#14: How to Win Without Losing Yourself (Ft. Mark Deutsch) Artwork

Whole Man

This podcast is for high-performing adults who have achieved external success but still feel burned out, disconnected, or unfulfilled. Many grew up in survival mode, built a life that looks good on the outside, and now feel like they’re only living half of it. This podcast is me figuring out how to become whole in real time and taking you with me.

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Whole Man

#14: How to Win Without Losing Yourself (Ft. Mark Deutsch)

April 21, 2026 • Brennan Hilleary • Season 1 • Episode 14

0:00 | 58:48

How do you pursue professional success without losing your personal life in the process?

In this episode, I sit down with @MarkDeutsch⁩ a longtime entrepreneur and community leader, to unpack the real cost of ambition. Mark shares how he moved from sales into business ownership, why he chose risk over comfort, and how he learned to step back before work damaged his marriage and family life.

You will hear how he sets clear limits, when he chooses stability over passion, and how he defines success at different stages of life. This is a grounded look at building a career without losing control of your life.

Key Takeaways:

• Set clear goals with deadlines. If you miss them, adjust fast
• Know when to quit. Staying too long can hurt your family and health
• Separate income needs from ego. Stability matters during high-risk seasons
• Pay attention when work stress shows up at home
• Define what matters early. Revisit it as your life changes
• Flexibility becomes more valuable than salary over time

About Mark:

Mark Deutsch is a serial entrepreneur and community leader based in Richmond. He has built multiple businesses, worked in sales and executive roles, and now mentors others while staying active in his community.

Website: markdeutsch.com

If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to the channel, leave a review, and share it with someone who is building a career and needs better balance.

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Welcome And Why Mark Matters

SPEAKER_06 0:00

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Whole Man. Today I have an awesome guest. And you know when you meet those people and you can feel that there's a certain energy of authenticity when you walk in the room. Well, that's exactly how I felt when I met Mark. So me and Mark met at a BI meeting. And ever since I met Mark, I just knew that he had an amazing story. And the more that I learn about him, the more that I realize that that's true. And so I'm really honored for you to be a guest today. So this is Mark Deutsch. And Mark is a serial entrepreneur, a community activist, somebody who is, I would say, really well known in the Richmond community and who somebody who's has such a diverse skill set, not only in entrepreneurship and business, but also just, I feel like you've experienced a lot of life and uh you've gone through the phases of, in a way, I view you as a mentor because you've gone through the phases of focusing a lot on external accomplishment and then maybe in some way crashing or burning with that, and then realizing how to find emotional fulfillment. And so I'm just really excited to talk more with you. And I want to start by saying, I guess I want to start with the question whenever you first started to pursue entrepreneurship, what do you feel was the fuel for that success? Where was your headspace when you first started? And then I guess what was your perspective of the fuel you're using? And then how that did that evolve over time?

The Money Drive Behind Entrepreneurship

SPEAKER_01 1:21

That is a great question. And thanks a lot for having me, by the way, Brendan. I really appreciate it. And I agree, I think when I first met you, I kind of felt the same kindred spirit, you know, type of vibe, I think, with which was great because I knew you were you were a man on a mission and and fulfilling and doing what you say you're gonna do, which is fantastic. So thank you for that and thank you for the opportunity to join you today. Uh and I think for me, you know, I I started my entrepreneurial career pretty early on, I think. And and I started in sales and medical sales out of college. And I think through that process, I discovered I really like to make more money for myself than I do for other people. And as a salesperson, you're often driven by commission and having a quota always hanging in front of you that you're shooting for. But I also felt that, man, I'm making an awful lot of money. I'm selling millions of dollars worth of business for this company and I'm getting a chunk of it, which was fair. But I always felt that if I was an entrepreneur, I could have more of what I'm really earning and more of what I feel I'm really worth. I think. So that's what started me down that path about five years into my sales career. I think.

SPEAKER_06 2:20

I love it. And and for you, when you first started your sales career and and you started thinking about entrepreneurship, do you have family or influences around you that were entrepreneurs that helped push you towards that direction? Or would you consider yourself more of the black sheep, the person who created that in your in your bloodline, I would say?

SPEAKER_01 2:38

Uh yeah, good, good question. You know, I think it it's a it's a combination, I guess, really. Because I think my my family, my parents emigrated here, so I'm first generation American. They came here from from Germany. And back in those days and in the early 1950s and before that, most people were entrepreneurs. So very few people that were farmers. My my dad's dad was the town butcher for the town they lived in. My mom's family were all farmers, so they were entrepreneurs in that respect. So I think there was some genetic component to it, for sure. I think it was kind of built into me. But my parents and my immediate family, except for my dad, worked for someone else. My mom was uh a secretary for Walt Disney World. I grew up in Orlando, so she was a secretary Disney for most of her career, worked in retail and other things. Uh my sisters all worked for somebody else in their careers, and my dad was a printer, uh, had his own small print shop, so worked for himself, but he was really just a one-man shop, never wanted to grow anything uh significant and didn't want me to get into the business. He felt that I was the first kid in my family line male to go to college and graduate from college. So get a good education and don't run a print shop or get into the printing business because it's a at that time was a very kind of dirty business, very loud, people got injured. So he was an entrepreneur but encouraged me to go get a job for a big company, and that's what he thought was the right thing to do. Get educated, go work for someone else for your whole career and retire after 20 years.

SPEAKER_06 4:02

That's so interesting. And you said that after college is when you decide to go into sales roles, and then after that is when you decide to go into entrepreneurship. Right. I'm curious that do you feel like you would have started your entrepreneurship journey early, earlier, or maybe even not have gone to college at all if you didn't wouldn't have had that influence from your father to not pursue entrepreneurship?

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Yeah, that you know, it it's it's always a uh an interesting question when young people that are high school or thinking about college ask you that question because I often steer them to you know, think hard about it. Like call college is great. You you learn to learn at college, but it it's not nearly as valuable, I think, as a lot of people hold it up to be. I think it is important to get an education, whatever that may be, but to really understand what your skills and gifts are early on, I think is important. And uh so I'm I'm not sure. You know, I really I think I could have I've started my first business when like many young people, I think when I was in, I don't know, seventh or eighth grade, I think cut cutting grass for people in a neighborhood and then starting to hire other kids in a neighborhood to cut grass to start to leverage myself a little bit. And I always had little little side hustles, they would be called now, I guess, going on. So I think I I enjoyed that. So I could have easily just gone right into the business world. For for me, I think it was pressure of mostly my my dad more than anybody else to say, you know, hey, to to make me feel better, go get a get an education, get a real job instead of working for yourself, because it's a tough tough hustle to make ends meet, and you're much better off going to work for someone else. Then I also joined the Navy out of high school uh to really help me pay for my education because I had to fund myself through college. And so I joined the military to do that, and that was also aggressively. Uh my dad was not an advocate, he was uh he was drafted into the military uh during a Korean conflict, and so he was not a fan of the U.S. military. He felt it was safer for me to stay out of the military, but I had to do it in order to pay for college. But that also taught me a lot of independence, a lot of discipline, and a lot of great skills. I could have easily seen myself skipping college and going right into owning my own business, but I had a different path.

Family Roots College And The Navy

SPEAKER_06 6:11

That's so interesting because you hear a lot of times around being pressured by parents to push you to do certain things, especially when it comes to entrepreneurs with the people that I help and I resonate with a lot. It's always typically there's a set of parents that push people to really high standards, and that becomes the driving force is I want to make my parents proud. I want them to feel, I want to feel like they love me. And and you don't hear a lot of times it being actually the opposite end of the spectrum, where your dad, it sounds like was trying to protect you from going down a path of suffering and and hardship. And it also sounds like there's just something within you that said, I got to go down this path anyway. I'm curious, in the time where you started entrepreneurship, did that affect your relationship with your father at all when you started to, I guess, go against his wishes when you started your first business, when you joined the military?

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Yeah, it did, it did. He he was very uh, you know, again, uh there were there was a lot of, you know, not encouraging it. I think this often happens actually for for a lot of people too. I think unfortunately, most people's families are not good people to ask questions like that. It's hey, do you think I should start my own business instead of going to college? And most parents are gonna respond in the United States especially. No, you need to go to college. It's a safe bet. Go to college, get an education, your life will be easier if you do that, I think. So my dad, I got a lot of that, I think, from my dad. A little less so from my mom, but to some degree from my mom as well. I think there was a there was a lot of just kind of going along with what my dad believed. My mom just wanted me to be happy, but my dad really wanted me to be successful, but also didn't want to suffer himself. And I think seeing your child going through any suffering causes you suffering, so you want to avoid that.

unknown 7:50

Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

I think so. He was definitely, you know, not encouraging of it. So it affected our relationship. And and he would uh I would always go to him, you know, as as a mentor and somebody I loved and respected. And he was a great father, and my mom's a great mother, so I always went to them for advice, but oftentimes I wouldn't take it. So, you know, duly noted, yeah, I I appreciate appreciate the advice, but I really like being an entrepreneur. So they'd be supportive, even though they would push back, and which is always helpful, I think, forced me to think about some of my assumptions and what I was doing and allowing me to fail and not saying, We told you so, you should have just taken a real job. They they learned, I think, over time that that's just the way it is. This new generation is we're gonna hold multiple jobs and do our own thing and not necessarily just work for that one company for our entire careers.

SPEAKER_06 8:36

Yeah, that's interesting because it sounds like they maybe unintentionally or intentionally on their end taught you how to coach in a way because it's that balance of holding space, giving your perspective, but also letting somebody else come to their own realizations. And I feel like for a lot of parents, I know for my parents, it was really difficult because I grew up in a divorced household. I had completely different personality types. And I feel like for them, it was really difficult to hold the line and the balance of, hey, I'm gonna let you make your own mistakes and scrape your knee. And then also jumping in and really holding firm to certain opinions because it would compromise my safety.

SPEAKER_05 9:13

Right.

Going All In On The First Venture

SPEAKER_06 9:14

So that's that's cool to hear that you came with a good example in that. Uh my question for you is when you first started your entrepreneurship journey, tell me about the moment when you decided to do it full time. Was there ever a time where like a business that you did, because I know you've done a lot of side hustles and gigs in your life. Was there a time where you made a decision to where you're like, this really needs to be my prior primary focus, even if it's more uncertain and risky? And if so, I'd love to hear about the first time you did that.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

So I'm sure there's been a there have been yeah, you're right. It has been multiples, and the circumstances have always been a little different based on kind of where you are, at least where I was in my life. I think the first time really was I was working in medical sales, and again, I started to get this itch of uh the company I was working with had been acquired by our biggest competitor. We were bigger than them, but they were the acquirer, oddly enough. But so I was gonna be the only person on the team of a dozen people coming from my company, and I just didn't like those guys really. My competitors was kind of trained not to like my competitor at that point in the sales situation.

SPEAKER_08 10:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

So I decided to leave. And one of my former uh, again, working in healthcare, it was telemedicine, the head of my nursing department. Uh, she was starting a consulting firm with another guy who was selling a home care company. So I helped them to sell a home care company, position it for sale, and that they asked me to join them in this venture. So I felt pretty secure. So I didn't, I didn't, I went directly from you know, full-time compensation, full-time salary benefits, commission, bonus structure over to 100% commission as an owner of the company. Uh so I was a third owner in that company out of the gate. So I didn't really transition in that case. And at the same time, I was I was single, you know, wasn't married, I was dating at the time, so I could take that kind of risk, I think.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

Uh in other situations, it's not been as clear-cut when I wanted to transition into entrepreneurship in and out of, I typically would have larger clients I'd work for, and then they'd ask me to come in in-house as a full-time employee. So I would join them from that standpoint. I see. And then sometimes I would say, I'm not, you know, I've kind of done what I want to do. I'm I don't like the politics of this company, so I'm ready to move out and do my own thing. But sometimes I had to think about, man, we're just starting a starting a family. So I got young children to be responsible for. So I couldn't take that risk necessarily if there was not going to be any income, in which case, today I would probably, you know, stay working for someone while I did things on the side to build up revenue to the point where I can replace my income and not take that kind of risk. Because one thing my wife and I agreed on very early on is never to put our house at risk. So I could borrow against credit cards and things like that, but we would never, and I agreed early on, yeah, I'm not going to put my house at risk, no matter what the venture was.

SPEAKER_06 11:48

I love it. So you it sounds like it sounds like you just had a a very strong sense of, and tell me if I'm wrong here, it sounds like you just had a strong sense of self at a really young age, is what I'm hearing. Like you you've really locked in on your values pretty early on, where I feel like a lot of entrepreneurs and business owners, I know this this was true for me, I was almost using business and entrepreneurship as a way to find myself, which which I wasn't conscious of, but I was using it as a way to try to validate my worth or validate my worthiness. And for me, that's because I came from a background where I wasn't really unconditionally loved or supported. And so I feel like for me, it took me crashing and burning to start really being forced to be introspective and figure out these are my values instead of the shoulds and the survival values that I learned. These are my actual values. So I'm just curious for you, have you always had that sense of who you are at a deep inner knowing level? Or do you feel like that came later on after a series of I guess hard circumstances or circumstances in general?

SPEAKER_01 12:57

Uh I do feel like I had the the so part of my background in the story that's not me directly, was that my my parents were German, but they were in concentration camps in Germany, what's now Yugoslavia, actually. So there were German villages in Yugoslavia after World War II ended. The Russians came through and cleared out the Germans, and any Germans that were left became part of these work camps. So they went through uh similar situations to what you would think about in a in a concentration camp and a work camp, but it was the Germans rebuilding the damage that the Germans had done in World War II. And so I was that was kind of ingrained in me as a young child, real quickly, that hey, our family had this experience in our background, so survival is job one. You know, you do anything to survive. We lost family members in the camps, and it was a horrible scenario, not not nearly what what the Jewish people went through by any means, quite frankly, but it was still a work camp. It was a concentration camp, and they treated the Germans very poorly that were left, even though they had nothing to do with you know the war and what happened with someone else. So that was really ingrained in me, I think. The fact that I you do anything to survive, you work hard. So at a very young age, I think as a kid, it was ingrained in me to have a survival instinct, to have a good work ethic, uh, to to get yourself educated and work harder than everybody else to be successful, I think. So I I kind of experienced it, I think, as a kid.

SPEAKER_04 14:17

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

I think I felt like I was, I was always the, and I still do this to this day, I'm always the first guy to raise my hand. You know, they say was then who's gonna, who's gonna lead, you know, the team? Who's who's gonna in silly stuff too, Brandon? It was like, who's we're gonna, we're reading out loud in class. And the whole class would be silent as kindergartners. I'll be like, I got it. I'm done. I love doing it. And it wasn't to be the center of attention. I was like, I'm gonna step up. No one else is willing to lead. I'm gonna step up and lead. And that transition through playing sports, I played competitive soccer and tennis as a kid. I was always happy to raise my hand and lead, start drills, end drills, uh, demonstrate drills, be the captain of the team, and I just enjoyed that leadership component, I think. So I was to me, it was before I got into my entrepreneurial career. I think it led into that nicely. But between all the instincts I was raised on and then the things I just were ingrained in me as a young person, I think by the time I got to the working world, you know, my my nickname in college was Big Daddy. Because, you know, everyone was I was always the most mature guy in the room and always a guy who would keep everyone straight and keep everyone on track. I loved to have a good time, but I was always a guy that made clear I was in charge and responsible for everybody. I I've been arrested, man, I think at least 12, 15 times, I think. Because in my fraternity days, it was kind of a game. You'd have a party and it would get too loud. Somebody would call the police of our neighbors and they'd say, Who's in charge? And they'd say that guy. And so I would I've been arrested many times. Wow. The police thought that they would quiet down if they actually hauled the president of the fraternity away or the guy in charge. And it wasn't the case. They just said, We'll come get you in a few hours after we partied. After we partied a little bit, we'll come bill you out Deutsch and pull you out, which was funny. But I've always had that kind of built into me, I think, at a young age, as I reflect on it.

Leadership Instincts And The Chip

SPEAKER_06 15:57

That's interesting. Do you feel like there's been a time in your life where you've had to go back in and rewire some of that in a way? Do you feel like that's because it sounds like that's two-sided with which most things are, I think. It's it there's a strength to it and there's a limitation to it. And my curiosity is when was the first time that you can remember where that mindset of I'm gonna go first, I'm gonna be the one in charge, essentially being the person that everybody else confides in and comes to didn't serve you? And what did you do about that?

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Yeah, I think I really think when uh when I got into the working world, I think when I worked for another company and and I had, and that this has always been uh a challenge for me, I think, frankly. I kind of acknowledge that it's hard for me, unless I can work in a company that really respects entrepreneurship and other opinions about how to do things, I don't do very well. So probably when I got into the working world and had senior executives and people I reported to that I just I I didn't respect, they didn't live up to the standards I thought they should, and I had to take a step back and, you know, hey, if I want to, if I want to stay gainfully employed, I I need to take a step back and not immediately come in and say, you know, here's how you should be doing things. And as a you know, young person in their 20s, uh, it was hard for me to kind of sometimes respect people when I I kind of knew they were not doing the right thing or not doing things the right way, but I didn't have enough experience really to speak to that. But early in my career, I think I got corrected a few times, you know, where I'd have to be pulled aside and said, you know, dude, you're not in charge. You know, this is this is a multi-hundred dollar million company. You're just one cog in the machine, and you need to understand that, and you don't have any experience, even though you think you do. But I had a bit of a chip on my shoulder, I think, because of that experience.

SPEAKER_06 17:38

Sure. Yeah, it sounds like that. That was I I can relate to that very much. So it's funny because when I joined the Marine Corps, I was the last person to give in to authority. And I think I had all of this anger from my childhood because I always was the kid who was bullied, the black sheep, the person who everybody was telling me how I couldn't do something. Doctors told me you can never work out again, parents told me I couldn't join the military. So this anger built up of I'm sick of people telling me I can't do something. And I feel like that chip on your shoulder is such a powerful, effective tool to get through a certain season. But then if you're not careful, it can completely destroy you from the inside out. And I'm curious with your experience with that, because I don't know if we've ever really talked about if you had a what's a good way to put this moment of implosion in your life to where maybe you realized that the fuel that you were using that was driving you was burning you out or was putting you down the wrong path or was in a way not serving you.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

Yeah, I I think uh Yeah, that that's a a relatively deep question to think about, Brennan. It's uh I think for me it was it was m there were a couple of times when I was relatively new in my marriage and we were starting to have challenges because I wanted to stick with being an entrepreneur, and sometimes the revenue cycle is rough. My wife has been fantastic. She's been at VCU, we're talking about earlier about staying at the same place. She's been at VCU as a pharmacist her entire career. So same place, but different departments within that organization. So she's always been the stable rock in terms of we always had healthcare benefits, a steady income. So I could take some risks, and she's always been super supportive of me taking those risks throughout my career. But sometimes it's like, you know, hey, you gotta, you know, I'd like to we want she'd like to stay home a little bit after we have our kids to be with our kids, which we both supported, but that means I had to step up the income. So I'd go to work full-time for someone else in those scenarios. And sometimes it just, I I did not enjoy it, I think. And it it just was was uh psychologically was not something I enjoyed doing, and it would affect our personal relationship. So I think I kind of hit that wall sometimes when I was, you know, I know I gotta do this, it's the right thing, but that that that lack of enjoyment in my business life is coming into my personal life and affecting my marriage to the point where we've got to get some counseling and got to get things straight and decide what's really important to us. So I've had to make that decision a couple times, I think, in my career where things are and I I find a lot of a lot of entrepreneurs don't do this, quite frankly, when they you know you gotta know when to quit. There's nothing wrong with quitting, in my opinion. But you gotta know when to do it. And sometimes if you're just you gotta provide for your family, uh you gotta put food on the table, you gotta make sure your kids have access to healthcare, you gotta know at what point to say, you know what, I gave this at my best, and it's time to go find a job somewhere else or another source of income and reset, and maybe I'll get back to being an entrepreneur. But so many people I think their marriages and relationships fail in other ways, or they get, you know, they have other challenges in their life as opposed to knowing when to stop. So for me, it was really that. I think it was the letting my business unhappiness spill over into my my marriage, into my personal life, and then I had to determine what's really important to me, which is my relationship.

Practical Goals Quitting And Fulfillment

SPEAKER_06 20:50

That's so interesting. That's such a cool perspective because and I feel like I haven't talked to a lot of people about this. It's what happens when the thing that you love most is not working, and you have to choose between the thing that you love most but isn't as stable, versus the thing that you don't love that much but would provide more stability. So the first time that that happened, I'm curious how did you deal with the tug and pull? And this is somebody that it could very well happen to. I'm not predicting that I don't have a family yet, but I want to. And I've been in entrepreneurship full-time now for almost two years, and I'm at a point where I have this knowing in my heart in a way that I won't have to go back to a full-time job in some way, but it it definitely fear takes over sometimes when it comes to being a business owner, especially when there's you have these identity upgrades you go through. There's these periods of pause, there's all this for me, a lot of divine cosmic things that have been happening as I've been developing as a business owner that don't make logical sense. And it makes you pause and question. Man, am I really doing the right thing? Am I being stupid? Am I being illogical? So, how did you discern the difference between following your heart, which is I'm gonna chase my bliss, I'm gonna do the thing that I know in my heart I'm meant to do while also facing the practical reality of your situation.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

Right. Yeah, I I I think uh without without stereotyping too much, with my German upbringing, yeah, like like practical was very important to me. So I was always very practical about how I approached it and very logical. If anything, I'm I'm one of the things I work on every day is to to let be more emotional, I think. But I'm I'm just I I was raised to think that emotions are a weakness by my dad and by the men in my family. And so I've I've kind of carried that through. So I do my best to kind of work through that every day because I think it's important to be emotional. But I was taught to be practical, not emotional about it, and say, look, my my goal is X, and and whether I was married or not, it was my goal is gonna be this. If I'm not achieving this goal by this date, there's a terminal date to it. I'm not, I'm not gonna, I'm just again, I it's to me it it's a lot of people think that giving up is a bad thing, and it's not. Quitting in some cases makes complete sense. Sure. As opposed to continuing on a path and doing the famous statement, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different results in sanity.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

So I don't want to do that. So I've always approached it very practically and said just so I'm gonna set a goal for this. If I achieve that, don't. If I'm if I'm close, I'll have to make a decision point. But typically it was a pretty hard line for me to say I'm gonna shoot for these goals and I'm serious about those goals and stretch goals. And if I don't achieve those in this time period, then I'm gonna make an adjustment. And that was that to me has always been a plan I've had in place. So it's made it a little bit easier in that respect, that it's just kind of a hard line. Some people would say you just got to push through and keep going, and you know, you never know that that next day everything could change. You know, something crazy could happen, and all of a sudden you it completely changes the trajectory of where you're going. But for me, it was kind of logical. And I've treated the businesses that I've had in the past the same way that I've got a certain goal. Once I stop enjoying it and I'm not hitting the goals I want, it's time to exit and let someone else take it on who will enjoy it and make something out of it. I think kind of recycle and reuse in some cases. But I always had very practical goals, and that's how I approach things.

SPEAKER_06 24:17

That's so interesting. Yeah. So for you, it's like the you had the logical side, you had to structure to, hey, I'm going to give myself the opportunity to experiment to get to a certain point. And then my question for you is this. So, what happens if even in the pursuit of hitting the goal that you achieve, you notice that your enjoyment starts to dwindle? Because I feel like with that logical and structural perspective, I feel like it's really powerful. But also if we've been taught to suppress that uh inner feminine in a way that that fulfillment, that joy, that creativity, those emotions, it can also sometimes lead to, I overuse the word burnout, burnout, lack of fulfillment. Was that ever a factor for you when it came to pivoting to something different? Or was it purely, I didn't hit this goal, so I'm gonna change and I'm gonna pivot?

SPEAKER_01 25:04

Yeah, I I think it was uh that that was a much harder decision. Yes, that has happened several times. I think where I've had that exact scenario where, you know, I'm I'm achieving the goals, overachieving the goals, but I'm just not waking up, fired up in the morning. Typically, it was when I worked for someone else. And I would I was, again, been in sales and marketing, executive roles all my career. And I was I was achieving the goals, I was hitting my numbers, but I just was not fired up about it and just wasn't excited about it. So those those oftentimes I I kept myself in situations where I should have. That is a much harder decision where the goals really are different. If they're more emotional type of goals, I'm just not as responsive to those historically. It will take me longer to figure out. And mostly, you know, I've been married 30 years this year, which is great. So I've handled my wife Henley and I have been through a lot, and she was oftentimes the one that would kind of nudge me and saying, you know, you're really, you know, you're you're it's affecting our personal relationship and your relationship with your kids. We're achieving the goals and financially we're achieving things and we're able to do the stuff we want to do, but you know, you just don't seem very happy about it. You know, how are things going? And she would often check in with me. That's usually when I would say, you know, really that's very true. Yeah, I really am not enjoying what I'm doing, but you know, we're making the money and that's what it's all about. So I I don't want to make a change. And then oftentimes she'd be the one to say, maybe it's time to you know think about something else. Would still want something stable and not just support jumping into something where we're gonna have to suffer as a result of that. But sure, which is overcorrecting, which is overcorrecting, yeah, exactly right. So I would do my best not to overcorrect. But I have to say, yeah, when it was more of a where you're hitting your goals but still not feeling fulfilled and not really enjoying it and clearly burning out, that it's harder to, you know, stop that, which I think happens to a lot of people that work for someone else and really feel like I wish I could own my own business and I always wanted to do this, but it's hard to walk away from, you know, in many cases, unfortunately, healthcare and benefits and the steady income. The golden handcuffs. Yeah, exactly right. That's hard to walk away from for a lot of people.

Fear Golden Handcuffs And The AI Shift

SPEAKER_06 27:04

Why do you think it's so hard? Do you feel like it's more so an external difficulty? Do you feel like it's hard because it requires us to it may require things in our outer world to change, like our relationship dynamics to change the known cycles, even if they're miserable to change, or do you feel like it's the internal side that makes it so difficult to change?

SPEAKER_01 27:26

I think it's I think it's both. I think it's largely fear. I mean, fear just drives a lot of people to do things. And I think there's a fear of the unknown. Fortunately, I I'm I'm I'm very excited and bullish on the current state and the future due to AI and technology. I think we're moving into a situation where more people than not are going to be entrepreneurs and own their own businesses, and technology is gonna make that easier than ever to do that. So I think a lot of people are gonna just head by nature as technology can do more jobs and do more tasks for people, people are gonna explore and have the opportunity to do things that are more entrepreneurial. But I think there's been a lot of fear of, and with that, I think it's gonna have to come some societal changes. So there's again, fear of unfortunately, so many people, myself included over time, is you're just working for things like healthcare benefits. You know, you stay employed in an unhappy situation because you've got the steady income, the golden handcuffs, you've got healthcare benefits, things feel good at home, and everyone's happy because of that. You're able to go on vacation once a year and do the basic stuff. You can own your own house, and you know, that's supposed to be the American dream. But I think a lot of people are not fulfilled doing that. But it's scary to make that transition because there's then becomes a whole bunch of what ifs. You know, well, what if this is not successful? What if we're not able? We we allocate a certain amount of money, we're pulling out of our savings to help fuel this venture. And what if it doesn't succeed? Now we are out of all that money, and and most people don't want you to do that. I mean, 90% of the people I've interacted with in my life push you to the safe choice, perceptually being you go to work for a big company, get that steady income. And I've over time looked at that as being a hell of a lot more risky, I think, than working for myself. I'm I'm more responsible for my own success and my own destiny rather than just being a line item on a spreadsheet. That's the way I've looked at it. So I've always struggled with that perception from people, but I do think fear drives a lot of people to stay away from entrepreneurship at the same time. I think that's going to shift dramatically here in the next five to 10 years.

SPEAKER_06 29:25

Agreed. Yeah, that's that's a great perspective. And I'm curious because you told me a lot about that push and pull in the past. So it sounds like you've always had this even balance of entrepreneurship and then working for somebody else and entrepreneurship and working for somebody else. Where are you at now with your headspace on that? Are you living your life in accordance with the balance of that fulfillment and success? Is there is there one end of the spectrum you would like to be stronger than the other end? I'm just curious about what you're currently experiencing and feeling like right now.

Caregiving Retirement Planning And Flexibility

SPEAKER_01 29:58

It's a it's a funny time right now, actually, I think. Um I'm 57 years old, so I'm at this point where my wife went part-time, starting at the beginning of last year, which is part of our goals. And on on my I like being an entrepreneur, but I'm I'm also what happened in April of last year. My mom started to develop dementia. She lives in Florida, so I'm her primary caregiver from afar. I've got two wonderful sisters who live in Florida. Uh, so we're all three caring for her, but I'm the point person for a lot of things. And so that changed my dynamic as well. So I wanted to take a step back from working too hard to spend time taking care of my mom and dealing with that situation. Uh, so that's new, I think, in my life. So that's caused me to balance things a little differently, I would say. So now I'm also at a point where we've been blessed that I've I've had a chance to put enough money away in the bank. So we're we're in great shape for retirement. It's this gap now between kind of getting to a point where we can start to take some money out from our savings that we've saved hard over the years, and now we can start really enjoying it. I think so. I'm at this interesting point where I want to continue to work to make money, but I also like working for myself to have the flexibility to take care of my mom and other things. So I can, I've got to run down to Florida, I can jump on a plane and do that. If I was working for someone else, I think that would be hard to do.

SPEAKER_08 31:18

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

At the same time, I'm starting to get pulled again where I'm doing fractional work for several different companies that are starting to ask me to have more time and be more full-time with them, which has happened to me several times in my career, as I said earlier, where I'm working fractionally for someone, I enjoy that. It's something different every day. You know, I've got five different business cards depending on who I'm talking to. And when I pick up the phone, I never know who it's going to be about. I love that challenge every day. But now I'm starting to get pulled into this balance of, well, things have stabilized a bit with my mom. Uh, we'd like to travel a little more, my wife and I. So I need flexibility to do that. But clients are coming to me saying, hey, we'd love to get more of your time. Would you be interested in more of a full-time role, you know, as we grow and start to expand companies? So I'm now starting to feel that pull again a little bit to make that decision.

SPEAKER_06 32:05

Interesting. How do you feel like because that's a pattern I've noticed, you know, based on what you've said, it's a pattern of it's um out maybe naming the pattern would be helpful because I'm curious about like what the actual pattern is. Is it do you feel as soon as you start? Because what I'm hearing is when when more commitment is required, it's like this this tug and pull of, man, I'm not sure if I really want to do if it's worth the time that I'm gonna be putting in. And then what happens after that typically when you feel that push and pull? Is it, okay, um, I'm gonna go do something else. So it's like they're asking for more time. So I'm gonna just completely kind of separate from this company and go to a different venture, or is it, I'm just gonna keep working with them, say no and keep working with them with the current time that I have, and then do something over here?

SPEAKER_01 32:58

Uh it's really been it's been situational. I think it's based on where I am in life, frankly. So I think the the rules to me have changed a little bit based on when my kids might have two boys are 24 and 21. So one's out of college and one's in his third year of college, but they're fully funded and fully paid for, which is great.

SPEAKER_04 33:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

So, but that that was kind of we built up towards that. We had certain goals. We wanted to put X number of dollars in the bank. We wanted to have the kids' college paid for, we wanted to get a second home on the river. So we've achieved all those goals, which is great. So now I'm at a different point. I'm like, I can really for for me, I think it's more uh, and my my my retirement plan is to never retire. I'm also in this mindset where my my wife had a kind of a heart. She wants to retire, be done with work, and just be retired and learn other things. She's taking up watercolor, she's doing knitting and learning other skills, taking yoga back up. She wants to do those types of things. Sure. That's not for me. I like to play competitive tennis. I'll probably stay competitive because you can play that until you drop dead, which is great.

SPEAKER_06 33:55

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 33:55

But I really like to work and I'd love to be able to speak and coach and train and other things that I can do from anywhere in the world. So that's kind of my long path to retirement, is never to really truly retire. I always want to be learning something and ideally sharing that knowledge with anybody who's willing to listen or interested in having some of that knowledge. So I think the the calculation for me is changing a little bit. Sure. That's making it a little harder to say, you know, it's not as clear-cut as it was.

SPEAKER_06 34:19

Let's logical, it sounds like.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

Yeah, like I'm up, it was clear as, you know, hey, I'm making I'm making this in the entrepreneurial career right now. It's kind of up and down, or I just sold a company and so we've got a little bit of money in the bank, but now I get to decide what I want to do. Do I want to go work full-time for someone else? And it, as I said many times, right, it's hard to say no to that high salary and that steady income. But now I'm like, I can say no to that. That's not what's most important to me. What's most important to me is flexibility, it's quality of life, it's doing things that are going to add to my skill set that I can now use when I when I stop working full time, but I'm not fully retired. So for me, it's now the last few years, it's been looking more like what it's kind of missing. What do I want to learn? That's again also why the current environment is really cool because there's so much neat stuff to learn. Yeah. I just came from here from a meeting at a group out in the West End on AI. It's using AI. I love just being with younger, smarter people than me and learning from them and absorbing that. Like I'm always learning something. I think I don't want to be one of those guys that just plays tennis all the time, for example. I want to always be learning new things and I love mentoring entrepreneurs and working with other businesses. There's a a great client I had here in town. His name was Bob Klein. And Bob Klein was starting new businesses at like 93 years old. It was, it was like that's a guy I want to be like. My my father loved, respected my father 100%, but he couldn't wait to retire. Like he couldn't wait to hit you know 65, get Medicare, and work is done. He just wanted to hang out in the tennis court all day, and that was his life. That was cool.

SPEAKER_04 35:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

But for me, I was like, Bob, that's my boy. He was, man, he was just, it was amazing. He was driving himself, going to meetings. He was building new, new buildings down in Petersburg. He was starting new companies here in Richmond. He'd been a very successful entrepreneur. And that just was very seems very fulfilling to me because that's what I've always done, my career. I can't see myself not doing anything, but I do want to have the flexibility to invest time with my my wife and spend time traveling. And if we're blessed to have grandchildren and things like that, to spend time doing that. But I always want to keep my mind sharp and keep busy.

Never Retiring Learning Mentoring And Service

SPEAKER_06 36:24

Yeah, yeah. It's such a um such a polarity, it sounds like, especially when you have the entrepreneurial spirit that you definitely do, and the military spirit, whatever you want to call it, it's the unemployable soul. Maybe we can make the archetype that it's uh it sounds like it's such a a push-pull with that kind of stuff. With the season that you're in right now, I'm curious what do you feel is required of you that maybe hasn't been required before that would really help set you on the path of balancing that emotional fulfillment along with the professional impact that you want to make.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

For me, now I think this particular season is a great way to put it. I think it's more determining what's most important to me, which now I think is my relationship with my wife. You know, 100%, I think for me is that we we we still have one kid in college, like I said, but he's he's on a good path. Our oldest is on a good path. Uh as a parent, you always worry about your kids. I think that's just the way it is. So we'll always have that in the back of our minds. But Henlin and I want to start to really enjoy ourselves. And there's this time period, I think, where I'm also an advocate of like we need to enjoy things now because before you know it, you'll be 65, 75, 80 years old, and you can't travel. Who knows what science will be? Maybe I'll have some type of cool exoskeleton or something, and I'll be able to climb mountains when I'm 90 years old. But I think that's that's unlikely. So we need to enjoy things now. I think there's like this 20-year window that we've got to really enjoy ourselves and our relationship differently. So to me, that's really my my A1 priority is to focus on my relationship with my wife, make sure that that I'm I have my point of view and the things I want to do, but I don't want that to get in the way of our relationship and want to do more of the things that my wife, as I said earlier, has made a lot of sacrifices of types allowing me to be more of an entrepreneur and do things and take risks because we had her stability throughout my entire career.

SPEAKER_06 38:21

Do you feel that there's things that are gonna make that difficult as of right now? Because I I feel that when I think about a lot of what I've struggled with, it's been this programming that I adopted at some point. Maybe it was from the military, maybe it was from my parents, it was maybe it was from society, that I can't really have both or I don't deserve both in a way, where part of me wants to enjoy that time and part of me wants to be okay with just being fully present and just focusing primarily on family, but then there's also this part of me that's like you have a big impact that you need to pay attention to. It's like it's like family purpose versus business purpose. And so I'm curious because of how much you've achieved in your life and how active you've been in service to other people, do you expect or are you currently experiencing I guess friction when it comes to shifting and making the family that much of a priority? Because I feel like there's a lot of shame maybe around that, that that people have a hard time. If there is like this friction of I want to make my it's nice to say I want to make my family a first priority, but when you come from a background where you've achieved and achieved and achieved, sometimes that's easier said than done. So I'm just I'm just curious.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

Yeah, I've I've never you know, I've never really felt that as friction, I would say. I I feel like I've always done a good job of balancing because I'm I still 100% plan to stay very active in in Rotary, which I've been in for 20 years, and I love to give back to my community and here locally as well as overseas and around the world. So I love that aspect of what I do. But so I don't see it as friction as much as you know making sure I'm juggling things properly and balancing things. I think and and again, fortunately, that's that that's I've always been that way. So my my wife kind of knew what she was getting into when we got married because I was that when we dated, I was honest, you know, with myself. I enjoy having lots of things and giving back and serving. It was in the military, so that's kind of built into me, I think. So I felt less friction, I think, about those things because I've been very fortunate to have an understanding partner in my life. And I think I've done a good job of being a good dad and respecting that balance as well with my kids. It was very difficult on everybody involved, but I was definitely the type of dad that I was doing national sales for companies. So I was always traveling. I was a road warrior, but I I very rarely, if ever, missed any of my kids', you know, key things. I coach coached their teams and was really engaged, but I took a beating, you know, doing that, driving through the middle of the night and flying overnight just to get to my kids' games and to get to their plays and to be present for their activities and birthdays. But I I always prioritize that. So I think it's been a continuation of that. So I don't feel as much friction. Sure. I think as much as making sure that I'm doing a good job balancing things, but you know, it it's easy to drop those balls when you're juggling a lot.

SPEAKER_06 41:21

Yeah, and that's cool to hear that you you never lost sight of that because I feel like the hustle and grind becomes destructive when you trade the thing that's most important with the thing that you think will give you what's most important. And I I think that it's interesting because a lot of the people that I help and the path that I was going down was work and purpose and the business stuff, professional success was a way to avoid avoid things within you that felt you deserved to have a good family life. Maybe the things within you that there's parts of your personal life that you know aren't serving you or aren't a reflection of what you want. But hey, if you make the excuse you you need to work 12 hours a day, or if you're on the road 24-7, then it's really easy to ignore that. So it's cool to hear from somebody who that wasn't the fuel. It was the fuel was I'm gonna grind and hustle because I know what my priority is. So it sounds like your family has always been your center. And then the things that you've done with your businesses has been revolving around that center, which is probably, correct me if I'm wrong, why you never hit true burnout or you never had that like full collapse moment because you've you've kind of been, I call it spiritually threading the needle because of having that center of gravity. But I feel like without that center of gravity, you'll just go on one extreme to the other extreme and wonder why you're you're lost on the other side of the world.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

I I think that's a good way to put it, Brennan, because I've I've never I never I've I've felt like I've been to the uh never on the edge of the abyss, but like you know, coming towards it.

SPEAKER_04 42:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:59

And I would sense that a kind of gravitational pull of, man, I'm gonna be in the pit of despair here before I know it if I'm not careful. So I better pull back. And and part of that I think comes from our previous discussion about when I've had certain goals and objectives, and if I'm not hitting these gates, then I'm gonna make a decision at that point. I've been pretty disciplined about that. So I think that has been very helpful. That's I think, you know, and and again, I I think I've had a very understanding wife and family and kids who were especially now. I think it's it's it's awesome when when you have kids and they start to get older and start to work, they start to appreciate or look at things differently. That's because my kids have said to me several times now that I'm going to the situation I am with my mom, how patient I am, you know, and dealing with it. When when you've got a a parent with dementia and Alzheimer's, it's been a new experience for me that I had not seen before. And so but I've had to stay steady. I've always prided myself on being like the steady force and steady eddy. I don't get too much too excited, I don't get too down, I just always stay steady, and that's served me well, I think. And my kids. Now appreciate they've commented several times, which is heartwarming when they say, you know, Dad, I really appreciate how you're dealing with you know Oma, and and I don't know if I could do it. I'm like, yeah, do what you gotta do, man. But it it's uh been nice to hear those types of things. So yeah, I think I've been lucky that I haven't really had to go all the way, you know, really go down. I've been pretty close a few times, I think, where where things have gotten pretty rough, but I've always managed to pull myself out and learn from those and say, man, I don't want to do that again. That that was not fun. Yeah, I did not feel good, so I don't want to go down that hole again. And uh and it's it's hard when you see other people do it to do your best to say, man, I know what's coming and I wish I could encourage you. So I do my best to serve other people and help other people before they, you know, not formally coaching like you do, just as a friend to be that friend that says, you know, dude, I want to encourage you 100%, but get out of the way. Get out of the way. You're you're you're putting your family through hell by pursuing your goals. And is that, you know, really the price you want to pay for success? And you might just give that some thought. And so yeah, I haven't I have been fortunate that I have not had to hit rock bottom before I crawled my way out. I've gotten close a few times, but before I, you know, a couple layers up of sediment, I've kind of felt that that was coming and I've pulled myself out of that, which has been great. And I've had a great support system around me.

SPEAKER_06 45:13

Sure, which I think that's the key that a lot of people don't have. And because I feel like the opposite of burnout is connection. And when you have isolated yourself as this, for me, I was very much so the lone wolf high achiever. And so I'm actually actively working on this in my life right now because I'm realizing, huh, like I don't have to slave away to really build this business. I've gotten pretty good at knowing what to prioritize and how to do it in a way that's fulfilling. And because of that, I'm like, this is interesting because I have all this open space and I'm noticing anxiety. I'm noticing not knowing what to do with myself, I'm noticing almost me trying to create problems that don't exist because I've been so used to dealing with issues, and that's addicting. And I and I feel what you're describing is very much so um a Buddhism philosophy principle, which is the middle way.

SPEAKER_05 46:04

Right.

Buddhism Mindfulness And The Middle Way

SPEAKER_06 46:05

It sounds like exactly right. And and I wanted to ask you how much you feel your your faith has helped you with navigating life in that way, of staying onto that even center, spiritually threading the needle, staying in that middle way. Is that something you consistently come back to?

SPEAKER_01 46:20

I do I've I've been practicing Buddhism for about 10 years now. And I I think, yeah, it has. That's what really attracted me to it. It really was seeking ways to reduce stress. I started with mindful meditation and from improving my meditation practice, introduced me to Buddhism. I was raised Roman Catholic and just found that Buddhism I resonated more with that middle way. And yeah, as I thought about it, I said, man, that's that's part of what I said earlier. I've always been the guy who's willing to step up and take charge and just keep things level and always have a level head. And I think that's been part of my Buddhist practice as well, because yeah, the middle way is fantastic. I've always appreciated with. I think it's given me a something to, as you mentioned earlier, I think, Brennan, to name it. You know, to be able to call what is this kind of philosophy that I have. Just, you know, staying, staying steady is is not as attractive as saying really it's part of my part of the Buddhist philosophy that is probably why I identify with it so well, because that is absolutely how I've lived all of my life. When I think about it, I've always done my best to be that steady force, that person that can help look at things objectively and look at things practically, and that's served me well.

SPEAKER_06 47:24

That's powerful. Yeah, it's it's uh it sounds like it's just it's a this is just who I am.

SPEAKER_01 47:29

Right.

Advice For High Achievers And Contact

SPEAKER_06 47:30

And so when you make something a part of your identity like that, it does just seem like second nature. And for somebody like me listening to this, I'm like, man, the amount of inner work and things that I've been doing to really try to get to that inner, like that middle way way of living, it's so interesting how depending on your environment and your upbringing and just what you've experienced, how for some people the thing that is so difficult for you could be like second nature to somebody else. So that's that's really cool because I feel like I guess my other question is what would you say to the high, what piece of advice, what piece of advice would you give the high achiever who is chasing the external success, who in the pursuit of that external success is sacrificing their personal life in a way, sacrificing the relationships that they have, sacrificing their health. What piece of advice would you give that person?

SPEAKER_01 48:24

Man, it it's uh it's it's that that's hard, I think, because it's it's uh it's a common statement, I think, which is you know, really keeping your eye on what what are you really is that really what's most important to you? And really having a hard I I think I find when you when you when you dig a few layers deep in that conversation, you know, Brandon, what's most important to you? And say, no, really, what's most important to you? You know, you do that a handful of times, you really start to get to by about the fifth answer, I think you really start to dig down into what's truly important to you. I think a lot of people lose sight of that. But that's my best advice tends to be to really be honest with yourself and do your best to determine what's what's most important to you. And, you know, when you and again, this is not out of the ordinary, but hey, when you when you leave this earth, you know, what do you want people to say about you? You want to say, hey, this is a great businessman, or was this a great family man? Was it a great person that gave back to their community? What do you really want people to say about you when you pass away? Because that could be tomorrow if you're not careful. And is what you're doing right now gonna be you want people to think about you when you pass away? And I think that's a very honest discussion to have with yourself. So it's not you know anything out of the ordinary, I think, but that type of advice, I think, to really understand what's important to you, think hard about it, dig a few layers deep, and make sure you're pursuing things that are gonna make you feel fulfilled. And when you leave this planet, what will other people say about you? And I think that's a hard thing to think about for a lot of people. And it it's you know, again, it's easy to say when when you've been somewhat successful and you've achieved certain things, but I think back to my path along the way, that's a good advice that people would give to me to say, you know, man, you're you know, you're working hard, but you know, how are things with your family? And I I've always I've always uh achieved a look for the philosophy that you're you are the combination of the five people you hang out with the most. And I forget if that was Harvey McKay or who actually said that initially, but I've always liked that philosophy. So I've surrounded myself with really good people over time and a very small group of close friends that were really honest with me. And they always would ask those types of questions, I think. So I do my best to pay that forward a little bit and say, man, are you really, you know, as long as you're feeling fulfilled about it, that's what's important. And if you don't, if you can't do that, if you can't look at that and be honest with yourself and say, man, I'm really, you know, I'm working my tail off, but you know, I'm I'm escaping with alcohol and drugs. My relationship is horrible, my kids hate me. You know, I I work, and when people say I haven't gone on vacation in five years, like that's not good. You know, is that is that really what you want people to think about you and what you how you really want to live your life? Is that really that important to you?

SPEAKER_06 50:53

It's powerful. And even something as simple as that can really I feel like when you give yourself permission to slow down long enough, those things are gonna actually come up. And I think that's the thing that people are avoiding.

SPEAKER_07 51:04

Right.

SPEAKER_06 51:04

Is I know for me, that's why I had to wait till the train hit me to really ask those confrontational questions. And no, that's that's such powerful advice. Well, Mark, how how can people find you? What is your I guess priority pursuit right now in the business world? Where do where do you want people to support you? What lens? What angle?

SPEAKER_01 51:27

You know, and a uh I would say the easiest thing is I'd love for people to check out my website, markdeuts.com. Uh, shoot me an email, mark at markdeuts.com. I I think for me, I get most of my enjoyment out of helping other people. I mean, I I really do enjoy the the rush of like you and I have experienced. You know, hey, I really would like to meet this type of person. Well, I got you. I got a great person. Let me introduce you. And then, like when we started our conversation today before before the the podcast, that you know, you met with so-and-so that I introduced you to. That really makes me feel good. So for me, it's almost less, it served me really well to be less about, you know, here's what I'm looking for, and here's a good referral for me and good business for me as much as you mean, how can I help other people? So I would love if people feel that I can help them in any way based on this conversation, if I can make any connections that'd be helpful for them, reach out to me and I'll be happy to do it.

SPEAKER_06 52:16

Mark, you're a hell of a man. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 52:18

You as well. I appreciate it, Brennan.

SPEAKER_06 52:20

Cool. Thanks. Dealing with issues, and that's addicting. And I and I feel what you're describing is very much so um a Buddhism philosophy principle, which is the middle way.

SPEAKER_05 52:31

Right.

SPEAKER_06 52:31

SPEAKER_01 52:47

I do. I've I've been practicing Buddhism for about 10 years now. And I I think, yeah, it has. That's what really attracted me to it. It really was seeking ways to reduce stress. I started with mindful meditation and from improving my meditation practice, introduced me to Buddhism. I was raised Roman Catholic and just found that Buddhism I resonated more with that middle way. And yeah, as I thought about it, I said, Man, that's that's part of what I said earlier. I've always been the guy who's willing to step up and take charge and just keep things level and always have a level head. And I think that's been part of my Buddhist practice as well, because yeah, the middle way is fantastic. I've always appreciated it with. I think it's given me a something to, as you mentioned earlier, I think, Brennan, to name it. You know, to be able to call what is this kind of philosophy that I have, just you know, staying, staying steady is is not as attractive as saying really it's part of my part of the Buddhist philosophy that is probably why I identify with it so well, because that is absolutely how I've lived all of my life when I think about it. I've always done my best to be that steady force, that person that can help look at things objectively, look at things practically, and that's served me well.

SPEAKER_06 53:50

That's powerful. Yeah, it's it's uh it sounds like it's just it's a this is just who I am.

SPEAKER_01 53:56

Right.

SPEAKER_06 53:56

SPEAKER_01 54:51

Man, it it's uh it's it's that that's hard, I think, because it's it's uh it's a common statement, I think, which is you know, really keeping your eye on what what are you really is that really what's most important to you? And really having a hard I I think I find when you when you when you dig a few layers deep in that conversation, you know, Brandon, what's most important to you and say, no, really, what's most important to you? You know, you do that a handful of times, you really start to get to by about the fifth answer, I think you really start to dig down into what's truly important to you. I think a lot of people lose sight of that. But that's my best advice tends to be to really be honest with yourself and do your best to determine what's most important to you. And, you know, when you and again, this is not out of the ordinary, but hey, when you when you leave this earth, you know, what do you want people to say about you? You want to say, hey, this is a great businessman, or was this a great family man? Was it a great person that gave back to their community? What do you really want people to say about you when you pass away? Because that could be tomorrow if you're not careful. And is what you're doing right now gonna be you want people to think about you when you pass away? And I think that's a very honest discussion to have with yourself. So it's not you know anything out of the ordinary, I think, but that type of advice, I think, to really understand what's important to you, think hard about it, dig a few layers deep, and make sure you're pursuing things that are gonna make you feel fulfilled. And when you leave this planet, what will other people say about you? And I think that's a hard thing to think about for a lot of people. And it it's you know, again, it's easy to say when when you've been somewhat successful and you've achieved certain things, but I think back to my path along the way, that's a good advice that people would give to me to say, you know, man, you're you know, you're working hard, but you know, how are things with your family? And I I've always I've always uh achieved look for the philosophy that you're you are the combination of the five people you hang out with the most. And I forget if that was Harvey McKay or who actually said that initially, but I've always liked that philosophy. So I've surrounded myself with really good people over time and a very small group of close friends that were really honest with me. And they always would ask those types of questions, I think. So I do my best to pay that forward a little bit and say, man, are you really, you know, as long as you're feeling fulfilled about it, that's what's important. And if you don't, if you can't do that, if you can't look at that and be honest with yourself and say, man, I'm really, you know, I'm working my tail off, but you know, I'm I'm escaping with alcohol and drugs. My relationship is horrible, my kids hate me. You know, I I work, and when people say I haven't gone on vacation in five years, like that's not good. You know, is that is that really what you want people to think about you and what you how you really want to live your life? Is that really that important to you?

SPEAKER_06 57:20

It's powerful, and even something as simple as that can really I feel like when you give yourself permission to slow down long enough, those things are gonna naturally come up, and I think that's the thing that people are avoiding.

SPEAKER_07 57:30

Right.

SPEAKER_06 57:31

Is I know for me, that's why I had to wait until the train hit me to really ask those confrontational questions. And no, that's that's such powerful advice. Well, Mark, how how can people find you? What is your I guess priority pursuit right now in the business world? Where do where do you want people to support you? What lens? What angle?

SPEAKER_01 57:54

You know, and a uh I would say the easiest thing is I'd love for people to check out my website, markdeuts.com. Uh shoot me an email, mark at markdeuts.com. I I think for me, I get most of my enjoyment out of helping other people. I mean, I I really do enjoy the the rush of like you and I have experienced. You know, hey, I really would like to meet this type of person. Well, I got you. I got a great person. Let me introduce you. And then, like when we started our conversation today before before the podcast, that you know, you met with so-and-so that introduced you to. That really makes me feel good. So for me, it's almost less, it served me really well to be less about, you know, here's what I'm looking for, and here's a good referral for me and good business for me as much as you mean. How can I help other people? So I would love if people feel that I can help them in any way based on this conversation. If I can make any connections that'd be helpful for them, reach out to me and I'll be happy to do it.

SPEAKER_06 58:42

Mark, you're a hell of a man. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 58:44

You as well. I appreciate it, Brent.

SPEAKER_06 58:46

Cool.

SPEAKER_01 58:47

Thanks.