E22: The Baseball Reliquary: A Fan’s Hall of Fame

Cooperstown tells one kind of baseball story. The Baseball Reliquary tells the one that lives in fan memory, strange artifacts, and the people who shaped the game’s lore even if they never fit a Hall of Fame template. We sit down with Joe Price, Professor Emeritus and co-director of the Institute for Baseball Studies at Whittier College, to explore how an “alternate hall of fame” can honor impact, meaning, and cultural weight alongside on-field greatness. 

Joe explains what a reliquary is and why the word belongs in baseball, then takes us inside the collection now housed at Whittier: a grassroots museum and archive built from donations, obsession, and love. We get into unforgettable pieces of baseball memorabilia, from perfect game baseballs signed across eras to a one-of-a-kind Tommy John surgery textbook signed by Tommy John on the very page that diagrams the procedure. Along the way, we talk about Joe’s National Anthem Tour and what it reveals about baseball as tradition, ritual, and community. 

Then we break down the Shrine of the Eternals, the Reliquary’s fan voted hall that celebrates cultural significance, barrier breakers, and enduring stories, not just career totals. If you’ve ever argued about who really matters to baseball history, this will sharpen your list and probably scramble it too. Subscribe, share this with a baseball friend, and leave us a review with your pick for who belongs in the Shrine next.

Email us at fungosandfastballs@gmail.com

Transcript

The Dream Of An Alternate Hall

Jerry 0:00

Well, listener, a personal goal when starting Fungos and Fastballs, our podcast here, was to eventually have an episode on every Hall of Famer in Cooperstown. And yet, even early on, we find ourselves gravitating to episodes of tremendous figures in baseball like Vida Blue and Marvelous Marv Throneberry, who I couldn't imagine the sport of baseball without. But wouldn't it be great if there was an institution, a sort of alternate hall of fame, where individuals would be selected not just on war and whip, but on fan support and impact to the game's lore. Well, that in mind, I am delighted to welcome today's guest, Joe Price. He is Professor Emeritus of the Department of Religious Studies and co-director for the Institute of Baseball Studies at Whittier College. And that's the home of today's topic, the baseball reliquary. Joe, thank you so much for coming on. I'm very excited to have you today.

Speaker 0:55

It's a delight to join you.

Jerry 0:58

Joe, I know you've done a lot of interviews. I've listened to some of your appearances on podcasts like uh Hallowed Ground, Midnight Library of Baseball in past years. I hope you don't get bored with some similar questions, but man, uh people really need to hear these uh stories there. I want to start with the the juxtaposition there in your intro, the Department of Religious Studies and Baseball Studies.

Where Baseball Meets Belief

Jerry 1:18

And I find that a fascinating combination, not to take time away from the reliquary, but I want to tell how that connects with you. Uh what's the Venn diagram intersect there?

Speaker 1:28

Well, I'm the son of a minister and the grandson of a minister. So uh growing up and loving baseball and being immersed in a religious culture, I had to make sense of my multiple loves by basically dealing with baseball and religion, and they're their occasional fusion and uh often confusion. But nonetheless, it's wonderful to have been able to have the freedom to explore it not only avocationally, but as part of a professional career.

Jerry 2:04

You it does, and and uh there is a lot of crossover. I certainly know a lot of LSU fans down here in Louisiana who miss church to uh to go to games, so I guess you know that's their religion. Uh and I I saw you wrote a book among your writings, Rounding the Bases: Baseball and Religion in America.

Speaker 2:21

Yeah, that one was basically a compilation of various essays that I had written and then a few that were produced specifically for the book about the multiple intersections between baseball and religion in America, from the way that uh players often affiliated with particular religious tradition and wanted to express their faithfulness as a part of their public persona, but also the House of David baseball team in the early twentieth century and its significance for basically baseball troubadours, baseball troubadours, and uh the its intersection with the Negro League teams. And then an analysis of how baseball might function as a faith for many people who uh find that it makes more sense out of their lives than other

The 100 Ballpark Anthem Tour

Speaker 3:26

seasons and rituals.

Brooke 3:29

Interesting, thank you. I was thinking, Joe, we could start a new tradition here at Fungos and Fastballs to start each day with each episode with the national anthem singing and thought maybe you might be the man.

Speaker 2 3:45

She's done a little research on you herself, Joe.

Speaker 3:49

Yeah, well, it's probably not the best. You you can find uh the probably the best rendition that's well recorded is uh the one at the San Bernardino 70 the seventh San Bernardino 66ers, Route 66. The the last of my performances on the National Anthem Tour that I did in 2011 when I sang the National Anthem at more than a hundred minor league ballparks in a single season. Single season, wow. That was probably the the one. I think there are probably a couple of major league ballpark ones that are also available, but uh the acoustics are not good here for me to probably offer one off the cuff. It would be uh in the uh in the key of uh C sharp, probably that I would sing. So we'll let that rest.

Brooke 4:50

I had to bring it up.

Jerry 4:51

Yeah. One day when our podcast gets monetized, we'll get better equipment, audio equipment, and we'll have you back on to sing.

Speaker 4:59

Sounds good.

Jerry 5:00

There's a great website, which all it is is a country, and you sing the national anthem as the website goes through each of the stadiums on the map, almost like those old movies that show the plane flying from different areas. I enjoyed that website.

Speaker 5:15

I like that. My nephew and his two daughters put up a map and put pins in the map each day when I was singing so that he could teach them basically American geography. And it was quite a project and quite fun to have seen that that map of my progress. 28,712 miles. That's incredible.

Jerry 5:41

Now uh before we get to our main topic, I do have to ask, I I heard that Bill Veck's son Mike Vec was one of the earliest people to ask you to perform was it then at Comiskey, right?

Speaker 5:54

That's right. In 1977.

Jerry 5:56

So you did not do disco demolition night. You were not. That was a little early. We had an episode on that.

Speaker 6:05

And we have one of the uh records that was uh destroyed at the disco demolition as one of the artifacts in the reliquaries holdings. But I was singing in Chicago at that point. Bill Vec had provided a an ambidextrous pitcher with a major league tryout as basically to fulfill this weird dream of an ambidextrous pitcher. And so I wrote to Bill Veeck and said, you know, fulfill my dream. I want to sing at the national anthem for a major league game. Got a call from Mike Veeck and I said, uh, so when do you want me to audition? He said, You're fool enough to ask, we're fool enough to let you do it. Uh that was, of course, before Roseanne Barr's fiasco at San Diego, but I was able to sing for Fan Appreciation Day at the end of the 1977 season. And that got me started on an unusual hobby of singing at Major League Parks, County Parks, Minor League Parks, and thus far I think it's 21 Major League Stadiums and uh 110 minor league ballparks.

Jerry 7:20

Oh man, that is fantastic. Congratulations. You gotta just a few to go to seal the deal, though.

Speaker 7:27

Yeah. Most of these Northeast I've uh failed to score.

Jerry 7:34

Plus, you'll complete it and then they'll open the Bacon Stadium. I'd try. Hello, and welcome to Fungos and Fastballs, the podcast of baseball history and trivia. I'm your host, Jerry Dynes. Let's jump into today's episode.

What A Baseball Reliquary Holds

Jerry 7:49

Well, you had mentioned the record uh uh destroyed at uh disco uh demolition night, and that is a perfect segue into talking about the baseball reliquary and well, reliquary, and you know, unless you're a Scrabble player and with the Q, that's a nice word there. Uh you might need two on the board, I think. But the word reliquary doesn't come up much. Uh I I I'm sure listeners would love you to tell us what it is from a baseball perspective. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Brooke 8:15

Well, I do want to say I think it's probably in spelling bees and takes a bunch of people down there too.

Jerry 8:19

Yeah. Can I have a word origin, please?

Speaker 8:25

It's really quite simple. A relic is, of course, something from the past, usually with great meaning. It's often associated with religious significance. There are splinters of the cross for Christians. There are a number of uh artifacts from various religious traditions that are identified as having been in touch with someone who was a saint or a religious uh a person of religious significance. And so that is called a relic. And so where are the relics kept in the relic house, which is a reliquary? So it it is not simply an invention of the baseball reliquary. It is a very fine word that is used throughout a number of religious traditions to identify where the significant mementos of faith are kept for their tradition.

Jerry 9:29

Again, that connection between religion. But but you weren't there at the very start of uh the baseball reliquary. That was back in what, 1996 or 97, I believe.

Speaker 9:39

I was not there until about uh 2007 or eight when the fortieth anniversary of the publication of Ball Four was featured as a program. And uh a couple of my colleagues and I decided to attend the event of the baseball reliquary that was featuring Jim Bouton in person. And it was a an incredibly robust affair. And we joined the reliquary at that point. It was ten years old. We were well into our love of baseball, and the we thought that you know we'd we'd attend the annual event of the Shrine of the Eternal's induction ceremony. That proved to be inspirational and fun. And we've we decided that uh we'd try to connect with the reliquary as much as possible. A few years later, the director of the reliquary approached me about the possibility that Whittier College might become a permanent location for the reliquary because or the reliquary's archives, because at that point the reliquary was basically a a peripatetic museum. It was one that moved around from library to library, from exhibit hall to exhibit hall, but had no permanent home. And that's how the how Whittier College and the baseball reliquary developed a symbiotic relationship.

Jerry 11:29

And it got its origins in the minds and drive of Terry Cannon, right? The originator.

Speaker 11:34

Terry was the founder and architect of the baseball reliquary, and he engineered, along with me and a couple of colleagues at Whittier College, he engineered the founding of the Institute for Baseball Studies.

Jerry 11:54

Very

Favorite Relics And Wild Provenance

Jerry 11:55

good. And I want to get into well, why don't we get into that now? I mean, you mentioned that initially it was gathered in various places and then now now all at Whittier. Do you have any favorite relics that have that strike you offhand?

Speaker 12:10

Of course. As a Yankees fan, I'm very partial to the uh partially eaten hot dog that was left on a train by Babe Ruth. Now then the provenance of that artifact is somewhat in question, as is the partially smoked cigar by Babe Ruth that was purportedly found in a brothel in Philadelphia where he was some kind sometimes known to have walked through the lobby. She was able to send us a collection of perfect game baseballs, baseball signed by every pitcher of a perfect game since John Richmond's in eighteen the mid-1880s. The collection begins with John Montgomery Ward's uh perfect game that was six days later, at a time when pitching was still allowed underhanded, but the perfect games extend for twenty two thereafter up until the one by the the Yankees two years, three years ago in Oakland, Domingo German. We do not have Domingo German, but we have baseball signed, of course, by Don Larsen and Sandy Koufax as in our generation probably the two most famous, but also one signed by Cy Young. Fantastic. That really is.

Brooke 14:21

This must be kept under lock and key at night, the guard walking back and forth. Those are pretty valuable, I guess.

Speaker 14:28

It we've been told that it's quite valuable. It is uh located or it it is housed, it is not on permanent display. It is brought out on rare occasions, but it is uh on display at various points, and it is in the archives of the there at Whittier College. And among that is not just uh relics from game, but but devoted fans and art pieces and I think I saw Well we have my one of my favorites is one that emerged from a response to a newspaper article. A physician orthopedic surgeon in Tacoma, Washington contacted us about uh whether we would like to have his copy of the Frank Job textbook on how to do orthopedic surgery that has illustrations of how to perform the surgeries, including that of Tommy John. Well, on one occasion when Tommy John was the visiting pitching coach for the team playing the Tacoma Rainers, the surgeon took his textbook to Tommy John, had him sign the page that shows how to do the Tommy John surgery, and then he offered us the signed copy of the book, which inspired one of our artists to do a large uh portrait of the Tommy John baseball card from the White Sox year during which he suffered the injury that required the Tommy John surgery. So one thing leads to another, and that's really the kind of grassroots growth that is so celebrated by the baseball reliquary and now is embraced by the Institute for Baseball Studies.

How The Shrine Voting Works

Jerry 16:29

And you mentioned Tommy John, Dr. Frank Jobe, and both of them are members of the Shrine of Eternals. Uh Tommy John, not in Cooperstown, but is in the Baseball Reliquary's Hall of Fame.

Speaker 16:43

Again, it's called the Shrine of the Eternals, and and uh tell us a little about that and it's different from the Hall of Fame where baseball writers elect and need a three-fourths uh majority to be able to be elected to the Hall of Fame. Each year there's a a list of candidates circulated among the members of the baseball reliquary. And from the candid from the voting that takes place for the candidates, the three who receive the highest votes, the greatest number of votes, are then elected into the Shrine of the Eternals, and they are inducted in a ceremony that is held annually to recognize them as well as a significant fan and also a significant historian of baseball, uh how the lore is kept alive.

Brooke 17:46

So we we I I think we have our one of your first inductees here.

Jerry 17:52

Well, not your first, but I'm I uh always love a Hall of Fame that has Charlie Brown. This is my St. Louis Cardinals, Charlie Brown. And Charlie Brown, though not his favorite player, Joe Shlabotnik, is in the Shrine of the Eternals.

Speaker 18:12

That that is one of my favorites. The Shrine of the Eternals does not require that someone have excelled in baseball at a professional level. Even that there are minor leaguers. Steve Dalkowski is one of the inductees. He was reputed to have thrown faster than Bob Feller or Ryan Durin. And those were days before the radars were perfected as they now are able to even identify the tenths of a mile per hour that a fastball might be thrown. But Dalkowski was the inspiration for the character in Bull Durham, Nuke LaLoosh. So he has uh had multiple effects on baseball. There are others who have not played. There are some who, let's see, Isla Borders uh played a few games as a minor league pitcher for the St. Paul Saints. Uh she is an inductee, and ironically or coincidentally, she attended Whittier College and was the first female to pitch in an NCAA game for the Whittier College Poets. There are others who have been inducted who are also not having played the game. Sports writers are among them. I love that Nancy broadcasters.

Jerry 19:48

I love that Nancy Faust, the organist for the Chicago White Sox, is in there.

Speaker 19:53

Yes, and she uh played the intro to my performance of the national anthem there at Comiskey Park in 1977. Uh she provided me with the correct key to sing it in. On the ballot this year, we have a couple of very interesting candidates, one whom I have uh strongly supported for the last 10 years while I've been a member, and that is Annie Savoy, the character in in Bull Durham, who delivers the opening monologue that is just a wonderful riff on the spiritual significance of baseball. And this year, celebrating the 50th anniversary of the premiere of Bad News Bears, the film, The Bad News Bears as a film, is a candidate for election into the Shrine of the Eternals.

Jerry 20:55

And as a huge fan of baseball movies, I definitely support the original Bad News Bears with good old Walter Matth eau there. I love that movie. I love all baseball movies, and we're going to highlight them in many of them in our podcast. Now Brooke ha Brooke had a question, because we're mentioning all these non-players or quirky players, you know, that are not in the Hall of Fame. But of course, people like Yogi Berra, Jackie Robinson are there, several prominent Negro Leagues players. What was you what were you asking?

Brooke 21:26

Well, what designates when you put someone on the ballot who is already in the Hall of Fame versus someone who's not the the Cooperstown Hall of Fame? Because I notice there are a couple, but not everybody, of course. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

Jerry 21:38

Yeah, like I don't know if Stan Musial, for example, is in there. But what what differentiates that in in the Hall of Fame the shrine of eternal voters' minds?

Speaker 21:48

We should probably put Musial on the ballot because he was able to play the harmonica so well. That's that would put him in. That uh the Hall of Famers are on the ballot is for their cultural significance for baseball. For Yogi Barra, it was for his incredible wit, unintentional wit, according to some. But for obviously for Jackie Robinson and for some of the Negro leaguers, it was for their contributions to breaking down barriers or for performing in oppressive conditions. There are others who have not been elected, who are major leaguers. Leo DeRoscher remains on the ballot, in part because of his feistiness and his willingness to uh to promote the idea that nice guys finish last. You need to have an edge to be able to win. But the the real reason that the p the Hall of Famers get on the ballot is that they have made some significant contribution to American culture or their story is unusual in ways in terms of overcoming adversity. Jim Abbott, the one armed pitcher or one-handed pitcher, was elected into the Shrine of the Eternals. Why not because he pitched a no-hitter for the Yankees, but because of his having overcome adversity, and although he is not a Hall of Famer, it really takes that kind of distinct story behind the performance that qualifies one to get on the ballot and then to be a fan favorite enough to be elected.

Jerry 24:00

Yeah, like William Hoy, the uh accomplished uh deaf Major League Baseball player. I've seen, again, there was a wonderful documentary. I you can catch it on YouTube, I think not exactly Cooperstown, I think is the name of it. And but I've seen some of the live performances you mentioned, Jim. I mean, live uh induction speeches like Doc Ellis's uh and Jim Bouton's. Any any more recent ones that come to mind? Did Bob Costa show up for his one? I saw that he said he was the only living one of that year.

Speaker 24:30

So he was. He graciously sent us about a six-minute video accepting and expressing appreciation. Kim Ng, the former general manager for the Miami Marlins and the first woman to hold such an executive position in baseball, is one of the more recent inductees, and she, like Costas, was unable to attend her induction, but was gracious in her acceptance of the award, of the recognition. Most recently, Ron LaFleur. There is the video recording of Ron LaFleur's acceptance speech in which he just breaks down in tears and expresses appreciation and then tries to basically elder fans not to take the road that he took through juvenile delinquency and prison and then recovery. And what made his uh acceptance all the more remarkable was the fact that he flew from Florida to California for his acceptance as a double amputee.

Jerry 25:55

That's incredible. That really is. Yeah, and tremendous story, as you said, when in my Jackson State Penitentiary to a uh and a major league career. It would have been a real coup if you had gotten LeVar Burton to do the introduction since he played him in a TV movie.

Speaker 26:09

We tried every angle that we could to uh secure that. But uh alas.

Cowbells Awards And Visiting Whittier

Jerry 26:16

And you have awards also for for preservation of baseball history. And I I love the the Hilda Award, named after the famous Brooklyn Dodgers fan, who, again, we're gonna do a segment on soon, uh Hilda Chester, with her her cowbell.

Speaker 26:30

Yes. So the the the the cow her cowbell inspires the opening for the induction ceremonies each year, rather than opening initially with the national anthem to precede the festivities. We open with uh cowbells ringing throughout the audience and by the MC for the day. So there's a clanging that honors Hilda at the outset.

Brooke 27:05

Yeah, the Hilda or the Tony Salin. We've got like 20 more years to go before he's deserving.

Jerry 27:10

Yeah, after after maybe I put in 20 years of preserving baseball history on podcasts.

Speaker 27:16

Uh that sounds good.

Jerry 27:19

We'll get back to the I think I would go to that ceremony just to try and hear how many more cowboy jokes there are. More cowball jokes. So you mentioned Whittier College's involvement and everything is housed. Can one visit there? Is it just mostly researchers interested in baseball history, or can you walk the Halls? J

Speaker 27:39

Oh, you can walk the halls, but you better walk the stairs. And I'll get to that.

Jerry 27:44

Okay.

Speaker 27:45

When Terry Cannon first proposed the idea that the college housed the archives of the baseball reliquary, he envisioned them being put in the archives of the college library. At that point, the then college librarian was not interested in acquiring any more bound materials or artifacts for storage. But the idea of the baseball reliquaries wanting a home had gut level appeal to me, Charles Adams and Mike McBride, my two colleagues on the faculty at Whittier College. So we appealed to the administration to allow us to form with Terry Cannon the Institute for Baseball Studies and to use a room on the third floor of the administration building that is accessible only by 42 stairs.

Jerry 28:54

That just worked out that way, or did you have to put in a couple extra stairs to match it?

Speaker 28:58

It was divinely divinely inspired, I think. But the the room is ADA inaccessible, so that it was not able to be used by the college for classroom use. And it was lined with book bookshelves. And initially, Charles Adams, Mike McBride, and I thought that we would basically create a resource center for students to study the significance of baseball in American culture. And so we combined our respective libraries with the library that the reliquary had, which brought us to about a thousand unique book or distinct books. We opened with that and with a few of the artifacts and art on display in 2014, and shortly thereafter we received a gift of 500 artifacts and memorabilia from the Negro Leagues players. A collector in Sacramento delivered those to us. We started receiving books. We're now with a library of about 5,000 distinct titles, as well as the art gallery, the artifacts, the collections that we have received of Negro Leagues and Perfect Game Memorabilia. So what started out as the desire for a resource center has become a museum of sorts as well, and it is open to the public at this point because it is staffed exclusively by retired faculty members at Whittier College who are volunteers. It is open by appointment, which we try to facilitate according to guests' schedules, but it is doesn't have regular hours at this point, although we're trying to negotiate that possibility with various various levels of support from student workers as a possibility.

Brooke 31:22

Yeah, I see.

Jerry 31:22

Dwarfed by the Trevor Burrus She's concerned when I retire and we downsize. How many members are there around?

Speaker 31:41

There are

Joining The Reliquary And Closing Picks

Speaker 31:42

historically there have been between 300 and 500 members. After COVID, some s there was some shrinkage, but typically there will be about uh 300 ballots sent out to members. And if your audience hears this before June 1st and wants to receive a ballot, they can do so by joining. And I will expedite getting them a ballot so that they can return it and have the fun of voting for any of the, I believe this year 42 or 43 candidates that will appear on the ballot.

unknown 32:23

Yeah.

Jerry 32:23

And it's only a single membership is only $25. I think a family membership $50, you get a free t-shirt. And uh guess who's got two thumbs and is a voting member? And I am and the moment I learned about the baseball reliquary, I I I think I I don't know what wormhole I was in to find it, but I I read about it, I kept reading about it, I said, I gotta join this. This is incredible.

Brooke 32:50

And yeah, I'm I'm very excited to get to go to the induction, correct?

Speaker 32:56

Oh yes. And the induction is open to the public even without membership. So it provides a fun means of outreach for Whittier College and for the reliquary to engage fans and those who are want to be fans.

Jerry 33:20

Well, again, I I don't know about this year, but I hope to come out to the ceremony, induction ceremony, and now Brooke probably I think we've convinced her. I think we've we've convinced her that this is worth vacationing. It'll allow us to continue our ballpark.

Brooke 33:35

Well, we we know someone out there. We'll just stay at Joe's house. That's right.

Speaker 33:42

The induction ceremony this year will be is scheduled for November the 8th, the Sunday, November the 8th, uh, which is the first Sunday after the completion of the World Series, so that if any of the inductees are involved in World Series or Major League Baseball's final days of the season, it will be possible for them to attend if they should be elected.

Brooke 34:12

Well, I have a question. I have a question. Before you go, since we do uh the podcast on history, who would be someone you would recommend we could do a podcast on? Fast that's fascinating. I like to get the juicy stories. Jerry loves the stats and all of that. So who would you recommend we put in our lineup for podcast?

Speaker 34:34

Hmm. Somebody who's uh had more fingers in baseball that we mentioned earlier. Mike Veck. He's been the owner of some of the minor league teams. He's been a an incredible promoter with with promotions, not quite rivaling his father's disco night, but or the Eddie Gaedel stunt there in St. Louis. But Mike Veck has a history of involvement in baseball that is incredible. And I owe him a lot since he gave me my first uh swing at the anthem.

Jerry 35:22

We could do an old Veeck episode there.

Brooke 35:25

That's right, the Veeck family.

Jerry 35:26

Bill of the Veeck family, the Veeck dynasty.

Speaker 35:30

Veeck is in wreck.

unknown 35:33

Yeah.

Jerry 35:33

Well, Joe Price, thank you so much for joining us. Uh we're so excited to have you out and uh and highlight this fascinating uh entity that is the baseball reliquary. Um and uh thank you for all the listeners out there. Thank you always to Brooke, my producer and lovely wife, and uh thanks to all our listeners. We hope you'll keep listening. Uh like us on your favorite uh podcast platform. This is Jerry Dynes, going back to the locker rooms with Fungos and Fastballs.