The EdLeadership Pair: Unfiltered Conversations for Today’s School Leaders
As two long-time school leaders, we discuss contemporary issues that today's school leaders face. We offer insights and advice for leaders, and share some of our favorite leadership experiences. You will also catch a few married couple jokes sprinkled throughout : )
The EdLeadership Pair: Unfiltered Conversations for Today’s School Leaders
Why Your Instructional Program Is Broken | And How to Fix It – Ep 014
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🎧 Episode Overview
In this episode, Courtney and Mario take on a hard truth that many schools still avoid: most campuses do not have an instructional strategy problem. They have an instructional leadership problem. When leaders fail to define what quality instruction actually looks like, teachers are left to guess, and students end up experiencing inconsistent learning from room to room.
The conversation pushes past surface-level improvement efforts and challenges the common school habit of trying to fix instruction one strategy, one program, or one initiative at a time. Courtney and Mario argue that leaders must build a coherent instructional program with a clear vision, shared language, meaningful monitoring, coaching, and teacher ownership.
More than a critique, this episode is a practical roadmap for leaders who want instruction to stop being random and start becoming systemic.
💡 Big Ideas from the Conversation
Random acts of instructional improvement do not create a real program.
An instructional vision is not just a collection of strategies.
If leaders do not define instruction, every classroom becomes a private interpretation.
Good lesson planning is about intentional design, not compliance paperwork.
Resources are not instruction.
Monitoring instruction should be growth-based, not deficit-based.
Walkthroughs alone will not improve instruction. Reflection will.
An effective instructional program is systemic.
🧠 Leadership Actions Recommended in This Episode
1. Build a clear instructional vision
Define what quality instruction looks and sounds like at the daily lesson level. Make the vision concrete enough that teachers can use it in planning and practice.
2. Create a common instructional vocabulary
Clarify what key terms mean in your setting so that feedback, planning, and coaching all happen with shared understanding.
3. Train teachers to translate the vision into lesson design
Do not assume teachers automatically know how to move from a broad instructional framework to daily lesson preparation. Teach that process directly.
4. Stop treating lesson plans like compliance documents
Use lesson planning to focus on whether instruction has been intentionally designed.
5. Monitor instruction with visible measures tied to the vision
Build clear, measurable indicators that show where teachers are strong and where they can improve within the instructional framework.
6. Use instructional data for coaching, not just evaluation
Create feedback systems that help teachers polish practice rather than simply labeling performance in deficit terms.
7. Let professional learning grow out of actual instructional data
Use schoolwide patterns and teacher-specific feedback to shape PD that is targeted, relevant, and useful.
8. Use teachers as part of the development process
When teachers excel in specific parts of the framework, create opportunities for peers to observe them, learn from them, and be coached by them.
9. Bring teachers fully into the improvement cycle
Reflection, collaboration, and ownership must be part of the system.
10. Audit your instructional program before next year begins
Use this episode as a leadership audit: vision, vocabulary, teacher training, monitoring, coaching, and reflection. If one of those pieces is missing, your program is incomplete.
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Today we're going to get honest about what's happening in schools. Schools don't have an instructional strategy problem. They have an instructional leadership problem. And when leaders don't clearly define what quality instruction looks like, then teachers are left to guess. And if teachers are left to guess and make up answers on their own, then students get inconsistent instruction that is not always the highest form of excellence that we would want our kids to have. So in today's episode, we want to talk about how leaders actually build a high-quality instructional program, not just chasing fads or the latest shiny new thing that comes across our table, not just putting an instructional model on a poster, but actually building a quality program. I'm Courtney.
SPEAKER_01And I'm Mario.
SPEAKER_00And this is the Ed Leadership Pair Podcast. Welcome.
SPEAKER_01Welcome to another great episode. Yes, yes. Today we're going to be talking about creating an effective instructional program. So here's, I think, the question we want to begin with. If instruction matters as much as we all say that it does, then why is it that a lot of leaders are trying to improve instruction one strategy at a time? Student discourse, increase student engagement, increase your use of questioning strategies. But this like strategy by strategy approach, or even worse, it's one program at a time. Hey, let's buy this program, let's use this program, let's put them on this program. This piecemeal approach to instruction is not a vision that helps teach our teachers what we expect. It's not a vision that includes teachers' voices in what is it that students need to experience when they're trying to learn any content? And so there's all these random acts of instructional improvement. Grab this off this shelf, buy this off of this program, jump on the latest instructional fad. And yet none of this is really doing anything to support our teachers in supporting kids improve their learning.
SPEAKER_00Okay. So that was a passionate rant that you've had.
SPEAKER_01Sorry about that.
SPEAKER_00Moving forward, we're gonna spend our time today talking about how you can move forward in the building out and development of an effective instructional program. So we'll we'll start talking about developing a vision. We'll talk about how you monitor and measure and using coaching and professional learning to constantly look for ways that you and your staff can improve in these areas. And we're also gonna talk a little bit about making sure that your teachers are a part of this cycle that should be a continual improvement cycle. So I want to ask you because you do, I mean, hundreds of days a year, you are traveling across the country, California, Arkansas, you're in Chicago, you're obviously in Texas, you're all over the place, and you see what instruction looks like. Principals have you come in and do walks. You are talking to leadership teams. Um, you are in it so often. So, what are you actually seeing as far as instruction when you're digging in with teams in this content?
SPEAKER_01Do you want me to give you an honest answer? Or are we worried about the feelings of some of the people that might hear?
SPEAKER_00I mean, I feel like we're doing a podcast, and if we just painted everything as rosy and peach keen, then there's no point in doing the podcast. So let's let's be honest about what what you're seeing.
SPEAKER_01Fair enough. They get to put boots on ground in classrooms all over the country. And this even goes back to court. So I'll throw myself in here. You and I were in schools for a long time, so I'll even include my own classrooms in some of this. Students are really struggling to meaningfully be a part of today's classrooms. Now that's a generalization. I don't want any teacher that hears this to say, oh, that's not what my room looks like. That's awesome. Congratulations to you. But generally, what I see as I travel the country is that students are struggling to meaningfully take part in their educational process in a traditional school setting. And what that looks like is teachers working really hard. So let me say that to you right up front. Every classroom I'm in around the country, the teachers are making great efforts. So I want to be clear this is not an effort issue. I think the people that are in our profession, and you know, you and I have talked about this. Over a quarter of educators have left the profession since 2021. So the people that are still with us or the people that's crazy.
SPEAKER_00A quarter of educators have left since 2021.
SPEAKER_01Quarter of educators at all levels, whether you're talking about teachers, building leaders, superintendents, or people in a central office, right? So yeah, listen, we've gone through the great educational crash, if you want to talk about it, of our lifetime. And those of us that have stayed, right, we stay because we want to be here. We want to help. We're all trying to support student learning. So I want to be clear that what I'm seeing is not a lack of effort, it's a lack of our understanding of how students learn today. It's a lack of understanding of how to execute classroom instruction in a way that activates student learning so that the learners are the owners of the learning, and it's not a one-way street of us just trying to shove content at students. Because that's really what I see. I see a lot of educators working really hard to shove a lot of content at children. And the way it's coming at the children, it doesn't match the modality of the way that our children learn in today's in today's environment for a lot of reasons. Mainly because our children have been indoctrinated in in um uh fast-paced, adaptive digital technology from the moment almost that they're conscious. What I'm seeing instructionally in most classrooms is a very outdated approach to instruction that no longer matches the modality needs of the learners today. So, this is the hard part for a lot of the teachers in the classrooms I'm in I'm in, is they've probably been successful for a long time. Hey, I've taught 20 years, I've taught 15 years. For a lot of my career, this probably worked. But you know what? If you're asking me to be honest, it's just not working anymore. Yeah. The traditional methods of instruction are not working. And let me say one more thing. You know what else I see in classrooms nowadays? Our children today are less willing to be compliant. That's just not baked into the brains of kids anymore. And you and I have said this is an apolitical show. So I don't want to get into the sociology or the politics behind that. But for a lot of instructors that I see, it's like, hey, here's how I always taught. This is the lesson I always used. So we have to really understand what engages the learning brain in today's classrooms. And we need to try and help our teachers understand what they can do to engage the learning brain. Because what breaks my heart ultimately is you watch all these educators working their tails off, working their fingers to the bone, and their kids aren't learning. And it's like, good God, there's nothing sadder to me than watching people try so hard and it just not working.
SPEAKER_00Let's let's talk of building a full instructional program. And I think you start by creating an instructional vision. I had it on my little agenda format, and I had, I think I had like an eight-year plan from Hignil High School. It was so insane of what we were gonna do each year and how we were gonna progress and move forward. And so talk a little bit, if you will, because I know you did this. How do you actually go about creating a vision that is meaningful? What does that look like?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so let's talk about that. And and if you are wondering why Courtney and I are laughing about her um agendas, is because if you go back to episode 13, we talked a lot about Courtney's agendas. And so if you're like, what is that inside joke? Hey, go back and listen to episode 13.
SPEAKER_00They're really strategic plans. They're not agendas.
SPEAKER_01But you'll get caught up on what that inside joke is.
SPEAKER_00All right, well, all right, instructional vision, go.
SPEAKER_01Well, let's first talk about what is an instructional vision. All right, and the way I'm gonna help our listeners understand is this gets thrown out around, gets thrown out a lot. Have a model of instruction, have a vision for instruction. There's a framework for instruction. Let's let's just make this easy. What we mean by an instructional vision is not simply a collection of instructional strategies. So I'm gonna tell you a quick analogy that I use when I train school leaders across the country. One of the mistakes that we make as leaders is we try and train instruction at the strategy level only. We pick and choose individual instructional strategies that do have proof that they will support learning. However, that is akin to going to a five-star restaurant and ordering off the menu, but having no idea what a meal is. So let me explain that out. Let's say you go to your favorite five-star restaurant and you sit down and you look at the menu. Every item, every dish on that menu is of top quality. However, if you don't understand how to order a meal, you're just gonna haphazardly start picking menu items off this menu and you're gonna get a bunch of good stuff. However, you might have accidentally ordered three appetizers and two desserts. And that doesn't mean you ate a good meal. Each one of those things you ordered is gonna taste good, but it's not gonna do anything to help you create a meal that is effective for your body. So if we take that analogy and we talk about what we don't do well as leaders for teachers, is we're always asking teachers to shove strategies into their instruction. Turn and talks, student discourse, student agency, collaborative groups, the flipped classroom, blended learning activities. I mean, we could list, right, hundreds, if not thousands, of strategies. They're all great strategies, but we're just haphazardly ordering off of a menu without understanding what's the meal we're trying to eat. How do you build a meal? Right. And so an instructional vision has to be a holistic description of what an effective daily lesson entails. Down to the day. What does it mean when I sit down as a teacher to build out a quality lesson? What are the things I must build? Now, you can give me a lot of strategy ideas. Help me, give me menu items so that I can pick and choose, or I can lean on my own experience to build out these sections. But most of the time, the mistake that our leadership that I see leaders make is they just don't help paint the picture, the overall picture, the vision. What does the student brain need in order to learn most effectively? And how do I design a daily lesson plan to do that?
SPEAKER_00Love it. So that is where we're starting. We're starting with an instructional vision. And I think we could do a whole episode on just creating that and strategies for creating that instructional vision. But a huge piece of that, and you kind of mentioned it, is this idea of defining the terminology and making sure everybody's on the same page with what we're talking about. And when we say feedback, this is what feedback means. When we talk about introducing new content, this is what that means. When we talk about the context of learning, that's what that looks like. So whatever your words are, they are really powerful, especially when you're talking about how you're using them to give teachers feedback or how teachers are using this framework or this model to then plan their lessons. The words are actually really important. And so defining those terms for teachers and the rest of your team is critical.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, more than critical, I'll say this. If you don't define quality instruction, then every single classroom becomes a private interpretation.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that that clarity is not a luxury we can afford to have in instructional leadership. It's the starting point of you have to create that clarity for your entire staff. So what's been really interesting is of course, in in my industry in ed tech, we teach kids K-12. We actually have some adult learners, we have asynchronous types of lessons, we have synchronous lessons. And so it was really important for us as we continue to develop and refine our instructional model and our framework that this transcended any particular grade level. It transcended any particular subject area. When we talk about a framework with our staff, it is something that is to be used across the board. And it is kind of agnostic to any particular subject area, grade level, or even modality because it's just what we believe to be true about good instruction for students.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I would concur with you. We're talking about pedagogical understandings of what the human brain needs and designing out the pedagogical non-negotiables inside of a lesson. It shouldn't matter if you're a five-year-old or a 12th grader. Now, the strategy delivery, right? The way in which you do that, of course, I am not saying that a 12th grader and a five-year-old learn the same. But what I'm saying is, as humans, there are there are instructional conditions we need. And as a school system, if leaders would take that bull by the horns and say, look, as a system, these are the non-negotiable instructional conditions that we are going to require. Now, use your expertise, teacher, at your level with your kids in your environment and your particular needs to use strategies that manifest these non-negotiable instructional pedagogical conditions. That's the key about an instructional vision.
SPEAKER_00Can I tell you what I thought about as you were saying that though? You're talking about the strategies have to be different. I would love to see a Socratic seminar in kindergarten with the very hungry caterpillar. Like, could you imagine what the babies would say about the questioning of the very, you know, asking, putting them in a little Socratic seminar circle and then having them talk about what do you think is gonna happen next? And then I don't know.
SPEAKER_01I love that. And that would that seem like a really, really high, high engagement and meaningful.
SPEAKER_00Sorry, my ADHD ADHD brain just went off on a whole other tangent, thinking about kinders in a Socratic seminar with where the wild things are. I don't know. Anyway, sorry, that was way off base, but let's move on. So you tapped into something that we also wanted to talk about that is sometimes can be the bane of existence for teachers, and that is bum bum bum, the lesson plan. Let's let's talk about that because I think it has gotten a bad rap for for legitimate reasons that we can also talk about and do an entire podcast about, but let's talk about lesson planning and how that's kind of the next step is developing this framework of a lesson plan. And why why do we do that? What what is the purpose of a lesson plan?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, concerning lesson planning, so lesson planning is one of those things that usually makes teachers cringe. And honestly, as a leader, it could make me cringe too, because what we want to make sure is we are gonna talk about lesson design as a true process for instructors to intentionally design effective instruction and not as paperwork that has to be turned in so that somebody can check off a list that hey, this teacher turned in a plan. All right. So I want to be clear up front. Courtney and I are gonna talk about lesson planning, but we're talking about teachers designing effective lessons intentionally. That's what a plan is, not having to sit down and write 14 pages of uh compliance documents. I have never found in my 20 years of leadership having teachers burning lesson plans ever to be an effective use of their time, nor did it ever really impact their instruction in a positive way.
SPEAKER_00I would 100% agree with that. And I have never seen in a place where lesson plans were required that there was even valuable feedback on the lesson plans coming from the administrative group because nobody has time to do that. And so it it was a complete waste of time. I have seen areas when you have a teacher that is struggling that you can use that as a coaching device and you are having them turn it in because you are wanting to give them feedback on it and you're wanting to talk through why they should make sure and include certain sections of that or whatever, how that they are you want to show that they are being intentional about the way they're planning their lessons, as you said. So I could see it as a coaching device. However, never have I seen where teachers are turning in weekly lesson plans that that has been any effective use of time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So as part of this effective instructional programming process, you start with a vision, but here's the critical next step. Now the school must begin to develop the individual teachers' understanding of how to translate the vision from a simple process, right? Hey, this is the process of what we mean when we see quality instruction. And now, how do we actually get teachers to design daily instructional lessons and then sequenced lessons that turn into effective units of instruction to manifest the instructional vision in their intentional plans? A lot of schools, a lot of leaders that I work with that, everybody knows that instruction is important. We value instruction, instruction matters. We every leader, hey, instruction matters, but listen, how many schools ever train their teachers how to translate an instructional vision into a daily lesson plan? I'm not talking about writing a lesson plan. I'm talking about when a teacher sits down in a quiet moment to be prepared for tomorrow's children. Their mind should be using this vision of instruction to start to populate. Here's how I'm going to be ready for my children for tomorrow. So, you know what, Courtney, I used to tell my high school staff, I said, I don't care where you write down a lesson plan. I don't care if you write it on a napkin. I don't care. It's not about where you write it down. It's about have you prepared to manifest these non-negotiable conditions in our instructional vision. Leaders have to train and support and then hold accountable their teachers for actually designing instruction that aligns to the vision of what we say we want for our kids in every classroom.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I think too that if you really give teachers clarity of expectations with their instructional framework and what you would expect to see in a lesson, it actually creates more autonomy because they're just they get to fill in the blanks with their particular teaching style. You have some teachers that you know they are, we've talked about them before. They're the storytellers. They're the ones who have kids like on the edge of their seats, ready for what happens next in the story. And they can do that that way. And and it it is super engaging, and the kids are all in, but they're still thinking about how am I providing kids feedback? How am I creating a classroom um environment where students are ready and able to learn? How am I having them apply their knowledge after they learn this? Like they're still going through those same thought processes, but it gives teachers autonomy to teach the way that is most aligned to their style. And so you should never be scripting things for teachers and you shouldn't make them script out their lessons. You train them to audit their planning against a framework of instruction that is then represented in this lesson plan template, right? Would you agree with that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. Even though I would say this is where maybe for the first time you and I can do a little bit of going back and forth here. I don't even know that a template is necessary. It's not about the template, it's about teaching me in my brain what are the mental conditions, the the processes, what is the process of conditions that I must manifest in my lesson? I've seen teachers court who don't have to write a thing down.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I'm not saying they have to fill out the template. There we go. I'm just saying the template provides them guidance as to what you're expecting.
SPEAKER_01Sure.
SPEAKER_00So I don't, it doesn't matter if they never fill it out, but they have the clarity of what it is written in whatever you want to call that document.
SPEAKER_01Gotcha, gotcha. So it's it's a manifestation of the vision. I'm gonna fight you right now. Let's fight. Let's fight. It's a manifestation of the vision. That's what you mean by template. Yeah, got it. All right.
SPEAKER_00But also, I mean, I think we also know we've worked with enough teachers that teachers are sometimes a little type A and they are sometimes people pleasers and they want to get the A on everything and they want to do it just right. And so I think there are a lot of teachers that because they want to be able to prove to themselves that they are doing a good job. Some teachers might like to fill out a template.
SPEAKER_01I don't disagree. But don't knock it.
SPEAKER_00I don't knock it. Some of us like a plan, man. Some of us don't go willy-nilly out into that good night. Like we know we know the past.
SPEAKER_01I'm not saying I go willy-nilly out into the goodnight. And that's what I want to be clear. Listeners hear this.
SPEAKER_00Look, I don't want to write it on a napkin that somebody's gonna blow their nose on and it's gone. Fair, fair. I've lost it then.
SPEAKER_01Or wipe another part of their body with me.
SPEAKER_00All right. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Now we're off the rails. I'm not disagreeing with you. I agree. All I'm trying to say is good planning can occur with or without writing something down. So what I always said was, I'm not gonna get hung up on if you write it down. I'm gonna get hung up on did you plan for it? Did you actually think through those instructional conditions that we're requiring? Yeah. And you have an actual plan. And you know what? We don't want to see this. One of the things that teachers do very wrong right now is too many teachers are too reliant on their resources. I'm gonna open this textbook and we're gonna teach it from page one to page last.
SPEAKER_00Is that really happening right now?
SPEAKER_01It is happening right now. You are seeing that happening in schools? Or other resources. I've been told we have to use this one digital program, and so every day we're going from module one to module. Module two to module three. Now, let me put this on the record. There are recent studies that show textbooks that we buy in states are somewhere in the range of about 40% aligned to the content and the rigor level of our standards in this country. Other resources fall in about that same category. So listen to what that means, leaders or teachers listening. If you open any resource and you teach it from front to back, you're at about less than half of the exact content and the exact rigor, meaning the thinking level that are required of kids. So when we're talking about instructional design course, this is why teachers need to have a vision of what instruction means. Because right now, when teachers think instruction, and again, I'm generalizing, they think instruction means I'm gonna open this resource that I have to use or that I like to use, and that's instruction. I'm gonna just use this and go through it. There's my instruction. And that's not what instruction is, right? Instruction is bringing to life the learning that must occur. Those resources are helpful.
SPEAKER_00And it's not even, as you're saying, fully aligned content.
SPEAKER_01Not fully aligned. It's good content. I'm not trying to get textbook um companies to come attack us. But the textbook companies are selling textbooks globally, folks. In case you didn't know that, these are large conglomerates. So they're building resources that are useful in many contexts. They don't serve 100% of your particular content that you're trying to teach in fill-in-the-blank state or fill-in-the-blank province, wherever you're listening to us today. So that's why it's important that we as leaders create this instructional vision because we need our teachers every day learning how to bring that content from all of these resources. Listen to me say this. Those are good resources. They help teachers. We don't want teachers making up their own resources, but teachers have to know how to bring that to life in a way that the learners will actually engage and take that content into their brains.
SPEAKER_00Yep. So true. So then let's move on from we've talked about creating an instructional vision. We've talked about making that transform into an actual kind of lesson plan process.
SPEAKER_01Not template.
SPEAKER_00Sure. And then so from there, let's get into monitoring and measuring the instructional program.
SPEAKER_01Well, maybe you can start us off because as part of your role as you supervise a large department in an ed tech firm that has a lot of teachers in it. I don't know the number, but it's a lot of them. Part of your role is to measure the effectiveness of instruction. And will you just kind of help clarify for the listeners? Because I know you've been on a journey where what you were measuring before was sort of outside of the control of the teacher, and you've really been pressing in your company about look, if you're measuring instruction, you've got to measure some really critical things that have nothing to do with but the teacher and their actions in the classroom. Maybe start us off right there, please. Give us that compare contrast.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we went on a journey this year that's been actually really fun. Like you said, we built a new kind of department that is the teacher effectiveness department. And in that work, we started off with defining with clarity our instructional vision. And we from there, we developed an instructional framework and we then tore apart every individual piece so that we have a rubric that defines what does good instruction look like that is live. What does there's another rubric that is about what does good feedback to students look like? Then we have another one that is about what does good communication look like with students. So now every single piece, I'm and there's others too, but now we have all these data points. I think we have 10 different data points, whereas we used to look at their basically their kind of their passing rate, their completion rate, things like that. So there were a lot of restrictions that we needed to collect data that were things that teachers really can control. Like, what does it look like when you are teaching a live lesson? And are you teaching according to the framework of instruction that we have set forward and have said is important? And then we have collected, we've been collecting those data points of teacher effectiveness. And it's not really to grade the teacher so much as it is to have conversations with them about their instructional practices. Our philosophy is not so much that monitoring and measuring the effectiveness of these practices is about assessment or it's about evaluation. It's really much more about the coaching aspect of it and being able to have informed conversations about the teacher's behavior and how it impacts a student's ability to learn and grow and develop in that classroom. And that's been very cool to see that it's not just here's what you got on your evaluation, but more of a let's talk about your engagement strategies. Let's talk about your communication practices and where you're falling on the rubric and what you can do to move into the next space.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know what I've come to learn as I travel the country is that some leaders either do not monitor instruction at all, or they monitor it in ways that just creates compliance instead of an improvement growth mindset. And I love that you just described that and what you've been doing in your company. Because here's here's a really easy way to do this part of our of our instructional program, which is simple. We're gonna just go out and build visible measures that connect directly back to our instructional vision. If we've said these are the components that go into an effective daily lesson, then we've got to build out some visible measures for that. And then we're gonna go collect information by watching the teacher perform and provide teachers feedback on where they are in these discrete pieces of the of this instructional vision. And here's what works for us when we've done this, and now I install this in schools across the country. This is a growth-based model and not a deficit-based model. See, the challenge with evaluation tools is it feels very deficit-based, right? Teachers really struggle to grow off of eval because it's all about, hey, once I score you, that's your score. But in this model you're describing, what we're doing is creating these structures and these processes to tell a teacher, look, in these two areas, God, you're so good. This is wonderful. Great job. In this one area, here's an area where you might be able to try something new or tweak. Uh, you know, your students are struggling with this one part. Here's a way to maybe just refine what you do and get a little better. So this is all about growth-based monitoring and coaching, as you said, but identifying via some very specific data points that are tied directly back to your vision. All the feedback we give to teachers is directed at the specific components of the vision. That's why you can't do any of this work, court, right? We can't do any of this if you don't have an instructional vision. Because listen, let's say I've picked five strategies for my campus. These are the most, these are the five best strategies we believe in. Okay, there's nothing wrong with those five strategies. I don't, I don't hate it. But what happens when one of those five strategies doesn't work for that teacher because that class just isn't gonna work with that strategy? Now what do you do? You don't have a vision, you just had a collection of strategies that's not gonna get you there. Right. But if you have a vision, then you can say, look, these are the five strategies we like to use the most inside of our vision. But hey, if one of those strategies doesn't work, you better come up with another way to help those kids. Or for you yourself, maybe it doesn't work for me. Not all teachers like to put kids in small groups all the time. Did you know that, Court? Did you know that you can engage kids at the same level without them being in small groups? Rows are just fine if they're used correctly. Were you aware of that? So many places I go around the country, right? So many leaders are like, get kids out of rows. And I'm like, I don't care if they're in rows, I care if they're engaged. Are they engaged in the right content at the right cognitive level? Maybe they're sitting in rows. See, we get hung up on the wrong thing. Oh, but the strategy says put them in groups. Now listen, I'm not against groups. I'm just saying, you see, leaders get hung up on a strategy when maybe that's not what that teacher needs with those kids at that moment. So again, when you create the measures that are more about creating the vision and its process as opposed to chasing a strategy, now we can help all teachers help all kids.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think what you're talking about then moves into when when we've collected that kind of data on our teachers, then we're able to start talking about how we're developing professional learning experiences. Yeah. Not just for, I mean, man, to have data that shows what your entire staff needs because you're now looking at like the average score in different areas and say, ooh, our school, our teachers are not great about engagement, or it's there, they are struggling with giving feedback during lessons, or oh, we're not really practicing and deepening very well or effectively. So I think, yes, you definitely can collect data so that now you're developing professional learning experiences for the whole staff. But then we've also talked a lot about being able to use it for coaching individual teachers in those conversations. And imagine if you had that data and you had a teacher struggling in one specific space and you could go, hey, you know who you should go see? Yes, go watch this teacher because they are freaking amazing at this particular.
SPEAKER_01As a matter of fact, I'll put a sub in there for you, or I'll sit in your room. Yeah. Well, you go over there just 30 minutes. You'll leave, you don't even need that much. You go see it and you'll be like, ah, got it. Yep. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And that's what we've been able to do is say, like, we know we have these teachers that are really good at X part of our framework because we have the data to prove it. Hey, would you mind leading a one-hour professional learning session for the teachers on this date? And let's let's talk through what that could look like. And usually, I mean, teachers love doing that. They love being a part of learning experiences for other adults. Some of them know, but for the most part, yeah, they want to share what they're doing. They want to, they want to share their great ideas and strategies.
SPEAKER_01And now, what you're able to do is you're able to not only identify what the teacher does well, but you're able to find for them in that in that vision, and here's a place you might be able to get just a little better, allowing our teachers to polish what they already do well. Maybe I'm a veteran and maybe I've been doing this a long time, and I've just gotten a little stagnant in one little part of this vision of this instructional process. And I can say, look, here's some ways you can polish it. I'm not saying you suck, I'm not saying you have a weakness. Sometimes teachers do suck and they do have a weakness, and we're gonna get our hands in there. But a lot of times teachers they don't value the feedback we give them because it's not about polishing, it's about compliance, or it's about, hey, you didn't use the program for enough minutes. So I love how you connected it to professional development because that's what this, that's what this is. All feedback to individual teachers, groups of teachers should be about where we can polish our practice? How do we continue to just take what we already do and strengthen it and make it a little better, a little different, and a little bit more um effective for our learners?
SPEAKER_00Constant refining, just constant refining.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and you know what, Courtney, I appreciate you describing the way that your company is taking your instructional vision. And basically that's becoming your professional development model. Absolutely. When it comes to professional learning for an instructor, all professional learning is going to be housed inside of this vision because this is exactly what we're asking teachers to get good at, all in the name of growing ourselves to be the best inside of this instructional vision as we can be individually and collectively.
SPEAKER_00Instructional improvement stalls when the leaders act like they alone can diagnose every issue that exists.
SPEAKER_01Oh man. Round of applause on that. Round of applause.
SPEAKER_00We have to bring teachers into this cycle and into this process and into creating a culture where teachers are reflecting, they're collaborating, they're using the framework themselves, and they're, you know, it, they're just as much of a part of it as the leaders are.
SPEAKER_01An effective instructional program does not end when PD session ends. Matter of fact, that's just the beginning. That's where we crafted the vision. And now it's like, here, now we got to give it to the instructors, and they've got to do that, reflecting and collaborating and supporting and giving each other feedback, right? And asking each other for ideas. Um, I couldn't agree more. And um, that is a thing that a lot of leaders either don't know how to do, maybe are intimidated to do it, or just flat out unwilling to do it. But to create an instructional program, you got to create the conditions and then you got to turn it over to the teachers, and then you got to just help them live inside of instructional improvement.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And if that makes you a little anxious, then you've got to kind of do a little bit of soul searching and ask yourself what is behind the mistrust of not wanting teachers to be a part of that analysis? What is it that I believe to be true that is holding me back from trusting them to be able to do that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you're right. Cause I think the goal is not for teachers to be watched more, the goal is for teachers to think more deeply about their own instruction and creating the environment that is more effective for learners.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I walkthroughs alone are not going to improve instruction, but reflection could.
SPEAKER_01You're absolutely right that it's really got to be about teacher self-efficacy more than administrative oversight and administrative mandates. Well, Court, so here's how I want to say it. For leaders, we're helping you envision how you create an instructional program. For those of you listening, I hope you're using this as like uh an audit. Some of you might be going, like, hey, we're doing some of that. Some of you might be going, like, gosh, that's perfect, because this is what I'm starting to think about as we move towards the end of this year and beginning to plan for next year. So I hope that this episode can stand as an audit for you on how you create an overarching instructional program. So here it is. This is what Courtney and I want to make sure you guys hear us say. If leaders want to create that full instructional program, here's the path. First, it starts with an instructional vision. Define what quality instruction looks and sounds like at the daily lesson level. Second, you got to create that common vocabulary. We got to build the language around it so that when we say certain words, we all know what those words mean. Third, now we got to train our teachers to understand those conditions of the vision. Just building a poster and putting it up on a wall, here's our vision of instruction. That does literally nothing. You got to train the vision into the teacher's processes of daily planning. Now we got to go monitor it, right? We got to create those easy-to-measure, visible systems that helps us show teachers here's where you are in these different parts of the vision and here's where you might polish or strengthen what you already do. Then it comes to coaching. We set up professional development, we set up collaborative opportunities, we set up asynchronous opportunities, any opportunities we can bring for teachers to not only self-select, but to be guided through growing through the instructional vision. And then finally, we said teachers have to reflect a reflection, an ownership on how they're doing and where they can get better when it comes to designing instructional pedagogy that creates the conditions that increase student learning.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, this is definitely how instruction stops being random and starts being systemic. And so an effective instructional program, it's not a poster, a program or a pile of strategies. We are talking about a clear vision, a shared language, a coaching process, and a real true cycle of improvement.
SPEAKER_01Awesome. Awesome. All in the name of increasing our students' engagement and connection with today's content, which we acknowledge is really, really difficult today. Kids are just flat, harder to educate in this moment than we've seen in a long time. Wow, what a great episode, Court. I feel like we dove into some really, really big things. And look, there's no way that you and I are not going to come back into this framework in future episodes and continue to dive into this. So absolutely. All right, everybody, we appreciate you taking the time to listen to this episode. Please follow us and be part of our larger community. We're on Instagram, we're on TikTok. Uh, we have our YouTube channel, and of course, at our website, you can engage with us uh in deeper content conversations at www.theedleadershippair.com. I am Matio.
SPEAKER_00I'm Courtney. Thanks for listening.