Ep 27: Interview with PA Danielle Kepics

Lacey and Alex meet with Danielle Kepics, Board Certified Physician Assistant, fertility educator, nutrition coach and former mental health therapist, personal trainer and FEM educator. Danielle shares some of her wisdom and experience with helping women through the hormonal changes of perimenopause and menopause. We also venture down the trail of parenthood a bit towards the end. 

linkedin.com/in/daniellekepics

https://www.empoweredmindbody.co/

https://www.empoweredmedicine.co/

https://www.instagram.com/danielle.kepics/?hl=en

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:04

Welcome to Doeless Unhinged, the podcast where we tell the unfiltered truth and disrupt the accepted view of modern birth and parenting.

SPEAKER_06 0:12

We're your hosts, Alex Shaw and Lacey Morgan, here to cut through the noise, share the stories no one else will, and empower you with real talk that's equal parts honest, funny, and unapologetic. Let's get unhinged.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Love her so much. Oh my god, I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_06 0:35

Yeah, it's going to be really exciting to have uh Danielle on today because what she does is so different than what everybody else does. It is. So Alex has um given me a little bit of background, uh, but we were hoping that maybe you would give us a more formal intro.

SPEAKER_04 0:53

Yeah, a little bit about me, what I do, who I am, all that kind of good stuff. Okay. Is this a PG-rated podcast? No. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:03

We know you, and you the two of you, and actually I'll include myself, but the two of you speak the same language. So great. Yeah, I love that. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:12

Yeah. Hi, I'm Danielle Kepic. Um, I am we'll start with the formal stuff first. I'm a board certified physician assistant. I have been for the past 12 years. Um, before that, I was a mental health therapist and personal trainer. So I've lived multiple lives. Um, I've let my FEM certification go because I just wasn't doing that work, but I am, I was a, was, am a um for certified fertility educator, functional diagnostic nutrition practitioner, and nutrition coach. So um I have a really wide lens in which I look at people and bring it down myopically and help people help women specifically heal. I do work with some men. Um, but yeah, I work with everything from like MCAS and histamine to perimenopause, metabolic health, blood sugar issues, yada yada, yada. So that's a little bit about me professionally personally. I am clearly authentic chaos. Um like um I live in southern Utah with my boyfriend and my two fur babies. Um, I have no no no children with two legs. And I love being outside, being in my hammock, romantic novels, Taylor Swift. Um, and yeah, that's like a little bit about me. That Taylor Swift thing usually throws people a little bit. I'm like, don't try to put me in a hole. Like, don't try to put me into a box. Like, I will crush your boxes to no extent. So yeah, that's a little bit about me. I'm very outspoken, I'm very opinionated, um, but I'm also really I I respect other people's opinions and stuff too. So I just I I don't know how heated this could get, but like if you think differently than me, like that's okay, and that's what's really great about America.

SPEAKER_06 2:51

I love that. I know, I know so much because being your true authentic self is probably, in my opinion, the most important thing that you will do in your life, right? Because otherwise your life is just a sham. And so that authenticity is so welcome here, and we're here to hear your opinions.

SPEAKER_04 3:11

Yeah, I love it. Let's go.

SPEAKER_03 3:13

Yes, all right. I I don't even know where to begin because like you can speak to so much in women's health. Well, okay, how did you get into it? Oh, yeah, that's a good point. Let's start there.

SPEAKER_04 3:24

Like my like my current, yeah. So, how how did I get into in very interested in women's health altogether? So we can go way back to like my mother having breast cancer and dying from breast cancer. And like, I mean, I don't want to spend a lot of time on all that nonsense, but I think that that was really even subconsciously, like my friend Brennan always says, like, oh, weird, I turned like my trauma into a career, and I'm like, oh, weird, me too.

SPEAKER_06 3:47

Yeah, so many of us do.

SPEAKER_04 3:49

Yeah, you know, and so um I think that that was really a catalyst. And then, you know, I I went to counseling school and I was just like, you know, I don't, this is not, I don't have patience for people who don't understand that you need to change. Like, I just I I have a therapist, I've had multiple therapists, I find so much value in it. I am not the person who can perform that job. I use those skills a lot in the work that I do because for a number of reasons, but it is not the primary myopic thing that I feel I am best at. And so I pivoted and someone uh ended up, I was a personal trainer at the time, and she brought me a slip and she said, I think you might like this career. And it was about physician assistance. And I was like, Oh, I like that I don't have to like be pigeonholed into one thing for the rest of my life because that always felt like really stressful to me. Yeah, because I I'm like a toddler that never grew up. I just kept asking why and why and why. And that's part of the reason why I got out of conventional medicine because so many, um, in my opinion, for whatever it's worth, I think so many conventional medicine practitioners get very indoctrinated just based on the this is what I do and this is what I offer, and I cannot question the system. Like it's just so robotic, and that's not me. And so I went to PA school. I did travel PA work for a while, and I was like helping, I I always kind of had this entrepreneurial spirit where I was like helping other other girls like trying to get into PA school. I was helping them write their personal statements, and I was doing this on the side while I was doing travel PA work. And anyways, I was like active on the internet even way back when, and I found women like Jolene Brighton and Nicole Jardim and Carrie Jones and like all of these really, really bright women in in the women's health field. And I was like, hmm, they make a whole lot of sense. Like this is really interesting. And so I was like, oh, well, like this this obviously makes sense. Like, why would we shut down our menstrual cycle and we would never shut down a man's testosterone? And you know, it just started making so much sense. And I had a marina IUD in at the time, and I was like, well, this is gonna go. Anyone who knows me will not be surprised that when I decide I'm gonna do something, it's full steam ahead. I'm an Aries, I'm an Enneagram mate. There are no breaks. Like, there are no breaks. Okay, like she don't know what those are at all. Uh and so I um I I had my marina taken out and it took me, I had been under-eating um a very short period of my life. I spent like really obsessed with like macro counting. I quickly got out of that, but um coming off of birth control and stopping macro counting at once was uh I don't recommend that experience. It took six months to get to even get a period back, so I was obviously not in good health. And I was like, why the fuck were nobody talking about this? Why is this not taught in PA school? Why is this not taught in med school? And this is not a knock to my physician assistant program. This is not, you know, I always like to make that very clear. Um, but like, why isn't this being taught that like it shuts down your cycle? Like, I didn't, as a medical provider, I did not fully understand that. And I'm like, there's no way, not and not that women are stupid, but there is no way that most women who don't have a medical degree understand what they are actually doing to their bodies when they are taking this pill. So, like, where the fuck is the informed consent? Like it's non-existent, right? Like, oh, you might get a blood clot, oh bye-bye, you know, and it's just like by the way, more common than you think, the blood clots with birth control. So that's the really overarching, like two cent version of like all of the compilating big life events that really led me here. And then into my own business and out of conventional medicine, COVID was a massive, massive catalyst for that. I was like, I cannot stay in this system. I gotta fucking go. Whoop, we out.

SPEAKER_06 7:42

So you started your private practice then. Um, kind of in that it's time to exit the status quo. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:53

Love it. I it's really amazing to me that that was that many years, like six years ago, because I'm like, I'm still traumatized from working in conventional medicine from that shit.

SPEAKER_03 8:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:03

So yeah, man, it's it's been it's been really a journey. I had started my business part-time before I got out of conventional medicine, um, which was really, really helpful. And, you know, now I'm, you know, we're we're booming and we're doing really well. I mean, I listen, I did, I've I did really great right out of right right out of the gate, which was I was very thankful for. And now I started offering hormone replacement therapy Utah only. Um, I can work with you in other capacities outside of Utah, but Utah only for HRT, and I'm really, really excited to get that off the ground and moving and provide actual quality HRT to women who want it and who are looking for it as opposed to um the really shitty narratives that are out there in conventional medicine. Because man, the things women come to me and say, it's just I couldn't make it up if I wanted to.

SPEAKER_06 8:54

So who is a good candidate for HRT?

SPEAKER_04 8:58

Oh, great question. Um, most women are most women who are in perimenopause or postmenopausal. So perimenopause be begin can begin at 35, and it's a 10 to 15 year neuroendocrine transition that women go through, right? Where hormones are changing, your brain is remodeling. There's a lot of changes that are happening in perimenopause. Um, so if you're over the age of 35 and you're having symptoms, I think it's worth a discussion. That doesn't automatically mean like you know, most women between the ages of 35 and 40 if we're having perimenopausal symptoms, um, improving lifestyle, herbal things can really do a lot during that time. So I don't love to jump to drugs, hormones. I mean, they're the same as what our body makes, right? Like I don't use like the synthetic stuff, like we're not using progestins and other things. Um, but I think that there is something to say for your body, like doing as much as it can for as long as it can, right? If we're feeling good. Um and then, you know, most women are candidates for some type of hormones. I know there's a lot of scary information out there. Well, if you've had cancer, if you've had a blood clot, or you have factor five leiden in your family, or you know, you've had this GYN cancer, and really the number of women who cannot receive any type of HRT, it's very slim. So, and of course it requires a practitioner who's willing, especially in in the cancer realm, like working with your oncologist or doing uh further investigation, if you do have certain genetic predispositions for clotting or cancers or things like that, and having a a a full discussion about informed consent. But there are very, very few women who it is just like, okay, we cannot do this. Like active cancer, okay. Like, because estrogen is proliferative. We know this, and that's you know, I mean, it it's it's also why even if you don't have a uterus, I like to see progesterone with astradiol. Um, but most women are candidates if they are interested in it and it's appropriate and it's safe for them, right? So um, what I'm not for, like in order to work with me for hormone replacement therapy, you have to go through what I call a hormone strategy session where I you we do a 90-minute deep dive, you get a full comprehensive blood panel, um, you full out, you full out, you fill out a hormone safety assessment. So I'm looking at all of your like any type of risk factors, like when did you go through menopause if you did? And if you have a higher like atherosclerotic risk for any type of reason, and you know, do we need to be doing CACs, coronary artery calcium scores on people? Do we need to be doing ultrasounds? Um, you know, have you had erratic postmenopausal? Have you had abnormal postmenopausal bleeding? Um, which is concerning, right? Like all those things need to be looked at before we just like willy-nilly initiate things. And so um, I use that that is a mandatory session in order to go into services with money to make sure that you are safe and appropriate because the other thing I'm not doing is this bullshit with 28-year-old early 30s women who are under-eating, over-exercising, they're being thrown on an HRT. It is irresponsible. And I just I really cringe at the providers who are doing this. And for the person who's going to well, the what about me ism out there, like I understand that there may be certain circumstances where we are talking about someone who is in severe eating disorder and we need to preserve bone health, and they're working with a an eating disorder dietitian, and they're in an output and they're in a in they're in a mental health program, and they're working with multiple different okay, like there are there is a time and a place, but for the most part, like I am not going to be like, oh, you don't have a period and you're 28. Like, great, here's your HRT. I mean, it's just it's wild the shit that I hear that's going on out there.

SPEAKER_06 12:29

So yeah. So what are some of the perimenopausal symptoms that uh you might start to see as early as 35?

SPEAKER_04 12:39

Yeah. So the earliest symptoms that women are reporting are number one, sleep disturbance, and number two, which is so specific, I just don't feel like myself. Like I know that that's it's so vague, right? But like they just start to feel like something isn't right. Um, fatigue is a big one, change in sex drive is another energy, I said fatigue, but like and just energy levels throughout the day. Blood work can start to shift. Like I have a gal who she is, I mean, she's 42, I think, but her fasting insulin went from like four to nine. And could just be a fluke, could be something weird, you know, whatever. But I was like, hmm, like, do we need like let's make sure we recheck this in like three to six months, right? Because we know that metabolic changes can be really fast in perimenopause. So certain lab changes um we can see, um GI GI issues, phantom smells, burning tongue. Um, I mean, there's just so many, there's over a hundred symptoms of perimenopause, but I would say sleep disturbance, mood, and energy are three of the biggest. And, you know, I I know maybe both of you are sitting here thinking this. Um, and also I'm sure someone else is like, well, that could be a thousand things. Well, yeah, no fucking shit. And so this is this is why you can't work with someone who is just like everything is perimenopause or nothing is perimenopause. You have to be working with someone who understands the complexity of health and that everything is interconnected. And listen, I love that perimenopause is having its moment in the sun. Like, glob bless America, but like it not everything is perimenopause. Like, do you have a thyroid problem? Are you under eating or are you over exercising? How are your boundaries? Are you sleeping? Like, are you drinking alcohol? Are you having too much caffeine? You know, do you get outside in the sun? Are your relationships shit? Like, so these are things that, you know, there is a whole host of investigation that we need to do that before we just say, Oh, it's party menopause. Like, I've like I love it and I hate it at the same time. It just like makes me want to stab people and hug somebody at the same time.

SPEAKER_06 14:45

Like, I don't yeah, you know, yeah. Well, I think that you see that happen uh with kind of everything in the medical system, right? Like it's you get this kind of um momentum, right? You get you get momentum with a particular oh, there's the term for that.

SPEAKER_04 15:07

It's like it's something bias, some bias or um oh um yeah.

SPEAKER_06 15:13

So I I can't remember uh you know exactly what it is, what it's called, but this idea where there's a new concept and a lot of people are experiencing it, and and then it becomes the thing. It's kind of like how every single person is a narcissist. If they piss you off and you don't like them, right, then they're automatically a narcissist.

SPEAKER_04 15:37

Yes, yes. I really love that conversation right now. Can please persist.

SPEAKER_06 15:44

But so I feel like perimenopause is kind of the same thing, where to your point, people are like, oh my gosh, I'm just perimenopause. And it's like, no, you eat a crappy standard American diet, you're not getting sleep, you don't you like you scroll your phone instead of sleep, right? Your stress level is high and you do nothing to manage it, right? But oh, but it's perimenopause. And I am I am guilty as charged, right?

SPEAKER_04 16:10

It's a I'm gonna piss people off with this, but I think there's a lot of women in midlife using perimenopause as a scapegoat for the reason that they're fat, they're out of shape, and they don't want to get off the couch, and you know, all of these other things. And listen, I it is a massive change, but I you it's not it's not a I want to um the word finding abilities also a sign from the okay.

SPEAKER_05 16:38

I'm like, what's a box cult that's cold that you put food into?

SPEAKER_04 16:42

God, it's so fucking painful. But it doesn't, you know, you don't have to be chained to the wall of like, oh, everyone gains weight and perimetopause and everyone feels awful. And I just feel like it's become this like, oh, what was me, you know, type type situation. And it doesn't have to be that. Like, if you take care of yourself, listen, you're still you're probably still gonna have symptoms, you're probably, you know, still gonna have a a night or two or whatever of of sleep issues through your cycles, and and you're gonna feel the the erratic estrogen and and yada yada yada. However, we can really mitigate that. And you can build muscle in your 40s and you can improve your body composition, and you can feel better than you did in your 20s or 30s if you treated your body like a dumpster fire. And I just I really do think that um it has become this excuse for contentment in a lot of situations, and that is not to say that there are there aren't women out there who aren't suffering really, really badly, because I know that that also exists. Like both things can exist at the same time, and not everything is about you on the internet, okay?

SPEAKER_06 17:53

Right. It's it's so true. And I think that that propensity for self-diagnosis comes from a tradition of medical care in which women's health was primarily brushed off as like this is just in your head, right? And and it's there's no physical explanation for it, right? And and so then we're like, okay, well, if you're not going to help me, I'm going to go to Dr. Google because at least Dr. Google doesn't tell me that I'm crazy. Although, you know, everything leads to death on Google. So there's that, uh, there's that flip side of it.

SPEAKER_04 18:32

Cancer and death. Cancer and death.

SPEAKER_06 18:33

Yes. Yes. So talk to us just briefly, like high-level overview. What is the hormone cycle of a woman who is healthy throughout her like her menstrual cycle? Like, what does that look like? And why is this, like, why do you keep re referencing estrogen?

SPEAKER_04 18:55

Uh, are we talking in primary productive years in a healthy woman? Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 18:59

And then to the shift of what is happening in genetics.

SPEAKER_04 19:03

So high level, you have two phases to your menstrual cycle. When we say menstrual cycle, we're talking about how many days total, not how many days you bleed. Those period and menstrual cycle are two different terms, right? And so you have two different phases. You have your follicular phase, which is roughly, you know, the first 50% of your cycle, however long, let's just say 15 days, if you are having a 30-day cycle, and uh your luteal phase, which is the second half, and 15 more days to give you a 30-day cycle, right? So follicular phase is estrogen dominant, and by estrogen dominant, I don't mean you're having estrogen dominant symptoms. I just mean that it is the prominent hormone in that part of your menstrual cycle, and then you have your luteal phase where progesterone, after you ovulate, becomes the most dominant hormone. Um, what was the second part of the question that you asked me?

SPEAKER_06 19:48

What's shifting as you measure into perimenopause?

SPEAKER_04 19:52

Yes, and so the the first changes that women see typically are not cycle changes. So for I'll speak to myself because that's an easy thing for me to talk about because I can feel what's going on in my body and I know what I'm doing. Um, I am a human who takes I I would say really excellent care of herself. Like I don't drink alcohol, I sleep eight to nine hours tonight, I strength train, I get my steps in, um, I hydrate myself, I lick vegetables on a regular basis. Like check, check, check, check, check, all the things, right? Just so people who who are listening who don't know me. And so um the first things that women typically notice, like I said, are sleep disturbance. I probably started noticing that like four years ago. I started to become like not like I became much more sensitive to bad sleep, meaning uh that uh one of the things that happens in perimenopause too is our stress systems change. So our resilience to stress is different. Things that you could tolerate before, like your husband chewing loud, like slit your throat and play in your blood. Okay, like just it's a no. Um so stress resilience starts to started to go, um, things like that started to irritate me, smells like I became so much more hypersensitive to things. And I personally think that in five to ten years, we are going to see a massive tie between histamine issues and perimenopause. I think that there is something that is happening when women go through perimenopause with hormone shifting that is causing so many women to have histamine issues, which is a whole other conversation, and I have no proof of that. It's a total Danielle Keppixism, okay? No double blind sleep controlled trial. So I think that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_06 21:29

So when she's right in five to ten years, it'll be like, I told you so. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:34

Yep. Mm-hmm. So um, I don't have any real cycle changes. I'm about a 26 to 28 day cycle girly. I have been since I got my period back back in 2019. Um, and I was how old? Was that seven years ago? 35? So I was like right at that age where when I like had the morena taken out, right? Um no cycle changes, no period changes, like no. No like no follicular phase length changes, no luteal phase length changes, right? Because those can also be signs. But I did start to notice the sleep issues and mood. So for me, I started. I think that there are different hormone types. Like I think, you know, Carrie Jones has been very outspoken about talking about her Dutch test and showing them she's 49 and she still makes impressive, like stupid fucking amounts of estrogen. And I'm like, can you share with me, please, ma'am? Can you please like send some my way? She's like, I would love to. Um, you know, whereas like I am, I have just never been a high estrogen type person. I don't know why. And I don't have, again, I don't have any double blind placebo control trial to show that. But I started having like these very like like like painful, emotionally painful, like nostalgic feelings in my um early follicular phase. Um, and so I think I was having some issues with estrogen rising and the way FSH was responding to estrogen, and my blood work has shown some of that too. That's kind of nitty, nitty-grittier stuff to get into. Um, and just feeling like really like dat like sad for me. And I'm like, this is not normal. And I was leaving my friend Brooke a voice memo and I was like, you know, I think I'm I think I'm gonna like get on an estrogen patch in my just for a little bit of support. I know there's a lot of thoughts about, you know, oh, the patch is like old school and like this and that and blah, blah, blah, and physiologic hormone dosing and whatever. And I'm still making a good amount of my own hormone, but I was like, I'm not gonna suffer. Like, I don't have to. And so I like literally stopped the voice memo with her and sent a text message to my gynecologist because I was like, we're not gonna do this. Like, I don't have to, and I don't want to. And it, you know, I'm not saying that women have to like earn their HRT by doing all the things. However, don't come to me crying if you're drinking alcohol multiple times a month. You you you treat your body like a dumpster fire, you're living off of caffeine. This is decaf, by the way. Um, you don't exercise, you don't move your body, you haven't licked a vegetable all week, like none of that stuff. Like it's just we have other steps that we we have other levers that we need to pull, in my opinion, because you could be fine and then we overdose you and you have like tender breasts and you're bleeding heavy and you fucking hate me if I throw you on estrogen. So I started to notice the moves. And then I the other thing that I've noticed is my sleep. Um, the last couple of days of my cycle, I've started taking like a very low dose um compounded progesterone, like 25 milligrams the last three to four days of um my cycle, just to make sure that I get that good sleep. And let me tell you, the dreams are fucking wild. Like allopregnant alone is really doing its thing on my fucking brain. Um, but yeah, I mean, like I'm taking a low dose estrogen. I'm in my follicular phase. I'm I'm taking a low dose progesterone and I'm also on testosterone, like not ridiculous doses. Um, but yeah, those are some of the things that I started to notice. And what women probably need to understand about what goes on is that progesterone slowly declines. I don't know if you do video, but like slowly declines like this, and estrogen does this.

SPEAKER_07 25:03

It's waving all through all through very menopause.

SPEAKER_04 25:08

Now, not so much for me where I am, like it's kind of it's really steady, but once we start to skip cycles, women really report that high low, high, low, high low. And that's really where like creams can be a better option. It's like let's use a cream instead of just slapping a patch on it. So, like if you're if you're feeling like you're getting too high, like we can just pull back on it, we're not wasting like three days of a patch, right? Um, so yeah, that's a little bit about how how the cycle works and how it can change and at least what I've been experiencing so far.

SPEAKER_06 25:37

When you describe sleep disturbances, what are you referencing?

SPEAKER_04 25:43

Great question. So typically for women, this most of my women that I work with, at least it looks like I fall asleep super easy, but I'm waking up between one and three in the morning, and or I wake up at four or five and I can't go back to sleep. Now, I want to be really clear that the number one reason for this is under-eating and overexercising. 1000%. Like that is a huge signal that you are undernourished and you are over pushing your boundaries.

SPEAKER_06 26:09

Is that because the body is responding to the stress of not of the calorie deficit?

SPEAKER_04 26:16

Blood sugar drops and the cortisol spikes and the cortisol.

SPEAKER_06 26:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:20

Yeah. So if you that is the number one thing that I look at. And so the first thing that I do if those women are having issues with sleep disturbance like that, I say, we're gonna add a nighttime snack. Like, let's add a bowl of yogurt, fruit, granola. Um, and I would say 80% of the time it works.

SPEAKER_05 26:38

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 26:39

80%. I mean, people women are so I could talk about this all day long. Women are so underfueled. And if you're on a GLP one and you're under 150 pounds, like stop it. Like get off, get off of your vanity anorexia train.

SPEAKER_06 26:52

Like just stop it.

SPEAKER_04 26:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 26:54

The condoned body dysmorphia that's going on right now is pharmaceutical anorexia. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, and then we see people on GLP1s whose hair is falling out, and their doctors just like, well, that's like a normal symptom. No, no, it's not. It's a sign that your body is not nourished. That's what that's telling you. Like animals whose hair is falling out, we call them unhealthy. Right?

SPEAKER_04 27:20

Like, we should not be we also call animals unhealthy when you can see their bones, but apparently in humans, we call that beauty, which is disgusting, just to be clear. Yeah, demi more. If you are saying that demi more looks healthy, go check yourself into an impatient psych unit.

SPEAKER_05 27:37

Right? Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_04 27:38

So I I'm not even kidding about that. Like that, like you have something fucking wrong with your brain.

SPEAKER_07 27:44

100%.

SPEAKER_04 27:44

Like, not to talk shit on like other women in their bodies and stuff. Like, I but I I've seen it so much in my feed people talking about demi more right now.

SPEAKER_06 27:53

Well, and it's interesting, right? Because I think it we're witnessing once again the pendulum swing, right? Uh the 80s where skinny was the way to go, and like everyone sought to have their ribs showing, and then you know, we swung swung the other way to uh reduce fat phobia, right? And curves are beautiful, and all curves are beautiful, and all bodies are beautiful, and that's true, right? And I think now we're swinging back, which is just about right on time, um, right? Because what did it last from 80s to 2000? And then 2000, you know, we had body later, yeah, 20 years later, bell bottoms, and you know, back to skinny, right? Like, I think we're just kind of in that pattern. Um what were you gonna say?

SPEAKER_03 28:39

No, I'm and I'm with you too, Danielle. Like, I'm not all about talking shit on you know, anybody. Um, but it is sad, it's it's sad.

SPEAKER_06 28:48

Yeah, well, and for me, I think it's sad that it is uh so readily handed out. Like for people who need GLP ones, I think it's wonderful, right? But but to your point, if you're under 150 pounds and you're on a GLP one to just lose those, you know, 10 extra pounds, like it's concerning to me because it it kind of harkens back to the same idea of oh, you're having acne or painful periods. Oh, yeah, here's some birth control, right?

SPEAKER_03 29:19

Yeah, let's just slap that band-aid on. Right, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_04 29:23

We're giving out band band, we're giving out band-aids when people actually need surgery, metaphorically speaking. Yeah, right. Yeah, what's really concerning to me is not the person asking for it, but the practitioners who continue to write for it. Yeah, like you're responsible, and like I'm gonna point the finger at you when we have an osteoporosis crisis on our hands in five to ten years. Yeah, because let me tell you, the women I see at my gym, again, not to talk shit on people, and everybody has their battles, and I don't mean to be any kind of way, but I'm like, you look disgusting. Like you look, you look, I'm more I like I like I want to go up and say something and be like, maybe disgusting is really probably a bad word, but like it's unhealthy. Yes, it is scary. And I'm like, like I you know, I mean, I men don't think that's sexy, first of all. Like, if that's who you're trying to impress, like that's no. Um, yeah, it's it's really, really scary out there, and I have no respect for practitioners who continue to condone it. And these people on the internet caught who are asking you to comment stack for their recent stack, like can just, I mean, you can jump off a cliff, and I feel really strongly about that. Like, yeet yourself off the internet and take the people with their shirts off in the grocery store aisles with you.

SPEAKER_06 30:39

Yeah. I think that um, you know, this kind of goes back to what you were talking about earlier, which is that practitioners are trained to pedal drugs without really understanding the implication, right? So the pharmaceutical companies come in, they're like, hey, here's this great product, it can prescribe it without really looking into what it's doing to the bodies of your patients.

SPEAKER_04 31:06

Yeah. Yeah. I have no notes, not a single note. And also who fun, I mean, one note, who funds medical schools, right? Who who funds the tri the studies? Yeah, it it's it's very scary. Listen, if you if you're not thinking about that, you ain't awake. We are we are living in two very different universes. Yeah. If you ain't thinking about that stuff, because yeah, I mean the the studies about like glucose control and diabetes that are funded by a Pepsi. I'm like, yeah, like I don't want to read that.

unknown 31:37

Like, what are we doing?

SPEAKER_07 31:39

Right.

SPEAKER_04 31:40

Sorry, not to get not to get off the I mean, we can go back to perimenopause and hormones and things, not to like I took a hard laugh. So sorry.

SPEAKER_06 31:47

Yeah, that's okay. That's all good. Listen, the word dual is unhinged for a reason, right? Because we want to we want to have the conversations that people aren't having, right? And and just give our listeners an opportunity to pause and think about what has been accepted from the standard quo and the traditional medical model. Uh, you know, there are great benefits of the medical system and there are incredible shortfallings. And I think that, you know, having these conversations and and we are seeing the change in uh the birth culture, right? The the standard practices are shifting.

SPEAKER_05 32:30

Let me check your cervex.

SPEAKER_06 32:32

Yeah, they're they're shifting, right? Because we are seeing the consumers, the one who is bringing the money, we're seeing them demand something different. And so the wise practitioners in the area are shifting with them. Um, and they're not afraid of it. I I do have a question returning kind of to the topic of origin. Uh, what is your thought or or what is your knowledge on you? You referenced some herbal options. So uh what are some of those things? Like I know about wild yam cream, right? And I know people are using berberine and things like that. So, like what are your what are your recommendations or like what are the things you're mentioning?

SPEAKER_04 33:18

Yeah, one of my favorite go-tos um when women have symptoms of low progesterone or I see it on a lab um is Vitex or Chase Tree. Uh, works really great. You need to cycle it in and out, but a really, really great option works wonderful for a lot of women. Um, Shadavari can be really great for low estrogen, can also be good for low progesterone. That's another favorite um maca, specifically the feminiscence brand, no affiliation. Um, but they are there are different phenotypes of maca, and you have to be using the appropriate one. And so they have a couple of different blends for um like prime reproductive years, perimenopause, and then postmenopause. I use that a lot. Um, those are the three that I have that I really, really stick to for like hormonal things. Um, I love inocitol for blood sugar. Um uh berberine can be great too. I don't know why, but I've never really gravitated strongly towards berberine, maybe because I think of it as like a SIBO herb. Um and it does a lot of things, right? Which is great. I don't have any like like hate for berberine or anything negative to say about it. Um you know, people are calling it like nature's ozampic, which kind of makes me want to vomit. Um yeah, and then like other herbs that I use are really more uh targeted towards like gut protocol, like specific gut protocols. But I will say like things like nettles for histamine, nettle tea can be great, dandelion can be really great for gallbladder support. Um skull cap is also really great for um histamine support as well. So those are just some of the ones that come to mind right off the top of my head.

SPEAKER_03 34:55

Can you talk a little bit about histamines?

SPEAKER_04 34:57

Yeah, what do you want me to tell us? What do you want me to say about it?

SPEAKER_03 34:59

Talk what are what are histamine? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:02

His so histamine, so mast cell when we talk about histamines, you really kind of have to talk about mast cell activation syndrome. And so um what happens is you have a mast cell, which is a uh and inside of it are histamines, interleukins, other inflammatory things, and when we're stressed and other types of issues, they live in our connective tissue, right? And so they open and all the shit comes flooding out, and you get quote unquote histamine symptoms. So you get allergies, you get rashes, you get um diarrhea is a histamine symptom, insomnia, bladder, bladder irritation, um, frequent urination, feeling just heat. Um so we know that COVID, and I personally think the COVID vaccine probably caused issues, but we know with COVID, the actual virus, um, the ACE2 receptor, um, I can't remember if the ACE2 receptors on the COVID virus are on the mast cell, forgive me. Um, but it be it I think it attaches to the ACE2 receptor, the COVID virus, and it pops it open. So that's why we're seeing so many, in my opinion, histamine and mast cell activation issues now. And I also think I really, really, really think that in five to ten years we're going to see see like major studies that are saying, like, oh, like women in perimenopause also all have histamine issues or like a big portion, you know, whatever. Um, and so it's re I have a oh god, I have a girl who just started with me and she sent me a picture of her face. I mean, and it is just a cherry, a swollen cherry tomato right now. Um, I mean, there are really women out there who are suffering with it. And the problem with um histamine is that at its root it is a nervous system disorder. And so when people have symptoms, they get anxious about it and their symptoms get worse, right? And so lots of different things are stressors, put stress on the body between um the shitty traffic that you're in, the workout that you did, um, getting poor sleep, which can be a symptom of histamine, but it's also a stressor on the body. And so we really need to look at like lowering that stress bucket um when it comes to histamine. And it it can take like when I have a girl who I'm just about to finish up with, and she's a frequent flyer, like internationally, five to eight times a year, and she flies like 10 to 12 times a year. And I'm like, she her she started with me, she had an MSQ of like 51, which is like her symptom severity score, and she's down to a six. She's like, she's doing really great, but she's like, I still have this insomnia, and like I've I'm getting a little bit of diarrhea back, and like, oh fuck, because she was a SIBO, or I'm like, okay, but and she just keeps telling me about this heat when she wakes up in the middle of the night and I'm like, this is a fucking histamine issue, and I know it. But she's like, I'm not getting like I'm not getting any weird vibes about like she's she's not super high stress, like this or that. And now I'm like, man, like she's working out appropriately, she's she's increased her calories by like four or five hundred, she's feeling great. I'm like, man, what what is going on? And so I finally asked her, I said, uh, does flying stress you out? She goes, I'm a very nervous flyer. I became a very nervous flyer a couple of years ago. I never would have thought it because of how much she flies. And so when we I say this because she's releasing all this histamine when she gets anxious at takeoff and she's having all these issues and she's never recovering from it because it takes like three months to recover from a hu a huge histamine dump.

SPEAKER_07 38:16

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 38:17

So it's really, you know, we nine I I've not worked with someone with histamine where I'm not saying like we need to get on Zertec, we need to get on Pepsid, we need to use these tools right now because if we don't, we're not it we're literally sitting in a boat with a hole in the ground and we're trying to we're trying to get the water out with a bucket. So um it's a really interesting. I I I've had a lot, I I just signed on really, really two really complex histamine mast cell clients who are going to really challenge me um for sure. And I just had like three who are finishing up with me. Um, but yeah, I can the the problem with it too is it it uh it can be any system of the body. And so people send you to a dermatologist, they send you to an immunologist, they send you to all this allogist, the GI doctor, the gynecologist, all the allogists, right? But it's like, okay, this is a nervous system-based disorder. And if we are not really in our stress, um you're not gonna heal. Like there's so many different angles that we have to come at that from.

SPEAKER_06 39:14

So for somebody like that woman, would an anti-anxiety medication used in advance of her flights? Would that help suppress the release?

SPEAKER_04 39:26

We talked about that. Um, you know, I talked to her about some tools that we could potentially like she's very intelligent. She understands what turbulence is, and you know, she very, very all of the women who come to me are very intelligent. And so I said, you know, it might be worth like risk versus benefit, right? It might be worth taking a Xanax. It might. Now I would urge her to talk. Obviously, I'm not her, I'm not her prescriber, and I said I would, you know, I'm not I'm also not here suggesting just take the drugs like willy-nilly, but like take one before you fly so we know how you respond to it too. Like that's also important, right? If anybody here wants to talk to their practitioner about something like that. Um but yeah, we did talk about that. We talked about like um, you know, what are things that she typically uses for stress management and how can we mimic that on a plane? Um, so you know, and and you know, increasing uh antihistamines and pepsid and you know, wearing um compression socks and making sure we're back hydrating, like we're like really loading up on electrolytes and things like that. So um and using like DAO enzyme during that time too when she eats, like maybe the week leading up to her flight or whatever. So yeah, like there's a lot of tools in the toolbox and a lot of levers we can pull. She I ironically isn't flying until November right now. Um but um It's a good little break.

SPEAKER_02 40:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:49

Yeah, I and I'm curious to see like what um, like I said, I'm just finishing up with her. But yeah, I mean that is definitely something very realistic that we talked about. Like, hey, like this might be a really worthwhile thing for you, but let's try these other things first and see if it's helpful.

SPEAKER_06 41:04

So would you expect to see between say now and August, September, October, would you expect to see her symptoms reduce if it's correlated to the I already have? Okay. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 41:19

Um, so when we talk about histamine, you have H1, H2, and H3. And the H3 are really are more neurological symptoms, H2 are more GI, and she was starting to have this diarrhea. So I started on, I told her to start taking some pepsid and let's see. And like this is not something we have to do forever, but it's like it is a three-month minimum, um, in my clinical opinion and in other people's opinions who are expert, like actual like real, real expert-e in hist histamine issues, right? So yeah, but she already, she's like, my stool is already more solid. Like I'm sleep, I she's like, I just met with her and she's like, I slept through the night. Wow, um, like two or three nights in a row. Yeah, which was just like not happening. So things are already like a ton better. I just never I think even I think even like this is where the placebo effect too can come in, is like knowing what it is.

SPEAKER_07 42:12

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 42:13

Like is really powerful. Yeah. Because when you just have people you're seeing practitioners are like, I don't know, I don't know. Like it's just you like, oh my god, like nobody can figure like that's stressful.

SPEAKER_06 42:25

So so talk to us about you said that you can only do HRT with people in Utah. So what is what are some of the other services that you offer to people anywhere?

SPEAKER_04 42:40

Yeah, so basically I can do anything but prescribe. So um I do intense gut protocols with people. So the main offer that I have is called My Empowered and Intensive. It's a six-month uh period with me where I see you monthly, I talk to you weekly, and um we work on anything that you need to fix, right? So this can be anything from like metabolic health, insomnia. I've seen a lot, I've had a huge uptick in um histamine clients, um, issues that really just have not been solved by conventional medicine. The average person who comes to me has seen three other practitioners before they get to me. Um so whether that's I see a lot of GI issues, diarrhea, constipation, bloating, um hormone issues, painful periods, heavy periods. I have one client right now who probably may have all three, but I'm curious about endometritis, endometriosis, and adenomiosis. So we're going down that route with her and helping her get to the right people. Um missing periods is another one. Energy fatigue is a big one that I work with people with. Um I don't work with weight loss directly. Um, I never promise that. Um, but it's if if people want that and they do the things that I ask, it's usually a byproduct if um that is something they desire from like improving health and habits and things like that.

SPEAKER_06 44:01

Yeah, that's super cool. I know.

SPEAKER_03 44:05

Doing such good work. I'm trying, man. Yeah, you are. You are. I remember when you transitioned, like away from natural medicine. I was like, yes, girl, get it. Do it. Do it. I can't wait to see.

SPEAKER_04 44:20

Yeah, I was like, I gotta go. Yeah. I I gotta really, I can't. It was, I mean, it was just really talk about incongruence. Like it was just eating at my soul. Like I remember spending like 20 minutes with this woman who was newly pre-diabetic, talking to her about like exercise and muscle and nutrition. And she was like, Don't they just make a pill for this? And I literally wanted to say, fuck you. You are the you are everything wrong with this country. And but also free will. So like free will, but also fuck you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 44:54

Well, I I would argue that that is uh you the intended outcome of our um direct-to-consumer advertising of the pharmaceutic pharmaceutical companies, right? Like more and more people are growing up, be aging into adulthood, having had pharmaceuticals directly advertising to them their whole life. And so guess what? Yeah, there's a pill for that for every single problem that you can conceive of, and then for all of the symptoms that come from the medication, there's another pill that you can take to dampen those, right?

SPEAKER_04 45:35

And you know, I I have a girlfriend who is also a PA, and she said, you know, I just think that like we call them side effects of medication, but they're not side effects because they're expected, so they're just effects.

SPEAKER_07 45:47

Right.

SPEAKER_04 45:49

I was like, you ain't wrong. You ain't wrong.

SPEAKER_06 45:52

Our conversation from this point on ventures into the topic of parenthood. So if you're interested in hearing our unhinged views on parenthood, stick around after the outro music and we will leave the rest of the conversation. If this is it for you this week, we thank you for listening and we look forward to seeing you next week. Bye-bye. Thanks for getting unhinged with us today. We hope this conversation challenged you, validated you, or made you laugh out loud. Birth and parenting aren't meant to be perfect or polished, and neither are we.

SPEAKER_03 46:24

If you love this episode, share it with someone who needs real and raw truths. Leave us a review and make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss what we're unraveling next.

SPEAKER_01 46:32

We're Alex Shaw and Lacey Morgan reminding you that your voice matters, your experience is valid, and you're allowed to do this your own way.

SPEAKER_06 46:39

Until next time, stay unhinged.

unknown 46:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:44

Did you guys ever see that uh movie? This is so off topic, kind of on topic. It was called Idiocracy.

SPEAKER_04 46:49

And it was No, I've been told so many times I should see that though.

SPEAKER_03 46:52

That in fucking reading 1984, but I think you would I think you would love it, and you would be like, yup, this is what the world is turning into. Like just dumb ass people. Like yeah, they they would the crowd do what I'm told. Yes. And they were at at one point in this movie, and I don't, I I'm not up on like pop culture stuff. I couldn't tell you the actors that were in the movie. Um, but they're fertilizing plants with like essentially Gatorade, expecting it to grow. And it's just like, and they none of them can read or write. And I'm driving down the I'm driving down something recently, and there was an advertisement for something called spiked, not a clue what it was. I think it was probably alcoholic, but it was spelled S-P K E D. And so I the thought came in like, wow, this is where we're going. Like we can't we're not even spelling things correctly. S-P-I-K-E-D. You know, like I was just like, this is pathetic. What is the world turning into? Like I don't understand.

SPEAKER_04 47:56

Well, no, I was just gonna say, my boyfriend was, you know, he had a martial arts studio for a while here, and you know, he worked with kids, and he's like, kids are dumb. He's like, they don't know their right from their left. They he's like, the homeschooled kids are way smarter than the public school kids. Like leaps and bounds. Like these public school kids, he's like, they can't hold a conversation with me. They they're they they don't look me in the eye. Um, they're they don't know how to tie their shoes, they don't know the right from left, they don't like they don't understand basic things. And I was like, ma'am, I feel like I was like four or five when I tied my shoes. Like and like these kids are like 12.

SPEAKER_06 48:33

Well, okay, so there's I was a public school teacher for 17 years, uh, also homeschool my children, so that should tell you something. Um sure does, yeah, yeah, and I left because I could not be a party to the system anymore. Um, but I I will tell you that over the course of the almost two decades that I taught, I saw children change. Yes, right. I I saw them change, and our system was uh very intentionally set up to reduce critical thinking. And and which is no shit. It is it is so interesting to me because it is all being done under the guise of increasing critical thinking, right? Like all of the testing is supposed to be about measuring their critical thinking skills. But what happened was children became the system of education taught children to sit and wait for somebody to tell them what to do next. And so, whereas when I started teaching, kids would like try something and get it wrong. They would raise their hand and ask questions and they were inquisitive. And uh, it always takes me back to that song. Um, it's like a folk song. The song goes like, you know, roses are red, like you because the kid was coloring some different color, and you know, the teacher's like, no, you're gonna color roses red and trees are green, and right, and that's what the system has done to our children is saying there's no room for any thought that isn't the right thought, and so you will wait for me to give that to you, and it's called indoctrination, yeah, a hundred percent. And then you add into that uh this um ineffective parenting because how many people are walking around with their cell phones in their hands, paying attention to their screen more than their children, right? And we have this uh positive parenting movement where we're never going to tell our children no, and we're, you know, we're not going to guide them in any way, and we're not going to discipline them, and we're not interacting with them. The kids don't talk to your partner because they don't, they were never taught eye contact because they weren't communicated to it used to be that parents would walk through the grocery store and talk to their children. Look at the blue box, look at the cereal, look at this letter X, right? We would have conversations. Now we're on our phones, we have our podcasts in, we're doing all the things. So the interaction is so reduced. It is right, it's getting back to it.

SPEAKER_04 51:10

People get people get really pissed when I talk about parenting because I don't have kids, but I'm like, listen, uh what what is the the gentle parenting?

SPEAKER_02 51:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:19

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:20

No, absolutely. You are a parent, your job is to parent. You are not their friend, right?

SPEAKER_06 51:27

Oh, my kids tell me they hate me all the time, and I'm like, you're welcome. I love you so much. You know, I am making you unhappy to keep you healthy.

SPEAKER_04 51:36

Yeah, I I kind of feel like parents are like therapists, um, in the way that when I have a client who tells me that they're seeing a therapist and I'm getting a feel that like okay, we're we're not doing therapy in therapy, I say, Do you like your therapist? And they look at me and they go, Yeah, I love my therapist. I go, Yeah, but do you hate her 20% of the time? And they go, No, and I go, You're not in therapy, you're venting. And I would say you could replace the terms parenting with friend or however you want to do it with the gentle parenting um trend or or whatever it is of like, well, but tell me about your feelings as they're like screaming. Like, listen, as an innocent bystander, when your child is wailing and you're not parenting, I want to fucking murder you. Yeah. So, and and listen, I know that sometimes like kids are just gonna like toddlers, cry, they scream, like there's things that are uncontrollable. However, I also know that sometimes it's a parenting problem. Yes. And can you please fucking do something about it? Or I don't know the kid on the plane who doesn't have any earphones in on his tablet. Listen, I'm not for tablets with kids, but I'm very thankful for them on planes because like there is a again, it's like Xanax for flying, like there's a time of place. Yeah. Time place. Time of place, the dinner table, no.

SPEAKER_03 52:52

I agree. I was gonna say the same thing. Like out to dinner with your kid, which I don't go out to dinner with my kids, but I have been out. And and it's just like, what are we doing? You're not even having a conversation with your child. The child is, I'm like, I'm gonna piss people off. I don't share this normally. These are my inner thoughts, but like, you know, your kids on a tablet while you're out. Like, I don't understand.

SPEAKER_06 53:15

What are we doing? Because it's because it's easier. And and I think that there's so much social anxiety now because we don't interface with people. I was gonna say, but why? Yeah, right. Because we're not interacting, right? And so I was I was out to breakfast the one day, and the mom had this little bitty baby who was crying, and she said to her parents, you know, oh, I he was so good in church, but now he's being so bad. And I I could I cannot help myself, I cannot keep my mouth shut. I lean over and I go, Your baby is not bad. He is communicating in the only way he knows how and if people don't like that your baby is crying, they can public fuck them.

SPEAKER_04 53:54

Yes, right, yeah, because it you're baby crying very different than very different 12-year-old having a crack. Yes, absolutely a hundred.

SPEAKER_06 54:02

I would say even 12-year-olds. I I would argue even 12-year-olds can have a fit in public on occasion because their prefrontal cortex is not fully developed, right? The problem is that parents have no real training in how to parent. So they are literally just leaving it, right? And the iPad works because it shuts it down because they're embarrassed by their child.

SPEAKER_04 54:26

Here's here's where people really don't like me because I have interesting thought process on this. So let's hear it. I am not saying that women don't deserve to have careers, however, having two parents working, yep. I I truly believe I yes, I a hundred and I am not I am not a traditionalist by any means. Like I live with my boyfriend, we are unmarried, we don't have children, um, we're not religious, and I truly believe that the demise of the secular family and religion in our country has um really caused issues. And again, this is coming from someone who I don't go to church, I don't have a particular um whatever, like I identify with the universe and I'm very spiritual, but I'm not like, you know, you probably I said earlier like dear glob. Like that's like when I think of the my friend Jess and I say like dear glob and we think of like Marjorie the trash heap from fucking Fraggle Rock. So like, you know, I like I I I I say that not to like and I'm very pro-religious freedom. I respect other people's right to practice religion and and all of that. Like, I know I I I I may like make jokes and things, but in a on a very serious note, like I don't want to offend anybody's like religious beliefs because I that is another thing that is really beautiful about our country is the religious freedom. But like women were told that they could do it all and now they have autoimmune disease because what happened is women decided to go get high-powered careers, they went to college, they still want two children, they are still the primary caregiver because I don't I don't care how involved dad is, and I know some wonderful, amazing fathers. Your kid still wants their mom. That's just how it there's a fucking evol it's evolution, like it's hardwired in kids' brains, right? And so they're still the primary caregiver, they're doing all the household stuff, and like this is not man hating either because I don't want to come off as a man hater.

SPEAKER_06 56:15

No, because they're victims of the society that we live in too.

SPEAKER_04 56:18

Yeah, uh oh, a hundred percent in many different ways that I don't have a penis I don't feel equipped to talk about. So, like there's that, you know, but I just think that women were told that they could do it all, and now they have autoimmune disease, and the secular family is falling apart, and we're seeing, and we're all going to pay the price for this when this generation is running the country. Like, what kind what what is going to happen when when that occurs, right? And I know that this is not everyone and everything, but I'm sure there's a lot of people tuning into this right now who are like, yep, I see that all the fucking time, sure do. And these are unpopular opinions, right? And again, I'm very pro-capitalism. I want women to have careers and do the things. But these are also the women who think that they can still train for Iron Man's and live on five hours of sleep and skip breakfast. And it's like, no.

SPEAKER_05 57:07

Right. We can't do this.

SPEAKER_04 57:09

There has to be some there, yes, there has to be some give and take. And I will say this too. Um, I was talking to a girlfriend who has a job interview literally right now, and I hope it's going really, really well for her. Um, but I, you know, she's like, yeah, it's like I I could work from home two days a week, and she doesn't like to work from home all the time. But I was like, my clients that I work with who have a hybrid option for their job have they they do they do better with me. They don't they don't have to worry about the the commute, the this, the that, they get their time back, they can switch laundry. I mean, just these small things that like people don't think about. And so I just I think that I think that that has been that women working has and again, I'm a working woman. I have multiple businesses. Like, I know I sound like such a hypocrite, but when I look at it, I'm just like, man, like this is like we are unwell. And like our kid and and people's kids are suffering from listen, I and I also don't think, just to be clear, I don't think that you know, you putting your kids in daycare makes you a failure, or that that's a problem, or you you're there are so many pros and cons to all different approaches to raising children. So I don't want women out there to be like, she thinks that I'm a failure because I use daycare. No, I think it's great. Your kids are giving germs, they're socializing, like there's so many. I hope your kids are licking someone else's face right now with daycare.

SPEAKER_03 58:25

You know, and they are, and you can work, right? Some women, yes, some women want that, right? They do they want to work and feel that sense of fulfillment and identity and whatever else that they get from the job that they do. They like I thought that's what I wanted.

SPEAKER_06 58:42

I was like, there's no way I could be a stay-at-home mom. I would hate it so much. I want intellectual stimulation, mind you. The fucking job I was going to was to nine and ten-year-olds who were not intellectually stimulating me, but go ahead. And now at twice a week, I'm like, Andrew, please just make me a stay-at-home wife. Like, please, please just make me a stay-at-home wife.

SPEAKER_04 59:03

I think you know that's what I want. Yeah. We're saying this, and I think that there is there is a big trend in that direction. And I, again, as a non-traditional woman, I I don't think it's a bad thing. People are seeking out religion, people are going down to like one working, one working parent and more traditional households. And I don't think it's a bad thing for our society. Like Gen Z is like very um they're they're they're very much seeking out like religion and mentors and and things like that. And I'm like, well, better you know, better than better than the alternatives, you know, like like get something positive in your life. I'm I'm totally here for it. And I think that there's space for all of this. And I just here's another unpopular opinion. I think that way too many people have kids because it's the next step and they don't really want them.

SPEAKER_06 59:50

Yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 59:52

And but they criticize people like me who are like I've thought long and hard for many years. I'm 42, I'm never having children, I've never had a fertility struggle. Um I'm just being very transparent. Like, I've never tried to get pregnant, never wanted to get pregnant. Um, you know, and and so I thought, but I thought long and hard about that. Like it's still something that, you know, I mean, my boyfriend has a vasectomy, like it's not happening, you know. But I'm just like, nope, still don't want that. Like it's just not something I ever wanted. But these women will criticize me for it. And I'm like, there are way too many people out there who just do it because it's the next thing to do with their white picket fence and their golden retriever with their fucking doodle, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:31

Uh that doodle. I just had the same conversation with someone who got who is a hair younger than me, recently got married, and she was just like, Alex, I don't want kids. Like, and I was like, Cool, dude, don't have them. 100% would not recommend. Right. Yeah, this is coming from a woman that has children is and is in the birthing world. Like, I'm like, if you don't want kids, do not you don't do it to yourself. Don't do that. Like, you don't need to do that. And she was like, Thank you so much for saying that. I was like, do not just go along with it because it's the next step to do. You don't like, do you? If you want to be married and no kids, you do that, girl. Like, how about it? And then we're walking, you know, we we work out together. And I'm like, you see all that? This is what you would. It was like kids, kids' swimming classes. I'm like, as we're walking to the sauna to decompress after a spin class. Like, I'm like, you see all that? That would be your Saturday, right? That's what you would and she was like, Yeah, I want nothing to do with that.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:29

Like if that's what people want and that is what they're passionate about, and that's what they want for their life. Like, I love that for you. Like we need we need that. Like, we need people who love being moms, who love being dads. Like it is, it's not me. Yeah, and so I just think that the when we're talking about the iPad parents, like all of my close friends who have children are very active with their children, they're not on their phones at night. They their tablets are like they get like an hour of television time, and they're only certain TV shows that aren't manipulating kids' heads, and like, you know, with the colors and the amount of time that until they cut to the next scene to get kids addicted to it. That that if you don't think that shit's going on, like you ain't awake and yes, wake up. You know, I it's just you know, so I I just I think that there are a lot of the iPad parents are people who didn't really want kids or didn't think hard enough about it. And um, yeah, I mean, if no one ever told you, if you're sitting there and you're like, I don't think I want kids, like guess what? You don't have to. Like this is you don't no one's forcing you, hopefully.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:32

I I think that it's really complex, right? Like, I I think people fall into patterns that are easy, and you know, that goes back to just the human body seeking like we we are lazy by nature, right? To conserve energy and and the iPad is easier, it keeps your child more contained, it keeps them under control, it keeps them out of your hair, right? You can scroll Facebook for 35 seconds longer because you handed your kid uh an iPad or 35 minutes longer.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:00

Yeah. Um it's like that old old saying, you should children should be seen and not heard. Yeah.

unknown 1:03:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:07

Well, yeah, and again, I think I do think that there is a time and a place because I think there is also something damaging to the parent who thinks that they have to be everything and and anything in 24-7 available to their child. I don't think that that is healthy either in any way, shape, or form. Like you're putting too much pressure on yourself.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:26

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:26

And what happens if something goes wrong and then you're blaming, like, just that mental health is like also not good. So, you know, I just I I think that there's there's a time and a place. And I think daycare, I I personally think daycare is great. School is great, getting your kids exposed to other humans is is really incredible.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:45

Um I don't think school is great. I want you to retract that stuff. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:49

Well, I send my kids to public school, so I enjoy it. Yippee.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:55

Except except when they're randomly canceling days of school. That's true.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:59

Like today, I'm like, what is this? No school, who told me I don't read the emails I got and I'm gonna like, it's me. I'm the problem, it's me. Yeah, I mean, I I would be the same way. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:09

I'm like, you guys have off. It used to be great, right? But uh we are systematically there's a word, like it's not a word. I'm like de-intelegizing, right? We're like we're we're systematically stripping common sense and critical thinking from the public because stupid people are easier to manipulate and control. And with as many of us as there are, right, you kind of need the masses to sort of herd all together. Um gosh, Daniel.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:42

It's hurting sheep. It's hurting sheep. It really, I mean, listen, if you listen, if you fall for the rat virus this time around, like I don't like, listen, I don't feel bad for you. Best of luck to you. Also, like stay on the boat. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:02

I just can't, yeah. The the sheep, um, the sheep are being herded 100%. And if you don't see that, I mean it's like the same thing in it like bringing it back like full circle to women's health, right? Like if you if you I said this on a podcast that I I did yesterday, I said, if you aren't mad, you aren't awake about the way that women are treated in healthcare.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:23

And she she actually asked me, like, why do you think it is that women are treated that way? And I'm like, I you know, globally, I don't know, but I went back and talked about like, you know, women weren't weren't required to be studied by the NIH until um, you know, 1993, and like all these things, which is like pharmaceutical trials and yeah, and I'm like, but I don't know. I don't know, but I know that there is a difference because we have studies that show that when women go to doctors with male partners, they're they get better care.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:49

Right. Right. We we hear about from our clients in their OB appointments that you know, like they're not mistreated as regularly when their partner shows up. To their OB appointment, uh it's mind-boggling, right? But I that is that's just the bias that the physicians are trained with. Sh share what that one physician said.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:13

We were at a birth recently. Oh, I shared that on the last one. I know. I think Daniela find it interesting.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:19

The the doctor said rule number five uh is that you don't allow nurses or mothers to impede your management of care because the physician is the only voice for the baby. And I was I was gobsmack, really. I I did not have time to educate persuade him, but is is racing.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:43

Like that person, that physician does not deserve to have a license, and I mean that with my full A-cup chest.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:49

Yeah, you know, and and it's uh that's a really difficult thing to grapple with because I think generally speaking, most mothers would sacrifice their own body for their baby. A thousand percent. They're so vulnerable in that state, right? But but also, you know, and I I've shared this before, and you know, people are probably throwing stones at me uh as I drive by, but like uh when I was in labor with my first daughter, and I love her dearly, and I'm so grateful she's here, and all of those fucking things you're supposed to say, right? All true. Uh, but they wheeled me into the OR after I did not consent to a C-section because I was like, if you leave my uterus alone and this baby dies, I can make more babies. But if you fuck up my uterus and I can't ever get pregnant again, you've robbed me of my fertility because I knew enough to know that c-sections are not just casual surgeries, you know, like, oh, it's no big deal. Yeah, no, it's a huge fucking deal. And the risk of the to this one child here is then compounded significantly to every future pregnancy, not to mention my own long-term health, right? And I'm going to suffer through my 60s, 70s, and 80s because of the surgical delivery that I didn't consent to when, truth be told, my baby was fucking fine in there and they just needed to back off, right? Somebody had a golf appointment or some shit. No, they it that doesn't happen anymore. Uh but it's a liability concern, right? It it's a liability concern. And 100% she that child, I I am sure that there's some like epigenetic health concerns that my children have from their grandfather being in Vietnam and Agent Orange and all the shit. And anyway, but like hyper, hyper sensitive to any kind of toxin. And I got the epidural, and you know, that bitch got a taste of fentanyl, and her heart rate was like, whoa, right? And and so here we are. But I, you know, and I think about that all the time. Like most mothers would choose the life of their baby, but I had and deserved the right to not have my body scarred because some doctor thought that that was the right thing to do. And and that is this mentality that this guy is carrying, is like, oh, it's my job to protect the baby. No, it's my job to decide what is right and okay for my body. Yeah, and and would I have probably chosen a cesarean to save her life? Maybe, but also maybe not. Like, I I was really against it going into that OR.

unknown 1:09:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:29

I don't think a doctor has the right to tell a woman what to do with her body not.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:33

I I I agree 100%. I think you know, I don't I don't think women are given, and patients in general are not given enough informed consent about anything from birth control to vaccines to mammograms to I don't give a fuck what it is, like insert said thing there.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:49

Yeah. Um I just not informed consent, right? The consent is the role of the patient, the information is the responsibility of the physician. We assume, right? Our language is so directive in that we're like just assuming you're going to consent after I give you information. It's called consenting the patient. No, no, no. No, you're informing the patient, and the patient is either going to consent or reject your recommendation. Correct. But God forbid you ask questions.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:24

Yeah. Then you're a difficult, you're labeled as a difficult patient. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:29

You know, in Disney, uh, if you are a difficult customer, they introduce you to other Disney staff members as a very special guest.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:40

Yes. Oh my God.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:42

Right. And that's what they do with your so it's funny.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:46

One of one of the, I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not, but one of the podcasts I listened to, they were talking about Disney. And like one of the things that they do really well is their customer service. Because if you have a complaint, like they want you to be happy. Um and so I just think it's random that I've even heard that because uh the only time I've ever been to Disneyland was when I was like 11 years old in middle school, and that was Disneyland. But um I heard like a couple of dads talking about it on a podcast.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:14

Yes, and yes, they generally do a good job, right? Like I call them the Disney Nazis. If you go, you they wear headsets and they move through the stores in a swarm, and everyone kind of perks up in the store, and you know, it's all about making sure that the illusion is controlled, right? And by the way, everybody, like your whole life is managed by the Disney Nazis or, you know, whoever they are that are literally making sure that all the messaging is controlled and all of the exposure is controlled, right? But you can see it in this microcosm of Disney. Um, but you know, instead of saying, like, this bitch is a pain in the ass, uh, you know, here, deal with her, right? They say, I have this very special guest who has this need that I would like you to uh remedy for them.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:02

I have no desire to go there and find out. No desire.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:06

And you know what's really weird is I I live in southern Utah and I don't know what it is about like the Mormons or the population here, but they love Disney World. They have like season passes to Disneyland. They're adults without children that go. I'm like, that's creepy as fuck.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:21

That's the best way to go, by my hat. Just in case you were wondering, you guys should probably go experience it. The best way to do Disney is without kids. I don't like people.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:30

I mean, like, I love y'all, but like I don't, I don't like no, I don't like people. I don't like crowds, I get sick on fries, I don't want to eat the food. There's nothing there for me. Yes, yes. Dude, people got so I posted this thing about new not like wanting to go to New York City recently because my friend Kristen, who lives in New York, was there for like I don't know, she went to she went for the Harry Potter thing and she like shared something and she's like, oh Danielle Keppix will like share, you know, my opinion about this. And I was like, literally, there's nothing in I've been in New York City once. I have no desire to go again. It smells like pee, there was human feces on the ground. I don't stay up late, I don't like Broadway. I'm disinterested in some like some person right into the DMs and was like, the last thing I would ever do, first of all, would give be giving JK Rowling my money. And New York City is I have so many childhood memories from that. And to whittle it down to this, and I'm like, oh my god, the what about me ism is so disgusting. Like, get the fuck off my page, please. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:27

Like it's okay to scroll on by.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:29

Bye. It's it's this it's this thing called discretion, and not enough people have it. Like, there's a lot of stuff on the internet I don't agree with, and like whatever.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:41

Like, I'm not gonna it comes back to the parenting of the 90s where everybody gets a ribbon and nobody can feel bad. Like, you are supposed to feel bad as a child.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:52

You shame does a lot of good things for people. Make shame great again.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:57

Yeah, like you are supposed to feel bad as a kid because it teaches you how to manage disappointment. It builds this thing called resiliency. Yeah, idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:10

Like maybe you need to try harder.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:12

Yeah, maybe you need to hardly. Or that's not your thing. Yeah, try something different or that, right? Like, not everybody is meant to play baseball. Sorry, honey, but it's true. Not everybody is meant to play baseball.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:23

Not everybody should do math, right? It's math, whatever. The math clearly it's not me. I the math club, me.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:31

Yeah, I whatever it's called. The math is not good for me either. Let me just know. It's not my thing. Yeah, I think there's oh yeah, the the um what do they call it? Participation trophy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I know.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:46

Not I'm like, really? All y'all are getting one of these? Like, dude, you sat in the grass and you picked it.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:51

And the kids, the kids feel bad. Like, we think that giving everybody a trophy makes them feel good, but it actually demoralizes children. Like they they've done research that shows that kids actually feel worse when they receive a trophy that they didn't earn.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:10

My kids do gymnastics, my girls, and uh my one made it to regionals, my oldest. The other middle child girl uh qualified in one event. Gymnastics is four events. She qualified in one event. These meets are like six, seven hundred dollars. I said, You didn't qualify in all of the all of the events, you're not going. Like it's that simple, and that is okay. Maybe next year, kiddo. Yeah. Like, yeah. Oh well, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:40

I mean, we know where we know where your whole paycheck goes anyway. Right? And this is listen, there's a lot of reasons, and yeah, I I want to travel, I want to do things. And people like, oh, but traveling with my kid is so great. Good, great for you. Good for you. Yeah, good. You do this, you travel with your kids. So you know what's funny is I was looking through my Audible account. This has a fucking um there's a purpose behind this. And one of the first books that I ever listened to, the f the first book that I actually ever listened to on audiobook, I was on a plane, I don't remember where I was going, was Yes Please by Amy Polar. Have you guys read that book?

SPEAKER_07 1:16:18

Yeah, it's great.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:20

And this was one of the book first things that I ever listened to that I was like, and she said, good for you, but not for me. And I was like, Yes, ma'am. Yes, yes, ma'am. Yes, and it's good for you, but not for me. And uh the Danielle Ketwick says, I add to that is and that's okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:39

Yes, yes, we don't all have to be the same, yeah, yeah, right? And and you making a choice. Yeah, yeah, well, right, and you making a choice that is different from mine does not mean that I am less than or that my decision is inferior or wrong. Like it's okay, two things can be true at the same time, and that does not make either of us wrong, correct? Right? Like I'm 42, almost 43, and if I could talk my boyfriend into having another baby, I will 100% do it, right? Because I am that level of psycho, right? Wait, how old are you? I'm almost 43.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:17

You're insane.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:19

I know, I know, but I and I recognize that that is also some of my hormones going like this is your last chance, you should probably do it now, right? Like, I know that a lot of it is biology, but I loved motherhood. I loved the new, I loved being pregnant, I loved having my babies, breastfeeding, all of it. I love watching them grow. I got a fucking kitten, and I have spent days outside of mistakes number boxing him.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:49

Getting a cat. No, no shit. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:51

Like, I'm like, I look at Andrew now and I'm like, come on, let's just have a baby. Like the right, the kitten who is so much and preventing me from doing all of the things, and now I've got to find like a babysitter for the cat who is outside and right.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:06

And I'm like, one more have a baby, one more, just one more. Sometimes I egg her on, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:18:12

But you then other times I'm like, not have no children. Please, God. Your decision to not have children is not wrong. It is right for you. And if I am psychotic and have another child at 44, right, like that's not wrong for me. Right. Like you do you, girl. You do you.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:32

I mean, I would agree with the psychosis, but you do you, my friend. Danielle's like, great to meet you, Lacey.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:41

For having the children to keep the social replacement level at 2.5, which we need to keep our society running. Thank you for having an extra one so that I don't have to. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:52

Yes. Amen. So good. Children only.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:59

I'm gonna tell Andrew that he's only at two. Yes. And he needs another half so to make it even another baby. Yeah. To get to that 2.5 replacement level. So good. Anyway, Danielle, thank you so much for coming on.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:16

Thanks for thanks for entertaining my thoughts.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:19

Yeah, I actually I would love to have you on again because I feel like there is so much wisdom and wealth of knowledge that you have. Um, so we'll be knocking on your inbox again.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:29

Yeah, there's a lot going on here. Yeah, it's not just a hat rack. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:33

Where can people find you?

SPEAKER_04 1:19:36

Uh I hang out the most on Instagram, just at Danielle.kepex, K-E-P-I-C-S. Um, you can go to either empoweredmindbody.co or if you're in the state of Utah and you want to work with me for HRT, empoweredmedicine.co. So they are completely separate entities. And yeah, if you are struggling with health issues that people are telling you they don't know why and they don't know what to do with you, um, I fix that. Amazing. Come see me.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:03

Yes, yes. We're gonna send everybody to you. Oh, I know I already do. I'm like, I got a girl out in Utah. Uh she can do all like all these things I can't do, so have at it. Thanks, guys.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:15

I appreciate it. Thank you so much. We appreciate you. Uh, and we'll be in touch. Sounds great. Thanks, guys. Bye. Take care. Bye.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:23

That was so fun. Oh my gosh, she's wild. I love her so much. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:29

You know, and I love that you don't have to agree with all of someone's opinions, absolutely, right? But you can still have such a rich conversation. Um, and I mean, she went every which way. She really did. I want to have her come back and nail her down to a specific topic. Yeah. But I she just knows so much. So much, so much in that head. Oh my God. It's amazing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:53

It's amazing. So she's a good gal to know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:57

Really, really glad to have her kind of in the network of um possible referrals for specifically looking at like what are the challenges of women's health and how can we fix that through a lens of you know, what are we doing to our body? Yeah, absolutely. Right. So cool. So thank you for suggesting that we bring her. I love her. Love her so much. Cool. Yeah. All right. Well, um, if you found this helpful, please share it with somebody. Help us grow. Um, and if you have feedback, it's all our inbox is always open over there at Dola's Unhinged. We love hearing from you. Yeah. Um, anyway, we hope that you're doing well, and we look forward to chatting with you next week. Bye. Thanks for getting Unhinged with us today. We hope this conversation challenged you, validated you, or made you laugh out loud. Birth and parenting aren't meant to be perfect or polished, and neither are we.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:53

If you love this episode, share it with someone who needs real and raw truths. Leave us a review and make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss what we're unraveling next.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:01

We're Alex Shaw and Lacey Morgan reminding you that your voice matters, your experience is valid, and you're allowed to do this your own way.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:08

Until next time, stay unhinged.