Episode 22 - Avoiding or Actually Busy?

This week on The Therapist and The Wildcard, we talk about being actually busy vs just avoiding life, making plans and instantly wanting to cancel them, and why adulthood looked so much easier when we were kids. We also get nostalgic about growing up without technology taking over everything and talk honestly about how grief can leave you feeling a little more reckless with life.

The Therapist & The Wildcard is a mental health podcast hosted by The Wildcard, alongside The Therapist, where real conversations meet professional insight—and nothing is off-limits. Together, they dive into therapy, grief, healing, relationships, emotional chaos, and the moments that make you laugh, cry, or ask, “Is this normal?”

Some episodes go deep. Some go sideways. Most do both. The Wildcard brings the unfiltered conversation, lived experience, and humor people are

usually afraid to say out loud, while The Therapist grounds the conversation with clinical knowledge, compassion, and perspective—without killing the vibe.

This podcast isn’t about having it all figured out. It’s about talking through the mess, naming the hard stuff, and finding meaning (and humor) along the way. If you’ve ever laughed through pain, questioned your own reactions, or wanted therapy talk without the therapy voice—welcome. You’re in the right place.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the Therapist in the Wildcard, the show about grief, mental health, and all the messy stuff in between. One of us helps people heal for a living, and the other probably needs more therapy. Together we keep it real, raw, and sometimes ridiculous. Welcome to the therapist in the wild card. I'm Vit, a certified grief coach, psychology student, widow in wildcard. And I'm the therapist.

SPEAKER_02 0:27

Jen, just the therapist. I need more titles, I feel like.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Just the therapist is crazy because you've literally saved my life, but okay.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

Life saver.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Oh, we should get you some lifesavers.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

Why do you not have lifesavers all over your office? Okay, that spiled quickly, but here we are. The therapist in the wild card. We're back. Alright. Vit has a post she would like to address.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

I saw this post the other day.

unknown 0:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 0:56

Wait, where?

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Instagram.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Oh, like, okay. I just thought you were gonna say like on a specific feed or something.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Well, don't I have to give permission to like mention her?

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Okay, probably. God.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

So to be fair, I didn't message her, she didn't message me back. So I just assumed it was like a public reel. It was, but I'm just f Jennifer. Oh so it said, and had a video. You know how it has like a video and then like the post. Yeah. The video thing is seven signs you're avoiding grief. Respectfully, this might be you. I read it, I didn't think it was me. It might not be me, but when I was reading it, I was like, hmm. It says, I thought I was handling my grief really well. Turns out I was just busy. Like reorganizing the pantry at 10 p.m. busy. Everyone thinks I'm strong, busy. If I stop moving, I might fall apart busy. So if you ever wondered if you're actually healing or just avoiding it, here are seven signs.

unknown 2:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

You're insanely busy. You feel numb. Not peace. Just flat. You're taking care of everyone else's grief, but not your own. I was like, ouch. You've either erased everything or haven't touched a single thing. You're angry more than you used to be. You're learning. Oh, oops. You're leaning on something to cope. Scrolling, food, wine, shopping. Or you say I'm fine and you actually believe it. None of this is shame, this is awareness because you can't heal what you keep walking around. It goes on for a little bit more, but I was like, some of those are me. So how do you differentiate like avoidance or my purpose?

SPEAKER_02 3:09

I think for you personally, I think it's different. You needed to be busy to a certain extent to get past some of the grief in the OCD. Not everybody deals with OCD and grief at the same time like you do.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

You always say that, and I always forget how much of a part of the thing. Yeah, because it's just my it's my normal. So right. Right.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

So you needed that in order to kind of move through those steps. And there are times that you were too busy. You know, you were overwhelmed. You were like, why am I you weren't coming home until 10 o'clock every night? Like, had no time for yourself.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

I don't know how I did that because I was at dinner last night and it was eight o'clock, and I looked at Angela. I was like, Do you need to be home? She's like, Well, do you think I have a curfew because I'm 20? I said, No, I just, it's late.

SPEAKER_02 3:59

And says the person who texted me at 9 and my phone was off.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Listen, I needed you. I almost texted Steve for you.

SPEAKER_02 4:10

But anyway, we digressed yet again. Um, so you know, I mean being busy is good, but when being busy is an avoidance tactic, and we talked about this at one point, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:22

I did because it was an avoidance tactic for me for a period.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

It because you were avoiding going home to deal with all the OCD stuff.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

On top of the grief. I think a lot of it early on was a lot of the OCD stuff. Because you could make an excuse that just because you were coming home late, you didn't have to do X, Y, and Z. Mm-hmm that you didn't want to do. So you avoided it.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Yeah, I did.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

Okay, go ahead. No, no, no, no, no, no. I was gonna say, I think it's important for people to differentiate between am I too busy as I'm avoiding feeling stuff? And if so, what is it that we're avoiding feeling? Is it grief? Is it OCD? Is it the anxiety of falling asleep alone? Is it the anxiety of I'm not gonna be able to sleep tonight? So I'm gonna get up at 10 o'clock and I'm gonna bust my butt doing something. Because everybody avoids something different. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 5:27

Um so do we think my busyness now is avoidance, or am I just genuinely busy?

SPEAKER_02 5:36

No, I think you're genuinely busy at an okay level. If that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

Nope. I don't feel okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:46

I know, I know. Well, and when when you started school, right, you're like, I got this, I got this, I don't got this, I don't got this. You know, but it's also because it was a transition period, right? You were doing four days a week and then you went to working five days a week, right around the same time as like other stuff was happening. Oh, there was a lot of school, and then you had family stuff, and like there was just a lot going on, and you know now, like when you're overwhelmed and it's too much, it's usually because you've been too busy and you've been not focusing on home. Tell me I'm wrong.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

No, my home's a disaster, and I thought so. Sometimes I think my home is the way that it is because of the OCD, because it's like I can't do this because then I'm gonna have to shower, or if I do this, then I'm gonna feel dirty, and then this is gonna lead into one thing and then the other, and then this, that, and the third. But then I was homesick last week. I did that because they're gonna be like, what the fuck is this bitch doing? I switched out my cartilage piercing today and it really fucking hurts. So that's so you may see that in a few videos. Um, so what was I saying?

SPEAKER_02 7:10

The reason your house is the way it is because of the OCD.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

So I thought it was a lot of the OCD, and I'm I'm sh not saying that the OCD doesn't contribute to it. Right. Um, but when I was home sick last week, I got a lot of shit done. So it was like, do I just need time to be home? Because here's the thing. During the week, here's the thing. I was gonna call you out on that, but during the week, by time I get home, settled, have dinner, do school work, if I even get to the schoolwork before I fall asleep, right? Uh that's my week.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

Um, you know, unless I have an appointment or brief group and the set and the third. And then on the weekends is when Chris and I would like catch up on things around the house. I'm not home on the weekends. Right. Like I couldn't tell you the last weekend that I was just home for even a half of a day.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

Yeah. Like Well, and do you feel like you need to build in more home time for yourself just to feel less overwhelmed?

SPEAKER_01 8:23

Yeah, but I don't know how.

SPEAKER_02 8:26

Well, considering you just signed up for six summer classes. Gang gang. Well, and it's hard. You don't wanna you don't want to let people down. So there are times when you overcommit. Then the day comes and you're like, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Can I be honest? The only people that I don't not look forward to seeing, is that a thing?

SPEAKER_02 8:52

I don't know, but good.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

Is like you guys. Like anyone else I make plans with, I'm like, I do not want to do this today. There's been a couple of times where I was like, I didn't want to like leave, like I wanted to see you guys and hang out, but I was like, damn, I don't want to leave the house. Yeah, but like you guys are like the only people that I'm not like I mean, even Ange wanted to go to dinner one time after my lashes, but she had another client. I said, no, I'm gonna be home. I'm not coming back out. And she was like, that's that's fair. Um did he just say something?

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Yeah, hey Vit.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

What Steve?

SPEAKER_00 9:31

How do you make holy water?

SPEAKER_01 9:34

Boil the hell out of it. Damn it. It's a church girl. Give her another stumper. Um hey Vit. Oh yes, Steve.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

Why are Christmas trees bad at uh knitting?

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Too many needles. All their needles fell off.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

They always drop their needles. You guys were there.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

They were so close. Um, I like the three-way. That sounds weird. Wow, look at the time. Um and rare as fuck. But yeah, I will like, but here's the thing. Here's the thing. Just here's the thing.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

Here's the thing.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

When I make the plans, I genuinely want to do them. Right. And then the day comes and I'm like, absolutely fucking not. What excuse can I come up with today? Right. Um, unless it's you guys. But there, I feel like, I don't know, there's like no pressure with you guys. It's just like, I don't know, Steve cooks. We hang around. We're here for the food. What's their not right? Um, and like you're just good, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 10:49

There's no there's no she's not knocking at any of her friends, it's just that sometimes you're overwhelmed, and that's okay. There are times that we fall canceled plans because we were both just kind of like or there's honestly sometimes where I'm like, like still on for today, and I'm like, God, I hope she's sister. Um, but yeah, but you can always cancel on me, and I'll be okay. I know you're not gonna be disappointed.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

I know. I don't know if I ever no, I would if I needed to. Um, but yeah, so it's like hard because like on the weekends, I want to see my nephews. Right. I want to see Chris's family. They're an hour and a half away. When I go there, it's a whole night thing. Right. Um and I think I've done better with finding a balance for sure. Um, my friend group has also lessened, so that has helped.

SPEAKER_02 11:52

Yeah. Um it's okay not to have your shit together every freaking day.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

Oh, good, because I never have my shit together.

SPEAKER_02 12:01

Well, that's the thing. Like, I think most people, you included, right? We let things pile up because we don't have time, and then all of a sudden we're like, shit. Like I gotta sit down. I'm freaking out because this needs to be done, and this needs to be done, and this needs to be done. Like a normal part of life.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

That was probably loud.

unknown 12:20

It wasn't bad.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

Steve didn't complain.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Yeah. That was loud. Typical figure. I don't know, it's just it's hard to be okay with that. Just pick and choose certain things. You know what I mean? Like, I had to choose between podcasting and going to the doctor today. This is true. I don't know, I just grief plays a part in that because, like I said earlier on another episode or whatever the fuck we're at now, things mean there's like a different meaning to things. Right. And so, like, and you have to to keep relationships and friendships going, like, you have to put an effort. Like, friendships are just not a whatever. Like, you know, if we didn't, uh, if we didn't text every day or every other day, like it would be different. So there's certain friendships that I, you know, want to make sure, like, what ain't I I just canceled four times in a row. I probably shouldn't do a fifth. Right. Because I've had friends tell me, like, no, you kept saying no, so like we stopped asking. And that's fair, yeah. But I'm like, just keep just asking. I'm probably gonna say no. Right. But it's nice to feel included. So yeah, I don't know, that balance is hard. And I don't know, Tam always says I'm the busiest widow she knows, but like, how many fucking widows you know? I mean, she has six kids, and like I sometimes she's like, dude, what do you do? Like, I don't know, I'm always busy. Right. But I feel like we were talking about avoidance. I don't I think at this point they're all for good things. I don't think it's avoidance. I don't think so either. I was just thinking, I was just making sure I wasn't like avoiding my house, but I'm not because I want to do it.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

You want to do it, but sometimes at the end of the day, you're just so tired or overwhelmed, you're like, I don't know where to start, so I'm just going to bed.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

That and then it's like, okay, do I stay home Saturday and take care of my house? But then, like, the the grief mentality is no, live life. Right. You're life is short, live it. The house will be there, the house will be okay. Yep, live your life, and that's completely different than who I was prior. Yeah. Because I was like, oh no, I'll I'll go out if my house is perfect. Right. Bruh. My house. Jesus Christ. You never went out. This is true. But yeah, so I don't know. I'm just learning how to how to do life. Yeah. Do you ever know how to do it? You're old. Do you ever know how to do life? Is that a no? You still don't know what you're doing?

SPEAKER_00 15:31

No, I don't know what I'm doing. When you were little, little I wanted to be a forest ranger.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Oh my god. I could so see that.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

And then I ended up as a nuclear engineer on a submarine. Kind of went the opposite way.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

Submarine is crazy. But when you were little. See, I don't know though, because like ask the question. So we're just like Well, it's not really a question. It's like when I was little, I thought, okay, so I'm 37 years old. I thought people who were 37 years old had their shit together. Like that's true, actually.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

Like, didn't you or did they? Like, I don't I don't know if they did or didn't, but the impression as a kid is that those people had it together. Okay, so think about that 30 years ago. Times were very different. People were getting married and having kids in the early 20s. By the mid-30s, the kids were practically teenagers. The cost of living was different, the economy was different.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

Yeah, but I was almost retired from the Navy at that age.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

In the Navy. Well, you don't count, you're old. Or just kidding. I love you so much. Um but it's like even the way I treat kids nowadays, like I'd be kicking it with them. Like me in Brooklyn. Yeah. Like I'm I'm an adult, but I'm not. Like, right. I don't feel like I didn't have like my adults when I was growing up, they were adults. Yeah. They were like, you know, get the fuck away from us, go play. Maybe that's trauma. I don't know if that's normal now that I just said that out loud. Is that normal?

SPEAKER_02 17:28

That's some people's experience, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Yeah, like our parents were like hands-off parents. Times were so different though, because like on the weekends we were with our cousins. We were always at somebody's house, or everyone was at our house. Like people were together more, yeah. So, like, we didn't need to be up our parents' asses. We bye.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

Well, and that's the thing. What I feel like the generation, like earlier generations, like our generations, were more independent, could play independently with their siblings without getting into meltdowns. But technology has changed people.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

Technology and just the fucking world. Me and my cousins used to go down to like random ass wooded areas and make forts and shit in the woods, and that's where it started. That's where it started. There it is, man. Cool. And like we had like a whole house, like in the woods at the at the end of the block, and we would be gone for hours. Parents wouldn't know where we were. Yep. Now you can't let your kid out the fucking front door without thinking someone's gonna snatch him up because this world's stupid. Yep. So I mean, yeah, times have changed, but I don't feel like an adult. Do you? I'm old.

SPEAKER_02 18:46

I'm an adult. So that's if you don't want to be an adult, don't be an adult. Legally speaking, you're an adult. I know, but like mentality-wise, you feel no, I don't mentality-wise, I don't feel 46.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

How old do you feel?

SPEAKER_02 19:06

Like probably in my 30s. I'm gonna regret saying this, I think, but I'm still 22. 29 forever.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

Yeah, because I don't feel like I don't know. Like, I know I'm 37, I've been through some shit, okay? Right and then I have some friends who are 20, and I'm like, oh no, I'm I'm definitely 37. But I'm like, I don't know, mentally I don't feel like I'm almost 40. Yeah, like almost 40. I'm sorry, I know you're 46. But like you're just crazy.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

Yeah. Well, and people live longer now than they did 30 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 19:47

Well, I wouldn't know. My husband died at 33.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

There it is. What you got? Yeah, nothing. Can't deny it. But I mean, realistically speaking, people did did live shorter lives earlier. Did they? I feel like it.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

I feel like the the lifespan was I feel like it had to be more because now we got all these chemicals and food. Steve's gonna Google it for us. I feel like we just I don't know, like life was simpler back then though. It was totally yeah, I miss like running the streets and oh my god, literally running the streets.

SPEAKER_02 20:30

Parents didn't matter. I mean, now we gotta track all our kids on their cell phones and there's cameras absorbing them everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

It is so different because like if I wanted to play with a friend, I'm riding my bike down the street, screaming in their front lawn. Right, can you play? And their parents, no, we're about to have dinner. Oh, sorry. Or the parents that you know, you just walk in the house and oh, you stay in for dinner? Yeah, sure. Yeah. Oh, I miss those days. There was no cell phones, there was no nothing.

SPEAKER_00 20:59

According to Google, average U.S. life expectancy over the past 30 years generally hovered between 75 and 79 years, rising from the mid-70s in the mid-1990s to a peak near 79 before dipping due to COVID-19. As of 2024, US life expectancy were bounded to 79 years, with females 81.4 living longer than males, 76.5.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

Interesting. Look at the nest.

SPEAKER_02 21:28

Yeah, COVID definitely uh damaged those numbers, but fucking COVID. Seriously.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

That's still wild to me. Like, that's wild. Like, I didn't leave my house for like a month and a half. Like the governor literally was like, Don't go to work, don't leave the house, don't do this, don't do that. I was trapped at home with three kids. Well, that's unfortunate because I was living my best life, bruh. At home. doing nothing oh my god i was like cooking i was doing puzzles i was like and i made sure that i showered every day and like got dressed well you know because like when you're home that much you can like lose track of like some structure yeah so i wanted to like make sure that i woke up every day showered and at least like put clothes on um ah man i was living my life that was probably were such a good time i covet was the best i mean it like fucked me up but like i loved it and then like once you started finally going out you had like your your little group of like the your safe people safe people the only people you can hang out with it was amazing yeah i wouldn't be mad if it came back a little let me let me not do that because there's that thing going on right now with the thing you know that thing on the ship yes what so you're gonna go back on a ship huh you fuck yes you'll know listen I think grief did that to me too hold on I think I have to nope it won't do it so I think about this often because I used to be a very cautious person I'm not no you're borderline reckless yeah and it's like is that like a grief thing like is that like a life a short thing like whatever or like what what chemical imbalance do I have and part of it too is you did not have that mindset early on you've grown into that mindset did I because early on you were still very OCD kind of thing and then it was towards New Year's Eve when you became a little more free you think I don't know really because like you say OCD but like recklessness I was a little fun reckless at times yeah I mean your excuse a lot of times was like fuck it I'm a widowing but that's how you justified some of the things he did yeah it's just weird though because like I don't know YOLO you only live once I'm bringing back 2005 oh I say YOLO all the time I'm bringing back the dab I told Isabella and she was like yeah let's do it that was epic like I want that like that's a real cool it's a real that's a lifetime situation I love it you gonna say something hey bit yes Steve what did Elvis say to the landscaper a thank you for the mulch that's so bad I love it we had a giant picture of Elvis's face in our basement because my mom loved him does she still have it probably we also had a little ET doll creepy yeah well anyways back to the recklessness it's weird because there just are things nowadays but then like I'm still scared that I'm gonna get shot somewhere so you've let go of some things and other things you're still holding on to yeah that's okay that's interesting because now I'd like to maybe like kind of keep a little list of things I notice.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

Of course well and also okay going on a cruise your experience is very different than just going to a public place randomly like you enjoy cruises don't touch your ear oh itch is not that part Jesus thank you though thank you thank you thank you always mad at me but you know what I mean um cruises are fun for you you're more likely to go on a cruise because you've haven't had a great time numerous times but when you've gone into bigger crowds there's been problems yeah like I'm scared to go to this concert tomorrow I'm not gonna lie where is it at probably like little Caesars I don't know people just be shooting each other and I know you can't trust anybody like stuff just be happening and fights and just I don't know the world's crazy but like I drive without a seat well so send her a ticket Noah Noah Noah isn't here I know you're welcome you better put the time down on that because that was a good one for her okay okay okay well is that a rap or more reckless and you're not and that's why we balance each other out and impulsive all right so I want to get a tattoo that says Jen or Serenity.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

That's a wrap folks I knew that was gonna get her yes Steve I want to give a shout out to the sidewalks for keeping me off the streets shout out sidewalks and that's really officially a wrap therapist and the wild card.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

That's a wrap for the therapist and the wild card one of us brings the therapy and the other brings the chaos together we'll be back with more laughter healing and everything in between