E11: How WWII Reshaped Baseball & A Personal Look at That Cardinals Dynasty

Baseball doesn’t pause for history, even when history is at its loudest. We pick up a question that hovered over America after Pearl Harbor: should Major League Baseball keep playing during World War II, or should the season shut down? From the owners’ worry to Franklin D. Roosevelt’s famous “Green Light Letter,” we walk through how wartime baseball became part of the home-front routine, and why the league’s decision still shapes the way we talk about legacy, stats, and what sports are “for.”

Jordan Dove joins me as our resident Cardinals superfan, and his perspective turns the big story into a personal one. When more than 500 MLB players serve, rosters fracture and opportunity shows up in unexpected places. We talk about what it meant for stars like Stan Musial, Joe DiMaggio, Ted Williams, and Hank Greenberg to step away, and how those missing seasons ripple through pennant races and all-time numbers. We also hit one of my favorite corners of baseball history and trivia, including the first MLB player drafted before Pearl Harbor and a nickname that’s as brutal as it is unforgettable.

Then we zoom in on the 1940s St. Louis Cardinals dynasty: Branch Rickey’s farm system vision, Billy Southworth’s steady hand, the 1944 Trolley Series, and a style built on pitching, defense, and relentless pressure. That’s where Jordan’s family story lands, as his grandfather Augie Bergamo gets called up during the war years, wins a championship, and puts up a record-setting day at the Polo Grounds that still holds up in modern MLB conversations.

Subscribe so you don’t miss the next deep cut, share this with a baseball history friend, and leave a review if you want more wartime stories and forgotten heroes. What’s the one baseball record or family sports story you’ll never stop telling?

Email us at fungosandfastballs@gmail.com

Transcript

Cold Open And Guest Reveal

Brooke 0:00

What is that?

Jerry 0:02

Oh, this?

Brooke 0:04

Yeah, that.

Jerry 0:05

What's my new purchase? My Mariner Moose stuffed doll. He's so cute. I got him for today's mascots episode.

Brooke 0:13

Jerry, today isn't the mascot episodes. That's a future episode. Today you have guest star Jordan Dove. Don't you remember?

Jerry 0:21

Oh, oh yeah, that's right. Oh, sorry, Mr. Moose. Bye-bye. But today is a great one. Jordan joins me to discuss how World War II affected Major League Baseball, then specifically the dominating team in the 1940s, the St. Louis Cardinals, then tells personal stories of his grandfather, who was called up to the majors when players like Stan Musial enlisted. So keep listening. Hello and welcome to Fungos and Fastballs, the podcast of baseball history and trivia. I'm your host, Jerry Dynes. Let's jump into today's episode. Welcome, listener. Jerry here with a special guest joining me today, Uber Cardinals fan Jordan Dove. No, not the quarterback for the Green Bay Packers, Jordan Love. For me, that would be quite a get, but our friend Jordan Dove. Jordan, I bet that mix-up happens all the time.

Jordan Dove 1:17

It does happen all the time, ever since he came into the league. I mean, it's a letter off, and people have been not letting me hear the end of it.

Jerry 1:25

Well, you're on the mic today, which means fan favorite, my wife and producer Brooke, is not.

Brooke 1:32

Hello.....

Jerry 1:32

She's micless.

Jordan Dove 1:34

So you got big shoes to fill. That's right. That's right. But we're uh we're grateful for. Uh hopefully we can teach her a thing or two today about about baseball.

How Jordan Falls For Baseball

Jerry 1:42

Well, thank you for joining us. I'm always fascinated and ask guests about hearing how folks got into this grand sport of baseball. So so how'd the bug get you? You want to start from the beginning?

Jordan Dove 1:54

It's always just kind of been in the blood, you know, watching my baseball or watching my brother play baseball when I was younger. You know, he was he was a ball player in high school, had an amazing arm, was never a pitcher, but was in the outfield, could sling it, was a very talented defensive infielder, played shortstop, third base, and going to his games, there's a five-year difference between us. So, like I would, you know, I was young when I saw him play in high school. And because he played, he was a fan of the game. And so I became a fan of the game. No, that was one of the first sports I I like constantly kept up with, next to basketball, and then later football came around uh for me. So it was something that, you know, I loved early on, just watching him and then watching games with him. And then, as we're going to talk about later, you know, I'm I'm the grandson of a professional baseball player who played decades and decades ago. So it's just always been there, except for playing it. I've always had this really weird fear of playing baseball that I've never been able to explain. I and I played sports growing up. That one was always the one I couldn't explain. I just like it's a game where you can't make mistakes, really. They even count it against you. They're called errors, you know. So I'm I'm good to watch it, you know, but not play it.

Jerry 3:11

I think the more you you hold baseball up, I I idolize the sport, and you're right. You almost you you not only don't want to let your teammates down, it's almost like you're letting the sports down. The sport itself doesn't. Right.

Jordan Dove 3:23

Right, right. There's there's something romantic about the game, as they always say. Exactly. You know, it's like, why would I want to just ruin that?

World War II Changes The Rosters

Jerry 3:30

Well, I first met Jordan of all places, with both of us acting, uh, well, him acting and me participating in a in a Christmas play. So, you know, naturally, what do you do offseason at a Christmas play? You talk about baseball, and uh, as we're gonna get into, he told me a story about his grandfather, and I said to myself, well, we got to get him on this show. And more about his grandfather later, but his story takes us back to World War II and specifically baseball and how World War II affected the game. Fans of the 1992 movie A League of Their Own know about the formation of the All-American Girls Professional Baseball League. We're gonna do a podcast on that one in the future in our ever-expanding list of potential topics, but but Major League Baseball continued through the war. Jordan, if you you know through uh through your grandfather's history about how baseball was affected there.

Jordan Dove 4:27

I I do. I do. A lot of these big players, you know, they weren't they weren't different from the average citizen. They had to go serve, right? They had to go overseas and serve.

Jerry 4:36

Yeah. Over over 500 Major League Baseball players served at some point in the war.

FDR’s Green Light For Baseball

Jordan Dove 4:41

There you go. And and what's gonna happen to Major League Baseball? Is it just gonna shut down? No, it's gonna keep going. So through that, you have a lot of these these, you know, smaller players come up and and fill the shoes of of some of these greats, which we're gonna talk about later, you know, DiMaggio and and you know, slaughter and people like that. And there's never ever been a time like it since then.

Jerry 5:08

And there was a a a real trepidation, I think, among owners about should baseball continue after Pearl Harbor. In fact, in World War I, you know, I mean America was only in it 1918, basically. But the owners at that time tried to get draft exemptions from their players, and I think had a bit of a black eye through the public. And so Commissioner Kenesaw Mountain Landis reached out to Franklin Delano Roosevelt in the early 40s and said, you know, what do you think, Mr. President? Should should we continue this game? And and FDR had his famous green light letter at that time. And he said, quote, I honestly feel that it would be best for the country to keep baseball going. In fact, an April 1942 Gallup poll said 66% of Americans favored baseball continuing during the wars. America's pastime.

Jordan Dove 6:07

Yeah.

Jerry 6:08

Exactly. More than 500 Major League players enlisted during the wartime, and and some big players that were essential to teams. Ted Williams up in Boston, Joe DiMaggio with the Yankees, Hank Greenberg, Stan Musial with the Cardinals. Again, we're going to talk about that later. Future players like Yogi Berra, they all served in various capacities, some for just a season, some for multiple seasons, affecting not only their teams, the financial impact of the teams, but also their future stats coming back older. All 16 major league teams that went into the war did make it out, which is unfortunately more than we can say about minor league teams who also lost a great group of players to the war, and a lot of minor league teams folded.

Jordan Dove 7:00

You you wonder too, with a player like Ted Williams, you know, what what we lost in those years from a baseball perspective. You know, obviously, you know, as as an American and as someone, you know, who comes from a military family, uh, you're obviously grateful, you know, for the service and things like that. From but from a baseball fan's point of view, it's like you all you sometimes wonder what more, what more could somebody like a Ted Williams could have done in those years? Their stats would have been crazy.

Jerry 7:30

I mean, uh DiMaggio, three years in the service. Uh, Ted Williams served in both World War II and then took some years off for the Korean War. So I think I think his home run and his stats would would really be up to up at the top.

The Unluckiest Nickname In MLB

Jordan Dove 7:44

Now now Ted Williams, just off the top of my head, didn't he leave right after having the the 400 batting average? I'm I'm pretty sure that's what happened. And so it's like he was it seemed like he was just getting started and then he had to go, you know? And nobody's done that since. Exactly right.

Jerry 8:03

Well, before we get into the team of that era, the Cardinals, where your grandfather played, I I want to drop this one trivia fact because look, baseball people love trivia. I'm a baseball wonk here as far as trivia. And I learned about the first major league baseball player drafted in March 1941. This was before Pearl Harbor. The first fellow was a guy in the Phillies. He was a pitcher called Hugh Mulcahy. But one of the most interesting nicknames, and baseball has a lot of them, his nickname was Hugh Losing Pitcher Mulcahy. Oh my goodness. Imagine having that nickname. Hey, here comes Losing Pitcher Mulcahy.

Jordan Dove 8:48

I want to look up his record now. I'm curious.

The 1940s Cardinals Take Over

Jerry 8:50

He uh obviously got his nickname not by winning. He lost 20 games in 1938, 22 in 1940. Never had a full season where he had more wins than losses. Poor guy. I um uh we don't get to choose our nicknames, unfortunately. They'd be a lot more complimentary. So despite all these players, minor league teams folding, people wanted to go see baseball, and major league baseball did soldier on. And so I want to turn the focus to a team that was lights out during the World War II era, and that is the St. Louis Cardinals. They won the National League pennant in 42, 1943, 1944. They'd win three World Series titles between 42 and 1946, the year after the war. And and Jordan, that's where your grandfather's story comes in. And feel free to chat about the Cardinals and then morph into your grandfather's story.

Jordan Dove 9:38

Oh, I'd love to. Yeah, so I I'm a Cardinals fan, mainly because of my grandfather's time with them, which was long, long, long, long before I was born. And unfortunately, I never I never met him. He he had cancer and died in the in the 70s. But yes, the the Cardinals truly started to become the Cardinals in like the 1930s and 1940s. And then in the 1940s you have this really revolutionary look at at the farm system at the time. So you think about it and it's like, okay, winning championships during a time when okay, wartime players, you know, were were there, you know, like my grandfather and so many others. But it's not that uh uh weird when you look at it in the sense that our executive at the time, uh Branch Rickey, he was all he was already, you know, looking into farm systems and and being affiliated with minor league teams at this time and had so many players at his disposal, and uh it was really not the norm of the day to do something like this. And so at a time when a lot of teams players were being lost to service, he was prepared. He was bringing guys up and and and there was no problem there.

Jerry 11:00

So the Cardinals at this time and listeners just listeners may recommend recognize the name Branch Ricky from his time with the Dodgers as general manager and his role in bringing Jackie Robinson into the league. Yes. But he was, he was general manager of the Cardinals until 1942. 1942 was his last year with the Cardinals that championship season before going to Brooklyn.

Jordan Dove 11:22

Right, right. And so when you look at it in that context, you look at it as like, okay, the you know, the Cardinals were equipped and they were ready. It this dynasty also begins with a great hire in manager Billy Southworth in 1940. The 1940 Cardinals, if you look them up, three managers, including including Mr. Southworth, in that season, I think they only won you know just short of 90 games, a really mediocre team. 1941 comes along. He has and oh well, let me say something else about him too. This was a guy who had who was associated with the Cardinals before the very first championship team in 1926. He was a big contributor of that team as a player, and I believe they they beat your New York Yankees in that in that series, if I'm not if I'm not mistaken. So he had to be surprised. Which year was that? 1926. 1926. So he had ties to the team already. But anyway, let's fast forward back to 1941. He gets he gets full control of the team. 1941, you have him and his first full year as a manager, and you have Stan Musial. And do we even need to talk about Stan the Man? I mean, perhaps the great the greatest cardinal to ever play. You can you can call me a Cardinals Homer with what I'm about to say. I would say amongst MLB players all the time, he's a little underrated. I don't think he gets as much appreciation as he should. If anyone should understand, you know, the appreciation he should get, they should watch interviews with Mickey Mantle because Mickey Mantle always, always said that he was the better player, that Musial was the more complete player and the more durable player. But in 1941, Musial makes his debut and they're off and running. Lose a very, very tight race to the Brooklyn Dodgers. I think they they lost by like two and a half games. And then after that, they they run off three straight years of 100 win seasons, and they won a title in 42 and lose lose a World Series to the Yankees in 43.

Jerry 13:29

Yeah, well they had beaten the Yankees in 42. They did. And then you're right, they lost the Yankees, came back and beat them in 43. And I had you're right. Stan, this was the year after Pearl Harbor, our declaration to go into the war in 41. But but they still had a lot of their big players, they still had Musial.

Jordan Dove 13:47

And in that 42 series, I don't think I'd realize this. That was Joe DiMaggio's only World Series loss. He was 9-1. Right. Does not get talked about enough. That is a a very legendary GOAT stat. His only loss in the World Series, 43 of the Yankees win. 44 is the only time in history to St. Louis teams. You have the trolley series, right? Because you have the St. Louis Browns. Yes.

Jerry 14:18

Back then with the St. Louis Browns against the Cardinals.

Jordan Dove 14:21

Yes. Browns and Cardinals play in 1944. Great series that went six games. 1945, no Enos Slaughter, no Stan Musial, still just barely come up short in the pennant race to the Chicago Cubs by three games. 1946, war is over, everybody's back, we won another world title, and the dynasty is complete there. And it is a run of excellence that interestingly enough, was not run by power hitting. If you look at the stats and if you if you look at the players that played at that time, power hitting was not the norm of that team. The norm of that team was, well, first of all, great defense and great pitching. And Sportsman's Park was a very pitcher-friendly park. But the hitting was very like let's hit for average, let's steal bases, and let's play the game that way, and constantly have the other team thinking. And that was the brilliance of that team. What I've always thought about is and we can and I hope we can talk about this team in another show, but the 1980s uh Whitey Herzog Cardinals teams, that was their style of play. So these were the these were the 80s Cardinals before the 80s. Oh, I would love to.

Jerry 15:42

I would love that. I would love that. But you should see this list.

Jordan Dove 15:44

It's like an Encyclopedia Britannic of possible future topics. But these guys were the 80s Cardinals before the 80s Cardinals. Right. You know, there was there was a this string of excellence not dominated by power hitting. And I I think it's just I think they were fantastic.

Stan Musial’s War Years Shift

Augie Bergamo Gets The Call

Jerry 15:59

Well, and you mentioned the only year from 42 to 46 that the Cardinals were not in the World Series was that 45. And and they lost their outfielders. I mean, Musial was uh in World War II. Harry the Hat Walker on the other side of the outfield uh was also was also in the military. He got a purple heart and a bronze star. Musial went to the Navy. And despite all those losses, just three games short of the penalty. Just three shorts. Three games short. Yeah. So and you know, interesting about Musial, you mentioned the home run hitting that would change. They were kind of more small ball, you know, just getting on base in that era. Musial doesn't see combat, but he goes to Pearl Harbor in uh 45 at the naval base there. And they have a baseball league. I think it was like eight teams, and it's a baseball league in Pearl Harbor. Now imagine being on the opposite team, you know, oh yeah, you know, teams got Musil. You're you don't have anyone on your team. I'm sure there were other professional baseball players there too. Playing against an MVP. But but his his his teammates in Pearl Harbor, because people would come and see these games, really encouraged Stan at that time to hit more home runs. It was more exciting to viewers during this World War II era. You know, people are coming to Hawaii. You know, come on. And apparently after that, it kind of changed his game a little bit. He became much more of a home runner hitter after World War II. But let's go to that period in the late 40s when Musial and other outfield Harry Walker are in the military, and this leaves opportunities for other players who are still at home from the minor leagues, including your grandfather.

Jordan Dove 17:44

Yeah. So in 1944, he was called up. He was playing for the Columbus Redbirds at the time. And I'll give a little bit of backstory to my grandfather really quick, too. So he he is actually a he was actually a first generation American. So my my great-grandparents, his parents were from Sicily, and they came here and eventually made their way to Detroit, Michigan. And the way my the way my mother tells it, he was always just very, very athletic. The stories he would tell her, he wasn't the tallest guy. I mean, he's around my height, he's like five foot nine, but he was quick, and he was very athletic and excelled in a lot of different sports, and baseball was the one that he gravitated towards. So eventually he made his way to the minor leagues and with the Columbus Redbirds, who were the affiliate of the Cardinals at the time. And yeah, he was he was one of the many one of the many players that were brought up when the war broke out.

Jerry 18:36

And that was your your grandfather was Augie?

Jordan Dove 18:39

Augie Brigamo. Augie Bergamo. Augie Bergamo, that was his name. And he played outfield, had had a lot of playing time in the in the 1944 World Series against the St. Louis Browns, and was the only team in that time period he was part of that that won, the only championship team he was part of.

Jerry 18:56

He was 4F, physically unable to serve, is that right?

Jordan Dove 18:59

That's actually right. Very impressive, you know that. And yeah, and he he excelled with the time he was given. They won the World Series in 1944. There's a video I could show you after the podcast of them celebrating the locker room, and he's right there, you know, with everyone celebrating. But 1945 comes around, you know, that's the year obviously they don't make it back. But I have to give you the stat, and I have to, and I have to tell the audience the stat. He got a lot more playing time, you know, this year. Fourth of July, 1945, polo grounds against the New York Giants, eight RBIs in the leadoff spot. He goes five for six. This is still a record held to this day in Major League Baseball that is shared. He's not the only one, right? But players like Mookie Betts share this record with my grandfather and uh and countless others too. The people who don't know baseball, that is a hard thing to do with the leadoff position to have eight RBIs. That is very tough. And you and I know the history of the polo grounds, you know, the the dimensions don't really make much sense. But he had a great year in 1945.

Jerry 20:06

He had a terrific year. 286. He batted 286 over 80 games. And as you said, he was in that 44 trolley series, that World Series. Overall, I think in the series, he was zero for five, but he did hit an RBI grounder that brought in the Cardinals first run in the third game.

Family Photos And Athletic Legacy

Jordan Dove 20:26

There's no video or anything, but I could I could bring in pictures we have. We have his World Series ring, you know, back home, all those things, but uh pictures, you know, like there's this one that we have that I have that I can think of. We need some pictures.

Jerry 20:39

We'll post we'll post them on Instagram.

Jordan Dove 20:41

We have this frame of him of like his of what would be his baseball card photo. So everybody knows that. Like every if you look that up, you could see that photo. But there are other photos we have. One that comes to mind in in Cardinals fans, this is a beloved Cardinal, but Red Schoendienst. There's a there's a picture of them too. It's candid. And they are they are out in the I guess near the dugout, and my my grandfather's pointing out somewhere, he's got this big grin on his face, and Red's kind of looking off with him, but it's a candid photo. We have another photo too, and this kind of touches on another thing I want to talk about about him, but he used to, after his retirement, he used to play every year in MLB golf tournaments. Okay. A lot of like ML former MLB players would come back around for these tournaments and they'd, you know, they'd they'd play, you know, for like a prize and everything. Well, I think it was in Miami, Florida. It was long after he retired, but he went down one year and he won. And we have a picture of him framed of him holding a big the the the the like prize or whatever. It was this this big nice T set, and he's holding it and he's smiling, and it's like the newspaper shot of him. So he's a big golfer too. He was just very athletic. But in 1945, Musial, some others come back and And then he's back in the minors. Until nineteen fifty one when he he hangs it up. He was in his mid to late thirties at the time, and and then that was it. But it's super special. Super special.

Jerry 22:12

It's something I can uh it is special and and talk about reading about the minor leagues. I just finished John Feinstein's Where Nobody Knows Your Name and and those moments when you come up from the minors, even just for a season or two, are just I mean so magical to the players and he must have been very excited. Yeah. In the in the in the spirit of the recent film Marty Supreme, I understand he was also a a championship table tennis player. Yes. Yes.

Jordan Dove 22:40

Like I said before American. When he excelled in all sports, I'm telling you, all sports.

Jerry 22:47

That sounds like another podcast in itself.

Jordan Dove 22:50

A very athletic man. And what just one more thing I want to say to any listener, look, please listen to the song Van Lingle Mungo by Dave Frishburg. Okay, Van Lingle Mungo, who baseball nuts will know, was a former player. The song, the lyrics are only baseball players' names from that era. Right. Okay, I'm talking 50s, 40s, 30s. And what Frishberg did took all these players, anyone you could think of, and if it flowed, he put it in his lyrics. Look up Van Lingle Mungo, Augie Bergamo's name. Is in that song he sang. And he sings Bergamo. He sings Augie Bergamo. It's kind of weird to hear, but he's in there. He's in there. Van Lingel Mungo, Dave Frishberg.

Book Pick And Closing Thanks

Jerry 23:33

That is a great story. We'll have to post that link as well. So I we could go on forever about especially the game during World War II. And there's a great book by John Klima, The Game Must Go On. Hank Greenberg, Pete Gray, and the great days of baseball in the home front of World War II came out in 2015. You can check it out. But uh great stories. Uh thank you, Jordan, for sharing this about your grandfather and your love of baseball. Uh thanks always to you for joining us today. Uh, I especially want to thank Logan down at the driving range, who assured me he'd be listening today. Hope you enjoyed. Hope you'll keep listening, and don't forget to like us and subscribe on your podcast platform. This is Jerry Dynes and Fungos and Fastballs.