Episode 26 - Looking at Grief From Another Angle

What happens when we stop trying to define grief and start describing it?

In this episode, Jen brings a series of thought-provoking prompts, and together we explore grief through metaphors and personal reflection. Sometimes grief feels impossible to explain directly, but comparing it to something else can reveal truths we didn't even realize we were carrying.

Join us for a conversation that is thoughtful, honest, and occasionally surprising as we examine the many shapes grief can take.

The Therapist & The Wildcard is a mental health podcast hosted by The Wildcard, alongside The Therapist, where real conversations meet professional insight—and nothing is off-limits. Together, they dive into therapy, grief, healing, relationships, emotional chaos, and the moments that make you laugh, cry, or ask, “Is this normal?”

Some episodes go deep. Some go sideways. Most do both. The Wildcard brings the unfiltered conversation, lived experience, and humor people are

usually afraid to say out loud, while The Therapist grounds the conversation with clinical knowledge, compassion, and perspective—without killing the vibe.

This podcast isn’t about having it all figured out. It’s about talking through the mess, naming the hard stuff, and finding meaning (and humor) along the way. If you’ve ever laughed through pain, questioned your own reactions, or wanted therapy talk without the therapy voice—welcome. You’re in the right place.

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61581431292635 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thetherapistandthewildcard TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thetherapistnthewildcard

The Therapist & The Wildcard is a mental health podcast hosted by The Wildcard, alongside The Therapist, where real conversations meet professional insight—and nothing is off-limits. Together, they dive into therapy, grief, healing, relationships, emotional chaos, and the moments that make you laugh, cry, or ask, “Is this normal?”

Some episodes go deep. Some go sideways. Most do both. The Wildcard brings the unfiltered conversation, lived experience, and humor people are

usually afraid to say out loud, while The Therapist grounds the conversation with clinical knowledge, compassion, and perspective—without killing the vibe.

This podcast isn’t about having it all figured out. It’s about talking through the mess, naming the hard stuff, and finding meaning (and humor) along the way. If you’ve ever laughed through pain, questioned your own reactions, or wanted therapy talk without the therapy voice—welcome. You’re in the right place.

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61581431292635 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thetherapistandthewildcard TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thetherapistnthewildcard

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to the Therapist in the Wildcard, the show about grief, mental health, and all the messy stuff in between. One of us helps people heal for a living, and the other probably needs more therapy. Together we keep it real, raw, and sometimes ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

I have some questions about overcoming grief and acceptance. And I find this ironic because the quote at the top is this grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference. Interesting, huh? Yep. Okay, so complete these sentences. I want to tell the people why it's interesting. Because it's the whole reason Serenity exists, basically.

unknown 0:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

They don't know that. Serenity. Oh. Serenity. We don't have to keep that one.

unknown 0:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

We do. My grief feels like the season's coming and going because. Oh, one more time. My grief feels like the season's coming and going because. Okay, next one. My grief feels like a complicated puzzle because.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

Because nothing fucking fits. Everything's just all over the place. There's edges missing, there's inside pieces missing. Everything's missing. Your person's missing. It's the main piece of the puzzle. Just kidding. That was a little, I wasn't kidding.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Okay. But why does your grief feel like a complicated puzzle?

SPEAKER_02 1:38

Because you don't know how to piece things back together.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

When it gets all shaken up and mixed up.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

Yeah. Like. And then when once you think you have it figured out, boom, someone throws the puzzle.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Cat gets on the table and fucking neck.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

But yeah, you just yeah, you don't know how to piece shit together afterwards. Right. And literally, as soon as you think you got it figured out, you don't. You don't.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

No. It's like every edge has a straight line on it. Every piece has a straight line. You gotta figure out where to go. No?

unknown 2:19

Cool.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Okay. So my grief feels like physical pain because.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

It literally does. Like you just feel different. Your body is just different. I used to think something was wrong with me because I was just like so tired all the time. And then I started to learn that it literally is like grief. Like grief affects you physically. Yeah. There's a lot of things I learned about grief, like after I had to like firsthand experience it. Yeah. That you don't think of. It's crazy. But yeah. Okay. You want to add on that at all, or no, my whole body hurts. I don't know if it's old age or grief.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Probably both. Yeah, that's right. Alright, my grief feels like a broken vase. Because.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

Because I can't hold anything together. Kind of like the puzzle.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Kind of like the puzzle. There's not enough super glue to bring it all back together. No.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

It's just. I like the vase one though. I do too. Like I just like see like a broken vase with like water coming out. And like just.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

And then how do you piece that back together, right? Yeah, you don't. It'll never be the same.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

Mm-mm. No, it's like that. What is that? Chinese or Japanese with the gold. One of you has to know what I'm talking about. Thank you. It's like, I want to say it's Japanese. The Asian community is gonna be like, bitch, get it together. Um but if like something like that breaks, they don't throw it away. They fix it with like gold. But it has like a meaning.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

Kinsugi? Yeah, I'm not gonna try that because Yeah, I'm gonna murder it too, but it's uh called Kinsugi, I believe. Alright, is your brother? Generally means golden joinery. Rather than hiding cracks, it honors a piece's history by repairing it with a natural lacquer and precious metals like gold.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

Hey Steve.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

There's a spider on the wall. That's a big one.

SPEAKER_02 4:52

That's what she said. We have tissue over here. Oh my god, why are there so many spiders in here today? There's probably some in this blanket that I can't see.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

Probably because it's so damp outside. Sorry, buddy. That was like the gentlest thing. I was like, whack. Sorry, buddy.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

Yeah, you progress. You have a whole mark on your wall behind you. Do I? Yeah. No. I can see it from here. Really? Yeah, it's white. Bug guts.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Okay, anything more on the broken vase? I like the broken vase thing.

SPEAKER_02 5:31

No, I like it. It's I can see it more than I can explain it.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

Right. So that's a thing. I can picture like the shattered vase, right? So if you if one piece of that vase represented something, and then you started piecing all of it back together, what would be written on those pieces? Whoa.

SPEAKER_02 5:55

Going deep. I don't fucking know, Jen. What do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 6:01

So, like, for your broken vase, I see like one of the pieces has OCD on it. One of the other pieces is maybe money, right? Financial stability. Maybe one is employment. Maybe one is friends. Like what pieces shattered? Everything in your life shattered. And which ones are you starting to put back together? Because you can put the vase back together, but it's a process. You can't just go. You went deep with the vase. I do like that one. Hmm. Interesting. So what would you put on your vase? What are the pieces? Bro, every fucking thing.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

The ones that I'm starting to put back together? Yeah. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

You're better with this than I am. Because you see me in a different. Yeah. I mean, I think you're working on your relationships in general. Like with like relationships and boundaries.

unknown 7:05

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Between family and friends.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

Right. Um I think part of it is a career path. You know, like what do I do the rest of my life?

SPEAKER_02 7:18

Yeah, that goes back to like the financial stability. Financial stability.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

Like you're no longer a double income household, right? Dude, that shit sucks. Let me just tell you. Yep. That's not fun, especially in this economy.

unknown 7:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Yeah. But those are the things that you have to think about after that. Yeah. So I feel like those are the pieces that are starting to come together for you. I think part of it is accepting that it's okay to be okay and it's okay to have a bad day. Or both at the same time. That's fine too, right? Yeah. It's grief for a reason. Alright, I do like the broken vase analogy. Alright. Ooh, my grief feels like a raging river. And it comes in waves.

SPEAKER_02 8:17

It does. That's it comes in waves. And it just it the wave hits you out of nowhere. Like you're literally smacked upside the head with it. You fall off your surfboard, you're down and under. Like, no, literally the other day I was driving to work. I was fine. I was fine. I don't even, I don't, don't even think I was thinking about stuff. And then it it it dawned on me for the millionth time. My husband's dead. Like, I literally got married and my husband died. Like, this isn't supposed to happen to me. Like, this doesn't happen to me. You know, we all have stuff we hear about, but it didn't happen personally, yeah. And I was just but I tell you, I was sobbing in the car, like, bruh, it was bad. Yeah, you had a tough day. Yeah, and then and then I was okay for a little bit, and then I was in the car again later that day, and the song that I want played at my funeral came on, and it was just like all over again. I just wanted to go home and start over. Right. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

Well, it's the thing, it hits differently. Every day is different. You don't know when it's gonna hit, you don't know when it's gonna overflow. Like the wild river.

unknown 9:40

The river wild.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

Okay, so how about my grief feels like oh wait, I take that back. New sentences. I embrace my grief by. Oh. Damn. I mean, I can I have something, but I'm kind of curious what you're gonna say. Now you want me to say. Well, I was gonna be like by not killing myself.

unknown 10:15

I've got something.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

Oh no. Okay, I got something too, but go ahead. Oh.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

I think she embraces her grief by running a grief group.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

That's what I was gonna say. You got your grief coach certification, you run a grief group, you relate to others well, you offer up this opportunity for people to understand that they're not alone. It's not like you're isolating at home. This is true. So I feel like by sharing with others is how you're kind of embracing that you're here, it is what it is. Like, yeah, put it out there, it's okay to talk about. Do you agree or disagree?

SPEAKER_02 10:51

I agree. I try to normalize grief and death. Yeah. Because it's still crazy to me that like it's still such an uncomfortable topic for people when it's such a normal part of life. Thing.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

Yeah. And it's not just death of people per se, too.

SPEAKER_02 11:12

Like grief is like everywhere, everywhere, and it's still such an uncomfortable topic for so many. Yeah. It's like, let's figure out this elephant in the room and like make this more normalized. Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

Because well, and some people feel they can only experience grief with the death of a person. Correct. And that's not true.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

That's not true. No. Sometimes grieving someone who is alive is I don't want to say harder, but it's a different type. That person's still there. Right. And it's just like something happened to where you either had to cut ties, that person cut ties, like whatever the situation is. Yep. That's hard. Yeah. Like grieving a friendship is a whole nother level. Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Well, you know, or even grieving you have a baby, and your baby has is sick, right? Like has a permanent issue. Like you will never see what you imagine for that kid. You will never have that. So you have to grieve like that's not my kid. Right? Me and our friend were just talking about that yesterday.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

Alrighty then.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

Grief.

SPEAKER_02 12:27

Yep. There's so many forms.

unknown 12:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

It's okay to talk about. Yes, talk about it.

unknown 12:35

Talk.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

My grief reminds me that. Oh, Oscar, it's okay, buddy.

SPEAKER_02 12:44

Oh Oscar, we're gonna need you. Oh, do you have a new clicker?

SPEAKER_01 12:49

I know you don't like the vibrate, huh, buddy?

SPEAKER_02 12:51

Oh come here, bud. Good boy.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

You're gonna go to vet.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

I know, you're sad. I wouldn't want to go to my mom either after that.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Oh boy, buddy. Okay, so my grief reminds me that.

SPEAKER_02 13:09

Ay, ay, ay. There's so many things. Life is short.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

Good one.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

And that makes you see things differently. Um like I know we've talked about it before, like relationships mean more. Friendships. There's a deeper meaning, I think, to things once you experience a certain type of grief. Right. Um I had another one that I can't remember now.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Nailed it. What? Ask it again. My grief reminds me that. Life is short. What was my other one? I feel like you should know what my other one was. My grief reminds me that life throws to challenges and I can still be okay. There's that. Something about relationships in general, maybe? What the fuck? Cherish people more. Always say I love you.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

Are we getting these? Um yeah, just oh, I know. The problems that I used to think were problems are so like you just you're like eh, it is like those worries are not your worries anymore. Yeah, you're just like, there's bigger things in life. There's I've been through too fucking much to worry about something little. Like, it is what it is, it'll figure itself out. Um, even when friends are like complaining to me about certain things, it's probably gonna sound shitty, but in my head, I'm like, shut the actual fuck up. Right. Of course, I'm not gonna say that to them because I love that that is a problem for them, and it's not as big as losing a spouse. Yes, but it's like in my head, I'm like, damn, you really haven't been through shit, huh? But yeah, like just the little problems. I'm just you just brush them off, they just aren't problems anymore. Yeah, you just see things in a whole new light. You learn to let some stuff go. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's a big one, I think.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

Yeah, I like that. Thanks. Okay, here we go. These wills and won't represent your commitment to stay emotionally and physically healthy. Think about each one before you check off your agreement. Okay, so let's see if you're doing these. I will stay active in my daily life. Have you been doing that?

SPEAKER_02 16:01

Active, like exercise active, because that's a no. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

I will be patient with myself. No, do you feel like you're patient with yourself? That you give yourself grace? No. No, because usually I'm like, give yourself some grace. Like it's okay. Correct. Okay. I will connect with others. Yes. I feel like you're good at that. I will express my feelings to certain people. Maybe that should say I will express my feelings appropriately or in a healthy way. Oh, no. That changed, huh?

SPEAKER_02 16:38

Real quick.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

I will take care of my physical health. Why are you looking like that? Urgent care? Nope.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

I think I have cancer, but I'm not gonna go the doctor. Okay, cool. I have not been to my cancer checkup and I couldn't tell you how long, and it's not good. Yeah. Okay, so that's a no.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

I will seek support if I need it. Yeah. For the most part, I would say yes. Your support.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

Cool.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

I won't expect people to know how I'm feeling if I don't tell them. Well, sometimes you don't want to have to explain yourself to people, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

I feel like my husband's dead. You should know how I'm feeling, but people don't.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

Are you okay?

SPEAKER_02 17:28

And I can't expect them to know it, but like you still do. You're just like, the fuck? Right.

SPEAKER_01 17:33

How about I won't try to hide my feelings? Yeah, no, I hide them, bitches. I won't try to predict how long it will take to feel better. You did that a lot in the beginning. Like, should I be feeling better by now? Even now when I'm having a bad day, I'm like, what's wrong with me? Should I increase my well putrin? Like, why? Ooh, I won't isolate myself. You've been pretty good about that. I mean, you've avoided some stuff, but that's acceptable at times. I think you thought you were gonna isolate way more than you started.

SPEAKER_02 18:12

Did I go through an isolation? Isolation stage, or was it more of a let me be busy? Or did I do both?

SPEAKER_01 18:19

When you were living with your brother, I think it was more of an isolation thing. Exactly. And then when you started living at your place, you didn't because of the OCD though. So then you were the opposite of isolating. Like you were out until 11 or 12 almost every night.

SPEAKER_02 18:41

I wonder if without the OCD, if I would how things would have been different. Yeah, would I have isolated more? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Yeah. Maybe. But your house was your trigger. So yeah, we'll never know, but yeah. Right.

unknown 18:57

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Interesting. Um, I won't make any major decisions. Moving on. I won't try to escape from my feelings. I do I do that? You did in the beginning. Okay. Alcohol. Oh. Drugs. Shall I continue? So I have you around to remind me of all these things. You're welcome. So how do you feel like kind of thinking back to what your grief is feeling like or what it was feeling like and where you're at now? I mean, it's been almost two years.

SPEAKER_02 19:37

Whoa, with the two years, that's crazy. Damn, September will be two years. I feel like I've come a long way, but it fucks me up because I don't feel like I should be this far. Right. Which I tell people not to think like that all the time, but then here I am. So yeah. There's that. But because I genuinely, when I think about it and I'm like, oh, it hasn't even been two years. Right. Do you know how much has changed? I mean, you do, because you've been there for it. But like so much has changed. Good, bad, ugly, like everything in between. Right. It's crazy to think how much has changed. Friends. A family for that point. Like. Yeah. That's not even two years. Yeah. Like, what are we, a year and a half? We're in May, so a little over.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

A little over. Crazy. See what the next year brings. We'll look back on this episode in a year. Oh, yeah. And we'll see where things are at. Maybe I'll have you answer the same questions. Alright, well, for today though, that's a wrap.

SPEAKER_02 21:00

That's a wrap for the therapist and the wild card. One of us brings the therapy, and the other brings the chaos. Together, we'll be back with more laughter, healing, and everything in between.