of the one of the families at school. I got two from the families at school this week. Both are massive cases because I'm there responsibly kids advanced. We're in school, they see you. Like, don't miss those opportunities. And that's free. Like it's free to be there, it's free to show up.

SPEAKER_04 22:41

Yeah. So it's a grass, grassroots. Work within your own industry before you start working out and then spending that marketing and define your niche.

SPEAKER_03 22:49

So, like, like Drew Bovin is a good example. So Drew's a client of yours, and everybody knows him as the as the school kid advocate, the kid advocate. No matter what it is, he's going to get those drawn to it because you he's passionate about it, you branded him that way. Now everybody knows Drew for that. So once you then you start to develop this book of business, the success, and now it's now you start investing into more opportunities. So that's whenever you call open jar and you'd be able to say, you know, how do I how am I able to expand my network, my footprint, right? And then be able to drive more business to you. Look, you don't have to work on every case. Like people say, well, I don't know what to do. Well, you can partner with other lawyers, you can refer them out. That's another fear here. What if I'm a young lawyer? I don't think I've mastered the practice of law yet to be able to go out on my own. I'm like, dude, you'll never feel like you practice the master of law, right? You never fear that way. But other lawyers, you can lean on them, you can partner with them, you can split fees and do it together. So um, I don't know, man. It's just it's the most exciting time ever to start your firm.

SPEAKER_04 23:44

Most exciting time ever. Yeah. I have one more closeout kind of question, which would be as far as you, as far as the industry, what's the next five years look like? Okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:57

I know that's that's that's always one of those questions. I think it's I think it's like the next few years. Like we will see, and we are seeing that a lot of people are gonna have autonomous law firms that automate a lot of the stuff from intake all the way through uh pre-litigation stages, but certainly in our phase. You're gonna have these automated referral networks that we're already seeing happening where you're gonna get the cases of the best lawyers. It's gonna be about standing out as being the best lawyers, really good with your craft and being a really good branded person so that the consumers are attracted to you, are the lawyers attracted to you because they know that you do good work because they hear about it, and then the really good lawyers just felt on straight success metrics are gonna be able to tee them up, but it's all gonna be in one universe. So everybody's fighting in this tech AI space. I know because like we're in a building to be that single login that can do go in and do all of those things, and it's gonna happen. So the next we probably have 600 AI vendors, right? I mean they'll be five. It's gonna just consolidate. Yes, it's going to consolidate. And once you get and learn those systems, like Cleo just announced they're gonna have their legal research, all the everything within the platform, it's all going to go there, and you just have to be able to get in, get immersed, and then go back to instead of being that business owner where it's like 90% of your time as a lawyer's running your business. If you own the firm, you can go back and mostly practice law because all these other things are gonna be there for uh doing it for you. Um it's gonna be the really skilled lawyers are gonna win, the really well-branded lawyers are gonna win. And I think the lawyers that are just treating people like cattle, and they're gonna be they're they're gonna be the biggest losers. Who was the host of biggest loser? Bob Harper. Oh, Gillian Michaels. Yeah, she was one of the coaches, and then Bob. Yeah, Bob. That was the other guy. Bob, Gillian, and uh, see, I think he's trivia guy over here.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

I was that yesterday. Brando said, I used to love that show.

SPEAKER_03 25:47

No. I really, I really agree with that. That's why when you see all of my on my social media, you'll never see me selling something.

SPEAKER_01 25:55

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:57

It's a fragile balance, and I think more and more relationship is so important because we're not talking about small amounts of money, we're not talking about single transaction, we are talking about a lot of money and a lot of trust. Yeah, yeah. Um, and that is not something that comes at one conference and a handshake and a dinner, right? That takes a lot of time. If you can't marinate that, it's probably not the right opportunity.

SPEAKER_03 26:21

And I mean, one thing that people lose sight of on social media is it's not like you have to post all the time. You're like, I can't create content, I don't have the time. You can literally spend an hour a day just at night commenting on other people's things, going to their stories, doing DMs, and then going to highly engaged accounts. Like some of my biggest followers come from me commenting on big social justice ones.

SPEAKER_02 26:45

Literally, what she does, yeah. Oh, I mean, I would love to work with you. She is making it, she she's unreal with the comments, yeah. She knows that it works.

SPEAKER_03 26:55

It works. Yeah, it works.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

Do I it's not people? It's not her content.

SPEAKER_03 27:03

Thank you for waiting.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

It's because I'm commenting coming in my profile. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 27:06

Yes. I mean, you can see it. Like, very nice to meet you. Um I'm gone. But but it works.

SPEAKER_04 27:11

Like, I went like uh there was any right direction. I got comment all the time.

SPEAKER_03 27:15

I've been practicing iced up and civil rights, and I will go to those pages. And there's one that like my comment is like going viral. There's like 20,000 likes on it, and I can see I can see all the and then they're reposting my they're reposting my thing. You have so you got to go into like the um it's not it's the request side. So people just don't just look in your primary DMs. There's all these other avenues. You gotta check them. There's hidden sometimes. Yeah, and go in and all you have to do, you don't have to repost it sometimes, just like it or comment, hit a quick heart. And now that's your devoted soldier for the red there.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

You're you hit it on the build. There's one thing too. I and I just got my mom to start doing this. I was like, take a walk. My mom's a vegan, she really advocates uh, but I love meat, so I'm the total opposite. But she's such an advocate. I was like, just start walking around taking videos and post them on YouTube Shorts, and it's doing well. People just, you know, as natural as you can be, it'll work too. If you're I mean, she's like 70 years old, so she's got nothing but to give, you know?

SPEAKER_04 28:10

Yeah, yeah. I I got one.

SPEAKER_02 28:13

You got one? I have I have one I've been waiting to ask. Most people on camera and social media, they'll come up and be like, hey, how much money did you make last year? You know, how much money they're they're talking about success athletes. There is an attorney watching right now that's probably going through their worst year as a business. Your worst year as a business obviously has happened. It could, you know, never. All right. I want you to tell us about that worst year and how mentally you got over it and the fact that there's light at the other side of the tunnel because this is a huge topic that not a lot of people talk about.

SPEAKER_03 28:40

No, so you are a startup, like it's kind of, especially in the contingency fee world, it takes a while for you to be able to earn dollars. And I remember I started our firm 2010, really with my twin brother, the Simon Law Group. I remember a moment 2013 or 2014 where this is when I started my origin story hitting these big verdicts, but they're not getting paid yet. So it's like we're waiting. The business is coming in.

SPEAKER_02 29:01

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_03 29:02

Okay, we're not getting paid yet. It's on appeal. So we were in this bubble where there were like a year or two where my brother and I didn't make money. Like, and we have it's like it looks like a big successful firm. And we were we hit, I remember the moment, it's like, hey, we either can like downsize, shut it down, you know, offload the risk, or you go all in. And we're like, we're going all in. And I remember when the wave hit because I think it was 2014, the first appeal got paid, and there was a bunch of we just went and then the next few years were our best years, but it went from famine to feast, but you we but you had we had to go all in. Like if we didn't make that decision to do it, it would not have worked.

SPEAKER_02 29:42

Yeah, um, but yeah, let's say you guys went it all in and it failed. Would you have still felt okay about it?

SPEAKER_03 29:47

That's the you would have just kept going again. I've never like, look, my dad's a UPS truck driver. Those were the best times of our life growing up. Like I always tell people, what's the worst thing that happened? Fails. You can go get a job. I would hire any lawyer who went solo and it didn't work out for them. They it it'd be a great relationship.

SPEAKER_04 30:03

Because in addition to being a great lawyer, you're you're you're an entrepreneur, you you can't help yourself, right?

SPEAKER_03 30:10

It's it's what drives you have any type of business class ever in my life. I just never have. I'm just trying to figure shit out. Some of us feel our way out in the dark, man. We just hope we find the door, you know? And that's like the mentorship like I'm seeking now is I like to be with folks that are really good at like the finance and business side of things, and that's who I'm bringing into our circle to understand how that works and how you could do better that way. And yeah, so that's some super cool. We got lots to learn, y'all.

SPEAKER_02 30:37

Yeah, man. Dude, it was. If you ain't learning, you're dying. I I got one more thing for you. What's the where where did Planet Fun Bob come from?

SPEAKER_03 30:44

Oh, this is a good handle, yeah. So uh my name's Bob, obviously. Um, my actually, he's my law partner and all Tom Conroy. We we went to college together at George Washington University, and we went out, we moved out to law school together on the West Coast, and he had this saying So the bar where I met my wife, I was just there every day because eventually she'd show up, right? And he I remember when he said it in this everyone, because I'm I'm I'm always laughing. I'm the happiest guy. I'm like the fucking happiest person you ever met. I'm genuinely happy. I love people. All the time, all the time. At least what I've seen. So he was like, and everyone, if he seen me come over and talk to me at the bar, we're hanging out. He's like, man, he's like, you can't avoid the gravitational pull of Bob. He's like Planet Fun Bob. I was like, hmm. And then when I went to Instagram, there was no Bob Simon was taken. It's Robert Simon from one to 50 million, but Planet Fun Bob available. And but it works, but remember my media director. She was like, first thing you gotta do is we gotta change your Instagram handle. We gotta have it more professional. I was like, nope.

SPEAKER_04 31:48

You heard it here on open and raw, the story behind Planet Fun Bob.

SPEAKER_03 31:54

That's how I caught you. Every time I tell people like what Planet Fun Bob, like, yep, you're gonna remember. Somebody started Planet Fun Hob one time and were trying to scam people on crypto shit. I caught it.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

Planet Fun Hob.

SPEAKER_01 32:09

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:09

All right.

SPEAKER_04 32:12

You just absolutely killed it.

SPEAKER_03 32:14

I love this stuff, man.

SPEAKER_00 32:18

Thank you for joining this episode of Open and Raw, featuring our guest, a superstar among law, Bob Simon and your hosts, Ray LaCarney of War Law Media, and Adam Warren of Open Jar Concepts. Bob is real and raw. Exactly what this show is all about. Thanks for joining us. See you on the next round of Open and Raw.