Episode 31-Navigating the Loss of a Spouse

Losing a spouse is one of the most profound and disorienting experiences a person can face, and the grief that follows doesn't come with a roadmap or a timeline. In this episode, host Aliza Marie Prokop and producer Mike Segovia answer real listener questions about navigating life after loss, from the "widow's fog" that clouds focus and decision-making, to sleep disturbances, loneliness, and surviving the weight of birthdays and anniversaries. If you are walking through this season yourself or walking alongside someone who is, this conversation offers compassion, practical tools, and the reminder that healing is possible. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_07 0:00

Good evening. We begin tonight with an issue that continues to affect millions long after the original events have passed. Trauma. Mental health experts say trauma from earlier life experiences often resurfaces years later, influencing emotional responses, physical health, and relationships. While the incidents may be in the past, the body and brain can remain in a heightened state of survival.

SPEAKER_06 0:33

I wish I could just forget about everything that happened to me so long ago. But these memories haunt me.

SPEAKER_08 0:43

I know it's over, but it doesn't feel over. I need help, but I'm afraid to open up about my past.

SPEAKER_03 1:26

Welcome to the Amp Cast. I'm your host, Aliza Marie Prokop. If you've ever experienced the loss of a spouse, or if you're walking alongside someone who has, you know that grief can change every part of your life. It affects our emotions, our relationships, our routines, and even the way we think and function. Today we're doing something a little different. We're answering questions from listeners who are navigating the realities of losing a spouse. We'll be discussing topics like sleep, trauma, executive functioning, shock, loneliness, and practical ways to move forward one day at a time. Joining me today is our producer, Mike Segovia. Mike has gathered many of the questions we've received from our listeners, and he'll be helping guide today's conversation. Mike, thank you again for joining us. It's always a pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Absolutely. And thanks, Elisa. You know, it's great to be with you. And these questions come from people who are in very real places of grief and uncertainty. Our hope today isn't to offer quick fixes, but to provide encouragement, practical tools, and hope for anyone walking through one of life's most difficult journeys. So whether you're grieving yourself or supporting someone who is, we hope this conversation reminds you that you are not alone. Let's get to it, Mike. Let's do it. Okay, first question. One of the things many people notice after losing a spouse is a dramatic change in their sleep. Yes. This person asks, why does grief have such a profound impact on sleep? And what are some healthy, practical strategies that can help someone begin to find rest again?

SPEAKER_03 3:14

Well, I have to tell you, when I looked over the notes for the show, I actually thought that that should be the second question because the trauma that happens from it, because when your spouse dies, it's very, very traumatic, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:27

So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:30

You without a doubt, you have cortisol coursing through your veins. That is going to affect your sleep. It always does. You've heard about cortisol, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:40

And and the activity in the prefrontal cortex, which is the front part of your brain, is affected. And it's used for planning, it's used for focus. It's it's now heavily used for emotional processing because now you have to emotionally process the loss. And it's not used for the other things that typically happen, like sleep and like getting yourself into the routines of life like you typically were in. So it's going to be harder for you to do the things that you did before, which is completely normal. Why it has such a profound effect is for that very reason. But healthy practical ways, definitely, you know, all of the things that you would tell a person who's having insomnia regularly, it would be, you know, sleep hygiene, it would be cutting the caffeine, all of that stuff. But it would also be like really looking at doing some progressive muscle relaxation stuff, getting them to a place where they can be quiet with their thoughts, because typically what we see is sleep is no longer a pleasant time for them. Sleep becomes dreaded because that's a quiet time. That's the time where they're alone with their thoughts. So if they're not comfortable with their thoughts, why would they want to sleep? That on top of the fact that they've got cortisol, you know, you're pairing up two really bad things and expecting the person to sleep. It's not going to happen. So you want to work with helping that person be okay with the thoughts. And we can talk about that as we get through the questions. You're okay with the thoughts, and you become more okay with the thoughts, and then working on reducing that cortisol. And there's ways to do that, and we can talk about that. But progressive muscle relaxation, um, you know, breathing exercises, all of that boring stuff we talk about throughout a lot of these episodes, reduce cortisol, help that vagus nerve, help that person to be able to get to a place where they can finally relax and get the brain into that lower, you know, calmer state, not in the fight, flight, freeze, fawn place, unfortunately. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

Good, good advice. Okay, um, next question. So many widows and widowers describe themselves mentally foggy after a loss of a spouse. They struggle to focus, make decisions, stay organized, or accomplish, you know, just everyday tasks. So the question is, how does trauma affect executive functioning? And what can someone do to regain their ability to function and be productive without feeling guilty or overwhelmed?

SPEAKER_03 6:23

Well, it goes back to that widow's fog we talked about. It's common, right? In the beginning, it's something that happens when that prefrontal cortex is being hijacked. Okay, so it's been hijacked and it's used now to heavily prioritize emotional processing. Remember, we don't know how this spouse died. So we have three things that we're looking at. We're looking at either ETSD, major depressive disorder, or prolonged grief disorder, possibly if it lasts over a year. Okay, so there's a lot of moving parts here. And if that person is not getting through that fog and we're looking at approaching a year, that's when you want to do some sort of intervention and possibly say we might want to talk to a therapist at that point, because it could be needs to be 12 months. Okay. Where you see that the person isn't functioning, they have intense preoccupation with the death. You need to have like three out of eight symptoms, and in the DSM, it's it's very specific to be diagnosed with that. But it's more than just sadness, it's it's a very specific thing. And so that can go into something more serious. So you, you know, you expect this fog, but you want to be careful that that fog doesn't go into something that lasts about a year. And some of it can, and you really want to be careful of that. So we can get into that later, but it needs to be differentially diagnosed by a professional at that point.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

That's good. All right. Next question. Shock doesn't look the same for everyone. Some people cry constantly, while others seem emotionally numb, um, detached, or even unusually busy and productive. So the question is what are some of the different ways shock can manifest after the loss of a spouse? And how can individuals and their loved ones recognize these responses and support the healing process?

SPEAKER_03 8:28

Well, there is no one way to grieve. I'm sure everybody's heard that, right? If we expect to see one specific cookie-cutter way, and if you you you can look up on the internet what not to say to someone who's grieving. I think it's really important if you if you want to know how to help someone as we get longer into these questions, look that up, what not to say. Because it's it's always we expect people to fit this mold. We expect them to to go through, well, they're at the eight-month mark. They should be doing this. That's just not the case. Everybody reacts differently. Or you're at a funeral and you see, you know, this person isn't crying, or this person appears to be excessively busy. They went right back to work. I wonder why. You know, people handle it in different ways. That's based upon their family of origin, that could be based upon their culture, that could be based upon how they handle or how they viewed stress being handled or deaths being handled in their family. So there's a lot of moving parts. I just don't think there's one way to view it. And I think that if we attempt to say, well, that person's working too hard, they're doing too much. Again, if you start seeing some symptoms that are looking like prolonged grief disorder, that's when it becomes problematic. You're looking at a year, you're looking at the person who won't leave their room, they get delusional. I mean, we're talking, they think the person's still alive. They think that, you know, they're able to communicate with the person, it's debilitating. You can tell the difference between normal grief and something like that. That's a line that's crossed. And that's when you know the person needs ex extra help at that point. Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

So you know, and I was thinking it seems like it would be stressful for the person, you know, who's going through the grief to feel like I should be crying more, or I should get more busy, or I should go out to lunch with my friends and be normal.

SPEAKER_04 10:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

Almost like I should grieve a certain way because that's maybe what society tells me to. It's just seems like that could be that extra layer and feeling like they have to do something like that, Elisa. You know?

SPEAKER_03 10:44

Yeah. Like who said? Said who? That's my question. Says who? Who says you have to do that? Who told you that?

SPEAKER_04 10:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:51

Who told you you have to go to lunch? I love that when you know, my godmother, God rest her soul, was a wonderful woman. She, my godfather died when I was about, I believe about eight.

SPEAKER_04 11:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 11:05

And then she remarried several years later, and then that man died.

SPEAKER_04 11:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 11:09

And I can remember people coming over to her house and saying, Okay, well, you're gonna go to lunch. We're taking you to lunch, and you have to go to lunch, and we're gonna have lunches set up for you. She didn't want to. And she didn't have to. And at the time I remember her saying, But Aliza, I just don't want to. I just want to stay home. And they viewed that as something was wrong with her. And there wasn't. Now that I'm a therapist, I look back and it was very wrong that people made her feel badly about that. She wanted to stay home. She occasionally wanted me to come over and she wanted to talk about my godfather. You know, we have to see what people want. And as a therapist, one of the first things we're taught is ask the person what they need. You ask them, what do you need? And each person will tell you something different. Somebody might say, I just would like to talk about him. Okay. Somebody might say, I'd like to create something in his memory. Okay, what do you what would you like to create? I don't know, I'd like to do an event in his honor. He was into golf. Let's let's do a benefit golf outing. All right, let's work on that. It depends on the person, but to mold everybody into what you think they should be, how you think they should heal? That's just it's abusive, really, in a way, I think. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Absolutely. Next question. Everyone says grief has no timeline, but how can someone recognize the difference between healthy grieving and a point where additional support from a counselor or mental health professional may be needed?

SPEAKER_03 12:46

Okay, so that goes back to that triad of disorders and things that we looked at before. You've got progressive grief disorder, right? So that's where you need three of eight symptoms in order to be diagnosed with that. That's a new thing that's in the DSM 5 TR that's out now. And again, I want to make it very clear that that's something that needs diagnosed by a mental health professional. That's not something I'm diagnosing while I'm sitting here. I am a professional, but I'm not doing that on this podcast. You need to see someone professionally to have that done. But it's debilitating. It's something that, again, you won't leave your house ever. You are extremely debilitated. You are dealing with this for over 12 months. In a child, it's six months or more. And it's something that has a preoccupation. It's where you avoid reminders of that person. You have a deep pining for that person. You have a low mood tied to the loss, a yearning or longing, a bittersweetness. Okay, all of that would be a prolonged grief. You then have major depression, and it's just an overall blanket. It's just everything is depressing, it's pervasive, it's a fixed disorder. You have a low sense of self-worth and you can't experience pleasure. So there's no pleasure in anything in your life. With prolonged grief, you have some pockets of pleasure that you are able to experience. With major depression, you don't. And then there's PTSD, which is based in a threat management perspective. All three of those things need to be kind of differentiated by a professional. All three of those things can occur concurrently. And if they do, that's where that person would need to be seen by someone to help unpack it, to help them, you know, decipher it and come up with a plan. You need a plan. But guilting them or making them feel badly about it or feel inferior, wrong. Very, very wrong. You want to support them, love them again, lead with love, be there for them. Ask them what they need. Ask them how you can be there for them. And a lot of times they want to talk about the person that's passed.

SPEAKER_01 15:03

That's good. Yeah. If you're just joining us, you're listening to the Amcast with Elisa Prokop. And I'm our guest host, I'm the producer of the show, Mike Segovia. And we're talking about navigating the loss of a spouse. And uh so we're taking some of your questions. And so this is a big one, Elisa. Uh, let's talk about loneliness after the loss. Many people say the hardest part isn't just losing their spouse, it's the loneliness that follows. Man, yeah. Yeah, how can someone begin to rebuild a meaningful life and healthy relationships without feeling like they're leaving their spouse behind? Man, yeah, that's tough.

SPEAKER_03 15:46

That is. Well, I think the biggest thing is understanding that you can honor your spouse while still building new relationships. It can be both and. I don't think that either or is something that applies here. I think if if we can begin to wrap our brains around both and, it's sort of like a blended family. You can love both children. You can love all children. You don't just love these children, you love all of your children. It's both and. And if you're going to look for another relationship, of course you want to be careful in that regard because a lot of times, you know, people do it too quickly, and then it's a mistake. And then a lot of times people are vulnerable. And we've had, I've had clients where that's a problem. You know, they're vulnerable, they come in, people swoop in, and it's not a good situation for that person where they're taken advantage of, et cetera, et cetera. So I always think it's good to get some good therapy when this happens, just to get through the the first year, give yourself a year to grief and to do it in a healthy way and be grieving in a way that is the way you want it to be, the way you design it to be, and not the way you're told it is to be. Um, the loneliness.

SPEAKER_04 17:16

Oh man.

SPEAKER_03 17:16

Keep yourself around people you want to be around. That doesn't have to be a romantic relationship. You know, maybe it's your church, maybe it's your friends, maybe it's going to your high school reunion, maybe it's going to at the center of Diana. They have, you know, concerts every Sunday night now. The gazebo. Maybe it's just doing something different, reinventing yourself a little bit. You know, it's something different.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Yeah. I I'm I just couldn't even imagine. Um I went to a conference some months back, and uh my wife wasn't there. And um, you know, I wrapped up the recording and I had a night to myself, and people did some other things on my team. And so I just kind of went out by myself to dinner and it kind of was walking around. I said, Man, I I miss my wife. She would love walking around with me right now and going to get some you know Mexican food. And I could not imagine um, listeners, what you're dealing with if you are dealing with the loss, you know, of a spouse. And I'm so sorry what you're going through, and you are not alone. And we are praying for you. We are I may not know you, but we are praying for you.

SPEAKER_03 18:30

We are praying for you that it hurts.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

It hurts.

SPEAKER_03 18:34

And we're not just patting on the head and saying We're not. You'll you'll get over it. I I really understand, you know, grief very I do. I mean, we've all had loss. I've not had a spouse die, but you know, we've had a watch my mother die and my father and a brother, and you know, I yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Very near and dear to my heart. We would do an episode in the future about saying goodbye and even how to deal with that. Um, and we're not talking about spouses, we're talking about you know, friends, pets saying goodbye, empty nest, saying goodbye to your cousin who stayed with you for three months and now they're going back home.

SPEAKER_03 19:13

Uh, you know, we will have an episode on that because that's I felt bad the time that I met you and your wife in Cleveland and your son left to go back to college. Mike and I were sitting there going, oh, like we felt like you guys should just we were just gonna leave. I felt so bad. I was like, hi. Yeah, it's hard.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Yeah, we know it's hard. Um, okay, continue along with the questions. Birthdays, anniversaries, holidays, and family milestones can reopen deep wounds. What are some healthy ways to prepare for those difficult days? And is it okay if someone chooses to celebrate them differently than they did before?

SPEAKER_03 19:51

Yes. Well, the key word is prepare. I have my clients prepare. Like I had one client in particular prepare months in advance. We knew that a date was coming up and we had a game plan and we prepared the entire day. Like we set a almost like it was summer camp. Okay, 8 a.m., this is what you're gonna do. Let's what do you want to do? And we we figured out the itinerary for the entire day. And came back and told me that it was one of the best decisions that we made because we had specific people involved, we had specific people not involved, we had specific events involved, things that they wanted to do, and they kept out things they didn't want to do. So planning is key. Do not let it just fly by the seat of your pants because that's where you get into trouble. I'll be fine. And you find out, oh, wait a minute, ugh, it's hitting me between the eyes. I don't like that. Planning is always a good idea. And, you know, technically they say it takes two years to get through two cycles to be able to deal with it and to be able to handle it. The first year is just dealing with the the shock of the anniversaries of all of the different things, and then the second year to plan what you really want to do. So it takes about two years. One lady had a hard time with with Christmas. So we had a tree. The husband really liked golf. So the entire we we had a whole tree just dedicated to golf, and everything was decorated in golf. There were just different ideas we brainstormed together to honor that person. So you get busy doing something, honoring that person. So you come up with a craft or an idea or a way to honor them, and it gets them active in doing something, making something, doing something, creating something, building something in their honor. That seems to help sometimes too.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

That's good, good advice. Okay, this has been great, and uh, we have time for one more question here, and um This we this uh has to do with supporting someone who has lost a spouse. Friends and family often want to help but don't know what to say or do. So someone asks, what are some of the most meaningful ways to support someone who has lost a spouse? And what are some common mistakes that, while well intentioned, can actually make the grieving process more difficult?

SPEAKER_03 22:24

What I had said earlier. Come on, we're going out. Get your shoes on, we're going. You're coming with I need to get out of the house. Maybe they don't. Maybe they don't. Maybe they don't. Uh again, if it's a year and they've not left the house, okay, we'll talk about that.

SPEAKER_04 22:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 22:42

But if they don't want to go to the purse bingo with 50 other ladies, they shouldn't have to go to the purse bingo with 50 other ladies.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:52

Her husband just died. She doesn't want to do that. I think that being judgy, too many people are judgy about other people's pain. I've seen it.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

I know.

SPEAKER_03 23:03

I don't like that.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:04

You see it too?

SPEAKER_00 23:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:06

I've seen it from professionals, from people with initials behind them. Very judgy. Judgy, judgy, judgy. Stop it. Just stop it. Don't do that. That's not nice. Be nice. Be nice to these people. They're hurting. Be nice. I think that they need you to just sit with them and and just say, what can I do? And if you don't know what to say, just sit there. Yeah. You know, I went to California two years ago.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

Costa Mesa. Oh, yes. I know Costa Mesa. Well, yes.

SPEAKER_03 23:38

Costa Mesa. And I I studied for a week with Dr. John Townsend, Henry Cloud.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

Yes. I love them.

SPEAKER_03 23:45

And I think I alluded to it in one of the other podcasts. I don't remember. The mind is going, but I talked about when someone's down in the well, what do you do? Get out of that well. It's sunny up here. Get up here. You need to be up here. No. One of the most profound things from that week, I remember Henry Cloud said this, Dr. Cloud said this. You climb down in the in the well with them and you sit there. And I I think I might have raised my hand and said, Do you say anything? No. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 24:20

That's it. That's what he told me. And I was at first, I'm like, okay. And then I thought about it, and I was like, Yeah, I can remember some times when I just felt the worst. And I just wanted someone to be there. You don't have to have words. You don't have to have a flowy thing to say. That's like this podcast. You and I talk about a little bit what we're going to talk about.

SPEAKER_04 24:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:49

I'm not the super polished, I have everything scripted out. This you're getting what you get in this podcast, right? But it's from the heart.

unknown 24:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:59

And it's real. And that's what people I think will feel when you get in the well with them. You sit with them and you let them know, I'm here because I care. What can I do? What do you need? We'll just sit here with you for a bit. And that's kind of what Jesus did.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

Elisa, as we close today, there's someone listening. Um, they recently lost their spouse, and they're listening in the car, and you know, they pulled up into their driveway and they're saying, I just don't want to get out of the car. Yeah. I don't want to go into my house, and I just don't want to deal with life. What would you say to that person listening right now?

SPEAKER_03 25:44

I would say to them, love yourself the way your spouse loved you. Love yourself enough to get out of the car and to go in there because your spouse loved you. And right now they would not want you to love yourself at a low level. Love yourself enough to go in the house and to just be. You don't have to do anything, you don't have to live up to anybody's standards. If it's just going in and laying down on the couch and watching TV, that's okay. If you have to order takeout for a few weeks, that's okay. If you have to have a cleaning lady, that's okay. Call a friend if you need help, that's okay. There's no rules here, it's okay. But it's understandable. There's no litness test, there's no bar you have to meet. Just be gentle with yourself. Try your best to be around people that care about you if you can. Try your best to pray. God does care. There are people that care about you. Find out who they are and try your best to be around them, whether it's maybe not in person, maybe it's a call, maybe it's a text. If all you have the strength is to text someone, do that. Say, I'm hurting. Text someone.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

That's so good. Aliza, thank you for sharing your insight and heart today. These questions reflect what so many people are carrying, often quietly. I hope our listeners walk away knowing that grief is not something they have to get over, but it's something they can learn to navigate with support, grace, and hope.

SPEAKER_03 27:36

Thanks, Mike. And thank you to everyone who submitted their questions. If today's conversation resonated with you, we encourage you to share this episode, please, with someone who may need it. And remember, reaching out for help is a sign of strength, not weakness. If you'd like to submit a question for future QA episodes, visit our website or connect with us on social media. We'd love to hear from you. Until next time, take care of yourself, take care of one another, and remember, you don't have to walk this journey alone. Thanks for listening to the AmpCast.

SPEAKER_02 28:15

You've been listening to the Ampcast with Elisa Marie ProCop. To find out more, go to Ampcounseling.com. You can discover more information about all our services that we offer. Be sure to follow our social media platforms using the icons at the bottom of the page. Don't forget to check out our show notes for today's episode, where we will have links and contact info for today's guests. Well, that's all the time we have for this episode. Thanks for joining us, and we will see you next time for another edition of the Amp Cast with Eliza Marie Pro Cup Dealing and Healing from Trauma.