Mike Morse on the "Fireproof" Method with Ray Lakhani & Adam Warren

How do you take a personal injury law firm from $0 to over $150 million a year in settlements? In this powerhouse episode of Open & Raw, Ray Lakhani (Raw Law Media) and Adam Warren sit down with legal icon Mike Morse. As the founder of Michigan's largest personal injury firm and the author of Fireproof, Mike shares the exact operational blueprint he uses to scale, systematize, and protect his law firm from the chaotic ups and downs of the legal industry.

Mike explains his "Fireproof" methodology, emphasizing that true growth comes from treating your law firm like a business, not just a practice. He breaks down the necessity of delegating, finding the right "integrator" (COO) to execute your vision, and why most attorneys completely fail at building a positive internal culture. 

Ray Lakhani connects this back to the Raw Law marketing philosophy: you cannot successfully market a firm that is operationally broken on the inside. They discuss the power of the Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS), why Mike started his Mastermind program, and how law firm owners can step out of the daily grind and into the CEO role.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Welcome to Open and Raw, hosted by Ray Lakani and Adam Warren. In this episode, we welcome Mike Morse of the Mike Morse Law Firm and Fireproof. Mike is epic. His law firm continues to reach new heights in success, and his fireproof seminars and coaching to help law firms grow their practices continues to grow by leaps and bounds. Mike is a unicorn in the legal world. There are few like him who have long understood the power of branding, and his belief continues to prove itself time and time again. Let's get started.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

Mike, this is awesome. Great to have you here on the show, open and raw at Loti Gras. Mike literally just landed and came uh from the lobby to check in to the show.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

Yeah, yeah, just wait on that. Sorry, Mike.

SPEAKER_06 1:09

Second helicopter of the day or airplane. No, the room wasn't ready. So this was uh convenient. I may be sleeping in your lobby or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

I doubt it. We'll put you in Ranella's room. Yeah. Oh, geez. He's got a next bed.

SPEAKER_06 1:21

Yes, of course he's here. Oh boy. Here we go. Can he get out of the rooms okay, Ranella? So far.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

No, but he's now remember that story. Yes, but now he's trying to create a joke about breaking into your house. So he's trying to do that. Do you know?

SPEAKER_06 1:35

I have to tell you a story after we're done.

SPEAKER_02 1:36

Okay. So Mike, such a trooper, just landed, tried, checked into his room, came straight to the show. So it's a real honor to be here. Um, many of you may or may not know, Mike has become an icon in the legal space and is helping lawyers and law firms all over the country. Thanks for coming. My pleasure. Happy to be here. So, Mike, let's just start and jump into it. You've got uh this very successful law firm. And uh on the way here, we were talking about. I remembered a number you gave me about where you were doing in fees per year. Yeah. And now you just blew me out of the water and said it's it's doubled. Can you give me a little bit of how that's where it was and where it's been and the timeline for it?

SPEAKER_05 2:18

It's a kind of an interesting story. You know, we believe as coaches and running a law firm that we can do whatever we want. And we were doing about $150 million a year in settlements and verdicts, which is which was bringing in about $50 million in fees every year steady for years. And then in one of my masterminds, a lawyer looked at me and says, What are you doing? You gotta grow. You grow or die. I said, I'm making enough money. He says, just trust me. So I called not case, so I said, How long is it gonna take to double? He says, five years. I said, we're gonna do 300 million in five years. He says, Yes. So I said, okay, let's do it. It took so long story short, it took three years. We're gonna do 305 million this year, 2025, brings in 100 and something in fees. And just by making a decision, we were able to double our revenue, double our settlements by just making that decision. And that to me is a really powerful thing that all the lawyers out there who are just trying to get cases, trying to settle cases, trying to move on to the next thing, they're not consciously making decisions. And if they if they do, if they follow the fireproof process, they can do anything they want. And that's what we're teaching.

SPEAKER_03 3:19

Go ahead. All right, I gotta dive in. What I know about you, Mike, is fireproof, is that word. Um, and I and I'm gonna be honest with you, I haven't read it yet. Now I know I got to, but could you break down for my viewers at least what fireproof breaks down for the readers?

SPEAKER_05 3:36

2019, my firm is just humming along. Uh, my COO and I were a little bored. We wrote this book. It's kind of a playbook for personal injury firms and other law firms on how to grow and scale their firms and go from unpredictable to wildly profitable. And that's the tagline of the book, my my The Fan Club.

unknown 3:57

Woo!

SPEAKER_06 3:58

Hey Jen. That's going on. That's happening. What about your bush? What was that?

SPEAKER_05 4:08

I know. What did she say? I is that getting edited? Is that getting edited? Hi, Oliver.

SPEAKER_06 4:16

I know. Everything is subject to approval. Wheels are coming off. Wheels off the bus, and we just started. Hi. Hi, kids. Are you gonna hug?

SPEAKER_03 4:25

It's okay, right on camera. Keep it wrong. Hey, what's up, Scott?

SPEAKER_06 4:30

Are we happy? Um hi boys and girls. Hi good. Hi, hello. We're definitely. I love the shout. I love the shout. I really I have a feeling that's all gonna make it into this thing. Are you kidding? These two degenerates. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 4:49

I literally just landed 30 handed.

SPEAKER_05 4:52

He picked me up tomorrow. I'll see you. Thank you. That's what I said. Okay. All right, here we go. All right, two.

SPEAKER_03 5:00

So you're probably getting on learning.

SPEAKER_05 5:02

Well, fireproof. Fireproof. So um we wrote it in 2019, came out during COVID. So it's called fireproof because I had a fire and nothing changed. My numbers just kept going up. We just ran it because we have this five-point system, right? But fireproof also means COVID-proof, hurricane proof, tornado proof, uh flood proof, and because disasters happen, yeah, a key man can leave. Uh you laws change, uh, big ugly firms come into your town, national firms to try to take all your business. But if you have these five pillars, these fireproof pillars, you're gonna be fine. And the other people are not gonna be fine. So we're trying to fireproof as many firms as they can, as we can, to protect them from disasters. And that and it's working. It's absolutely working. We fireproofed hundreds of firms, yeah. And uh they're they're all growing, they're all scaling, they're all forecasting so they know what they're gonna do at the end of the year. They are all finding Cherry Garcia type advertising and social media, like what I know you both do, and I've watched your stuff, and it's amazing. You guys are the epitome of cherry Garcia marketing and advertising. I'm not kidding. And so I love what you guys do. And and and and was I not saying how good your stuff was on the way here?

SPEAKER_02 6:18

In the car on the way.

SPEAKER_05 6:19

So I loved all the all the things that you guys are doing. So that stands out. Yeah, that gets attention, not the boring lawyer sitting behind the desk at the mahogany desk telling five things to do after a car accident. And it has two likes from him and his secretary and no shares and three views. We know this. Your stuff, your shit is getting lots of likes, lots of shares, lots of comments because it's it's raw, it's different, um, it's attention grabbing. When you're going like this, you have one second. I stop at your stuff, I stop at your commercials. And uh, that's what you got. You guys are you guys are doing it. You guys are Cherry Garcia, and so that's what we teach.

SPEAKER_04 6:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 7:00

Um, that's what our commercials are, that's what our social media is. Uh, we do some other things in our community that are different to stand out, but it's um it's all working.

SPEAKER_03 7:09

Speak speaking of sorry, sorry. Speaking on I'm so curious, speaking on Cherry Garcia being different. You had a 2019 Super Bowl ad where you were chasing an ambulance. Yes. My God, is that the fucking funniest, one of the best commercials I think I've ever seen for a person. Can you, dude, like that, you're talking branding, you're talking about being different. You leaned into everything on that one. Can you talk about that, please?

SPEAKER_05 7:32

Yeah, I mean, that first of all, you know, Ross Lerner and his team came up with that one. They came to me, I wasn't certain. My COO John Knock Hazel, who's my opposite, my partner, but my opposite said, I wouldn't do that. That's too risky. We talked it out, I thought about it, we did it. That's the only commercial people remember and talk about. Obviously, it won Golden Gavels. Obviously, I mean, it's it's it's got lots and lots of views. And when I meet people, they say, you know, I was pulled over recently, and I thought I was getting a big ticket. And the cop sees who I am, and he says, I think, I think, I literally think he's about to yell at me. He says, You know what my favorite commercial is? He's leaning in my window, says the Amulence Chaser commercial. I did not get a ticket that day. And so, so that is a great commercial, and it was it was risky. It there's a subliminal subliminal message. Not everything is as it appears. Us personal entry lawyers are not as we just appear. You know, you think that we're greedy, we think that we have this and that, but we're we're good, we're good people. We're giving back the wallet at the end of the commercial. We're doing good in our communities, we're helping people fight the bad, evil insurance companies. And I try to do that in my spots, right? They're not obvious. People are smart, they know what we do for a living. So why not entertain them a little bit? Why not make it fun? Why not make it funny? Why not bring your mom into it, your dog into it, you know, say things that most lawyers won't say. That's what you guys are doing here, and that's what I do, and in my market, it absolutely works.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

Well, and I think, sorry, Ray, is that okay? I think that um that commercial is really where Mike and I's friendship was forged because I somewhat nervously approached him and said, Thank you for validating everything I've been thinking. Because that was about the time when I wanted to start creating law firms into brands. And I needed someone else to put their stamp on it. And at that time, I had some radio that I had nominated and Mike had won for TV Spot that year, and my mouth hit the floor. Um, and I was just like, I need to be friends with this guy. Like, this guy has figured out what no one else has. It's why I refer so often to Mike as a unicorn. And I want to also just go back to the book Fireproof, real quick. I like to do a lot of audio, uh, audio book. For the non-readers out there, the the fireproof audio is great. And while it is by a lawyer for lawyers, um, you don't just have to be a lawyer to get this book. It's actually got universal message for anyone who's trying to grow a business. The the way he talks about his COO, John, um, and the importance of the COO to his growth was very enlightening for me. I've listened to it numerous times, and I would definitely recommend Ray, while you're doing some editing, have that thing playing in the background. Thank you so much. I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_03 10:27

Absolutely. Um, I wanted to touch on what you were saying, Mike. You said risky, um, and we've been talking about doing things that are different. I work with a lot of firms and I have a lot of friends in this industry, and a lot of them are so damn scared to do the risk. And I again, when I saw that commercial, I was like, this guy just gets it. Like he gets it. What is it that stops people from pouring into that glass and just allowing themselves to be authentic or outside the box?

SPEAKER_05 10:53

The word that's that came, nobody's ever asked me that question. It's a great question. The word that pops in my head is fear. Fear of pissing people off, fear of not being liked, fear of driving people away. But you know, when I when I first I got I got fired, when you read my book, you're gonna realize that I was getting thousands of cases a year from the biggest advertiser in my town. In the middle of the day, one day in in May of 2011, he said, No more cases for you, Mike. One month later, I had to go on TV and make it rain and make those phones ring. And so I tried to be safe. The phones barely limped along. And once I started being different and showing my personality and showing some humor and putting my mom on there, the phone, it blew up. It absolutely blew up. And so for your clients, I I can just say you have to take those risks. People want to be entertained, they hate these legal ads, they hate the boring stuff. You gotta do something different. You have to, or or it's just not gonna work. And I think, you know, Adam, to your point a few minutes ago, we are making a difference because I'm now meeting with TV stations, I'm meeting with people, and and lawyers across the country are now caring about production value. They didn't before. Right. These TV stations would say, hey, if you spend this much money, we'll come to your office and shoot them for free. The lighting is bad, the direction is bad, the sound is bad. You have to spend money to make the that Ambulus Chaser commercial probably cost me six figures.

SPEAKER_04 12:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:23

And it was worth every dime. So when you're when your creative directors say you got to spend a little bit of money, and I know you spend money and your and your ads show that they they look expensive and rich and and deep and and with layers. It's it's you look at one of yours and you look at one of the talking head boring commercials, it's you know what a free commercial looks like, and you know what an open jar commercial looks like, right? And it's it's it's just night and day, and and one works really, really well and one doesn't. In my opinion, in my humble opinion, things have changed.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

You can't just put up the board. I'll take your humble opinion anytime. Yeah I I want to ask about the fireproof program. Um, can you talk about that and what that's offering to law firms who are trying to find their way, who just can't get their things off the ground? And, you know, I I don't know what it costs the law firms. I I'm not into that. I have no insight into that. But if you're speaking to law firms who are lost, who are fearful, who don't know whether to direct capital to operations, marketing, or both, how what are you giving them in that fireproof program that you've been putting together?

SPEAKER_05 13:35

So we have two, we have two programs. It's pretty easy. I tried to simplify it. We have coaching and we have masterminds. The coaching is weekly. We have a coach in their level in their meetings, in their in their weekly meetings that sit with them and hold them accountable and make sure they're doing the shit that they say they're gonna do the week before. We sit down with them quarterly for eight hours, and we set all kinds of goals, all types of strategies, all types of things to do in the next 90 days. We review the last 90 days. We have one-year goals, three-year goals, five-year goals. And I can just report that the 80 plus firms that are doing it are all growing 20, 30% a year. They are all killing it. We're teaching them how to hire, we're teaching them how to market, we're teaching them how to buy media properly and get to the right vendors and do the right things. We're teaching them how to set core values. I mean, I could go on and on and on. And and and nobody leaves. It's comprehensive. It is totally comprehensive. But but before you, you know, call us, you should read the book. Yeah, see if it resonates. So many people read the book and say, Oh my God, you changed my life. Please help me. I started off with EOS 18 years ago, entrepreneurial operating system. Have you? Yeah, my coach wrote that book. Oh, Gino with me.

SPEAKER_03 14:52

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_05 14:53

I was with him Wednesday. Today's Friday. No way. Yeah, eight hours on Wednesday.

SPEAKER_03 14:57

Who are you? So what?

SPEAKER_05 15:00

So Gino, so basically what we did is we took EOS and we turned it to uh a we we tweaked it for law firms. So when I'm going through EOS, as you know, yeah, you meet with your coach four times a year.

SPEAKER_04 15:12

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 15:13

I I would have gotten to where I'm at a lot faster if I could also meet with him weekly.

SPEAKER_03 15:17

True? Yes.

SPEAKER_05 15:18

Um, I would like a coach to introduce me to vendors. Hey, if I asked Gino, I need help with social media marketing. He doesn't know who to have me call. Hey, I need help with commercials. He doesn't know who to call. I need a CFO, I need a this, I need a that. He's just my coach. He's amazing. But he's not helping me. So when somebody's a fireproof member and they need resources, they need names. We have a plethora of names, right? We have forms, we have processes, we help them with everything. This is all comprehensive that we can help a law firm grow. And every law firm is coming to us at a different stage. One year, three year, five year, twenty-year, thirty year. We have firms who've been practicing 40 years, bringing in $100 million a year, right? And so we are helping them get to the next level. We are now preparing firms to sell. Jen Gore has gotten on stages and said, I would not have been able to merge or sell to Sweet James if it wasn't for Fireproof. And that's that means a lot to me. And she's very generous with that compliment because we are because people's books are mediocre. So we have something called our jumbotrons, Ray. And we make sure that the law firms know every piece of data that you should know. We tell them what they should know. We say, go try to create it, your firm. If you can't create it, we'll create it for you. And every day, 24-7, they can look at all their numbers, the important numbers. And we try to get them addicted to the numbers. So when they say, hey, should we do this, should we do that? What do the numbers say? Yeah. And that's how I am. I'm completely addicted to data. I won't make a decision without it. And so that's another pillar of fireproof. There's others, um, but but it's it's people are becoming addicted on the data, which which is super, super duper important, right? And and so we're holding them accountable. We're doing these quarterlies, we're doing these weeklies. That's coaching. It starts at $5,000 a month, all in. We do two live summits a year that you've been to. We all get together, we have a community. They're all referring cases, they're all asking questions, they're all saying, hey, we need a new lead generator in this market. Who's good? Who's not good? Who should we stay away from? What are you guys paying the your COOs? What do you guys? When's it time to get a COO? When's it time to get a CFO? We talk about it, right? I and and so that's coaching. One of the one of the best things I've ever done in my legal career is join mastermind groups. So in January, I said, Fireproof needs mastermind groups. There's nobody great out there running mastermind groups. There's some good people, but nobody who's done it, right? So we brought Bill Biggs in, who's done it. We brought Kelly Willeford, who's done it, John and me and a few others, and we set out to do Fireproof Masterminds, and we have over 70 firms already in it. So we're meeting twice a year in their mastermind groups. They come to uh we had a conference, a lot of them came to. We do lots of other things. We zoom call every month, and that's less than coaching, but it's super fun. We go to, we were in Park City, over 100 law firms uh with the coaching class, and it was just so much fun and amazing. Uh, we're going to Scottsdale, a town that I like, in February of next year. Um, and in those masterminds, you challenge each other. So, like that guy I told you the story earlier, right from 150 to 300 million, yeah, mastermind, right? And there's not, there's you can't have a competitor in your group because we're sharing numbers, we're showing the data. What are you paying for a case? What are you paying for a case? What's your profit margin this year? The national average is 20 to 25% profit margins. Our fireproof team, coaching staff, is trying to get uh the law firms to 40 to 45%, like the Mike Mars law firm. That's where we're at, and we know how to get there. So instead of bringing home 20 cents on the dollar, we want you to bring home 45 cents on the dollar. And that's what we're teaching them, another thing that we're teaching them. And it's actually working. They start at 20% and now they're at 30%, 36%, trying to get to 40%. And and and there's actual methods to do it. And but by looking at the data, what it looking, what are you what are you wasting your money on? Why are you why are your lawyers making more than you? Why is your comp plan suck, etc.?

SPEAKER_02 19:28

Oh, yeah. Okay. I wish I wish a sip of coffee affected me the way it affects my I'm high as a kite right now. I want to shift gears a little bit. Uh coffee. I'm coffee. Mike, uh, amongst all this, I've I uh known you for a long time now and I've spent time with you personally. I I follow you on social media, not in a stalker kind of way. Um talk about while you're in in experiencing all this amount of success, you're you look at it as well as giving back to lawyers, but talk about your life balance. You have daughters, you are just the the pride and joy of your life. I see it all the time. Yeah. Can you get a little personal? Sure.

SPEAKER_05 20:13

So first year of law school, I went to law school to practice law with my dad. Uh he was a personal injury lawyer in Detroit, Joel Morse, and I flew back to Detroit from the lovely University of Arizona and to go to law school to be near him. First year law school was great. I hung out with him every day. He taught, he, we, he taught me things I didn't understand. And sadly, he died in May of 1990 when I was taking my first year exams. Totally devastated my life, changed my life, thought about not finishing law school, uh, obviously finished it. And I just, I just from that moment on, I, I, I think I appreciate, I, I, I, I appreciated life more than anybody. And so when I started having kids, uh, I wouldn't work Fridays. Uh, I never missed a uh a recital, a soccer practice. I drove carpool, I made lunches. My daughters are still, I talk to them every single day. And that's that's my whole life. The the law firm is completely secondary. And uh so yeah, I have a I've always had a good work-life balance. I'm not a workaholic. I think I learned how to do these systems and these processes because I wanted to be with my kids so much. I wanted to drive them to school, go to work, but pick them up at three o'clock.

SPEAKER_04 21:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:29

Not work weekends, not work nights, not work Fridays. And I surrounded myself with amazing people, which we talk about. We talk about leadership teams, we talk about COOs who take the vision, right? We figure out who's the visionary, who's the who's the number two COO integrator, make sure that you're you're working in your sweet spot. That's another thing we do in Fireproof. And and because I did all that, I was able to uh enjoy my life. I'm enjoying my life. And uh my daughters are amazing. I I I enjoy them. They come first always. And everybody, all my friends know that. My clients know that. But I have 65 lawyers who work for me. So my clients, my clients are happy. Because I've I I we didn't even say the word delegation yet, which is one of my favorite words, which is what we teach all of our fireproof clients on day one, how to delegate. Because you can't get to where you want to get without delegating. And so many lawyers are doing everything. Lawyers call me and I ask them questions and they're doing everything. And you can't be a family man, you can't run a successful business and not learn how to delegate. So that was a long answer. I apologize. But there's so much there. There's so much there.

SPEAKER_02 22:37

It's a very honest answer. We I bet you people are sitting and looking at all the things you're doing and saying, how the hell is Mike not a workaholic? You're there's workaholic, but then there is a real ambition and drive. Um that leads me to another one. Mike, if you were to look at the point where you were really up and coming and you were developing a vision of yourself, what used to keep you up at night? And if is there anything that still does?

SPEAKER_05 23:10

At this point, no, thank God. Um I I was, you know, um, I mean, I think I always knew that it was gonna be okay, and I just had everything in place, but I I my dad used to say at the dinner table.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

Don't don't lose that. I just didn't want it to get it's too important. I saw Kelly walk by right as you were talking. I thought you might stick around. Good? Good?

SPEAKER_02 23:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 23:48

So my dad used to stay at the dinner table in the 70s. He didn't know where his next case was coming from or if he was ever gonna get another case. And I think, you know, my whole life I've been hungry and competitive and wanting, I want everything that I got coming to me, whether, and I want every case in my market, right? And I haven't lost that. And we sign up thousands of cases a year, I get a thousand calls a week, and I want everybody handled the way I would handle it. Now, I'm not talking really any of them, but I want it handled my way. So I'm mentoring and I'm training, and I always have. And so I'm hungry. And so we're staying up at night was trying to figure out how to get hungry and and honing in. So the marketing and advertising is a it's one of my secret, it's one of my special sauces that I have, uh, spidey powers that I know how to market, I know how to advertise, I know how to talk to the consumer on how why to call me. Is this gonna make you call me or is this gonna make you call me? I can look at a spot, like we go through 20 spots, and I'm like in the middle of reading, because you know, we do read table reads. Yes, no, no, no, yes. And I just it's totally a gut. And I think it's from back in the day, you know, I I was a waiter for many, many years, and I was I I always brought in the most tips every night. Every shift I've ever worked, I've always brought in the most tips because I gave the customers exactly what they wanted. I I I I was funny, I was uh informative. Um, if they you know, I'd give them a little bit of extra cake or I'd substitute that soup for the salad, even though the menu said you couldn't do it, but my managers didn't care. But you give them a little extra value. And they what happens? They give you a 25% tip back in the 80s when they know most people gave 15%, but I would always get that extra because I would show them extra value. I do that with my clients. When a lawyer refers me a case and I get that check, most lawyers are like, Do I gotta pay this referral fee? That lawyer didn't do anything. I would run to their office and say, Adam, here's a $25,000 check. Thank you for referring me that case. Here's your money. And and but nobody else did that. I didn't understand it. I was like, you trusted me with your case. I did an extra good job, and I'm giving you a referral fee. Why? Because I want more cases. Right. And and and and and and I had people that I'd give those checks to, and they'd be like, well, if Morse could do that, why should we give him more? So that's a problem. And two, people don't have that gratitude. And I and I have I've been full of gratitude my whole life, and I try to show it, and I get, you know, the more you give, the more you get. You know that saying, I live my life that way. And I think that's one reason we do fireproof, right? It it gives me so much energy helping people.

SPEAKER_04 26:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 26:36

And I take nothing for granted. I'm very grateful for everything I have. I'm in the second half of my career, and and that's what I'm I'm I'm doing right now, is I'm taking care of others. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 26:49

So, where do you go from $305 million?

SPEAKER_05 26:54

In um uh 2028, we're gonna be at $462 million. And by by by 2030, we're gonna be over half a billion in settlements. And we're gonna start, we're starting to expand in our market. We just moved into Grand Rapids, uh, which is our second largest city. And and and so we're doing some other things right now because we're in one DMA. All this is in one DMA. It's not in, we have six in Michigan, we're in one. And so we just branched off to Grand Rapids. People think that's kind of weird and remarkable because we're not in multiple states, we're not in multiple DMAs, because people call me and say, I'm expanding to six states. I said, Okay, what's your key market? And they tell me, I said, Well, do you own that market? No. Well, why are you why don't you focus on that market? And they just, and so they want to like go after those shiny objects, as you know from Gino's books. So they want to go in six states and 20 markets, and I'm like, I don't like that philosophy. I don't think that's a good strategy. And but people do what they want to do. I I focused on one market. I love my community, they love me. I do dog adoption events, I do backpack events, I uh I I'm in, I'm I did five charity events this week. Five. One week.

SPEAKER_03 28:10

I speaking of the backpacks, correct me if I'm wrong, please. But I read that you don't label them. Is that correct? That's correct. I found that to be both me and Megan brand. It isn't brand them, is what I mean. Yeah. So Megan and I both thought that was extremely bold and different. Why?

SPEAKER_05 28:28

Yeah. So that's makes me emotional. Most people brand these things, right? But these kids need them. And I don't want one kid who needs it and the other kid who doesn't need it, have it branded, and this kid looks down on this kid and makes fun of this kid and all that. So so that that that's why I didn't I didn't want the stigma of the of my name on the backpack. So so we just don't do it. It's it's uh people wanted me to do it, people wanted me to put a tag on it or put a big patch on it. And um dude, we just didn't do it.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

That's legit.

SPEAKER_05 29:07

It's fun. It's it's you know, the backpacks are a big big deal in Detroit.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

Is that your consideration day one? We're doing these backpacks. I don't need my name on it, just give them to the kids. Is that how that happened? Or did I'm distracted by uh Mr.

SPEAKER_06 29:22

Faust pulling down his pants. He showed his penis. He didn't show this penis.

SPEAKER_05 29:27

Did he really? And I missed it. I mean, I could barely see it. I can barely see it.

SPEAKER_02 29:30

Well that says something that says something.

SPEAKER_05 29:34

Um, ask, hi Jessica.

SPEAKER_02 29:36

I asked that question again. Sorry. Uh coming a couple of questions is you know, when you first decided to do this, was it an immediate decision of understanding kids that if they one has a patch on it, one doesn't, that they could get rousted in school for taking a freebie? Like, did you immediately know that? No, no, no.

SPEAKER_05 29:57

The whole backpack thing, look, it I'm a lifelong learner. I had somebody come to me and say, These kids don't have backpacks, they're taking their supplies in garbage bags, teachers are reaching in their pockets. I didn't know this. How would I know this? My kids are my kids are spoiled. They get new backpacks every year whether they need it. They buy new supplies, whether they got a drawer full of them. I'm sure yours did too, right? They're lovingly spoiled. But there's kids two miles from my house who aren't, and they didn't have it. So we started with 300 backpacks. And I personally went to the school, and these kids would hug me, and the parents would hug me, and the teachers and the principal. I'm like, I turned to my team and I said, How many kids are there in Detroit? K through five, how many kids? And they're like 26,000. I said, I want everyone to have a backpack. And they said, and they said, Well, why don't we do K through two? It'll be cheaper, it'll be half the price. I said, What about the third and fourth and fifth graders walking the hall seeing beautiful backpacks? That's not fair. So for literally second year, we did K through five, and that was 26,000 backpacks. The love I get, it's just amazing. Uh, we've been doing this 12 years. We've given out over 350,000 backpacks full of supplies. And uh I'm known, I mean, people when I'm in the streets of Detroit, they say one of two things. Where's your mom? And thanks for what you do in the community. I couldn't be any prouder. I mean, that's all what else do I need? Right? I'm doing good for my community. They know I love my mom, which I do. And, you know, the cases are just a byproduct and it's all good, but like just feeling the love from your community. I there's just there's nothing better. And I'm I look around this country at the opportunities, fireproof clients, and I will anybody actually, but mostly fireproof clients hear about the backpack program. And we created a deck that they can use my logo, project backpack, they can order them at my price. Uh, they can I'll give them the whole playbook, how to do it. And we're in like 18 states, project backpacks in 18 states. And a dream would be to have every kid who needs a backpack with supplies to have one across this country for Project Backpack. I don't get any credit. I don't want my name on any of them. I don't want my name on their websites. I just do it. Do it in your state, do it in your city. And and I'm teaching them how, and they're getting, they're loving it. So they're starting at 500 and then they're going up to 5,000 and that and they're seeing the love in their community. And we don't track if somebody says they call us because of the backpack. That we don't track that. If a lawyer calls me and say, says to me, Michael, what's your ROI on the backpacks? I said, it's not for you, bud. I'm not, it's not for you. We do this to connect with your community, to love your community, to give back to your community. We don't do it for cases. You might get some cases one day, but we don't track it, and that's not why you do it. And the guys and gals who get it do it, and the ones who are just focused on the dollar don't. And because I'm not focused on the dollar, good things happen. And that's another thing we talk about in Fireproof.

SPEAKER_02 33:10

So there's a reason to do things that is not just about ROI and um moving a little bit to avoid the sun. But I get that question constantly. Well, if I do this commercial, what's my ROI? Uh let me get out my crystal ball. Yeah. Like we have to run the media. You have to understand that you've got to be community immersed to support what you're doing, either in traditional or online media. Um, and then you went a step further. You uh do these Mike Morse pet adoptions, which just seem to have more tears. I mean, yeah. It's beautiful.

SPEAKER_05 33:47

So we do two back, we do, we do uh we do two dog adoption events a year. We just made a really big gift to the Michigan Humane, uh, which is our pet adoption uh center in Detroit. Used to be Michigan Humane Society. I want to say that. It's Michigan Humane, it's a wonderful organization. We just had our Bow Wow Brunch, which is our largest fundraiser. We raised a million two fifty on Sunday. I was there raising, helping raise money. And we connect dogs and cats to their forever homes, their new best friends. And I think we've adopted out over a thousand animals. Uh, we pay for some of them. We do a pet of the week on one of the stations. Wow. And it's so fun watching families come together. I mean, it's like being in a birthing room at a hospital. I mean, you're at these events with dogs that nobody wants. I have story after story, guys, where I will walk up to an animal that's overweight, blind, 11 years old, and I say, and I walk up, I say to the uh foster parents or the the adoption company, I say, What's going on with this animal? Or name is this and that. She's 11, been in shelter for three years. She's probably got six months to live. Nobody wants her. And I just, obviously, your emotions are there. We bring hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people show up to my parking lot. Um, we call it meet your best, meet your best friend at the paw firm. Get it? And then I come back a half hour later and I see a family standing around this animal. I'm gonna cry. And they're taking it home. They're taking it home. And I'm like, why? And they're like, because this dog deserves a great last six months of its life. Oh gosh. This happens at at least two or three times an event that a beautiful animal gets a home that was not gonna get a home. There's something magical about my parking lot. It happens every time. We all cry, we all love on it. And these people who come to my parking lot have bigger hearts than me. They just, I remember a nurse, a 75-year-old nurse who was semi-blind, came for a blind dog. And it makes you like, what? You're taking home this blind dog? Yeah, because I'm half partially blind and I want to take home this dog. Or a guy comes in with one leg and he takes home a three-legged dog. And like all of these stories happen, and it's because most people don't want a disable dog, a dog that needs tons of medicine, but there are people who do, and so something special happens in our parking lot every year, and I will do this until I can't do it any anymore. And it has nothing to do with cases, it has to do with watching these families come together and you do these things in your community, and and good things happen for your law firm, of course. I'm not trying to not be a Pollyanna and saying that, of course not, but you can't focus on the on that. You just gotta just focus on doing good, and good shit's gonna happen. And I've I've seen it now, and now my fireproof clients are doing it, and they're seeing it, and I and I just want that to proliferate throughout this country.

SPEAKER_02 36:55

Mike, you've uh you've you've again personified authenticity, right? I mean it's very rare when we have a conversation and we're trying to talk to law firms about what they can do to better themselves, that they're as we were just saying, don't always try to back it into an ROI. But if you're part of your community doing good things, good things happen.

SPEAKER_04 37:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:22

Right? I mean, Mike doesn't have to do these things with the backpacks of the paws to still be the paw law firm, to still be uh successful, clearly. But he does them anyway. And whether or not he's doing it for goodwill, it's like a boomerang. You're throwing out the goodwill, it's coming back, whether you want it or not.

SPEAKER_05 37:43

Thank you for saying that. It's addictive. I love, I mean, again, the more you give, the more goodness that comes to me and my family and my law firm. Think about the clients who who who come to these events. Your your employees volunteer. The camaraderie that happens, the team, the teamwork that happens to make these events to it's just it's just hugely positive. It's it's uh and and you and you can't be fake. I mean, you can't, you know, you you were saying the word authentic. I mean, I don't I'm just me. You can't try, you can't fake it. You know, you you can I'm sure you've tried to put people who don't shouldn't be on camera on camera. Yeah, the the people who have faces for radio, you know who I'm talking about? You those that's it's that's like putting a square peg in a round hole, right? You can't do it. You know, the people with no personality who don't want to be on camera, who don't want to showcase themselves, um, who want to share, you know, you gotta come up with a different strategy.

SPEAKER_04 38:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:45

And so this isn't for everybody, but if they have a big heart, I can teach them how to connect with their community and how to get back and love it.

SPEAKER_02 38:52

You wanna do the final word?

SPEAKER_05 38:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 38:55

I have a final question I want to ask you, Mike, and it's gonna be selflessly selfish. What it is is um you seem like a really, really great man just in general. And I I'm a data guy too. I love numbers on the social media side of things. That's exactly what I do on a daily, but I recognize patterns and habits. It's just like something I focus on. With you for people watching, and when I say selfishly selfish, also for me, because I admire everything that just transpired. What in what habits do you have, like as an individual? Because your patterns and habits must create some kind of concoction that I I just want to know for myself, and I'm sure there's a bunch of people out there that would love to know too.

SPEAKER_05 39:44

I mean, I never really thought about that.

SPEAKER_03 39:48

Thank God. Yeah, it's I yeah, can you make sure we're all in or should I or should I move? Oh, you're all in.

SPEAKER_04 39:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 39:54

Will it be weird on the frame and the edit to see us back and forth? I'm good. I'm good with it. All right. Um, thank god. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:01

Don't worry, don't worry about it. As long as we have the video, it's gonna look phenomenal. I've been like doing this dodgeball with the sun.

SPEAKER_05 40:05

Yeah, no, that's a good question. Habits. Um, I've never really been asked that. And and so look, I I I I take care of myself. Um, I journal, I meditate every morning, I work out every morning, uh, I eat healthy. Uh, I I I see my doctors, yeah. I have a ton of energy. Um I try to uh, you know, I I love connecting with people, and I uh I am I am the best delegator. So that's a habit, I think. I don't know if that's a habit. I'm a great delegator.

SPEAKER_04 40:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 40:40

Uh I I love to learn. I I I I love to read. I love to ask questions. I I love to be curious. I'm not afraid. We were talking about this on the plane right over. Like uh I used uh a word, I think I said, I'm I'm I'm getting a little peckish. And the other guy's just nodding his head, and I he's and I looked at him, I said, I said, Do you know what that means? He's like, No. I'm like, you're not gonna ask me what that means? And he was like embarrassed to ask. I said, If you said a word I didn't know, I'd say, what the hell does that mean? Right? I'm not you gotta let your I I know my ego. I I know I understand myself. I mean, I don't this isn't a habit, but I'm very self-aware. I think that's critical. When I'm on stages or I'm coaching people, you know, we talk about ego. You have to have your ego in check. If you have too big of an ego, or you're that guy at your office who who thinks that you're the best at something, yeah. There's so many people like that. I used to be like that. Like nobody could do this or that better than me. Yeah. But once you realize that's bullshit, you can hand it off to somebody better than you, your whole world opens up because you have all this extra time. What do you want to do with that time, Ray? And you can do whatever you want.

SPEAKER_04 41:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:51

And that's one thing that I love to do at Fireproof. Like, what do you do with all this free time? Some people say, I want to go try more cases. I want to go take up golf. I want to go travel more. I want to, whatever. So habit of of figuring out how to delegate, right? I used to run around like a chick with my kid cut off. And now I figured out all these things that that make my life better. And I do them, and my life is pretty darn good. And um really, I'm just uh I enjoy every day. And I live, I don't know if this is a habit. I live every day like it's my last. So my kids know, because my dad and I never talked about death. My dad and I never talked about things. I was 22, you know, he was a busy lawyer. And so I've told my kids if something happened to me tomorrow, just know. I have no regrets. I live every day like it's my last. I'm I'm really enjoying my life. I'm happy. I want them to know those things. I don't, I mean, I think my dad was happy, but we didn't talk about that. We we talk about my dad, we talk about losses. Um, so I'm a good communicator. And so that's another habit, I guess. I mean, I'll I'll share my feelings. I'll I'll share, I'll share things. I could go on and on and on. I'm probably boring people. But but these are all things that I do. Um, and I I I I love I love my life. I love being a lawyer, I love my kids, I love my friends, I love sharing um and connecting and and speaking on stages and teaching. Connecting is a huge thing. Connection's a huge thing. This has been really fun. And and you know what? It's not the coffee, it's you guys who give me energy. I'm dead. Thank you. Fucking serious.

SPEAKER_06 43:29

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 43:30

It's talking about this stuff that gives me energy. I may go crash after this, but sharing this and helping people, if somebody gets one aha and and gets to live a little bit better, like what's what's better than that?

SPEAKER_02 43:41

But you also catch Mike's warmth. When Mike touches you, you genuinely understand he's being warm. Yeah. And that is also something I've always known about this man.

SPEAKER_03 43:52

Well, so that was part of the habit question, too. I I was wondering if that was something that's like a not intentional.

SPEAKER_05 43:59

I don't even know I'm doing it. It's so natural. It is one of my love languages.

SPEAKER_03 44:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:03

Touch. Touch. Right? And and you know, but and I do love you guys, even though I just met you. So I definitely love this guy.

SPEAKER_03 44:11

When I grow up, I want to be my friends.

SPEAKER_05 44:13

This guy is warm and fuzzy and one of my best friends for forever. And it feels like forever. Yeah. We always connect. It's always warmth. And touching you, you got nice big muscles. I like to touch them. I like to touch him.

SPEAKER_03 44:25

That better makes the cover from mud. And I I mean, he feels like a dad already. Yeah. I'll take that. He's a young guy. I don't know. Uncle. Okay. One more thing. Sorry. I can't I always say that any hate. No, no. Okay. This is cold. If if there's a law firm owner watching this right now and they are having the worst year of their business, what is the first thing that they can do any or take?

SPEAKER_05 44:52

They should they should follow me on LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_03 44:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 44:55

They should DM me. Okay. I will get them some videos. I'll send them a free copy of my book. I'll have them I'll try to help them. I'll try to give them some resources and they can turn it around. There's not, I haven't, there's not whether they're divorce or immigration or or or personal injury, like there's there's nobody I haven't been able to at least give some guidance to. And I get calls all the time that our calls are down. But here's the key don't wait. So I have a good, good law school friend who called me recently and he says, Yeah, my stuff's been going down. How long? Three years. Why are you calling me now? The reason the data is so good. So let's say our average is 980 calls a week, and we go from 900 to 1100, right? Yeah. And you see it every week. But then if you start seeing it do this after three or four weeks, what's going on? Not when it gets down here, it's after two, three weeks we're watching it. You know, when you look at your numbers, it's like this big spotlight that that goes on it, right? So what gets measured gets done. And if you aren't watching your data, you won't know. So what's going on? What's what's what's changed? What have you done differently with your marketing? Did you not post enough social media this month? Did you lower your buy for TV or radio? Uh did you, you know, did you stop taking those lunches with those referral sources? What happened? There's answers. It's not just, did somebody big move into your market? You didn't pivot, you didn't react. I could keep going, right? Something happened.

SPEAKER_03 46:23

Sure.

SPEAKER_05 46:24

And so we fix it. You could fix it. We could fix it. And so you want to know you want to you want to do that early, not not later. The sooner you the sooner you catch it, the sooner we can fix it.

SPEAKER_02 46:37

I want to mention one other thing that Mike had done one year. It was one of the coolest uh gifts that I've received. It was addressed to me. My name was within the book. It was a book of quotes. Gratitude book. And I was like, wait, how did I even make this list? And it it had my name in it. Uh, I was it was one of the more remarkable things, and this is his his gift of thoughtfulness but brilliance.

SPEAKER_05 47:06

So, you want to talk about that for a second? Please. I mean, it's called uh our gratitude books. We we now do those quarterly. We send those to past clients, you could send it to doctors, judges, adjusters, family, friends, and uh it's basically a book of gratitude quotes that I picked. Half a dozen I wrote. And the book has Adam's name on it. It'll say, uh, I'm grateful for Adam Warren by Mike Morse. Adam's name is on the spine, it's on the back. If you open it up, it says Dear Adam. It talks about it, it says, Dear, it says, Adam, text me your favorite quote in the book. And then it gets quote, quote, then it gives 300 quotes. Nowhere in the book does it say, hey, by the way, if you need an auto accident later, call me, right? So the best part about the book is it's it's it was it was a strategy for my ex older clients because we weren't connecting with them how I thought we should. We weren't, you know, we send them emails and whatever, but I I would I'm really grateful for them. So so we sent them a book. They don't throw them away. You're not throwing away a book with your name on it.

SPEAKER_02 48:08

No, never.

SPEAKER_05 48:09

I sent one to my cardiologist. True story. I walk into his office a year later. It's the only book on his welcome table. Why? Because it's a gratefulness book for my doctor. Yeah, my clients walk around with it. I had a client, this is embarrassing a little bit. Client walked in with it. And I said, Oh, you want me to sign it? She's like, she's like, No, I carry it with me everywhere I go. She reads it. It's a it's a motivating thing.

SPEAKER_04 48:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:34

So our fireproof clients have have a deck where they can order them at my cost and send them out to their clients. And so they get hundreds, if not thousands, of text messages. This is my favorite quote. And you get more, they refer you more cases. That's definitely an ROI. You don't, I don't do it for that, but you do it, and it works because we all have past clients and we all do a crappy job of staying in touch with them. Guilty. It's been a and this is one of the things we do to tell our ex-clients we love them. And anyway, we're grateful for you. And I send it to my good friends, and I send it to whoever I want.

SPEAKER_02 49:12

I loved it. Mike, you've been an amazing guest. Thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having me on. I absolutely love you. Very nice to meet you.

SPEAKER_06 49:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 49:19

This is great.

SPEAKER_00 49:21

Thanks for joining Open and Raw, brought to you by Raw Law Media and Open Jar Concepts. We had such a cool guest in Mike Morse. He discusses that to stand out. You need to be Cherry Garcia. Be funny, do what others don't, be different because it works. That's what we got from Mike Morse. Go get the Fireproof book. The audio is awesome, by the way. No matter what business you're in, there's lessons for all of us in there. Until the next time, stay open minded and keep those conversations raw.