Whole Man

#11: The Cost of Proving Yourself (Ft. Ryan McClanan)

• Brennan Hilleary • Season 1 • Episode 11

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0:00 | 57:52

Most people think burnout happens when you work too hard. Ryan McClanan would tell you it happens when you work from the wrong fuel.

In this episode, I sit down with Ryan, Navy veteran and owner of Victory Pest Management, to talk about what it really looks like to build something from nothing and what happens when the fear that got you there starts working against you.

In this episode you'll learn:

  • Why the ambition that builds your success can become the exact thing that destroys it
  • What survivor fuel actually looks like in real life and the moment Ryan realized his was running out
  • How growing up without money creates beliefs that follow you into your business even when you're thriving
  • Why borrowed certainty feels safe but keeps you from betting on yourself
  • The rock bottom moment that forced Ryan to slow down and do the inner work he'd been avoiding
  • The difference between abundance as a number and abundance as a feeling and why only one actually fulfills you

About Victory Pest Management

Ryan McClanan is the owner of Victory Pest Management, serving the Richmond area since 2017. Victory handles pest control, termites, mosquitoes, rodents, insulation, crawl space services, and gutter cleaning. 

 Visit victorypm.com to learn more.



Newsletter: Build With Brennan: Designed to help you build a better life, stop surviving, and thrive personally & professionally.

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Meet Ryan And Set The Theme

SPEAKER_00

What's going on, everybody? Welcome to another episode of Whole Man. I'm super excited for today. I have a guest that is a dear friend of mine, somebody that I've gotten the honor of working with, very well known in the Richmond community. His name is Ryan McLannan. Ryan is the owner of Victory Pest Management. And he's also a prior Navy, I don't know what they call it, a corpsman.

SPEAKER_02

Is that the Corpsman would be a medical guy, Navy veteran, you know, whatever you want to call it, but uh sailor. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So so Ryan, I wanted to have you on for a few reasons. One, I've always just loved your energy and your authenticity. I met you at a BI networking event. And when it comes to those things, you you can probably relate to this. You know the people that are performative and you can tell are wearing a mask and just aren't really putting their whole selves forward. And I remember when I first came to your BI meeting when you were the president, I just really loved how you led with your heart. And that's something that, especially if you're military and you're a business owner, it's it's not something that's super common, I would say. So that immediately stood out. And then I think I saw you again a year after that or something like that.

SPEAKER_02

A year, a couple months, maybe. Yeah, visited again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And um, so obviously we ended up just like supporting each other and working together. And I've always wanted to dive deeper into who Ryan really is, just because I know that um people like you who are, I don't know if you would consider yourself this, the black sheep of the family or the person who kind of went down a different path. Anyone who's an entrepreneur, they definitely have a story. So I'd love to hear from you. I guess talk to me about what your origin story is and what built you into being an entrepreneur. We'll start there.

SPEAKER_02

Um being an entrepreneur, honestly, was not in my plans, I guess. Um I guess it's just divine intervention, and it just kind of happened. Um, so I mean, depending on how far you want to go back into this story to kind of get it going, but I want to start when you were born.

SPEAKER_00

I'm just kidding. Yeah, right.

Childhood Upheaval And School Struggles

SPEAKER_02

Well, I grew up in uh I was born in Florida, you know, um, lived there till I was about seven or eight, uh till my parents got divorced, and we moved up here. Um and there's you know, there's in-depth stories to all of that, but we'll kind of skim and then I'll let you um break into it more. But ended up in Virginia, um, went to high school out in the West End here, and you know, I struggled in school, you know, and everything like that. I was uh from the elementary school, I guess, kind of dubbed learning disabled, had the dyslexia stuff and and and all that. So school was tough. And um, I guess jumping in, like, you know, we we moved here and financially we kind of always struggled a little bit. I mean, definitely people have been worse off than we were, but um were you uh were you in a household where your parents stayed together or did they settle? No, they divorced. Um my mom did get remarried. Um stepdad ended up having some medical issues and wasn't able to kind of like hold jobs and stuff like that. So, you know, working wise, my mom was kind of holding, holding it down um as a secretary, and then she had like a second job and all that kind of stuff. So moved here. I always started working uh since I was 15, got the workers' permit, was bagging groceries at Ucrops, doing that whole thing. Um, you know, went through, got through high school uh as best I could. Um, you know, I I think I I was listening to one of your earlier podcasts, you know, you might have struggled in school, but I probably more of just like I it was hard for me to concentrate on stuff I didn't want to concentrate on. Sure. So I think that was my the main the main issue there. Um so then you know, high school goes through and it comes down to like what are you gonna do after this? And uh college would have been great, but then you know, it was the financial end of it to like, you know, I couldn't put that on my mom. Um I always looked at it as like, well, you know, student loans, but like student loan, like I don't know if I want$100,000 worth of debt after I get out of school or something like that.

SPEAKER_00

Did you have an idea of what you wanted to do if you were to go to college?

SPEAKER_02

Um, you know, I had dreams and I was younger to be like uh an architect or you know, I like to I wanted to like design things or or create things, I guess, um if I put it very light, but going through high school like that wasn't gonna be an option. You know, I knew I wasn't gonna make it into college and go to, you know, Georgia Tech's architecture school or something, you know, it just probably wasn't gonna happen. So um I considered the military. My grandfather was career military, uh, got out as a commander, and he was probably one of the most influential people in my life, you know, for sure. Um dad was in the military as well. So, you know, getting out of high school, I I went to local community college for about a year or so and just wasn't as focused as I needed to be. You know, in high school, I uh kind of turned to, I was more of a party guy, you know, unfortunately. And that kind of sucked me into, you know, my goals weren't where they should have been back then, you know.

SPEAKER_00

Where do you think that that came from? Because it's interesting because I I experienced something very similar when I was younger. I feel like people assume if you're an entrepreneur now, you've always been ambitious, you've always been focused, you've always had that drive. And I think for some people who are just freaks of nature, that might be true.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But I've the more I talk to people, the more I'm realizing that that's not the origin story for a lot of entrepreneurs. They kind of started struggling in school or not really buying into the whole, hey, your worth is tied to your grades, and just never really had that super high achiever drive that you would think they would have. So I'm just curious, where do you think for you that lack of focus came from? Was it because you just weren't truly interested in what you were learning? Do you think in your soul you kind of knew that it wasn't really relevant to what you were going to do in the future?

SPEAKER_02

You know, I think there's a lot of paths you can go. Um, you know, when I was younger, it's not like I wasn't uh, you know, I was talking to my wife the other day about somebody she knows that uh is a doctor, and then her parents are doctors and grandparents are doctors, and like you can see when you have a family of that type of um I guess early success, you know, they are gonna push you towards that direction, and you're gonna have the questions you might have are answered by people who have had that experience. Um, you know, like I said, my mom got divorced uh when I was younger, my dad wasn't really in the picture, so um and my mom worked very hard, but she was secretary, you know. Uh so I guess when I got out, I was you know, I didn't have the hey, let's be a lawyer or a doctor or anything like that. Wasn't in my book or in my, you know. Uh so I always thought of like what can I do to make enough money to survive kind of thing. Um so I didn't have I guess that ambition to be like, I'm gonna be a business owner and and have these huge goals and dreams and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00

You were just trying to get through the day.

Why The Navy Finally Lit A Fire

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. Um so you know, I ended up going into the Navy um after about a year of uh going to community college. Kind of felt like I was uh I went into like business um management or whatever. Um and going to some going about a year and it just wasn't fulfilling me. I don't know. So I was like, something told me it's like you gotta get out of here, go do something else. So went and enlisted and uh went in the Navy and um boy, six, eight months later, boom, they were I'm gone. Uh my business partner actually, uh, which we met, he uh joined at the same time, so that was kind of cool. And you know, we both went, but we were kind of separated uh within the service or whatnot. But um yeah, went, I was operation specialist, basically, worked on radars and things like that. Uh ended up in uh had a chance to go to Hawaii and then those orders fell through, and then here I am back at Norfolk. So I was uh not too far away from home here, but uh but away, you know, doing my own thing at that point. So um the Navy was good and bad. I mean, you said you were in the military as well. It's a love and hate relationship. I I mean I learned so much um doing it, but then there's a lot of hardships there as well. Yeah, but it humbles you, and I think it built me into a pretty resilient person.

SPEAKER_00

What would you say the number one thing you learned from the military that has helped you and then the number one thing that has hurt you?

SPEAKER_02

Um, you know, the number one thing that would help me. So the uh the more the the sharper you were as a sailor or whatever member, the more you learned, the more um responsibility took on, the more you would advance. Sure. And uh it's like, okay, you know, more responsibility, learn, learn how to do more things, you're gonna give me a bigger rank and more money and kind of things like that. So I mean, that was my goal. So I did go in as an E1, got out as an E5, and I was, you know, I made it to E5 probably two and a half, going on three years. I had an early promotion, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00

What was the difference between the drive and ambition you felt in the military versus at school? Because it sounds like there was a switch that went off somewhere. Especially if you got promoted early, because I know how the military works when it comes to that. You have to, there's certain things you have to do.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And it's all about hustle, grind, whether that's physically, whether that's mentally. So I'm just curious, was there a moment where you've started to notice that your ambition in a way turned on?

SPEAKER_02

Um, well, it was just you're so you're part of something bigger, I guess. You know, so when I went in, was uh I got a boot camp and was in a school in Chicago when 9-11 happened. So, you know, you get out of boot camp, you're kind of getting ready to go to your first um duty station, which is my ship, and you're like, oh boy, you know, we're going to you know, we're going to war kind of thing. And boy, we did, you know, so um, you know, did two pretty long deployments and everything like that, but learned a lot. And again, the more I learned, um, the more I felt like I was serving my country and helping and things, and then I was rewarded with uh, you know, whether higher rank and then just more responsibility, but then less time doing that work. I mean, I just got like a like I wasn't saying a cushier job, but like a little little higher-end uh job. And at the end I was getting out, I was called a tactical information coordinator, and it was usually a much higher ranked uh position and that I got to carry and you know felt prideful of it, to be honest. You know, that's great. So that kind of gave me the uh the ambition to to go for it, you know, make it happen.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. It sounds like especially, I don't know if you can relate to this, growing up in a I'll loosely say broken home, especially when you've had to adopt a ton of responsibility when you were younger. Yeah, you don't really have time to do things for you. It's really all about how do I serve others. And it also is easy to feel like you don't belong, especially when you're going to school with other kids who maybe have more stable families, you feel like that they are really into their schoolwork. It's almost like you're looking around you and everybody else is green and you're the only purple one in the room. And I think when people talk about black sheep or curse breakers or just people who have always been woven from a different cloth, it's really easy to just feel left out and like you don't have a sense of direction or purpose. And it sounds like the military for you was that sticky sense of purpose for a long time. Yep.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

What uh what made you I know there's a crossroads that happens when you're in the military where you can decide to stay or you can decide to go. So what influenced your decision to leave? And then how was the transition after that for you?

SPEAKER_02

So, you know, I did um, and you know, as you've been in, it kind of breaks up within tours. So I did, you know, start up with four years and I was attached to a ship, right? And um, you know, what happens in that four years for everybody is gonna be a little bit different. Um, as I said, the war just kind of started. Um, so I literally checked into my ship and I walk on this huge monster thing, and uh I meet my chief and he's like, Here's your leave papers, go on home for two weeks. I'm like, why? He's like, Oh, we're going on deployment. So we're on deployment, and then when you're kind of signing up for all that, they tell you it's gonna be six months, and that thing ended up being like nine and a half or something like that. And uh Yeah, you know, um so that was tough, and then the second second tour came around and it was just as bad. So end of my four year at sea, then you want to look at shore duty. Um so I was looking around at shore duty, and you know, when you're in the midst of uh, you know, we're in Afghanistan doing that thing at that point, um, there wasn't a lot of great uh shore duty available, I guess. And it was weighing out uh, you know, being a recruiter somewhere where you can't really pick where you're going. Didn't like that. And I did have a uh somebody in my on my ship or whatever, that was a rock star recruiter, and he said it was the worst thing you ever did, don't do that. So I was like, okay, I don't want to do that. And then just looking around, I guess I couldn't find the job that I wanted to sign back up for for another four to six years. And of course, when you're in a war situation, they want you to re-sign, they're gonna offer you a bunch of money, but they want you to stay on a ship or go to another ship because that's where the navy operates is in the ocean, you know. Yeah. So I just waited out and I was like, man, you know, how much do I love this? Uh which a piece of me did, and a piece of me just was burned out. Burned out. And, you know, there's a lot of uh Navy's a tough thing, you know, when especially when you're out at sea for a long time. Yeah. Um you know, I'll just ready to move on.

Burnout At Sea And Leaving Service

SPEAKER_00

Sure. Kind of thing. And it sounds like there is this it's interesting because I feel like I talk about this a lot on this podcast in general. There's like ego-led decisions and then there's heart-led decisions. And I don't know if you consider yourself this. I can kind of get a sense for this kind of energy when I talk to people. There's people who naturally have the ability to tap into their intuition more, which is their heart, and then people who predominantly, based off of how they grew up and their conditioning, really rely on this way too much. That sounds like it was a very intuitive decision, because logically it would have made property sense to stay in. So I guess for you, what caused the feeling within you to be so strong to where you're like, okay, I need to leave and I need to do something different, even if that meant going into the unknown.

SPEAKER_02

Um, you know, and then you mesh mentioned intuition. I guess, yes. I mean, uh it was kind of a more that, you know, I didn't back then I probably didn't recognize what that was. And just, I mean, over the last few years that's become more a part of my life, you know, anyway. But uh yeah, I was just feeling it like, you know, am I gonna do this for 20 years? Like, oh, that's gonna be a drag. Yeah. You know, and uh I didn't want it to be that, but that's kind of what I felt. So all right, I'm getting out. And uh you know, I was previously married at that point. Um family friend of my ex-wife's worked in pest control. So, you know, getting out, you know, I did radars and uh track, you know, I built tactical pictures for uh, you know, uh for the action the tactical action officer and all that kind of stuff, and that doesn't really relate to to real world. Sure. Yeah. So um, you know, trying to find a job and the unfortunate part in some things is like it's just like if you you know, it doesn't like what you did four years in the Navy doesn't really matter out in the real world a lot of times, depending on what you did. And that's kind of what I was finding at the time. Um, so I ended up I found myself in pest control. Um go interview with the company, great local business here. Um, and I started way back on the ground level again. You know, I was making a living in the military, went back and started a new job for like I remember it was nine dollars and twenty-five cents an hour when I started.

SPEAKER_00

Woo! It's a ching. Yeah, boy.

SPEAKER_02

Um so it was back at the ground floor, you know. Um but it was a you know, I I wanted to get into like the I don't know, I wanted to do sales at that point. Sure. They're like, well, you know, that could be a possibility, but let's uh let's just get you in the business and we'll go from there. And I didn't move up quickly, um, which I've always felt like I've been able to do.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Um what do you attribute that to within yourself?

SPEAKER_02

I I I you know, you you get in there and you see where you want to be, so you might see another person that has this job and and all of that, and I'm like, I'm not gonna do that. You know, I mean I I I I I I feel like, you know, I don't want to sound conceited, but like a lot of I can't not do anything anybody else can, you know, as long as you put your mind to it, kind of thing. So I was able to kind of move up, um, got out of the the baseline doing starting at the termite end of it and got into what they call the utility tech, and then I had my own route for a little bit, and then a year and a half after starting, I think a sales position opened up, and that's what I kind of did for about 12 years with them.

SPEAKER_00

Wow. Yeah. That's a that's a big run. 12 years. Yeah, I didn't realize it was that long.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and I mean it was a great business, a great company. Um, very like it was like a family, you know, great employees there, bosses, everything like that. So it was a nice place to be. Um, and even though it started down here, there was a path, as long as you wanted to work that hard to get to the you know, the and what I wanted to make was like if I could make six figures, that would be like just amazing kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_02

So over over that time, I was able to work my way up there doing sales and service and things and really learning the business and you know, was able to, you know, purchase a home and and all of that. So I mean that was a huge thing for me, I guess, in my life. And growing up, you know, not having like I said, we kind of struggle financially. We grew up in apartments a lot. Yeah. Um in Florida we had a house but lost it and then moved up here. Um and then it was just like apartments, apartments, apartments, and that was my one goal. Nothing this thing wrong with living in an apartment, but just for me, I was like, I want my own kind of house or be able to have my own space and things. And sure I did finally accomplish that, so that was great, you know.

SPEAKER_00

That's great. Do you feel like because you grew up having that role model of poverty in a way, do you feel like that has affected your mental health and maybe your inner state, even when you're accomplishing these things, even when you got the house, even when you've built the business? And we haven't even gotten to the business part yet, which I want to get into. I'm just curious what your perspective is on how experiencing hardship with money when you were younger formed you in your adult years.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I've carried anxiety for a lot of lot of my life, and uh one of the biggest things anxiety is money, anything surrounding it, um, being able to get it, being able to keep it, you know. I guess it's just like that's my biggest fear uh that I deal with. And when you own a business, there's a lot of that you have to deal with. So it's been a great learning experience for sure. But that's what I battle with, definitely.

SPEAKER_00

Sure. Yeah. And and for you, do you feel like that's improved over time as far as your because I know what you're talking about. There's there's definitely this, and and I've been experiencing this and have been transitioning out of it, thankfully, which is when you grow up in poverty and you learn limiting beliefs that say money is hard to make, money is scarce, money's not safe, maybe there's a fear deep down that we're not going to be relatable anymore if we make a lot of money. Who am I without the struggle? Who am I who am I without the suffering? For you, what have you done to really start addressing that within yourself? Because I've definitely, since I've known you, I've noticed there've been there's been progress with that.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So we'd love to hear.

SPEAKER_02

From the get-go again, uh, you know, I had a goal, so I wanted to start the business. I mean, let me say, I mean, I've always had the uh the anxiety about it, but when I I guess I battled at first like being in sales of sell more. Sell more, sell more, sell more.

SPEAKER_00

So it started when you worked for somebody else. Like that's what kind of started to prepare you for moving from the scarcity mindset. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So, you know, getting so I was in the military and you know, you're pretty much taken care of there. Uh, you have some place to live, um, you could eat every day, and they pay you. So you're in pretty good shape. You know, you are, you know, might be living on the ship or on on you know, base housing or something like that, but you're taken care of. Now, when you get into the real world, um, at that time I was newly married, making nine dollars an hour. It wasn't, you know, we were living at uh like a family friend's house at that point. So I mean it was I had to battle up to be able to get a home. And uh the way I did that was you know, through sales, I guess. And yeah, uh, the more you work, you know, like I said, with that business, the more I worked, the more I sold, the more I would get. And then I still wanted to progress, I wanted to have those things, and that's kind of how I did it, but I still had a extreme uh anxiety about you know money and everything like that.

SPEAKER_00

Sure. So even when you were accomplishing these things externally, you didn't feel good. Sure. Yeah, that's what it felt like. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um but then I got into, you know, so moving on, started the business, got that thing rolling.

SPEAKER_00

So what what triggered that? Let's uh I'd love to hear because that's a huge leap, right? You gotta have a special kind of soul and spirit to be able to be like, all right, well, I'm gonna go from this. On the outside, what looks like a very certain situation, and then move into a ton of uncertainty.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So I would just love to hear what was going through your head as you were deciding that, what was going on in your heart, what was your experience like? What were the events that led up to that? And then what did it look like?

Starting Over In Pest Control Sales

SPEAKER_02

So, you know, Roland doing my thing at the pest control company, you know, 12 years in at that point. Um, I started kind of looking around. I'm a very observant person. Um, and maybe it's back to the intuition. Like I can I could see that just stuff was changing, patterns were changing, and what that ended up, I was like, Oh, they're gonna sell the business. And I got that kind of feeling ahead of time, and then coincidentally I had a buddy that uh called me and they owned an HVAC company, and they were like, hey, you know, we're looking for a residential sales guy, would you be interested in doing that? And I was burnt out at the pest control because like I said, I was making great money, but I mean, you just had to like roll so much, it was just a lot to kind of maintain. Um, and I was looking for something else to do, and I took the leap and went and did it. And uh, you know, got there, and they were a newer company as well. So I would say like the maybe the onboarding wasn't as and the training wasn't as great, and I appreciated. Here's a truck, go do it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I appreciated the opportunity and everything like that. Um, but I guess the only down thing is like I wasn't an expert in that business getting thrown out into um kind of like that field, and you know, they were kind of heavier on the commercial side getting and the residential guy over here was just kind of I mean, no, they were working into it as like a new business as well. I can totally see that now. I mean, like you're onboarding everything, you know, training systems is a thing, and you don't have that at the beginning. You have to kind of make it up as you go. So um anyway, did that for a while, and at that point I had uh you throw this in. So I'd we had just built my uh Charlene and I have, you know, built a townhouse that was a Yv C that we bought, yes, yeah. Um bought a townhouse, so we had that over the head, and I had uh, I guess we were there, and then I'd left and went to the HBC while we were there, and you know, just didn't take off as fast as I wanted it to. So kind of got in a area of desperation somewhat. You know, first thing I did was like a gig, you know, Uber, Uber was like right off the bat, so it's like I need to do something. So I started How long ago was this when you were not? 2017. Okay, wow. Yeah. Yeah. So 2017, I uh, you know, Ubered for a minute, and I was like, oh, I gotta do something else. Well I had my you know, before I left the pest control company, um there's kind of like two levels of of certifications you can get. Registered technician, then you can get your commercial. And he urged everybody to get your commercial because we had the years of experience and all that stuff, and he's like, I'll pay for your tests and everything like that. So I was like, you know, I'll do that. At that time when I took it, wasn't planning on leaving or anything. You know, this was before all the um heading out of there. So I got my commercial license. Um, and I had that and I kept it up while I was even at the HVAC company. So I was like, well, pest control's not bad. I know I know I could sell it, I know how to do it, you know. Um, let's see what it is to make a business. Because I mean I could just build a job, you know, I could just do it and not have to worry about anything.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_02

So I did some Googling on my phone. I remember standing in my kitchen and went on the SCC website and got my, you know, came up with a name and then just did it, you know. I don't know. Went out and bought a used Tacoma with like 300 something thousand miles on it, take a loan on it. It was like 3,500 bucks. And you know, another thing to throw into this is like I had uh I had like a little nest egg there, but I'm so anxious to use any of it that I just did the business with nothing.

SPEAKER_00

So you had so you had reserves, however, you just wanted to bootstrap it and see what you could do to you didn't want to build off of debt, right?

SPEAKER_02

It sounds like exactly. And I was um why I bootstrapped it, I don't know, because I was so anxious that I would fail and lose. Because my grandfather left me uh, you know, a little bit of a nest egg or whatnot, and felt that was important to keep that, and like I felt like what I was trying to do was I didn't, you know, back then I probably didn't believe in myself as much as I should have, and be like, hey, I can throw this money in here and let's go. But so I tried to bootstrap it, did bootstrap it. Um got it, you know, got it going and started. My brother sent me, he has a little sign shop in Florida, he sent me a magnet, put it on the uh side of this ugly Tacoma, and then I just started doing it at night, you know, um, advertising on Facebook and things like that.

SPEAKER_00

And were you doing this full time at that point? No, no, no, no, no. Okay, but you were you so you were still working for the Southern Stone.

SPEAKER_02

Got it. And then you started to work that out. So started victory, and uh then what happened from there is I went to, you know, we'd set up little stands and stuff here to advertise the HVAC company, and we were at an energy fair and sitting at my table, and you know, you have uh clients come around, stuff like that, but in between, uh a couple people from other tables were coming around, we'd chatting. So I was talking to this fella who uh owned an insulation company. He was just asking me questions and things like that, telling my background and everything, and by the end of our conversation, he was like, Man, if you ever want a job, you know, give me a call and handed me a card. And he walked off.

SPEAKER_00

And uh How did you feel in that moment whenever you had that conversation? And then he said that to you.

SPEAKER_02

I was kind of ready to give him a call. You know, I was like, Wow, you know, and that was like I held that thing, told my wife, and um she's like, I don't call him, you know. So called him, and uh a couple months later, here I am working at an insulation company. They did spray foam and crawl space stuff and all of that, and um walk in there and I had some experience with with insulation and all from the pest control days and and all of that. Um and I just took hit the ground running, you know. Um he was you know, I got some I got a great training there, they were there. I had more understanding of the business by that time, and I was more just seasoned in sales and everything like that. So I was uh kind of took the ground and hit it. And uh it was a great experience, and he was all about me having a pest control company on the side. Yeah um let me uh drive his truck with his label on it. He's like, you know, they got a quarter panel back there, put your logo on there. So, I mean, for the first couple years, you know, I would go, you know, we did a lot of crawl space work. I did retrofit stuff for existing homes. So, you know, somebody wants to get a really nice crawl space, but you have mice in there. Well, we gotta take care of that before we spend all this money on right. So I was able to pick customers up that way. Um, and I was using, you know, different apps and things like that to to get more customers, and he didn't mind if I ran his sales calls and then ran my sales calls because a lot of them would um feed each other. So that that went on for several years. Um, maybe two or three. I was able to build up enough business to hire a technician, you know. So that was my next big like, holy cow. So I got some, you know, there's a short period of time where I had the income of the insulation job, which was great on its own. Right. Um, I had extra income from the pest control that I've been selling and doing.

SPEAKER_00

And you could have stayed there, right? You could have stayed in that certainty of I'm I'm noticing a pattern, yeah, right, which is when you grow up in scarcity, we put so much value into what I call borrowed certainty. Like we put so much value into, well, as long as I know money is coming in, I can tolerate whatever.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And it sounds like as you've gone through those different phases in your life, I feel like there's a shift that probably happens where you started to realize that the borrowed certainty was not as important as your heart desire or your maybe the emotional fulfillment that you were looking for. Because you use the word burnout a lot. Obviously, that's my language. And um, so I guess for you, like you had, I know you're probably going down this path. So you had this cushiony life in the sense of you're making good money over here, you're making good money over here. What was the thing that finally drove you to be like, all right, I have to bet on myself and I have to stop valuing certainty as much as I value trust in myself?

Money Anxiety And Scarcity Conditioning

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So yeah, I had to, like I said, it was a short window to where everything was good. I had income over here, income over there. And um, you know, we uh I guess I would get into that. So, you know, the funny thing at the insulation company, the uh the owner of that came in a couple times. He knew I had the pest control company, obviously. He's like, man, you can just jump out there and do it. Go out on your own and go do it. And uh I was scared, you know, I gotta be honest. And I was living the uh a cushy life at that point. I was like, man, I just want to breathe right now. Like, this is one time of my life that I was like comfortable. Um had just uh I guess just bought another house, so I was able to um, you know, having the VA loan or whatnot, I had one home here. Uh wife and I saw a home over uh in Midlothian where we live now, and you know, I was able to qualify for both of them. And so we just made a leap and we rented out the townhouse for a couple of years, you know, got this other home, and uh that was a big step. And you know, still in the comfort zone there. And uh I remember he told me again, he's like, Yeah, you should go out on your own and uh do it again, didn't do it. Um then COVID hit. So I guess now we're about 2020 or so. Um a lot of the retrofit insulation stuff that kind of rocked that business a little bit as far as like people didn't want big projects in their house. But then pest control wise, my business went way up. And because I think people were just at home, um, you know, looking, you know, so it's just being a small company, it's hard to like, you know, market to everybody, but that situation where people were just home, even little old victory at that time, uh, people were finding us and signing up. So um it really built up and hired that technician again, was rolling good, and then uh the the fellow who owned the uh installation company is like I'm selling the business, so it got acquired and um wasn't a bad situation or anything like that, but bigger corporate company wasn't crazy about me, uh side hustling my victory, pest management at the same time. So sure, yeah. Um you know, wrote it out as long as I could, and then I had to jump and do it full time.

SPEAKER_00

Interesting, yeah. So we this is an interesting pattern that I've noticed. It's whenever we have a desire that's on our heart and we're not making the move on it, our situation and our circumstances we're so powerful. I think that we create circumstances in our life so we can actually see, oh, we need to move over here. Yeah, and the longer that we wait, the more stuff falls apart in our life. And that's what it sounds like. The universe has a way of working.

SPEAKER_02

Um now that I'm getting more talked into the woo-woo stuff. Yes, sir. I love the woo-woo, man. Um, you know, these these things kept pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing. So I jumped in and uh, man, it was like the most nerve-wracking thing ever at that time. Yeah. So I've got, you know, a rental house, I've got our new home, which is a you know, nothing crazy fancy, but the biggest house I've ever, you know, had to be responsible for taking care of. Sure. Um, and then so I was freaking out, and uh a lot of that anxiety went into I just put it into working out. So I was probably in some of the best shape of my life at that point, and then overdid it, and I snapped the muscle, like uh tore muscle pretty bad. Wow. Enough to put me out of I couldn't work for you know, and I just taken on, I had one technician, I just taken on my business partner. He was, I can't remember exactly how long, a couple months, not even a year in the door. And here I am, like I'm the technical expert, and I would be doing most of everything. Um I'm laid out. So, and and I believe it was going into the winter time, which in pest control was the is the is, you know, everybody dreads the winter time in our business. Sure. So that just kind of broke me, man. To be honest, like the stress of that. I just uh you get to that point where like I don't know, I just you know, God's gonna take it and it's gonna work out.

SPEAKER_00

So you're you were forced to stop fighting. Surrender.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yep. And I'm like, this is either gonna work or it's not. And at that point, you know, you're running a business. I mean, you have money coming in, but then money goes out and it's just a ratio. We gotta keep that. And I mean, there was a point to where uh it came pretty close to like dipping below where you want to be. Yeah. And you know, giving up doesn't get you anything, but debt, you know, or something like that. So it's like we just gotta kind of keep keep pulling, and it just worked out somehow. You know, pulled out of it and uh, you know, kind of kept going, kept going. I mean it's and uh we're years beyond that now. We're not out of the woods, but we're way more comfortable than we were. You know, we're kind of over there's always humps in owning a business that you gotta hit. And uh we got out of that one, got onto the next stride, and um learned a lot from it. You know, you can't uh things are gonna be good, things are gonna be bad, but I just stay focused on um, you know, the ultimate goal, that next step, and usually, you know, as long as you keep your head in the right spot, I think you'll get there kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00

So if you could go back to that version of you, that version of you where you pulled a muscle, everything was collapsing, everything in your reality was showing you that it's probably time to quit or give up. If you could talk to that version of you right now as the version of who you are now, what would you say?

SPEAKER_02

Um I'll tell you more about like what happened then. So, like when I was kind of out, um, I slowed down. It's the first time I probably slowed down than I could ever remember. Couldn't go to I didn't have work to go to, didn't have all that to kind of think about, and it gives you a lot of time with yourself and worked out a lot of stuff, you know, to be honest. And you just kind of slow down and you start looking at what you've done, looking at what you're going to do, look at what you're doing now. And uh that that was good.

Bootstrapping Victory After A Leap

SPEAKER_00

So, you know, I just what was the number one thing you feel like if you're comfortable sharing this? You talked about you had to confront, I call this the inner inconvenient work. Yeah, and a lot of times we have to be forced to do this, especially if we're the high achiever archetype, created something from nothing. Our biggest enemy is slowing down. So I'm just curious, when you have that time to reflect, what was one of the most important realizations that you had?

SPEAKER_02

That uh, you know, however it came about, that you're the problem. If you run into a wall, you're the problem. And that's a hard thing to swallow all the time. But you have the ability to create whatever path you want. A lot of people kind of be like, oh, this everything's against me, everything's against me. It's probably because you're not changing what you're doing. And you gotta uh realize that, you know, well, your head, like you said earlier, what your head tells you is probably right isn't always right. You know, you're gonna feel it somewhere else, probably what you need to do, and that might be the harder direction to go, but it tells you for a reason. And the more you can start listening down, you know, in your heart versus your head, has made a big difference, you know, and it's a continual battle for sure.

SPEAKER_00

But how how did you how did you being the problem show up? What did you realize that you were doing that was contributing to your situation?

SPEAKER_02

Um you know, maybe I had an inner fear of failure kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00

Um which drove you to do what?

SPEAKER_02

Figure out whatever I had to do not to, you know, and just not just give up. You know, so I mean, uh if I couldn't like I said, I couldn't work, so what what can I do? I can learn about marketing. I can, you know, fill myself with knowledge. I've read books, listen to books a lot more than anything else. Listen to like self-help books, like you know, because you're uh running a business. I mean you don't have anybody to really answer to all the time, or not answer to, but go to about anything. Um so you gotta keep keep your mind in check, you know, your goals and um and all of that. So just you know, yeah, just to be able to all of that, just educate yourself because you can really learn all that information's out there. You know, these days it's a click away, whatever you want to do. A lot of smart people put stuff in books or podcasts or or anything. You know, you can you just gotta learn, you know, listen, learn, and and be able to take somebody else's experience and advice and maybe apply it to yourself and look at yourself and be like, Well, I made a mistake, I need to do this way or that way.

SPEAKER_00

Sure. Yeah. And I feel like there's a way to do that. Because there's and I think that you're really touching on this. So there's this stuff I call survivor fuel that is really potent and powerful at first that we can use to force success into our reality. And and that stuff, especially when you come from hardship, when you come from being a victim, when you come from cards that you were dealt as a kid that were really difficult, that survivor fuel is really, really powerful. It's the fear of not being good enough, it's the fear of not running out of money, or sorry, the fear of running out of money, it's maybe anger at your situation, it's maybe shame and guilt of the things that you've done in your past. All of this stuff you can use, it's just energy. And you can use that to get to a certain place. But what I found in my own life is it was corrosive. It was, it helped me get the success that I was looking for, but I felt like shit. And it's interesting what happens when we get to a certain set point with that. It's like we we can take that fuel to a certain point, but then we have to make a certain decision because at some point we're gonna be forced to look at the things within us and figure out is this how you want to live? Yeah, do you truly want to have all these external accomplishments at the expense of your internal fulfillment? Do you really, is that worth it to you, or do you feel like you deserve more? And I feel like that maybe I don't know if you've like labeled it this way, but I feel like that rock bottom moment you hit when you were forced to slow down, what you realized is that that inner fear, that inner critic that's that have been driving you up to that point, there's way more to life than just being driven by that. Yeah, you know, and it sounds like you've started to make this transition, I call it soul fuel. So instead of I'm not good enough, I have to prove myself, my identity is wrapped into this thing that I'm creating. Instead, it's like, I deserve to have what I want, I want to make an impact on the world, and I want to be a purpose-driven person. And when you start to switch that fuel, it's like uh it's a different feeling, right? It's not that maybe low-level anxiety and stuff is there sometimes, but from my experience, you also get that balanced with a sense of knowing and peace. And you have this deep understanding that you're not gonna have to go back to those situations that you were in when you were a kid. Like I won't ever have to go back to living in a store. Yeah, I'm never gonna have to go back to being the person to give my mom money because she couldn't afford food. So I'm just curious if you feel like whether you knew this logically or not, after that rock bottom, you hit a different level of purpose.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Um, you know, and talking about the rock bottom in more of a professional sense. I mean, of course, there's personal stuff from your whole life in that as well. Yeah. So that time to sit around and think, I wasn't always just thinking about work, you know, I was thinking about me, you know. Yeah. Mistakes you made, all that kind of stuff. And but so yes, um, you realize just that like you gotta forgive yourself and then not go back there, you know, and then make that change. And uh, you know, it's hard for people to do look in the mirror and be like, man, yeah, what are you doing? Um and then it's hard to be, you know, I don't know any perfect people out there, but sure, if you can pick out a couple of those things that aren't that weren't great about you and make it a point to change them one at a time, maybe, you know, helps out. And uh yeah, so that definitely took a turn. And then now just I mean living it at the moment, you know. Yeah, making those changes change your life. I mean, it really do.

SPEAKER_00

So where are you at now? It sounds like you've you've been through quite a journey when it comes to you've created a lot of you're really well known in the area. I mean, you've created a lot of success, and I know that there's probably more that you want to do.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

What is your vision for your life at this point? Is it continuing to expand the business? Is it more internal fulfillment? I'm just curious to hear what is your focus now that you've experienced these lessons and are continuing to experience them.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Um, you know, you get asked that question a lot. Like, what do you, you know, what is your plans with the business? You because you know, a lot of folks want to build it up real quick and sell it. I mean, the the industry is very ripe for that. Like, I don't know if I want to do that. Um, because you know, I am enjoying the ride, I guess. And the it's fulfilling to have a goal, meet it, you know. And uh, you know, one thing I want to well, one thing I want to do too is just uh, you know, I want to build a good business like the one I worked at, you know, when I was at the pest control company. Um great employees, I'm kind of a family environment. I mean, just good people. Everybody liked working there, things like that. If I can create that for other people, sounds pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Um it's very heart led.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and taking a piece from working at the insulation company, you know, I mean, he uh they ran a great business there. Um happy employees. Uh, you know, he wasn't like so much like, hey, you gotta work from eight to five and you gotta do this. Like, as long as I took care of his work and and and did a good job, then you know, I had free time as well. So if I can apply that to my business also and just not like work my employees to the bone, you know, I want them to be happy and all that, and that's fulfilling to me is to maybe build a business like that. Because I mean, the big goal of you know, do you want a$10 million revenue business and all that stuff? I mean, sure, maybe. I don't know. There's there's goods and ups and downs to to everything. Sure. Um, to where I think I'm more about I want comfort and freedom or um uh versus just like the monetary value of just uh yeah, oh, I need all the money, you know, which I don't think is a good way to go.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think it's it's interesting because two things can be true at once, right? Because one of the things that I've had to deal with with my money blocks is what I call them, have been thinking in black and white. So I used to think that money is bad. Money is the root of all evil. And I would look at people with a lot of money and think that the way that they got there was immoral in a way. And what I've come to realize is both things can be true. You can have a ton of material success, and you can also be a very heart-led-driven person who doesn't value money that much. And so it sounds like, which is awesome to hear, you're tapping into the soul fuel. It's like, I want to create a good experience for people. I want to make people feel as good as I felt when I worked for that pest control company. I want to inspire people, I want to impact people. It's less about the money revenue goal for you, and it's more about the experience that you want to provide. Yeah. And I think that when you approach things from that lens, you do enjoy the journey a lot more because you're not attaching your worth or your sense of success to this monetary number. Because what's the point of hitting this number if you've sacrificed your soul to get there?

SPEAKER_02

Right. And I see that, you know, like owning a business, and I I try to be, I don't want to say well known. Um, I try to know other people that maybe do have businesses and things like that and have relationships with them because we all got, we're all dealing with the same kind of thing in different ways. Um and uh I guess I've seen people, you know, want to grow extremely quickly to where you know you bypass the comfort of it. You know, you got something, you have something great going. If you you just cause more stress and chaos in trying to maybe get the that revenue so fast, but you're forgetting about your customer service, you're forgetting about your employees. So when you get there, do you have happy employees to do you the business that you've gained? Right. You know, are your customers happy with the the business, you know, or the the service that they're getting now? You know, but you're so crazy trying to deal with all these other things, all this stuff goes to the wayside. Yeah. So I think that, you know, uh that's what you got to weigh out.

SPEAKER_00

For sure. It sounds like it sounds like it for me that poses the question, what's the rush?

SPEAKER_02

Can be, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You know, because I feel like what what are we compensating for? Like what is what is the void we're trying to fill? What is the thing within us that feels like we have to do it quickly? Is it true lack of resources? Is it because if I don't do this, then I'm gonna run out of money, which for some people is maybe true initially. And then I would say use what you've got. If you truly can't pay your bills, if you've taken a leap and you need to make this thing work, there is nothing wrong with going all in and hustling and grinding for a little bit. However, I think if people aren't careful, they'll feel like a slave to their own business, even when they have enough resources. And because they have beliefs and behaviors that came from survival mode still active, they're gonna recreate those circumstances even when they have enough resources. And that's what you call when you hear people talk about self-sabotage. And when you hear people who have all the success that you could ever want externally, but internally you feel dead inside. I I really truly feel like it's because it isn't coming from a heart-led place, it's coming from fear. And uh whatever we whatever energy we create from is the energy that we amplify. And I think that that's what maybe your your journey, what it sounds like, and this is what I'm experiencing too as a business owner. If we operate from the fear of not having enough, that will be what our business looks like. Right.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_00

You know, we'll we'll feel broke. Exactly. No matter how much money we have.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yeah. So you have to find another fulfillment. And uh, you know, that's kind of what I'm I'm aiming to do. You want to yeah, I mean, you just want to always operate like I guess in a good and I say good, you know, you don't want to go down a dark road, like, hey, you get all this money coming in, and then you do something nefarious with it. I mean, people that can happen. Yeah if people wanted money so much because part of them doesn't actually want it. Right. And then uh so I've just yeah, trying to keep my my head in a good space. I want to do things for a good reason. You know, I feel like I have a responsibility now, having employees and things, you know, they have to live, they have to eat, and it's kind of on my back now. Yeah, you know, so that's I just want to do stuff above board and um like I said, there's no rush, you know. Uh I feel like, hey, Ryan wants to get a two million dollar company. Well, if I do it way too fast, you know, in my world, and like I said, the service slips and and all of that stuff, I mean that's ultimately gonna roll downhill and affect people that trusted me to provide for them, you know. So that's that's something I always try to keep in my head, you know, also. And then, you know, business owners, you can line up ten of them, they're all gonna have different paths. Sure. You know, so like I might say, like, what's the rush? Now if I came from a wealthy family and you can put hundreds of thousands of dollars into it, then heck yeah. Because you can, you know, you've got the the parachute, you've got the backing, you know, you might have more uh yeah help, like you know, what if you're you know your dad or your mom or something like that, they own a business, they've had a business for 30 years. Well, they're gonna they're gonna be able to provide that knowledge to you. If you don't start out with that or have the ability to um, you know, in my case, I gotta buy the knowledge typically. Um, you know, it's just a different setup. Everybody has different paths. So, you know, I can't listen to like some growth podcast and be like, oh, you want to go from this to, you know, it's not everybody's good path, I guess, or you know, so you gotta be careful with that, which direction you choose.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, that's great advice, man. And and if somebody's listening to this and maybe they're a business owner or an aspiring business owner, or maybe a self-diagnosed high achiever, which I'm hoping are most of the people who listen to this podcast, the people who they've always known in their heart that they're meant for a lot of great things, and maybe they're super driven and ambitious, but they're feeling burned out and unfulfilled, and they're just feeling like they're kind of trapped in the success that they're creating. What would be your number one biggest point of advice for them?

SPEAKER_02

Well, that to be aware that that can happen. I mean, you know, you might build your dream, but then like you said, you can't even enjoy it. You know, uh I have things that I hope for, like one abundance and freedom. And I mean, abundance is not like I need all the money. Abundance is to be comfortable enough to take my wife out to dinner. I can go get a new outfit if I want to. We can go on vacation, and it's not that big of a worry. Freedom is that I'm not, you know, eight to five in the field, you know, busting my hump every day. You know, I can I can be free to do other things and think about other things and necessarily work all the time. So I try to keep that in mind. Um, you know, you can build something great, but then you also build like something that'll crush you again.

Heart-Led Growth And Practical Advice

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. You know, so what would what would you say somebody can practically do, like a tactical piece of advice for somebody who doesn't want to go down that road? Maybe they see themselves going down the road of I'm building this thing that I'm feeling trapped by. What is a tactical thing that they can do to start shifting the paradigm and start enjoying it a little bit more?

SPEAKER_02

Um, well, I'm still learning that too. So I mean, it's that's that's hard to say. I guess I would go back to like look in the mirror and you know, what do you really want? And uh, you know, uh do you really want to sacrifice all of this to get it? And there's gonna be growth, I think, takes sacrifice in a way. Um you know, it might be stress, it might be sacrificing time to learn what you have to do to go to that next level, might be sacrificing money to hire somebody to help, you know, not hire or you know get help, like you know, reached out to you. You know, you sometimes you're gonna need answers. Um, you know, you just uh how you how you gonna do that? I mean, I I don't know the answer to it. I love it.

SPEAKER_00

Well, that was that was great because the first thing that I always ask people, and and I helped you with like the business coaching and stuff, which I've kind of gotten away from, it's more so the deeper stuff now. Question number one is is what I'm building something I actually want?

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_00

What would I allow myself to have if I wasn't scared of having it? So that's a really, really good question because a lot of people pursue the thing that they think they should want based off of what everybody else tells them. And that's gonna feel really hard and it's gonna feel feel really unsustainable and it's gonna feel shitty. So step one is are you building the life that you want? Are you building the life that you think you should have? And then question number two is like, okay, well, if it is something that I want, what am I willing to trade to get it? Because it's different when you're consciously in a season of hustle and grind, when you're choosing it. Because you know that, okay, during this season, what's required of me to get to the thing that my heart wants is more hours, is less social time, is less time with my spouse. And when you're consciously doing that, it's fulfilling because you know why you're doing it. I think the trap is when we are unconsciously doing it. When we are sacrificing our health, well-being, and peace for the thing that we think is gonna give us that.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_00

And that's called destination disease. Because you think that once I get here, then I'm gonna feel this way. But then the goalpost is always gonna move. And all of a sudden you've built all this success, but your soul's dead. So it sounds like step one, most important thing, your piece of advice, and I think this is beautiful, is make sure the thing that you're pursuing is the thing that you actually want. Because if not, then you're not gonna have the willpower and the bandwidth, and you're not gonna have the support really truly necessary to get there, because God looks out for us in ways that sometimes we logically can't understand. I think one of the biggest ways that He looks out for us is that if you are trying to pursue something that is not for you, the door is gonna be closed in your face. Right. So instead of looking at things closing in your face as a sign that you are doing something wrong and that there's something wrong with you, ask yourself the question, what is this showing me?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yeah, you have to be intuitive.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And definitely. I mean, you can take a path, and I say, I mean, there's good paths and maybe bad paths, and maybe the bad path that you weren't supposed to go on, like you said, would shut in your face. Um, depending on how you got there, I think you know the consequences of that path will may be different kind of thing. Um, so I just, you know, the universe will give you uh what you want if you do it for a good reason, kind of thing. And I'm gonna go on that. And that's more of like came through soul searching and you know kind of uh and that's a whole, man. Not everybody, they're not just your job, you're not just your professional. Um so you know, again, when you're going after that goal, I feel like, you know, if you're if you're just piling it on, trying to get that crazy amount of revenue or whatever your goal is, and then you know, you're just piling on that work and you're still not happy, I mean, you're not achieving anything with your personal life, right? So that's you're gonna have everything you you think you wanted, but then you'll probably die of a heart attack or something like that after you get it, you know. And feel like that people you just gotta enjoy the ride. If you're not, then then you're probably going the wrong direction.

Services Offered And Where To Find

SPEAKER_00

That's powerful, man. Well, listen, Ryan, how can people listing support you? Uh plug your business, plug your website, tell us a little bit about what you do so people who want their pest control needs to be taken care of let us know.

SPEAKER_02

So, Victory Pest Management were established in 2017. Uh, we take care of pests, termites, uh, mosquitoes, uh, rodents, of course, uh, other services we offer insulation, so we can do crawl space vapor barriers, moisture control, uh, fungal treatments, insulation uh if you're crawl and attic. And we even do gutter cleaning. Um, we have great quarterly services, monthly mosquito services. Everything's kicking off uh you know for spring right now. Uh, you can visit us at victorypm.com and check us out. We have great Google reviews and we'd love, you know, love to help you out.

SPEAKER_00

Brian, thank you so much, man, for being a guest.