Episode 33-From Panic to Peace: The Hallway Miracle That Changed Cara Shine’s Life

What does it take to reach someone who has every reason to want nothing to do with Jesus? In this episode, Aliza talks with Cara Shine, who never expected Jesus to be the Messiah she was looking for, until a traumatic encounter during the 2002 D.C. Beltway Sniper Crisis brought her face to face with the authentic, lived faith of a Christian friend that changed everything. Her story is a powerful reminder that it is rarely our words, but our actions in the midst of life’s hardest moments that open the hearts of those around us.

Resources: 

●     The Hallway Miracle: The Prayer that Opened a Jewish Heart to Jesus by Cara Shine

●     AMP Counseling

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Hashtags: #TheAMPcast #AlizaProkop #CaraShine #TheHallwayMiracle #Faith #Healing #Trauma #Therapy #Counseling #Podcast #Podcasting #PodcastCommunity #PFCAudioVideo 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Hello and welcome to the AMPA. Healing and Healing from Trauma. Here now is your host, Elisa Marie Brokoff.

SPEAKER_03 0:24

Today I'm joined by Kara Schein, a retired award-winning elementary school teacher, lay pastor, and ministry coordinator whose life and message are deeply rooted in encouragement, anxiety support, and bridging the Old and New Testament through her Jewish background. Kara has an incredible testimony of how God met her in the middle of fear and trauma during the 2002 Beltway Sniper Crisis, which led her into a life-changing encounter with Jesus as the Messiah she never expected to know. In this conversation, we're talking about when trauma shapes how we see God, how pain and fear can distort our view of him, but also how he can meet us right in those places and gently reshape everything we thought we knew. Let's dive into today's conversation with Kara Schein on this episode of the Amp Cast.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Welcome to the show, Kara. It's great to have you with me. Oh, thank you so much, Elisa. I'm really looking forward to our conversation.

SPEAKER_03 1:22

I am too. I read over everything, and there is so much here. You have such a story. And I'd really love to start with your early years because it appears that there's just so so much. So we'll go at the beginning. And I would like to start, if that's okay, with like some of the things that you can tell us from the earlier bullying that you went through. You had so much going on early on. Start the early days. Tell us about your story.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

Okay, sure. So I was born and raised Jewish, and my dad was military, which meant we ended up in a small southwestern uh city outside of Dayton, Ohio, at an Air Force base. And very early on, my parents had to make a decision when we moved were we going to live close to the Air Force base and work or near a synagogue, which would mean having Jewish friends and neighbors who would understand our heritage. They had to make a really tough decision and chose to live near the base, which meant that we really were the only Jewish family in an otherwise very Christian community. And although I am certain that there were many, many beautiful Christians in our midst, the ones that were the loudest for my brother and I were also the cruelest. So growing up on the school bus where there were no adults really to protect us, I heard some pretty horrific things about Jesus from Christians, I guess, young kids. I heard things like, uh, gosh, I hope you and your brother have lots of, you know, cool clothes because you're all gonna burn in hell. I had a boy walk past me on the bus when I was young and grab a handful of my hair and then announce to the bus, check her for horns, we're all safe. And you can imagine what that might do to a young child. Traumatic. It was rough. And then I had I had another blonde-headed girl who liked to routinely say to me, Your parents must be ignorant since you don't believe in Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

And she would hiss the word Jesus Christ at my brother and I, which was really hard for me to reconcile because when we go to synagogue and sit at the feet of these rabbis that I loved, I never heard anything negative about who Jesus was from my rabbis or in synagogue. In fact, I remember one day a rabbi saying to me, when we asked, Who is Jesus? The rabbi said, Jesus was an amazing, wonderful prophet who you should respect. And he gave us the golden rule: do unto others as you would have them do unto you. So I couldn't reconcile the Jesus that was being represented by these kids on the bus and the Jesus that my rabbi was telling me about. So very early on, I was I became very wary of Christians, and I decided, okay, well, if that's how Christians act, I don't want anything to do with Jesus. And worse yet, Elisa, I assume that Jesus wanted nothing to do with me.

SPEAKER_03 4:17

With you.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

Fast forward 30 years, and all of that changed during the DC Beltway sniper attacks when I ended up meeting the real Jesus, the Jesus who washes feet.

SPEAKER_03 4:29

So we're gonna get there, but I want to pause for one second and talk to you about something that struck me when you just brought up, you know, if that's what Christians are. I really, I really want to talk about that for a minute because I I spoke with someone who was very close to me last week. And this person listened to one of the podcasts, and they're not typically someone that would uh aspire to Christianity. But they said something to me that struck me, and I think this might resonate with you, and I want to get your opinion on it. And they said they said I really appreciated the uh one that you did with June Hunt because it spoke to authentic Christianity. And June Hunt has hope for the heart, and she's in Texas, and she does all sorts of well you can see online all sorts of benevolent things. But she speaks about being an authentic Christian. So is that kind of what you were referring to? Not just telling a person about Jesus. You can tell a person all day about Jesus. We can beat people over the head with a Bible, it's not going to mean much to a lot of people. Tell me what you think about that.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

No, to be honest, the reason I wrote this book was exactly that. It's trying to encourage those of us who love and follow Jesus to understand the importance of our walk, the way that we move in the world, the moment we step outside of our homes and into our jobs or in the grocery line or our online presence. The people who don't know who Jesus is, their chances are they're not going to walk face first into the Old Testament and read the words of Matthew. But they're going to meet us. Right. And we might be the first representation of who Jesus is. And if we don't take that as a sacred calling, a commissioning, we are missing the beauty of discipleship, which is a gift. It's a gift for us to be able to share Jesus well. And every morning I wake up and I pray, God, please don't let me say or do anything that will keep anybody outside of your love. Because we do it in small little microcasms and micro-tears of each other's hearts without even realizing it. And for me, that happened on that school bus and growing up in that community. And it just took a few people. Like I said, there were beautiful, wonderful people in my midst. But it just took a handful of these kids sharing with me what they thought was Christianity to change the way I perceived who he was. Being an authentic Christian means taking it seriously in a way that we can't share what we don't love. We can't share what we don't love. So if we're not actively in scripture and worshiping and surrendering, right, our hands have to be clasped in prayer first before we can surrender openly to anybody else. But what a beautiful responsibility and opportunity to be able to reflect Jesus to people who don't who don't know him yet. And that that is authentic for many of us. And I'm so grateful that that happened for me. And it rewrote kind of what happened to me growing up in a beautiful way that has had this holy ripple effect that puts me on this screen with you today. Had it not been for those authentic Christians who reintroduced to me, I wouldn't be sitting here on your Christian podcast, right? I'm I'm Jewish. But these these Christians who showed me Jesus allowed this beautiful thing to happen. And I'm sure we'll talk about this a little bit more. It wasn't, yeah, it wasn't purposeful, I don't think, on their part. They were just living authentically.

SPEAKER_03 8:17

And that's what I guess I was getting at is it's more than just telling a person, it's showing a person. It's seeing a person in action, how they react to situations. So let's get to the situation. You had 2002 come now. I know there's a big gap between the school bus and 2002. So is what would you like to say about that gap? Is there anything in there that is important to note?

SPEAKER_02 8:44

Um, I would just say that I was very deeply in love with my Judaism, as I still am today. Uh I I ended up uh becoming a Sunday school teacher, and I actually pursued maybe becoming a rabbi at one point in college, um, and uh was very, very active in youth group, uh Benabrath youth organizations, which is sort of like young life, only if you're Jewish, uh, and held an office. I was deeply immersed in that and really felt confident about where I was headed in my Judaism. And then I ended up marrying a man, Jeff Schein, uh, who wasn't Jewish, which was not on my not on my docket, but I also for somebody like that. Talk about a plan. But this Jeff, um, we were married by a rabbi, and he made the ultimate sacrifice and said, That's okay if your Judaism is that important to you, now it's that important to me. So we were married by a rabbi and we had fully intended on raising any future children Jewish. We had a daughter who was two years old, Emma Kate, in 2002, and then God. And then God stepped in and said, Watch this.

SPEAKER_03 9:50

And that's where we we see ourselves here: the beltway sniper attacks. Take us back to that era for you and what that looked like, and what you felt and what happened. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 10:02

Sure. So so my husband at that point and I had moved to Virginia right outside of DC, and it had only been a year since 9-11. We live about 20 minutes from the Pentagon, and I'm I was an elementary school teacher, and we were all really traumatized, as the whole nation was by 9-11. So we were already on edge. Um, and God plopped me into this elementary school that just happened to be full of authentic, beautiful Christians. Uh, Christians who welcomed me. I ended up being, again, the only Jew in a Christian community, but this was different this time. These Christians loved God, loved Jesus, and lived authentically in a way that didn't scare me. It rewrote on my heart who Christians were. And they did little tiny things uh throughout the years. My friend who was across the hallway from me had a little desk calendar on her desk that had daily Bible verses on it. Uh, I knew the principal of the school was a strong Christian. Just by the way that he talked, he would say things like, Oh, I'm gonna pray about that, when there was a big decision to be made. And for the first time in my life, because of the way that they moved in this world and the way they taught, and the way that there was a camaraderie and a family, and the way they welcomed me when I showed up uh at the teacher's lunch table with peanut butter and jelly on matzah during Passover, there was no condemnation. There was interest, true interest, and they loved on me. So when the Beltway sniper attacks began, I watched the way that they handled everything in their lives, and it was it was different and it was authentic. And it was something that interested me.

SPEAKER_03 11:46

Yeah, what did you see? What what struck you as true in that?

SPEAKER_02 11:51

They they were praying. They were praying. Okay, they were praying. I I came to understand that the principal actually started doing prayer walks around the school uh to kind of claim the claim the space. Now, again, this is 2002, and he didn't announce it to anybody. I I just I knew he was doing these things quietly. I also heard that at night when we would go home, he would walk the hallways and lay his hands on the doors of the classrooms and pray for the teachers. Now, again, in my mind, it's slowly rewriting in my head who Christians are. All of a sudden, they're open-handed and they're not judgmental. And they're saying things like, while the rest of us are scared and terrified of these beltway snipers, they're praying and they're saying things like, God is in control, I trust Jesus, everything's gonna be okay. Meanwhile, I started spiraling with panic attacks because for three weeks these beltway snipers hid from the trunk of their car and drove around the DC, Maryland, Virginia area, shooting at anything that moved.

SPEAKER_03 13:03

Wasn't it at gas stations?

SPEAKER_02 13:05

It was yeah, it was everywhere, right?

unknown 13:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:08

It was at there was no rhyme or reason to what they were doing, which is even more terrifying because there were no patterns to it. By the end of their three-week reign, they had killed 10 people, wounded three, including uh a middle school student, and terrified millions of us. And the authorities said, Don't go outside. So recess was canceled, outdoor activities were canceled. We hid in our houses as much as we could for three weeks. They said, if you have to go outside, duck and weave and stay low to the ground. To this day, Lisa, if you say, Do you remember where you were during this DC sniper attacks to anybody in our area? They immediately get that, oh my gosh, that was it was kind of like our JFK, where were you when JFK got shot? That's what was happening in our area for three weeks. And and I didn't know what to do with that fear that I started feeling. My daughter was two years old, and and all of this is in the book, but something significant happens to her during this time period, along with the terror of the snipers. There were all these things that that came together that should have broken me. And instead, as we know God does, God used the terror and all of these things that happened to me and my family during this time to reintroduce to me who Jesus was. There's that verse in Genesis 50-20 when Joseph reconciles with the brothers who have thrown him into slavery, and he says to them, you know, you intended to harm me, but God intended this for good. And that's how I look at what happened during the DC sniper attacks. I just can't imagine that these two snipers that were eventually caught could ever have imagined that their bullets would cause the heart of a Jewish woman like myself to burst wide open and change the direction of my life and my family's life and a Muslim neighbor, and I just it this holy ripple effect of what happened because of a prayer that was said over me in a hallway at this elementary school.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 15:07

But that's what happened. That's what happened because of the authenticity of these Christians.

SPEAKER_03 15:11

So you remember a specific moment when this principal prayed over you? There was an actual moment that you can point to at this time. Is that what you remember?

SPEAKER_02 15:23

Yeah. Well, can you tell us about that? Yep. So sure, sure, happy to. So the day that the student, the middle school student, was targeted and shot was the same day that I showed up this elementary school early. And my friend, who had the little desk calendar on her desk, who had become one of my dearest friends, showed up also early that morning. And we get the news that this student has been shot. I'm frozen in my car. I can't get out because just getting from my car to the elementary school now is life or death. My friend Sharon, who is a strong Christian, pulls up next to me in the car and she's singing. She's singing in her car. I can see her next to me singing. She and I are still very, very close, and we don't know what she was listening to. We don't remember that part, but she was singing praise music. She opened up her car door, walked straight in, like there was nothing going on. There was no ducking and weaving. She just walked directly into the elementary school. I can't move. She holds the door open for me, and she can see that I'm still in my car. And she just held the door of the elementary school open and beckoned me. Come on, come on, let's go. Little did she know that for weeks I had been sneaking into her classroom and reading the little desk calendar over her shoulder that was full of New Testament verses that I had never seen before. So, you know, I read um John 14 about, you know, peace, I live with you, do not be afraid. I didn't know who John was. I'd never, I'd never read the New Testament before. And I started memorizing some of these new verses, God started opening up my heart. I would read these verses and I could feel something in my heart longing to know more about this. So I started repeating this verse in my head, you know, fear not, fear not, you know, peace I lead with you. And it gave me the courage to run into the elementary school. And when I got there, I looked at her and I just said, Aren't you afraid? Aren't you afraid? And she said, Yeah, I am afraid. But I also know that Jesus is my Lord and Savior, and that whatever happens in this world, it will be okay. And I can't let fear keep me from living the life he's designed for me. And I just said, I I don't understand what that means. And this is this is the bold part. Because we had been friends for years, and I had seen how she had lived her life, she earned the right to ask me the next very important question. And she said, Carol, would you like to pray with me? And because she had been living authentically and we had been friends, and God had brought me to this moment, I said yes. And in that empty elementary school hallway with nobody around, she opened up her hands and I put my hands in hers, and we bowed our heads, and I bowed mine, because I guess that's what you were supposed to do. And then Elisa, she just started talking to God like he was her best friend.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

And I felt it from the top of my head to the bottom of my toes, and everything else disappeared in that hallway. And when we opened up our eyes, I was crying, she was crying, and I just looked at her and I said, Sharon, what was that? And she said, Oh, honey, that was Jesus. And it just set off this holy ripple effect of God pursuing me. I you cannot make this stuff up, which is why I wrote the book. The number of things that happened after that prayer, including a Muslim neighbor, including some tragedy, including beautiful restoration, and the just it on and on and on and on. And I've held on to this story for 25 years. And I just felt like at a time right now, when we're in the middle of so much anti-Semitism and misunderstanding and division, that if this book could encourage any Christian to rethink their relationship with their neighbors and their friends and the influence they have in their work or wherever they walk, that that was what that would be enough. That was my Dianu, which is a Hebrew word, which means it would have been enough. And I I hope that that's what it has done, and it's landed me here with you being able to share the story.

SPEAKER_03 19:36

Yeah, I mean, the fact that you trusted this person enough to say, okay, you've earned the right. You've earned the right to talk to me about this. Because that that goes back to what I said earlier: that authenticity. If you had seen her treat people badly, if you had heard her gossip, if you had seen how she acted outside of the school, or how she treated her children, or maybe her husband if she had one, uh, her behaviors, I think you would have maybe had a pause and not wanted, right?

SPEAKER_02 20:10

Am I absolutely yeah that there's that presence over persuasion?

SPEAKER_03 20:15

Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:15

And the way and she's not perfect, and none of us are perfect. We aren't, right. I'm not. That's why same, same, same, same. But because she was so beautifully open-handed and her her love for the Lord was so evident to me, there was a thirst for hunger, there was a surrender and a hope that she had. It was really the hope that um was contagious to me. And had it not been for the way that she was just living her life, hopefully, I'm not sure that I would have said yes to that prayer.

SPEAKER_03 20:48

Because you saw her in the trenches, so to speak. You saw her in a crisis situation and you saw how she reacted. When when you squeeze something, what comes out is what's inside. So you you saw her under pressure. Yeah. So if something is inside as yucky and negative, you would see that come out, and you saw good come out. That's how you know.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

She and the principal and many of the other Christians at this school, and I don't think there was any coincidence that God dropped me into the school. There were so many of them that, as you beautifully said, in the time of trial, they knew they were under fire, like Daniel, um, but they also knew there was somebody else with them, and they pointed to that someone else in the fire uh in a way that wasn't judgmental or scary. It was just beautifully authentic. They were sharing something that they loved in a way that was beautiful and contagious.

SPEAKER_03 21:47

Exactly. And that's kind of what my point was at the beginning of this. We have a lot of people, you know, I've been at churches where it's about making disciples. It's important to make disciples. I I get that. That's important, very important. Important. But if you're living your life kind of like someone you wouldn't want to have lunch with, why would someone listen to you? Yeah. You know what I mean? Like if you don't want to invite them over for pizza, the chances are you're not going to listen to them about being a disciple. It just doesn't make sense. So you saw somebody in the trencher in a crisis situation, and you uh did a wonderful thing by opening yourself up and trusting. So I'm curious when you went home and talked to Jeff, what happened next? How did that go?

SPEAKER_02 22:33

Uh, I actually did not tell him. Okay. I did not tell him. I did not tell him right away because it's hard to understand the enormity of what it meant to me. And I'm not speaking for for all Jews because we all have our our own um story to tell. I can only speak to what happened to me. For me, there was so much fear in telling my husband what had happened, or my parents, or any of my friends, because um I was so worried about hurting their hearts.

unknown 23:05

Right.

SPEAKER_02 23:06

And because, unfortunately, of the damage that has been done between Christians and Jews, there is this feeling of distrust and that there's no bridge that can be can be crossed. But God, God allowed some beautiful, beautiful things to happen that eventually opened up that conversation and led to complete restoration, uh, including with my family, with my parents. And I keep saying that I hope that this story builds bridges and not walls.

SPEAKER_03 23:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

My Judaism is inherently important to me. It's who I am. My love of Yeshua and Jesus for me completes the bridge. But if we as Christians or Jews or Muslims, whoever it is, if we're standing, I mean, think about how a bridge connects two things. If we're standing on either side of a chasm, and that chasm is conflict or hurt or resentment or misunderstanding, somebody has to start walking or building for us to reach one another. And that's a beautiful opportunity that we, when we meet somebody who doesn't know who Jesus is, if we haven't already been preparing our hearts through prayer and scripture, so that we're ready in that moment, not to convert, but I think the most important thing we can do if we if we want those relationships is to listen. Just listen to each other. Yes. There chances are there's there's somebody in your list, and I'm gonna speak to your listeners here. If there's somebody in your life that you have been praying for, that you you just want them to fall in love with Jesus, the most important thing you can do is listen. There's so much hurt and healing that can that can be had by us just listening. When we come at them with an agenda, the walls immediately go up. So, first of all, your prayers are heard. But the first thing that you can do for that person in your life that you are hoping for, the first thing is open up your prayer life. Maybe there is somebody you're thinking about right now, maybe it's a family member or a neighbor or a friend. Pray for them. God, give me the words, give me the courage, give me the opportunity, and let your words speak through me. But open up your prayer life also to include people you've never met. Because there might be somebody you haven't even thought about.

SPEAKER_01 25:34

Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:35

So preparing your heart ahead of time is so important. And then listen without agenda. There's somebody in your life who probably really needs you to just listen, and that's how we heal any of the scars. Listen without without any agenda, right? Um, and pray, pray that they they can hear those things as well. Um, and then surrender. Surrender the outcome. Not every mustard seed is gonna grow, not every opportunity is gonna turn into, you know, kind of what happened to me. But if you're generous with the mustard seeds and not thinking of them as just that one tiny little thing, I'm just gonna do this one thing, like be generous, right? Be generous, reach into that pocket like you're Johnny appleseed, and throw those things in a way that it's exactly, exactly. Throw them and then let God water them and surrender it because we know only the Holy Spirit and God can work or move in those hearts. But it's it's a beautiful responsibility that we all have.

SPEAKER_03 26:33

It is, and I think the the last thing to bring up with this is we're on God's clock, not on our clock. Like we're looking at the clock saying, I've been praying for two years, I've been praying for five years. Yeah, yeah. Look, you could be praying for somebody for 40 years, it might be 49 years till they we don't know what it's going to be. It isn't our time, it's his time. And again, we don't know what that looks like. So patience, uh, God teaches me that right now with the remodeling of my home. I'm learning patience in a hotel room here. Um and patience in praying for people, and patience in everything that you've said is so true. And the fact that you used one word that we use all the time in counseling, which is listen. Everybody's so quick to speak. Be slow to anger, slow to speak. That I think is something probably we could put into this somehow, right? A little bit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:36

No, I think it, you know, I also wanted to just say before uh we move forward, I've forgiven the bullies, right? Once I've once I met Jesus and I understood who he was, and I I read, I devoured the book of Matthew, and I I understood what grace was. I had to forgive that thing. I had to, they were just kids. Like we've all done things, we've all been bullied, we've all had these hard things in our lives. That forgiveness was necessary, and they have been forgiven, um, just like I've been forgiven as well. And that that's an important part of trauma and healing. I know you know this as a uh as a therapist as well. That's that's necessary. That's necessary too.

SPEAKER_03 28:13

It is, it is. And if we look back in that cycle of abuse, chances are some of those kids were bullied or something going on at home. There's all sorts of things. So we could talk for hours. For someone listening who feels like lost, maybe they're Jewish, yeah, maybe they're not. Maybe they just are different and they're being bullied. What would you say to them?

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Um, well, I would just say the first thing to do is first of all, being able to think about how do I change my situation. So if you're listening to this podcast, you're already doing something good for yourself. I'm seeking outside counsel. I think the worst thing that we can do is get in bed. I I always joke and say to myself, when I was prior during a lot of this, um, the anxiety that led me to that prayer moment in the hallway, I wasn't talking to anybody. I was, I was holding tightly to everything and feeling like it was my responsibility to change myself, or I, why wasn't I stronger? Um, I must have been a failure as a mother, as a wife, because I couldn't do it all on my own. And it wasn't until I realized I need people, I need community, I need resources, I need help. And the place that I thought was refuge, which was my bed with the covers over, which was horrible because then my brain started attacking itself and spiraling. The moment I realized that I could captain my own mental ship and put my hands on my own wheels and steer my boat and the anxiety out of the storm, that gave me power and control that I didn't know I had. We all have that. I can name that now as the Holy Spirit. At the time, I just realized you get to a point where you say, I don't want to live like this anymore. I don't want to live like this anymore. No. And taking back your power and control, um, the first step is just recognizing I don't want to live like this anymore. The second is getting that community, finding therapy, finding if you need medication, whatever that is. Uh, for me, I ended up at this church where I was in a small group, and that small group of women were the most healing things in my life. So I would just say to the person who's listening and struggling with whatever that is, the self-doubt, the anxiety, the fear, don't do it alone because Satan will work on your mind. Satan wants nothing more than the most mediocre version of yourself. Um, and if that's captured by anxiety, those chains can be broken. You just have to take the first step and ask for help. He's real. And if you have a Bible, break that out. Yep. Oh, spiritual warfare is very, very real. In the middle of writing this book, I feel like I could write a book about writing the book about what happened uh in the right. You know what? God redeemed it all.

SPEAKER_03 31:00

Yeah. I'm like trying to do this podcast. I don't know, big bells and whistles going off down the hall. And then the the internet isn't fast enough. And then, you know, all the things that go wrong, it's like really okay. I'm still gonna do it. I'm still gonna do it. Yeah, so that's right. Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much for doing this. I want to give the name of your book here. Well, you give the name of your book. You tell us the name of the book.

SPEAKER_02 31:24

Um it's called the hallway, it's called the hallway miracle. You know, my hope is that it's a book you give away to somebody else, because my greatest hope is that it builds bridges between Christians and people of any faith, between anyone who is fearful uh that their circumstances can't be changed. God can do beautiful things. God can do beautiful, beautiful things with your brokenness, and there is hope.

SPEAKER_03 31:48

And you lead with love, and that's what you've done. I mean, you always lead with love. So thank you again. And to the listeners, you want to check this lady out and check her book out. I am going to. It is amazing. And I want to thank you for joining me on the AMCA. We always appreciate you and we appreciate our listeners. So my hope is that this conversation does encourage you in your healing journey and it reminds you that true restoration is possible. If this episode spoke to you, will you please share it with a friend and leave a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts and Spotify? I wouldn't be mad. That helps us reach more people with encouraging episodes like the one you heard today. Until next time, have a good week.

SPEAKER_00 32:33

You've been listening to the Amp Cast with Elisa Marie ProCop. To find out more, go to Ampcounseling.com. You can discover more information about all our services that we offer. Be sure to follow our social media platforms using the icons at the bottom of the page. Don't forget to check out our show notes for today's episode, where we will have links and contact info for today's guests. Well, that's all the time we have for this episode. Thanks for joining us. And we will see you next time for another edition of the Amp Cast with Elizabeth Pro Cop Dealing and Healing from Trauma.