Episode 25 - Joy and Grief Can Sit Together

For this episode, Jen and Vit talk about something many grieving people struggle with: the idea that joy and grief can exist at the same time. After a significant loss, moments of happiness can bring unexpected guilt, as if laughing, celebrating, or moving forward means leaving our loved one behind.

We discuss why grief doesn't disappear when joy shows up, and why experiencing joy doesn't mean you're grieving any less. Both emotions can share the same space. You can miss someone deeply while still finding reasons to smile. You can carry heartbreak and gratitude, sadness and hope, grief and joy—all at once.

Join us as we explore the complicated, messy, and surprisingly beautiful reality of learning to hold both.  

The Therapist & The Wildcard is a mental health podcast hosted by The Wildcard, alongside The Therapist, where real conversations meet professional insight—and nothing is off-limits. Together, they dive into therapy, grief, healing, relationships, emotional chaos, and the moments that make you laugh, cry, or ask, “Is this normal?”

Some episodes go deep. Some go sideways. Most do both. The Wildcard brings the unfiltered conversation, lived experience, and humor people are

usually afraid to say out loud, while The Therapist grounds the conversation with clinical knowledge, compassion, and perspective—without killing the vibe.

This podcast isn’t about having it all figured out. It’s about talking through the mess, naming the hard stuff, and finding meaning (and humor) along the way. If you’ve ever laughed through pain, questioned your own reactions, or wanted therapy talk without the therapy voice—welcome. You’re in the right place.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Therapist in the Wildcard, the show about grief, mental health, and all the messy stuff in between. One of us helps people heal for a living, and the other probably needs more therapy. Together we keep it real, raw, and sometimes ridiculous. Welcome to the therapist in the wildcard. I'm Vit, a certified grief coach, psychology student, widow, and wildcard. And I'm Jen, the therapist. What was the look? Because it's your turn.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

The therapist that, the therapist that keeps you in check.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Yeah, we gotta come up with more things for you.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Seriously, I did like my intro, The Therapist. I provide the tissues, you provide the issues. Well, that was pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

It's not wrong. No. Alright. Alright, we're gonna talk about. I'm not really sure. The joy and grief and just all the shit in between. Yes. So I wouldn't call them stages, but I don't really know what the fuck they are. So you starting off great. Put it out there. Okay. So I feel like in the beginning of grief, you're kind of stuck in grief. You don't know, not that you ever fully get out of it. Right. But you don't know how to get out of it. You don't know how to not feel guilty, or sometimes you don't want to get out of it, or feel joy, or because you feel like you're betraying your loved one. But both of those things, joy and grief, can coexist. But you don't realize that at first. You don't think they should. No. But the truth of the matter is our person is gone and we are still here. Yep. And especially if you're young, you know, it's different if you're, I don't know, in your fucking 80s or 90s and your partner dies. Like, but when you're young, and that's not to say an 80-year-old shouldn't get remarried, you do you boo. But or feel grief. You guys knew what I meant. Yeah. But there's I don't know when or how you decide that it's okay. I don't know if it just kind of happens naturally with life or what you do, but so many people that I encounter are just like stuck. And they feel guilty if there's any sort of like I don't know, smiles, laugh. And you do. Like, I remember feeling so even in the days after he died. I mean, you know, because the day after, like, I'm I'm with my nephews, I'm with family. So like normal life is still happening while everything else and funeral planning and things are still happening. Yeah. And you're like, how the fuck am I even laughing right now? Right. And my husband just died. It's like such a it's a weird dynamic between all that feeling, and like it's so surreal. Because you're like, is this happening to me? And then you're like, it's fucking crazy. And I hope people don't have to experience it, but I know they do, but it's fucking cr it's wild. And then you're like, I'm eating breakfast in my pre going to bed for the first time wild. Absolutely wild.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

Well, and everybody grieves differently, you know, grief isn't linear. We've said that before, right? You deal with what's put in front of you day by day.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Yeah, and I don't know when that's when did the switch happen for me? You know.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Um I think there were a lot of switches that went on and off. You know what I mean? Like there was like the dating, and then the God, the switch flipped down, and we were done with that.

SPEAKER_00 4:39

You know, and then uh you we talked a lot about finding your purpose. I think there's a spider behind your head, but it's about you better hurry up, it's about to go. Oh, that's on camera now.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Ugh. Where's the hand sanitizer? Alright, where were we? Joy. Joy, joy.

unknown 5:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

What were we talking about? We're talking about joy and oh, like when oh, switches. Switches, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Switches.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

Um switches get stitches. Yeah, but then you were you were conscious or conscientious, like you were aware you needed a new reason, a new why, a new purpose.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

You were willing to go seek that out. But do we think I would have ever got there if I didn't have you or was like in therapy? No. Don't hesitate.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

Don't hesitate. No, because I think that gave you an opportunity to really provide some introspection on like you're 37 years old, like you have your whole life ahead of you. It's not like you're 90 and like on your deathbed. You have to find a way. This is true. But you also put in a substantial amount of effort to get past that. I mean, I think last summer is really when things started to change. Like you tried the dating scene, you tested the water, then you're like, okay, we're done with that. That was that switch was done. Dumb, you know. But you needed to do it for yourself to see what it was like. You know, and then you started getting out more with friends. You went through that phase where you were out every night. Right. I think probably about a year ago. Well, we're in mid-May now. About a year ago is when things started to change for you.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

I'm just trying to do the math of after he died.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

Yeah. Well, and that's kind of when you started looking at school and psychology and yeah, I'd say probably like eight or nine months.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

Because I remember dating last summer, like around my birthday, so that's end of June. Probably a little bit into July, and then it kind of probably faded off. Right, and then you started school in the fall.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

So yeah, but you also knew that you didn't want to be in this stuck place forever.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Yeah, and I think just kind of I don't know, educating yourself and being around other grievers, and you have a life to live. Being happy doesn't mean I'm not grieving. Right. There isn't a second of any part of the day that he's not on my mind, right? Or that like the grief isn't on my mind. Yeah. So even when I'm laughing or like it's still there. Yeah, people may not see it, right? But I can want it's there. Like, and it's okay to experience happiness and joy and all of those things.

SPEAKER_01 8:33

Yep. Well, and part of it too is you're gonna be judged by others. Oh, right? Like when you were in the dating world, you didn't want to tell anybody because you're like, oh, they're gonna judge me, right? Yep, you have to do stuff at your pace, at what your comfort level is.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

Yeah, there I remember even going to Mexico, and I was worried with his family after he passed.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

You were worried about that.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

They had invited me after he passed, you know. They were like, Do you want to come? Because they knew me and him were not gonna come on a trip. Like, right, and I was like, you know what? Yeah, this is a good opportunity to become closer with his family, just get out for a little bit, kind of break up my routine. And I was so worried of like even posting pictures or them posting pictures, right? Because I'm like, someone's gonna see me smiling or on a vacation, and they're gonna be like, oh, she's already over him. Right. No, that's not how it works, but like I'm still living. Living. Yep. Like, am I just supposed to stay home and cry all day? I think in the beginning that's what you thought you were gonna do. Yeah, I don't as a griever, I don't think you don't see any other way. Right, your whole world just fucking changed.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

And yeah, and then there's like the accepted thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

And then there was a part of me that didn't want to be anything but sad, right? Because then you feel guilty. Like, it's it's a crazy combination of life, right? Like, there's not even any words for it. No, no, it's just wild. Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

It's but at a certain point, too, you have to be okay experiencing joy and happiness, and it's uncomfortable and awkward.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

Oh, especially in the beginning when you're like, you finally make that kind of like that switch of the realization of okay, I'm still here on earth. Yep, I still have this whole life to live ahead of me.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

It's okay to be okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:40

Oh, yeah, that one really fucked me up. You're like, what? It's okay to be okay. Yeah, and I think it was even weirder coming just because I was in a dark spot for so long. Right. I never thought I was gonna like come out of that. So then when things started to take a turn, it felt wrong. Right. Like, how do you go from one extreme to the other? I know it was like a gradual, but still, it it feels wrong. Right. You then you you question yourself, right? You're like, oh, did did I love this person as much as I thought?

SPEAKER_01 11:17

Did I like you did ask a lot of questions like that? Like, am I crazy? Am I wrong? Should I be doing this differently? Like, should I date? Should I not? What did you think when I first you do you boo? My goal is to self-empowerment.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

Can't stand you sometimes. Love ya. But what did what were your like your inner thoughts when that happened? Did you have any? Did you know I wasn't ready? Did like did you know this was like part of the grief cycle?

SPEAKER_01 11:54

I knew it needed to happen at some point, you know, but you were still trying to figure out who the hell you were.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

I still don't know.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

And that's okay. You're trying, you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

I mean, I know more than I did.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

True. You know, um, honestly, I just honestly I didn't think you were actually gonna be dating. I thought you were just gonna pop onto a dating site because that's what we had talked about. That's what I thought too. That's what I thought too. And then stuff changed, but also you weren't anybody's priority, right? And it felt nice to have people contacting you and and talking to you and about you and well, and that's what I mean.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

I was very transparent when I said I was going on these dating sites. I was like, it feels nice to have people interested in you. Right. I said, so I'm just gonna go on there, I'm just gonna see what it's like, see what's out there. I didn't know what the dating world was like, and I just wanted to like see if I still had it. Right. I didn't want to talk to nobody, I didn't want to date, right? And then, like, I don't know, you get caught up in those feelings. Oh, somebody is interested. And right. I low-key thought that the fact that I couldn't have kids and I was a widow was gonna scare people away. Nope. They fucking loved it for whatever reason. Yeah, well, the can't have kids thing, I can see. Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

But like Well, it's not like you have an ex-boyfriend who's gonna come along and start causing problems. That part.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Like, I'm probably like no baggage, the guy is gone. This is perfect. Yeah, that's fucked up, but yeah. I don't know. I wouldn't want to date a widow if I wasn't a widow. But men probably.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

But are you sure?

SPEAKER_00 13:43

What if Chris was a widow? Okay, bruh, but he wasn't. But what if he was?

SPEAKER_01 13:49

It wouldn't have changed things for you.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

No, but dating a widow, there's so much that comes with it.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

Same with somebody who's divorced with kids. Like, everybody's got baggage. Oh, well, pop off. Clock it. I heard you've been doing this. Isabella's so proud of me. I was like, Well, did she tell you? Like, I emailed her, I was like, is this where I would do clock it? Oh, like yes. Way to go. Oh, you did it right. I Googled it. Anyway, we digressed. However, what's wrong with dating a widow? Everybody's got their shit.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

I know, but there's just like the thing is like with dating a widow, the person, I don't know. It's so weird because I'm still in love with my husband. Yes, he's gone. But like when you get divorced or like you break up, like there's there's usually something that causes the fallout. Sometimes it's just one person. Okay, so this is where the therapist really just backfires on me because you always have an answer.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

Well, and that's the thing. Like, I mean, don't get discouraged dating a widow, okay?

SPEAKER_00 15:11

No, I mean, listen, it's it's just different. It's just different. Everybody's got their background. Okay, but can we talk about when I was dating and the motherfucker I was dating was threatened by Chris? Oh yeah, that was a little weird. He didn't come back from the dead. Like, what? Like, I literally asked him. I was like, what I don't even know what the f what was it? Like, what's your biggest fear? Fear or insecurity or something in like this relationship. And I have a photo frame, a digital one at my house, and like pictures rotate. And right when I had asked him that, a picture of Chris popped up, and he was like, him. I was so taken back. I was like, what? I know he's dead. Mind you, this guy at the time lived. Jen, why did you let me make these bad decisions? He lived with his baby mama. And he was worried about my dead husband. I literally, I was like, he he's not gonna walk through the door. Like, what do you but he's always gonna be a part of who you are, and he was like, I he was like, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to like fill his shoes or love you the way he did. Every relationship's different, and I was like, but it's not he compared a lot, yeah, and thought I was comparing, and I really, really tried my hardest to not because that's not right to the other person. No, but he was also insecure there, bruh. Pencil, red flag, but yeah, so I don't know. It's just it's different dating a widow. But just like anything else, like dating someone with a kid or divorced.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

Okay, so if you've dated a widow and are watching this, comment and tell us how weird it is or isn't.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

Let's get some feedback. Okay, so like I have a family member who their wife died, their literal soulmate. This person got a girlfriend. Um and okay, so this person was married for years, had two grown children. Um devastating to literally the whole family. And then this person started dating. Kind of shocked us all, but you're like, okay, they still have a life to live. Yep. We all love this person, by the way. She's amazing, and she really embraces his deceased wife. She celebrates her birthday with them. She, you know, talks about her. She didn't even know her, but like she knows it was the kid's mom, and like she really embraces her. Yeah. That's not easy to do, no, in my opinion. Yeah. To be like, oh, it's your dead wife's birthday. Let's celebrate, let's have a get together. Like that's that takes a lot of maturity. Yeah. I don't even know. I'm a widow. And I don't even know if I could do that without having some sort of. I'm just keeping it real. You know what I mean? Like, I don't that that's a lot. Yeah. But yeah, like, you know, she, when it's their wedding anniversary, the deceased person and this guy, like his current wife now will like make a post or like get him something still like that. Right. That's a secure, confident person, right there. So I don't even know if I'm that secure and confident because Lord knows. But but yeah, so it's just it's a different dynamic. Because it's not like we broke up with that person or we didn't like them, or there was a falling out, like most widows. If you're in a healthy, loving relationship, like you still love that person. Yeah. So yeah, I don't know, it's just different and crazy. But yeah, Oscar's exhausted from this conversation. Yeah. He was like, damn, this bitch is long-winded. But yeah, so we said all that to say. You can experience joy and still be grieving. It's okay to be okay. It's okay to be okay. Yeah, that one. I said that in um group the other night. And that's a wrap. That's a wrap for the therapist and the wild card. One of us brings the therapy and the other brings the chaos. Together, we'll be back with more laughter, healing, and everything in between.