Lead Well, Live Well | Tips to Avoid Leadership Burnout – Ep 009

Subtitle

Daily habits, smarter priorities, and real boundaries that keep the job from taking over.

Hosts: Courtney Acosta & Mario Acosta Bios: https://www.theedleadershippair.com/about-us Podcast: The EdLeadership Pair – Unfiltered Conversations for Today’s School Leaders  

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Episode Overview

Leadership in schools is never finished. There is always another email, another crisis, another initiative demanding attention. But when leaders allow the job to consume every ounce of their time and energy, something else begins to erode—marriage, family presence, health, and emotional capacity. In this deeply personal episode, Courtney and Mario share what it actually looks like to pursue work-life balance in high-capacity leadership roles. Drawing from their experience leading large high schools simultaneously, they unpack the traps that lead to burnout and the intentional systems that protect both professional excellence and personal well-being.

Big Ideas from This Episode

• The work will never be finished—prioritization is a leadership skill.

• Burnout lowers your leadership ceiling (The Law of the Lid – John Maxwell).

• Activity is not accomplishment (The Law of Priorities).

• Burned-out leaders create burned-out cultures.

• Glass balls vs. rubber balls: know what must be caught today and what can bounce.

• Relationships at home feel your leadership more than your campus does.

• Sustainable leadership requires visible boundaries.

Leadership Actions Recommended

1. Identify Your Top Three Daily Priorities.

Before the day begins, determine the two or three non-negotiables that must be completed. Everything else is secondary.

2. Build Intentional Morning or Evening Routines.

Create structure that protects your most important relationships. Even small daily rituals create stability and connection.

3. Communicate Capacity Honestly.

Use the ‘percentage’ conversation at home—some days you may only be able to give 40%. Partnership requires transparency.

4. Model Healthy Boundaries for Your Team.

Leave at a reasonable time. Take vacation. Avoid midnight emails. Your behavior sets the cultural norm.

5. Know Your Burnout Signals.

Emotional exhaustion, irritability, anxiety, and detachment are warning signs. Address them early before they escalate.

Resources Mentioned

• Maxwell, J. (2007). The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership.

• Sharma, R. (2018). The 5 AM Club.

• McKeown, G. (2014). Essentialism.

• Brown, B. (2018). Dare to Lead.

• Cloud, H., & Townsend, J. (1992). Boundaries.

• Marsh, N. (TED Talk). How to Make Work-Life Balance Work.

Closing Thought

Leadership is not measured by how late you stay; it is measured by what you sustain. The job will still be there tomorrow. The people at your dinner table won’t always be this age. Lead well. Live well.

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📸 Instagram: @edleadership_pair

▶️ YouTube: The EdLeadership Pair

🎥 TikTok: @theedleadershippair

🌐 Website & Newsletter: www.theedleadershippair.com

Join our growing community of school leaders navigating today’s challenges together.

Transcript

0:01

Can I tell you something that most leader spouses won't say out loud? We

0:06

don't compete with other people. We compete with the job. The emails, the

0:12

crisis, the just five more minutes. And the hard part, the job always wins.

0:19

Leadership doesn't just exhaust the leader. It slowly can drain the marriage. It can shorten patience with

0:26

your kids. It fills the house with stress that nobody talks about. And the

0:31

most dangerous part, the leader thinks they're doing it for their family while

0:37

unintentionally disappearing from it. During this episode, we're talking about work life

0:43

balance. Not the cute version, but the real one.

0:53

I'm Courtney. And I'm Mario. And this is the Ed Leadership Pair podcast. And today we are diving in

1:00

on some pretty personal at times conversations. Pretty real about how hard it can be in

1:09

schools to maintain a work life balance. So difficult. So difficult. And um I'm

1:15

trying not to cry from your intro because I feel like you were talking to

1:20

me. No, I was just talking in generalities. Just generally speaking, not not you per

1:26

se, but somebody like you, somebody that might be married to someone like you, I don't know. Yeah. Well, and you know what the

1:32

listeners maybe understand or don't, but we were high school principles at the exact same time. Um, in Texas, the

1:39

largest classification is called 6A, and we both led 6A high schools at the same

1:44

time. You moved on to be a chief in a large school district in the central

1:50

office while I was at the high school. So we we had every excuse to let the

1:55

jobs that we were doing um take precedence over our relationship, over our our um responsibilities as parents,

2:03

deprioritize our relationship with our parents or our siblings or our friends. And so this episode we're going to get

2:08

just a little bit personal with you all and and understanding that no matter how much you love your job, you shouldn't

2:16

live to work. You should just work to support your living. And so we'll talk

2:22

about this balance today in this episode of of how to avoid some of the traps. And so um what I want to let the

2:28

listeners know is there's a fantastic piece of literature written by John Maxwell. It's called the 21 irrefutable

2:35

laws of leadership. And so we're going to cite this book throughout the episode

2:41

multiple times. And so I just want you to know right up front if you're a leader and you haven't accessed this book or read through these 21

2:47

irrefutable laws. They apply to a lot. They apply to a lot of leadership, but they are going to specifically apply to

2:53

how you lead in a way to protect yourself, protect your organization, and protect the people you love. Right? Even

3:00

if you don't have a spouse or kids, you got to protect yourself in this job or the job will eat you up.

3:07

Yeah. You can get eaten up in any role, in any leadership role. Like I it could have happened as chief of operations in

3:13

the school district where I was absolutely. But I feel especially for principles and superintendent because

3:22

there's such an opportunity for the role to become your identity and then

3:28

everything else if you let that happen everything else will pay the price and as a matter of fact I remember when you

3:33

and I were both hired the superintendent that hired us and at the time I loved it and I was like yes I'm all in shout him

3:41

out Dr. Steve Flores. Dr. Flores and he said, "You, I am hiring you to be Miss McNeel." That's

3:47

right. Your job is to be Miss McNeel. And by God, did I fill my closet with blue and green?

3:53

And I was wearing every blue and green dress I could find. And I wanted to be everywhere at everything because I was

4:00

going to be Miss McNeel. And at the time, you were when I first got hired as principal at the high

4:06

school, you were a principal at the middle school. That's right. And don't let anybody tell you that being at a middle school is any easier than a high

4:13

school because you got the same amount of duty with less people to supervise. Less team. Yeah.

4:18

Less team. And so that was difficult. But then when you moved up to Westwood in my third

4:24

year, you came to the high school level and for two years we were both high school principles at the same time and

4:30

you got the speech about be Mr. Westwood. Yep. Exactly. And it was what was right

4:36

for the school. And if you don't put some boundaries on that and you let that

4:41

role become your identity, then your family, then everything else can can pay

4:47

the price. It can consume your your not only your energy, but it can consume all of your

4:52

relationships. It can consume your health, right? And so what'll happen to so many leaders is you just

4:59

unintentionally equate exhaustion with commitment. In other words, I'm just going to I'm going

5:04

to be at everything. I'm gonna give every ounce of my health, of my of my mental capacity, of my physical time.

5:12

And so what inadvertently can happen to great leaders is you think that that that that effort and that time in and

5:19

that energy in and that non-stop go commitment. You think that that's the

5:25

way to do the job and all that ends up happening is you burn yourself out and and you become completely overwhelmed

5:31

and overtaken by the the job and and really there's a lot of negative consequences that not just

5:37

professionally but personally that we're going to talk a little bit about and and I'll add too I think for both of us and I don't necessarily want to speak

5:44

for you but I feel like you would say this as well being a high school principal was my favorite job ever. It

5:53

was the most fun. I loved the relationship with the kids. I loved the relationships with the

5:58

parents. I love I mean, I got to be the queen bee on that camp. It was so fun.

6:04

Hey, news flash, you're still the queen bee in this wonderful home. I know there's now 3,000 of us.

6:11

There are less. Yeah, there are less of us, but two kids left at home. So, but yeah, but so it was the most fun job.

6:19

Like I and I know you would say that too, but it was by far the most

6:24

exhausting, the most draining. I can't think of any job I have had previously where I would come home in tears where I

6:32

would just be so emotionally taxed by what happened because you are dealing

6:37

with some heavy stuff. And I don't care if it's elementary, middle, or high

6:43

school principal, whatever level. and and I saw this across the board when I

6:49

worked at the district level what they would go through at the other levels and it's just intense and you are expected

6:56

almost to be on call 24 hours a day. I remember we were in Vegas

7:01

and sitting in the Cosmopolitan Hotel and I get a call that I have to step

7:07

away from a table because a student had passed away. And so in a lobby of a

7:14

hotel in Las Vegas, I am trying to plan the interventions that are going to come

7:19

the next day. How do we get all the counselors to the campus and where are they going to set up shop and who are

7:25

the kids that knew this child and like all the things and it automatically everything stopped like the world just

7:31

stopped and you can't hand that responsibility off to someone else. And yes, there are things that you can

7:36

delegate but there are absolutely things that you cannot. The 24/7 access. It's just non-stop for

7:43

for school leaders today. Not every principal or superintendent or school leader is married and has a

7:49

spouse and and any of that. But you have relationships and you have things that

7:54

matter in your life outside of work or if you don't, you should. And now's the time to start to maybe explore some of

8:00

that that you need to pick up some things outside because it cannot consume your entire being like that. It's not

8:06

healthy. Yeah. It's just not. Let's let's kind of start talking about some of the solutions. So, first and foremost, when

8:12

you're a school leader, the work is never finished. And that's a full stop. This is the kind of job that you could

8:18

literally work endless endlessly and still never finish the work. What I try

8:24

to do to support leaders who are struggling with balance is to help them understand the job won't be done. So,

8:31

don't ever wake up in the morning and say, "Okay, I'm going to finish this job today." Instead, you got to learn how to

8:36

prioritize your job to say what are the most important things that have to get

8:41

done today and what are the things that I can parse out or what comes next in the line of what's important. So, you

8:48

know, leaders, it's critical that you you work this job as not everything can be of the utmost importance. It'll wear

8:54

you out, right? So, you have to decide when I wake up today and it was it was a habit that I picked up from one of our

8:59

mentors, Pete Galavves, um who's a longtime superintendent. But Pete used to say in the morning before you go to

9:05

work, you should make yourself a list of whatever two or three things that before

9:10

you're done for the day, those have to get done, right? That those are the non-negotiable got to get done.

9:16

Everything else is gravy. Everything else is just is, you know, you you got ahead. But it's like, look, I can't I

9:21

can't leave work unless these three things are done. And then that way everything else you do, it can either be

9:26

paused, you can pick it up tomorrow. Um, right? This is the kind of job that it'll be there tomorrow. Right? There's

9:32

nothing stopping you. Go home and it'll be there tomorrow. Yeah. It's It's never going to be done.

9:38

And you you have to let it go. Like you have to walk out of the building and know that you're not going to let

9:44

yourself proceverate on it the rest of the evening as much as possible. Yeah. Yeah.

9:51

I I was not good at this. And you and our children in in a loving

9:57

in a very loving kind way. You guys have explained to me since I have left the campus principal ship that I brought all

10:03

the work home with me that that you know you've told me this and our kids have told me like dad you were home but you weren't home your body was here your

10:10

mind wasn't present your spirit wasn't present you were always on the job and

10:15

it was a hard it was a hard thing for me to swallow. It was a hard thing for me cuz I love my family and I was working

10:21

for my family. Yes, for me I I have career goals but all you know my goal was to make sure that my family was well

10:27

taken care of. So here I was pouring so much into my job that I was actually working counter to my goal.

10:32

Yeah. I was being not enough of a I wasn't present enough as a husband. I wasn't

10:38

present enough as a father because I was trying to just hit the job with brute force instead of knowing how

10:45

to find balance and knowing where to where to draw a line and be able to shut my my brain off and shut my emotions off

10:51

from work. Even though you came home every night in your previous job, the kids that I was more present even

10:58

though I was traveling. So I think you know for you listening uh leaders the job can can take everything from

11:04

you. You know in your effort to give everything to the job it can take everything from you know your ability to

11:10

be present for your family the the time and the attention that they need. And so that's that's just a good lesson from

11:15

those of us who maybe have done it not the best way is to find a way to draw a line and and leave work at work. It

11:22

it'll be there tomorrow. Um let me give we like to give resources for our

11:28

listeners is really three good books that I'm going to offer to you that can

11:34

begin to help you with the introspection about building work life balance. And

11:39

we're going to start with 5 a.m. Club by Robin Chararma. And this book emphasizes

11:45

what an intentional morning structure looks like. And it also will teach you

11:50

potential structures and systems about how to build boundaries to separate work

11:56

from home. So a really good uh offering there. Before you go on to the next one, can I

12:01

can I tell you we did that? Did you really? No. With you, my husband. We did that.

12:06

We did that. Okay. We Okay. So when we were both on campuses,

12:12

we actually set up a routine where we would get up, we would go try to go to bed early. Not as early as I wanted to

12:18

go to bed. She wants to go to bed at 7:30. Not 7:30, but maybe 8:30, but we would

12:25

try to go to bed early, get up at like 4:30, get dressed really fast. We would go to Orange Theory for an hour and do

12:32

our little craziness and then we would come back and get to sit down and have

12:37

coffee for 30 minutes before we started our day. And it was just really nice to get that time together, but it was a

12:43

really intentional structure that we set up to make sure that we saw each other

12:49

and spent time together. It was like a little date morning every morning that we would do it. And so when we didn't do

12:55

it, we felt like we missed out and I was like, "Ah, I didn't even get to see you today." And and all of that. And it's

13:00

funny because it has even continued now that we're not even having to do it at 5:00 a.m. because that's

13:06

crazy. We don't do orange there anymore because also we're old and

13:11

yeah, our joints couldn't handle anymore. We're kind of we're a little bit over that. It's a little too much. But we

13:16

still now we every morning that you're home, we get up early cuz the dog wakes

13:22

us up really early and which is why we got him. and then we go walk the dog for a few miles and then we come back and we

13:28

have coffee together and on the days we don't do it we feel like we missed out. So we have built these routines together

13:34

that allow us to kind of spend time and get that face to face and alone time

13:39

without the kids and all of that. So I just wanted to I don't know if you connected that when you

13:45

I didn't but I do know it's really good. Yes, building those morning structures.

13:54

Um, all right. The other two books we'll offer you is called Essentialism by Greg Macauen. And in this book, the core idea

14:00

is that if you don't prioritize your life, someone else will. Um, in the book, he he calls it essentialism.

14:06

Essentialists understand that not everything deserves equal attention and that that there's different parts of

14:12

your life you have to prioritize. And then finally, a book that we've talked a lot about in previous episodes is Dare to Lead with Bnee Brown. Because in part

14:19

of the book, in Dare to Lead, she talks about how there's this thing called armored leadership, where leaders use

14:26

overwork as an armor. In other words, thinking that uh I'm I'm the better uh

14:32

employee or I'm a better leader because I overwork. And you know, I've been around a few leaders like that. I won't

14:38

name any of them even though sometimes I want to. But just putting in time, being the last one in the building just so

14:45

people can see your light on. You know, I I work for leaders like that. They're like, "No, you're going to sit here and you're going to watch me work until 6:00

14:52

because when the lights are on, everybody thinks we're working hard." And so I I can't say this as directly

14:58

and a little bit snarky, you know, to for anybody listening. Just being at work and putting in hours doesn't make

15:04

you a good leader. Matter of fact, it kind of sends the opposite message to your organization. This armored leadership that Bnee Brown

15:11

writes about that just I'm here and so I'm better because I work longer hours. It actually is a setup for major

15:16

burnout. Yeah. It's like uh what is it? Joe Bennett on the office. Joe Bennett from the office on St. Patrick's Day and she wants to

15:22

stay there and he's like I am pleased with the amount of work I have done today. I'm pleased with the amount of work I've done today. That's right.

15:28

Yeah. When I supervised principles, there were definitely principles that did wear it like a badge of honor that

15:34

they would be so I'm so exhausted. I had to stay so late and I had to do this and do that. And I'm like,

15:40

I don't think you're really prioritizing your time and I don't think you're delegating appropriately and I don't

15:45

like you're actually not that's not how it should be. Let's let's talk about some opportunities where you can offload

15:52

some of that stuff to your team. That's right. and and we had really good mentors to talk about that taught us to

16:00

you know you you set a time and you go home you know you go home at a reasonable time and Dr. Phil Warick was

16:06

a good mentor of ours and I remember working for Phil. You know, the buses would roll and he'd stay about another

16:11

30 minutes and you then you'd see him turn the light off and get up and go home to his family. And it when the boss

16:17

does that, it gives everybody else permission to do it. And so I carried that for the remainder of my time as a

16:22

principal. I used to stay about 30 to 45 minutes on a regular basis after that last kid left

16:28

the building. And then I would get on the radio because I knew all my APs still had the radios on and say, "Hey

16:34

everybody, it's time to go home. Thanks for a great Thanks for a great job today. You guys did great work. Everybody go home to your families or go

16:40

home to your to your personal time. We got to get out of this building." So it, you know, it's the opposite. You

16:47

shouldn't walk around with a badge saying, "I worked long." You should say we were so efficient during the day because we care so much about balance

16:53

that the leader is going to set the tone of of getting out of the building or getting away from the job and bringing

16:59

balance. Don't be Joe Bennett. Don't be Joe Bennett. And and we'll tie this to the uh irrefutable laws of

17:04

leadership from John Maxwell. I'm going to bring up three laws. Law number one, it's called the law of the lid. And what

17:10

Maxwell teaches us is that the leader's effectiveness is capped by the leader's personal capacity. So burnout lowers

17:18

your lid, right? So if you burn yourself out, your lid comes down. Uh second, the

17:23

law of priorities. Leaders understand that activity is not accomplishment. Just sitting there till 8:00 with the

17:30

lights on doesn't mean you're accomplishing a whole lot. Uh and finally, the law of solid ground. Trust

17:36

is built through integrity, and that includes integrity for your family and

17:42

your home life. I like that. Can I ask you a question? Yes, ma'am. talked about burnout lowers the lid. Do you think in any of your

17:50

roles in public education you ever got close to burnout? Yes. Yes. There were times that um that

18:00

you had to come to school because I was in the back of an ambulance because of what felt like a heart attack.

18:06

That did happen. But of course, thank God, knock on wood, was more of a anxiety attack brought on by eating

18:12

incorrectly, by o over drinking coffee. Honestly, drink too much coffee and not

18:19

enough water. Um, and our friend Tina Bogin, Dr. Bogren, would say, "Yeah, dummy. You got to drink the stupid water." Um, and by overstressing myself.

18:27

So, yeah, was I ever close to burnout? Yeah. sometimes to the point of where my secretary Amanda, wonderful Amanda, was

18:34

like, "Uh, boss, I think maybe we had to call 911 because you are not

18:39

Yeah. coherent or or looking like you're Thank God for her. Thank God for her. Well, great people put other great

18:45

people around them to take care of you, right?" And Amanda was an angel that way. And how how important to know what your

18:51

signs what your personal signs of burnout are because your signs look really different than my signs.

18:57

Yeah. Did you ever feel like you got close to burnout? Yes. Yes. It It looked like

19:05

overeotional exhaustion and like I I can't do this

19:10

anymore. I can't do this for another day. I can't

19:15

be on this cycle and this wheel that feels like it's never ending and I can't

19:21

make headway. Like I can't make progress the way I want to make it because I have some massive barrier. And then when I

19:28

when I got to that point, it was like everything just started caving in. Like

19:33

it would just all pile on and I would recognize everything as a problem or everything is an issue. And until I

19:39

could step away from it fully and like regain my sense of balance, it just was

19:46

totally overwhelming and so uncomfortable. And so I think it's important for leaders to recognize

19:53

your signs. Like how do you know when you're getting close to that? And then what are the things that you need to do?

19:58

Some of us need to go to the emergency room. Some of us need a hot bath and to go take a run. But it so it looks

20:04

different for everybody. I don't know. Find your peace. But yeah, I think that's so important. Well, yeah. You know, and as your

20:10

husband, I'll talk now, not as the school leader, but as your husband, I I can tell when you are nearing burnout at

20:16

work. Oh. Um because again, I get cranky. No, I would never say such a thing. You

20:22

are a wonderful person. I thought we were going to be honest today. Thought we were being honest. Everybody who's listening knows that I

20:29

am telling the truth that you are a perfect person. There were some times that you needed

20:34

you needed me to take on more than you normally need me to take on. That's what it would look like at home. You would

20:40

say, "I can't I can't do dinner tonight." Or you used to say this, you sometimes still say this to me. I just

20:46

can't with the kids. There was just a full stop. Just that's it. I just can't with the kids. That no

20:52

further direction. just take these humans and get them to hell away from me. And and so, you know, we we knew at

20:58

home when you had hit a spot where you had overdone it at work. And um you

21:04

know, and I know you've described things that that in the way that I manifested, too. And that's the dangerous part is

21:10

overworking yourself has such a heavy impact on your relationships, right? Yeah. Well, and we would use a strategy,

21:17

too, where sometimes we would come home and I would say, "Hey, I I'm I'm at like 27%."

21:26

That's that's all I've got. And you would be like, "Okay, I'm I'm at like 85. I got it. I can handle this and that. Whatever we got to do for the

21:32

night." And some nights you would come home and you'd be like, "Cool. I'm at a 40. We're going to order dinner." And then we're just getting into

21:38

Yeah. So, let's talk about this. Who taught us this? Bne Brown. Is this a Bnee Brown thing? I think so. Why is everything Bern

21:44

Brown? All great ideas. So, apparently this is the Bnee Brown podcast. So, maybe we should just invite

21:49

her on. I was going to say if anybody knows in Austin, like she's here, come on to our podcast. No, but um

21:56

let us know. Bene you want to come? We'll we'll be glad to have you. Glad to have you on. Um in a relationship, it's a misnomer that each

22:04

person gives 100%. The idea is, especially when you're two highle leader professionals, that each of you together

22:12

needs to get to 100%. So what Courtney's saying is some days she'd come home and be like, look, I'm nowhere close to my 50. I'm I'm at 20. And so I knew, okay,

22:20

I got to be at 80 tonight or I got to be at 80 this week. I'll carry the load. Because I knew and I trusted in my

22:26

partner that there were weeks where I'm like, I'm at 40, as you said, and and I need you to step up and carry the other

22:31

pieces of it. So um whether your spouse or your partner or your friends or

22:36

whatever you know are high level leaders I think if you're a highle leader you have to know that you have to verbalize

22:43

to the people around you I'm not able to give you my normal max right now and so

22:49

this is what I'm going to need in the interim or you know hey let me take let me take a beat and get away and I'll

22:54

come back. Um, that was something I know I I didn't do well in my younger years and got better as my hair fell out was I

23:01

let my emotions at home be impacted by all the work that had happened during the day. And so I learned over the

23:07

course of time because you were amazing and taught me how to do this was, hey, why don't you take a break? Just step

23:14

away for five minutes. Get that emotion out and don't take it out on the family.

23:19

Don't take it out on on your on your inner circle. We're all human. So you come home from work and you're carrying the crap of the

23:25

day. So it's really you're walking into your safe space. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, finally you're

23:30

right. I've been I've been Mr. Perfect all day long at work together eating all the crap from all the people.

23:36

So yeah, I get home to my safe zone and then it's like here it all comes and that's not fair to your people who are

23:42

in your safe space. So yeah, that was something you really helped me get better at was it's okay to feel that way and unload,

23:48

but don't unload on us. unload and then come be a regular human with us. Yeah.

23:53

And have important it is to have the conversation with your significant other or someone else that you're spending

24:00

time with like that that you're in close proximity to to say look here's where I am today and just

24:06

name it. Just call it out because you can't continue on with the evening. It will

24:11

bring it has potential could have potential in some relationships

24:17

to start to not anyone that we know anyone's name

24:22

maybe it rhymes with Wario but I don't know I'm just saying it could happen where it comes out and it causes a fight

24:28

because of this lack of communication about where you really are. H you see listeners when Courtney was

24:34

like let's talk let's talk about burnout I was like oh I'm going to get hammered. Yeah I'm all

24:39

I'm going to get hammered. work life balance. This is a pick on Mario episode. I knew it was coming, but you

24:44

know, I think it's really important that we communicate to leaders that in a a

24:50

leadership role, everything feels urgent, but very little actually is that urgent,

24:57

right? Leadership is this neverending to-do list. But but the skill is h knowing how to not finish the work is

25:04

how to discern what what is most important for today. And you and I had this analogy that we used ever since we

25:10

were young leaders together that like being a leader because the job is bigger than the time of the day. You're like

25:17

juggling a lot of balls at once, right? You're like this this performer juggling all these balls. Now, some of the balls

25:23

you're juggling are made of glass cuz they're so important. They're so timely. Um it's a parent and

25:29

Yeah. It's a parent who's going to call the superintendent or it's it's a kid who whose life is at risk if you don't

25:35

deal with it. Right. So, these are some glass balls. Those, they have to be caught and dealt with right now. Some of

25:41

the other balls you're juggling, they're like rubber balls. They're like rubber hand balls. If they drop today, you know what the worst thing is? They're going

25:47

to bounce right back up and be be there tomorrow, right? That one email, it's a rubber ball. Let it bounce. It's not the

25:54

most important thing today. So, I I know you and I always had this analogy that we helped each other with is like, do

26:00

you know your glass balls and don't let those drop? Those are the ones you got to catch today. the rubber balls, you

26:06

know, they might it's okay. Those are going to have to fall and they're just going to bounce right back up. Now, a rubber ball can turn into a glass ball

26:12

if you drop it enough times, right? If you leave something unattended long enough, and I think that's the skill for leaders

26:17

is you got to know what to prioritize. You got to know how to balance and you got to know how to be strategic so that

26:24

um things are handled in a way that that um addresses all of those really critical needs.

26:29

Yeah. Yeah. And I'll add too, I I think it is so critical and important, especially if you are a leader of

26:36

leaders and you have young leaders under your care that you are supporting, that

26:41

you demonstrate a healthy balance of work and home, and you're not answering

26:49

emails at midnight that they can see the time on it, and that you're not, you know, refusing to take a vacation

26:55

because, oh my god, I can't leave. And we, we've already talked about that. If you can never leave, then there's something wrong. Like if you can't

27:01

delegate anything, you are not getting your team where they need to be to stay. What a horrible message to say to a

27:06

leader, no, you can't take a vacation. Yeah. Well, that message it sends to the entire organization. No one is that

27:13

important. No. That you can't take a small vacation. Absolutely. You know, we're not saying disappear

27:19

forever, but yeah, what a good point. Yeah, because burned out leaders create burned out cultures and all you're going

27:25

to do is end up burning out the rest of your team as well and nobody's functioning at a high level at that

27:31

point. So you have to create a sustainable work life balance and show

27:36

that to the leaders that you are supporting so that they also do that. And um you know a good team will cover

27:44

down for each other. A good team will recognize when one team member has a lot of glass balls in the air and

27:49

is like, "Hey, let me help with that one. Let me support you and let me take this one from you and I'll grab it." And

27:55

maybe the leader is taking that from their team members and and saying, "I I

28:01

you are clearly about to be underwater. Let me help you. You have too many glass balls. Let's let's redistribute these glass balls um

28:08

so that you don't end up dropping them or burning yourself out." Um let me throw in some books. Again,

28:14

this is a an educational podcast for educational leaders. So, um, one of the

28:20

books that I think when it comes to building these boundaries is a book called Boundaries by Henry Cloud and

28:25

John Townsen. And in this book, it talks about how leaders without boundaries

28:31

eventually resent the people they serve. So, in this book, Boundaries, is all about setting up those boundaries so

28:37

that you can escape your job. You can be effective and efficient and a world-class leader, but have strong

28:43

boundaries around you to protect you from from wearing yourself out. Because you said it, you said burnt out leaders

28:48

built burnt out cultures. God, what a what a great statement. Um, also I want to offer that was a great statement.

28:54

You are great. You are just all great. Listen, there's another great resource, a resource. It's a TED talk from Nigel

29:01

Marsh. How to make work life balance work. And so the argument of this TED

29:06

talk is not that work life balance is some grand design. It's just that

29:12

there's small daily strategic decisions that you have to make and you have to make them intentionally so that you

29:18

create that this work life balance. It's not this like far off in the future like oh I'm striving for work life balance.

29:25

It's literally a day-to-day um approach to leadership. Yeah. And if I could add a little a

29:33

little selfishly, but just for the women out there that are also moms, and not

29:39

that the dads are not important, we've talked about you being a dad and the importance of all of that, but I just

29:44

want to add for the moms, and I I have three daughters. We have three daughters and one son and I know for them I wanted

29:52

to always model what this looked like in a healthy way to

29:59

um so one of our daughter number two would always she would say you're such a

30:04

boss lady like you're such a boss lady and so I wanted to it was important to me to act in a way that was like a

30:12

healthy boss lady while still being powerful and still being strong but at the same same time still being a mom.

30:19

And that came because I remember um I think it was in like my second or third year of being a high school principal

30:26

and I had a a conversation with my oldest daughter and she said something to the effect of, "Yeah, I just knew you

30:33

were never going to be the mom that was there at the Valentine's Day party and it was like, you talk about stabbing in the heart."

30:40

It just gutted me. I felt so horrific. I just want to encourage the moms out

30:46

there, especially, it's so easy for a mom to get just enraptured in her role

30:51

and wanting to be powerful and strong and do everything and feel like you got to stay double time and you don't. You

30:58

really don't. You can find boundaries. You identify where they are. You hold firm to them as much as you can. And

31:03

yes, sometimes there are exceptions and that obviously is going to happen. But just encouraging all the all the mom

31:09

leaders out there, you can still get it. like it's it's it's there for you. But I will just give you kudos and

31:16

credit that you were not only a badass boss lady, but you've been an absolutely

31:22

world class mom and wife. So, you are a great model for our listeners to uh to follow.

31:27

So sweet. Well, um as we do at the end of every episode, we would like to encourage you

31:33

to continue to follow us on our social media handles, both on Instagram and on YouTube. Um, we continue to add content

31:40

and and send content to our subscribers. Um, a lot of the books and the research and the resources, we package that and

31:46

get that to you so that you can use it in your day-to-day. So, if you haven't yet subscribed to our newsletter, please

31:51

do so at www.theedleershippair.com. So, here's the truth that every leader

31:57

needs to hear. The work will never be finished. There's always going to be one

32:02

more email, one more parent, one more initiative. But your kids, they won't always be this age. Your spouse won't

32:09

always wait patiently. And your health won't always give you a second chance. If you sacrifice your marriage, your

32:16

friendships, your personal life for your school, you don't win. And neither does your school. If you build a strong

32:22

culture at work and you create distance at home, also not leadership. Leadership

32:28

really isn't measured by how late you stay, but it's measured by what you sustain. And the people who feel your

32:35

leadership the most aren't always the ones that are in your school building. They're sitting at your dinner table. So

32:40

go home. The work will still be there tomorrow. And with that, we're going to sign out. I'm Mario.

32:46

I'm Courtney. Thanks for tuning in with us. Thanks so much.