E15: Mr. Padre Tony Gwynn & No Pepper Explained

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Transcript

Collecting Baseball Trinkets

Jerry 0:00

Doing this podcast for the past two months has unlocked, unleashed my tendency to collect various trinkets, brickabrac, tchotchkis. Brooks getting concerned. I've got my Mariner Moose, my Vita Blue Sports Illustrated issue.

Brooke 0:15

You've got, let's see, a Rally Monkey, oh wait, a used beer can.

Jerry 0:20

Yeah, I'm I'm actually very proud of this. I picked this up this weekend in antique shop. It's uh Hudepole, Cincinnati beer brand, and this celebrates the 75 World Series Reds.

Brooke 0:33

Not to mention you have up there, let's see, I see a Charlie Brown, baseball Charlie Brown, two bobbleheads.

Jerry 0:41

I bought one for you too.

Brooke 0:42

Oh, that's true. That's true.

Jerry 0:44

But when I learned about no pepper signs at ballparks, I had to get me one. One does not simply walk into Mordor. I mean, uh, one does not simply walk into a ballpark. I don't even know if many still have them, but people don't look kindly on people donning ski masks in the middle of the night and start lifting signs. So I had my no pepper side made. Thank you, Etsy. No, it's not a kitchen sign, cautioning you to not overseason your food. I'm not really a big pepper fan in food. It kind of makes me sneeze. You do have to watch putting too much pepper in your paprikash.

Brooke 1:24

But I would be proud to partake of your pecan pie. Pecan pie. Pecan pie.

What No Pepper Signs Mean

Jerry 1:30

Great movie. Harry Met Sally. No doubt. But I think my my paprikash actually sounded a bit Irish. So, what is pepper when it comes to baseball? Over a century ago, it simply meant energy, like pep. When a baseball has a little extra zip, I remember watching a Bugs Bunny cartoon saying, Oh, that's the old pepper right there. But it later became the name of a popular training drill, originally called High Low. Players line up about 10 to 20 feet from a batter, a single batter, and they would toss the ball to the batter, each of them, and then the batter hits bunts or grounders to each of the people on the line, and they try and field it. If they happen to catch a fly ball or the batter whiffs, the next guy on the line moves up and he's the batter.

Brooke 2:18

Now, as opposed to a fungo drill, which is someone just taking a hit.

Padres Fandom And Underdog Teams

Jerry 2:21

Fungo drill, as we explained in our first episode. People who know fungo, it's just tossing the ball up and hitting it, and that's another type of drill. But but pepper is with the fielders very close together. And so because of that, sometimes, you know, there was a lot of concerns. Maybe these short, quick balls would hit fans in the stands. Or, you know, if you're hitting down into the ground, you're tearing up the same part of the field. So if people did it before games or at rain delays or something like that, between double headers, you kind of tear up local fields, and the groundskeepers are not too keen on that. So hence, no pepper signs started going up at ballparks. So if you're going to with your buds to the ballpark, look for the no pepper sign. And if there's none there, then have at it. Hello and welcome to Fungos and Fastballs, the podcast of baseball history and trivia. I'm your host, Jerry Dynes. Let's jump into today's episode. Well, the San Diego Padres, on my hat today, are one of those teams that I root for. I think there's four classes of teams, though. There's the ones you really root for, you're that you're a big fan of. Certainly the ones you root against. There's the teams you kind of almost forget about. You know, if you have a minute to write 30 MLB baseball teams down, sometimes one or two might get off your list. I don't want to alienate viewers. I tend to forget about some teams like the Marlins or the Angels. You keep watching those Marlins and Angels fans. Finally, there are teams that you don't root actively for, but you know, you hope for. You wish them well.

Brooke 4:18

Yeah, the issue is when your team that you love plays the team that you wish well for, you're like, well, I don't want them to lose, but this is my team.

Jerry 4:27

No, I mean you always root for the team you love. So, as for other teams, at least outside my uh team's division, I tend to root for underdogs, historical teams, those who have great long histories, but haven't tasted glory in ages. And I always find myself kind of hoping they have good seasons, like teams like the Pirates and Reds, which were just fantastic teams when I was a boy in the 1970s, but haven't sniffed greatness in a while. Yeah, the Padres are one of those teams. They've been around 57 years. They came into the league with the expansion in 1969. We discussed that last week on our Seattle Pilots episode. Uh, they've never won a World Series. They got to the big show twice in 84, losing to the Tigers, and of course 98 getting swept by the Yankees. Lately, they seem to be a team always in the mix. A couple of wild card spots over the past couple of years, but they just seem to miss the mark. They're kind of cursed recently by being in the same division as the Dodgers dynasty that we're dealing with now.

Brooke 5:26

Yeah, in January, when we were in San Diego for a wedding of our friend, we went to the stadium fan day before the season started. And I'll tell you, those were a lot of dark brown jerseys, but one thing in common was the name on the back of them.

Why Tony Gwynn Stands Out

Jerry 5:42

Machado. No, no. There were a lot of Manny Machado jerseys. But Gwynn, and that is the focus of today's episode. We're going to focus a bit on the Padres, specifically Mr. Padre, a man who played his entire 20-year career in San Diego and played in both Padres World Series appearances. I'm talking about Tony Gwyn, uh, from my money, one of the best, greatest pure hitters in my lifetime. Ted Williams, arguably the greatest hitter ever. We'll get to him later. I uh I certainly hope he's in our notebook of future episodes. See you. You do a couple on Ted. And we've we've even talked about him before in the World War II episode. Now, I'm not talking about power hitters here, your Ruth's, your Bonds, Bondd's, Bonds', Bondses, or your Aaron Judges. We're talking pure hitters, those who wait for the right pitch, uh, high batting batting average, disciplined plate appearances, uh, consistency and ball placement like Wade Boggs. He's coming up. We're gonna be doing an episode on him soon. Yep Rod Carew, Ishiro, great pure hitters, and Tony Gwynn, arguably the greatest. Uh, don't take my word for it as an amateur podcaster with the love of the game. Let's hear from his contemporaries. Got a few quotes here. A Hall of Famer pitcher Greg Maddux called Gwynn, quote, the best pure hitter, period. He faced Tony Gwynn over a hundred times, never struck him out.

Brooke 7:07

I was looking at some video, and I actually posted a reel on Instagram of pitcher John Schmoltz.

Jerry 7:14

Schmaltz, yeah.

Brooke 7:15

And he was being interviewed, and he said along with Maddux, Pedro Martinez, and Galvin. Tom Glavine. Glavine, sorry, Glavine, that the four of them together probably pitched to him well over 300 times to Tony Gwynn. And out of all of those times, all four of them have a total strikeout record, I guess, right? Strikeout rate of three.

Jerry 7:40

They struck him out only three times. And that's a murderer's row there that you just mentioned of Hall of Fame pitchers.

Brooke 7:46

It's amazing. Look at our Instagram reel.

Batting Titles And Hitting Greats

Two-Sport Roots And Draft Day

Jerry 7:49

Well, I I had mentioned Barry Bonds earlier. He once referred to Gwynn as the best hitter of my generation. Bonds quite the hitter himself, obviously. That's how contemporaries felt about Tony Gwynn. Such a wonderful hitter, great swing. In fact, he's such a great hitter that the award for National League batting title, which is the award given to the season's highest batting average in each league, is named the Tony Gwynn National League Batting Championship. It makes sense because Gwynn himself won eight National League batting titles. Trivia alert. You know who the American League batting champion is named after? I hope you're not asking me. It's a rhetorical question. I mentioned him above, Rod Carew, the great Minnesota twin and angel. Back to Gwynn. His eight titles are a National League record tied with Honus Wagner. The league record, and of course the American League record, is Ty Cobb with 12. So eight times in career, in his career, Tony Gwynn led the National League in batting average. How impressive is that? Well, Aaron Judge, awesome player. He just got his first batting title last year in 2025 with a 331 average. Barry Bonds, the most MVPs ever. A killer player, only two batting titles. Willie Mays, in the running for greatest player ever, a complete five-tool player, only one batting title in 1954. And Gwynn has eight. That's just it's amazing. Incredible. That's why we're doing today's episode. So a little history on Mr. Padre. He was not born in San Diego, but a little north in Los Angeles. He played basketball and baseball in high school. He actually considered focusing purely on basketball in his senior year in high school, but his mom convinced him to continue baseball as well. He got an offer to play basketball in San Diego State, Go Aztecs. He still has the record there for most single season and career assists. But in fact, his basketball coach was hesitant to let him play both sports. And as a freshman, he did not play baseball. The San Diego State baseball coach was very persistent trying to get him to play. And Tony would wind up playing both sports and be named an All-American outfielder in his last two seasons in college, last two years in college. When Gwynn returned, fast forward. Fast forward. He returned to San Diego State after his retirement from the MLB to coach, coach the Aztecs baseball team. The stadium had at that point been named after him. I'm not as humble a listener as Gwyn. If I had worked in a place in honor of me, I'd be insufferable. It would be totally go to my head.

Brooke 10:29

You'd be impossible to live with. Impossible.

Jerry 10:32

I say we can we should rename the clinic I work at.

Brooke 10:34

No.

Jerry 10:36

I'll talk to the CEO. His athleticism led to him being drafted on the same day in 1981 by both the San Diego Padres and in the NBA, the San Diego Clippers, who, you know, that team was in San Diego before they moved to LA in 84.

Brooke 10:53

All right. We're doing baseball trivia. No basketball trivia.

Jerry 10:58

It's Tony Gwynn trivia. It's Tony Gwynn trivia.

Brooke 11:00

Drawing the line.

Jerry 11:02

Well, as we know, he went with the Padres. I always love alternative history or metaverse trains of thought and imagine a world where there's no Tony Gwynn in baseball and he's he's playing basketball with the Clippers instead. But I wouldn't like that because I'm a baseball guy. Well, after a year in the minors, Gwynn gets called up, but has some wrist injuries in his first couple of seasons and had a bit of a hitting slump, as average was down to 229. And then Gwynn started doing something that was fairly new and far from widespread at the time. No listeners, don't say steroids. It was that era. He was Gwynn was always very vocal about his opposition to PEDs, and yet he thrived in an era where steroids were becoming prominent. Opposed to many players that era who magically got leaner and bulkier as they aged, Gwynn actually got chubby and rounder, and yet his game stayed consistent as he uh aged later in his career. He batted over 300 for 19 straight seasons and over 350 for four of his last eight years. Even in the last couple of years, limited play injury injuries affected him. He hit over 320 both years.

Brooke 12:15

Whoo Nellie! You mentioned that he had a hitting slump, but you didn't tell us how he got out of it.

Jerry 12:22

Oh, yeah. I got off on a bit of a fanboy tangent there. He started taping uh with the help of his wife, the love of his life, who he met at age 10. He started taping and analyzing his swing initially on Betamaxes. Remember those listeners?

Brooke 12:37

I remember my Betamax.

Jerry 12:38

Oh, wait, I'm dating myself. Hopefully, we're going for a younger, younger demographic. If they don't know what we're talking about. Now, a common and essential part of baseball, that at that time only scouts really watched tapes, players really didn't do it. And Gwynn was kind of a trailblazer. He obsessed over watching the swing dynamics on film. So much the team's teammates called him Captain Video, which is a reference to an old 1950s sci-fi TV show. Unlike Betablock, uh unlike Betamax's, I am not old enough to remember Captain Video. Bruce Bochy, Gwynn's teammate and future manager, joked that Gwynn was, quote, relentless with the study. In fact, we lost him as a poker player because of video.

Brooke 13:24

He was watching video instead. I read that he was the first to arrive at the stadium many times before even the sun was up just to watch tapes.

1984 Breakout And Lineup Context

Jerry 13:33

And the results of Gwynn's uh tape watching was immediate. In his first full season playing after those injury years, 1984, he got his first All-Star selection, and that was the first of 15 selections. He won his first batting title and helped lead the Padres to their first World Series. That was a team that included reliever Goose Gossage and third baseman Greg Nettles, who had just come over for the Yankees, and speedster Alan Wiggins, who batted ahead of Gwynn. Hey, we mentioned Bruce Bochy in our Mendoza line podcast, Nettles and Gossage, in the 1978 Yanks Red Sox tiebreaker episode. We're starting to get six degrees of fungos and fastballs here.

Brooke 14:12

I'm going to need to make one of those big posters like the conspiracy theories have with the pins and the thread attaching different players from one to the other. Exactly. Exactly. We'll put it up on the wall.

MVP Debates And The 1994 Strike

Jerry 14:22

Well, the word about Wiggins, who battled batted before Gwynn in the lineup that year, it really helped Tony's stats tremendously. Wiggins was a speedster. He was a constant threat to steel bases. And when he got on base ahead of Gwynn, pitchers really had to pitch more fastballs to Gwyns. They didn't want to take chances with breaking balls, possibility of past pitches, you know, past uh past balls and uh wild pitches. And, you know, Gwynn, unfortunately for his opponents, was ready for those fastballs. Well, the Padres would lose that 84 series to the Detroit Tigers in five games, but after such a tremendous year, Gwynn signed a six-year extension with the Padres at $4.6 million. It should be noted that several times in his career, Gwynn could have left San Diego as a free agent for a lot more money. He never wanted to. He and his family loved San Diego, and they loved him. Well, despite that great year in '84, Gwynn did not win the National League MVP. That award would go to Ryan Sandberg with the Cubs.

Brooke 15:27

And we're recording next weekend an episode on Ryan Sandberg.

Ted Williams Mentors Tony Gwynn

Jerry 15:31

It's that six degrees. Stay tuned, coming up. Nor would Gwynn win the MVP in his 1994 season when he hit an amazing 394. Bagwell hit 368. More power numbers, which was a lot what a lot of MVP voters were looking for in that day in the 90s. Bagwell had 39 homers, 116 RBIs, impressive numbers. But what was even more shocking was that Gwynn finished seventh in the MVP voting that year. You know, that 394, that is the closest anyone has gotten to that elusive 400 season that Ted Williams achieved last in 1941. No one's gotten closer since. The tough thing about that year is that Gwynn was so close, and the season was prematurely ended by the strike. And asked multiple times, Gwynn was always confident uh that he would have gotten to 400 that season had it not ended. Amazing. Now, an episode with on Gwynn would not be complete without mentioning his relationship and friendship with that great Ted Williams, who even a Yankees fan like me would probably place as the greatest pure hitter of all time, certainly on the Mount Rushmore of hitters. Throughout the 40s and 50s, Williams was a quintessential student of hitting and eventually wrote a 1971 book, The Science of Hitting, which was a book that Gwynn studied. These two greats would meet at the 1992 All-Star Game held in San Diego. Williams himself was a son of San Diego, and uh Ted got his start in 1936, before the Red Sa his Red Sox years, with the San Diego Padres.

Brooke 17:20

Now wait a minute. In 1936, the Padres weren't there because we just talked about them coming in '69. So, all right. Listeners, I'm gonna try this year. That must have mean he was playing for the Pacific Coast League back at that time.

Jerry 17:38

Yes, yes, the minor league. Pacific Coast League Coast League Padres, where the Padres would eventually adopt that name from. So good job.

Jerry 17:49

So Ted Williams challenged Tony to think more about hitting for power, and that's something Gwynn that did focus on later in his career. Now, if you go on YouTube, and if you're a baseball fan, I encourage you to do this. There's an interview back in the 90s where Bob Costa sat down with Gwynn and Williams side by side talking about hitting. It's a delight. Williams respected Gwynn so much as a fellow student of the game and loved him as a friend that when the 1999 All-Star game came then to Boston, there was a celebration for the All-Century team. Ted Williams was there. Now, Ted was older at the time, had had a stroke, was using the wheelchair a lot, but he was supposed to throw out the first pitch. And he had Gwynn stand with him, steadying him as he threw out the first pitch. It was a touching moment. All but the most robotic of baseball fans will get misty-eyed.

Brooke 18:43

Need tissues.

Jerry 18:46

I know I got my no pepper sign. No tissues over here.

Brooke 18:49

Just wipe it on your shirt.

Jerry 18:52

As I mentioned earlier, Gwynn would help the Padres return to their second World Series. They have not been back since. That was in 1998. But he would never win a World Series, nor would he win an MVP. But with eight batting titles, seven Silver Slugger Awards, and five Gold Glove Awards, some may forget what a tremendous defensive right fielder he was.

Brooke 19:26

Golden Gloves Gloves. Gold Gloves. Gold Gloves. Gold Gloves. No words. Gold Glove. Whatever year. And it just was fascinating to see, you know, Gwyn, Gwyn. One year he didn't get it, but Gwynn, Gwynn, Gwynn, Gwynn, Gwynn. It was pretty, it was very impressive.

Jerry 19:40

It is. He he he was tremendously impressive. And with those great stats and awards, he would be elected to the Hall of Fame, first ballot, 2007, his first year of eligibility with 97.6% of the vote.

Brooke 19:53

Yeah, no surprise. I I was watching a video when they called him. The baseball hall of fame called him, and he he just broke down crying. His wife came over and hugged him. And it was it was really a very touching moment to see the humility that he had in that in that moment. It's a beautiful, beautiful thing.

Tobacco Warning And Lasting Legacy

Jerry 20:10

What's incredible about that humility is he he actually told people he wasn't sure that they would call. He didn't think he was going to get in on the first ballot. Everybody else knew, though. Sadly, a longtime user of chewing tobacco, Gwynn would pass away far too early in 2014 at age 54. This is four years after being diagnosed with salivary gland cancer. Now, before he died, he appeared in a video addressed to baseball players, both minor and major leagues, urging players not to use smokeless tobacco. He couldn't even speak due to his illness, but the impact of the video just appearing there and of Gwynn's passing did lead to a ban of smokeless tobacco in 2016 throughout Major League Baseball. But it's Gwynn's wonderful personality, his kind heart, his generosity, who's the winner of the Roberto Clemente Award, another award, and his love of San Diego, as well as his infectious laugh that should be remembered, what makes him a favorite of mine. I watched the MLB TV documentary. It's on YouTube also called Mr. Padre. San Diego announcer Ted Leitner said he saved Gwynn's laugh on his cell phone so he could still play it from time to time. Yeah. Hopefully you know this laugh or have heard it. If not, get on YouTube, watch some videos. It'll be hard to find one where he's not laughing.

Brooke 21:26

Yeah. His story is so touching. I was watching a YouTube documentary also on the 84 Padres, which was well, let's just say that the morality sc scale of that team not very high. And they were the man was going over all of the different players. And when they got to Tony Gwynn, he said, And Tony Gwynn, well, he was just a nice guy. So it it just really goes to show that you can avoid all of the stuff going on and still really be a kind person and and focus on On your game. He wasn't a show-off. He was a humble guy. He loved his wife and kids when you watch all of his videos. And he found joy with his teammates. There are people that came after him, players that came after him, that would talk about how they were in awe to meet him. And he was just so sweet and he'd help them in any way he could. He was just a mentor to anyone who needed it. Just a really, really fabulous man, a true baseball hero.

Jerry 22:25

He he he truly was. I mean, you can hear those testimonies. I saw one with John Kruk, who was his teammate on the Padres before Kruk went to the the Phillies, and he told him how he would introduce him to watching tape, something that Kruk thought was ridiculous at the time, but eventually adopted himself. And yeah, absolutely.

Brooke 22:44

Yeah, and and the pitchers will say, you know, whatever we thought we could throw to him, he had such a good eye that he just could redirect it what wherever he wanted it to go, which is again, as you bring brought this up in the beginning, is so different than some of the hitters today that are just trying to hit for the fences constantly. And and that's I mean, that's a rarity being able to hit some of these balls and just precise placement.

Jerry 23:08

Well, and he was smart enough to wait for the pitch. Oh, that's true. That would get him the area, the direction he wanted.

Brooke 23:15

Exactly.

Maddux Quote And Hitting Genius

Jerry 23:16

He just was truly gifted. Yeah, gifted. And again, hard work. And hard work. You're right. You're very right. Well, to close this episode about his hitting, I want to return to pitcher Greg Maddux, who had a fantastic quote. Maddux was discussing how changing speeds and having more control are far more important than velocity, something often forgotten about today. Because no hitter can tell the exact speed of a pitch, he said. Maddux said, quote, you just can't do it. Sometimes hitters can pick up differences in spin. They can identify pitches if there are different release points, if a curveball starts in an upward hump as it leaves the pitcher's hand. But if a pitcher can change speeds, every hitter is helpless, limited by human vision. But he finished that quote with saying, Except for that bleeping Tony Gwynn. That's great. Well, on next episode on Monday, when we go over the OG mascots, a fun episode. It'll include my friend and fellow baseball player Edward Nolan. Fantasy baseball player. Yeah, fantasy baseball.

Brooke 24:18

Don't get the listeners confused that you're out there playing baseball.

Jerry 24:21

Hey, I was out there in the batting cages in St. Louis.

Brooke 24:25

Look on our TikTok.

Next Week Tease And Subscribe

Jerry 24:26

Well, we're going to spend a few minutes talking about the Major League Baseball today and our thoughts about the season so far. So I can't wait. That wraps up today's episode. Thanks always to Brooke, and uh shout out to my friend Kevin in Lexington, Massachusetts, another friend who's a Red Sox fan. That's two of my friends who are Red Sox fan. Brooke, as a Yankees guy, I am incredibly open-minded. You really are. You're an inclusive person. Well, Kevin assured me he'd be listening. And we're always happy you're listening, and I hope you'll keep listening. Don't forget to subscribe on your podcast platform. Heading back to the locker room, this is Jerry Dynes and Fungos and Fastballs.