Accuracy Isn't an Accident

What separates a rifle that shoots tiny groups at the range from one that performs when the clock is running? How much of long-range success comes from gear, and how much comes from process?

On this episode of Built to Last, we sit down with precision rifle competitor, instructor, and engineer Ted Hoeger to break down what actually matters when building a precision rifle and stepping onto the firing line. Ted is the 2025 Precision Rifle Series Midwest Region Champion, with seven Top-10 finishes at national matches, more than 25 Top-5 finishes at regional competitions, and experience competing across the United States and Europe.

Ted began studying long-range shooting in 2007 and entered competition in 2019. Since then, he has built a reputation for simplifying a discipline that is often buried under endless gear recommendations and internet opinions. As a long-range instructor with Accuracy Dynamics and a licensed professional engineer, Ted approaches marksmanship with one guiding principle: understand what matters, when it matters, and why.

Tim, Jude, and Ted discuss the tools every builder should have on the bench, the components worth investing in, and the common mistakes shooters make when assembling a precision rifle. The conversation explores lot numbers, ammunition consistency, suppressors, muzzle devices, and the challenge of separating meaningful data from unnecessary noise.

Ted also shares lessons learned from years of competition, including the most challenging and rewarding matches he's shot, how night shooting exposes weaknesses that daylight can hide, and the mindset required to perform under pressure. Along the way, he offers practical advice for new competitors looking to shoot their first match and explains why competition remains one of the fastest ways to improve as a marksman.

Whether you're building your first bolt gun, chasing points in a PRS match, or simply trying to understand the science behind long-range shooting, this episode offers a practical roadmap from someone who has spent years testing assumptions and refining the process.

This podcast is for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice. Please speak to a qualified firearm professional for any industry-related questions or decisions. The views and opinions expressed in this episode are solely those of the host and guests and do not reflect the official policy or position of any company. This content is intended for audiences 21 years or older. Viewer discretion is advised. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:02

Welcome to another episode of Built to Last with Brown Ells. I'm your host, Tim, alongside our co-host Jude, recording in the Ram Room at Brown Ells. Today's guest is Ted Hager, a long-range rifle instructor with accuracy dynamics in the 2025 Precision Rifle Series Midwest Region Champion. Ted began studying long-range shooting in 2007 and entered competition in 2019. Since then, he's earned seven top 10 finishes at national two-day matches, more than 25 top 5 finishes at regional matches, including 9 wins, and has competed internationally in Norway, Italy, and Ireland. His influence extends beyond the firing line. Ted has authored articles for Sniper Tide, and his work on wind reading concepts has been incorporated into publications respected by instructors, including Frank Galley and Ryan Kleckner. As both a professional engineer and instructor, Ted is known for cutting through the noise. He focuses on identifying what actually matters, eliminating distractions, and building simple, repeatable processes that help shooters improve faster. Ted, welcome to Build to Last.

SPEAKER_04 1:07

Yeah, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

So help our listeners get to know you a little more. Tell us their story of how you got into long-range shooting.

SPEAKER_04 1:16

Long range shooting, well, I started out as a kid, always hunting, um, shooting as a kid. Dad took me out a lot. You know, so that's where the shooting background comes from. 2007 or 8 is when I saw a first video of like long-range shooting on YouTube. I think it was some of the Gunworks fellows that were doing at that time and studying what they were doing. And that's where the engineering and the math and science kind of clicked with it, saying, Hey, this is this is really neat, right? Like I think I want to do this. I so I kept up on it, uh, just kind of researching information, knowing more about it. And then in 2014, I had a neighbor uh lived down the road from me that invited me on a prairie dog hunt in Montana.

SPEAKER_03 1:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:51

And it was a kind of a nonchalant, hey, I'm going if you want to go. And uh went to work the next day, told my boss I'm leaving for a week to go prairie dog shooting, and then and and drove to Montana. So um, we got out there and started shooting things at 150, 200, 250 yards, you know, classic prairie dog ranges with a standard scope, nothing special. Uh, started trying things a little bit further, and and I started thinking there's there's got to be a better way to do this, right? I've seen enough of this long-range shooting on on the interwebs to know there's there's better gear, there's better science and math. Came home from that trip, uh, upgraded some gear, and then really started applying what I was learning on on the internet, right? Uh, how does it work to dial scope? How does a ballistic program work? How do you validate data? How do you do all these types of things? Then went back a year later and applied that in the prairie dog hunt. And we were killing prairie dogs at four, five, six hundred yards, you know, and and uh my my friend Tim that I went with the first time after I shot about the third one at 550 yards, he looked at me and he just says, Ah, you're showing off now. Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

He's cast him already. Right.

SPEAKER_04 2:55

And and I brought it back to him with this is science, right? There, there's a way to be able to apply this. If you can find a range, dial an elevation, make a win call, your success rate goes up a long way. So that started in 2014. Uh, after that, I started building a couple different rifles, and and in 2019 shot my first precision rifle series match. Uh, before that, I'd taken a few classes, uh, traveled around the country, took some big name classes to really hone out some skills in there. Then in 19 started shooting matches, and and now uh since 2019, I shoot somewhere around 20 to 25 matches a year. Wow. Right. So it's it's every weekend. In between teaching classes, shooting matches, and I also host matches, I'm on the range almost every weekend.

SPEAKER_03 3:40

Uh, what caliber were you shooting when you f were doing prairie dog hunts?

SPEAKER_04 3:44

Uh uh 22250 is where I started there. Okay. Right. So a lot of guys have that 22250 in the closet that that's pretty easy to pull out. And I took that rifle and started pushing it out to five, six, seven hundred yards just in practice.

SPEAKER_03 3:59

Um small little bullet to be in that kind of uh precision control of.

SPEAKER_04 4:04

Right. And that's where that's where the light bulb started going off for me is as at at 700 yards I can hit this target with a 22250 and a 50 grain bullet repeatedly. Oh my goodness, right? Like that that was the light bulb's moments of hey, this is repeatable, this can be done, and if I get to a cartridge that's more capable for it, it's going to be extremely repeatable, right? So it if you want to start long-range shooting, don't be afraid of the cartridges you already have, right? Use the ones you've got to get started. There's no need to buy a whole bunch of fango-dangle gear, which I know Brownells wants to make sure that you do, but let's get you started first and then you can upgrade gear into the right place, right? The right type of thing that that you need for.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

Yeah, that's a really cool like origin story. That's awesome. So so you like it, obviously you're very passionate about this discipline, like immediately. As soon as you started like consuming content about it, and like something in your head just clicked with the analytical process behind it and everything. Like, that's really that's really cool.

SPEAKER_03 5:00

You can tell you you're an engineer and you that's kind of how your brain is wired.

SPEAKER_04 5:05

Yeah, and and I would say in the long-range shooting discipline, we see a lot of that personality type, right? When we go to matches, a lot of the people there are the engineering type. They're electrical engineers, structural engineers, civil engineers, or they're machinists, really into the small, finite numbers, right? Really, really want to be in the numbers end of stuff. Um, to me, that's what really made the competitions even that much more fun. It's it's your type of people. You talk the same lingo, you talk the same way, you you know, it's it's it's your your group.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

And all the gear that you're bringing to these competitions and all the new things you're trying, like as long as well as the other guys, you guys are like solving problems while you're doing that or like addressing problems or like trying to make things a little bit better and make these tweaks, and you guys are all coming together as a community then and showing people like how you're doing it. That that is pretty cool.

SPEAKER_04 5:53

Yeah, very community-based. Everybody helps everybody at these, right? Because we're all fighting the same problems, right? Um, it's not like a a macho type of thing where you have to lift more weight than someone else. No, no, you have to figure the problem out, which is the wind and gravity and build a position and be stable, and we're all fighting the same things to to make it happen. So we're we tend to work together quite a bit as a group, um, developing types of shooting, developing different types of gear, developing on the stage what's your win call, right? So we we all tend to be together on that. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 6:25

Awesome. What surprised you the most uh during your first PRS match?

SPEAKER_04 6:31

So first match, I I think what surprised me the most is is how many targets other shooters hit. It was it was mind-opening to kind of I would shoot a stage and get four or five out of ten, and then another guy would walk up and it would look so easy, and he'd he'd hit every target and get all ten. And my brain was just going, How did that happen? I have no idea how you're even capable of that, right? That was the first match. Um I I think I did okay at my first match. I finished right in the middle, about 50th out of a hundred shooters. So I personally was very happy about that. Um, but seeing the capability that was out there, what can be done was was really interesting. And I think I think we probably need to under uh explain a little bit about what the long-range shooting is, right? Let's let's define that so so listeners really understand what we're talking about at long range. Yeah, go ahead. Um and I think the easiest way to for to do that is probably to explain what one stage at a match would look like. Awesome. Okay. So uh this is an example I'd like to give, and this is all written out for you beforehand. You have time to study and prepare. But when you walk up to the stage, you're gonna walk up with your whole squad, all eight or ten of you gonna show up at the same time, and you might find like a log laying there, a down tree, right? And there's red spots painted on. There's five red spots painted on this tree, and you're gonna have a piece of paper which is a course of fire that's handed to you. And on that course of fire, it might say on the start command, you're gonna build uh you're gonna engage target one and then target two with one round each from each of the five positions. So you have the five painted red marks, and then you have the two targets, and then they'll give you the target distance. Target one is at 472 yards, and target two is at five hundred and ninety yards. Right? So they kind of give you the distances and and all that information. Now you've got five minutes or so to figure out hey, here's what I need to dial up for elevation, study the wind, here's what I need to do for wind calls, and then study the positions. Here's how I'm gonna build positions. And then when it's your turn, you're gonna apply all of that, and they're gonna give you a time limit. There's gonna be a timer starts, and you have about two minutes, anywhere between 90 seconds to two minutes to complete those 10 rounds.

SPEAKER_03 8:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 8:39

Right? So you need to be able to build a position efficiently, um, have your elevation worked out, so what you're gonna dial your turret to, and then make sure you've got a wind plan if the wind's blowing. Where'd you miss, how'd you miss, how what corrections are you gonna make, um, and those types of things. So so long-range shooting, um, I think it's important we understand that that I'm not talking about ELR, right? Most of my engagements are somewhere between 300 and a thousand yards, right? Somewhere in that that supersonic flight of our bullet yet is the most commonplace that I'm shooting, but ELR is gonna be in that 15, 18, 2000, 3,000 yards they're pushing to now, and that's that's not exactly the place I'm in. Um just wanna, you know, get define my my zone there to know what it is. So in in long-range shooting, the two of the major things that you need to be able to do is one solve for gravity, and the other major one is solve for wind, right? How what kind of elevation am I gonna dial on my turret and what is my wind call? Those are the two biggest things that are gonna put us on target the most.

SPEAKER_03 9:37

So you have to understand the ballistics of not only your firearm but the ammunition that you're using down to like a minute kind of detail.

SPEAKER_04 9:46

Yep. Yep. There's quite a bit of study that goes into that, and then temperature, pressure, humidity, elevation, altitude, like all of that can can change that solution as well. So there's a lot of small pieces go into it. The further you shoot, the more important those little pieces are, right? 500 yards and in temperature, pressure, humidity is not gonna be a big problem. But you get into a thousand yards, now uh temperature is for sure gonna play a major role.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

Can you like give an example to our listeners of like what kind of deviation you can expect at like a thousand yards based on temperature? Like how many, how many inches would that change your your point of impact?

SPEAKER_04 10:24

Um this is gonna the there's a lot of it depends in there, right? It depends on your cartridge, it depends on how much temperature changes, it it depends on your bullet, it depends on a lot of different things. But in general, if if you're saying in a hunting situation, you know, and you start early in the morning and you're close to that freezing temperature, 30 degrees or something, and then in the afternoon it's gonna warm up to 60, 70, like it might happen, or or even at a match, um, the point of impact on the target could change up to nine, 10 inches. A lot. Wow, right? That's a lot. And and we can also toss other things in there, and that's just on your trajectory of the bullet, right? Now, if we toss in there your your powder charge or your powder combusts at a different rate, you might gain a whole bunch of velocity because it got warmer. And so because temperature went up, you actually might hit the target higher because of muzzle velocity went up. So, like, so like there's there's not just one level of temperature, there's a couple in there. And and in long-range shooting, most of the reloaders are trying to use gunpowders that don't have that temperature sensitivity, right? If we can get that direction, we're gonna try to remove that. Get rid of a variable, yeah. Yeah, but I I do have a rifle that picks up one foot per second per degree of temperature. So if we went from 30 in the morning to 60 in the afternoon, I just picked up 30 feet per second of muzzle velocity, and that's gonna affect my solution downrange.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

Wow. That's great. And like how big are these targets?

SPEAKER_04 11:45

Um in the precision rifle series or competition level I'm doing, most of our targets are about two minutes of angle or less, right? So 600 yards, you've got a 12-inch circle, right? And and um at a thousand yards, you have somewhere around a 24-inch plate usually. You know, it gets a little bit over that two MOA. Lately, gear has really come up, uh bullet manufacturing has really come up, and we're starting to see that target size shrink.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 12:12

A lot of matches are getting into that one and a half minute of angle, you know, instead of the full two minutes of angle to make sure that the the guys that are the best in the world aren't hitting every single target that they can they can miss a couple. So um it's also location dependent, right? Target size, if you go out to the west, west of the Mississippi, targets are gonna be bigger because there's more wind. If you go to the east of the Mississippi, down in the Carolinas or or Georgia, targets are gonna get smaller because they just don't have as much wind, or their ranges are completely shaded by trees, right? To to be able to have less wind. So target size is a little bit location dependent and um level of difficulty dependent, right? Yeah, about two minutes of angle. So uh that's what I tell most shooters at 400 yards, it's an eight-inch circle at a you know, 900 yards, it's probably gonna be an 18-inch circle or square, diamond, whatever, whatever shape it is. So yeah, we're we're definitely not shooting like Iron Maidens, the 24 by 36, you know, uh torso shaped targets. It's it's a bit more precise than that. Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Yeah, well, it makes sense from precision rifle series, right? Right. Yep. But that's cool. So so basically if you're if you're a guy that's doing like two gun shooting all the time and you're really good at like 500, but you're not taking into account windage very often, you're certainly not taking account like temperature or humidity, and you go out to this PRS match and you've got a 10-inch target, and like you said, it could the temperature alone could shift you five inches, like you're gonna be in trouble for sure.

SPEAKER_04 13:36

Yep. Yep. It it's the small things you have to keep track of through the whole day to to make it work. Right, because it's gonna fluctuate. Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

So you're constantly readjusting, you're constantly reevaluating the the conditions.

SPEAKER_04 13:47

Yep. That's cool. And and at like a a two-gun, they're gonna say you have to have two hits on the target to keep moving, right? Right. And whether you shoot two shots or twenty shots, you still have to hit it twice. Well, in our sport, it's more determined you only get two shots. And you're supposed to hit it twice, and you either get two points or you get zero points if you didn't hit it at all, right? So our are shooting's a lot more of a a solid solution rather than a hope and try or or miss and see it, you know. It needs to be a bit more more tight than that. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Because yeah, a lot of a lot of two gun matches you can you can dump a whole mag at a target if you want to. Yeah, because you you've gotta hit it. So that's or even in like handgun shooting, USPSA and stuff like that, like you can shoot the target six times if you want. But you just gotta get it.

SPEAKER_04 14:34

Right. So it changes you the mental place a little bit of of I I have to have this perfect the first time is is what we're trying to do.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

But you're still under time, right?

SPEAKER_04 14:43

Still under time, yeah. Kind of stressful.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 14:46

And and that's the that's another big hurdle of competition shooting, which you guys will have probably figured that out already, like stress management. Yeah, for sure. When that when that timer goes off is a big deal. Oh yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_00 14:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:59

Yeah. Um, and you guys are usually timed on how fast can you do it. Right. Right. For us, it's just a time limit. When the buzzer goes off, your time's up, however many targets you hit, that's how many points you got. Um, so we're trying to use all of the time allotted to us in in a calm fashion to do it really well. So um it's one of the reasons I like to push hunters into trying competition, right? As soon as your buddy says, Oh, look at that bull elk, let's let's shoot that, right? All of a sudden adrenaline goes up, stress goes up, things get crazy. But if you've done a lot of competition shooting, as soon as that happens, it's here's my process, right? You can manage it a little. This is slow and steady. I'm gonna do this and then this and then this, and before you know it, you know, we're we're pulling the trigger and and and ending the whole thing. So yeah, yeah, it's uh it's it's a ton of fun.

SPEAKER_03 15:47

What skills improve the fastest through competition that are difficult to learn just by going out and shooting by yourself?

SPEAKER_04 15:54

That stress management, I think, is the biggest one. Okay. Right. And it it takes shooters quite a while to figure that stress management out. But then when you're when you're shooting alone, I think consistency. Okay, right? Being able to find a place where where you have expectations now, like it you have to hit this target on the first or second shot rather than when you're shooting alone. I can miss three, four times, slowly walk the bullet into the target and hit it, right? Yeah. Um when you're shooting alone, that's easy to do and cheat yourself through it, right? But that doesn't happen in hunting, that doesn't happen in law enforcement, that doesn't happen in competition.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:27

So when you put into a competition place and under that stress, that that responsibility of hitting it the first time, I think, is is the is one of the big things that's learned.

SPEAKER_03 16:37

A little more accountability when you have everybody there like, now you missed it. Like that's a good point. That was it.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

Because like when you're just out there shooting with your friends or you're plinking or whatever, let's say you even go out to 400, 500 with an AR-15, you miss and you start like adjusting your hold, but like let's say you're not really adjusting your scope at all, and now you have your hold, and you're like, I can hit this all day now with the wind and everything adjusted, but you're not actually thinking about why you had to hold like that. Now you're just like competing with your friend to see who can hit the target and you know your hold, and like you just have this image in your head of where to hold the scope, but you're not thinking about like why it needs to be there. So it's definitely more forgiving, and like you said, you're not worried about the first shot at all. And now that you've actually hit the target, you're not worried about why you're there.

SPEAKER_04 17:21

Right, you just know it's working.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

Yeah, like this This is working, it's not broke, don't fix it. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:26

And we we need to be able to take that information, why am I hitting that target? And then the next time you come to the range, try to understand why that was and repeat it, right? And so that way the next time you come to the range, you didn't miss four times and hit the target, you missed once or twice and hit the target. And then right next time you come to the range after that, if we keep this information log going, right? Hopefully next time you come to the range, now you hit it on the first or second, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:50

So I think that like this is interesting because it really shows the difference between like your dis discipline and then like the guys that are shooting two gun all the time, because a big thing in that in that group is like what's the best zero to have for a competition. So is it 50 yard zero, is it 36 yard zero, is a hundred yard zero. And the whole point behind those things is like where do I hold my scope when I want to engage a hundred yard target or a fifty yard target or a three hundred yard target? And it's supposed to be, you know, you're talking about time and being fast. So like where am I gonna hold the reticle at 300 yards? Never is is windage or anything like that, like even coming close to the conversation about what's the best zero for two gun competition. Because it just, you know, you're just worried about like the speed and you're not accounting for wind at all.

SPEAKER_04 18:37

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

That's very interesting.

SPEAKER_04 18:38

And and what's your target size in in two gun out there at 300 yards?

SPEAKER_00 18:42

Oh, it's it's uh I don't know how many MOA it would be, but it's it's large. It's like man-size ipsyx or larger.

SPEAKER_04 18:47

Right. Yeah. Right. So that's why you don't have to worry about the wind so much because your target's big enough, it's it's sucking it up. Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

The whole the whole point behind the zero is like if you're if you're 50 yards zero and this is gonna be your hold at 100, you'll probably hit it. You probably get it right somewhere, you know. And it's a steel target, just hit it.

SPEAKER_04 19:02

And and uh an interesting game at that would be giving that target like an F-class style target. And and whatever your score is, you you multiply your score by, right? If you if you hit a 10 in the middle, you don't multiply by anything because it's all time-based, right? If you hit a nine, you multiply it by two. If you hit an eight, you multiply it by three. And then in in your discipline, instead of just going fast when you got to that long range engagement, it would be more about I gotta hit the middle than just hit it, right? So it'd be a little spice. I know that's not what they do, but it could be something different, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:36

I like it. So yeah, you familiar with tactical games?

SPEAKER_04 19:39

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

Yeah, so I like what they do, they really throw a wrench and things on two gun stuff. They don't use steel targets all the time. Like sometimes they do. Most of the time it's paper though, and that messes people up so bad because they're, you know, now you have like this triangle that's drawn on a piece of paper, and you gotta get within the triangle. And a lot of people are stacking just rounds on top of rounds, and it's a perfect group, and they're excellent. And it's just on the bottom right corner of the triangle, so a lot of them are misses, but like you don't have that audible feedback that you get with steel all the time, so like they don't know where they're hitting at a hundred, and also they're running around and doing all this crazy stuff, so it's getting the heart rate up. But I like I like how they threw that in there just like as an added difficulty.

SPEAKER_04 20:21

So so in the in the the two-gun type of thing, do you guys work on that long-range engagement and understand in your scope what to do with it? Or is it more of a I'm just gonna hold two targets high and see if it works? Yeah, it's more of that. Definitely more of that. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 20:34

You might have an idea of general idea of like, oh, 100 yards, I know my hold is here, but you're not you know adjusting your turrets at all.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

Right. It's yeah, it's more of a like uh let's say you have an LPVO on an AR-15, it's more of like you just sprint to a shooting position, and whether it's a barricade or whatever, building a stance, like that's probably similar. You know, you're building a good shooting position, and then you're working on slow steady trigger squeeze and all these things, and but you're not worried about what you're holding or anything like that. Not really. Like you're basically guessing at that point.

SPEAKER_04 21:06

Right. Most of the time I see it that the last target is the one that's the long range engagement. Would you say that's pretty common? Yeah, right. And a lot of LP VOs now have a dialable turret on them, right? So as you're getting to that position, why don't you dial one mil on that turret and now you just get to aim right at it? Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:25

Okay. Yeah. Thanks.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

How's that working for you?

SPEAKER_04 21:36

Okay. Well, there'd be a simple solution, right? If you've got that turret, maybe it's easy enough to dial that. If you're in minutes of angle, about three minutes of angle, if you're in mills, about one mils is the three hundred yard hold for almost every cartridge out there. Whether you're shooting six five Creedmore, five five, six, three hundred wind mag, that's gonna be about the number. Right? So maybe give that a go. All right. Yeah. Um so Maybe let's talk about that. How how do you figure that number out, right? In long-range shooting. How do you how do you know at 600 yards I need to dial 3.8 mils on on my scope? Right. So the old school way is to go out and shoot every yardage and write that number down, right? And on a dope card. And you kind of track that through a a data book or that type of thing, right? Now the the data book is pretty much uh I would say for most competition shooters and and average hunters is is an obsolete thing. We don't really need to track temperature, pressure, humidity, light condition, all of these things for recreational shooting. I I understand law enforcement may need still need to do that for things. I'm I don't have any experience there, but I I've been told it's um something they still need to do for courtroom situations, right? But but what most guys are going to do, I still like to recommend that shooting every hundred yards, knowing what that is, and then working with a ballistic program to true that program to my rifle system. And this is where a lot of long long-range enthusiasts kind of fall off the rails with it a little bit. They open a ballistic program, they put in, here's my bullet, here's what the box says my muzzle velocity is, here's the information, and they read 600 yards and they try to shoot 600 yards and they're just missing the target, right? They they dial on their scope exactly what the program says, but it's just not working. And that's where we need to understand what the rifle does first and then train the program to give us those results.

SPEAKER_03 23:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 23:23

Right. And a lot of guys try to do it the other way around, but which just doesn't work. Right. Right. So so if we can go out and shoot those yardages, work with the program, adjust our BC, adjust muzzle velocity if you have to, I really don't recommend that because now we're measuring muzzle velocity with Garmin's or the Athlon chronographs, right? They're they're they're a small Doppler radar put in front of your rifle that's measuring velocities to a very accurate number compared to what we used to do with the the bunny ears and the old chronos, they were called, right? You know, so um if we can use that muzzle velocity and then and then adjust our BC out at 800 yards to match up to our rifle system, that's gonna make that ballistic profile work for anywhere from 200 yards to 800 or maybe a little bit further. Um, if I'm gonna shoot further than that, then I want to kind of check that program again, right? I I know 800, but I don't know past that. So this is what we call trueing a ballistic program. And I think it's important that that long-range shooters are doing that. The trick with it becomes consistency, right? This if you do it once for this rifle and this ammunition, you can't change rifles and expect it to work for that. You can't change ammunition and expect it to work for that. Even if you go from 140 grain corner day match ammunition to 140 grain federal match ammunition, you still have to do that process again because you change something, right? So um long-range shooting, that that's that's a big part that I've had to do a lot of training with shooters to understand. It's a ballistic program. How do we get it to work for our system? And then then being able to use it in the field reliably is is important. So with that three gun thing, if you wanted to try that, right, you could get a ballistic program that works and you get that four, five hundred yard type of shot in a match. Like you can know exactly what to dial on the turret, aim right at it, right? Instead of guessing and holding, you you you've got a real number solution. Cool.

SPEAKER_03 25:13

We had Gavin Gear, who does ultimate reloader um on, and I was talking to him about some competition loads, and he he's not a competition shooter, so you didn't have or he didn't want to give an answer for that and and speak for the entire competitor world. But since you're here today, I thought I would pose the same question to you because we have people that will call in and they'll be buying brass or bullets for their uh PRS rifle and they want those matching lot numbers. How or why do they care so much about matching lot numbers with something like brass or bullets?

SPEAKER_04 25:46

Um so usually a new lot number is printed on the box every time one of the manufacturing machines gets turned on or off.

SPEAKER_03 25:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 25:53

Okay. So that's what the lot numbers are, right? And and it doesn't matter if it's 20 pieces or 20,000 pieces. If that machine gets turned on and off, usually the lot number is changed. Okay. The machine gets turned off for a reason. Right. And that's usually to adjust something, replace something, do something different. In the example of bullet manufacturing, if they turn the machine off and change three of their bullet manufacturing dies, that's gonna change the shape of the bullet. So having the same lot number guarantees this consistency that when I when I put this round in the rifle and I put 700 rounds later in the rifle, that bullet's gonna perform the same way. The brass is gonna perform the same way. The powder has the same um pressure curve, uh, you know, explosion rate that that the very first round had. So that that consistency in long-range shooting is is a big deal when you get to the competitor level. If you jump into the 22 long rifle stuff where they're doing like PRS style competitions with it and shooting 22 long rifle out to that, you know, 300 yards, the the lot number is everything.

SPEAKER_03 26:58

Right.

SPEAKER_04 26:59

Right. They know this is the lot number and this works really well for my gun, and most of those guys will buy five or ten thousand rounds of the same lot if they can get it. And the next lot may not shoot at all in their rifle forums.

SPEAKER_03 27:12

So you you said that there's three B's of having a PRS system that you care about bullets, brass, and then barrel. Let's talk about like someone who's getting ready to up their PRS game. Uh, and let's talk barrels. What's important to look for when you're talking barrels? Um, what have you experienced when you've built your rifles?

SPEAKER_04 27:32

Okay. Um the going thing right now in in long-range shooting is going to be a single point cut rifled barrel. That's where we're seeing most uh precision rifle shooters using. There's a couple different ways to make a barrel. There's uh drawing it with a button, right? And that's where you're pushing the button through it, moving the steel. Um, there's also the hammer forge, which is kind of the same thing where they're moving the steel around to create the rifling in the barrel, right? And the last way is a single point cut rifling where they're actually gonna drill a hole through the middle of a round blank, and then they're gonna start removing material out of there to create the rifling. That's the single point cut rifling, which has been the most common recently. So um a lot of the a lot of the big barrel manufacturers are certainly doing this. You know, the Bart lines, the Bruxes, uh, the Kriegers, the the CRB, um, and there's a lot of other names out there doing it. But I would say those are probably our our four largest ones that that we're using right now. So a lot of competitors are ordering a barrel blank, taking it to a gunsmith and having them cut the chamber in it, cut the uh muzzle threads on the end if they want to run a muzzle device, and then having that put onto their rifle. Um, so uh barrels we've seen some technology in the last 10 years change. I should say five years change a little bit. A big thing guys are looking at is barrel profile, which doesn't change how it's made, but it changes how your rifle's balanced.

SPEAKER_03 28:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 28:55

And that's a big deal in the PRS. You know, usually we're going to a heavier barrel. Most of my rifles are an are an inch 250 straight barrel that's 26 or 28 inches long. So something that's pretty heavy and it's a competition rifle, right? It's not meant to be carried up a mountain and go hunting with it's got a it's got a purpose. This is what I do with it. So um, in our game, we tend to add a lot of weight. So barrel uh weight, the profile is one. Uh barrel length is another one of the guys look at because length affects velocity, right? So the longer your barrel is, the faster your bullets are gonna go. The faster your bullets go, the faster they get to the target, the less drop they have, the less wind effect is in there. So you can gain some velocity and some some um advantages that way. I do think those advantages in gaining velocity is not what most shooters think it's worth, right? Precision rifle series, most of us are running bullets somewhere in that 2,800 to 2,900 feet per second range. We're not out there trying to run bullets at 3,000, 3,200, right? We have a speed limit in our sport of 3,200. And there was a time when everybody used to run things really fast right to the ragged edge because less time of flight was less wind call, right? Um, but we're finding out if you slow that down, your rifle shoots better groups usually. You know, you're not pushing to the ragged edge of harmonics or tuning or or whatever you want to do there. And it gives you a little more time to regain sight picture of the target and see what happens.

SPEAKER_02 30:20

Right?

SPEAKER_04 30:20

If the gun goes bang and then I can look at the target and then I see the bullet either miss left, miss right, or hit an edge of a target, like it gives me those extra couple frames to see what happens compared to super fast. So um, when it comes to barrels, those are some of the main things I'm looking at. In in the last eight to nine years, the big change with barrels has now been pre-fits. We're we're getting away from needing the gunsmith so much, and that's because the manufacturing of actions has come up so far. So they're making actions now that they'll guarantee if you cut the the barrel like this, it will fit and it head spaces and and it works safely. Right. So we're we're getting into a place now where most guys can like an AR-15, what used to be Legos for adults, right? Right. Precision rifles are becoming that way as well. If you if you get one of the higher end actions that guarantee this, you can go on the interwebs, you can buy a barrel right from Brownells that's pre-cut to fit your action, you screw it on. You might check headspace just to guarantee it, right? Simple action to do. Um, but you can really build a precision rifle now without ever needing a gunsmith to put it together.

SPEAKER_03 31:30

What tools do you have to have then to do a precision rifle build?

SPEAKER_04 31:34

Um couple tools I'm gonna look for to do a precision rifle build. One is is a barrel vise, right? Right, something to clamp the barrel on, be able to screw my action on, and then to be able to use a torque wrench to torque that action onto the barrel. And there's action wrenches that you need to be able to purchase so that you can improperly grab the action and torque it without marring it up or or chipping it or putting a good old crescent wrench on the outside, right? Something a little nicer than that. So that that's the main tools you're gonna need to put a barrel on an action. After that, the only real tool you got to have is gonna be a torque wrench, right? One of the smaller, uh like fat wrench or the or the wheeler wrench that that you can measure torque, you're gonna set that action into a chassis or stock, torque your your action uh screws down, and then you're gonna go to mounting a scope on top.

SPEAKER_03 32:22

Just like mounting a scope on any other firearm.

SPEAKER_04 32:24

Right, right. So so precision rifle builds have really become at home in your garage now, if you if you want to do that. I will say, in order to do that, you have to invest in one of the more expensive actions, right? Savage has been doing this forever with their barrel nut. With a with a Savage, they always have a barrel nut that that tightens the barrel onto the action. It's it's the same same idea, but with that one, you have to set the head space, right? In a savage, where with these higher end actions, the head space is already set. You screw the barrel on as tight as you can make it tight with your torque wrench, um, and and it's ready to rock and roll. So um, you know, we're talking actions that do that, we're gonna be up in that thousand dollar range to get there, right? You know, it's not a it's not a four or five hundred dollar action, they are a little bit more on the higher end to be theirs.

SPEAKER_03 33:12

How much accuracy comes from proper assembly versus just using premium components?

SPEAKER_04 33:18

That's a hard question to answer because the only thing different in assembly from like a like an AR type of rifle is putting the barrel in the action.

SPEAKER_03 33:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 33:27

Right? But otherwise, most of the error, I think, is gonna more come from mounting your scope wrong, right? Right. Or if you don't have your action screws tight into the chassis. Like some of those assembly could be a little bit more trouble. I think if you're using a barrel nut and setting head space, like the Savages do, um, and a couple other manufacturers do, that then you you have a much higher likelihood of having trouble or having accuracy problems than if you're buying like a pre-fit with a high-end action. That that's pretty well taken care of for you. So I would lean toward there being an accuracy problem, I should say a precision problem more on the ammunition and the shooter than I would on on the assembly of the rifle. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_03 34:08

Most of the the rifles are gonna outshoot the shooter's capabilities if you shoot at that accurate.

SPEAKER_04 34:14

Especially at the beginner level, for sure, at the beginner level. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:17

Uh what muzzle devices generally make a difference in competitive shooting?

SPEAKER_04 34:22

Um, so we're seeing a big shift in that right now. Okay. Uh for a long time or for a couple years, it's always been muzzle breaks, right?

SPEAKER_03 34:28

Right, right. We would assume that would be a big one.

SPEAKER_04 34:31

Everybody's running a muzzle break so that we have less recoil. We get to see the target and see where we hit or miss the target a lot better. Right. Um, and lately we've they've started a new division, the suppressor division, and we've had a few suppressor manufacturers really pump financial incentives into that division. Um, so we're seeing a lot of the precision rifle series right now is kind of drifting toward that suppressor division. Interesting part is they took suppressors and then put a muzzle brake on the front of the suppressor. Right. So we're reducing recoil with the suppressor and the brake, we're reducing sound with the suppressor, um, but we're still getting the recoil reduction to stay on target and see what happens, just like we used to with a muzzle brake.

SPEAKER_03 35:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 35:12

Right? So if you shoot with a bare muzzle, say the sound of your rifle is 140, 160 decibels, and you add a muzzle brake, and now the sound of your rifle is up 180, 190 decibels. I don't know those numbers for sure. I'm kind of making them up, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:28

It goes up.

SPEAKER_04 35:28

Yeah. But then you add just a standard suppressor to your rifle and it brings it down to that 130 mark, right? So you took 10 decibels off or 15 decibels off of what your rifle was. It can be comfortable to shoot that way. You still have the supersonic crack of the bullet, but then they added the brakes back onto the front of them, and you end up about back where like a bare muzzle was at on that 140 or 60 decibels, whatever it was. But you've reduced, you've reduced your recoil, uh, you stay on target better, and you just don't have as much concussion as what what brakes do, right? So I I still ask the question is it still a suppressor if it's a little bit louder than what your bare muzzle was? Or is it a suppressor of muzzle brakes? Right. So I I would definitely say if you're if you're into long-range shooting and you want to see what hits the target, you want some type of muzzle device. If you're in a situation where you can wear hearing protection and and you don't mind it so much, a muzzle brake, I personally think right now is the most cost-effective and one of the and a very good solution, maybe the best solution, depending on the break you get. If you're a little more adverse to the concussion of a muzzle brake, because they do add like a pop in the face or an air pressure you can feel. If you shoot a whole lot, some guys complain of a headache from muzzle brakes, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:43

Then going into the suppressor would be the next place to be. Shooting with a suppressor is very comfortable, very convenient. I do enjoy it quite a bit. So as a new shooter, if you I would say some type of muzzle device you want so that you can see your target better, that you can shoot longer, more comfortably, easier. Um, and that gives you the time to practice long-range shooting to make you proficient at it. So a muzzle break isn't just about um controlling recoil or or seeing the target, it's also about the length of time that you can afford to be on the range and and enjoy it. Especially if you're shooting a magnum cartridge, right? You got an elk hunt coming up and you're gonna shoot a 300 wind mag. Well, I'm probably not gonna go to the range and practice long-range shooting for 60 rounds of ammunition on a Saturday afternoon, right?

SPEAKER_03 37:28

You'll make a lot of enemies.

SPEAKER_04 37:30

Right, right. And that enemy is gonna be the bruise on your shoulder from running that many rounds, right? You're probably gonna shoot six to ten rounds, maybe twenty, and then say, you know that I I can I can quit that. Where if you add that suppressor into the whole mix, now you've got the opportunity to shoot 40 or 50 rounds and still feel comfortable because you've reduced the recoil, makes it easier to shoot, and and you're also reducing sound when you had that suppressor. And now that suppressors are so so uh aren't so time dependent to get, right? Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 38:00

Um much more expedient process.

SPEAKER_04 38:02

Yeah. Suppressor wait times went from being 11 to 14 months down to about two weeks. Right. Right. Right. So um they're they're becoming much more popular very quickly, and now we're struggling with can you find the suppressor you want, right? Because the market is that hot. Um something we've noticed is because the tax stamp is gone, there's also a secondary suppressor market now, a used market, where before you couldn't you couldn't really sell a suppressor because you had to go through all the paperwork to transfer it from you to the store, then the store to the new to the new owner, and that was a lot of money and time to get it done. But now that now that we can easily transfer it back to a store with a little bit of paperwork, and the next guy can have it within a few weeks and then no tax stamp involved, that secondary suppressor market's opened up. So um, for guys that want a little more cost-effective option, that that's a thing, or you know, they're on Brownell's website.

SPEAKER_03 38:53

So there you go. Thanks. Appreciate it. Uh, what separates a good PRS match from just uh a great one?

SPEAKER_04 39:02

I'm I'm gonna address that from two different places. All right. One is the people, right? When you get the right people in the right place that want to have fun and enjoy the day, that's a fun PRS match. I also think it's a fun PRS match when you have new shooters there trying to figure it out, right? As a guy that teaches long-range shooting and has classes and that type of thing, I love to see people have that light bulb when you know that they lay down in competition. It's the first time they hit a target over 500 yards, and they they only might only might have hit four out of 10, but they come off a stage and they're super excited about it. Oh my gosh, that was so much fun. Let's do that again. It's like it's like uh they just had their first zip of cocaine, right? Right. You know, it it it truly is an addiction that can happen very quickly when when you're in that competition circle. So um getting good people around that that want to have fun, want to work together, want, want to have a day of it, that's a big deal about having a good match. But but that's common with anything you do, right? Good people's always a good time. And and then a good match design, right? A match that flows, a match that doesn't have target failures where you all have to stop shooting so they can go fix the target. Um that's a really big deal. If your match can flow from beginning to end without stops, that's a a big part of it. Um, and then drilling it down one more, good stage design, like a match director that's that is a shooter that has thought through what am I testing on this stage, right? And and we've got about three things we can test. One is is target size, two is time. We can press you on time, three is position building, right? Give you awkward positions and that type of thing. So when a match director decides I want to test all three of these in this stage, that stage kind of is maybe not the most fun, right? For super high level shooters, that's what they're after. Right. But for the new guys are learning or mid-pack fellas just wanting to have fun, that that's probably not it. So a match director that thinks through, you know, I I want to test these two things on this stage instead of all three, that's what can really make it fun. Targets that are hittable, everybody knows you hit more targets, you're gonna come back, right?

SPEAKER_00 40:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:00

So put putting all that together with stage and match design is is is a big deal to make it fun.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

But then also those shooters are coming out of that stage with more experience under their belt.

SPEAKER_04 41:10

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 41:10

Like when the when you give them the two challenges to focus on multiple targets, same conditions, then they're building those repetitions on that same shot or on that same kind of circumstance. Instead of like giving them here's one challenge, and then here's a different challenge, and here's a different challenge. It's gonna be harder for them to retain the Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_04 41:29

Adding adding two challenges together is great. Adding three or four is where it becomes daunting. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_03 41:34

You want to build that confidence up.

SPEAKER_04 41:37

Yep. And I've I've been to those matches where every stage is is testing three, three of them, right? And and at the end of the day, you get back in the truck and you're like, ah, that match was like a job. I had to work at that. I was supposed to come here and have fun. Truly at the end of that match, you probably learned a lot. You grew as a shooter, it's just you didn't enjoy doing it. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

What about like a what about a match where one stage is one challenge and the next stage is a different type of challenge? And like sp like specifically, the first one is all about building a shooting position, and it's extremely challenging. But the targets themselves aren't that bad, and the time's good. But then you get to the next stage, and now the shooting position's not really the problem. Now you're under time or something like that. Does that describe a good match?

SPEAKER_04 42:25

Um, I I think most shooters would say that was a good match, right? Because it's simple. It didn't make them have to work too hard at it. You didn't have to be like a job and try to figure it out. It was enjoyable, simple, fun. I think a lot of shooters have fun at that match, but I also think if you want to if you want your shooters to become better shooters or you want to become a better shooter, you need to find something that's a little bit more stressing, right? Um, I've shot those matches, and at my level of shooting, when I'm getting done with that match, I say that was okay, right? Maybe a little bit mundane. Um so so having a little bit more stressor in there, I think, to me, is a better match. And that's a personal choice, right?

SPEAKER_01 43:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:03

People that are brand new to to precision rifle series and shooting their first match ever, they're definitely gonna enjoy that match. That was like, here's the one thing you gotta figure out, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:12

It just shows my experience. Yeah, yeah. We're gonna change that so. Was that a good match? No. I'm just I'm just putting things together. All right.

SPEAKER_03 43:21

Yeah. If someone was wanting to get into PRS, what would you recommend they do or what would that path look like?

SPEAKER_04 43:30

Okay. Um, the first thing is is the decision to go. Right. I I talked to so many people. Oh, I'd love to try that. I've always wanted to try that. And the one thing they don't do is show up.

SPEAKER_03 43:40

Is try it. Right.

SPEAKER_04 43:42

So you have to step one mentally decide whatever happens, I'm gonna show up. Right. That that's the the biggest hurdle to get people to to be there. Um then after that, I I'd look for a match. There's the web PRS website you can get onto. Um, impact scoring is what we're using now to score, and that has all the matches listed. Find a match in your area. Facebook's a good source for this as well. If you start digging and you know and searching for things, um, find a match in your area and and contact that match director. Just say, hey, you know, I'm brand new, want to try this out. What do I need? Most of the time, that match director is probably gonna say, I've got a rifle and ammunition, rent the rifle for me, buy the ammunition from me, just show up and shoot, right? You don't even need to bring your own gear. And and as a match director myself, I have that same situation, right? And it's an easy way to get shooters into the sport so that they they're not so daunted with I have to have all this gear and all this stuff figured out and all these all these types of things, right? So if you wanted to try your first match, I think that's the first avenue. Um, call the match director, see if something's available. And and if they don't have something available and you ask them, do you know anybody that I could like rent a rifle from or figure it out? Like they're probably gonna know somebody in the area that's like, oh, this guy's got seven rifles, and he'll you know you can rent one from him and shoot his ammo and and and pay him for it, like that that's certainly possible. Next step up is if you have your own rifle and you've got ballistics figured out, you're ready. That's it, right? Come to the match. If you have a rifle uh that fits the requirements of the match, which is usually 30 caliber or less and 3,200 feet per second or less, bring it to the match. And and if you show up with a rifle, scope, ammunition, and and a bipod, the other guys in your squad are gonna help you figure the rest of it out. If you need a positional bag, a rear bag, if you need a tripod, if you need something, those guys are gonna help you out, right? Um, and that's what I like about this group. You know, it's kind of the the the engineers and the thinkers that are there to for everyone to work together and not for me to beat you, but for both of us to win together. Right, right. So, so I think that's the first avenue for for someone to certainly try it. The the matches I host, we have a um advanced and a basic course of fire, right? So we have advanced course of fire for the guys that know what they're doing and a broken down, more simple course of fire for the guys that just want to come try it, and that way you get to shoot a little more and hit a few more targets than if you were tossed right in with the advanced guys to do it, right? And and along with that, um I tell all of my advanced shooters who who are becoming more and more of them now, that I expect you to help the basic shooter, right? I want you to you were there once, you got some help. Let's now let's help those new guys out. And and they're so good about doing that. So nice. So choose to go to a match, follow that choice. Show up, give the match director a call, or or find someone you can tag along with. Um, but but they're very open inviting, absolutely.

unknown 46:33

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 46:33

Uh, some rapid fire questions here as we close out today's episode. What's your favorite cartridge right now?

SPEAKER_04 46:39

Um Right now, my favorite is six BR, six bench rests. That's what I shoot for most of my competitions. Um, it is crazy simple to reload for, it's ultra accurate. I don't have to try very hard to make reloads work correctly. It is it is so simple.

SPEAKER_03 46:55

Favorite match you ever shot?

SPEAKER_04 46:56

Um, Viking Trail in Norway. It was a three-day match where we had that one. It's really hard to it sounds awesome just by the name. Yeah, it was I would I would give it the word epic, right?

SPEAKER_03 47:10

What's one shooting skill everyone should master?

SPEAKER_04 47:13

In precision rifle. Um, I'm gonna put this together with two of them. Okay. And they have to work together. That's why I'm putting them together. Breathing and trigger control. And precision rifle, if you really want to shoot small groups or hit small targets, these two things have to come together. And that's whether you're in the prone position, laying on the ground, or if you're shooting from a barricade and you're balancing your rifle and it's got some wobble in it, right? You have to be able to breathe and pull the trigger correctly to be able to hit that target with consistency.

SPEAKER_03 47:44

Nice. Where can people interact with you, Ted?

SPEAKER_04 47:48

Um Facebook is a big place I spend a lot of time, or on my website. Uh accuracydynamics.us is my website. If you've got any questions, always happy to chat with people, answer emails, all that type of stuff. So um, and Facebook, we got a couple Iowa long-range rifle groups that I spend a lot of time in to help uh put out information, uh, make posts there and and get new shooters to come to matches.

SPEAKER_03 48:10

Awesome, which is all what it's all about. Even with Jude and I do in two gun, it's trying to get that next generation to make it more accessible for them, take come some of that fear out of it, like, oh, I can never do it. Like, yeah, actually you could for less than what you think. So that's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 48:26

I don't live too far from here, so I I feel pretty fortunate to be close to Brownells, and and the resources you guys provide for the area has been been really incredible. So um want to thank you guys for letting me come on and chat with you and and be here for the day. I'm I had a good time.

SPEAKER_00 48:39

Awesome. Yeah, thank you, Ted. And I'm I'm excited. I'm gonna come out uh August 2nd. Yeah, I'm gonna check this stuff out.

SPEAKER_04 48:45

I got a rifle for you. Come on.

SPEAKER_00 48:46

Like, I I can't stress enough how much before this episode, like Ted just put everything out there in front of me and just he's he's he's covering like everything. He's giving me everything to do this, and all I have to do is just show up. And like, that's incredible. If if all the match directors for this kind of sport are like half as nice as Ted, this is the easiest thing to get into ever.

SPEAKER_04 49:07

Most of them are at my level. Most of them are very inviting and have the gear, just want guys to show up. Um, long-range shooting is one of the fastest growing sectors of guns right now, right? Of shooting. And and it's because of match directors and people like me that are being open and welcoming, teaching classes, putting on matches to get guys to be there. So yeah. Well, awesome.

SPEAKER_00 49:28

I can't wait. This is gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_03 49:29

Ted, thanks for bringing your experience and perspective to the Ram room today. If you enjoyed today's episode, share Built to Last with someone who wants to become a better builder, better marksman, or simply better understand the craft behind precision rifles. As always, ready, aim, fire your comments or questions to built to last at brownells.com and rate and comment wherever you stream this podcast from. Remember, if it's worth building, ensure it's built to last.