Too Late to Intervene | Are We Already Failing Kids? – Ep 008

Hosts: Courtney Acosta & Mario Acosta 

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Podcast: The EdLeadership Pair – Unfiltered Conversations for Today’s School Leaders 

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Episode Overview 

Too many schools say they believe in intervention, but what they actually have is a delayed reaction: waiting for benchmark scores, state tests, or “proof” while learning gaps rapidly widen. In this episode, Courtney and Mario unpack what real intervention looks like when it’s designed as a system built into the school day, driven by strong formative data, and focused on essential learning. They also walk through practical structures like Flex Time/WIN time, clarify Tier 1–3 responsibilities, and explain why interventions must close gaps inside the context of grade-level learning and not as random pullouts.  

The throughline: if your plan depends on teacher sacrifice or after-school attendance, it will miss the students who need it most.

Big Ideas from the Conversation 

·      Stop the delayed reaction: how to bake timely, directive support into the school day (without burning out teachers).

·      Intervention is a system, not a schedule add-on. 

·      If you’re waiting on state test data, it’s already too late. “Poop in, poop out”: weak inputs (especially large-scale standardized tests) create weak intervention decisions. 

·      Formative assessment tied to essential standards is the best intervention data. 

·      Technology can make individualized support doable at scale without drowning teachers in manual tracking. 

·      Effective intervention must be baked into the school day (Flex/WIN/academic labs), not dependent on before/after-school. 

·      Tier 2 cannot compensate for weak Tier 1 instruction; Tier 1 should produce ~80–90% mastery through reteach + reassess. 

·      Tier 2 should be timely, directive, and systematic and not optional for students who need it. 

·      Close gaps within the context of grade-level content to reduce cognitive load and build real transfer.

Leadership Actions Recommended in This Episode 

1. Build the right data inputs before you build the system. Audit your current data sources and ask: Which of these actually helps teachers adjust instruction tomorrow? Increase the weight of formative, in-the-moment checks aligned to essential learning and reduce overreliance on large standardized/benchmark snapshots.

2. Define essential learning before tracking anything. Work with teams to identify the critical standards/big ideas that matter most. Intervention cannot be precise if the target is unclear.

3. Bake intervention time into the master schedule. Design Flex/WIN/academic lab time during the school day so every student can access support especially bus riders, athletes, and students with responsibilities after school.

4. Make Tier 2 timely, directive, and systematic. Keep student choice where it helps, but don’t leave support to chance. Use classroom data to pull students by topic and need, then re-check progress in short cycles.

5. Strengthen Tier 1 so Tier 2 isn’t a rescue mission. Coach for reteach + reassess routines and set clear expectations that Tier 1 is responsible for the vas

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🌐 Bios: https://www.theedleadershippair.com/about-us  

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Join our growing community of school leaders navigating today’s challenges together.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

If a student fails a state test in April, when did they actually start struggling? In January, in October, the year before? We say we care about intervention. We buy programs, we analyze benchmark data, we hold meetings about the bubble kids. But here's the hard truth. A lot of what we call intervention is just delayed reaction. We wait for big data. We wait for scores. We wait for proof. And by the time the proof arrives, the gap has only widened. Real intervention isn't something that you sprinkle before or after school. It's a system. And if it's not baked into the school day, then it's not a system. Today we're talking about the difference between schools that hope students can catch up and schools that are designed so students don't fall behind in the first place. I'm Courtney.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

And I'm Mario.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

And this is the Ed Leadership Pair podcast. And today we are talking about the big bad I-word.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

Oh, the I-word. The I-word. The I word.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Talking through interventions and building systems of intervention. So what are your thoughts? Where do we go? How do we start?

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Well, yeah, I think if we're gonna talk about systems of intervention, um we have to, I think, start with data and data collection, right? Because in schools, that's always the big press. What's the data? Make data-driven decisions. Do you know your data? Do we have data?

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Where's your data room? Where's your data wall? Show me your data window. Where's your data bathroom?

SPEAKER_00 1:41

All of it, right? So yeah, so we we have been drilled in us in this standards era, right? That we should be collecting data and to be making data-driven decisions. But I think there's an old adage of being data rich but information poor.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Oh my gosh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

And so I think the first place we got to go if we're gonna talk about systems of intervention is you gotta talk about the correct inputs. And it's an adage you and I have shared over the years. Poop in, poop out, right? So I think I think before we talk about all the systems you can build on your campus to intervene for students, it's gotta be that the inputs of data have to be valuable, or else all the systems you build are gonna be misinformed.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

And I think um, when we talk about the data, obviously there are conversations about formative versus summative, and there's the talk of it's it's an autopsy versus a checkup, and all of those pieces that we've all heard ad nauseum. And obviously, we want to talk about formative data that is along the way, preferably even in the classroom as it's happening. That's kind of ideal. We are we're going well beyond just an over-reliance on large-scale standardized assessments, because those standardized end-of-year assessments or even mid-year assessments or whatever, those distort intervention design because it's one moment in time, one piece of information. And if that's all you're relying on to make instructional decisions for your kids and create systems of intervention for your kids, then you are pretty data poor, right? Would you say that?

SPEAKER_00 3:17

I would say that. And I'm gonna start um with a very important book. It's the five big ideas for leading a high reliability school, Bob Marzano, Phil Warwick, and myself. I was um blessed to be a part of that co-authorship. And in this book, Dr. Marzano makes very clear to schools large standardized assessments. The data tells you more about the reliability of the test itself. And it's not good data for the individual learner. And I'll back that up with one more organization. The National Research Council has repeatedly warned that standardized assessments are not designed to guide daily instructional decisions. So when you have an intervention system that is centered on standardized testing data, that is error number one. Poop in, poop out. Standardized testing data is not great intervention data.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

So what do you do? Where do you go?

SPEAKER_00 4:11

So then I think where you go is you say, okay, you already brought up the phrase formative assessment. Let's let's dive a little deeper into formative test. You are a genius. You you hit it right out of the park. Um, but when we talk about formative assessment, um, I'd like to cite John Hattie in visible learning. And John Hattie has made clear for decades that this is not only one of the most impactful things we can do for student learning, but it provides really important data. Um, there's another book called Inside the Black Box by Paul Black and Dylan Willem. And here's the explanation is that formative assessment gives us a much better in the moment understanding of what the student knows and doesn't know. If you're gonna build effective intervention systems, we wanna have data that is formative, that's both obtrusive, meaning show me what you know right now, and unobtrusive, I'm tracking you while you're learning. And we want to make sure that what we are measuring are these key critical concepts of the learning. Um, you know, Mike Maddows, he's really famous in his RTI at work. He explains to us that if we don't have clarity on what the essential learning is that we're trying to measure, then how do we know what we're intervening on, right? Just a bunch of data doesn't mean we have good information. We've got to know what are the kids supposed to be learning. And then we should have this formative, ongoing, in the moment telling us where is the child when it comes to their learning of those critical concepts.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

And knowing that all states, I mean, you and I both have had a national look at schools and districts and states across the nation and even some international stuff on my end, but they all have way too many standards. And so it is necessary for you with your teachers and your instructional team to talk about what are these essential standards, not just all the standards, but how do we identify what those essential standards are? And you're saying then that's what we collect data on in the classroom.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

And these formative assessment options, unobtrusive and obtrusive formative assessment aligned to essential content, is the way forward and the path forward for creating effective intervention data. Because then I can turn around and say, Hey, Courtney, you are about right here on this big idea. We're just gonna help you fill up your bucket, right? Yep. You're you're up here on this big idea. So you're already good over here, right? So intervention should now be centered on how our students are mastering each of these big essential ideas, and the data that we're collecting from the classroom should give us a sense of where the student is on that progression.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

And I could see why a teacher who might be listening to this or might be getting some of this information from their leader would be like, oh my God, this is, I cannot believe you want me to hand track this on pieces of quarter paper or whatever it was that you were doing at LGBJ. Like to ask a teacher to do that now on top of everything that is on their plates when we're talking about intervention would be seriously overwhelming. And so I think for me, that's why you have to bring technology into it. It has to be a component of your system of intervention, not just tracking the data, but also the learning that students are able to do at different points in the cycle of learning, whatever they, wherever they are, there are so many opportunities and so many different like programs or methods that you could use that are not causing the teacher to be spread so thin. And you can find some really good ones that do track and report this student data and their progress. And it's watching them along the way and reporting back on how they're doing and and will tell you they didn't really get you got to go back again. And maybe they need a little bit more intensive instruction on this, or cool, they they were a little behind on this particular area and they were able to move forward and learn it, so we can move on now. Um, technology is so highly needed because it helps the teachers increase efficiency when they have so many different students at different levels of learning within the within one classroom. And forget about if you're talking about a high school teacher with seven different classes and you've got 35 kids in every class. I mean, you've got three preps. Yeah, exactly. That's way more intense. So you you really can't do it without technology in an efficient way now. And kudos to you and your team for doing it way back in the day. Apparently, we were teaching in principals in the 1960s, but I mean, now there's no reason for that. There's no reason for that now.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Give massive shout outs to Maggie Cash Dollar and her English team, Laura Race, and um you know some really smart women and some great teachers, others that are not Ariel Taylor, Dr. Taylor, uh there's just so many that I couldn't name them all, but those teachers said, we're not gonna let the work we gotta do get in the way of what's best for the students of that population. And and we made some historical gains at that school because the teachers said, All right, we're gonna track every student's progress on these critical learning outcomes. And when a kid doesn't get it, we're gonna keep giving them more until they get it. And so yeah, we had to do it by hand. And and sure, it it that was 2012, so it might as well have been 1960 at this point. 2012 might have might as well have been that long ago. So it's true.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

It's true.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

So then if we've got the data in, we said poop in, poop out. So we fixed that. We're we're gonna put in quality data. Let's get into then some of the structural designs. Courtney, you said this already that effective interventions have to be built into the school day. It has to be baked in the cake. It cannot be icing that you put on top of the cake, it has to be an ingredient that was baked in and made as part of the structure, right? And so would you do me a favor because you led a massive initiative in Round Rock ISD. You and I were principals there together. You were at McNeil High School, I was at Westwood High School, and you led this massive initiative to implement intervention structure during the school day that ended up spreading across all five of the high schools in our large school district. Just really quickly, if you would, describe for us what it did and how did it create these intervention spaces and actually um effectively intervene for kids during the school day?

SPEAKER_01 10:39

Yeah, so this was actually um something that we stole from a neighboring school, Vandegrift High School, with Charlie Little. But this was happening across schools in a neighboring school district, Leander ISD. And I grabbed some teachers, we went over and watched their system that they had set up and brought it back. And we went through the whole change management process and all of that, which I will skip over. But the idea of this, it was called flex time. What it was is we built in, I think it was like 40 minutes during the school day after second period, and we created a system online where kids would sign up and say, I'm gonna flex into. They had like a homeroom that they would stay in. Okay. And they would say, I'm gonna choose to flex into this other teacher's classroom so I can go get some help, so I can finish a test, so I can take a test because I was absent, so I can practice some things that I don't really understand, so I can um collaborate with other kids and finish a project, whatever it is. And they would sign up online and flex into these other classrooms. And there was like a movement period where they would all move and then clear out the halls and then go to these classes. But the main point of it was this um intervention idea that they could go to a class with a teacher that is supporting them currently in one of their classes and get help in real time. And it didn't have to be before or after school. So if you rode a bus, you weren't worried about I gotta run to this class, ask my teacher a question for five seconds, and then run to my bus or whatever it was. I'm gonna miss basketball practice, I'm gonna, I'm running late, whatever it is. But it was a really great opportunity because now it has become something that the kids and the teachers rely on because the teachers would say, Hey, come in, come into my room, flex tomorrow, I'll help you with this. Teachers didn't have to stay after school, the teachers didn't have to come in early because they had a way to tell kids flex into my room tomorrow and we'll work through this together. It was beautiful, it was so great.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

Yeah, loved it. So that was flex. It was flex time, and and of course, that spread. I I after seeing what you guys did with it for a year, we said at Westwood, we gotta go do that. We at Westwood had gotten very, very clear on what the essential learning outcomes were by content area, by grade level. And so during our flex time, you said kids could go see a teacher because they had a missing assignment, or they could go see the teacher to get tutorials. We were doing that, but then we also put some gasoline on the fire and we said, now for some kids, we're gonna start to pull you during flex time based on the essential learning you were still struggling with. So, for example, my whole math department, every teacher, we had about 25 math teachers, big, big high school. All 25 math teachers on Mondays were pulling kids, not by grade level, not by their own class, but by the topic or the big idea that any kid was missing in the whole school. So you had 25 math teachers pulling kids by topics, and they might have known this kid, they might not have, but they were intervening on these big ideas. And where did the data come from? It came right out of the classroom because our teachers were good data. Yeah, and we were all measuring these big topics, right? So all of us could share all the kids, and so we took it to another level where um, you know, Monday was math day, math got to pull as a priority first. Then Tuesday was English Day, so then English got to pull as a priority, and the English department was doing that. Wednesday was science day, and then Thursday was foreign languages and social studies. We got into this system by content, by topic, we were tracking every kid. So we were this is a really important mantra when you're building effective intervention. We should be tracking by kid, by topic, by progress inside of the topic. Every kid, every big idea or big topic, not standard, because right, what do we say about the standards? There's six billion of them, and you can't track them all, but by kid, by big idea, and then by where they are in that progress. And so this flex did everything that you described, and then we were able to say, okay, this is gonna become a topic or or essential standard or whatever you want to call it based intervention system that we were gonna do in a very systematic way. And I will echo what you said. It has to happen during the school day. It has to. Anything that you do before or after school is a supplement. And I would urge every leader listening if the answer to the question is what do we do for intervention at our school, and it is outside of the school day, before school, after school, Saturdays, those are not intervention systems. Start over. Yeah, those are not intervention systems, start over because the kids who need them the most can't be there. This is something that should happen during the school day. And Court, you said something else. When we ask teachers to work before school, after school, and Saturdays, we're only wearing out and burning out our human resource, right? All of this work needs to happen from bell to bell, Monday through Friday.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

And it's exhausting on the kids.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

It's it's so draining. And and how beautiful that you got it to the point where your teachers were basically going about this in a mastery learning way. Correct. That's so amazing. And I would be willing to bet, I don't know, I don't think we've ever talked about this. I'd be I'd bet money that some of those ideas came from your teachers who said, Hey, here's an opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

All of them. Listen, our listeners now are many episodes in with us. They know that didn't come from me. Right? Everybody knows that the coach of coaster here is. Yeah, I just I did bus duty and pickup and drop-off duty. We've made that clear in previous episodes. So you're right. I was smart enough to know that the people around me, both on my admin team and my teacher team, they took this idea that you guys started and they said, Okay, we're gonna fit it to Westwood and we're gonna take it, just keep making it better and better. So we went on four years after you had left the district. And so we had four more years of of building this on, and you know, when the pandemic hit us and everything went to hell in a handbasket. It was flex that was able to pull us out. Those kids had all those gaps coming back after 2020. And thank God we had flex because we were able to close those gaps that the kids had lost over that time. So that's important. Hey, let us just talk about this other piece that I don't think we can skip if we're talking about systems. We said intervention systems have to be during the school day, they have to be timely and and directive. Meaning a kid can't always say, I choose to come for help. That is that is fine, but there has to be a point where you said, no, no, I don't care if you choose or not, we are pulling you in here, yeah, right? In a timely and directive fashion that that is systematic. And that's why I was telling the story of uh we had to get into like a nice system. Monday for math, Tuesday for English, Wednesday was science. That this is systematic. It was not optional for kids, it was directive and it was mastery-based. So it had that timely component to it. We weren't intervening on things that happened to them six years ago. We were intervening on what they needed right now, right, right in the moment.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

That is gold for your whole idea of intervention, and that it's so Mike Mattis of you that it is timely, directive, and systematic. Talk about the difference between tier one, two, and three.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Okay, thank you. So tier one intervention, just so everybody's on the same page as that. So tier one intervention, um, as defined by sort of some national standards, it means that the classroom teacher is responsible for anywhere between 80 to 90 percent student mastery in the classroom, with me, the teacher, which means I can't start waving a flag around and say, hey, I need help. These kids need help until I've gotten about 80% of my kids to learn the thing. Um, so one of the problems with intervention systems is teachers will teach a unit once, they will give a test at the end of the unit, and probably about 50% of kids really understand the content. And then we rush to move to the next unit. And so what happens is because we're on a schedule.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

We have to get through all the standards.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

That's because we're trying to chase too many standards. And listen, if you want to build good intervention systems, leaders, quit chasing all the standards. It's a losing game mathematically. Bob Marzano has proven to us that if you try and teach every standard, it takes upwards of 22 years. Let me say that again. 22 years to teach every standard. And in case you're wondering, in the American school system, we have 13 years. So you're a little short on time.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

A little bit.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

So you can't they would be 27. Yeah, right. Coming out. You can't just speed through every standard. You have to teach these critical ideas, these critical concepts, these critical topics. And the teachers have to understand just because I teach it once doesn't mean 80% of my kids actually got it. They might have heard it, but they didn't get it. So to build tier one intervention, I have to go slow enough and reteach and reassess and reteach until about 80% of my kids get it. Now, then and only then should we enact tier two. Now, what is tier two? Tier two is outside of the classroom, outside of the traditional teacher time, outside of the unit structure, if you will, right? So tier one has to happen in the unit structure. I teach it once, I reteach it again, I reteach it again until about 80% of my kids get it. Tier two then kicks in for that, like 20%. This can be time again during the school day, but not during the unit. That could be a flex period, that could be an extra uh time that's built in an extra class period, something like that. Does that help define? Um, finally, tier three. What is tier three? So, tier three is meant to be that really, really intensive, very programmatic, very scripted support that that only about 5% of kids should ever really need.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Thank you for going through tier one, two, and three.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

I want to piggyback off that with uh this theory called cognitive load theory. Intervention must stay connected to the grade level content, is something that most of us get wrong when we're building intervention systems. I see this a lot. I'm gonna go down to let's say third grade. I'm a third grade teacher. I'm teaching addition of fractions. But I have a child who's struggling because they don't know how to add. So, from the goodness of my heart as a third grade teacher, I'm gonna go back to first grade content and I'm gonna try and teach you how to add. So now I'm teaching addition, and this third grader is just back in first grade learning how to add. They're getting more fluent at adding. Teacher says, Great, now let's go add fractions. You start adding fractions, and the kid is like, I don't know how to do this. And teacher pulls their hair out, going, Why can't you get this? So this is where cognitive flow theory really matters because what we know about intervention and the human brain is we have to contextualize the gap inside of the new learning. If you teach me the gap alone, I don't know how to take that learning and now put it into the process of my brain for the new learning. So when you build intervention systems, the worst thing you can do is intervene on old content that is out of context for the new learning.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

Yeah. I and when you were talking to me about this, I immediately was thinking about when I taught physics. And I had juniors and seniors in a physics classroom that struggled with some of the algebra requirements that they had to know how to work within in order to do the physics problems. And so we would learn algebra through. Physics and I didn't take them out and go, okay, let's go back and learn algebra. Here's chapter one, and let's talk through blah, blah, blah, blah. Exactly. No, like we learned algebra as it related directly to the content of physics that we were also engaging in. And they would get it. And I feel like they got it at a deeper level than had I done some kind of pull out and they were just learning it separately. And I never thought about that. But it just makes sense that a kid would learn something at a deeper level when it's related to what they're already building file folders in their brain for.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

Absolutely. That's it. Is that the way the human brain learns without getting nerdy, the human brain makes connections. The human brain connects what it already knew to what it's trying to learn. And so when you have gaps, if you don't take the gap and connect it to the new thing, then the new thing has no way to grow a connection. So in your intervention systems, close gaps within the context of the grade level content. It doesn't mean you can't support old content, but you should never go back and support the old content absent of the grade level context in which they're trying to learn the new content.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

So we're talking about right now the tier two support. Tier two cannot be the compensation method for tier one instruction that is done poorly. You cannot have a tier two just accept 50% of the kids that failed and now expect that this tier two can pick up those failures. And so when we're talking about tier one instruction leaders, you have a responsibility to address when your teachers are not successful with a certain percentage of their kids in their classroom. I know you and I both had a lot of hard, hard conversations with teachers that wore it almost like a badge of honor when they would fail a certain amount of kids. And I that it's that could be its own podcast, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

But yes, it's growling into the microscope. Yeah, it is because some teachers think that that they're proud because they're their classes so hard. Look at how many kids I fail. And one of our great job. Exactly. One of our great mentors, Dr. Phil Warwick, and I will love that he said this forever. He said, I can get a hobo off the street to fail kids. It takes a great teacher to support kids and ensure they learn. I mean, anybody can fail kids. That's easy. So you, oh man, sorry, that one set me off a little bit. I need to probably go have a drink after this episode to show them. We'll get there.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

We'll get there. We'll get there. So, lesson of the day tier two can't compensate for a weak tier one. You got to get your tier one clean. And then we're talking about this 10, 15% of students that are struggling after tier one that we're pulling in with this really a little bit more intense tier two instruction.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Timely targeted and specific. Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

And you know, that can take on a bunch of structures. Um, you know, we talked about flex periods. There's also some what what uh is called win time, what I need, you know, little periods that schools have built into the day. Um, other academic labs that get built in during elective rotations. I work with a lot of elementary schools around the country and they're really good at this. You don't take electives from kids, but you rotate them around through a hybrid of some targeted intervention and elective. You can't take away PE or music or or or the arts or recess. You can't do that because the social emotional wellness is too important. But I've watched so many good elementary schools work these rotations where intervention is just one slice of all the elective options. So the kids get this blend. I think that's really, really awesome. And nowadays, why wouldn't we use more virtual intervention support? And I know you guys have a program that maybe you want to just mention really quickly.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

Yeah, we actually do. So the company I work for now is Edmonton, and we actually have um a program called TSI that is targeted skills instruction. And the whole idea is that a student is experiencing some kind of gap in the content that they're currently learning. We have a program called Exact Path where the kid comes in, they assess where they are, and then there's this little cute learning path that's real gamified for kids, and they get on this path to learning, and there's reporting structures to say what their progress is. And it's six weeks, um, six-week cycles where they just come in, they do this extra learning for six weeks, they're assessed at the end. Cool, you made it. You you have closed that gap, you're ready to move back on. And there's short little, you know, 20, 30 minute sessions with the kids and the teacher, and it's totally virtual. So our teachers come in and actually support the other teachers that are on site in the brick and mortar building. And it's really cool. But you there are ways, there are other ways that you can have students experience instruction that they need to catch up that don't require a teacher running around with their hair on fire within one classroom just at different stations within the room.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

And you said that now, like I know your and I's leadership was was a while back, you know, but 1960s. But but I would just urge everybody, Courtney has told us this now twice in this episode. Are you seeking out technological resources that make this a doable job for your teachers? Because effective intervention is individualized for students, but it has to be systematically individualized, which means technology now is our best friend. And everything that that these platforms can do for us now, we've got to make sure that we're making this job doable for our teachers. And so I I appreciate that you highlight that there are programs in your company and and even other places that we're not gonna talk about any other, but mine does it really well.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

If you want more information, just let me know. And and but seriously, there are a lot of opportunities out there and ways to do this that that can help kids and support teachers so that they are not continually overwhelmed. I think there is a whole other potential conversation that is about not just the academic interventions that need to take place with students that so that we can support them so that they are ready for learning experiences. And I think um that might be an episode coming in the near future.

SPEAKER_00 28:14

Um there's no way to fully talk about intervention if you're not also talking about the social and emotional well wellness of it. But um, as we say, that that's a podcast. That's exactly what we're doing.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

That's a podcast. And you cannot talk about behavior until you are talking also about academic, social, emotional, wellness, all of those pieces together because it all impacts behavior. That's right. So you can't come in and start talking behavioral interventions until you've really digested all the other pieces of the whole child. That sounds like you're eating a kid, and that's not what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

We don't need a whole kid, we just need when you're intervening for a kid, you have to consider all the different aspects of what is happening in their life and inside their brain.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

If your intervention plan depends on teacher sacrifice, it's gonna fail.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

Yeah. Right. If it depends on kids staying after school, it's gonna miss the ones who need need it the most.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

And if you are waiting on state testing data, it's too late.

SPEAKER_00 29:15

Yeah, it's too late. That's right. Well, uh, another great episode in the books.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

Thanks for the date.

SPEAKER_00 29:21

Thank you for the date.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

Let's go get a drink.

SPEAKER_00 29:23

Yes, it's drink time for sure. We just want to remind you to follow us on our social media platforms. Please subscribe to our newsletter for additional content. I'm Mario.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

And I'm Courtney.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

See ya.